Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: hanzomon4 on June 09, 2007, 02:03:37 PM
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: hanzomon4 on June 09, 2007, 02:03:37 PM
In light of some recent current events I thought I'd watch a documentary I downloaded months ago, and never watched, that focuses on abuse in American prisons. The prisons featured in this piece have so much in common with programs. From being the top employer in the area all the way to the same justifications for the abusive treatment of inmates. It's a graphic documentary but one worth watching..
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 03:47:24 PM
People know full well of the torture and horrific conditions of America's prisons. They have dozens of television programs on every night on various channels that show these prisons in detail, it's not a matter of ignorance.
The had plain truth is Americans are a cruel and insensitive people. The irony of this is that they believe they are righteous and religious and wonderful. Americans want to see people hurt and in pain just as the Romans wanted to see the violence in their arena. Now Americans fight wars so they can watch CNN. They pass draconian laws against their own fellow citizens in order to watch them suffer, if only to gain a small ounce of comfort for themselves.
Do not think this is something being done to Americans by their government. They are their government. If they wanted change, they could change it the tools are at their disposal. They choose not to and make excuses for the reasons why they do not.
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: ZenAgent on June 09, 2007, 04:00:16 PM
As my wife noted, prisoners have considerably more rights to phone calls and visitation then her daughter did at Peninsula Village. My step daughter apparently signed a waiver of rights, or something to that effect.
My wife was talking about the PV troubles today, and I realize she was a victim of the clinical staff's abuse in a way I hadn't thought about. She was repeatedly lied to by the therapist and other clinicians, and denied contact with her daughter for six months. The main reason for PV attempting to alienate mother from daughter was my wife's quick-thinking in getting her camera out of the car and photographing the gang restraint of our girl. The clinicians gave my wife a set of "guidelines" she would have to follow in order to resume therapy sessions. She agreed to the conditions, and still they denied her requests to resume, stating they "couldn't be sure" she actually would follow the guidelines. Insane.
I was thinking about starting a separate forum for parents who fought to get their kids out of programs, successfully and unsuccessfully. I know too many parents who tried desperately, only to run out of financial means to continue.
An entirely different group of survivors, still victims of program abuse.
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: hanzomon4 on June 09, 2007, 04:40:20 PM
True, Guest and Zen...
It's just so hard to believe that people actually could know about this and condone it. This nation needs an enema.
Zen, I agree parents who fight are victimized. I remember reading a news story that showed how family members who had relatives tortured(Kosovo I think) had the same ptsd symptoms of the person who was actually tortured. Also, I'm not certain but I believe that what they had your daughter sign was bullshit and possibly illegal. *marks that down*
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Anonymous on June 09, 2007, 05:24:08 PM
Let's also not forget that the kids that are placed into these abusive programs and have less rights than prisoners.. did not commit a crime. They did not have a trial, they may have only started to how normal teenage behavior that an overzealous parent may not understand. Keep in mind no one should be abused .. even prisioners. However, I find it insane that prisioners have the right to call home, cable tv and can call home. These kids don't even get those priviledges.
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: ZenAgent on June 09, 2007, 06:05:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Let's also not forget that the kids that are placed into these abusive programs and have less rights than prisoners.. did not commit a crime. They did not have a trial, they may have only started to how normal teenage behavior that an overzealous parent may not understand. Keep in mind no one should be abused .. even prisioners. However, I find it insane that prisioners have the right to call home, cable tv and can call home. These kids don't even get those priviledges.
I wish I could remember where I read this, and the exact wording, but it seems like a Supreme Court Judge said something to the effect that constitutional rights are not acquired when a person reaches the age of majority, they are always present regardless of age. I need to see if I can find that, it was sage wisdom.
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Oz girl on June 09, 2007, 08:26:19 PM
I could not watch more than 20 minutes of this because it was sickening. I think that Zen while prisoners technically do have more rights than kids in programs, they are usually fairly marginalised people. There are not many adults anywhere in prison who have stable, financially secure families and wide networks of friends to speak on their behalf. Many people in jail are mentally ill as well. This makes such a population extremely vulnerable to abuse.
I think this gave an insight into the mentality that runs programs as well as these prisons. While it is true that these guys had been tried for something illegal to end up there as opposed to program kids who dont have any such due process the mentality is not disimilar. The people who do this feel they have right on their side. Even the local drunk tank is used as an instrument of torture.
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: ZenAgent on June 09, 2007, 09:23:20 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
I could not watch more than 20 minutes of this because it was sickening. I think that Zen while prisoners technically do have more rights than kids in programs, they are usually fairly marginalised people. There are not many adults anywhere in prison who have stable, financially secure families and wide networks of friends to speak on their behalf. Many people in jail are mentally ill as well. This makes such a population extremely vulnerable to abuse.
I think this gave an insight into the mentality that runs programs as well as these prisons. While it is true that these guys had been tried for something illegal to end up there as opposed to program kids who dont have any such due process the mentality is not disimilar. The people who do this feel they have right on their side. Even the local drunk tank is used as an instrument of torture.
Oz Girl, you're certainly right about the prison documentary being disturbing, I felt the same way watching "Tranquility Bay". It's interesting you should make the observation that the prisoners are marginalized individuals. My wife and I were doing Peninsula Village research on the metasearch engines and came across an ad where PV claims to accept "disturbed, marginalized, and drug-addicted youths". That description certainly doesn't match the admissions criteria listed on PV's website, it sounds like the description of a minimum-security prison.
PV states on their site that all new patients have to go through the initial lock-down phase, no exceptions. Why would a child sent to PV for being the victim of sexual abuse need the intense, scary experience of being in the lock down unit of STU? As I told my wife, some sexually abused kids spent a lot of time locked in rooms by their abusers, STU has to be hellish for them, and they react by screaming and acting out. Then the victims misery is compounded by being restrained by counselors with questionable training in TCI.
Treatment at PV is not individualized, despite the program's claims to the contrary. All of the kids I've spoken with say the entire group goes through the same "breaking down" process, regardless of the reason they are there. The clinicians and staff don't care why the kid is there, it doesn't change what their one size fits all approach. PV performs a service for parents, they have only one process they perform, and it's across the board. It doesn't matter whether a patient sodomized a call girl with a baseball bat or is suffering from an eating disorder, they'll be run through the same group therapy led by counselors lacking the education to lead productive therapy.
Your right about prisons being filled with the marginalized and mentally ill, but they've been convicted of crimes. While some of the kids at PV have been convicted of crimes, (some as adults), the majority of them have not. My step daughter has never been in trouble with the law, was an honor roll student, has no addiction to drugs, only two incidents of experimenting. She did commit what a professional friend called para-suicide, an attention getter. Her estranged father used this as an excuse to send her to PV.
Prisons, programs ...remember the Stanford experiment, where students put in charge of "prisoners" went from being easygoing to physically abusing their fellow students who were taking the prisoner roles. It ended when horrible abuses were occurring.
The very same thing happens in programs, in my opinion after a certain amount of time the "keepers" lose sight of the fact the prisoners/patients are human and view them as faceless cattle.
I'll PM you later about the work you told me you were doing, I have a couple of questions. Once again, hats off to you, you're doing a great thing.
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: hanzomon4 on June 10, 2007, 12:25:43 AM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
I could not watch more than 20 minutes of this because it was sickening. I think that Zen while prisoners technically do have more rights than kids in programs, they are usually fairly marginalised people. There are not many adults anywhere in prison who have stable, financially secure families and wide networks of friends to speak on their behalf. Many people in jail are mentally ill as well. This makes such a population extremely vulnerable to abuse.
I think this gave an insight into the mentality that runs programs as well as these prisons. While it is true that these guys had been tried for something illegal to end up there as opposed to program kids who dont have any such due process the mentality is not disimilar. The people who do this feel they have right on their side. Even the local drunk tank is used as an instrument of torture.
You hit it right on the head. I've had talks with my mom on why we mistreat some people in this nation and not others. We came to the conclusion that the label comes before the person. A teen in program is troubled not a human and a person in prison is a convict before being seen as a person.
It's easier to treat a person like an animal if you don't see them as a person to begin with. My ancestors, on both sides, were casualties of this mindset here in the "Land of the free". What we see in prisons and programs is simply an extension of the same thing.
I need to truly have faith in a God who sees value in every person, no matter what label is used to devalue them, to not see life here as one sick joke. It seems like the world gets worse each day I dig deeper into this horrible issue. Why do people treat each other like this?
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Oz girl on June 10, 2007, 12:50:30 AM
I think it happens slowly in incriments. It is why I became concerned about the Teen Fat Camp show they aired here. When I wrote to the minister for communications the reply was that Australia would never allow a TV network to send kids who did not want to go and that while tough all the kids say they were helped.
I wonder if in a yrs time we will follow NZ & the UK and send kids to a proper "Brat Camp" because they "need the help" and if it will then gradually snowball from there until windows of loss begin to be discussed when kids die.
I also wonder if an elected judiciary has a part to play in the apparent torture of US prisoners. In most Commonwealth countries the judiciary is appointed not elected. While this system is flawed in many ways it does have the advantage of the judiciary being above cheap political whims.
While State govts here have been bandying about the expression "get tough on crime" for yrs, judges often ignore them and more or less do their own thing. Most see that prison does not to much to reform an offender and are extremely reluctant to send a criminal to for the first time jail or to impose sentences which are too lenghty regardless of what the masses think.
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 10, 2007, 02:01:15 AM
Well, I realized after I got fucked over by the state of NC that you're either a victim, or powerful enough to not be victimized.
Blame my own particular pathology but I just started pumping iron when this video started and didn't stop. I'm tall enough and have a terribly deep voice but I'm still slim.
Though, the true measure of if I have rights and freedoms or not is my income. Hello chemical engineering.
At any rate, the fact that people either do not care about this or APPROVE of it, really makes me want to scream at them "America is DEAD, and you killed it".
:(
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Oz girl on June 10, 2007, 05:18:05 AM
I agree niles that money is power. Most people with an adequate income do not end up in deep legal trouble. (except a few white collar crims) As to the apathy most ppl are prolly not aware that it is as bad as all that or do not look too closely at the social factors that tend to put ppl in jail. To use an analogy when i first came across this industry i became aware of the horrors of WWASP. While i was told that it was not the one program but a systemic problem I was quetly sceptical. So i asked a lot of people a lot of questions. i read a few books both in favour and opposed to the industry. Eventually I came to the conclusion that the problem was with the industry and all children with in it were not treated farly. But with a lot of really depressing social issues it is tiring to look too deeply because you just dont want to know and it does your head in.
Title: CIVIL WAR II
Post by: Froderik on June 10, 2007, 11:34:08 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
At any rate, the fact that people either do not care about this or APPROVE of it, really makes me want to scream at them "America is DEAD, and you killed it".
Truly sickening.... Is it time for the next Civil War??
Title: Re: CIVIL WAR II
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 10, 2007, 01:06:17 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
At any rate, the fact that people either do not care about this or APPROVE of it, really makes me want to scream at them "America is DEAD, and you killed it".
Truly sickening.... Is it time for the next Civil War??
Most people approve, or don't care.
So yes if you want a few thousand, maybe a million at most to get squashed like a bug, die, and then be used as an excuse to make everything even WORSE.... go for it.
:roll:
Title: former secretary of state
Post by: Bunnie on June 10, 2007, 01:33:58 PM
on the news Colin Powell, expressed that the prison in cuba Guantanamo Bay should be shut down, this really amazes me that a prision like Paradise Cove, and other school, programs don't even make a bleep on the monitor. So it really amazes me that people are more worried about known enemies are treated, then Americas children. Parents worrying about their child going to jail, or prision, or ending up on the streets, all these things and more can happen to your child in a program you signed up for and paid many dollars. :flame:
Title: Re: former secretary of state
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 10, 2007, 01:45:53 PM
Quote from: ""Bunny""
on the news Colin Powell, expressed that the prison in cuba Guantanamo Bay should be shut down, this really amazes me that a prision like Paradise Cove, and other school, programs don't even make a bleep on the monitor. So it really amazes me that people are more worried about known enemies are treated, then Americas children. Parents worrying about their child going to jail, or prision, or ending up on the streets, all these things and more can happen to your child in a program you signed up for and paid many dollars. :flame:
I mentioned that and I got called all sorts of names for daring to put our own children before foreign adults :rofl:
Title: Re: CIVIL WAR II
Post by: Froderik on June 10, 2007, 04:18:52 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
At any rate, the fact that people either do not care about this or APPROVE of it, really makes me want to scream at them "America is DEAD, and you killed it".
Truly sickening.... Is it time for the next Civil War??
Most people approve, or don't care.
So yes if you want a few thousand, maybe a million at most to get squashed like a bug, die, and then be used as an excuse to make everything even WORSE.... go for it.
:roll:
I know it wouldn't be a picnic, but we would never have become a country in the first place with that attitude, Niles...
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Froderik on June 10, 2007, 04:27:09 PM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Quote from: ""Bunny""
on the news Colin Powell, expressed that the prison in cuba Guantanamo Bay should be shut down, this really amazes me that a prision like Paradise Cove, and other school, programs don't even make a bleep on the monitor. So it really amazes me that people are more worried about known enemies are treated, then Americas children. Parents worrying about their child going to jail, or prision, or ending up on the streets, all these things and more can happen to your child in a program you signed up for and paid many dollars. :flame:
I mentioned that and I got called all sorts of names for daring to put our own children before foreign adults :rofl:
:rofl: I think I remember this.. what forum/thread was that on..?
Title: Re: former secretary of state
Post by: Oz girl on June 10, 2007, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: ""Bunny""
on the news Colin Powell, expressed that the prison in cuba Guantanamo Bay should be shut down, this really amazes me that a prision like Paradise Cove, and other school, programs don't even make a bleep on the monitor. So it really amazes me that people are more worried about known enemies are treated, then Americas children. Parents worrying about their child going to jail, or prision, or ending up on the streets, all these things and more can happen to your child in a program you signed up for and paid many dollars. :flame:
I dont think the 2 are mutually exclusive. Guantanamo does not hold Known enemies at all. it holds suspected enemies for up to as long as 4 years without trial. In some cases if it can not find an exisiting legal charge it will invent one and charge the suspect after the fact. Look at cases like Muju Habibi and David Hicks. Google Michael Mori and see what a decorated US marine has to say about the place. I agree that there needs to be more emphasis on why TBS is wrong in principal but i see a connection. The idea is not dissimilar because unjustifiable behaviour is justified on the basis of "the good guys" doing what it takes. In the cvase of TBS it is to protect kids from themselves and in the case of Guantanamo it is to protect America from the bad guys
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 10, 2007, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Quote from: ""Bunny""
on the news Colin Powell, expressed that the prison in cuba Guantanamo Bay should be shut down, this really amazes me that a prision like Paradise Cove, and other school, programs don't even make a bleep on the monitor. So it really amazes me that people are more worried about known enemies are treated, then Americas children. Parents worrying about their child going to jail, or prision, or ending up on the streets, all these things and more can happen to your child in a program you signed up for and paid many dollars. :flame:
I mentioned that and I got called all sorts of names for daring to put our own children before foreign adults :rofl:
:rofl: I think I remember this.. what forum/thread was that on..?
The one where people think saving stray/feral pets and cute endangered creatures was equal to saving kids?
:roll:
Title: Re: former secretary of state
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2007, 10:13:57 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
I dont think the 2 are mutually exclusive.
Probably we'll all be meeting each other in some lockdown facility after they round us up.
Title: Re: CIVIL WAR II
Post by: ZenAgent on June 10, 2007, 11:57:34 PM
CRAZY TRIPLICATE POST!
Title: Re: CIVIL WAR II
Post by: ZenAgent on June 10, 2007, 11:57:58 PM
Repetitive and redundant, and I said it twice, too.
Title: Re: CIVIL WAR II
Post by: ZenAgent on June 10, 2007, 11:58:29 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Quote from: ""Froderik""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
At any rate, the fact that people either do not care about this or APPROVE of it, really makes me want to scream at them "America is DEAD, and you killed it".
Truly sickening.... Is it time for the next Civil War??
Most people approve, or don't care.
So yes if you want a few thousand, maybe a million at most to get squashed like a bug, die, and then be used as an excuse to make everything even WORSE.... go for it.
:roll:
I know it wouldn't be a picnic, but we would never have become a country in the first place with that attitude, Niles...
Froderik, you're absolutely correct. Niles, you're correct as well. What we need is a non-violent civil war, with civil disobedience, and pressure exerted on our elected officials. It doesn't matter how much money WWASP and the rest of their sick ilk ply politicians with if their constituents refuse to re-elect them for not listening to their concerns. The presidency was a corporate takeover, with Dick Cheney as CEO and Dubya Bush filling the role of dancing monkey, but Congress is a different game. There are people like Sen. George Miller, (D) CA, who have fought these programs for twenty years. He's aware the worst abuses are not confined to foreign facilities like Tranquility Bay, the same atrocities are occurring right here in our communities.
We need to change public perception of teen programs. If someone had asked me about Peninsula Village two years ago, I would have said "Oh, you mean the place where they send violent teenage sociopaths? It's a teen prison, isn't it?" Imagine the shock of finding out my honor roll student step daughter was being sent there by her estranged, deranged and cross-addicted father. Imagine finding out PV couldn't find a real reason to keep her and diagnosed her with those old standbys, ODD and Narcissism.
We can't enlighten everybody the same way, but films like Over the GW get the attention of people who might otherwise have remained oblivious to the problem. Maia Szalavitz's book did more to shed light on the subject than people give it credit for. John Gorenfeld's journalism is sharp and direct as well.
No, we don't need any kind of violent Civil War, but keep in mind the Founding Fathers would demand the ousting of the current corrupt administration if they could see Dubya's Republican corporation. The original architects of America were radicals who put their lives on the line, nothing like the gutless punks who run the country now. How would Thomas Jefferson react to seeing the huge influence Christian Fundamentalists have over the GOP? Dios mio, man, he would shit his pantaloons.
What I've seen recently is precision guerrilla warfare waged by survivors and parents against abusive programs and the people who supply the raw materials (our children) that keep the obscene profits flowing in.
We've done our best to educate parents, but it's also necessary to make kids aware of the hellish fate they could suffer, like being snatched out of their homes and falsely imprisoned with no way to obtain help from the outside. So many of these kids have never been in any legal trouble, some are sent away by a physically or sexually abusive parent who wants to avoid being discovered and arrested.
It would be great if we could get into schools and educate the kids about a danger they never hear about. It's a fucking tragedy. From my own experience, my step daughter "ran away" from home (she kept sending text messages to my phone while driving. telling me she was fine, and when she reached her boyfriend's apartment he called us before she had even parked, since we all knew where she was going). She came home, I thanked her boyfriend for taking care of her, and considered the matter closed, as did the cops. Our girl's biological father had been told of the incident, and we had her call him to let her know she was fine. Apparently, he was tanked and started hissing threats at her, the worst being his promise to have her sent to Juvenile Hall. My step daughter became filled with fear at the thought of Juvie Hall and attempted to overdose. When I was with her in the emergency room, she told me what her father had threatened her with, and she made the decision to die rather die than go to Juvie Hall.
The biological father is aware of the circumstances, and claims his daughter was lying. I found her suicide note when I went home to get some clothes and supplies for her. She had written to tell her mom and I how much she loved us and her friends. Her real father was no where to be found in the goodbyes.
Denial is the only friend and supporter that monster has. Days ago, he sent a nasty message to my step daughter on the pretense of "congratulating" her on graduation, but lacing it with insults about the "turmoil" she must be living in with us. The note also arrived a day after the anniversary of his legally questionable snatching of her. It scared our girl so badly that she asked to be driven to her grandparents' house for safety. She was terrified her bio-father was coming to get her.
I e-mailed him and asked him to refrain from the taunting and threatening in his missives, he was performing a kind of psychological terrorism on his own daughter. He reacted like a man crazed with jealousy and extreme bitterness, attacking me and saying I could "never fill his shoes", and I didn't understand anything since I don't have "blood-ties". I've spent more time with his daughter in five years than he has, she trusts me and we love each other. "Blood ties" are not a requirement for loving someone. I never intended to "fill his shoes", but considering he hadn't stepped into those shoes at all in over two years, I became my step daughter's friend and confidant, and we have a close relationship that means everything to me. I have no "blood" children, and I feel so fortunate to have my step daughter, because she's the child I would have prayed for.
Let's fight a clean, non-violent civil war using truth as our weapon of mass destruction.
Peace, comrades.
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Nihilanthic on June 11, 2007, 03:08:27 AM
TRIPLE COMBO
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: ZenAgent on June 11, 2007, 09:38:15 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
TRIPLE COMBO
No shit! As if that post wasn't long enough, my finger must have stuttered when I hit "submit"! Sorry...
Eh...maybe I shouldn't mention it, but speaking of posting in multiples, it seems our friend with the phobia concering the dreaded "C" word has disappeared...I have a theory about it, but I don't think this is the place to let loose with that speculation.
Let's all sing, shall we? To the tune of "Brandy" by Looking Glass:
"And the people said 'Izzy, you're a sick bitch, what an asshole you can be but you just keep on bloggin' like a schizo on speed
doo-doo-doo, doo, doo doo..."
Alright, enough of that. It's Monday morning and I've had two twenty ounce coffees, I'm a bit hyper
Title: Torture in American Prisons
Post by: Froderik on June 11, 2007, 10:07:56 AM
Quote from: ""ZenAgent""
Let's all sing, shall we? To the tune of "Brandy" by Looking Glass:
"And the people said 'Izzy, you're a sick bitch, what an asshole you can be but you just keep on bloggin' like a schizo on speed