Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 01:52:51 PM
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 01:52:51 PM
Do you think Straight would have been a "better" or less abusive place if they would have STRICTLY LIMITED their group to 25 or less? Maybe there would have been more professional oversight,professional staff ,less violence ,more individual care and better host home. Of course,they would have to have more than one building. Some way that the group would have been strictly limited to 25 or less.
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 17, 2007, 05:02:45 PM
Did you forget the entire premise was bullshit in the first place?
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: exhausted on May 17, 2007, 07:15:55 PM
I dunno Niles - this has got me thinking
maybe it would have been better, I mean these staff are dealing with lots of really angry teens (I'm not going to go down the path of them having every right to be angry and wouldn't you be angry, the fact is they are angry)
So if there were smaller groups, maybe the staff wouldnt have been so stressed out to deliver the perfect child back to the parents as promised and not do stuff like restraint, more one to one would surely be beneficial - i often wonder if the staff lose control of the situation and lash out like an out of control parent does, of course you are going to get the odd power crazy member of staff who'll do it anyway - it must be quite difficult dealing with kids in withdrawal etc
I think TSW might step in on this - I'm wondering what his take would be if he had dealt with a handful of kids rather than a school full, he seems to feel that he was under alot of stress and had to be on the defensive or at least aware that he would be targetted as a result of the teen being unable to direct their anger at their parents and/or situation TSW?
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Karass on May 17, 2007, 07:50:40 PM
What does the size of the group have to do with anything when the fundamental premise is bullshit?
My son's wilderness program had around 8 teens per group, with two field staffers ever-present and 4 out of 7 days/week they had a degreed psychologist or social worker with them in the field as well.
The numbers sound good when you're a prospective sucker getting the sales pitch, but the reality is that the whole premise is flawed. It wouldn't matter if the ratio was one-to-one.
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Ursus on May 17, 2007, 10:07:35 PM
Do you think the brainwashing would be any less if the numbers sounded more close and personal?
Seems to me it might even be the other way around. I.e., worse!
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 17, 2007, 10:25:03 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I dunno Niles - this has got me thinking
maybe it would have been better, I mean these staff are dealing with lots of really angry teens (I'm not going to go down the path of them having every right to be angry and wouldn't you be angry, the fact is they are angry)
So if there were smaller groups, maybe the staff wouldnt have been so stressed out to deliver the perfect child back to the parents as promised and not do stuff like restraint, more one to one would surely be beneficial - i often wonder if the staff lose control of the situation and lash out like an out of control parent does, of course you are going to get the odd power crazy member of staff who'll do it anyway - it must be quite difficult dealing with kids in withdrawal etc
I think TSW might step in on this - I'm wondering what his take would be if he had dealt with a handful of kids rather than a school full, he seems to feel that he was under alot of stress and had to be on the defensive or at least aware that he would be targetted as a result of the teen being unable to direct their anger at their parents and/or situation TSW?
Do you mean a institution with smaller numbers is less likely to be abusive intrinsically by virtue of its size?
If so, that might be true. Given that its not just a small-scale duck farm, that is...
Do you mean that a small group doing the exact same "program" duck farming fruity kool-aid culty abusive brainwashing bullshit as a bigger group would be better?
HELL NO.
As I've already said and a few others have reiterated, the basic premise of the cultish, isolation/disclosure/breakdown/"emotional growth" program is nonsense in the first place, or in vulgar terms, Bullshit.
Furthermore, no amount of actual care, therapy, or whatever, no matter how positive, can make up for the intrinsically abusive nature of a program based off of isolation, forced disclosure, psychological regression and nonsensical "emotional growth".
IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY. (http://http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/mc_psp_morbo.jpg)
A "good program" doesn't do ANYTHING bad, doesn't do ANYTHING unethical, only treats those who absolutely need treatment without consent and only those who have non-critical issues with their consent, and all not kept in isolation with their rights and freedoms protected, not used as bargaining chips to get their obedience.
Oh, and when I say treat, I mean actual therapy and treatment, not duck farm bullshit or quackery of any sort.
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: nimdA on May 17, 2007, 10:47:23 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I dunno Niles - this has got me thinking
maybe it would have been better, I mean these staff are dealing with lots of really angry teens (I'm not going to go down the path of them having every right to be angry and wouldn't you be angry, the fact is they are angry)
So if there were smaller groups, maybe the staff wouldnt have been so stressed out to deliver the perfect child back to the parents as promised and not do stuff like restraint, more one to one would surely be beneficial - i often wonder if the staff lose control of the situation and lash out like an out of control parent does, of course you are going to get the odd power crazy member of staff who'll do it anyway - it must be quite difficult dealing with kids in withdrawal etc
I think TSW might step in on this - I'm wondering what his take would be if he had dealt with a handful of kids rather than a school full, he seems to feel that he was under alot of stress and had to be on the defensive or at least aware that he would be targetted as a result of the teen being unable to direct their anger at their parents and/or situation TSW?
I've dealt with groups of 8 to groups over over 80 by myself. On one occasion at 3 springs I covered the entire boys campus for several hours alone. Some crisis broke out that required the attention of every single counselor for some reason or another. It wasn't hard to handle the main campus. For the most part they seemed content to behave and where sympathetic to my situation.
Enough establishing my credentials in this matter.
No matter what the premise that guides the program is the key to this issue. Straight to Three Springs and onto WWASP you all have the exact same premise. Break them down to build them up.
Most of my career was spent dealing with groups of 6 to 10 students. Let it be noted that the level of violence was actually higher in groups that were smaller. With smaller groups you certainly have more time to focus on individual residents. However, the premise of the program nullified any positive aspects that could have came from it. Most of the positive moments I had with the kids came when I stepped outside of the program mode and started taking on responsibilities that weren't in my job description.
* I taught some of my residents how to read properly. * I taught some of them how to write properly. * I taught those who it applied to how to write a resume and do a proper job interview. Interesting skill for a 13 year old, but they have to learn it sometime.
These are all tasks not assigned to me by the facility. However it was through these moments that my group seemed to thrive the most.
Until a program moves from its traditional aim of breaking them down to build them up to something more positive it really doesn't matter what size the group happens to be. By positive I mean focusing on each resident as an individual rather than attempting to use a one size fits all Stage System.
Respect for the individuality of the resident must be paramount. Also notice I'm not referring to these kids as patients, incarcerated youths, or whatever else they label them as. One thing I always taught my residents was never to buy into the Alphabet soup mumbo jumbo labels they've had assigned to them all their lives.
If I could do it all over again I would do the following:
1) Get drunk and get a job at Wendys.
2) If I don't do number 1 I would ensure that each child had an individual treatment plan. 3) Their weekly goals are based on that treatment plan. 4) Constantly find activities that are new and engaging to spark the minds of the young men in my care. Of all the things that happened at Three Springs this lack is the one thing that dissappoints me the most about my time. 5) Find ways to encourage the boys to educate themselves in accordance to their individual interests. 6) Accept that leadership is not a needed quality to graduate the program. Another failing point of all these programs is they insist on leadership, or the program's definition of it, from the resident prior to graduation. I would see to it that the behavioral goals on the treatment plan are simple, clear, and concise. Completion of those behavioral goals are what would be needed to return home in a timely manner.
Of course the big thing to remember is even with the above mode of treatment I still would have to say its all bullshit.
Why?
Care must be voluntary. We should never force it on anyone.
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Oz girl on May 17, 2007, 10:50:38 PM
The clip from that GW film showed a room with only a handful of kids. Still didnt look like any fun to me
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Anonymous on May 17, 2007, 10:57:44 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I dunno Niles - this has got me thinking
maybe it would have been better, I mean these staff are dealing with lots of really angry teens (I'm not going to go down the path of them having every right to be angry and wouldn't you be angry, the fact is they are angry)
So if there were smaller groups, maybe the staff wouldnt have been so stressed out to deliver the perfect child back to the parents as promised and not do stuff like restraint, more one to one would surely be beneficial - i often wonder if the staff lose control of the situation and lash out like an out of control parent does, of course you are going to get the odd power crazy member of staff who'll do it anyway - it must be quite difficult dealing with kids in withdrawal etc
I think TSW might step in on this - I'm wondering what his take would be if he had dealt with a handful of kids rather than a school full, he seems to feel that he was under alot of stress and had to be on the defensive or at least aware that he would be targetted as a result of the teen being unable to direct their anger at their parents and/or situation TSW?
Would you kindly pull your head out of your ass, exhausted? Thanks, I'd really appreciate it!
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Nihilanthic on May 17, 2007, 11:03:09 PM
Guys, guys, relax, she just had a blonde moment.
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: exhausted on May 19, 2007, 09:21:29 AM
No I didn't have a blonde moment, I was asking a 'what if '
I was only trying to get a view from someone who has been staff as to whether he thinks it might work, he has answered.
I wasn't making any suggestions being that I am not in that industry, I can't - lol you guys really love to attack, I can't say anything out of interest or see what might or might work out for the better wihtout attack
go fuck yourself.
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2007, 10:09:09 AM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
No I didn't have a blonde moment, I was asking a 'what if '
I was only trying to get a view from someone who has been staff as to whether he thinks it might work, he has answered.
I wasn't making any suggestions being that I am not in that industry, I can't - lol you guys really love to attack, I can't say anything out of interest or see what might or might work out for the better wihtout attack
go fuck yourself.
Again, maybe you should try pulling your head out of your ass for a change, it might help. You see, your whole supposition was severely retarded to begin with....
What the fuck are you even doing here?
Get lost!
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Ursus on May 19, 2007, 10:10:35 AM
Didn't mean to "attack you," Exhausted. Sorry if it came off that way. From the perspective of the receiving end, the brainwashing feels worse when you have fewer compatriots. There is less of an ability to "compare notes" and put the mindtrip in perspective. You are also more singled out, the brainwashing can be fine-tuned to be very personal!
Some programs accomplish the same end by disallowing kids from interacting with one another, or by establishing a serious "Brother's Keeper" mentality.
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2007, 10:15:41 AM
No offense, Ursus, but perhaps you should stay out of this? You didn't "attack" her at all; it was obviously Niles she was referring to there.
Exhausted, why don't you go put your nose back in Who's asscrack you thick-headed twit. Oh, that's right..that might be hard to do when it's firmly lodged up your own ASS. :rofl:
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: Anonymous on May 19, 2007, 12:14:59 PM
You REALLY still don't understand what a program does or how it does it if you'd ask such a ridiculous "what if", Exhausted.
Title: Straight with only 25 clients?
Post by: exhausted on May 19, 2007, 05:40:17 PM
No i dont Morbo, thats why I ask so many questions ... I've learned loads but still so much to learn.....
I didn't feel attacked by you Ursus, no worries, it realy was a general thinking out loud kind of post, which is why I wnated to ask TSW about it
Guest has a bee in his/her bonnet and is stalking me - I think theres a village missing an idiot there, I'll ignore whoever it is