Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: The Question on May 11, 2007, 01:04:54 PM
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There are three main types of wilderness programs. The first type of wilderness program is a boot-camp style of wilderness therapy, the second is a therapeutic style of wilderness therapy, and the third is a combination of the two. The problem is that there are no clearly defined lines for classification of what type of wilderness program a parent is sending their child to. I will be focusing on Boot-camp style of wilderness programs.
Boot-camp style wilderness programs are focused on the idea of compliance through force. The idea came from the Army and the judicial system, from where inmates would be “reformed” by an Army style boot-camp. The main benefit is that they change behaviors in a very short period of time. The downfall, however, is that the change is short-lived after the conditions of the environment are changed. For example, after the inmates have shown that they are “reformed” the structure is eliminated, and a majority fall back into old behaviors, which were the ones that got them into the boot-camp in the first place.
The Army has had success with these types of programs because of the longevity of the “treatment” because of the time spent in active service (ranging from two to twenty years), in which the structure has enough time to become ingrained into the mind of the individual.
The discrepancy comes from the fact that wilderness boot-camp style programs only last four weeks to six months. In my mind, this is not a viable solution for a variety of reasons.
First off, boot-camps expose the patients to extreme hardships. While this can be therapeutic, the manner in which it comes across, from personal experience, teaches the patients to manipulate and lie to get them out of the program. A common phrase emanating from these types of programs is “Fake it ‘till you make it.” The patient knows that the force and hardships will not be in the environment that they will be returning to, so in their mind, why try? Also, the child does not figure out why they act they way they do, just the consqunces of their actions.
Second, only a select few actually get recommended to go home after their stay at a wilderness program. There are countless accounts on the internet about the “therapeutic monster” that gets kids. The reason this happens is because the educational consultants, who usually recommend the wilderness program, and get a “kickback” for doing so, Also will get another “kickback” for recommending anther program. So even if the kid IS reformed, they go along with the line “just to be safe, your child should spend some time here to make sure he has changed.” Meanwhile, the Patient is now having to struggle with having no control over his/her life, and the abandonment issue of having his parents giving him/her up and throwing him/her to the wolves, so to speak.
So what is a parent to do.....I don’t have the answer for that. I know what they shouldn’t do, any program that just blames the kid, and not the parent is never going to help. If yu want your kid to hate you and always be paranoid about therapists and have trouble relating to his/her peers, just to get them out of your hair for a while, then, and only then, when you decide to ruin your kids life, or at least make it a living hell, and can live with that, then send your kids to one of these programs. Just don’t expect any forgiveness........
by the way, i have been to 3 widerness programs, The Grove School, Hidden Lake Academy, Grayon Manor....just for them to realize seven years later...i'm fine, but the drugs they put me on where making me crazy.......ironic isn't it
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Did you write that essay or was it something you found?
Exhausted
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Can you tell me a little about the Grove School? A co-worker has her kid there and what little I've been able to tell it seems not as bad as the others, but that's from researching the internet and who knows what goes on behind the scenes. My first reaction is that all TBS are similar, so there's got to be something bad going on there.
Enlighten me, please.
Thank you.
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first off....guest, i wrote the eassy....thing i had to do for a class....i changed the ending for the web site, but yea......
second, i went to grove school in 2002 to 2004, but that was before a kid killed himself there by jumping off the dining hall roof....from what i've heard, it got ALOT of flak from that with everyone and their uncle concerned about that, and it got alot more structred since then. That being said, they really don't do much, but that is a good thing, it is like a boarding school, but you 40 grand more a year.....tell your coworker that she should just either take her kid home....or if that is not an option, transfer to a boarding school and if NEEDED, have the kid go to a therapist off campus.....
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Boot Camp for the military is for a very clear-cut, universally understood purpose, and that is to make you a better killing machine for the government.
The purpose of Boot Camp or Wilderness Camp for teens is more nebulous, and generally carries connotations or outright intentions of punishment and the reforming of deficient character.
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No they turn you into a killing machine also there Ursus.
You kill your peer's negative behaviors with a volley of confrontations, forced excercise, and peer pressure.
You can kill a man in more ways than just ending his life. Killing his spirit is just as effective.
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No they turn you into a killing machine also there Ursus.
You kill your peer's negative behaviors with a volley of confrontations, forced excercise, and peer pressure.
You can kill a man in more ways than just ending his life. Killing his spirit is just as effective.
You have no argument from me there, TSW. I was speaking more from the perspective of the mind-fuck you undergo at the "Teen Wilderness Camps"... That is, there being less of a mind-fuck at the military (in comparison) 'cuz at least you know why you're there.
I don't have particularly much use for either one, personally...
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Trust me.. The mind fuckery in teen wilderness shit pits is worst. It has to be.
I hang out with alot of military men here in Korea. I've come to know them as free spirited individualists in their own way. They view their service as a job, but not something that they live, eat, breathe, and sleep.
Of course these are the older lifers that are going for retirement. However, the point still holds.
Further, the programming the military puts into a soldier, marine, or air man isn't brain washing. It is conditioning their responses for the purpose of survival. The end result isn't a mindless killing machine, but a fighting man who can react accordingly under great pressure.
For example:
Aircraft carrier night landings are so stressful that when a pilot was hooked up to a ekg machine during a carrier landing the heart specialist was certain the pilot was about to have a full blown heart attack. This was for a routine night landing on an aircraft carrier. When asked about what he was thinking during the landing the pilot responded, "I didn't think. I just did my job."
Now the same pilot may well be ordered to bomb a hospital or an orphanage. More than likely the pilot would refuse to carry out such an order.
Why?
Because military training isn't for the purpose of turning you into an unthinking robot. Military training is a set of instinctive responses for battlefield stresses. On the field of battle there is no time for the soldier to have a sit down and think session about the morality of what he is doing. He only has the time needed to react accordingly.
TBS wilderness shit pits are a different nest of snakes completely. They don't teach any survival skills, they use military style routine and order to batter your psyche into a well molded state of compliance. The end result isn't a better person, but a person better at following instructions. I'd say the opposite is true for the military as most of the young men and women who undergo boot camp and their advanced training come out as better people for the experience.
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Trust me.. The mind fuckery in teen wilderness shit pits is worst. It has to be.
I hang out with alot of military men here in Korea. I've come to know them as free spirited individualists in their own way. They view their service as a job, but not something that they live, eat, breathe, and sleep.
Of course these are the older lifers that are going for retirement. However, the point still holds.
Further, the programming the military puts into a soldier, marine, or air man isn't brain washing. It is conditioning their responses for the purpose of survival. The end result isn't a mindless killing machine, but a fighting man who can react accordingly under great pressure.
For example:
Aircraft carrier night landings are so stressful that when a pilot was hooked up to a ekg machine during a carrier landing the heart specialist was certain the pilot was about to have a full blown heart attack. This was for a routine night landing on an aircraft carrier. When asked about what he was thinking during the landing the pilot responded, "I didn't think. I just did my job."
Now the same pilot may well be ordered to bomb a hospital or an orphanage. More than likely the pilot would refuse to carry out such an order.
Why?
Because military training isn't for the purpose of turning you into an unthinking robot. Military training is a set of instinctive responses for battlefield stresses. On the field of battle there is no time for the soldier to have a sit down and think session about the morality of what he is doing. He only has the time needed to react accordingly.
TBS wilderness shit pits are a different nest of snakes completely. They don't teach any survival skills, they use military style routine and order to batter your psyche into a well molded state of compliance. The end result isn't a better person, but a person better at following instructions. I'd say the opposite is true for the military as most of the young men and women who undergo boot camp and their advanced training come out as better people for the experience.
You make my point most beautifully. I couldn't have said it better myself.
Sorry, I'm experiencing terrible net-connection problems tonight ever since a recent security update download. Get cut off after just a few sentences.
I did go through one of these Wilderness deals myself, back in my day. Although back then, it was shortly after Outward Bound arrived here and "the methods" were still in their infancy. Hence, less of a mind fuck than it is these days.
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i worked at Eckerd's Youth Alternatives for 2 years. I KNOWZ things.
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I agree....i have no experience with a "true" military program, but i do agree that Therapeutic wilderness is a bunch of shit....this is just from a experience from Second Nature, and Ridge Creek....
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Trust me.. The mind fuckery in teen wilderness shit pits is worst. It has to be.
I hang out with alot of military men here in Korea. I've come to know them as free spirited individualists in their own way. They view their service as a job, but not something that they live, eat, breathe, and sleep.
Of course these are the older lifers that are going for retirement. However, the point still holds.
Further, the programming the military puts into a soldier, marine, or air man isn't brain washing. It is conditioning their responses for the purpose of survival. The end result isn't a mindless killing machine, but a fighting man who can react accordingly under great pressure.
For example:
Aircraft carrier night landings are so stressful that when a pilot was hooked up to a ekg machine during a carrier landing the heart specialist was certain the pilot was about to have a full blown heart attack. This was for a routine night landing on an aircraft carrier. When asked about what he was thinking during the landing the pilot responded, "I didn't think. I just did my job."
Now the same pilot may well be ordered to bomb a hospital or an orphanage. More than likely the pilot would refuse to carry out such an order.
Why?
Because military training isn't for the purpose of turning you into an unthinking robot. Military training is a set of instinctive responses for battlefield stresses. On the field of battle there is no time for the soldier to have a sit down and think session about the morality of what he is doing. He only has the time needed to react accordingly.
TBS wilderness shit pits are a different nest of snakes completely. They don't teach any survival skills, they use military style routine and order to batter your psyche into a well molded state of compliance. The end result isn't a better person, but a person better at following instructions. I'd say the opposite is true for the military as most of the young men and women who undergo boot camp and their advanced training come out as better people for the experience.
The ONE good thing on TheStraights.Com
http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm (http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm)
I think you will find this very interesting.
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Trust me.. The mind fuckery in teen wilderness shit pits is worst. It has to be.
I hang out with alot of military men here in Korea. I've come to know them as free spirited individualists in their own way. They view their service as a job, but not something that they live, eat, breathe, and sleep.
Of course these are the older lifers that are going for retirement. However, the point still holds.
Further, the programming the military puts into a soldier, marine, or air man isn't brain washing. It is conditioning their responses for the purpose of survival. The end result isn't a mindless killing machine, but a fighting man who can react accordingly under great pressure.
For example:
Aircraft carrier night landings are so stressful that when a pilot was hooked up to a ekg machine during a carrier landing the heart specialist was certain the pilot was about to have a full blown heart attack. This was for a routine night landing on an aircraft carrier. When asked about what he was thinking during the landing the pilot responded, "I didn't think. I just did my job."
Now the same pilot may well be ordered to bomb a hospital or an orphanage. More than likely the pilot would refuse to carry out such an order.
Why?
Because military training isn't for the purpose of turning you into an unthinking robot. Military training is a set of instinctive responses for battlefield stresses. On the field of battle there is no time for the soldier to have a sit down and think session about the morality of what he is doing. He only has the time needed to react accordingly.
TBS wilderness shit pits are a different nest of snakes completely. They don't teach any survival skills, they use military style routine and order to batter your psyche into a well molded state of compliance. The end result isn't a better person, but a person better at following instructions. I'd say the opposite is true for the military as most of the young men and women who undergo boot camp and their advanced training come out as better people for the experience.
The ONE good thing on TheStraights.Com
http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm (http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm)
I think you will find this very interesting.
I forgot to add SCROLL DOWN the page.
-
Trust me.. The mind fuckery in teen wilderness shit pits is worst. It has to be.
I hang out with alot of military men here in Korea. I've come to know them as free spirited individualists in their own way. They view their service as a job, but not something that they live, eat, breathe, and sleep.
Of course these are the older lifers that are going for retirement. However, the point still holds.
Further, the programming the military puts into a soldier, marine, or air man isn't brain washing. It is conditioning their responses for the purpose of survival. The end result isn't a mindless killing machine, but a fighting man who can react accordingly under great pressure.
For example:
Aircraft carrier night landings are so stressful that when a pilot was hooked up to a ekg machine during a carrier landing the heart specialist was certain the pilot was about to have a full blown heart attack. This was for a routine night landing on an aircraft carrier. When asked about what he was thinking during the landing the pilot responded, "I didn't think. I just did my job."
Now the same pilot may well be ordered to bomb a hospital or an orphanage. More than likely the pilot would refuse to carry out such an order.
Why?
Because military training isn't for the purpose of turning you into an unthinking robot. Military training is a set of instinctive responses for battlefield stresses. On the field of battle there is no time for the soldier to have a sit down and think session about the morality of what he is doing. He only has the time needed to react accordingly.
TBS wilderness shit pits are a different nest of snakes completely. They don't teach any survival skills, they use military style routine and order to batter your psyche into a well molded state of compliance. The end result isn't a better person, but a person better at following instructions. I'd say the opposite is true for the military as most of the young men and women who undergo boot camp and their advanced training come out as better people for the experience.
The ONE good thing on TheStraights.Com
http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm (http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm)
I think you will find this very interesting.
I forgot to add SCROLL DOWN the page.
This one is better,because it was written by a professional,not a WHACKO like Wes Fager
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brain ... hing2.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing2.html)
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first off....guest, i wrote the eassy....thing i had to do for a class....i changed the ending for the web site, but yea......
second, i went to grove school in 2002 to 2004, but that was before a kid killed himself there by jumping off the dining hall roof....from what i've heard, it got ALOT of flak from that with everyone and their uncle concerned about that, and it got alot more structred since then. That being said, they really don't do much, but that is a good thing, it is like a boarding school, but you 40 grand more a year.....tell your coworker that she should just either take her kid home....or if that is not an option, transfer to a boarding school and if NEEDED, have the kid go to a therapist off campus.....
I also found this:
I just want you to take a look at the Grove School article.I think Grove School administration might be looking at this article.As a Grove School Student graduating in August 2006 from NYS,I can tell you that Grove School has lost its Emergency Placement entitlement from NYS.I can also tell you that it is true that a student did commit suicide named Brandon (I don't know how to spell his last name) in January 2005.If you get a chance to read the article,please consider putting an indication that their's Censorship going on.72.225.134.243 13:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Is this the suicide you were refering to?
Do you happen to have a link to any media accounts?
There is discussion re: Ridge Creek in the HLA forum if you'd like to share your experience there.
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Trust me.. The mind fuckery in teen wilderness shit pits is worst. It has to be.
I hang out with alot of military men here in Korea. I've come to know them as free spirited individualists in their own way. They view their service as a job, but not something that they live, eat, breathe, and sleep.
Of course these are the older lifers that are going for retirement. However, the point still holds.
Further, the programming the military puts into a soldier, marine, or air man isn't brain washing. It is conditioning their responses for the purpose of survival. The end result isn't a mindless killing machine, but a fighting man who can react accordingly under great pressure.
For example:
Aircraft carrier night landings are so stressful that when a pilot was hooked up to a ekg machine during a carrier landing the heart specialist was certain the pilot was about to have a full blown heart attack. This was for a routine night landing on an aircraft carrier. When asked about what he was thinking during the landing the pilot responded, "I didn't think. I just did my job."
Now the same pilot may well be ordered to bomb a hospital or an orphanage. More than likely the pilot would refuse to carry out such an order.
Why?
Because military training isn't for the purpose of turning you into an unthinking robot. Military training is a set of instinctive responses for battlefield stresses. On the field of battle there is no time for the soldier to have a sit down and think session about the morality of what he is doing. He only has the time needed to react accordingly.
TBS wilderness shit pits are a different nest of snakes completely. They don't teach any survival skills, they use military style routine and order to batter your psyche into a well molded state of compliance. The end result isn't a better person, but a person better at following instructions. I'd say the opposite is true for the military as most of the young men and women who undergo boot camp and their advanced training come out as better people for the experience.
The ONE good thing on TheStraights.Com
http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm (http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm)
I think you will find this very interesting.
I forgot to add SCROLL DOWN the page.
This one is better,because it was written by a professional,not a WHACKO like Wes Fager
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brain ... hing2.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing2.html)
:exclaim:
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well yes.....the kid was Brendon Oganawski ....i think that is how you spell his last name....he like to knit hats for money and he knitted himself an entire blanket.....because he was bored....cool kid and i do miss em, but yes, that is what i was referring to.
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Trust me.. The mind fuckery in teen wilderness shit pits is worst. It has to be.
I hang out with alot of military men here in Korea. I've come to know them as free spirited individualists in their own way. They view their service as a job, but not something that they live, eat, breathe, and sleep.
Of course these are the older lifers that are going for retirement. However, the point still holds.
Further, the programming the military puts into a soldier, marine, or air man isn't brain washing. It is conditioning their responses for the purpose of survival. The end result isn't a mindless killing machine, but a fighting man who can react accordingly under great pressure.
For example:
Aircraft carrier night landings are so stressful that when a pilot was hooked up to a ekg machine during a carrier landing the heart specialist was certain the pilot was about to have a full blown heart attack. This was for a routine night landing on an aircraft carrier. When asked about what he was thinking during the landing the pilot responded, "I didn't think. I just did my job."
Now the same pilot may well be ordered to bomb a hospital or an orphanage. More than likely the pilot would refuse to carry out such an order.
Why?
Because military training isn't for the purpose of turning you into an unthinking robot. Military training is a set of instinctive responses for battlefield stresses. On the field of battle there is no time for the soldier to have a sit down and think session about the morality of what he is doing. He only has the time needed to react accordingly.
TBS wilderness shit pits are a different nest of snakes completely. They don't teach any survival skills, they use military style routine and order to batter your psyche into a well molded state of compliance. The end result isn't a better person, but a person better at following instructions. I'd say the opposite is true for the military as most of the young men and women who undergo boot camp and their advanced training come out as better people for the experience.
The ONE good thing on TheStraights.Com
http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm (http://www.thestraights.com/marines.htm)
I think you will find this very interesting.
I forgot to add SCROLL DOWN the page.
This one is better,because it was written by a professional,not a WHACKO like Wes Fager
http://www.rickross.com/reference/brain ... hing2.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing2.html)
:exclaim:
:exclaim: