Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 30, 2007, 06:32:36 PM
-
Guidance would be appreciated. Our son's school year ends May 18 and new year doesn't start til Sept 3. He doesn't have a job and doesn't follow our structure. He knows that he needs a job and real structure but fights the concept. Now he's lying and returning to using pot and alcohol. He has been diagnosed with depression and listens to music that talks about suicide. He is a very dark kid.
He went through outpatient and inpatient already. We tried family therapy, even went vacationing together attempting and bond; failed. We really have tried everything. We don't have a cousin with a ranch, or even a friend with an out-of-state home. We don't have a secret bank account for any of these programs, either.
Our son will be 17 in 2 weeks, and I'm ready to let him know that he has to support himself fully if he doesn't comply. Any better suggestions?
-
Stop trying to force your world view onto your kid. Just tell him he needs to find something to do for the summer that doesn't involve him laying around the house. He is 17.. let him figure out how to spend his time.
Listening to Dark music? So what.. I did that for the entire 1980's. I came out sorta ok.
Not liking structure? Well I wouldn't get to worried about it. I know plenty of folks who exist just find outside of the boundries of society's so called structure.
Look.. it is ok to be nervous, but remember.. your kid isn't the BORG. He hasn't or doesn't need to be assimilated. Just let him figure it out on his own. That doesn't mean boot him out the door either. But on the same token it doesn't mean you have to support his idleness either. If he wants money he can earn it. If he wants clothes he can buy them. If he wants anymore food than what you serve for three meals a day he can buy it himself. If he wants liposuction that isn't covered by your insurance plan he can figure that out also.
My aunt had a pretty decent system for teenage boys who were slackers. It worked pretty well for me.
1) She would serve us 3 meals a day and that was bloody well it. If we wanted more to eat we went and bought it.
2) She would provide so much money for clothing.. and if we wanted anything more than that.. Well get a job.
3) Car? LOLS.. better start saving sport.
4) New gadgets.. What are they? Half the crap I had when I was young was salvaged.
Basically my aunt met our basic needs anything beyond that we provided for ourselves.
Which was pretty fair.
The other part here is you need to start letting your son know that he is your son no matter what. Just smile at the kid now and again and let him know how much you love him, and for gods sake praise the boy.
Even us macho rough tough country boys like me need to be praised now and again. Makes us feel somewhat useful.
-
Guidance would be appreciated. Our son's school year ends May 18 and new year doesn't start til Sept 3. He doesn't have a job and doesn't follow our structure. He knows that he needs a job and real structure but fights the concept. Now he's lying and returning to using pot and alcohol. He has been diagnosed with depression and listens to music that talks about suicide. He is a very dark kid.
He went through outpatient and inpatient already. We tried family therapy, even went vacationing together attempting and bond; failed. We really have tried everything. We don't have a cousin with a ranch, or even a friend with an out-of-state home. We don't have a secret bank account for any of these programs, either.
Our son will be 17 in 2 weeks, and I'm ready to let him know that he has to support himself fully if he doesn't comply. Any better suggestions?
Just MAYBE if you'd stop being so controlling he wouldn't be pissed off and rebellious? :roll:
Liek, HELLLLOOOOOOOOOO?
-
NILES go back to trolling 4chans! Bastid!
-
Listening to weird music, being dark, and not liking your parents is hardly abnormal!
From the way it sounds, they're unlikeable for someone in his position!
Its not broke, what is there to fix? Oh, wait, the unfixable - the PARENTS.
-
Its not broke, what is there to fix? Oh, wait, the unfixable - the PARENTS.
Just assuming for a second that this isn't a troll, insulting the people who have the ultimate power in this situation isn't going to convince anybody.
As for the pot smoking, and the alcohol, that's about as dangerous as watching ghost rider. Alright bad example, that movie sucked ass. But the point remains that trying to control your children is only going to lead to more division and resistance. At 17 most people are tired of waiting to become someone. So they don't.
Having a separate identity doesn't malign any intentions that you have upon them, unless it's to overpower who they are because you want them to be someone else. In the end, all you can really do is guide them; point out the consequences of their actions; and hope they make the best decision. If you believe whole-heartedly in your convictions, explaining them to others is the only true way to convince someone.
In short, work on your communication.
-
Listening to weird music, being dark, and not liking your parents is hardly abnormal!
From the way it sounds, they're unlikeable for someone in his position!
Its not broke, what is there to fix? Oh, wait, the unfixable - the PARENTS.
aint that the truth my dad is a giant PENISHEAD!
-
BTW...
Control and domination for the sake of control and domination over a teenager by thier parent is a bad idea, not a worthwhile goal, and worse than useless.
You should be teaching them to be self motivated, independant, and think and decide for themself. Controlling is hardly the best thing you can do, unless you want to make them REALLY rebellious so they zoom away from you when they can.
At any rate, I love how for many programs one of their GOALS is to make TEENAGERS obedient and "respectful of authority". WTF?
-
BTW...
Control and domination for the sake of control and domination over a teenager by thier parent is a bad idea, not a worthwhile goal, and worse than useless.
You should be teaching them to be self motivated, independant, and think and decide for themself. Controlling is hardly the best thing you can do, unless you want to make them REALLY rebellious so they zoom away from you when they can.
At any rate, I love how for many programs one of their GOALS is to make TEENAGERS obedient and "respectful of authority". WTF?
the thing i find funny, well not funny is how parents somehow OWN children like property or slaves until they reach some magical age then then can kick them to the curb with the trash if they see fit. no one is owned and as hard as it may be people just have to learn to let people grow and if necessary let them go, in the long run that's much less damaging then trying to mold them into whatever you, as a parent, want them to be. like a parent really knows what their child was born into those world to become. puleeeze, they are as clueless as the kid if not moreso.
k just agreeing with you in a round about way. figured it was time bunbuns agreed with you again. LOL
-
The ownership/adversarial attitude I see towards the children of some adults I see is sickening... :cry:
-
The ownership/adversarial attitude I see towards the children of some adults I see is sickening... :cry:
yep agreed... cuz you pop outta someone's womb you are property? where is this a law exactly! oh yeah in this country my bad! I forgot! or so they'd like us to believe.
-
I don't think nihil is a troll. I recognize the anger. I bet he is a victim. He has a point.
I would recommend remembering when that teenager was just a little guy. Remember the things HE liked to do. Just hang out with him sometime and get to know him. Let him find that trust in you again. He may be having symptoms remembering something that happend to him. He could be an outcast at school. Not having friends or support at any age.. can make you feel invaluable. He could be going through a sexual orientation struggle. Do something together without judgement or expectation. Accept who he is as a person, not what you wish him to be. That doesnt mean he gets to lay on your couch all summer. Ask to listen to the music in the car when your together. It may tell you a lot about what is going on. You would be suprised what he would tell you if you listened. Either way, you have your son now. If you send him to a program its a crap shoot. There is no way to tell what "programs" are good and which ones tell you they are positive and turn out to be abuse and punitive. Any program could have issues with sexual abuse from other students or staff .. that they could not prevent. Most of these programs seem to be cult like.. in their theory of how they "care" for the children. They will drain you and destroy your relationship with your son forever... if he he makes it back. You might try a local center that has sports or arts type of activities he could do through the summer that might get him movtivated on what direction he would like to go. He might just be confused and lost at what he is supposed to do now. When you get past some of the rough stuff. Offer bits of advise on small routines. Doing things 15 minutes at a time. It may take the pressure off how overwhelmed he probably feels with his future sneaking up on him.
Relax mama, its probably a phase. Go to therapy with him. Make small, significant steps toward building a relationship with him.
Wishing you the best of all circumstances...
-
I don't think nihil is a troll. I recognize the anger. I bet he is a victim. He has a point.
I would recommend remembering when that teenager was just a little guy. Remember the things HE liked to do. Just hang out with him sometime and get to know him. Let him find that trust in you again. He may be having symptoms remembering something that happend to him. He could be an outcast at school. Not having friends or support at any age.. can make you feel invaluable. He could be going through a sexual orientation struggle. Do something together without judgement or expectation. Accept who he is as a person, not what you wish him to be. That doesnt mean he gets to lay on your couch all summer. Ask to listen to the music in the car when your together. It may tell you a lot about what is going on. You would be suprised what he would tell you if you listened. Either way, you have your son now. If you send him to a program its a crap shoot. There is no way to tell what "programs" are good and which ones tell you they are positive and turn out to be abuse and punitive. Any program could have issues with sexual abuse from other students or staff .. that they could not prevent. Most of these programs seem to be cult like.. in their theory of how they "care" for the children. They will drain you and destroy your relationship with your son forever... if he he makes it back. You might try a local center that has sports or arts type of activities he could do through the summer that might get him movtivated on what direction he would like to go. He might just be confused and lost at what he is supposed to do now. When you get past some of the rough stuff. Offer bits of advise on small routines. Doing things 15 minutes at a time. It may take the pressure off how overwhelmed he probably feels with his future sneaking up on him.
Relax mama, its probably a phase. Go to therapy with him. Make small, significant steps toward building a relationship with him.
Wishing you the best of all circumstances...
I've been here since April 04 and I've done plenty... I ain't no troll.
I am tired of repeating the same shit to the same type of potential program parent and really wish they'd grow up already, but i guess I'm expecting too much from grown adults with teenage children. :roll:
The vast majority of the kids in programs are messed up in the first place from mild negiligence, a few from outright abuse, and the ones with real problems who were accidentally put in programs are either the result of an edcon hoodwinking somene well meaning, or a sad case of darwinism on the part of an idiot parent who somehow can make an insane amount of money but has the common sense and research abilities of a roundworm.
I'm sorry for my vitriol, but I really do expect more from everyone. Either I'm that smart, or they're that dumb, and I don't think Im THAT damn smart!
-
Keep talking and keep educating people. Your words may have diverted a second guessing parent out of the "market" for a program. Scream until someone listens you may save a life.
The problem is that parents with a teen .. who is just struggling with stucture and is smoking pot and drinking... well.. that should pretty much describe nearly every 17 year old in this country. In a few years he will be in college... beer bonging it.. and no one will think different of it. The situation sounds hard and worrisome.. but, a program should not be even considered at this stage. If he were holding up liquor stores or harming someone.. that is different. He is only harming himself. Why slap him in a program for a do or die situation.
Keep talking ..nih .. it is appreciated.
-
I made http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens (http://www.askquestions.org/articles/teens), I've talked to parents with kids in programs to help get them out...
... my actions have by now steered many people away from programs and helped at least a handful directly get out that were already in them.
But, alas, its a drop in an ocean.
The PROBLEM is the average white american parent, and the symptom is messed up kids!
-
wow! impressive work. Thank you! I will share.
-
I don't think nihil is a troll. I recognize the anger. I bet he is a victim. He has a point.
I would recommend remembering when that teenager was just a little guy. Remember the things HE liked to do. Just hang out with him sometime and get to know him. Let him find that trust in you again. He may be having symptoms remembering something that happend to him. He could be an outcast at school. Not having friends or support at any age.. can make you feel invaluable. He could be going through a sexual orientation struggle. Do something together without judgement or expectation. Accept who he is as a person, not what you wish him to be. That doesnt mean he gets to lay on your couch all summer. Ask to listen to the music in the car when your together. It may tell you a lot about what is going on. You would be suprised what he would tell you if you listened. Either way, you have your son now. If you send him to a program its a crap shoot. There is no way to tell what "programs" are good and which ones tell you they are positive and turn out to be abuse and punitive. Any program could have issues with sexual abuse from other students or staff .. that they could not prevent. Most of these programs seem to be cult like.. in their theory of how they "care" for the children. They will drain you and destroy your relationship with your son forever... if he he makes it back. You might try a local center that has sports or arts type of activities he could do through the summer that might get him movtivated on what direction he would like to go. He might just be confused and lost at what he is supposed to do now. When you get past some of the rough stuff. Offer bits of advise on small routines. Doing things 15 minutes at a time. It may take the pressure off how overwhelmed he probably feels with his future sneaking up on him.
Relax mama, its probably a phase. Go to therapy with him. Make small, significant steps toward building a relationship with him.
Wishing you the best of all circumstances...
nihl is HARDLY a troll and i wouldn't say a victim although i know he has friends who are and has made friends who are and is just a damn compassionate person who actually gives a fuck. god forbid. Although im pretty sure he's a victim of having at least ONE fucked parent, as most of us seem to be.
and he can be disagree'd with by the likes of ME when i have a bad day and realize, well, i was having a bad day.
i think for the most part he's very positive, but i think it's also very easy to take things personally and to heart on a board like this given the subject matter. we've all done it, hell i did just the other day, didn't i nihl? lol
Definitely not a troll, a good good guy he is. just my 2 cents.
Over and out!
~e to the b~
-
The situation sounds hard and worrisome.. but, a program should not be even considered at this stage. If he were holding up liquor stores or harming someone.. that is different.
Very dangerous thinking there. You're basically saying a program might be the right thing if he were committing robbery or hurting people, but that a program is a bad idea when he's only smoking pot and drinking.
Potential program parents need to understand that these privately owned "reform schools" or prisons or whatever we want to call them do not offer evidence-based therapy or treatment. It's not a question of whether a kid is "bad" enough to benefit from a program.
-
Hi NervousMama~
Try to read around some of the rhetoric above ...there is some good advise.
TSW suggestions are VERY good. No work. No extras. Period. Lack is a pretty good motivator.
How about a volunteer job doing something he has passion about?
Most kids dabble in substances. I did. You probably did. How about inviting your son to share a beer with you on Saturday night while you sit on the deck and grill dinner? I found that enjoying alcohol with my kids, in a reasonable manner removed some of the taboo. I have been able to have conversations about drinking/reckless drinking etc. Whereas I grew up in a dry home where alcohol was the 'devils drink' and very taboo.
Dark music. My daughter's music scared me. But, when I took the time to listen (to the music) and to hear her reasons for listening it made alot of sense. It gives expression to what they are feeling. It articulates things that they are having trouble articulating. My daughter used to fill notebooks with song lyrics ... really dark lyrics. For her it was therapeutic. Bear in mind also, this may just be a season in his life.
Teenage angst in not pathology. I wish I would have understood that concept better.
-
I agree, there's some excellent advise here, although my lot would just raid the kitchen (hey don't even go there with the locks, been there done that)
All in all, I think everyones right, je's a 17 year old kid, a boy in a man's body who is confused as hell
Ask yourself something (I know I do this all the time) do you find yourself saying stuff like
"Grow up you're nearly an adult - 18 years old and you are an adult!"
then 10 minutes later
"All the time you are a minor living under my roof, you will abide by my rules"
It's confusing, try to see it through his eyes, we've all been that teen, we hated it and so do they
Good luck!
-
The situation sounds hard and worrisome.. but, a program should not be even considered at this stage. If he were holding up liquor stores or harming someone.. that is different.
Very dangerous thinking there. You're basically saying a program might be the right thing if he were committing robbery or hurting people, but that a program is a bad idea when he's only smoking pot and drinking.
Potential program parents need to understand that these privately owned "reform schools" or prisons or whatever we want to call them do not offer evidence-based therapy or treatment. It's not a question of whether a kid is "bad" enough to benefit from a program.
Please don't read to much into that statement. I was simpling saying is that the boy is doing is not doing anything that is alarming really. He is harming himself in self destructive manner. That he is not at any stage that a parent should even "consider" a program. If any person is hurting someone else.. teenager, parent whowever .. at some point they may need some outside help and I can see where people may seek advise. These programs sell themselves as actually curing these issues. I can see where a parent might 'inquire' about it. If you read my other posts you will see that I am completey opposed to sending a child to any type of camp or boarding school. I was just saying he isnt doing anything outside of what a typical teenager does. There is no cause for alarm.
C'mon now, having a beer with your kid on the patio? wtf? Children need to know boundries and believe it or not like to know when they have hit them. I don't think it is ever ok to let your children break the law. It tells them its ok. Would you do a line or roll a joint? :-?
-
Drugs are illegal. I don't do illegal drugs, so now I wouldn't roll a blunt and smoke it with them.
I guess I feel it's my parental prerogative to allow them to have a glass of wine with dinner (when they were 18). Or a beer on my patio. Turn me in to Child Protective Services.
OMG ... my Father In Law smoked stogies with them at deer camp and while fishing or on the golf course.
And they don't have a curfew anymore.
At 18 years old, kids are responsible for determining what their healthy boundaries are. Imposing boundaries on adult children is a bit controlling IMHO.
-
Gosh ya'll.... Thanks for the timely and thoughtful responses. I will make time after supper to sit down with my son-if he's willing- and read these stories together.
I should tell ya'lls tho. I think he might be drunk again tonight.
*long sigh*
:cry:
-
Is it illegal to have a drink in your own home under parental supervision?
I grew up in a house where it was OK for anyone who wanted it to have a wine with dinner or a beer while cooking. I therefore get that it does not stop the binge drinking phase. But what it does do is model responsible consumption and set an example.
Nothing about this boys behaviour sounds alarming at all.
-
Is it illegal to have a drink in your own home under parental supervision?
I grew up in a house where it was OK for anyone who wanted it to have a wine with dinner or a beer while cooking. I therefore get that it does not stop the binge drinking phase. But what it does do is model responsible consumption and set an example.
Nothing about this boys behaviour sounds alarming at all.
The USA is fucked up, what can I say?
-
Gosh ya'll.... Thanks for the timely and thoughtful responses. I will make time after supper to sit down with my son-if he's willing- and read these stories together.
I should tell ya'lls tho. I think he might be drunk again tonight.
*long sigh*
:cry:
It's difficult when they're too drunk to get any sort of reasoning going
try when he's sober to ask him to sit with you for a minute or two, like someone else said, you got to do this in small chunks or he'll think you're nagging - just let him read a couple of posts at a time and discuss until he's bored, then let it go perhaps saying ' ok maybe later when you're ready' give him a smile so he sees those few moments as a positive thing ... the more he sees this is in you, the more he'll want to sit & discuss it al with you, he will come back eventually if you can stay strong, calm and smiley towards him, who wants to be round a nag? No teen i know...but a smiley mum who grits her teeth and says 'ok, have a good time, dont get too mashed ok cos I care about you' is a much better option - it's not you condoning the drinking, he's going to do that anyway, its all about slowly bringing them back to you and the rest will follow
-
You know your son should abide by the rules of your home. That goes without question.
But ask yourself:
Are the rules logical? Do they make any sense?
Or
Are the rules such that they allow a 17 year old young adult a certain amount of lee way to go forth and learn how to be an adult?
Lots of times the rules we have are hold over rules. They are left over from years ago with no real need for them. Particularly when your son is 17.
Ask him what a good curfew is, and then compromise on it.
Ask him what house hold responsibilities he thinks are fair, then compromise on it.
Don't automatically give him what he wants, but compromise with him. For one it means you are communicating with him, and secondly you are teaching him how to reach compromises with people around him.
A pretty useful skill for all of us to learn.
Remember.. in the end you just want your kid to be safe, and happy. So the rules shouldn't be a cross you must bear to get him to comply to. Instead they should be away of you two bridging the gap between you with communication and compromise. If he screws up don't have an abritrary consquence. Tell him to figure out how to make it right, and you will be surprised of the results. Be flexible with them and account for his age.
Treat him like a young adult making his way into the world, and give him opprotunities to screw up. Then guide him through the process of finding ways to fix those screw ups. Be positive about it as these learning processes are all to often put on hold and crushed by the heavy hand of parenting.
Aight.. no more.. off I go.. Good luck with you..
-
You've made a really good point about setting boundaries in order to be prepared to compromise
When i was setting the whole coming indoors time thing, my son was insisting on 10.00, so i took one step ahead of him and said 9.30 ... I disn't think 10 was too bad a time , but I wanted him to take some responsibility for setting his own reasonable curfew, anyway, we bartered back & forth, so I said "well, why don't we give each other 15 minutes?" We set it to 9.45 ... which is great, I felt like I'd managed to teach him a good skill, he felt like he got a result/one over on me, he's well happy he's managed to twist me round to his way of thinking :wink: good luck to him, let him think it
-
Uh, if you also thought 10pm was fine, you should have said "OK" not "Im going to impose and make you give me some time".
Theres no need to comprimise unless the whole point is to teach the kid to haggle.
Expect him to say 1 am soon :wink:
-
The whole idea of the exercis Niles, was to teach him responsibility for his 'in' time - I was ready for him to kick up a big fight and eventually say ok to the 10 O'clock, but he didn't, alls well on both sides. :D
-
I just read the forum and wanted to put my opinion out there in case any one cares one way or the other. When I was 17 my mom sent me 3 states away to a long term treatment facility. I drank maybe 3 times smoked pot less than that and I had never had sex. I had been seeing an adolescent therapist for quite awhile (simply because I had a single mom and she thought I was way out of control) and this therapist recommended this facility to lead me on the straight and narrow so to speak. Well, 22 months later I graduated my program and was a free bird. Needless to say, my curiosity and repressed emotions that I had to deal with while in treatment, resulted in a drug list that was quite longer than pre-treatment and I became somewhat of a "slut" sleeping around quite a bit. For years I resented my mom for sending me away to a place that I to this day agree I did not need to be in. I now have a 7 year old a 20 month old and the thought of them "experimenting" in any kind of way terrrifies me. I have read a lot of post with responses about being a controlling parent and this is normal 17 year old behavior. I can agree on some level because of my own experience but I cant say I wouldn't be a freaking out if it were my kids. I think we need to lay off with the controlling parent criticism and try to be more supportive. I have no magic answers for you I can just empathize with your concerns and only hope that things turn out better for your son and your family.
-
Oh, get real, TSW! Now and again? Please!
I've just started reading this thread. I note that it's grown like Kudzu, which usually means a flame war. Everybody loves a brawl though, don't we chillins?
Seriously, though, to the original poster, I agree with TSW. Matter of fact, I've been talking along this same theme w/ a couple of friends of mine just lately. Seems that none of us have ever been able or willing to live a conventional life. Don't know how much of that is reactionary and how much is causual or if it even has anything to do w/ the Program at all. But, however we came to this point, we're all mid 30's to 40's with "no visible means of support" or at least no simple answer to the question "so, what do you do for a living?"
And even now, that still makes some people very nervous and suspicious. Me? I must be a madam cause I live in Charleroi, right? My other friend, obvious dope dealer, right? Those are the assumptions. The reality is a whole lot less colorful.
I'd suggest you turn him onto Craig's List. I've found so many interesting gigs and people there. It's a bit more risky than your conventional vocations and avocations, of course. But then again, taking the conventional course guarantees, not only risks, doom to stifling mundacity and hopelessness.
Or, if you'd rather hear it from an accomplished statesman and celebrated hero....
"Find out what they want to do and advise them to do it." -- Winston Churchill when asked how to give advice to grown children.
-
I can agree on some level because of my own experience but I cant say I wouldn't be a freaking out if it were my kids. I think we need to lay off with the controlling parent criticism and try to be more supportive. I have no magic answers for you I can just empathize with your concerns and only hope that things turn out better for your son and your family.
Yeah, I hear ya. Overly worried, overly controlling parents are the major part of the problem, at least wrt the private sector American gulag archipelago. But it's not because they're all mean spirited child abusers. My anger toward them is, finally, all blown out. Took awhile. I had an impressive store of it.
They're really, really scared of all the terrifying hobgoblins hiding under their kids' bed. From an early age, everywhere you look you get fed a little dose of toughlove hate group propaganda. It doesn't matter whether you look to the very conservative "sex might lead to dancing" crowd or the extremely liberal do-gooders who want to drug the population to make us all conform more closely to what their ivy league gurus have decided is "normal" this year.
I always take these kinds of stories with a grain of salt, too. I'm not so sure your son is making bad choices or headed for trouble. Take a kid like Brian Werner, for example. Weird kid! Grew up to be Marilyn Manson. Whether you appreciate his work or not, you can't really call him a failure, can you? If he were your son, would you want to see him give up on his eccentric dreams and aspirations, put on a monkey suite and eat lots of Prozac to make it tolerable? I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
-
Oh, get real, TSW! Now and again? Please!
I've just started reading this thread. I note that it's grown like Kudzu, which usually means a flame war. Everybody loves a brawl though, don't we chillins?
Seriously, though, to the original poster, I agree with TSW. Matter of fact, I've been talking along this same theme w/ a couple of friends of mine just lately. Seems that none of us have ever been able or willing to live a conventional life. Don't know how much of that is reactionary and how much is causual or if it even has anything to do w/ the Program at all. But, however we came to this point, we're all mid 30's to 40's with "no visible means of support" or at least no simple answer to the question "so, what do you do for a living?"
And even now, that still makes some people very nervous and suspicious. Me? I must be a madam cause I live in Charleroi, right? My other friend, obvious dope dealer, right? Those are the assumptions. The reality is a whole lot less colorful.
I'd suggest you turn him onto Craig's List. I've found so many interesting gigs and people there. It's a bit more risky than your conventional vocations and avocations, of course. But then again, taking the conventional course guarantees, not only risks, doom to stifling mundacity and hopelessness.
Or, if you'd rather hear it from an accomplished statesman and celebrated hero....
"Find out what they want to do and advise them to do it." -- Winston Churchill when asked how to give advice to grown children.
wut I say?
-
WHAT IS YOUR AGENDA?
-
Even us macho rough tough country boys like me need to be praised now and again. Makes us feel somewhat useful.
-
UNDERSTATEMENT!
-
Oh, get real, TSW! Now and again? Please!
I've just started reading this thread. I note that it's grown like Kudzu, which usually means a flame war. Everybody loves a brawl though, don't we chillins?
Seriously, though, to the original poster, I agree with TSW. Matter of fact, I've been talking along this same theme w/ a couple of friends of mine just lately. Seems that none of us have ever been able or willing to live a conventional life. Don't know how much of that is reactionary and how much is causual or if it even has anything to do w/ the Program at all. But, however we came to this point, we're all mid 30's to 40's with "no visible means of support" or at least no simple answer to the question "so, what do you do for a living?"
And even now, that still makes some people very nervous and suspicious. Me? I must be a madam cause I live in Charleroi, right? My other friend, obvious dope dealer, right? Those are the assumptions. The reality is a whole lot less colorful.
I'd suggest you turn him onto Craig's List. I've found so many interesting gigs and people there. It's a bit more risky than your conventional vocations and avocations, of course. But then again, taking the conventional course guarantees, not only risks, doom to stifling mundacity and hopelessness.
Or, if you'd rather hear it from an accomplished statesman and celebrated hero....
"Find out what they want to do and advise them to do it." -- Winston Churchill when asked how to give advice to grown children.
I think part of the problem may be that in western society a conversation starter is always what do you do for a living? it is a way of pigeon holing ppl. A better way of asking this question is how do you fill your days? This way you find out what peoples interests are cause it opens up the conversation more.