Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Nihilanthic on April 27, 2007, 06:46:06 PM
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I'm sorry but people who care more about people in far flung places in a feel-good-about-myself-for-doing-it way, or people who care more about... furry little cute animals than human beings and children really piss me off.
Lets see..
PETA can go fuck itself. Seriously. They'd probably care more about a starving dog than the starving family that can't feed it. They'd care more about little puppies being abused than little kids.
They spam videos of chinese farmworkers skinning dogs and racoons and go raid labs that fuck with monkeys, but they won't put up videos of our kids being tortured or go raid a program that fucks with kids.
Seriously, I think its about time we had some HUMANIST activists out there, but unfortunately, the only people who CLAIM to care about kids and families are politicians using it as a party line... and basically only that. Its not like a politician can legislate anything to make it better for a kid for a family - though they could improve our stability both as far as economy and security goes... but they wont, becuase without a crisis they can't do the shit they always do.
ARGH.
So yeah, fuck you people who care about Africans but not our own citizens, fuck you people who care more about animals than kids, and fuck you do-nothings who don't even care about anything at all.
:x
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Many of these twisted fucks who abuse kids start with abusing animals when they are younger. Catch em early i say. i think peta is extreme myself but not everyone can fight every fight nor is everyone aware of every fight that needs to be fought.. I'd rather save my anger for those who deserve it. When it comes down to it, why are we, humans, any more deserving of an "abuse free life" then any other creature on this planet? because we can use logic and reason and state it must be so?
right.
my one gripe is children should not have LESS rights then say a dog. Yet in some cases they in fact do. That's what we should really be mad at and congress isn't doing a fucking thing about it either.
Fight hate with hate and negativity targeted at someone other then the enemy! That will bring it to a pleasant end i'm so sure. *sarCASM*
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Many of these twisted fucks who abuse kids start with abusing animals when they are younger. Catch em early i say. i think peta is extreme myself but not everyone can fight every fight nor is everyone aware of every fight that needs to be fought.. I'd rather save my anger for those who deserve it. When it comes down to it, why are we, humans, any more deserving of an "abuse free life" then any other creature on this planet? because we can use logic and reason and state it must be so?
right.
my one gripe is children should not have LESS rights then say a dog. Yet in some cases they in fact do. That's what we should really be mad at and congress isn't doing a fucking thing about it either.
Fight hate with hate and negativity targeted at someone other then the enemy! That will bring it to a pleasant end i'm so sure. *sarCASM*
Its not a matter of if we deserve more than an animal or not, its that we should protect our own kind, our own countrymen, our own children, before we do anything about a damned animal. Yeah, a human being does deserve more than an animal! Why NOT be humanistic about it?
But the thing is... are animals going to save us? Who is going to save us from ourselves... other humans. Animals are out living their darwinistic birth>reproduce>death cycle generation by generation, and frankly, as the only sentient, sapient beings on earth (as far as we know anyway) we do matter a little more.
Am I saying you should make something capable of suffering suffer? No. I am saying that a starving or tortured person comes before a starving or tortured animal.
My biggest gripe is the fucking "animal cops" on animal planet that fucking go into people's houses to check on PETS, but they can't go into PROGRAMS to check on PEOPLE. ARGH.
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So yeah, fuck you people who care about Africans but not our own citizens, fuck you people who care more about animals than kids, and fuck you do-nothings who don't even care about anything at all.
:x
What an ignorant, immature perspective you have on the world. Thank god there are people in OTHER COUNTRIES helping us fight this fight here in this country and other countries since that's where all the rehabs seem to be moving. Or did you think we were doing this all on our own?
Get your head out of your ass. What the fuck does it have to do with being citizens? Do you know how many emails and letters i've gotten from people outside of our country that actually want to help this cause? God damn i would be ashamed for them to read some elitist bullshit like that. FUCK YOU PEOPLE who aren't humanitarians, who only want to save the abused kids in AMERICA. I can see the comparison to animals maybe, but children are children and I'll be damned if someone is going to judge me for wanting to help out globally. FUCK YOU!
Take a step back and realize this is a global problem and certainly spouting off your kind of bull shit is really going to HELP the children. Give me a fucking break. They are moving rehabs out of our country to places like FIJI, we can't do shit without the assistance of other countries now. But really if i take YOUR view why should we once it's off US soil. OR what if half the kids in the school were sent from england, should we ONLY FOCUS on saving the AMERICANS? Are you smoking crack? Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. It's a sick place, whine about PETA all you want, what a fucking waste of energy.
So yeah FUCK ME for giving a FUCK! HELL YEAH! I'm proud to be an INTERNATIONAL Children's Rights Activist fuck anyone who thinks because you were born in this country somehow that makes you bleed some other color then the rest of the world.
(Baby) Jesus Christ! What the fuck is wrong with people? You're almost as bad as PETA, hell worse. Don't you realize how HYPOCRITICAL you sound?
Here's my impression of YOU:
"Fuck the animals focus on the children. oh i mean fuck the children focus on the american kids. Or wait *puts on my white hood* fuck the american kids let's only help the white ones. Anyone got a match?"
Thank you, thank you very much.
:o :flame:
and might i add a nice big FUCK YOU!!! :D
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Its not a matter of if we deserve more than an animal or not, its that we should protect our own kind, our own countrymen, our own children, before we do anything about a damned animal. Yeah, a human being does deserve more than an animal! Why NOT be humanistic about it?
But the thing is... are animals going to save us? Who is going to save us from ourselves... other humans. Animals are out living their darwinistic birth>reproduce>death cycle generation by generation, and frankly, as the only sentient, sapient beings on earth (as far as we know anyway) we do matter a little more.
Am I saying you should make something capable of suffering suffer? No. I am saying that a starving or tortured person comes before a starving or tortured animal.
My biggest gripe is the fucking "animal cops" on animal planet that fucking go into people's houses to check on PETS, but they can't go into PROGRAMS to check on PEOPLE. ARGH.
im simply trying to shed some PERSPECTIVE. what the fuck is crying about peta like a BITCH doing to help kids? And how is it being a HUMANITARIAN by saying FUCK the rest of the kids only help the americans. yeah that's smart. wow so i can see how i should therefore also respect his view on animals or anything for that matter. Yeah. right. Thanks!
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So yeah, fuck you people who care about Africans but not our own citizens, fuck you people who care more about animals than kids, and fuck you do-nothings who don't even care about anything at all.
:x
What an ignorant, immature perspective you have on the world. Thank god there are people in OTHER COUNTRIES helping us fight this fight here in this country and other countries since that's where all the rehabs seem to be moving. Or did you think we were doing this all on our own?
Get your head out of your ass. What the fuck does it have to do with being citizens? Do you know how many emails and letters i've gotten from people outside of our country that actually want to help this cause? God damn i would be ashamed for them to read some elitist bullshit like that. FUCK YOU PEOPLE who aren't humanitarians, who only want to save the abused kids in AMERICA. I can see the comparison to animals maybe, but children are children and I'll be damned if someone is going to judge me for wanting to help out globally. FUCK YOU!
Take a step back and realize this is a global problem and certainly spouting off your kind of bull shit is really going to HELP the children. Give me a fucking break. They are moving rehabs out of our country to places like FIJI, we can't do shit without the assistance of other countries now. But really if i take YOUR view why should we once it's off US soil. OR what if half the kids in the school were sent from england, should we ONLY FOCUS on saving the AMERICANS? Are you smoking crack? Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. It's a sick place, whine about PETA all you want, what a fucking waste of energy.
So yeah FUCK ME for giving a FUCK! HELL YEAH! I'm proud to be an INTERNATIONAL Children's Rights Activist fuck anyone who thinks because you were born in this country somehow that makes you bleed some other color then the rest of the world.
(Baby) Jesus Christ! What the fuck is wrong with people? You're almost as bad as PETA, hell worse. Don't you realize how HYPOCRITICAL you sound?
Here's my impression of YOU:
"Fuck the animals focus on the children. oh i mean fuck the children focus on the american kids. Or wait *puts on my white hood* fuck the american kids let's only help the white ones. Anyone got a match?"
Thank you, thank you very much.
:o :flame:
and might i add a nice big FUCK YOU!!! :D
Wait, you think we should walk over our own walking wounded to go help someone somewhere else?
Or maybe you forgot:
people in far flung places in a feel-good-about-myself-for-doing-it way
Uh, I'm not against us helping other nations, but I do think our own fucking children in these programs are top priority, period. A pen stroke could fix it. Making the cops enforce the laws we have would stop it. There is no reason to not put an end to this shit, as easily as it could be stopped, but to instead go throw money and have fund raisers, stupid concerts, and get crying celebrities to show their faces to send grain to starving Africans that gets intercepted by warlords.
We can't fix the fucked up parts of the world without basically invading, taking over, and making them like us (like the ROMANS did, not like we're half-assing it in Iraq) and I think we should be honest with ourselves about this. Throwing money and helping, say, a few people is going to waste the money and help those few people in the short term, but the problem remains. But, the people who do that feel good about it... YIPPE!
Yet, back at home, more kids are going through the fucking program pipeline and NOBODY IS DOING A FUCKING THING ABOUT IT.
There is ZERO excuse that more people care about puppies and Ethiopians than kids in your own country, PERIOD. THEY wont save us, WE have to save us. Let the rest of the world care about things far enough away to not get too involved with, we need to actually care about things up close.
But at any rate, what burns my ass the most, in the end, is I've seen homes invaded to help a fucking dog... but programs don't get invaded to help our own god damn kids.
That is, infact, stupid.
Oh, and if I was in charge, a foreign nation holding an abusive 'rehab' for our kids would get invaded for a crime against our citizenry, so Fiji and Jamaica would be vassal states within 08. But, well, I doubt I'm taking over tomorrow...
...and don't even get me started about the "example" I'd set with people I could prove were responsible for doing this shit to kids if I ever took the reigns. You know how the romans had crucifixes on the roads in and out of Rome with criminals hung on them to die, rot, and fall off?
I think you can see where I'm going.
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Also, incase you got the wrong idea...
I think that child abuse is wrong, anywhere, and it does matter whether it is in our nation's borders or not, and I don't stop caring if they are sent overseas, or from another nation sent here, or from another nation in another nation being abused.
I do think its stupid we can't stop it here, as simple as it would be, simply exposing it and stopping it by enforcing our laws and closing them... but we make a big deal (But do basically nil) about shit in other places.
Its a waste of effort. You won't get the food past the gangs and warlords, you won't help everyone, just a few, and for the cameras... and its more about the celebrities and the promoters than anything else.
But I am pretty cynical, so whatever.
At any rate... it is STUPID, FUCKING STUPID we can't stop it here, and its STUPID there are probably ten times, or a hundred times more people who care about furry little cute things or rare birds or dolphins or whatever than our own kids, or more people who care about africans or east europeans than... our own kids. That's not right.
Hell, I had one 'advocate' say that all american kids were all spoiled and deserve it so she ONLY cares about foreign kids. WTF IS THAT SHIT?
She's a bitch anyway.
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I think you can see where I'm going.
To hell? sorry my focus is to end this GLOBAL abuse against children. FUCK focusing on it in this country. the problem goes way beyond our walls.. Fuck if my family member died in vain. And fuck me for feeling like i even have to explain or defend my view.
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This thread was me bitching out loud not fucking directing a fucking thing to you. You didn't have to defend shit, you threw your comment in and got your butt hurt over it.
Get over yourself.
I'm against any abuse, ever, but I'm not going to walk past our starving kids, or our abused kids, to go play out the liberal contemporary version of the white man's burden and getting off on helping people far away when people here need it too!
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Also, incase you got the wrong idea...
I think that child abuse is wrong, anywhere, and it does matter whether it is in our nation's borders or not, and I don't stop caring if they are sent overseas, or from another nation sent here, or from another nation in another nation being abused.
She's a bitch anyway.
why the fuck are you wasting your time BITCHING about shit that isn't gonna help. negativity attracts, guess what, negativity. keep it up, it will get you FAR in life. maybe if you took the time to see how you come across in your post and how offensive and RUDE it is to some people who actually give a fuck. Fuck like i give crap what 1 foreign elitist thinks? She doesn't speak for me or the world. Neither do you. I however, choose to speak for those who no longer can and i don't discriminate.
Fight the battles you can win and move on to the next one rather then whining about some bitch or animal rights group. I mean WHAT THE FUCK is that doing to help ANYONE but yourself. You should take that vent to a BOARD maybe that needs some enlightening, This would not be the place.
Don't get me wrong. You can post whatever the fuck you want it's a free country. Just sayin... I don't think it's doing much of anything "POSITIVE" over here at least not the way you spat it out at people. it sure as fuck made me change my perspective on you a bit, I'll tell you that. but like you said you dont give a fuck.
and i know you want to stop abuse, but that doesn't mean we need to put anyone else down who is simply choosing to fight for LIFE in their own way.
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This thread was me bitching out loud not fucking directing a fucking thing to you. You didn't have to defend shit, you threw your comment in and got your butt hurt over it.
Get over yourself.
I'm against any abuse, ever, but I'm not going to walk past our starving kids, or our abused kids, to go play out the liberal contemporary version of the white man's burden and getting off on helping people far away when people here need it too!
When did i ever say you WEREN'T against abuse. READ!
FUCK you i didn't tell you not to post. I'm not hurt I'm BITCHIN RIGHT BACK. Get over YOURSELF.
If you expect to POST and then whine like a bitch when someone comes against what you said. WHAT THE FUCK? If you can't stand the heat get the FUCK OUT man! Can't even argue like a man. Jesus Christ! My respect is flyin out the window!
And please RESPOND as i stated in my previous post I'm not tellin ya not to vent, do what the FUCK you want. you COULD stop whining and go put that energy into something that might actually do some fucking GOOD! or keep posting like a bitch. I don't give a fuck! And I'm quite fond of myself and won't be gettin OVER myself anytime soon. You on the other hand should give it a try.
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At any rate... it is STUPID, FUCKING STUPID we can't stop it here,
keep THINKING that and im sure it will continue to happen.
"You become AND attract what you think"
"Choose your thoughts carefully .. you are a masterpiece of your life"
"You create your own universe as you go along" Winston Churchill
"All that we are is a result of what we have thought" - Buddha
"Imagination is everything. It is the preview of life's coming attractions." Albert Einstein
"Whatever the mind of man can conceive, it can achieve" W. Clement Stone
So yeah keep THINKIN we CANT and we NEVER will. There is as much power in what you think as in what you do. Of course we can, give me a break! And we will.
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I love animals. Why not fight to protect them? Its interesting that in fowarding animals are inferior to humans so its unesesary to treat them ethically is the same argument the troubled teen industry makes about youth.
I think compassion is great. I dont like when "advocates" get upset over the use of the N word by a radio comentator, thats ridiculous, but I dont see why people caring for animals should be thought of as irrelevent idiots . Most people dont do dont care or anything but themselves. They should be the object of derision in my opinion
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WE KNOW THAT! WHY DO YOU FEEL YOU HAVE TO REPEAT IT SO FUCKING MUCH! OKAY, IT MATTERS TO YOU, IT MATTERS TO US TOO! BUT RIGHT NOW ALL THAT I CAN NOTICE IS YOU CANT SHUT UP AND STOP REPEATING WHAT WE KNOW!
WE SAY CUNT BECUASE YOU SAID "C-WORD" WHEN THERE ARE TONS OF C-WORDS AND WE WISH YOU'D NOT PUSH YOUR SENSITIVITIES ON US. FORNITS DOESNT FOLLOW YOUR RULES!
IF YOU CANT TAKE IT LEAVE!
IF YOU FEEL THREATENED, LEAVE! YOU'VE PISSED OFF EVERYONE BECAUSE ALL YOU DO IS FUCKING ATTACK AND RANT AT US AND PISS US OFF AND REPEAT SHIT WE ALREADY KNOW BECUASE IT PISSES YOU OFF PERSONALLY.
THIS IS NOT BECMUASE YOU POSTED THAT GIRLS IN PV WERE SEXUALLY HARASSED, THIS IS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T COMMUNICATE, YOU ATTACK EVERYONE, BLAME MEN, RANT ABOUT FEMINISIM, SAY "C-WORD" AND EXPECT US TO GUESS WHAT YOU MEAN BY IT, AND ATTACK AND RANT ALL THE FUCKING TIME.
SHUT UP! SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!
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why the fuck are you wasting your time BITCHING about shit that isn't gonna help. negativity attracts, guess what, negativity. keep it up, it will get you FAR in life. maybe if you took the time to see how you come across in your post and how offensive and RUDE it is to some people who actually give a fuck. Fuck like i give crap what 1 foreign elitist thinks? She doesn't speak for me or the world. Neither do you. I however, choose to speak for those who no longer can and i don't discriminate.
Fight the battles you can win and move on to the next one rather then whining about some bitch or animal rights group. I mean WHAT THE FUCK is that doing to help ANYONE but yourself. You should take that vent to a BOARD maybe that needs some enlightening, This would not be the place.
Don't get me wrong. You can post whatever the fuck you want it's a free country. Just sayin... I don't think it's doing much of anything "POSITIVE" over here at least not the way you spat it out at people. it sure as fuck made me change my perspective on you a bit, I'll tell you that. but like you said you dont give a fuck.
and i know you want to stop abuse, but that doesn't mean we need to put anyone else down who is simply choosing to fight for LIFE in their own way.
Not enough cursing in these posts... more superfluous cuss words (like fuck) would make it easier to read, thanks.
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So yeah, fuck you people who care about Africans but not our own citizens, fuck you people who care more about animals than kids, and fuck you do-nothings who don't even care about anything at all.
:x
What an ignorant, immature perspective you have on the world. Thank god there are people in OTHER COUNTRIES helping us fight this fight here in this country and other countries since that's where all the rehabs seem to be moving. Or did you think we were doing this all on our own?
Get your head out of your ass. What the fuck does it have to do with being citizens? Do you know how many emails and letters i've gotten from people outside of our country that actually want to help this cause? God damn i would be ashamed for them to read some elitist bullshit like that. FUCK YOU PEOPLE who aren't humanitarians, who only want to save the abused kids in AMERICA. I can see the comparison to animals maybe, but children are children and I'll be damned if someone is going to judge me for wanting to help out globally. FUCK YOU!
Take a step back and realize this is a global problem and certainly spouting off your kind of bull shit is really going to HELP the children. Give me a fucking break. They are moving rehabs out of our country to places like FIJI, we can't do shit without the assistance of other countries now. But really if i take YOUR view why should we once it's off US soil. OR what if half the kids in the school were sent from england, should we ONLY FOCUS on saving the AMERICANS? Are you smoking crack? Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. It's a sick place, whine about PETA all you want, what a fucking waste of energy.
So yeah FUCK ME for giving a FUCK! HELL YEAH! I'm proud to be an INTERNATIONAL Children's Rights Activist fuck anyone who thinks because you were born in this country somehow that makes you bleed some other color then the rest of the world.
You wanna free Africa, I stare at yuh
Cuz we ain't got it too good in America
I can't fuck with them overseas
My homeboy died over a key of cocaine
It was plain and simple
The 9mm went to the temple
was the sound I put the bitch down, etc.
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We all have our unique passions for causes. That's OK. It's probably good that we're not all passionate about the same thing ... or many good causes would be neglected.
IMHO.
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We all have our unique passions for causes.
Hmm, yes.. & for some it seems that it's pointless arguing on a web forum. :rofl: :roll: :P 8-) :rofl:
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Not enough cursing in these posts... more superfluous cuss words (like fuck) would make it easier to read, thanks.
LOL FUCK YOU PLEASE!
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So yeah, fuck you people who care about Africans but not our own citizens, fuck you people who care more about animals than kids, and fuck you do-nothings who don't even care about anything at all.
:x
What an ignorant, immature perspective you have on the world. Thank god there are people in OTHER COUNTRIES helping us fight this fight here in this country and other countries since that's where all the rehabs seem to be moving. Or did you think we were doing this all on our own?
Get your head out of your ass. What the fuck does it have to do with being citizens? Do you know how many emails and letters i've gotten from people outside of our country that actually want to help this cause? God damn i would be ashamed for them to read some elitist bullshit like that. FUCK YOU PEOPLE who aren't humanitarians, who only want to save the abused kids in AMERICA. I can see the comparison to animals maybe, but children are children and I'll be damned if someone is going to judge me for wanting to help out globally. FUCK YOU!
Take a step back and realize this is a global problem and certainly spouting off your kind of bull shit is really going to HELP the children. Give me a fucking break. They are moving rehabs out of our country to places like FIJI, we can't do shit without the assistance of other countries now. But really if i take YOUR view why should we once it's off US soil. OR what if half the kids in the school were sent from england, should we ONLY FOCUS on saving the AMERICANS? Are you smoking crack? Grow the fuck up and welcome to the real world. It's a sick place, whine about PETA all you want, what a fucking waste of energy.
So yeah FUCK ME for giving a FUCK! HELL YEAH! I'm proud to be an INTERNATIONAL Children's Rights Activist fuck anyone who thinks because you were born in this country somehow that makes you bleed some other color then the rest of the world.
You wanna free Africa, I stare at yuh
Cuz we ain't got it too good in America
I can't fuck with them overseas
My homeboy died over a key of cocaine
It was plain and simple
The 9mm went to the temple
was the sound I put the bitch down, etc.
We got it a hell of a lot better them most. People whine about not likin their jobs or not likin their home. cry cry fuckin cry, at least ya got a family, fa house a place to live. and its not about helpin africans my only point was (i has a psychotic episode yesterday you'll have to excuse me, whiners sometimes do that to me so i myself become what I hate the most) i'm about stopping the problem globally not w/ in our borders. Sure you have to Start somewhere but a lot of the kids here are now being shipped somewhere else. They still need a voice.
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We all have our unique passions for causes. That's OK. It's probably good that we're not all passionate about the same thing ... or many good causes would be neglected.
IMHO.
you speak the truth my friend!
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We all have our unique passions for causes.
Hmm, yes.. & for some it seems that it's pointless arguing on a web forum. :rofl: :roll: :P 8-) :rofl:
of course it was pointless look who i was arguing with, hence the extra drama added for the entertainment of others. and you sir/ma'am can bite ME ASS! Lemme know how it tastes. :rofl: :roll: :P 8-) :rofl:
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of course it was pointless look who i was arguing with, hence the extra drama added for the entertainment of others.
Perhaps you should re-evaluate your definition of entertainment.
:lol:
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Niles,
I hear your frustration.... but,
The world is going to hell. There are so many important issues.
Radical Weather Change (Global Warming)-desertification broadening
Dying Oceans and lakes, rivers, streams too polluted to swim in
Tap water that's too polluted to drink, laced with all kinds of toxins and rx's
Extinction of many species
Food supply getting less safe
Air quality deminishing- pollution and deforestation
Weird fucking manmade viruses
Honey bees are dying. When they're gone, we're gone
People working their asses off to have basic necessities and no time for ANY activism
And dozens more that I'm not thinking of right now
All of these things stem from a greedy way of life that doesn't look past today, that poorly manages and squanders resources (more than the uneducated can imagine), that inflicts third world nations with violence to obtain control of their resources, that puts profit before people (life), etc. etc. Does anyone else every wonder what the f'in mad scientists at Monsanto etal are thinking??? They certainly can't be thinking about their grandkids, or their grankids, grandkids?
Very few are 'honoring thy mother'. The tits about to go dry.
I invest a lot of time on this issue, but there are many others that are important to me, some, more important. Programs will be irrelevant if/when our environment becomes so devastated that it won't support human/animal life. I disagree that we humans are more important or relevant than the animal kingdom, or the plant kingdom. You may not realise how important they are until they're gone. Without them, we 'sentient' beings won't be around. We are killing the very source of our sustenance. How 'sentient' are we? And if you think we are the only intellegent life or that animals don't have feelings, you haven't hung out with them enough. They are stripped of their inherent natures and live in 'programs' their entire, short lived lives. Sorry bout the rant on animals, but I'd actually like to see more done for their protection. Factory farming was never a good idea. Disrespect is disrespect, whether toward human or animal.
I understand why people support aid to other countries. There's a sense of guilt about what our leaders have done to create such dire situations in those countries.
In the big picture, middle-class folk sending their kids to bm warehouses for a couple of years is but a tiny speck on their radar, if at all. Some parents will continue to send their kids away, as long as there are places to send them. This ain't a new concept. And if/when any federal regulation comes about, programs will find loopholes or weasle their way into the creation of legislation. The best we can hope on that front is that factual data will become available which will undoubtedly show the inefficacy of programs.
The very best activism right now, imo, is to disect every program and expose it for what it is. Pick one, any program. Post what is advertised on their website and then show any proof of inaccuracies re: staff credentials, licensing, incongruencies in policies, links to survivors stories, etc. That is what parents need in order to make informed choices. Put it in a nice comprehensive packet with links. Do the research for them, make it easy to find the truth.
Get it to the media if possible.
The industry could die if/when enough parents see what's really going on inside, and it ain't gonna come from their kids during 10 minute phone calls once a week (if lucky) that are monitored.
I really do understand your frustration, and we all need a good vent every now and then.
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Man, I wish I could write like Deborah! That's it, in one big heartfelt nutshell! Let's all redirect our talons and fangs to a more appropriate venue, eh?
::poke:: ::peace:: :)
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Deb, our concepts of humanity, humanism, being kind, being civil.. HUMANE treatment... those are concepts we made. I didn't say we were the only sentient beings, we are the only known SAPIENT beings.
These concepts are not naturalistic, they are human. Humanely killing an animal (say at a farm) is not how, say, a predator or group of predators would do it. Seen lionesses eat animals alive they pin down? Seen Grizzlies peel the skin off animals still struggling while eating? Do they care about killing it first? Only if they have to. Otherwise, its wasted effort and evolutionarily speaking foolish.
Our concepts of being kind, being good, doing the right thing... these are not universal or natural. Those too are human-derived... we came up with them.
Unless you believe in a deity, but I digress, that is outside the scope of this.
I am not saying we shouldn't care about other nations - I AM saying we should not get tunnel vision and forget what is at our feet. I am not saying animals do not matter and we should not treat them humanely - I am saying that we shouldn't forget about our own kids being farmed!
Personally, to me the environment is a resource to be managed for our own sake... unless of course we should return to the reducing atmosphere pre-oxygen-catastrophe when Cyanobacteria evolved and left that nice rust coating in bedrock a few billions years ago :rofl: but of course along those lines that means keeping it healthy.
Same for animals. Domesticated animals are pretty fucking successful, aren't they? Chickens are doing better than before domestication, same for dogs... same for cats, same for pigs. Am I saying they should be kept in squalid conditions, abused, or mistreated? No.
I am saying that if the same effort that "PETA" puts into bitching about KFC and fur-farms went into bitching about DFAF and 'duck'-farms (er, quacks...) we wouldn't be here having this discussion! I'm sick and tired of blinded-by-their-ideology people caring about "their issue" or their "pop-issues" and losing sight of the bigger picture. Everyone bitching about conditions overseas need to get to NEW ORLEANS... its been over a YEAR now and its still a hell hole! People who want to help education elsewhere should look at our own education system.
Remember when Bill hicks said if we spent our defense budget on feeding and clothing the world, and educating them, it would pay for itself many times over... and we wouldn't even have to spend the entire budget to do it? I'd be fine with that. But, alas, everyone's too stupid to think along those lines... Ugh.
Either way, the amount of awareness and effort into stopping parent/state sponsored brainwashing and torture is way, way, WAY too low and there's no excuse for people with loaded language who care about a small niche of the big picture of the hell we are going to in a fucking hand basket ignoring it.
Apathy takes many forms. Feel-good-about-it activism is the same thing, to me, except hypocritical.
And don't get me started on Oprah's shenanigans with her 'school' in africa we've all found out about. GOD.
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Deb, our concepts of humanity, humanism, being kind, being civil.. HUMANE treatment... those are concepts we made. I didn't say we were the only sentient beings, we are the only known SAPIENT beings.
Animals are out living their darwinistic birth>reproduce>death cycle generation by generation, and frankly, as the only sentient, sapient beings on earth (as far as we know anyway) we do matter a little more.
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We're not the only sentient beings, but we are the only sapient beings.
What's so hard to understand?
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Deb, our concepts of humanity, humanism, being kind, being civil.. HUMANE treatment... those are concepts we made. I didn't say we were the only sentient beings, we are the only known SAPIENT beings.
Animals are out living their darwinistic birth>reproduce>death cycle generation by generation, and frankly, as the only sentient, sapient beings on earth (as far as we know anyway) we do matter a little more.
Bit of a stickler there, eh?
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Deb, our concepts of humanity, humanism, being kind, being civil.. HUMANE treatment... those are concepts we made. I didn't say we were the only sentient beings, we are the only known SAPIENT beings.
Animals are out living their darwinistic birth>reproduce>death cycle generation by generation, and frankly, as the only sentient, sapient beings on earth (as far as we know anyway) we do matter a little more.
Uh, what?
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Bit of a stickler there, eh?
SENTIENCE IS NOT SAPIENCE.
www.m-w.com (http://www.m-w.com)
Duh...
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ell arent we all a pack of gloomy gusses today! All the trouble in the world!
I would say that for anyone from any country the idea that you should care more about you own back yard than what is happening elsewhere is somewhat insular and isolating. Of course local issues are important (whatever your local issues are) but to say a person should care more about what is happening within their own country than anyone elses i think in the end breeds a certain lack of tolerance or understanding of anyone who is "not like me"
One thing i like about the internet is that it connects us all. If it is used as a tool for dialogue people can learn so much about each other. i think that in a way this can make people a little less narrow and selfish and a little more aware of what life is like for other citizens of the world. It is also a very democratic medium. it used to be that people learnt about other cultures by travelling. Now those who can not afford to can gain a more global insight by logging into their computer.
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of course it was pointless look who i was arguing with, hence the extra drama added for the entertainment of others.
Perhaps you should re-evaluate your definition of entertainment.
:lol:
oh yes i forgot you are the definer of the universe. my bad! plus i really was only concerned in entertaining myself that night.
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Fuck it I'm just gonna get drunk.
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Might as well get juiced.
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Deb, our concepts of humanity, humanism, being kind, being civil.. HUMANE treatment... those are concepts we made. I didn't say we were the only sentient beings, we are the only known SAPIENT beings.
These concepts are not naturalistic, they are human. Humanely killing an animal (say at a farm) is not how, say, a predator or group of predators would do it. Seen lionesses eat animals alive they pin down? Seen Grizzlies peel the skin off animals still struggling while eating? Do they care about killing it first? Only if they have to. Otherwise, its wasted effort and evolutionarily speaking foolish.
Our concepts of being kind, being good, doing the right thing... these are not universal or natural. Those too are human-derived... we came up with them.
Unless you believe in a deity, but I digress, that is outside the scope of this.
I am not saying we shouldn't care about other nations - I AM saying we should not get tunnel vision and forget what is at our feet. I am not saying animals do not matter and we should not treat them humanely - I am saying that we shouldn't forget about our own kids being farmed!
Personally, to me the environment is a resource to be managed for our own sake... unless of course we should return to the reducing atmosphere pre-oxygen-catastrophe when Cyanobacteria evolved and left that nice rust coating in bedrock a few billions years ago :rofl: but of course along those lines that means keeping it healthy.
Same for animals. Domesticated animals are pretty fucking successful, aren't they? Chickens are doing better than before domestication, same for dogs... same for cats, same for pigs. Am I saying they should be kept in squalid conditions, abused, or mistreated? No.
I am saying that if the same effort that "PETA" puts into bitching about KFC and fur-farms went into bitching about DFAF and 'duck'-farms (er, quacks...) we wouldn't be here having this discussion! I'm sick and tired of blinded-by-their-ideology people caring about "their issue" or their "pop-issues" and losing sight of the bigger picture. Everyone bitching about conditions overseas need to get to NEW ORLEANS... its been over a YEAR now and its still a hell hole! People who want to help education elsewhere should look at our own education system.
Remember when Bill hicks said if we spent our defense budget on feeding and clothing the world, and educating them, it would pay for itself many times over... and we wouldn't even have to spend the entire budget to do it? I'd be fine with that. But, alas, everyone's too stupid to think along those lines... Ugh.
Either way, the amount of awareness and effort into stopping parent/state sponsored brainwashing and torture is way, way, WAY too low and there's no excuse for people with loaded language who care about a small niche of the big picture of the hell we are going to in a fucking hand basket ignoring it.
Apathy takes many forms. Feel-good-about-it activism is the same thing, to me, except hypocritical.
And don't get me started on Oprah's shenanigans with her 'school' in africa we've all found out about. GOD.
*yawn*
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Bit of a stickler there, eh?
SENTIENCE IS NOT SAPIENCE.
www.m-w.com (http://www.m-w.com)
Duh...
wow i mean if there's a link and it's ON the internet it MUST be true!
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*yawn*
Aside from it perhaps being a bit long, what was boring about it?
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Bit of a stickler there, eh?
SENTIENCE IS NOT SAPIENCE.
www.m-w.com (http://www.m-w.com)
Duh...
wow i mean if there's a link and it's ON the internet it MUST be true!
:question: Is that point really worth disputing? Come on..
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All of you PETA haters can go fuck yourself. Many of my bunny babies are still alive today because of PETA. If you are saying bunnies are worth saving, well you can bite my pink fluffy tail bitches!
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*yawn*
Aside from it perhaps being a bit long, what was boring about it?
since when does a yawn exclusively imply boring?
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since when does a yawn exclusively imply boring?
Go on...
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(http://http://www.logoi.com/pastimages/img/alice_in_wonderland_2.jpg)
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since when does a yawn exclusively imply boring?
Go on...
I was tired, i yawned and i enjoy fucking with Niles. Any more questions dear boy? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Niles knows i love him!
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(http://http://www.logoi.com/pastimages/img/alice_in_wonderland_2.jpg)
so wait, you're the one to my right, in the dress right alice?
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since when does a yawn exclusively imply boring?
Go on...
I was tired, i yawned and i enjoy fucking with Niles. Any more questions dear boy? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Niles knows i love him!
Oh, I see...
Ok, Niles? He/she loves you, that's why he/she is fucking with you.
How could I have missed that?? :rofl:
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since when does a yawn exclusively imply boring?
Go on...
I was tired, i yawned and i enjoy fucking with Niles. Any more questions dear boy? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Niles knows i love him!
Oh, I see...
Ok, Niles? He/she loves you, that's why he/she is fucking with you.
How could I have missed that?? :rofl:
Oh my bad, you never fuck with anyone. And all those you fuck with you hate. I fuck with you often does this imply I don't like you?
anyway. i had a bad day dammit. shoot me. Wait i'll do it myself! Where's my camera?
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Did TAC forget to log in or did another weirdo take a liking to me? :roll:
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Did TAC forget to log in or did another weirdo take a liking to me? :roll:
oh you can lump me with the other weirdos niles baby! lol and bite my pink fluffy tail while you're at it.
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TAC? (sorry, not up on that user acronym)
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Anthro is fine but furry is not, just fyi.
And I'm straight, btw.
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TAC? (sorry, not up on that user acronym)
Try Another Castle.
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Oh, ok...duh.
Cheers!
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Anthro is fine but furry is not, just fyi.
And I'm straight, btw.
Well first of all I'm not A Furry i AM furry, big difference. I'm a bunny what the fuck do you want. And last time i checked I was female dippy. if you paid attention you'd know who i was. goodness.
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Well, just don't be a "furry" and you won't get trolled, ok?
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Dinosaur, Jr. does a song that I love called "Little Fury Things."
(just one R.. a play on words?)
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Well, just don't be a "furry" and you won't get trolled, ok?
oh TRUST me my red furred friend. i would NEVER get trolled. I delete all trolls who fuck with me. LOL ok maybe not, but i could, even though i wouldn't, unless it was you who was doing the trolling!
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(just one R.. a play on words?)
ya think?
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Deb, our concepts of humanity, humanism, being kind, being civil.. HUMANE treatment... those are concepts we made. I didn't say we were the only sentient beings, we are the only known SAPIENT beings.
Guess it depends on your definition. If you mean wisdom, which is derived from observation and cause/effect; then how could one say that animals aren't sapient? I think humans spend way too much effort on trying to distinquish themselves from other species in order to feel superior. If we are different or special, then it seems incumbent on us to ensure that the natural world remain in tact so all life forms continue, instead of destroying it and select species. I personally don't find too many 'sapient' humans these days. And tend to consider animals much wiser than humans in that they don't actively destroy the very environment that sustains them.
These concepts are not naturalistic, they are human. Humanely killing an animal (say at a farm) is not how, say, a predator or group of predators would do it. Seen lionesses eat animals alive they pin down? Seen Grizzlies peel the skin off animals still struggling while eating? Do they care about killing it first? Only if they have to. Otherwise, its wasted effort and evolutionarily speaking foolish. Our concepts of being kind, being good, doing the right thing... these are not universal or natural. Those too are human-derived... we came up with them.
Not something I have time to think much about or research right now, but I know that some animals do kill their prey before eating it. I also notice that the mama eats before the babies in some clans, cause if mama don't eat, don't nobody eat. And in terms of kind/good/right, might we lump those together under respect? I'm thinking about monkeys that have multiple adults caring for them. Bear and foxes playing with their babies, but then kicking them out of the den when they're able to fend for themselves. Same with birds. There is a dove nest in my backyard. I watch the mama and the daddy take care of them everyday, not true of all birds. They also mate for life, not true of all. Animals, like humans observe, learn, change, adapt, just like humans. I don't think they are given enough credit, personally. I think humans have had to make them inferior to justify the disrespectful way they are treated, as white folk did to black. If you's inferior, you's fair game to be oppressed.
I am not saying we shouldn't care about other nations - I AM saying we should not get tunnel vision and forget what is at our feet. I am not saying animals do not matter and we should not treat them humanely -I am saying that we shouldn't forget about our own kids being farmed!
I know that about you. But, others are not going to leave their causes of choice and jump on this bandwagon to save, what, 10K kids a year from being brainwashed? Honestly, for some, it would seem insignificant when looking at the big picture. You'd first have to spend days convincing them that it's happening. Besides, and I'm not being critical, but if all those apathetic, feel-good, activists did jump on the industry bandwagon, what exactly would they do?
Personally, to me the environment is a resource to be managed for our own sake...
Ever heard of specism? Why not for the sake of all species? We really are a team. We aren't superior.
Same for animals. Domesticated animals are pretty fucking successful, aren't they? Chickens are doing better than before domestication, same for dogs... same for cats, same for pigs. Am I saying they should be kept in squalid conditions, abused, or mistreated? No.
Welp, I won't stay on the soapbox too long, and my apologies to pet owners who may be offended. We need more chickens running wild and fewer domesticated cats and dogs. Do you know anything about factory farming of chickens? It is grossly repulsive. You might not eat chicken again if you did. Deer were becoming domesticated where I used to live because of the unnatural numbers due to human encroachment and the killing of all their predators. They were starving and would come right onto my porch and eat pot plants. They were scrawny and unhealthy. Nature works. Humans fuck it up. Their predators were killed because ranchers didn't want to loose a cow or two every year. Open the newpaper to the domesticated animal section. It's often larger than the real estate section, big business. Someone I know spent $2000 for a yippyyappy, useless, dog. Can't remember the breed, but the most obnoxious animal I've ever been around. Like a furry rat on cocaine. We have an unnatural population of kitties and puppies that are taking a toll on other species- extinction of some fish to make cat food, extinction of song birds, lizards, frogs. Some have been so domesticated they couldn't take care of themselves if they had to. I hear dogs all over my neighborhood yelping at each other in the night and it always sounds like they are so miserable. You think they enjoy being isolated from their kind and made to be the emotional slave of a human? Humans decide when, or if they reproduce. When/if they go outside. And what of all the in-breeding causing retardation. They're as unhappy as their owners, tearing up the house when left alone, pissing on the carpet in retaliation, and many are on fucking prozac. Is that 'successful'? They live in captivity, just as we all do. A good book on the subject is "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn, in which a gorilla details the ills of captivity. In effect, we ALL live in program everyday. Robbed of our inherent wisdom, robbed of quality time spent with loved ones, robbed of relaxation and recreation, working at mind numbing occupations that have no genuine benefit to any species, but keep that GNP lookin good.
I am saying that if the same effort that "PETA" puts into bitching about KFC and fur-farms went into bitching about DFAF and 'duck'-farms (er, quacks...) we wouldn't be here having this discussion! I'm sick and tired of blinded-by-their-ideology people caring about "their issue" or their "pop-issues" and losing sight of the bigger picture.
I hear ya. I wish everyone would support my causes too. Ain't gonna happen. The 'bigger picture' meaning programs. The bigger picture for me, is the general lack of care and respect for nature and all species. If we lived in a culture that even respected human life, we wouldn't have programs. That's my bigger picture, and how do you change that? Hint: you don't. You sit and slowly watch the drive for more money and power destroy everyone and everything in it's path.
Everyone bitching about conditions overseas need to get to NEW ORLEANS... its been over a YEAR now and its still a hell hole! People who want to help education elsewhere should look at our own education system.
No shit! Lots to bitch about, right here at home. And if your government doesn't respect it's own citizens, it's sure not gonna respect citizens of the world, specially if they got something they can profit from.
Remember when Bill hicks said if we spent our defense budget on feeding and clothing the world, and educating them, it would pay for itself many times over... and we wouldn't even have to spend the entire budget to do it? I'd be fine with that. But, alas, everyone's too stupid to think along those lines... Ugh.
I might agree with that too, what if they prefer to be naked rather than clothed? And, it would depend on how he proposed to 'educate' them. How's that working here? Compulsory education hasn't eliminated poor and working poor. The US, wealthiest nation on the planet has dropped to #6 in quality of life.
Either way, the amount of awareness and effort into stopping parent/state sponsored brainwashing and torture is way, way, WAY too low and there's no excuse for people with loaded language who care about a small niche of the big picture of the hell we are going to in a fucking hand basket ignoring it.
There are literally millions of people who are still ignorant of the industry's existence. Can't fault them for not supporting something they don't know exists. Educating the masses is a slow process unless you have unlimited money and time. As far as 'amount of effort', I have watched the awareness grow and significantly more effort happen right here. When I first came to Fornits there could be a day or more that no posts were made, or that's how I remember it. I always wished there was more activity. Awareness and momentum are/have grown, it's just a slow process. Imagine what it feels like for blacks to still be enduring racism after 50+ years of 'liberation'. Do you know that the study showing blacks to be intellectually inferior is STILL cited, even though subsequent studies disproved it? Humans are de-volving. We're a mess and have created lots of messes. The industry is one of them, and in the big picture, and to some people, a small one. Sad, but true.
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I wont address waht you said piecewise because I'm too drunk and lazy.
Evolved behaviors that are for the good of the group do not equate to or compare to the intelligent behavior of a sapient being, nor do they have anything to do with our sense of morality.
Monkeys take care of monkeys becuase they survive more than monkeys who live with selfish asshole monkeys. Duh.
Animals only kill prey if there is a good reason to, or if they evolved a good reason to and didn't de-evolve it away if they don't HAVE to. I've seen lions slowly picking away at the hindquarters of a collapsed but very alive and loudly complaining bull elephant that reached out its trunk to another elephant standing by (but not stopping the lions from eating the elephant's ass... alive) and I've seen crying baby elephants being eaten alive by lions with the naturalist saying "if the elephant struggled it would only make it worse" and then go on some poetic prose about africa coming at you from both sides... and switching to a scene with happy lion cubs playing around.
All this shit we talk about and come up with is just that... our creations. No more. Birds take care of thier offspring because the well cared for offspring survive more than abandoned offspring.
Evoultion and darwinism boils down to whatever can reproduce the best is the most successful.
Don't attach human concepts to watching birdies care for their chicks. Its cute, its "awww"... but the bird's can't think, they're following instinct because birds who fed their babies survived better than those who didn't do as good of a job. Nothing more.
Also, specisim is... just something that HUMAN BEINGS CAME UP WITH. Nothing any individual animal cares about is its own survival and reproduction... specism is such a absurd concept that it really besmirks me of people being too busy feeling bad about hamburgers and baby veal cows to think rationally. Things matter becuase we exist to care about them, unless other rational, sapient beings exist to care about things.
And there still is no "universal" naturalistic measure of caring or mattering unless a deity exists. Sorry.
I'm not saying its not touching, I'm saying its because it makes their genetic lines last better than the lines that didn't take care of their own offspring.
But, well, anyway, I think we should care for the environment for our own sake, and we should kill animals humanely because we're humans, not becuase they animal deserves a better death becuase we caught it and not a predator who doesn't give two shits about anything but its own hunger.
And, on that note, we should stop our nations kids from being tortured and brainwashed becuase they are... uh, our nation's kids??? We should stop the torture of kids becuase us human beings decided its not OK to abuse other human beings. We decided its not OK to abuse animals because we feel sympathy for sentient beings besides us, because we hate feeling pain too... but only becuase of that.
But, icnase you forgot, I am NOT saying you shoudln't care about abused animals. I am saying people come first, period... becuase we're the only beings around who have the ability to care about such things, and we should care for ourselves.
Unless, of course, you think Bears really care about the Deer population... psst... they go after weak prey becmuase its easier for them to catch!
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I wont address waht you said piecewise because I'm too drunk and lazy.
NICE spelling here let me point out your mistakes totally to humor myself of course. lol That drunk and lazy thing works well for you.
waht
becuase
thier
Evoultion
specisim
specism
becuase
becuase
becuase
becuase
becuase
becuase (jesus did you cut and paste the misspelling of because or are you one of those people, like me, who types it wrong once and then they are stuck typing it wrong for the rest of their LIVES!? lol)
icnase ( it's 2 words when you spell it right)
shoudln't
becuase (OMG)
becmuase (Finally some fucking VARIETY! thanks!)
carry on
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hey bunbuns if I fuckeding cared I'd post with fucking forefix that fucking checks my spelling.
You fucking rabbit.
:D
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hey bunbuns if I fuckeding cared I'd post with fucking forefix that fucking checks my spelling.
You fucking rabbit.
:D
bunbuns! hahah that's good...
and FUCKEDING? lol nice...
forefix? that one im not sure about.
And you got to admit the becuase bit was funny! lol
and that's "You fucking DIVA rabbit." get it right bitch. :)
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Diva RABBIT? diva faggot!
I know its you~
but I still olve you anyway <333333333333333333333333333333
Because you're funny. Unless youre someone else, then youre stil funny, but I'm not familiar with you enough to say the l-word. Maybe the other l-word that rhymes with "mike".
But yeah, what the fuck doI care spelling. Jesus christ, the thought is what matters. Isn't that right jeusus?
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I'm not gonna say who it is, Niles.. but I WILL tell you that it isn't TAC, fwiw.
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Well ok its a bunbun.
Whoopie dooooooooooooooooooooo
Come party with me or... go do wahtever. like get in an oven. I don't care.
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Diva RABBIT? diva faggot!
I know its you~
but I still olve you anyway <333333333333333333333333333333
Because you're funny. Unless youre someone else, then youre stil funny, but I'm not familiar with you enough to say the l-word. Maybe the other l-word that rhymes with "mike".
But yeah, what the fuck doI care spelling. Jesus christ, the thought is what matters. Isn't that right jeusus?
you olve me? is that live olive oil or something? and yes its me dippy. rhymes with mike and begins with an L... hmmm got me?
And dont ask the baby jesus about shit, he can't spell either. It's a lie he does NOT know all.
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Its love.
Duh..
and its like?
wait, ARE YOU MICHAEL JORDALN!N!N!??
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I'd like to talk to someone about this PHOBIA.....
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oldmanwizardphobia!??!?! O NHOES
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(http://http://www.sharpe-tangent.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/Geicocaveman.jpg)
~/o
And everywhere I go,
There's always something to remind me
Of another place and time
Where love that travelled far had found me.
o/~
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Its love.
Duh..
and its like?
wait, ARE YOU MICHAEL JORDALN!N!N!??
no shit its love my god and no shit it's like too for fuck sake! LOL im a bunny not an idiot!
and no i just wanna be like mike. well not in every way. maybe just have his bitchs and money! yeah!
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(http://http://www.sharpe-tangent.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/Geicocaveman.jpg)
~/o
And everywhere I go,
There's always something to remind me
Of another place and time
Where love that travelled far had found me.
o/~
damn thought maybe you cut and pasted cuz it was spelled right but nope you fucked up traveled damn you! hahahahah
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I'd argue that 'evolved' behaviors that are good for all is the highest form of intelligence.
We seemed to be better adjusted when our familes more resembled monkies. Who wouldn't be well adjusted with caring aunts, uncles, grandparents assissting in their raising?
I don't care for Darwin. In modern society that boils down to, those who have the money to feed their offspring survive. What's sapient about that? Nature provides everything humans need to survive, free of charge. The key, one must have access to nature. Humans have been separated from their source of sustenance by a slew of middle men who figured out how to profit by selling nature's bounty to them. If there's no job, or their job doesn't pay a living wage, they're SOL. Are those with the resource to feed their offspring really the strongest genetic line? In what reality? They may know how to fuck people out of their money, to ensure their offspring are fed (and warehoused) but could they survive a day without the luxuries their money provides? And, I might add, one of the primary factors in why many kids are warehoused. Their parents want them to attend the best colleges and be "financially successful" at all costs. A fate almost worst than death, to slink down into the working class.
Yep, animals only kill prey to survive, unlike we sapient beings who kill animals for target practice because they are considered disposable. Thoughts of Cheney's quail hunt come to mind. Release caged dove for the VP to shoot at in a photo op. Now, that's some evolved behavior right there. Not clear on why you feel specisim is absurd, but that is but one example. Another is locking animals up in cages for human viewing and entertainment. I love getting a close up view of them in the zoo, but always feel deeply saddened by their captivity.
I hate watching those african docs, but how else is the lion to survive. Every being eats something else, from the microbe/bacteria in the soil, all the way up to the sapient beings. It's the circle of life, and those without weapons of mass destruction resort to mauling their prey, and the weakest are most likely the lion's next meal. Sapients should have to kill their next meal, rather than trot down to the hamburger joint or supermarket. Might bring a new perspective and appreciation of the non-sapients.
There's another reason for sapient beings to kill animals humanely. If the animal is in fear when they are being killed there is adreneline coarsing through their blood/tissue, along with the hormones and steroids it's been fed to plump it up for market. Who wants to eat that?
All species take care of their young, except sapient beings, unless they have been damaged.
Monkies that were kept in cages and fed from a tube protruding from a fake mother monkey could not 'care' about/for their own young, because they didn't receive care/love/whatever you want to call it. They had no attachment to their young, rejected them, and would allow them to die. What does that say about some sapient beings? You know, those ones that throw their infant in a dumpster. What does it say about the human condition? This industry is part of a much bigger social issue.
You said:
And there still is no "universal" naturalistic measure of caring or mattering unless a deity exists. Sorry.
I'm not saying its not touching, I'm saying its because it makes their genetic lines last better than the lines that didn't take care of their own offspring.
Don't those two statements contradict one another? Wouldn't an animal have to care, and wouldn't it have to matter, for them to place importance on improving their genetic line, by feeding their young? Ya think they think, "better go find some worms and crickets cause I want to feed my offspring and strengthen my genetic line"?
Nah, every being eats other beings because they're hungry and require nourishment. They feed their young because it's their inherent nature. I think animals are more in touch with thier inherent natures than we "wise, superior, sapients" at this point in history. And one of the reasons we allow the abuse of young people to continue. Humans are being conditioned away from their inherent natures, forgetting how to care for their young, forgetting how to live in a respectful way in a community of other beings. Many don't care because the current distressed human condition is a huge boon to the economy.
Distressed humans = huge profits for corporations.
Where's the incentive to create pro life social policies?
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Don't attach human concepts to watching birdies care for their chicks. Its cute, its "awww"... but the bird's can't think, they're following instinct because birds who fed their babies survived better than those who didn't do as good of a job. Nothing more.
In modern society that boils down to, those who have the money to feed their offspring survive. What's sapient about that? Nature provides everything humans need to survive, free of charge. The key, one must have access to nature. Humans have been separated from their source of sustenance by a slew of middle men who figured out how to profit by selling nature's bounty to them.
I think animals are more in touch with thier inherent natures than we "wise, superior, sapients" at this point in history. And one of the reasons we allow the abuse of young people to continue. Humans are being conditioned away from their inherent natures, forgetting how to care for their young, forgetting how to live in a respectful way in a community of other beings.
Niles, if you derived your information about "nature" from a little less removed source than the television tube, you might have a better appreciation for how animals do think, do have intelligence, even by the standards we so-called sapients have set down. Intelligence is not just about being able to read and write.
Regardless of whether you agree with the above or not (ultimately it doesn't even matter), by your being so intolerant of other's "pet causes," you are guilty of the same tunnel vision that you deride in others. Lighten up a little, and have some respect for other people's efforts. You've made it abundantly clear that you expect them to have respect for your's.
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"You breed like rats and you're no better!"
-No Trend 1981
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Rats are very intelligent, and make excellent "pets," save for their seemingly short lifespan! They are very affectionate, clean, have a more highly evolved means of resolving conflict than do most humans, and have more curiosity than they do fear. We could learn a lot from them! :lol:
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Right on!
Did you ever see The Secret Of NIMH?
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Hey Fro - how ya doin"
About Rats:
I agree totally that a rat makes a great pet. They are very intelligent and when kept as a pet, very friendly. I have known several pet rats over the years, and have always been impressed with them. One of my favortie rat memories was while I was working at a pet shop. A mother rat had a new litter of pups; and when I went in to take care of the rodents, she came out of her nest for a head scratch as usual. But then she did the cutest thing (I thought) she went into her nest and brought out one of her pups for me to see. After I had admired it , she returned it and brought out another. . And she did this with every pup she had. It seems clear to me she was proud of her new family and wanted me to see them. I was nothing short of amazed.
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I had a couple of pet rats once, they had previously participated as controls in a science expt at a local college. They were designated incinerator material when I received them, and they lived out the rest of their lives with me. I have many stories of their uncanny abilities and intelligence, their differing personalities and tastes, but one in particular always amuses me when I think of it...
There was a very small room at one end of this apartment I was renting in which I frequently allowed the rats to run around free in when I was home. My roommate was graduating from law school at the time, and was on the phone at the other end of the apartment with one of his classmates discussing the upcoming graduation ceremony. His friend, a good natured and funny guy, albeit with a rather juvenile take on life, suggested that they hire a couple of hookers as escorts to the ceremony to shock the rest of their politically correct classmates. Just then the phone went dead. My roommate's friend thought that he had really stepped over the line this time, offending even his best friend with his salacious sense of humor...
The rats had eaten through the telephone wires.
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Right on!
Did you ever see The Secret Of NIMH?
OMG i did! LOL I like rats too they get a real bad rep! It's just not fair!
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I should have picked a better analogy...
To me, ignoring what we're doing to our own kids wholesale, not JUST the programs, is like going to paint a neighbors house while your kitchen is on fire and spreading, yet you could easily grab a fire extinguisherif you'd just admit to yourself it's on fire.
There, is what I'm trying to say a little more clear?
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I should have picked a better analogy...
To me, ignoring what we're doing to our own kids wholesale, not JUST the programs, is like going to paint a neighbors house while your kitchen is on fire and spreading, yet you could easily grab a fire extinguisherif you'd just admit to yourself it's on fire.
There, is what I'm trying to say a little more clear?
welll i think you should always focus on the battle at hand while at the same time keeping your eye on the bigger picture because eventually the battle will expand beyond our borders whether we like it or not. I think you can do both I guess i my point.
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Not doing something about these programs seems about as stupid to me as not being able to pour water out of a boot if the directions were written on the heel.
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Not doing something about these programs seems about as stupid to me as not being able to pour water out of a boot if the directions were written on the heel.
I don't need fuckin' directions to pour water out of a boot, for chrissake... :lol:
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In reference to the original post:
and fuck you do-nothings who don't even care about anything at all.
Okay, get your ass over here and fuck me, bitch. I'm not doing anything right now, (because of my overwhelming sense of apathy.) :P
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Consumer whores who care about nothing but themselves and their possessions is who that was addressed to, not emotional fags who need to be poked to cheer up.
At any rate, did you see the Mario post? :P
YOURE BREAKIN MY BALLS MARIO!
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At any rate, did you see the Mario post?
No! I didn't! I saw our conversation about it in a thread. You mean there was an individual thread dedicated to the fearless plumber?
And yes, I am indeed breaking your balls. :P
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Consumer whores who care about nothing but themselves and their possessions is who that was addressed to, not emotional fags who need to be poked to cheer up.
At any rate, did you see the Mario post? :P
YOURE BREAKIN MY BALLS MARIO!
poked? is that a sexual reference? lol
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At any rate, did you see the Mario post?
No! I didn't! I saw our conversation about it in a thread. You mean there was an individual thread dedicated to the fearless plumber?
And yes, I am indeed breaking your balls. :P
careful now, i don't think he purchased the extended warranty with those. once they are broken he's screwed...
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Consumer whores who care about nothing but themselves and their possessions is who that was addressed to, not emotional fags who need to be poked to cheer up.
At any rate, did you see the Mario post? :P
YOURE BREAKIN MY BALLS MARIO!
poked? is that a sexual reference? lol
Yes, indeedy. :D
Speaking of which, Niles, I'm not the only one in this thread who needs to be poked to cheer up, mister. Nothing helps the angst more than a roll in the furs. :P
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Bunbuns - Yes.
Fag - http://www.break.com/index/super-mario- ... part1.html (http://www.break.com/index/super-mario-brothers-is-frustrating-part1.html) :wink:
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At any rate, did you see the Mario post?
No! I didn't! I saw our conversation about it in a thread. You mean there was an individual thread dedicated to the fearless plumber?
And yes, I am indeed breaking your balls. :P
careful now, i don't think he purchased the extended warranty with those. once they are broken he's screwed...
(http://http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/3974/clampdonotwantmv6.jpg)
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Bunbuns - Yes.
Fag - http://www.break.com/index/super-mario- ... part1.html (http://www.break.com/index/super-mario-brothers-is-frustrating-part1.html) :wink:
lol bunbuns rofl that made me laff...
so did fag ROFL...
so did the screwing items into yourself photo...
muchos grassy ass keep the laffs comin please LOL
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After 9/11, people said, “How can you care about animals?” It’s simple: Compassion is not some miserly pot out of which you can only take a spoonful. Caring isn’t like a few gold sovereigns bound up in a rag from which you can only take a couple. It should be limitless. Look out for your baby or your friend, of course. That is easy. The test of moral fiber is to stick up for those you relate to the least, understand minimally, and do not think are that much like you. For them, Ground Zero is every single day. They are terrified, slaughtered, and in danger every minute. Humans are their terrorists.This is about them, but it is also about us. It is about whether our hearts are big enough to look after “the least of them.” That is why the animal rights movement is a movement to be proud of.
Ingrid Newkirk - Founder of PETA
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Like I said,
If PETA and wahtever-Liberation-front put their effort into helping poor, starving, and abused humans (especially children) we'd be a lot better off by now.
Frankly I think in a lot of cases it comes down to people having a safter time feeling all compassionate and... passionate about saving little baby animals instead of people. Its more distant and its ultimately animals, not a human being... its not as hard to think about.
And I think some people just like to get off on how great they feel they are by being so 'good'.
Not to insinuate all, nor you, people who care about animals are like that. Not at all.
Its more or less an appeal to some really fucked up priorities.
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Clearly you have too much idle time on your hands. You start out trying to save a rain forrest or maybe and endangered species. Perhaps it could be the diminishing ozone. You are all too busy trying to cock block one another on this web-site. Former classmates of yours could slip through these enormous fuckin cracks and die. All the while you continue to rant and rave like luatics. It is so obvious that some of you certainly have some genetic disposition for a certain level of intelligence while some of you are fuckin mouth breathers. Well like they dsay "birds of a feather, flock together" You all want to hang out and effect nothing.... Beautiful! what an example of lives well lived.