Post by: exhausted on April 09, 2007, 07:42:20 PM
Things are still going really well at home, the boys are still out of trouble and I've not had any complaints or police knocking at the door, however .....
I was out in the garden today and I found a homemade bong hidden behind a pot plant - I know it's not the 19 year olds as he is really anti pot, he's had some very bad experiences from when he snmoked it as a young teen and is still suffering to this day, he has spoken to his younger brothers about this and went completely beserk about it when I found the bong, although understands that going mad at them is not a good idea.
I'm really freaked out by it as I'm 99% sure its my 14 year old, I have armed the younger two with every bit of information on what could happen through smoking it later on in their lives, they know pretty much everything, they also know that weed pretty much led to my own brother's very early death - the thing is, we had this episode some time back and I really thought they understood how it could ruin their lives later on, we have an obvious genetic mental instability problem in the family and I am extremely worried for them, all of the boys who have smoked weed in any shape or form have ended up very ill mentally & as I've said, my brother ended up dead.
What do I do? How do I approach this? Smoking out of a bong at their ages is a bit heavy dontcha think? I did talk with my 14 year old a couple fo weeks back as I knew he was stoned but he is denying it, although he knows I am well aware - I don't want to lose my grip and flip out on him through fear, I know that is not the way to go about it, so what is?
Post by: nimdA on April 09, 2007, 07:46:05 PM
Or just be prepared for the fact that it might be some neighboor's kids bong.
Either way nothing to freak out about.
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2007, 07:52:56 PM
Post by: Oz girl on April 09, 2007, 07:56:20 PM
If you are a parent who believes some kind of reasonable penalty should be enacted for the use of such things then discuss with them what this shall be next time. if it happens again calmly enact the penalty. The fact that you found this may be a moderating force because often once "busted" kids go to greater lenghts to hide the behaviour so there are less opportunities.
Below is a website with parental tips. It has *some* useful things to say and values a non alarmist approach. Good luck
http://www.communities.qld.gov.au/famil ... drugs.html (http://www.communities.qld.gov.au/family/parenting/teenagers/drugs.html)
Post by: 69 on April 09, 2007, 08:22:24 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Smoking out of a bong at their ages is a bit heavy dontcha think?
No it really isn't.. TSW gave some good advice. Minus the propaganda of course.
Post by: nimdA on April 09, 2007, 08:25:43 PM
My bad yo.
Post by: 69 on April 09, 2007, 08:29:37 PM
Post by: nimdA on April 09, 2007, 08:37:27 PM
Post by: TheWho on April 09, 2007, 09:02:46 PM
Growing up my mom was funny about things like that. I come from a large family. We never got punished much (yelled at, yes) but rarely grounded, never spanked in our house. She found my older sisters “water pipe” in the bushes out front. Years later she told me she thought it was mine, but anyway, she put it on the dinner table and put flowers in it. I remember it was made of glass about 12” tall with a big bulb at the bottom for the water. What my mom didn’t know was it was a “Carburetor” (or choke as we called it). Not sure if anyone is familiar with this nowadays, but anyway, after we all sat down to dinner my mom picked it up and said “look what I found in the bushes today, an old vase” but when she pick it up water spilled out of the blow hole onto the table clothe (which turned brown) and the smell of bong water, which is kind of funky for those of you who don’t know, filled the room. My dad said “That’s not a vase, Hun” and my sister stormed out of the room and no one said a word with the exception of a few snickers. It turns out my mom and sister had a really good talk that night. It didn’t solve everything and there were a lot worse things to come in the future but she always figured out a way to get everyone talking without confrontation or threats.
Just find out where his head is at and keep him close and the communication open. The rest will fall into place.
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2007, 09:05:43 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2007, 09:18:51 PM
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Yeah should have realized the immediate response to that one would be, "Well mum I should hope its laced with PCP!"
:rofl:
Post by: Antigen on April 09, 2007, 10:21:52 PM
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Hey now I remember doing a tour of the DARE druggie mobile when I was 9 and they said that weed is sometimes laced with PCP. So sue me if I didn't realize right away I should have poked that myth with a stick.
My bad yo.
Betty Sembler is a founding board member of DARE, America. I wouldn't trust a damned thing they say about anything.
Exhausted, there's no credible evidence of any causative relation between cannabis and any sort of mental illness. There are studies that seem to show that schizophrenics tend to like the stuff. And there are some showing cannabis to be anywhere from moderately to extremely helpful for certain kinds of mental and emotional problems.
I'm sure you're sincere in your concern, but you probably are falling for a load of bogus science designed to do just what it's doing; put you at odds with your kids. The biggest danger associated with smoking pot is getting busted for it. Hiding a bong outside is one good way to bring that about.
How about this? Entertain the notion that you might be wrong and your sons might be right about this and then talk to them about it. If you set out to make them accept your conclusions you're bound to lose. If you can't discuss it rationally, then just insist that they do a far better job of keeping it on the down low. Explain that if you can figure it out then so can snoopy neighbors and cops and such. Emphasize the legal risks, which are real, as opposed to the alleged health risks, which as far as science can tell are exactly zero (less than zero if you take into account the beneficial qualities for some medical conditions and just general good health from reduced stress.)
Post by: RobertBruce on April 09, 2007, 10:38:46 PM
Quote
That being said, abuse and torture are still necessary, in my opinion
Thats sick Bullfrog, really.
To the parent:
The fact that your kid is making homemade bongs suggests hes been at this awhile. Yes most 14 year olds do this but moderation is the key. Talk to him soon.
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2007, 10:52:44 PM
SECOND, i did not type the statement Robert put as a SUPPOSED quote.
Are you that bored ?
Really you need to find a more entertaining hobby Robert
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2007, 11:37:03 AM
Post by: BuzzKill on April 10, 2007, 12:48:55 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Smoking from a bong is probably better for his lungs than smoking from a regular pipe or rolling a joint. Whatever that nasty shit is in bong water that makes it smell so bad, that's the stuff that's not going into his lungs.
Maybe you should change the water? Ya think? Our bongs didn't have a water component (way back when) but we had hukas, which of corse did. They didn't stink. They smelt like hash - but that isn't what you seem to be talking about.
As to the dangers - Ginger is right. I think it is now well understood that the real harm of pot use is the illegality of it and the consequences of law enforcement. That, and zero tolerance in schools and work places combined with random drug screens.
I would like to plug another of Maia's books here. Her book on Recovery Options is excellent. I had bought it for someone a while back and gave it to them with out having read it myself. (I was to anxious for them to have it to wait.) I recently ran across it, stuffed away and unread. So, I sat down to read it. I was very impressed with the common sense and candor and compassion I found there.
I think this book should be recommended by those of us concerned with the abuse in the teen help industry as "Help at Any Cost" is; Because it so honestly deals with the issue potential program families are most often facing - substance abuse - and I believe many would find it extremely helpful. I have no doubt if widely read, it would cut into the teen help industries profit margins.
If one of you picture posting savvy people would be so kind as to provide a picture, and/or a link to this book, I'd be pleased.
Post by: exhausted on April 10, 2007, 07:20:40 PM
I do realise that at this age they are going to experiment and I am also aware their friends do this, I knew not to go into one over it too, so at dinner last night I told them I found their bong by the way, I then went on to chat about bongs, skunk weed and how it makes people feel, asked them if they really felt the need to do it as it's not a pleasant smell and at the end of the day the experiment is done so let's not do it anymore
They didn't really deny it, it was a half hearted attempt to say no it wasn't theres but then they just talked with me, it was a bit weird as we were talking as if I'd found a stray animal they'd hidden in their room! I made it clear that almost everyone does this at some stage or another and I wasn't going to punish them, but that I hoped they would see how daft it is and won't hold any benefits whatsoever long term, I also reminded them that if they feel pressured by their peers they can always come indoors and blame me by saying I have them on curfew or something - i also had another quick word with the 14 yr old on his own again tonight and asked him if he had any problems that led him to want to do this, made him realise that i do understand why teens do this stuff and how horrible being a teen is, especially in today's climate etc etc, he was actually forthcoming over it and said he'd try and talk with me if things got too much for him, he then agreed it probably wasn't the best thing to be doing and would personally throw the bong away
i finished the conversation by saying it was very well made but bloody stupid, so it ended on a humorous note, he came over and gave me a hug and said thanks for not freaking out on him over it
I want to leave it at that for now, if it continues I'll obviously have to try another way to persuade him it's really not what i want for him, the last thing I want to do is go on & on about it, then it would become nagging ... these things are so delicate to approach, i wnat him to be able to trust me, not become more sneaky in hiding it
I find it a little scary that the bong thing means he's been doing this a while, again that's just confirmed what i already knew - Im trying to remain calm but my obvious feeling as a parent is that it won't be enough and he'll go onto something stronger, i know this is highly unlikely but it scares the crap out of me
Thank you all once again, i think I just needed clarification that i was approaching it in the right way, also what is PCP?
Post by: Oz girl on April 10, 2007, 08:00:44 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I find it a little scary that the bong thing means he's been doing this a while, again that's just confirmed what i already knew - Im trying to remain calm but my obvious feeling as a parent is that it won't be enough and he'll go onto something stronger, i know this is highly unlikely but it scares the crap out of me
You may be right that he has been doing this for a while, but I would not say this is definitely the case based on ownership of a homemade bong. The first time I tried dope was from a bong. It may just be the popular implement of choice with the kids in you area. :wink:
Post by: exhausted on April 10, 2007, 08:06:59 PM
maybe they wanted to get caught, perhaps they were loking for that solution to get out of doing it, I don't know, but if they carry it on, they know they will lose trust I have placed in them
Parenting a teen is the hardest thing in the world ... if it's not one thing it's another!! :roll:
Lucky I've just given up on being a stress head me thinks lol
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2007, 08:31:17 PM
Post by: nimdA on April 10, 2007, 09:55:48 PM
Post by: psy on April 10, 2007, 10:59:51 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I knew they were doing joints beforehand, the weird thing is that they strongly denied that - they were caught bang to rights, but yet they see to be okay about talking to me about this!!
maybe they wanted to get caught, perhaps they were loking for that solution to get out of doing it, I don't know, but if they carry it on, they know they will lose trust I have placed in them
Parenting a teen is the hardest thing in the world ... if it's not one thing it's another!! :roll:
Lucky I've just given up on being a stress head me thinks lol
Well regarding the smell.. Most people find the aroma pleasant. It smells like incense. It's not nearly as nasty smelling as tobacco. Yeah... water used as a filter will stink if not changed once in a while but that's pretty normal of any pool of stagnant water.
But how you dealt with the situation? WOW... could any parent have wanted a better result.. He's now willing to come to you if something is bothering him, he aggreed to toss the bong on his own...
My advice is this: Unless it starts to affect his school work or other parts of his life, ignore it. He will decide to quit after a while. It's not psychologically addictive unless a person smokes it every single day, in which case you would have probably found out a lot earlier.
Ask him why he smokes? Is is because it feels good, or because it helps him do certain things. Some people find it helps them draw, or even study better. On people with ADHD, it reacts differently (especially depending on the strain). Why is it not legal for this purpose? Because pharmaceutical companies cannot justify selling a plant at the prices they sell things like aderall or Ritalin, which are actually amphetamines (physically and psychologically addictive). Most ppl i know at college, or at work, at one time smoked pot, and that was regularly. Most simply got bored of it, or found other things to do (not drugs)...
PCP... aka angel dust, is what was once laced in with weed in certain parts of LA's poorer areas. It happened once really. The weed smells like chemicals. PCP makes a lot of people insane, they feel no pain, and do things like punch telephone poles until all of their bones are broken. Look. if your kid smoked anything that was laced, he would immediately know it. Now that you're open with him, he would'nt hesitate to talk to you, and get medical attention, when before he might have adopted a "wait and see" approach, which could be harmful.
Look... I knew a of potheads when I lived in Ireland. The stuff there is clean and it comes from the UK. It costs more to lace pot, so there is little motive to do so... Whoever mentioned PCP should ... grr ... stop scaring the parents. That's DARE's territory.. (people scaring parents same people running Straight Inc schools (Mel and Betty Sembler))... there is little if any truth in it.
Post by: nimdA on April 10, 2007, 11:05:21 PM
Post by: exhausted on April 11, 2007, 04:31:09 PM
TSW - no way with the plant (they aren't growing it, I'd smell it, I hate the smell) I tried skunk weed once and that was enough for me, I had a massive panic attack and was sick ALL NIGHT long, so no, I won't be going down that route again - oh boy, i remember that like it was yesterday ::puke::
Psy i did ask him why he smokes it, if he was masking any problems, or wether it was just the 'cool thing to do' or if he felt pressurised by his peers, he wasn't too forthcoming with his answers so I thought it was best to leave that line of questioning before he shut off to me ::lala:: ::blah::
I personally think it is a pressure thing from his friends, however I am not willing to blame them, he is more than capable of saying no, I've always brought them up to be independant and not do anything because someone else wants them to - also that their decisions are theirs, no-one else is to take the rap for it
They've both just gone back out, ususally they say they are off to play a game or something but they didn't, I know through gut feeling that they've gone off to smoke dope with their 'friends' ::hrumph:: I just said "Ok, but think about what we said yesterday ok?" Hopefully they'll be a little less willing to continue this as time goes on, especially if they feel they can trust me, let's face it, if I don't go off my head at them, it's going to lose it's appeal a little 8-)
I hope they stop soon, I am worried that it's becoming a daily thing because one of the lads has been smoking it daily for about 4 years now, his parents have actively encouraged it and supply it, I believe to relieve their own guilt of doing it themselves (alcohol also)
Oh and the eldest, just to keep you updated, didn't mention it to them, but he did find out who was giving it to them, met him at the train station and told him he was going to throw him onto the track if he ever does it again :o everyone round here knows not to mess with him, so maybe the word will get round, but if they're going to do it, they'll get it somehow IMO - roll on maturity and realising what twats they're being :lol:
Post by: exhausted on April 11, 2007, 06:36:21 PM
Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
For crying out loud !!!!!!!!!! :cry2:
Post by: Oz girl on April 11, 2007, 06:41:15 PM
Post by: Antigen on April 11, 2007, 09:00:51 PM
Quote from: ""BuzzKill""
Maybe you should change the water? Ya think? Our bongs didn't have a water component (way back when) but we had hukas, which of corse did. They didn't stink. They smelt like hash - but that isn't what you seem to be talking about.
Which reminds me.... last time I heard the term "hookah" was when my daughter was in the hospital. This very cool, relatively older nurse came in shadowing the regular nurse. Vic was recently post op and they were just giving her her breathing toy and instruction.
The old nurse tells her "That's right, just hit it slow and deep, just like a hookah" then the shit hit the fan. The other, younger but well indoctrinated nurse nearly fainted. Vic and I cracked the fuck up and explained to the old nurse, who was evidently on her very first hour of her very first day back on the floor, what the other one was so freaked out about. She said that she'd been out of the business for almost 20 years, but that that's actually the way she was trained to train patients on the breathing toy.
Just shows ta go ya how things have changed over the years.
Exhausted, please don't stress out over this! Really and for true it's not a big deal. Never was, except the part about the vital need for discretion. Instead of focusing on trying to make your kids accept your notions, pick on someone your own size. Show me the the research, convince me that your specific concerns are well founded in fact. Your kids probably are not well versed in the history, politics and science of cannabis. But, give me half a chance and I'll put your mind at ease on the point.
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2007, 10:04:28 PM
Post by: psy on April 11, 2007, 10:42:27 PM
Quote from: ""SH""
I think he was better off with just the pot and not the alcohol.... alcohol is one of the more addictive, destructive drugs out there...makes one wonder who makes our laws.
He who has the gold makes the rules. Pharmaceutical industry, programs, etc.. have a lot of gold. In the southern states, pot was made illegal because the Mexicans and blacks were doing it (some of the testimony during the house debates to ban the stuff is quite humorous, in a sick, racist, black humor sort of way). the northern states just banned it as a precaution since the southern states banned it (hadn't reached the north at that point). Dupont was also behind the propaganda, since they had a vested interest in making sure hemp never became a competitor to plastics (as was predicted in a 1929 Scientific American article). Coincidentally, Robert Dupont was also the first drug tzar. Coincidentally, a psychologist I know was invited to speak against legalization at one of his treatment facilities in NJ.
Go watch "reefer madness" and see the kind of crap they were pushing at that time. It's quite humorous...
Post by: Deborah on April 11, 2007, 11:26:37 PM
The secret history of Big Pharma's role in creating and marketing
heroin, LSD, meth, Ecstasy and speed
Tuesday, April 03, 2007 by: Mike Adams
Most consumers think that street drugs are in an entirely different class than prescription drugs, and they believe that pharmaceutical companies would never manufacture or sell street drugs. But guess what? As you'll read here, drug companies actually invented many of the street drugs now considered to be the most devastating, including heroin and meth ("ice").
Here are seven facts you probably never knew about the connection
between street drugs and pharmaceutical companies:
1. Heroin was launched as a medicine by Felix Hoffman, an employee of
Bayer, only a few days after he invented aspirin. Bayer immediately
applied for a trademark on the term "heroin," then began marketing the
drug as a cure for morphine addiction. It was also marketed as cough
syrup for children.
2. Parke-Davis, a subsidiary of Pfizer, promoted and sold cocaine. It even produced a "cocaine injection kit" complete with a syringe for shooting up. Skeptical? You can view the picture yourself by clicking www.NewsTarget.com/gallery/articles/Par ... ection.jpg (http://www.NewsTarget.com/gallery/articles/ParkeDavisInjection.jpg)
3. A subsidiary of Novartis, Sandoz Laboratories, introduced the world
to LSD in 1938, marketing it as a psychiatric drug named Delysid. This
same drug company also created saccharin, the artificial chemical
sweetener.
4. Drug giant Merck pioneered the commercial manufacture of morphine
from opium and was a heavy pusher and marketer of cocaine. Merck also
patented MDMA (Ecstasy, the rave drug). After World War II, Merck also
began producing pesticides and food preservatives.
5. Ritalin is "speed" for children. A chemical amphetamine, Ritalin is made of controlled substances that would land you in prison if you sold them to a kid on the street, yet the drug is currently prescribed to millions of schoolchildren in the United States to treat a "brain chemistry condition" that was invented by the drug companies.
6. In the 1930's, drug companies marketed amphetamines as over-the-counter inhaler medicines for treating nasal congestion. Tablet amphetamines were also widely available in tablet form and frequently abused by students, truck drivers and other groups.
7. Meth was originally synthesized by chemists and later refined by drug companies. During WWII, "meth" was actually prescribed to soldiers by the U.S., Germany and Japan. Even Hitler was known as a "meth head" by his own staff. By the end of the war, millions of military personnel were addicted to the drug.
Today, meth ("crank") is made from ingredients found in over-the-counter cold medicines. While a meth epidemic sweeps America, destroying entire communities and even threatening some states (Hawaii in particular), drug companies insist their cold medicines should remain over the counter and not be classified as controlled substances. There is currently no legislative effort whatsoever to ban over-the-counter cold medicines containing the chemicals used to create meth.
Also related: Coca-Cola really did contain cocaine during its first few decades on the market (it also contained kola nut extract, hence the name). Cocaine was later removed from the formula and replaced with caffeine, a substance that is similarly addictive and serves much the same purpose.
Once you realize the connection between street drugs and prescription
drugs, it's easy to figure out why Big Pharma is such a strong supporter of the Partnership For A Drug-Free America -- because they don't want consumers getting their drugs from street dealers, they want people buying their drugs from drug companies! Drug companies' attempts to outlaw street drugs are little more than a way of eliminating the competition and monopolizing the drug market.
Ultimately, Big Pharma is just another drug pushing cartel that has the same goals as any drug dealer: Convince customers they need your drug, get them hooked on it, and eliminate the competition.
The only difference is that Big Pharma has been so successful at dealing drugs that it has enough funds to buy off Congress, the Food and Drug Administration and practically the entire psychiatric industry (not to mention medical schools and mainstream media outlets).
Today, more than 40 percent of the U.S. population ingests FDA-approved synthetic chemicals manufactured and marketed by drug companies.
Drug companies think this number is too low. Their goal is to have 100
percent of the U.S. population taking not just one drug per day, but
multiple drugs every day, for life.
Post by: MightyAardvark on April 12, 2007, 05:13:29 AM
In theory it is possible that your son could earn himself two years of detention too but generally the police do not pursue class c drug cases because they've got better things to do.
Post by: Oz girl on April 12, 2007, 06:26:27 AM
If it is a provincial city where the cops have time on their hands they may give kids a bit of a stern lecture while confiscating the dope.
This is why i do have some sympathy for the American Parents who are terrified for their kids on this issue. The penalties in some staes seem pretty severe.
A question for the Americans- Though some really tough laws exist are there some cities or states where the cops are pretty laid back and never prosecute?
Post by: MightyAardvark on April 12, 2007, 10:30:08 AM
Guidance from on high means that in general police won't look to prosecute for possession for it's own sake.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3103416.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3103416.stm)
I've got a copy of the misuse of drugs act if you want a look.
As a side note it's interesting to know that prior to 1971 British narcotics control policy was very liberal. It was in fact possible to obtain small amounts of drugs on prescription in order to manage an addiction with a view to recovery. The MODA1971 was actually passed as a result of intense pressure from the United States.
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 10:36:55 AM
eg- I need advice. Let me advise you about ____.
The sad thing is that you're probably college educated, aren't you? :rofl: :roll:
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 10:44:51 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 10:58:14 AM
Post by: Antigen on April 12, 2007, 11:03:40 AM
Post by: TheWho on April 12, 2007, 11:47:36 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 11:58:52 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Yo OP... it's "advice" not "advise"...
eg- I need advice. Let me advise you about ____.
The sad thing is that you're probably college educated, aren't you? :rofl: :roll:
Get a life.
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 11:59:42 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It's truly AMAZING how pathetically thick some 2 & 4 year graduates can be....astounding, really. SAys alot for universities, doesn't it?
Your statements say a lot about you too.
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 12:00:20 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sure does. I mean, is it really that hard to differentiate b/n a NOUN and a VERB?? ::bwahaha::
Nobody is laughing.
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 12:07:59 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 12:09:17 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Yo OP... it's "advice" not "advise"...
eg- I need advice. Let me advise you about ____.
The sad thing is that you're probably college educated, aren't you? :rofl: :roll:
Get a life.
Kind of difficult to do in a world full of morons like you.
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 12:10:52 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""It's truly AMAZING how pathetically thick some 2 & 4 year graduates can be....astounding, really. SAys alot for universities, doesn't it?
Your statements say a lot about you too.
:cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ::both:: ::both:: ::squeezed:: ::blah:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff::
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
How the fuck should you know, retard?? :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 12:22:09 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Your statements say a lot about you too.
Looks like someone's got their panties in a bit of a twist. :cry2: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 12:29:29 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Your statements say a lot about you too.Looks like someone's got their panties in a bit of a twist. :cry2: :rofl:
Yeah, sure does. What a douchebag comment! Probably a psych major. :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 12:31:14 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 12:49:13 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Probably the OP too embarrassed to login. :lol:
A fair assessment, Smithers.
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 01:00:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""Probably the OP too embarrassed to login. :lol:A fair assessment, Smithers.
I would say so, sir.
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 01:01:21 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 01:04:21 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
College inferiority complex, you are sad.
Oh please.. learn how to spell & we'll talk..shrinky-dink. :rofl: :roll:
Post by: Rumpofsteelskin on April 12, 2007, 01:21:23 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 01:34:49 PM
Post by: TheWho on April 12, 2007, 01:41:19 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 01:45:44 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
(http://http://home.bradmc.com/misc/Spelling-DictionaryNazi.gif)
Trying to excuse your retardation? :rofl:
Sorry, better luck next time; thanks for playing.
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 01:49:53 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 01:53:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
What a sad bitter person you are.
I think not, but what a stupid asshole you are! :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 01:53:53 PM
Post by: TheWho on April 12, 2007, 03:02:25 PM
Post by: Deborah on April 12, 2007, 04:34:14 PM
it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a
wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the
frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae.
The rset can be a totla mses adn you can sitll
raed it wouthit porbelm.
Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed
ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
Post by: vern on April 12, 2007, 05:53:12 PM
A few weeks ago you gave me some great advice when I needed it,
I'm sending it back to you now in your time of need.
I have been/am EXACTLY where you are x3
No you can't make him do anything, tell him you don't want to make him, that is the last thing you want him to do, the whole idea is that he wants to do something about it
All i can offer you is what I did, I decided not to send my kids to a program, even though it meant hell for me, I stood back and observed what I was doing as a parent and what they were doing as people, it took alot for me to realise that these kids are people and i have no right to make their life choices ofr them, it's down to them what they want to do for a living, whether they want to follow a criminal path etc etc, nearly immediately after stepping back and letting them know I didn't intend to screw out at them, but armed them with all the information i could muster, I gave them their weapons, then I let them out to survve, they knew the consequences, they knew they were not my consequences and I would not accept any responsibility for anything that came of bad choices made by them - they started to trust me, they started to respect me, they started to come to me with problems - why? probably because they knew for starters I wasn't going to freak out, or try to control them, but they also knew it might be worth getting some more info from me before doing anything they may regret
The bad choices still happen, it's not a magic cure, but the good ones far outweigh the bad, this could be because the responsibility i theirs alone, it could be that they are seeing me as someone other than the enemy, more likely it's because they don't wind me up anymore and therefore it's no fun, I don't really care what their reasoning is, al i know is that I have loving kids who are working really hard on finding themselves as peple, rather than controlled (or rather me trying to control them) robots who just did everything behind my back, we really are a much happier family because I was able to look at myself and realise where I was going wrong rather than point the finger at them the whole time
Eldest son starts college on Monday - he is 20, up to now he's wanted to do nothing but go to jail and generally waste his life, you have no idea how hard its been for him to wake up and want more for himself than that, but he did it and I am so proud of him for wanting to change things - it took guts for him to admit his failings as it did me.
I hope you can gain something from this, really, trying to control him is not going to work, encouraging him to want to control his own destiny could do the trick
I still want to murder them at times, but to date it has been 2 months since I've had the police/neighbours/other irate persons on my doorstep - as opposed to 1 - 2 times daily, I think that kind of tells it's own story
Don't think it's easy, it isn't, it's far from it One thing you have to understand is you are taking on aot here, this kid is reay screwed up and feels he is going to loose 'street cred' if he cleans his act up, its one of the hardest things for a teen to do, but it's achievable, my 13 & 14 year old have done it The informatin and weapons i gave them were stuff like talking about drugs, safe sex, living rough and the dangers, all i could do for them was to give them all the information they needed to help them to make their decisions, the rest was up to them, I guess when i talk of weapons, I really meant tools (Not guns geek) that wasn't aimed at you but the replyee on that! Meaning life skills, tools to help them work out that they do have choices that no one else could make for them, good or bad, their choices would lead to how their lives turned out, thnakfully they're making better and better choices every day as once they got into that pattern, they found they were enjoying life at home and outside. The recent developments are a concern, this lad realy is runnign scared, he needs to know he can survive al of this and still turn out as an okay kind of person, he may not be bale to do this by living with you, I'd agree that letting him know you will do whatever it takes to help him is a good idea, but it may mean you helping him find a safe haven away from you, but with the knowledge that you are not going to let anyone hurt him in any way whatever, you're only a phone call away Of course you're worried where he is, but calling the police is going to take him home and then straight into a program, it'll be another reason to send him in that hes caused grief to his parents again, he'll survive, honest, all he needs from you is the knowledge that he can pick up the phone and you'll help.....pease let us know how you get on Exhausted (Unable to log in & blinded by thse nightmare codes)
Post by: psy on April 12, 2007, 06:05:51 PM
Pressure from parents provokes resistance to pressure (and all pressure) from kids...
Parents say white, kids say black...
Letting them choose... letting them follow example (monkey see, monkey do) will often result, but not always, in a reflection of you.
But forcing them to do something, even if it's "suceed" will make them instinctively want to do the opposite, to seperate, to be independant, to leave the nest... So... They see self destruction as a way of seperating... Pushing away, because you hold them too close.
but that's my two sleep deprived cents.
toodles
Post by: exhausted on April 12, 2007, 06:47:23 PM
I did need reminding, it's always so clear when there's nothing going on, but easy to lose grip when something has happened.
I spoke with my son this morning and he decided it was pretty crap to drink and he didn't really enjoy it, he wanted to join in with his friends, I thought that was a really honest and mature thing to say to his mother and told him so ... when he went to go out tonight about 8.30pm, I just said 'be good, be safe' as I always do, then I whispered to him 'try your hardest not to be a jerk to yourself' he seemed quite surprised that i didn't ask him not to do anything for my sake but for his
Anyway he came in about an hour later, saying his mates were being stupid so he was staying in - I'm really proud of him for making that stance, it was his decision, he used the tools and skills he has learnt.
He even got in the shower and decided to have a relatively early night, he was competely clean of pot or alcohol - yey!
Until the next time, and I know there will be one, I'm not that stupid!!
BTW, I haven't logged in as a Guest at all, i always put my name in if I can't log in.
Post by: exhausted on April 12, 2007, 07:00:23 PM
Here are the rules on cannabis in the UK
http://www.cps.gov.uk/London/advice_for ... secutions/ (http://www.cps.gov.uk/London/advice_for_professionals/serious_casework_circulars/cannabis_prosecutions/)
although for me it's not about prosecution, the whole skunk weed thing scares the shit out of me (scroll down a wee bit for the mental health problems with teen and cannabis smoking)
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthin ... ealth.aspx (http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/mentalhealthproblems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabisandmentalhealth.aspx)
Post by: Anonymous on April 12, 2007, 07:45:41 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
Guys and gals, I need your advice ...
Things are still going really well at home, the boys are still out of trouble and I've not had any complaints or police knocking at the door, however .....
I was out in the garden today and I found a homemade bong hidden behind a pot plant - I know it's not the 19 year olds as he is really anti pot, he's had some very bad experiences from when he snmoked it as a young teen and is still suffering to this day, he has spoken to his younger brothers about this and went completely beserk about it when I found the bong, although understands that going mad at them is not a good idea.
I'm really freaked out by it as I'm 99% sure its my 14 year old, I have armed the younger two with every bit of information on what could happen through smoking it later on in their lives, they know pretty much everything, they also know that weed pretty much led to my own brother's very early death - the thing is, we had this episode some time back and I really thought they understood how it could ruin their lives later on, we have an obvious genetic mental instability problem in the family and I am extremely worried for them, all of the boys who have smoked weed in any shape or form have ended up very ill mentally & as I've said, my brother ended up dead.
What do I do? How do I approach this? Smoking out of a bong at their ages is a bit heavy dontcha think? I did talk with my 14 year old a couple fo weeks back as I knew he was stoned but he is denying it, although he knows I am well aware - I don't want to lose my grip and flip out on him through fear, I know that is not the way to go about it, so what is?
Early last summer I found my younger son's bong and I took it to him in his room. "Did you make this?" I said. He nodded, expecting to get in trouble, but I just said, "what have you done forme lately?" I set it down and left. I was hurt, but I didn't go into it. The next morning he and his older brother left early and came back with two huge metal drums and a lot of pipes and tubes and gutter parts. I just smiled and kept on working in the kitchen. By the afternoon they had rigged up a completely ingenious system. They put one drum by the house and the other by the garage and then rerouted the gutters so all of the run-off went into the drums. They ran pipes from each drum to double faucets to run water to "leaky" hoses which they laid out in the garden, with the second faucet for extra hoses and filling up watering cans. They came in sweaty and tired, but proud, and after they cleaned up we had dinner together for the first time in months.
After their dad died in Iraq a few years ago, we were all having a hard time. Their dad had been a strict disciplinarian with them and had tolerated no rule breaking, and he was very "establishment". I felt lost as a single mother, and tried to keep enforcing their dad's rules, especially when the boys started getting in trouble a lot at school. We were fighting almost every night and never ate together anymore. If I grounded them they spent all of their time in their rooms. Finally I decided we were all miserable and I just couldn't stand to fight with them anymore. So I went to the other extreme and started ignoring everything. I went to work and came home and cleaned the kitchen up after their mess and made dinner. The boys ate in their rooms. I returned calls to the school when they got in trouble, yet again, but I never said anything about it at home. I hinted to them about things around the house that needed fixing, but they mumbled and went out with their friends. I think the day I found the bong was a turning point for my son. I think he realized that I was as unhappy as he was, and really not interested in being his adversary. I think we all finally realized that we were still part of a family, even with their father and my husband gone. They realized that the discipline had to come from them, from their own choices.
After dinner I said to them, "I had no idea you boys were so clever! How did you come up with all of that?" I think he was caught up in the good mood when my older son explained to me that he liked to smoke weed and draw plans for things. Well that peaked my curiousity as I had never tried marijuana before. I wanted to see for myself what my sons were into. I got them to bring the bong out, and I got "high" for the first time. The funny thing was, we started talking about their father, we started reminiscing and telling stories about things he did, good memories. It was like the weed opened the floodgates and we started flowing as a family again after that.
Even funnier, I confess I got really into smoking weed, and they had to tell me I was smoking too much. I kept losing garden tools and forgetting to give them phone messages. My son's words to me were "Mom, you're supposed to do it in moderation, otherwise you end up like Cheech and Chong." For awhile I ignored the advice, but when their friends started calling me "Mrs. Chong" I thought I'd better clean up before all their parents heard about it and I got into trouble myself. But one of their friends said to me, "don't worry, Mrs. Chong, we keep things on the down low, otherwise our parents wouldn't let us come over here. It's all cool. When you act funny at the grocery store, we just say it's because your husband is gone. That way our parents think it's real nice for us to spend a lot of time at your house."
"Cool," I said, "real cool."
Post by: Antigen on April 12, 2007, 08:23:49 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
although for me it's not about prosecution, the whole skunk weed thing scares the shit out of me (scroll down a wee bit for the mental health problems with teen and cannabis smoking)
Link (http://www.stats.org/stories/2007/do_skunk_stats_mar27_07.htm)
And I must admit some petty, juvenile satisfaction over American researchers busting the Guardian's chops on propriety and level thinking. ::roflmao::
Seriously, though, it's just that we over here have been living it a whole lot harder than you guys over there. I knew it was coming, though, soon as Prince Harry got shipped off for getting busted w/ a bit of the kind. Remember that Di once attended an open meeting at Straight as a guest of Nancy Reagan. You could do worse than to pay close attention to our recent history cause they're pulling the same tap dance on you now.
Post by: Oz girl on April 13, 2007, 07:36:56 AM
Did they actually send harry to rehab? i thought it was just a PR exercise?
Post by: exhausted on April 13, 2007, 03:23:27 PM
I appreciate the links Antigen's Ghost - but I have to stick to my convictions on this, I did lose a brother through it, it was he, who told me what started the whole thing off and he was absolutely convinced it was the weed that did it (he knew he was dying) my eldest, who would never admit he's made a mistake, has also told me and his brothers that weed has made him incredibly ill - the article I posted sums his problems up perfectly ... it's been about 6 months now and it is gradually lessening, but he's still quite ill.
The 14 yr old is always extremely aggressive when he's smoked - without a shadow of a doubt, when i asked my GP why it wasn't chilling him out, he said it can have the opposite effect and to just watch him carefully but not to worry too much as it's probably a phase
My 14 year old just came in for dinner and he is clean again so far this evening, i hope he has really had a shock through this and just doesn't want to know anymore.
You've all been really great about this, it's been interesting reading everyone's views and I am encouraged not to panic too much over it, on the outside that is, I can't help how I feel on the inside, i'm trying to tell myself it's ok and most teens do this at some stage. Thankyou for your support on this :wink:
Post by: Anonymous on April 13, 2007, 11:30:42 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Early last summer I found my younger son's bong and I took it to him in his room. "Did you make this?" I said. He nodded, expecting to get in trouble, but I just said, "what have you done forme lately?" I set it down and left. I was hurt, but I didn't go into it. The next morning he and his older brother left early and came back with two huge metal drums and a lot of pipes and tubes and gutter parts. I just smiled and kept on working in the kitchen. By the afternoon they had rigged up a completely ingenious system. They put one drum by the house and the other by the garage and then rerouted the gutters so all of the run-off went into the drums. They ran pipes from each drum to double faucets to run water to "leaky" hoses which they laid out in the garden, with the second faucet for extra hoses and filling up watering cans. They came in sweaty and tired, but proud, and after they cleaned up we had dinner together for the first time in months.
After their dad died in Iraq a few years ago, we were all having a hard time. Their dad had been a strict disciplinarian with them and had tolerated no rule breaking, and he was very "establishment". I felt lost as a single mother, and tried to keep enforcing their dad's rules, especially when the boys started getting in trouble a lot at school. We were fighting almost every night and never ate together anymore. If I grounded them they spent all of their time in their rooms. Finally I decided we were all miserable and I just couldn't stand to fight with them anymore. So I went to the other extreme and started ignoring everything. I went to work and came home and cleaned the kitchen up after their mess and made dinner. The boys ate in their rooms. I returned calls to the school when they got in trouble, yet again, but I never said anything about it at home. I hinted to them about things around the house that needed fixing, but they mumbled and went out with their friends. I think the day I found the bong was a turning point for my son. I think he realized that I was as unhappy as he was, and really not interested in being his adversary. I think we all finally realized that we were still part of a family, even with their father and my husband gone. They realized that the discipline had to come from them, from their own choices.
After dinner I said to them, "I had no idea you boys were so clever! How did you come up with all of that?" I think he was caught up in the good mood when my older son explained to me that he liked to smoke weed and draw plans for things. Well that peaked my curiousity as I had never tried marijuana before. I wanted to see for myself what my sons were into. I got them to bring the bong out, and I got "high" for the first time. The funny thing was, we started talking about their father, we started reminiscing and telling stories about things he did, good memories. It was like the weed opened the floodgates and we started flowing as a family again after that.
Even funnier, I confess I got really into smoking weed, and they had to tell me I was smoking too much. I kept losing garden tools and forgetting to give them phone messages. My son's words to me were "Mom, you're supposed to do it in moderation, otherwise you end up like Cheech and Chong." For awhile I ignored the advice, but when their friends started calling me "Mrs. Chong" I thought I'd better clean up before all their parents heard about it and I got into trouble myself. But one of their friends said to me, "don't worry, Mrs. Chong, we keep things on the down low, otherwise our parents wouldn't let us come over here. It's all cool. When you act funny at the grocery store, we just say it's because your husband is gone. That way our parents think it's real nice for us to spend a lot of time at your house."
"Cool," I said, "real cool."
Beautiful! ::rose::
Post by: exhausted on April 15, 2007, 04:32:12 PM
I forgot to say that I put the bong back where I found it, but not hidden, it's just .....well there
My 14 yr old said he'd throw it away didn't he, but it hasn't been touched, it's still sitting in the same place, unused, what do you make of that? Is he hanging onto it just in case, has he forgotten about it already, or what? :-?
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 06:58:23 PM
a 14 year old with a bong, hiding it from his mom? sounds normal to me.
Post by: exhausted on April 15, 2007, 07:05:48 PM
I just can't work out why the bong is still there :question:
Maybe I'll have to ask him, he seems okay talking to me about it now
Post by: Dr Fucktard on April 15, 2007, 07:06:44 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
My 14 yr old said he'd throw it away didn't he, but it hasn't been touched, it's still sitting in the same place, unused, what do you make of that? Is he hanging onto it just in case, has he forgotten about it already, or what?
He's more than likely hanging on to his drug paraphenalia for a reason -- for his next high. You see, marijuana addiction can be quite difficult to overcome. Not only that, if you wait too long he will probably start trying other drugs; it's almost inevitable, as pot is a gateway drug (despite what all the naysayers may tell you).
Tell you what, peruse our website a little and consider bringing him in for a free consultation. If you prefer to have some escorts handle it go ahead and make the arrangements, but you could just tell him that you want to take him on a family vacation or something like that. Be sure to pack some extra clothes just in case we should decide that he needs treatment.... I look forward to hearing from you!
Sincerely,
Dr. Fucktard
Post by: exhausted on April 15, 2007, 07:10:15 PM
Quote from: ""Dr Fucktard""
NoQuote from: ""exhausted""My 14 yr old said he'd throw it away didn't he, but it hasn't been touched, it's still sitting in the same place, unused, what do you make of that? Is he hanging onto it just in case, has he forgotten about it already, or what?He's more than likely hanging on to his drug paraphenalia for a reason -- for his next high. You see, marijuana addiction can be quite difficult to overcome. Not only that, if you wait too long he will probably start trying other drugs; it's almost inevitable, as pot is a gateway drug (despite what all the naysayers may tell you).
Tell you what, peruse our website a little and consider bringing him in for a free consultation. If you prefer to have some escorts handle it go ahead and make the arrangements, but you could just tell him that you want to take him on a family vacation or something like that. Be sure to pack some extra clothes just in case we should decide that he needs treatment.... I look forward to hearing from you!
Sincerely,
Dr. Fucktard
Post by: Dr Fucktard on April 15, 2007, 07:12:26 PM
Post by: exhausted on April 15, 2007, 07:16:33 PM
Post by: Dr Fucktard on April 15, 2007, 07:19:34 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I think I handled it quite well - subjecting him to a program after being escorted away is not going to endear him to me, right now he thinks I'm an okay kind of mum and I'm not really into destroying all the hard work we've been putting in as a family.
YOU'RE TAKING CHANCES WITH HIS LIFE!!! :evil:
HE'LL END UP DEAD, INSANE OR IN JAIL!!!!! :flame: :flame: :flame:
Post by: exhausted on April 15, 2007, 07:20:31 PM
Post by: Antigen on April 15, 2007, 07:27:11 PM
Post by: Dr Fucktard on April 15, 2007, 07:33:52 PM
HAVE A SEAT!!!!! :flame: :flame: :flame:
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 07:34:28 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 07:36:17 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
I think you are making a bigger deal out of the bong than you have to. If the communication is going well why push it and make him follow thru with actually physically throwing the bong away (power struggle). There could be a million reasons why he doesn’t want to throw it away, I cant think of any that would be important. Kids see things differently than we do, he may not see that you are waiting patiently for him to throw it away. My advice would be to just toss it, it is home made and if he decides he wants another one some day he can just make another one.
Advice coming from a parent who sent their kid to be forced march and barely fed for a month as punishment. :rofl:
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 07:55:45 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""I think you are making a bigger deal out of the bong than you have to. If the communication is going well why push it and make him follow thru with actually physically throwing the bong away (power struggle). There could be a million reasons why he doesn’t want to throw it away, I cant think of any that would be important. Kids see things differently than we do, he may not see that you are waiting patiently for him to throw it away. My advice would be to just toss it, it is home made and if he decides he wants another one some day he can just make another one.
Advice coming from a parent who sent their kid to be forced march and barely fed for a month as punishment. :rofl:
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?)
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 07:58:37 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""I think you are making a bigger deal out of the bong than you have to. If the communication is going well why push it and make him follow thru with actually physically throwing the bong away (power struggle). There could be a million reasons why he doesn’t want to throw it away, I cant think of any that would be important. Kids see things differently than we do, he may not see that you are waiting patiently for him to throw it away. My advice would be to just toss it, it is home made and if he decides he wants another one some day he can just make another one.
Advice coming from a parent who sent their kid to be forced march and barely fed for a month as punishment. :rofl:
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon.
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
You are sick and twisted. ::puke::
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 08:00:12 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 08:07:00 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
My thoughts exactly when I read it. The sick thing is , I didnt write this. It was someone here. Kinds nuts dont you think?
The sick thing is you cut and paste someone's horrific story to try and make a point to further abuse.
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 08:09:57 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""My thoughts exactly when I read it. The sick thing is , I didnt write this. It was someone here. Kinds nuts dont you think?
The sick thing is you cut and paste someone's horrific story to try and make a point to further abuse.
Its not doing anyone any good to keep the stories hidden.
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 08:11:09 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""My thoughts exactly when I read it. The sick thing is , I didnt write this. It was someone here. Kinds nuts dont you think?
The sick thing is you cut and paste someone's horrific story to try and make a point to further abuse.
Its not doing anyone any good to keep the stories hidden.
No wonder you daughter hates you.
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 08:18:32 PM
Quote
No wonder you daughter hates you.
????? Okay.....
...
Post by: psy on April 15, 2007, 08:27:32 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
QuoteNo wonder you daughter hates you.
????? Okay.....
...
You are one sick, fucked up individual to discount the abuse another person had to go through simply because you don't believe it possible. There really should be a program for parents in denial like you to... just give you a taste of what many of us had to go through. They don't set up programs in countries like Western Samoa because of their outstanding human rights records.
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 08:32:10 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""TheWho""QuoteNo wonder you daughter hates you.
????? Okay.....
...
You are one sick, fucked up individual to discount the abuse another person had to go through simply because you don't believe it possible. There really should be a program for parents in denial like you to... just give you a taste of what many of us had to go through. They don't set up programs in countries like Western Samoa because of their outstanding human rights records.
I already know what everyone had to go through. I had a daughter who attended a program and we talk about her experiences from time to time.
Post by: Dr Fucktard on April 15, 2007, 08:34:43 PM
Quote from: ""psy""
You are one sick, fucked up individual to discount the abuse another person had to go through simply because you don't believe it possible. There really should be a program for parents in denial like you to... just give you a taste of what many of us had to go through. They don't set up programs in countries like Western Samoa because of their outstanding human rights records.
We'll take him; SIBS can help people of all ages!
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 08:40:32 PM
Quote from: ""Dr Fucktard""
Quote from: ""psy""You are one sick, fucked up individual to discount the abuse another person had to go through simply because you don't believe it possible. There really should be a program for parents in denial like you to... just give you a taste of what many of us had to go through. They don't set up programs in countries like Western Samoa because of their outstanding human rights records.We'll take him; SIBS can help people of all ages!
What is SIBS?
Post by: Dr Fucktard on April 15, 2007, 08:46:39 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 08:49:38 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""I think you are making a bigger deal out of the bong than you have to. If the communication is going well why push it and make him follow thru with actually physically throwing the bong away (power struggle). There could be a million reasons why he doesn’t want to throw it away, I cant think of any that would be important. Kids see things differently than we do, he may not see that you are waiting patiently for him to throw it away. My advice would be to just toss it, it is home made and if he decides he wants another one some day he can just make another one.
Advice coming from a parent who sent their kid to be forced march and barely fed for a month as punishment. :rofl:
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon.
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
this stuff all happened to a kid who posted here a couple days ago. are you trying to make a joke? it isnt funny.
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 08:59:42 PM
Quote
this stuff all happened to a kid who posted here a couple days ago. are you trying to make a joke? it isnt funny.
Sorry to rile everyone up, but you missed my point. Many people here on fornits believe all programs are alike, (been a beef of mine). They are not.... just giving some examples....... Chill
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 09:00:13 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""I think you are making a bigger deal out of the bong than you have to. If the communication is going well why push it and make him follow thru with actually physically throwing the bong away (power struggle). There could be a million reasons why he doesn’t want to throw it away, I cant think of any that would be important. Kids see things differently than we do, he may not see that you are waiting patiently for him to throw it away. My advice would be to just toss it, it is home made and if he decides he wants another one some day he can just make another one.
Advice coming from a parent who sent their kid to be forced march and barely fed for a month as punishment. :rofl:
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?)
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
yes he was making a joke, you must have missed his commentary which I enlarged. sick shit huh?
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 09:02:12 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
"Your favorite?" What is wrong with you TheWho? ::noway::
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 09:06:03 PM
Quote
yes he was making a joke, you must have missed his commentary which I enlarged. sick shit huh?
At least I log in and face people here... and dont paste photos of people here and ridicule them for their hobbies and careers they have choosen. A little different when you look at it that way, Huh?
Post by: TheWho on April 15, 2007, 09:06:36 PM
Quote
yes he was making a joke, you must have missed his commentary which I enlarged. sick shit huh?
At least I log in and face people here... run around like a guest and I dont paste photos of people here and ridicule them for their hobbies and careers they have choosen. A little different when you look at it that way, Huh?
Post by: sick of child torture girl on April 15, 2007, 09:24:48 PM
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 10:03:34 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""I think you are making a bigger deal out of the bong than you have to. If the communication is going well why push it and make him follow thru with actually physically throwing the bong away (power struggle). There could be a million reasons why he doesn’t want to throw it away, I cant think of any that would be important. Kids see things differently than we do, he may not see that you are waiting patiently for him to throw it away. My advice would be to just toss it, it is home made and if he decides he wants another one some day he can just make another one.
Advice coming from a parent who sent their kid to be forced march and barely fed for a month as punishment. :rofl:
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?)
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
Why is a kid being Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason "your favorite?" What does this mean?
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2007, 10:11:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""TheWho""Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
"Your favorite?" What is wrong with you TheWho? ::noway::
TheWho spends his time online ridiculing survivors of abuse, a lot is wrong with him!
Post by: Rachael on April 16, 2007, 02:27:44 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""I think you are making a bigger deal out of the bong than you have to. If the communication is going well why push it and make him follow thru with actually physically throwing the bong away (power struggle). There could be a million reasons why he doesn’t want to throw it away, I cant think of any that would be important. Kids see things differently than we do, he may not see that you are waiting patiently for him to throw it away. My advice would be to just toss it, it is home made and if he decides he wants another one some day he can just make another one.
Advice coming from a parent who sent their kid to be forced march and barely fed for a month as punishment. :rofl:
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?)
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
Shut the fuck up, you fucking asshole! These things do happen, this is why we're all spending vast lengths of time educating fucks like you and trying to prevent it from happening to more kids like us.
::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: :flame:
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2007, 08:04:54 AM
Why is a kid being Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason "your favorite?" What does this mean?
Post by: exhausted on April 16, 2007, 04:12:02 PM
The bong thing....it's not a power struggle, my son offered to throw it away himself, i left it there for him to do so, anyways I asked him tonight why it's still there and he looked at me kind of :-?
Then said "so I can use it of course!" and gave a :rofl:
Me - :roll:
Him - :P
Then - "No, I thought you'd throw it away mum" :o he was quite surprised I'd left it for him to do, he thought I'd get rid of it immediately (so we're not quite understanding each other 100% yet) but got up immediately, and threw it once he learned that I hadn't
Post by: RobertBruce on April 16, 2007, 04:54:27 PM
Really there's no point in bothering with him.
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2007, 05:48:41 PM
1 is too many!!
In my opinion
Post by: TheWho on April 16, 2007, 06:55:33 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I think he means it's his favourite lie I believe he thinks it's been made up?
The bong thing....it's not a power struggle, my son offered to throw it away himself, i left it there for him to do so, anyways I asked him tonight why it's still there and he looked at me kind of :-?
Then said "so I can use it of course!" and gave a :rofl:
Me - :roll:
Him - :P
Then - "No, I thought you'd throw it away mum" :o he was quite surprised I'd left it for him to do, he thought I'd get rid of it immediately (so we're not quite understanding each other 100% yet) but got up immediately, and threw it once he learned that I hadn't
Great news! It sounds like you are in a good space with him. He is testing your boundaries of course and will continue to do so, but you seem to have gained his respect in that he threw the bong out himself without any language. Keep the communication going and open, eventually you will be able to communicate more of your feelings and position on drugs etc. without him getting too defensive. Your taking it slow and seem to have a lot of patience which is good.
Post by: Antigen on April 16, 2007, 07:15:43 PM
Post by: Antigen on April 16, 2007, 07:19:20 PM
Alright, all together now.
Who, do you honestly not understand that you're in no position to be lending parenting advice to anybody? Fuck, I wouldn't take your advice on puppy training, unless I were trying for a psychotic guard dog.
You don't know jack shit about this kid, what he's thinking or why he's doing anything, you sanctimonious prig! Now come clean, you really are just the most adept troll ever, right? I mean, you can't possibly go through life being this far out there, can you? How long can you evade those nice young men in their clean white coats?
Post by: sick of child torture girl on April 16, 2007, 08:26:28 PM
As another poster advanced, he has exposed his hidden nature, and he is aware of that. Now he is doing "damage control" by transforming back into the "voice of reason" with grotesquely inapropriate timing.
ie. "you know that's funny?, 16 year olds being raped and forced to eat feces......a child needs an open dialogue and loving firmness, good job exhausted!"
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2007, 08:38:19 PM
children were reportedly hog-tied, hand-cuffed, duct-taped, starved, and slugged by staff.
(http://http://bp1.blogger.com/_6I7WFdsvCY4/Rg_JrF5ofQI/AAAAAAAAACA/hD1mr2dKKAw/s1600/highimpact2.jpg)
Quote
When asked about whether using "3 inch tape" or "duct tape" constituted abuse in his opinion, he responded with this - "I, I, uh, I dont know I don't think I'm the right person to answer that question, I really honestly don't dont know that that would be... abuse. I really... (smiling) I know that you'd like to get an answer but I really don't know and I don't know how I feel about it, I uld probably be appropriate. Not at one of our schools but in the public system, and once in a while with my own children I thought, man, that wouldn't be a bad idea." - Ken Kay (President of WWASP)
Quote
Photos were shown of children who were locked inside The ISO Box (Isolation Box), a wooden structure no larger than a small closet at WWASP's Paradise Cove program in Western Samoa. Children told of their experiences when they were hog-tied, struck by staff members, and duct-taped during their stay. When an investigation into allegations of child abuse and neglect was initiated, WWASP closed this program.
Quote
I was often struck by WWASP's harassment of the parents who testified. For example, Fred Silvester, WWASP’s attorney, was asking Mr. Goodwin, a father whose son was in WWASP’s High Impact, about a comment made having to do with going to look around the "school". In what appeared to me to be a sharp, sarcastic tone, he asks, "And what did you see?" I guess maybe he thought Mr. Goodwin would say, happy kids soaking up knowledge! Mr. Goodwin responded, "Well, I looked in one door and saw a girl sitting with a three inch strip of duct tape across her mouth." Silvester’s back went stiff, as he drummed his fingers on the podium; Then he waves his hand at Mr. Goodwin and snaps, "You just made that up, didn't you?!"
"NO I did NOT just make that up!" was Mr. Goodwin's adamant reply.
It was powerful.
It was during Mr. Goodwin's testimony about High Impact that I learned some things I had not been aware of before. He explained how the staff used cattle prods to terrify the students and keep them in the stress positions. It was either maintain the position, or get a jolt from the cattle prod. They would strike the ground and create a discharged by the kids' heads, so they would know the prod was hot.
Quote
Enough controversy, including records supplied to officials that allegedly documented restraints used against children such as handcuffs, pepper spray and duct tape, led the Boonville City Council on Monday to unanimously reject Lichfield's offer.
TheWho: Why do you think this is a big fucking joke?
Post by: Antigen on April 16, 2007, 08:43:50 PM
But she does this thing all the damned time, pretending to psychoanalyze strangers, diagnosing their addictions with dead on precision at 100 paces. She has no clue, cause she ain't seen the fnords, that she's acting offensively. In her Stepcraft induced haze, this is proper behavior worthy of praise and deserving of gratitude.
Post by: sick of child torture girl on April 16, 2007, 09:13:30 PM
The who is calculating, not clueless, his replies are carefully crafted, his name even seems so.."quintessential yuppie sellout". So self deprecating! Ironic! So appealing to those "concerned parents" who visit this forum, who are essentially, yuppies sell outs.With that name he can postion himself against us in a "political-cultural way" as if we are all mini Abbie Hoffmans not teens, young adults, and mature individuals who are not any more politically ambitous than wanting to put child torturers in prison.
No, he is a representative of program ...and he KNOWS what we say is true. While lower level cult members just drink the kool-aid. Higher ups lie about the kool-aid to get you to drink it. Likewise, Who knows what we say is true, that following child rape jokes with child rearing advice is gross, but he is very willing to lie, manipulate, obsfucate for "the greater good" to get the kool-aid out.
I think he's on the payroll. Most people, even pro-program people like your mom just wont dedicate their lives to this bombardment of fornits stratagem oterwise. Its too weird.....Unless, im wrong and he is just nuts. John Wayne Gacy level nuts
Post by: TheWho on April 16, 2007, 09:39:06 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
During the PURE vs. WWASPS trial some of the jurors cried as they watched video clips of the “Box,” where American
children were reportedly hog-tied, hand-cuffed, duct-taped, starved, and slugged by staff.
(http://http://bp1.blogger.com/_6I7WFdsvCY4/Rg_JrF5ofQI/AAAAAAAAACA/hD1mr2dKKAw/s1600/highimpact2.jpg)QuoteWhen asked about whether using "3 inch tape" or "duct tape" constituted abuse in his opinion, he responded with this - "I, I, uh, I dont know I don't think I'm the right person to answer that question, I really honestly don't dont know that that would be... abuse. I really... (smiling) I know that you'd like to get an answer but I really don't know and I don't know how I feel about it, I uld probably be appropriate. Not at one of our schools but in the public system, and once in a while with my own children I thought, man, that wouldn't be a bad idea." - Ken Kay (President of WWASP)QuotePhotos were shown of children who were locked inside The ISO Box (Isolation Box), a wooden structure no larger than a small closet at WWASP's Paradise Cove program in Western Samoa. Children told of their experiences when they were hog-tied, struck by staff members, and duct-taped during their stay. When an investigation into allegations of child abuse and neglect was initiated, WWASP closed this program.QuoteI was often struck by WWASP's harassment of the parents who testified. For example, Fred Silvester, WWASP’s attorney, was asking Mr. Goodwin, a father whose son was in WWASP’s High Impact, about a comment made having to do with going to look around the "school". In what appeared to me to be a sharp, sarcastic tone, he asks, "And what did you see?" I guess maybe he thought Mr. Goodwin would say, happy kids soaking up knowledge! Mr. Goodwin responded, "Well, I looked in one door and saw a girl sitting with a three inch strip of duct tape across her mouth." Silvester’s back went stiff, as he drummed his fingers on the podium; Then he waves his hand at Mr. Goodwin and snaps, "You just made that up, didn't you?!"
"NO I did NOT just make that up!" was Mr. Goodwin's adamant reply.
It was powerful.
It was during Mr. Goodwin's testimony about High Impact that I learned some things I had not been aware of before. He explained how the staff used cattle prods to terrify the students and keep them in the stress positions. It was either maintain the position, or get a jolt from the cattle prod. They would strike the ground and create a discharged by the kids' heads, so they would know the prod was hot.QuoteEnough controversy, including records supplied to officials that allegedly documented restraints used against children such as handcuffs, pepper spray and duct tape, led the Boonville City Council on Monday to unanimously reject Lichfield's offer.
TheWho: Why do you think this is a big fucking joke?
Guest, Because it isnt that believable to me, I am sorry. I have heard many a story of parents who say TBS was a last resort and no one believed them and made jokes, I was in the same position as they were. So it depends on you perspective.
Is it funny, though?
No, not duct taping someone across their mouth, thats awful. But to believe someone would duct tape someone from the tip of their head down to their toes like a mummy is really hard for me to believe....what would be the point? What do you do with someone like that? I have never duct taped anyone before but I know if I duct taped someone’s hands and feet they are not going anywhere, there is no point to cover him in tape like a mummy, is there? Do you know how many people it would take to remove all that tape? Have you ever worked with the stuff? They would have to hire 2 extra people just to remove this from the people each day
To duct tape someone’s mouth, sure, to keep them from talking...abusive? yes. Funny ?....no.
The whole person is pretty funny to me, sorry for insensitivity.
I wont even touch the typhoon abuse. Has anyone ever been near the sea wall during a hurricane? Would you want to carry someone down there and try to toss them into the ocean? Its nuts! 60 mile per hour winds coming straight back at you, if you manage to get any object in the water thru all this it would be gone for good, no one would be coming back to tell the story. There is no sense to all of this, I don’t understand….whats the point of someone doing this?
Post by: sick of child torture girl on April 16, 2007, 10:08:31 PM
send me a pm :lol:
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2007, 10:13:26 PM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Guest, Because it isnt that believable to me, I am sorry. I have heard many a story of parents who say TBS was a last resort and no one believed them and made jokes, I was in the same position as they were. So it depends on you perspective.
Is it funny, though?
No, not duct taping someone across their mouth, thats awful. But to believe someone would duct tape someone from the tip of their head down to their toes like a mummy is really hard for me to believe....what would be the point? What do you do with someone like that? I have never duct taped anyone before but I know if I duct taped someone’s hands and feet they are not going anywhere, there is no point to cover him in tape like a mummy, is there? Do you know how many people it would take to remove all that tape? Have you ever worked with the stuff? They would have to hire 2 extra people just to remove this from the people each day
To duct tape someone’s mouth, sure, to keep them from talking...abusive? yes. Funny ?....no.
The whole person is pretty funny to me, sorry for insensitivity.
I wont even touch the typhoon abuse. Has anyone ever been near the sea wall during a hurricane? Would you want to carry someone down there and try to toss them into the ocean? Its nuts! 60 mile per hour winds coming straight back at you, if you manage to get any object in the water thru all this it would be gone for good, no one would be coming back to tell the story. There is no sense to all of this, I don’t understand….whats the point of someone doing this?
That's a lot of words to call someone a liar.
So tell us TheWho why would someone go to the trouble of making these things up? Why would they do that?
Post by: Deborah on April 16, 2007, 10:35:11 PM
Quote from: ""sick of child torture girl""
You know more about this than I Antigen, but I suspect WHo is not so crazy as your mother.
The who is calculating, not clueless, his replies are carefully crafted, his name even seems so.."quintessential yuppie sellout". So self deprecating! Ironic! So appealing to those "concerned parents" who visit this forum, who are essentially, yuppies sell outs.With that name he can postion himself against us in a "political-cultural way" as if we are all mini Abbie Hoffmans not teens, young adults, and mature individuals who are not any more politically ambitous than wanting to put child torturers in prison.
No, he is a representative of program ...and he KNOWS what we say is true. While lower level cult members just drink the kool-aid. Higher ups lie about the kool-aid to get you to drink it. Likewise, Who knows what we say is true, that following child rape jokes with child rearing advice is gross, but he is very willing to lie, manipulate, obsfucate for "the greater good" to get the kool-aid out.
I think he's on the payroll. Most people, even pro-program people like your mom just wont dedicate their lives to this bombardment of fornits stratagem oterwise. Its too weird.....Unless, im wrong and he is just nuts. John Wayne Gacy level nuts
Accurate assessment, imo. I question if he ever had a daughter at ASR. Never seen him post on other forums. I mean, what dad defends the industry/Aspen with such passion 4 years after their kid is out, who doesn't have a vested interest? I think it speaks volumes about the effect Fornits has on the public, that he/others have targeted this forum to do their whitewash PR work.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 298#252298 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=252298#252298)
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2007, 10:49:04 PM
Post by: Antigen on April 17, 2007, 12:52:11 AM
Quote from: ""sick of child torture girl""
I think he's on the payroll. Most people, even pro-program people like your mom just wont dedicate their lives to this bombardment of fornits stratagem oterwise. Its too weird.....Unless, im wrong and he is just nuts. John Wayne Gacy level nuts
Of course, that's entirely possible. Just saying that good old fashioned down home stupid and crazy covers the bill well enough. After I came of age, the last of 6, kids and the 5th of those to go through the program, Mom went to wok on Dad. Two months later, he turned up back in Pompano, having left a coffee cup embedded in the kitchen wall. She then opened her home as a prison location for Straight. Once that gig finally ended, she went right to work recruiting for some Bethel type home for pregnant teens--she thought she was helping pregnant girls take an honorable, kinder alternative to abortion.
I don't know if she got paid for referrals or not. I do know here well enough to say that she'd do it for free just to have somebody to pretend to rescue.
Post by: Antigen on April 17, 2007, 01:19:35 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
There is no sense to all of this, I don’t understand….whats the point of someone doing this?
The point? There is no point and that's all the point they need. That's part of the mindfuck, Who. That's why they use pointless work, like digging and then filling in holes or hauling rocks up a steep hill. Pointless, injury inducing work is more effective at demoralizing a person than productive work. Same w/ external punishment. If you get into a brawl and somebody punches you in the nose, it only hurts your nose and maybe your ego a little, depending on whether you gave as good as you got. Put pointless violence, especially the kind that induces panic and real fear of death.... there's a word for it.... what the... on the tip of my tongue and and it's been resonating through the halls of power in DC lately.
And you know good and god damned well people are capable of it. All that is needed are the right conditions, like complete, unquestioned authoritarian power and plausible (to enough of the right people) deniability. That's just about the whole recipe right there.
Post by: psy on April 17, 2007, 04:36:50 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Quote from: ""Guest""During the PURE vs. WWASPS trial some of the jurors cried as they watched video clips of the “Box,” where American
children were reportedly hog-tied, hand-cuffed, duct-taped, starved, and slugged by staff.
(http://http://bp1.blogger.com/_6I7WFdsvCY4/Rg_JrF5ofQI/AAAAAAAAACA/hD1mr2dKKAw/s1600/highimpact2.jpg)QuoteWhen asked about whether using "3 inch tape" or "duct tape" constituted abuse in his opinion, he responded with this - "I, I, uh, I dont know I don't think I'm the right person to answer that question, I really honestly don't dont know that that would be... abuse. I really... (smiling) I know that you'd like to get an answer but I really don't know and I don't know how I feel about it, I uld probably be appropriate. Not at one of our schools but in the public system, and once in a while with my own children I thought, man, that wouldn't be a bad idea." - Ken Kay (President of WWASP)QuotePhotos were shown of children who were locked inside The ISO Box (Isolation Box), a wooden structure no larger than a small closet at WWASP's Paradise Cove program in Western Samoa. Children told of their experiences when they were hog-tied, struck by staff members, and duct-taped during their stay. When an investigation into allegations of child abuse and neglect was initiated, WWASP closed this program.QuoteI was often struck by WWASP's harassment of the parents who testified. For example, Fred Silvester, WWASP’s attorney, was asking Mr. Goodwin, a father whose son was in WWASP’s High Impact, about a comment made having to do with going to look around the "school". In what appeared to me to be a sharp, sarcastic tone, he asks, "And what did you see?" I guess maybe he thought Mr. Goodwin would say, happy kids soaking up knowledge! Mr. Goodwin responded, "Well, I looked in one door and saw a girl sitting with a three inch strip of duct tape across her mouth." Silvester’s back went stiff, as he drummed his fingers on the podium; Then he waves his hand at Mr. Goodwin and snaps, "You just made that up, didn't you?!"
"NO I did NOT just make that up!" was Mr. Goodwin's adamant reply.
It was powerful.
It was during Mr. Goodwin's testimony about High Impact that I learned some things I had not been aware of before. He explained how the staff used cattle prods to terrify the students and keep them in the stress positions. It was either maintain the position, or get a jolt from the cattle prod. They would strike the ground and create a discharged by the kids' heads, so they would know the prod was hot.QuoteEnough controversy, including records supplied to officials that allegedly documented restraints used against children such as handcuffs, pepper spray and duct tape, led the Boonville City Council on Monday to unanimously reject Lichfield's offer.
TheWho: Why do you think this is a big fucking joke?
Guest, Because it isnt that believable to me, I am sorry. I have heard many a story of parents who say TBS was a last resort and no one believed them and made jokes, I was in the same position as they were. So it depends on you perspective.
Is it funny, though?
No, not duct taping someone across their mouth, thats awful. But to believe someone would duct tape someone from the tip of their head down to their toes like a mummy is really hard for me to believe....what would be the point? What do you do with someone like that? I have never duct taped anyone before but I know if I duct taped someone’s hands and feet they are not going anywhere, there is no point to cover him in tape like a mummy, is there? Do you know how many people it would take to remove all that tape? Have you ever worked with the stuff? They would have to hire 2 extra people just to remove this from the people each day
To duct tape someone’s mouth, sure, to keep them from talking...abusive? yes. Funny ?....no.
The whole person is pretty funny to me, sorry for insensitivity.
I wont even touch the typhoon abuse. Has anyone ever been near the sea wall during a hurricane? Would you want to carry someone down there and try to toss them into the ocean? Its nuts! 60 mile per hour winds coming straight back at you, if you manage to get any object in the water thru all this it would be gone for good, no one would be coming back to tell the story. There is no sense to all of this, I don’t understand….whats the point of someone doing this?
What is the point of bla bla bla.. How could they possably do yadda yadda. why didn't you ask him. The point was to pressure somebody, by whatever means, until they broke, from which point they can be rebuilt out of cards.
Look.. When you sent your daughter to get "Behavior Modification".. what the fuck did you think it was. You can't change a person unless they want to change, and yet programs profess to be able to do that... How? Ask yourself that question. Break them down and build them up again... CEDU-esque programs have their ways, as did WWASP and Straight. It doesn't matter how you break a person down... just know that breaking the will of a person takes a lot of pressure, and it's a lot harder than in the army when people are there voluntarily, and want to "get tough"...
You just don't get the con-game do you... Until your daughter actually believed she needed to be there, she wasn't going to leave. There are people who went to Paradise cove, or Tranquility Bay, who say they loved it... Because they don't leave until they at the very least, say it to the parents (preferably on video for the marketing dept.). 90% of the time, This effect wears off after a while, at which point the kid goes "fuck you" and doesnt talk to the parents again.
What... you don't think ASR was like that?
Post by: exhausted on April 17, 2007, 06:45:59 AM
I didn't intend this thread to become a slanging match - what The Who said in reply to me made sense
What he said in reply to the ex program kid does not ... I can well believe the use of duct tape for the very reasons he pointed out, that it is so strong it would completely immobilise the child physically, hence immobilising them mentally at the same time, it seems the perfect way of getting a kid to comply if you ask me, it's a disgusting practise & something that should be left to 2 consenting adults in the bedroom!!
I do take his point about the tornado thing though...I won't call this person a liar, because I wasn't there, but it does seem a bit strange to carry out something that is likely to get the program staff killed, however, no matter what - if this person has been through any type of abuse, then it is wrong, wrong, wrong - just my 2 cents worth
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 08:03:37 AM
Post by: TheWho on April 17, 2007, 08:45:13 AM
Quote
Look.. When you sent your daughter to get "Behavior Modification".. what the fuck did you think it was. You can't change a person unless they want to change, and yet programs profess to be able to do that... How? Ask yourself that question.
Lets say you are trying to get your son to sit in their chair when he is eating and he doesn’t seem to want to. Those times he does sit in his chair you give him praise, eventually he is sitting in his chair during the whole meal. Maybe he would rather stand but his behavior has been modified and is just as happy sitting.
The same with a child playing soccer, when he scores a goal the people roar and applaud so he tries that much harder to do it again. If he passes it off to the other team he hears “Boos”, so he tries harder to make goals and not give the ball to the opponent.
Is it abusive? No….Behavior Mod? Yes. If you duct taped your son to the chair, it would work also, but why would you want to do this? and even if you did, one or 2 pieces would hold him down why use a whole roll? It will take you hours to remove it all.
You place a child into a safe environment and provide them with therapy most children will eventually work on their issues and grow. Sure there are exceptions where this doesn’t work and the child needs to move on or maybe the child shouldn’t have been there in the first place and these are the children that many here on fornits speak to.
But TBS’s are not just providing behavior modification, they provide a safe environment where the child can slow down and focus on themselves without the influences of external stimuli which may not be healthy. Get them back to the books if that is the issue, making poor decisions if that is their issue, etc.
I agree, that if you dig your heels in for 16 months you are not going to benefit from the stay there.
Post by: psy on April 17, 2007, 09:02:37 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Psy Wrote:QuoteLook.. When you sent your daughter to get "Behavior Modification".. what the fuck did you think it was. You can't change a person unless they want to change, and yet programs profess to be able to do that... How? Ask yourself that question.
Lets say you are trying to get your son to sit in their chair when he is eating and he doesn’t seem to want to. Those times he does sit in his chair you give him praise, eventually he is sitting in his chair during the whole meal. Maybe he would rather stand but his behavior has been modified and is just as happy sitting.
The same with a child playing soccer, when he scores a goal the people roar and applaud so he tries that much harder to do it again. If he passes it off to the other team he hears “Boos”, so he tries harder to make goals and not give the ball to the opponent.
Is it abusive? No….Behavior Mod? Yes. If you duct taped your son to the chair, it would work also, but why would you want to do this? and even if you did, one or 2 pieces would hold him down why use a whole roll? It will take you hours to remove it all.
Provided you cared about it hurting. If you didn't.. Well just take him outside, grab one end of the tape, and pull.
Also consider that that particular facility in Western Samoa rarely let the kids bathe. Because of the excess buildup of skin oil, sweat, and dirt, the adhesive on the tape would stick less. Western Samoa is a hot country remember.
Quote
You place a child into a safe environment and provide them with therapy most children will eventually work on their issues and grow. Sure there are exceptions where this doesn’t work and the child needs to move on or maybe the child shouldn’t have been there in the first place and these are the children that many here on fornits speak to.
But TBS’s are not just providing behavior modification, they provide a safe environment where the child can slow down and focus on themselves without the influences of external stimuli which may not be healthy. Get them back to the books if that is the issue, making poor decisions if that is their issue, etc.
I agree, that if you dig your heels in for 16 months you are not going to benefit from the stay there.
bla bla bla.. You think these places practice positive re-enforcement!??!?! They (more often that not) explicitly state that they will "break the kids down" so they can build them up. Also consider that you can practice a hybrid: You create a miserable enviornment, and give them pieces of normalcy for compliance. EG: Interrogations, where the rule of reciprocity is used (I make you miserable, remove that misery, and you feel the desire to give me something back)
You really have a twisted idea of what these places do.
Post by: Oz girl on April 17, 2007, 09:08:15 AM
Post by: psy on April 17, 2007, 09:13:06 AM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
I think it says something that the Who is one of those parents who boos at little childrens sporting matches.
now he didn't actually say that. read carefully. He is an asshole however, there's no question about that.
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 09:26:40 AM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
What he said in reply to the ex program kid does not ... I can well believe the use of duct tape for the very reasons he pointed out, that it is so strong it would completely immobilise the child physically, hence immobilising them mentally at the same time, it seems the perfect way of getting a kid to comply if you ask me, it's a disgusting practise & something that should be left to 2 consenting adults in the bedroom!!
Oh, really? ::whip::
Do you prefer 'top' or 'bottom'? Your place or mine?? :question:
Post by: Antigen on April 17, 2007, 09:31:29 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
But TBS’s are not just providing behavior modification, they provide a safe environment
You just made that up, didn't you?
Post by: TheWho on April 17, 2007, 09:33:30 AM
Quote
bla bla bla.. You think these places practice positive re-enforcement!??!?!
I realize every place is different and I cannot speak to where you attended but on one of my visits to ASR we headed back to my daughters room, which was quite nice, she shared it with three other girls, they had their own bath. There was a table in the middle and she pulled out some dominos and we played, shot the breeze while waiting to join the other kids after dinner for a movie (I think they showed a movie every Sunday night). Anyway I noticed the bed next to my daughters was covered with sticky notes and I kind of walked over and they all said little words of encouragement, like “Good luck!!”, Know you can do it” etc. I asked my daughter what that was all about and she said her room mate had a history exam the next day (which was oral) and she had always be afraid of being called upon in school so this was a milestone for her to stand up in front of class. The notes were from students as well as staff members. They really cared for each other there and the staff/ counselors were always supportive as each child met and tackled each challenge.
Post by: TheWho on April 17, 2007, 09:40:07 AM
Quote
now he didn't actually say that. read carefully. He is an asshole however, there's no question about that.
Thanks for sticking up for me, psy, but …… its very conflicting, for some reason I feel insulted.
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 09:44:00 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""exhausted""What he said in reply to the ex program kid does not ... I can well believe the use of duct tape for the very reasons he pointed out, that it is so strong it would completely immobilise the child physically, hence immobilising them mentally at the same time, it seems the perfect way of getting a kid to comply if you ask me, it's a disgusting practise & something that should be left to 2 consenting adults in the bedroom!!Oh, really? ::whip::
Do you prefer 'top' or 'bottom'? Your place or mine?? :question:
:rofl: :P :silly: ::kiss:: ::bwahaha:: ::ftard:: ::shhhh:: ::bwahaha2:: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 09:48:42 AM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
I think it says something that the Who is one of those parents who boos at little childrens sporting matches.
:rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 09:50:29 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
psy wrote:Quotebla bla bla.. You think these places practice positive re-enforcement!??!?!
I realize every place is different and I cannot speak to where you attended but on one of my visits to ASR we headed back to my daughters room, which was quite nice, she shared it with three other girls, they had their own bath. There was a table in the middle and she pulled out some dominos and we played, shot the breeze while waiting to join the other kids after dinner for a movie (I think they showed a movie every Sunday night). Anyway I noticed the bed next to my daughters was covered with sticky notes and I kind of walked over and they all said little words of encouragement, like “Good luck!!”, Know you can do it” etc. I asked my daughter what that was all about and she said her room mate had a history exam the next day (which was oral) and she had always be afraid of being called upon in school so this was a milestone for her to stand up in front of class. The notes were from students as well as staff members. They really cared for each other there and the staff/ counselors were always supportive as each child met and tackled each challenge.
This is fucking priceless. If you can't believe the stories from survivors who were there of the horrible things that occur, why would you in return expect anyone to believe the GOOD things you have to say about a program? You set the standard that none of us should believe each other anymore, in your attempt to destroy this forum. Thanks !
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 09:51:35 AM
Quote from: ""TheWho""
Psy wrote:Quotenow he didn't actually say that. read carefully. He is an asshole however, there's no question about that.
Thanks for sticking up for me, psy, but …… its very conflicting, for some reason I feel insulted.
As you should, asshole.
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 10:17:20 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Oh, really? ::whip::
Do you prefer 'top' or 'bottom'? Your place or mine?? :question:
Um, de ja fuckin vu man! WTF? :rofl:
Either, yours! cya in 10! lol
Post by: TheWho on April 17, 2007, 10:30:27 AM
Quote
This is fucking priceless. If you can't believe the stories from survivors who were there of the horrible things that occur, why would you in return expect anyone to believe the GOOD things you have to say about a program?
Because people here don’t need to be lemmings and conform to one ideal or “group think”, you are allowed to have an independent thought. Make a decision for yourself, if you feel I am full of crap, its okay.
Quote
You set the standard that none of us should believe each other anymore, in your attempt to destroy this forum. Thanks !
My intent was to direct the attention to “George Dubya’s” lack of education but it came out in the form of insulting a survivor. I do not take responsibility for the destruction of this forum.
(http://http://kris.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/kerry_bush_third_debate.jpg)
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2007, 10:35:19 AM
Post by: Deborah on April 18, 2007, 07:57:59 PM
Post by: Antigen on May 03, 2007, 03:24:17 AM
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/2007/05/02.html#a2239 (http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/2007/05/02.html#a2239)
Post by: Deborah on May 03, 2007, 01:32:05 PM
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=21256 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=21256)
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 04:38:07 PM
Quote from: "TheWho"
Quote from: ""Guest""Quote from: ""TheWho""I think you are making a bigger deal out of the bong than you have to. If the communication is going well why push it and make him follow thru with actually physically throwing the bong away (power struggle). There could be a million reasons why he doesn’t want to throw it away, I cant think of any that would be important. Kids see things differently than we do, he may not see that you are waiting patiently for him to throw it away. My advice would be to just toss it, it is home made and if he decides he wants another one some day he can just make another one.
Advice coming from a parent who sent their kid to be forced march and barely fed for a month as punishment. :rofl:
Oh come on that’s only the tip of the ice berg, lets be honest, no exaggerating here, we need to be credible or no parents will believe us. Here is a more complete account:
No food.
Sexual abused in everyway.
Repeat beatings.
No water.
No bathroom.
No bedding.
Little items I had were stolen, like my sweaty hat and shoes.
My Bible ripped and wrecked.
What little food I got, stolen from me.
Forced to drink cum, piss, eat shit.
Duct-taped from head to toe for no reason. (my favorite)
No toilet paper.
Had rocks and items thrown at me.
Locked in a hot, wooden box.
Forced to eat paper.
Forced to be naked for a week.
Thrown into the ocean during a typhoon. ( I think he would keep blowing back ,would'nt he?)
Kicked down a hill and had logs thrown on me.
Had a chair slammed into my gut.
Obtained more skin diseases than a POW in Vietnam.
Forced to carry "sandbags" of rocks up and down hills.
Post by: Froderik on August 27, 2010, 04:44:15 PM
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Wow....he really did go back and make fun of that poster. How fucking low can a person get?
SHEESH. What a fucking asshole.
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 27, 2010, 04:50:07 PM
Quote from: "Froderik"
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"Wow....he really did go back and make fun of that poster. How fucking low can a person get?
SHEESH. What a fucking asshole.
Yeah and if you go back to that post and then follow the thread, he never does respond. He just posted his bullshit fucking "matrix" over and over and over and over again so as to avoid having to answer for making fun of an abuse victim.