Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Function Junction on April 05, 2007, 12:09:12 AM
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Has anyone taken the time to actually read the court documents? The recent one was highly critical of the plaintiff's. See page 15 for an example. The truth is, all of you know class action status won't be granted. Any further action will need to be by way of individual suits. I hope they focus on issues of abuse because the plaintiff's will clearly lose.
Once again, when CPS or DEFACS went out to HLA since the school began, they haven't been able to find any signs of abuse. None! On another board I made a mistake and said how DEFACS wasn't able to "cherry pick" the people they talk to. I meant to say HLA is not able to "cherry pick" kids for DEFACS to interview.
Let's be honest, on one hand people have said in the past that DEFACS knew all about abuse at HLA, but on the other they say HLA is somehow able to hide kids away. DEFACS has the ability to go anywhere on campus and interview any kid they want, especially the kid making an allegation. So are people actually saying HLA is powerful enough to hide kids from DEFACS over the 13 years of the school's existence? The truth that everyone tries to avoid is abuse hasn't ever been found on the HLA campus. When I was there, there was a lot of abuse toward staff from students, but there wasn't a sign of abuse from staff to students.
Some are saying writing assignments and work assignments are abuse. Is cutting up firewood to deliver to elderly people who can't afford a heating bill abuse? The kids on restriction actually deliver it to the homes of these people and come away with a more positive perspective. Is cleaning the grounds of campus abuse? Then every parent must be abusing their child when they ask them to help clean up the home. Are therapeutic writing assignments abuse? Kids on restriction often need to refocus. This helps them do it.
I remember going back to attend a graduation, I heard nearly every kid talk about the changes they saw in themselves over the time they were at HLA. Two said they knew they would be dead because they had friends die while they were at HLA. Kids received their high school diplomas and went on to college, something many of the kids said was something they never thought they'd achieve.
I don't mind criticism. I know HLA isn't perfect. No facility is. But it wasn't abusive. Kids weren't "locked up". They are actually sent to where ever they need to go by themselves without a staff member escorting them. Has anyone checked on the level of violence in public schools? Please do. I did. Public schools are actually the places that have the most fights and other things people accuse HLA of endorsing.
Let me also clear up something that I read a while back. Someone said HLA was able to avoid being licensed. Treatment centers, boarding schools, etc can't avoid being licensed. I found out that ORS actually granted an "exemption" from being licensed since it was seen as more of a boarding school. That's far different that the picture of HLA somehow avoiding the state. My friend at DHR said HLA is now being licensed because it is now seen as more similar to a therapeutic program than pure boarding school. She said HLA should be licensed within the next month.
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You're woefully ignorant. If others would like to educate you, they can do so in this thread.
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and where can i acsess these documents?
and yes...agreed...oh so ignorant. i dont have the time to educate you. hopefully you'll be put in your place when society wakes up and outlaws all of hitlers latest achievements.
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Do Len and Spooner have trouble paying their heating bill?
Also can you detail what consisted of a typical work assingment?
How about what the menu was like while on restriction?
What was the menu like while on an intervention?
Can you link to the CPS reports that show no abuse was found?
Does HLA ever hide kids away for visitors?
What if the plantiffs focus on claims other than abuse?
Did HLA choose to file for licensure on their own or was it forced on them?
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I never really had a problem with certain kids being "hidden" away from visitors. Those were the kids who were most likely to be disrespectful to the guests. Why subject one of your guests to someone who is going to be disrespectful?
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If they havent broken any rules there is no need for them to be hide away. Kids arent dogs to be shut in the laundry room when company arrives. Besides those kids are paying to be at HLA, the guest are not.
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That's a bit dramatic. If they were on restriction, then they had broken the rules and were doing restriction stuff such as work assignments or writting assignments. If they were not on restriction and being "hidden" away, they were typically on the fields playing some sort of ball game or at the lake fishing, or just haning out with each other.
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"Kids on restriction often need to refocus. This helps them do it. "
oh yeah, the many weekends i served for failing algebra trig really helped to me to attain a sense of logical thinking and a broader palette of understanding for the course. i just wish i had more time in the fields goose shit and chiggers to complete my work. you must be 'shroomming.
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That's a bit dramatic. If they were on restriction, then they had broken the rules and were doing restriction stuff such as work assignments or writting assignments. If they were not on restriction and being "hidden" away, they were typically on the fields playing some sort of ball game or at the lake fishing, or just haning out with each other.
ummmm, i clearly remember ther being a time when we were hidden, back behind the lake, where the rci ropes course is. there was some kind of outsider event going on
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FJ or DennisL (as you've called yourself) states:
Let me also clear up something that I read a while back. Someone said HLA was able to avoid being licensed. Treatment centers, boarding schools, etc can't avoid being licensed. I found out that ORS actually granted an "exemption" from being licensed since it was seen as more of a boarding school. That's far different that the picture of HLA somehow avoiding the state. My friend at DHR said HLA is now being licensed because it is now seen as more similar to a therapeutic program than pure boarding school. She said HLA should be licensed within the next month.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. HLA FOUGHT against being licensed by ORS. Since you have access to documents, take a look at the letters Q&Q sent to ORS stating why the should have an "exemption". We have copies of those letters and there are flat out lies regarding why HLA shouldn't be licensed by ORS. You clearly want to distort the truth - a typical HLA move.
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That's a bit dramatic. If they were on restriction, then they had broken the rules and were doing restriction stuff such as work assignments or writting assignments. If they were not on restriction and being "hidden" away, they were typically on the fields playing some sort of ball game or at the lake fishing, or just haning out with each other.
ummmm, i clearly remember ther being a time when we were hidden, back behind the lake, where the rci ropes course is. there was some kind of outsider event going on
That's when the Ed Cons were brought in and paraded around the campus. Staff hid the students who were on Restrictions at HLA or at the Chalet.
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That's when the Ed Cons were brought in and paraded around the campus. Staff hid the students who were on Restrictions at HLA or at the Chalet.
This is very fundamental. Whenever you have people coming thru your company who can be responsible for bringing you more business you are going to do the best you can to make their visit pleasurable. This means putting your best foot forward and if there are a couple of kids who would be disrespectful or intentionally disrupt the visit, they should be sent on a fishing trip for a few hours. The Edcons are aware there are kids with behavior issues, and on restriction etc its there business. But it isn’t something a school or organization would want to expose them to during their visit. This isn’t something that just schools do, it applies to anyone who owns a business.
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If they were on restriction, then they had broken the rules
Not nessecarily. I had a kid in my pg placed restriction simply because we were close to graduating and he had never been on one before.
If they were not on restriction and being "hidden" away, they were typically on the fields playing some sort of ball game or at the lake fishing, or just haning out with each other.
Not the groups I was in. The times I was hidden away with the other problem children we were put to work.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. HLA FOUGHT against being licensed by ORS. Since you have access to documents, take a look at the letters Q&Q sent to ORS stating why the should have an "exemption". We have copies of those letters and there are flat out lies regarding why HLA shouldn't be licensed by ORS. You clearly want to distort the truth - a typical HLA move.
Yes Sybil, please enlighten us as to why they claimed to the state they were a traditional boarding school where the primary purpose was on education, yet advertised as a theraputic boarding school where the primary purpose was on therapy? Why did they do this for 12 years and why did it take us forcing the issue in order for them to become properly licensed?
intentionally disrupt the visit, they should be sent on a fishing trip for a few hours.
Once again you highlight your ignorance Cindy. I was hidden away many times, I assure you there were no fishing trips.
This isn’t something that just schools do, it applies to anyone who owns a business.
Is that why you hide away your illegals so often?
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That's when the Ed Cons were brought in and paraded around the campus. Staff hid the students who were on Restrictions at HLA or at the Chalet.
This is very fundamental. Whenever you have people coming thru your company who can be responsible for bringing you more business you are going to do the best you can to make their visit pleasurable. This means putting your best foot forward and if there are a couple of kids who would be disrespectful or intentionally disrupt the visit, they should be sent on a fishing trip for a few hours. The Edcons are aware there are kids with behavior issues, and on restriction etc its there business. But it isn’t something a school or organization would want to expose them to during their visit. This isn’t something that just schools do, it applies to anyone who owns a business.
This is called "false advertising." HLA states very directly that they don't take disturbed kids, but hey certainly do - and a lot of them. They just remove the severely disturbed ones so they can make a sale based on false premises. Not so complicated at all.
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That's when the Ed Cons were brought in and paraded around the campus. Staff hid the students who were on Restrictions at HLA or at the Chalet.
This is very fundamental. Whenever you have people coming thru your company who can be responsible for bringing you more business you are going to do the best you can to make their visit pleasurable. This means putting your best foot forward and if there are a couple of kids who would be disrespectful or intentionally disrupt the visit, they should be sent on a fishing trip for a few hours. The Edcons are aware there are kids with behavior issues, and on restriction etc its there business. But it isn’t something a school or organization would want to expose them to during their visit. This isn’t something that just schools do, it applies to anyone who owns a business.
Does "putting your best foot forward" include putting up holiday decorations the day AFTER the holiday just to impress the Ed Cons? Or making the students plant flowers and scrub floors just to spruce up the place just for the Ed Cons?
They would also hide the kids who were on restrictions were prospective parents toured the campus as well. What does that tell you?
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RobertBruce wrote:
Once again you highlight your ignorance Cindy. I was hidden away many times, I assure you there were no fishing trips.
I would hide you away myself, even if we were not having company and most of us understand why you were not invited on any fishing trips.
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This is called "false advertising." HLA states very directly that they don't take disturbed kids, but hey certainly do - and a lot of them. They just remove the severely disturbed ones so they can make a sale based on false premises. Not so complicated at all.
No its not false advertising, we would have to define “disturbed”. The kids they send off to play softball may be in a bad space that day or mouthing off and they don’t want them disrupting the walk thru.
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Wow. And you're actually a father? Your poor daughter probably wanted to be sent away to get away from a screwball like you!
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Yes, put your 'best' foot forward and hide the kids who might tell the truth. Given that Ed Cons know the kids allegedly have 'problems', they of all people should be fine with viewing kids on restriction. But, they can't have their 'pleasurable' visit spoiled with the images of kids being provided inadequate calories and variety of food and given a time limit in which to eat. Then being PTd or restrained if they don't throw their plate away when trash comes by. Might also offend some to observe the kids taking their meals outside the cafeteria on the curb, or being banned from speaking (all day) and punished if they do so. No contact with peers and no dorm time. Some may also find it offensive to see a kid scrubbing a dumpster with a toothbrush, hauling rocks or logs, digging steps out of the side of a hill, chopping wood.
If they knew these things, which my son's Ed Con knew nothing about, they may think twice before referring to the facility. I'm sure they, and the program, would prefer they stay in the dark. They can always plead ignorance. "What? I had no idea."
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This is called "false advertising." HLA states very directly that they don't take disturbed kids, but hey certainly do - and a lot of them. They just remove the severely disturbed ones so they can make a sale based on false premises. Not so complicated at all.
No its not false advertising, we would have to define “disturbed”. The kids they send off to play softball may be in a bad space that day or mouthing off and they don’t want them disrupting the walk thru.
You're a fucking nut, dude. This is not at all how it is handled at HLA. Let me guess, you've never been there and don't know anything other than what you you're speculating, because what you say has no bearing whatsoever on the reality of the situation.
Softball games? Try HARD LABOR. Fishing trips? NEVER HAPPENS.
This guy has obviously zero experience with HLA and should stick to things he knows, like selling children as commodities. Sick fucker.
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Guest wrote:
Does "putting your best foot forward" include putting up holiday decorations the day AFTER the holiday just to impress the Ed Cons? Or making the students plant flowers and scrub floors just to spruce up the place just for the Ed Cons?
They would also hide the kids who were on restrictions were prospective parents toured the campus as well. What does that tell you?
Well you have to look at it as two different customers. If you were having parents walking thru you would want to have the better example (more successful, further along) kids present to answer questions, not ones trashing the place and using foul language. The parents know there are all types of kids there but I personally wouldnt want to have lunch with a kid who was cursing and disrespecting people around him and the school knows this.
If the Edcons like Christmas decorations and flowers then that would be appropriate. Every company spruces the place of business up just before the visit. At our home office we raise the flag of the visitors country the days they are here. They know we don’t always have it up, it is just making them feel more comfortable.
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You're a fucking nut, dude. This is not at all how it is handled at HLA. Let me guess, you've never been there and don't know anything other than what you you're speculating, because what you say has no bearing whatsoever on the reality of the situation.
Softball games? Try HARD LABOR. Fishing trips? NEVER HAPPENS.
This guy has obviously zero experience with HLA and should stick to things he knows, like selling children as commodities. Sick fucker.
BINGO!!!
Cindy hasnt a clue, softball games and fishing trips? I guess those happened right after we all went sledding with Susie Gray.
Tell us something Cindy, what fits your definition of a disturbed child? Are you certain HLA doesnt accept them?
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Well you have to look at it as two different customers. If you were having parents walking thru you would want to have the better example (more successful, further along) kids present to answer questions, not ones trashing the place and using foul language.
So in other words the more broken down kids who will say what they are told versus the honest ones who will tell the truth. Got it.
At our home office we raise the flag of the visitors country the days they are here. They know we don’t always have it up, it is just making them feel more comfortable.
Right, why wouldnt they do the same things to make the kids comfortable?
People we should bear in mind Cindy is an expert on the TBS industry, he did after all send his daughter to two of them.
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RobertBruce wrote:
Right, why wouldnt they do the same things to make the kids comfortable?
Not a bad idea! They would have to put up a few more flag poles because kids come from many different countries (and parents). Might be a nice touch, you should write HLA, Inc. with your suggestion.
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So that's HLA inc is that the for profit or the non for profit one?
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HLA's activities are more like picking up geese feces with bare hands and hauling rocks off to clear land for Bucci.
Softball games and fishing trips. ::roflmao::
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HLA's activities are more like picking up geese feces with bare hands ......
A little gross
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HLA's activities are more like picking up geese feces with bare hands ......
A little gross
But true.
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Yep, absolutely true. A favorite punishment is PT is the goose field. When GI'ing the campus for visitors, restrictions kids were forced to clean up the feces by hand - no tools or sanitary considerations.
See what $6500 a month buys you? A handful (or many handfuls, as it were) of shit :roll:
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HLA's activities are more like picking up geese feces with bare hands ......
A little gross
Oh Cindy were you not aware of that being a typical punishment?
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HLA's activities are more like picking up geese feces with bare hands ......
A little gross
Oh Cindy were you not aware of that being a typical punishment?
My daughter would have left or got kicked out on her first restriction, there is no way she would have done that. I do believe they sent you out, though.
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RB, I see you still have your personal troll. You should take The Pledge.
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RB, I see you still have your personal troll. You should take The Pledge.
You have missed a lot, he is actually my personal troll.
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RB, I see you still have your personal troll. You should take The Pledge.
You have missed a lot, he is actually my personal troll.
::troll::
Dude - you are really creepy.
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That he is, he's just upset at being held accountable, and he hates it when people ask him questions.
Oh and Cindy, they never kicked me out, I left on my own.
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As I recall, they kinda twisted your arm to stay, didn't they?
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Begged me is more apropo, they also attempted to dictate to the police officer that he had to bring me back. He and I both had a good laugh at that one.
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That he is, he's just upset at being held accountable, and he hates it when people ask him questions.
Oh and Cindy, they never kicked me out, I left on my own.
I thought you were only there for a few months. Like five or six months.
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Even one day at HLA is too long....
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Was I?
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Was I?
How long were you there? Did you finish the program? Seems you were pretty upbeat and it was not too traumatic for you if you were able to have a good laugh after you left.
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How long were you there?
Too long.
Did you finish the program?
Nope. Thank God.
Seems you were pretty upbeat and it was not too traumatic for you if you were able to have a good laugh after you left.
Well the cop and I thought it was really funny that the staff member in question first begged me to come back, and then when that didnt work tried to order the cop to bring me back. I guess you had to be there but it was hysterical. Honestly it really started me on the path to healing after all that trauma.
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How many months did you spend at HLA?
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Several, why do you ask?
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Several, why do you ask?
Just curious, so by several it sounds like 3 months maybe 4 months tops? Is this about right?
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Nope.
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So you dont want to give the number of months you attended?
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I dont have a problem with that at all.
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I dont have a problem with that at all.
If you do I understand, so what was the number of months you attended HLA? If you dont mind me asking.
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The Who- Please don't get into the whole guessing who he is thing. It just gets off topic. He is obviously not going to give any information like that. It just turns into stupid mind games and it really isn't worth putting energy in to.
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Cindy I have no problem sharing, Im just curious as to why youre curious. Quid pro quo.
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The Who- Please don't get into the whole guessing who he is thing. It just gets off topic. He is obviously not going to give any information like that. It just turns into stupid mind games and it really isn't worth putting energy in to.
People have asked me what college my daughter attended after ASR (among other questions) and I told them I didnt want to share that information, end of conversation.
By being evasive and avoiding the question it throws into question the persons inegrity, I was curious to see how honest he would be thats all. He has been dishonest with information on the past and was curious about how he would respond.......The number of months isnt important to me.
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What have I been dishonest about Cindy? Please be specific.
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The Who- Please don't get into the whole guessing who he is thing. It just gets off topic. He is obviously not going to give any information like that. It just turns into stupid mind games and it really isn't worth putting energy in to.
People have asked me what college my daughter attended after ASR (among other questions) and I told them I didnt want to share that information, end of conversation.
By being evasive and avoiding the question it throws into question the persons inegrity, I was curious to see how honest he would be thats all. He has been dishonest with information on the past and was curious about how he would respond.......The number of months isnt important to me.
by the way you "slur" your writing. it looks like you have a real problem. picking on a program abuse victim is just one part...
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picking on a program abuse victim….
Ha,Ha,Ha……Oh, RobertBruce is going to like that one. You must be new here, you should do a search on his posts, he is no abuse victim.
I looked back and didnt see the "Slur"?
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Now Cindy do you know for a fact I was never abused while at HLA?
If so how?
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Now Cindy do you know for a fact I was never abused while at HLA?
If so how?
Actually, I do know you were never abused. Someone gave me the low down on you via a PM. Half the stuff you say is lies, but I knew that first hand from what you have posted here.
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You got the "low down"?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Cindy you havent got the first clue, but by all means post one or two of my lies if youre so sure about it.
Actually, I do know you were never abused. Someone gave me the low down on you via a PM. Half the stuff you say is lies, but I knew that first hand from what you have posted here.
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You got the "low down"?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Cindy you havent got the first clue, but by all means post one or two of my lies if youre so sure about it.
You are right, no clues are needed when you have the facts. You really had many people going there with all your stories.... it was funny for awhile.
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The Who- Please don't get into the whole guessing who he is thing. It just gets off topic. He is obviously not going to give any information like that. It just turns into stupid mind games and it really isn't worth putting energy in to.
People have asked me what college my daughter attended after ASR (among other questions) and I told them I didnt want to share that information, end of conversation.
By being evasive and avoiding the question it throws into question the persons inegrity, I was curious to see how honest he would be thats all. He has been dishonest with information on the past and was curious about how he would respond.......The number of months isnt important to me.
Cindy! Your wording smacks of ASR?!?!
::bangin:: ::bangin:: You n-EED to be D-programed, immediately.......... :o
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I suppose all the kids out on MySpace and Facebook made everything up as well?
"TheWho" - you are clearly a very disturbed individual. It's shameful that you would attempt to belittle and degrade the experience of an individual(s) of which you have no first hand knowledge or interaction. You obviously take pleasure in being a cyber-bully (probably because you're a weak person whom one one respects in real life). So what's your agenda? Is it to attack teens/young adults so you can feel better about yourself? Take a good look at yourself because you are a disgraceful, hateful person.
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... FA43678423 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100144848&Mytoken=2DDAADBB-ACAC-4A22-BA8EF94B68003AFA43678423)
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I suppose all the kids out on MySpace and Facebook made everything up as well?
"TheWho" - you are clearly a very disturbed individual. It's shameful that you would attempt to belittle and degrade the experience of an individual(s) of which you have no first hand knowledge or interaction. You obviously take pleasure in being a cyber-bully (probably because you're a weak person whom one one respects in real life). So what's your agenda? Is it to attack teens/young adults so you can feel better about yourself? Take a good look at yourself because you are a disgraceful, hateful person.
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... FA43678423 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100144848&Mytoken=2DDAADBB-ACAC-4A22-BA8EF94B68003AFA43678423)
No, you have it wrong, go back and read some of his past posts.
::bigmouth::
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I suppose all the kids out on MySpace and Facebook made everything up as well?
"TheWho" - you are clearly a very disturbed individual. It's shameful that you would attempt to belittle and degrade the experience of an individual(s) of which you have no first hand knowledge or interaction. You obviously take pleasure in being a cyber-bully (probably because you're a weak person whom one one respects in real life). So what's your agenda? Is it to attack teens/young adults so you can feel better about yourself? Take a good look at yourself because you are a disgraceful, hateful person.
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... FA43678423 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100144848&Mytoken=2DDAADBB-ACAC-4A22-BA8EF94B68003AFA43678423)
A civil person, thank you, its about time. You must be new here and it would be nice to have dialog with people who dont belittle and degrade as you say, but it is the way here at fornits. Pick any thread and read a few pages or wait for a parent to visit and you will get what I am talking about. As for RobertBruce, he has trolled and wasted bandwidth excessively here and my conversation is mild compared to what he has dished out to parents who have visited here.
I like the link you provided, it is similar to one my daughter logs onto. I think it is good and healthy for alumni to get together and have a place to update each other on their lives. Wish we had this after I graduated.
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Oh wow... :rofl:
Tell me Cindy, where did you get all these "facts"? Who gave them to you?
And while youre at it I'm still waiting on you to provide specific examples of lies you believe I've told.
If you can't handle it just say so.
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On a side note:
he has trolled and wasted bandwidth excessively here
And your repeating the same bullshit numbers dozens of times over doesnt waste bandwith?
and my conversation is mild compared to what he has dished out to parents who have visited here.
What parents? Please link to the horrendus comments Ive made, if you can.
I like the link you provided, it is similar to one my daughter logs onto. I think it is good and healthy for alumni to get together and have a place to update each other on their lives.
I think you missed the point of the board. We use it to not only reconnect but to discuss our abuse stories with each, talk about how much we hated HLA, and how horrible it was. It's nice because its a forum where child abuse apologist such as yourself cannot come and disrupt the forum.
Wish we had this after I graduated.
Why? You hated your highschool, everyone was mean to you remember?
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I think you missed the point of the board. We use it to not only reconnect but to discuss our abuse stories with each, talk about how much we hated HLA, and how horrible it was. It's nice because its a forum where child abuse apologist such as yourself cannot come and disrupt the forum.
no I didn’t miss the point, I don’t think, my daughter logs into one. We have a system we all call an intranet which is pretty nice, it connects all our subsidiaries. We can contact each other and talk business, pound out details and strategy without our customers or competition listening in. I think what you missed is I stated I wish we had that after we graduated high school so we could talk about our “incarceration years” (as people here like to call them) and keep in touch. Most of us have lost touch over the years and the present generation will be able to keep in better contact than we did.
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A little forgetfull today Cindy?
I like the link you provided, it is similar to one my daughter logs onto
I don’t think, my daughter logs into one.
Wouldnt be a day on fornits with ol Cindy putting his foot in his mouth at least once.
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Note the commas and read it again:
“no I didn’t miss the point, I don’t think, my daughter logs into one”
I think you read it this way:
“no I didn’t miss the point, I don’t think my daughter logs into one”
This is why we don’t believe what you report here and why they are half truths.
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Can you please grow up and quit wasting our time with your petty bullshit argument with RB? Contribute something useful or get the fuck off the site.
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Can you please grow up and quit wasting our time with your petty bullshit argument with RB? Contribute something useful or get the fuck off the site.
Sorry, my apologies, I was in conversation until my personal troll, started hounding me again and took us off topic. I will try to ignore his pokes and rants. I had this trouble over in “The Troubled Teens” thread also.
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Yes Cindy really really hates being held accountable for his own comments. He considers it trolling.
For example:
This is why we don’t believe what you report here and why they are half truths.
Everything I say is true Cindy, as I said it wouldnt be a day on fornits without you having to put your foot in your mouth.
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HLA's activities are more like picking up geese feces with bare hands ......
A little gross
Oh Cindy were you not aware of that being a typical punishment?
ignorance is blissssssss....
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I suppose all the kids out on MySpace and Facebook made everything up as well?
"TheWho" - you are clearly a very disturbed individual. It's shameful that you would attempt to belittle and degrade the experience of an individual(s) of which you have no first hand knowledge or interaction. You obviously take pleasure in being a cyber-bully (probably because you're a weak person whom one one respects in real life). So what's your agenda? Is it to attack teens/young adults so you can feel better about yourself? Take a good look at yourself because you are a disgraceful, hateful person.
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... FA43678423 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100144848&Mytoken=2DDAADBB-ACAC-4A22-BA8EF94B68003AFA43678423)
No, you have it wrong, go back and read some of his past posts.
::bigmouth::
Dear Evan: Someone just recently wrote a column about Senator Robert Dole's propensity to refer to himself not as "I" or "me" but as "Bob Dole." There must be a name for someone who does this. I am familiar with the editorial "we" -- which some wag said should only be used by royalty, newspaper editors, or persons with parasitic infestation -- but didn't realize there might be a word that describes one who refers to himself in the third person, or I suppose by his own name, as Dole does continuously. Is his use of his own name the same as using the third person and does this qualify him as an "illeist"? That word is hard to find except in the Oxford English Dictionary or Latin dictionaries but describes one who makes much use of the pronoun "he," or writes of himself as "he." -- George Bower, via the internet.
I must admit that I haven't been paying as much attention to the presidential campaign as I probably should have been, relying as I do for my current affairs updates on a combination of tea leaves and conversations overheard on the subway. I do try to read the daily newspaper, of course, but my parakeet gets in the way.
In any case, I wasn't aware of Senator Dole's odd habit, possibly because I had become so used to the Republican candidates referring to each other in the remote-as-possible third person that I simply failed to notice that one of them was doing it to himself. As a name for someone who habitually refers to him- or herself in the third person, "illeist" (from the Latin "ille," meaning "he" or "that man") seems to fill the bill. Illeism, a term coined in the early 19th century, is usually considered an affectation of bad writers, but I think we can safely include almost all politicians in that category.
It'll be interesting to see if that article you mention prompts Senator Dole's handlers to insist that he knock it off. As a rhetorical device, this sort of thing works once or twice, but after a while you begin to remind the voters of either Tarzan or Miss Piggy, neither of whom has a particularly good track record at the polls.
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Someone just recently wrote a column about Senator Robert Dole's propensity to refer to himself not as "I" or "me" but as "Bob Dole." ………I wasn't aware of Senator Dole's odd habit.
Deborah, not sure who Evan is but I think I may be able to shed some light on this. This seems like an old question. Dole initially received a lot of attention (negative at first) for referring to himself as “Dole” and the attention actually helped his numbers during his run for the presidency in the early 1990’s. It was an odd habit but others had referred to themselves in this manner, Julius Ceasar, Stalin (I think) and the author of the “Time Machine” (H.G.Wells) would refer to himself as” the Writer” (this may or may not be accurate, it’s a half memory). Anyway he was well aware of it and in fact was invited and appeared on “Saturday night live” in the mid 1990’s to lampoon this idiosyncrasy of his (after he lost the election), which he did with great pleasure. They have parodied him on Family Guy and the Simpson’s also I believe over the years. It a peculiar habit but fairly benign, some people find it annoying but most get a good chuckle out of it.
He still does it to this day and you can see the little smirk on his face afterwards.
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FALL OUT.........
Shed some light on why you speak of yourself in third person. Are you truly kinda out of touch, or just a manipulator?
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FALL OUT.........
Shed some light on why you speak of yourself in third person. Are you truly kinda out of touch, or just a manipulator?
Not sure what you mean by "Fall out". I rarely speak of myself in the third person unless I am reading a quote during a presentation, in which I am quoting myself (if that makes any sense). I typically use "I" and may have referred to "TheWho" thread as a specific place to post, but I don’t think this qualifies as Illeism.
I think grammar is becoming a lost art form but why single me out? I read post after post, here on fornits, by people who have horrendous grammar but don’t feel compelled to point it out to them.
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No, you wouldn't know about Fall Out. Just like you don't know about a lot of things you claim to have knowledge of regarding HLA.
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No, you wouldn't know about Fall Out. Just like you don't know about a lot of things you claim to have knowledge of regarding HLA.
I dont recall claiming to know about HLA. I have never been there nor know anyone who attended. How does "Fall out" relate to HLA?
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Fall Out involves being locked in a room either alone or with your pg, you are given a piece of paper and made to tell on yourself and others for crimes real and imagined. The counselors are usually looking for a specific piece of information (usually rumored) and will not move on until you tell them what they want to hear. Gosh Cindy maybe you have more in common with HLA then you think?
In any event what I believe Deborah was implying is that its time for you to be honest and accept respondsibility for your actions-namely refering to yourself in the third person or in the plural form.
Maybe she doesnt know asking you to own up to your comments and actions is like pulling teeth, you simply refuse to be held accountable, aparently you believe yourself to be above it.
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(@ TheWho) "...its time for you to be honest and accept respondsibility for your actions..."
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
It will never happen.
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My goodness! I go out of town and come back to find a thread has been created in my honor! Thanks guys. I'm feeling the love.
It doesn't seem as though people have addressed my full post yet. Let me reiterrate:
1. CPS never found any evidence of abuse on campus at any time during the 13 years of existence. CPS can go anywhere, talk to anyone, at any time. They don't notify facilities ahead of time. They simply show up, say they have allegations, & don't say the specifics of the allegations. If HLA is that good at hiding kids from CPS, they need to work for the CIA. They would have to predict the future, be able to hypnotize the investigators to get information, and immediately change everything on campus from the gulag most people on this site portray HLA to be to the best looking facility I've seen in some of the places I've gone around here.
I really don't see anyone at HLA contacting Miss Chloe for a reading, or any people who could qualify for special ops, so I'm not sure what evidence is there when I'm left to read posts from people like RB or DJ that historically distort the truth. If RB, DF, Deborah, and the host of "guests" (probably them under a pseudonym) frequently distort the truth, you can't ever tell when they are being truthful.
2. The petition for class action status is going to be thrown out. Everyone here knows this. It's better to accept it now than wait to find yourself rocking in a corner saying "there's no place like Fornits, there's no place like Fornits." The ruling is public record. Feel free to get a copy and look at page 15. Take some smelling salts; you're going to need them. Once again, this was a procedural not evidenciary hearing. In other words, the court was simply ruling on what could be pursued in future suits, not whether he agreed with the charges or not. That would come later when both sides actually need to produce evidence rather than "we think this, we think that, etc." Page 15 gives you an idea of how he looks at the plaintiff's case. Go to the courthouse and ask for a copy. It's public record.
3. I found out HLA was trying to avoid being licensed. Thanks to RB or someone else who referenced Quirk and Quirk. I'm puzzled as to why this is somehow evidence toward trying to subvert something. The state granted an exemption every year since the opening, it's perfectly natural to challenge this. I don't think anyone embraces when government shows up on your door. The fact is, they'll probably be licensed soon which will actually bring in more business.
4. Work assignments involve splitting wood for elderly individuals who don't have enough money to always pay for heating and cleaning around campus most of the time. I'm not sure why and how having students do chores and actually allow them to witness the positive gratitude from the individuals receiving wood constitutes abuse. I grew up in a family where we all had to do chores around the house. Starvation isn't a part of restrictions, malnutrition isn't a part of restrictions. Kids on restrictions actually experience short-term consequences and are given freedoms back within the week most of the time. That's not the way the real world works. Consequences for disrespect or defiance can get you thrown out of school and possibly in jail. HLA kids can mess up and learn why rules are necessary for everyone.
5. I've heard people claim HLA is filled with violent kids. These are the best acting "violent" kids I've ever seen. I've checked on the statistics with public and other private schools. HLA has significantly less reports of intimidation and fights than the average public school. Fortunately, fights occur everywhere in every setting, but can be stopped earlier at HLA since staff is right there. The statistic that's higher on HLA's side in comparison is the level of defiance and disrespect. That's why most were tossed out of their schools at home. It's interesting how these facts are ignored. But then, it makes sense since RB, DF, & Deborah enjoy being bullies on this site. I feel really sorry to see how miserable you allow yourselves to be. I can see how you try to suppress truth not by intelligent arguments, but debasing yourselves to bullying tactics.
6. I don't think any of you ever attended a graduation and heard stories from students who didn't think they'd get into college, but now were accepted; realizing they would be dead since friends dies in a DUI accident at home; parents tearfully thanking other parents and staff for "saving their family", "saving their child." If everyone could see graduation and hear the speeches from the graduates, it would immediately silence all of the deceitful sewage that is put out by Robert Bruce, DJ, Deborah, Gargling Milk Death Penalty, and friends.
I'm sure I'll be called all sorts of names, but those are the facts. I don't have an axe to grind, I'm just tired of the truth being completely distorted from what I saw. I guess I should be calling myself a "troll" now Deborah? Really intelligent comment. It's pretty clear that the more irritable and angry the negative regulars get, the more truth they are having to face. It's interesting to see how all of you quickly swarm around to defend each other when you're challenged.
I didn't know RB is supposedly being supported by his wife while he's "in a bathrobe." Just a tip, you may not want that getting around on the World (stress on the world) Wide Web.
Good night ::tongkiss::
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wow, you're dumber than first meets the eye. you created this thread, in your honor. fortunately the time for honoring yourself will soon draw to a close...
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Some come-back!!
After hearing that, I'll bet Function will never dare post here again.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :lol:
:cry2:
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That's the only way to respond to my post?
Come on, you're proving my point. Whenever facts are brought up and an alternative view is given, the only thing left to do is call someone names and focus on something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I'll give an answer anyway and hope we can get back to the topic at hand.
I'm not sure who started this thread, but it wasn't me. I wouldn't have any problem claiming this. I think someone split my post off of the thread I originally posted it to. That's probably why the title is "split from court ruling thread." I'm guessing the person was Deborah since she's the moderator.
You must be having a bad day. That's okay. I still think you're mighty special. :wave:
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Yeah, It happens to me too. Deleted posts that she doesnt agree with.
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That's the only way to respond to my post?
Come on, you're proving my point. Whenever facts are brought up and an alternative view is given, the only thing left to do is call someone names and focus on something that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I'll give an answer anyway and hope we can get back to the topic at hand.
I'm not sure who started this thread, but it wasn't me. I wouldn't have any problem claiming this. I think someone split my post off of the thread I originally posted it to. That's probably why the title is "split from court ruling thread." I'm guessing the person was Deborah since she's the moderator.
You must be having a bad day. That's okay. I still think you're mighty special. :wave:
Yeah, it's okay. I still think you're a dick anyway, too.
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It doesn't seem as though people have addressed my full post yet. Let me reiterrate:
Nor have you answered most of the questions asked of you. You may want to get on that Sybil.
1. CPS never found any evidence of abuse on campus at any time during the 13 years of existence. CPS can go anywhere, talk to anyone, at any time. They don't notify facilities ahead of time. They simply show up, say they have allegations, & don't say the specifics of the allegations. If HLA is that good at hiding kids from CPS, they need to work for the CIA. They would have to predict the future, be able to hypnotize the investigators to get information, and immediately change everything on campus from the gulag most people on this site portray HLA to be to the best looking facility I've seen in some of the places I've gone around here.
I really don't see anyone at HLA contacting Miss Chloe for a reading, or any people who could qualify for special ops, so I'm not sure what evidence is there when I'm left to read posts from people like Devin or Steve that historically distort the truth. If RB, DF, Deborah, and the host of "guests" (probably them under a pseudonym) frequently distort the truth, you can't ever tell when they are being truthful.
And the lapdogs have been forthright and honest?
Take a look.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 09&start=0 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19834&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=209&start=0)
As to CPS you were asked to provide links to the reports from CPS showing no kids were found to be abused and the results of any investigations. Any word on when youll be able to put those up?
2. The petition for class action status is going to be thrown out. Everyone here knows this. It's better to accept it now than wait to find yourself rocking in a corner saying "there's no place like Fornits, there's no place like Fornits." The ruling is public record. Feel free to get a copy and look at page 15. Take some smelling salts; you're going to need them. Once again, this was a procedural not evidenciary hearing. In other words, the court was simply ruling on what could be pursued in future suits, not whether he agreed with the charges or not. That would come later when both sides actually need to produce evidence rather than "we think this, we think that, etc." Page 15 gives you an idea of how he looks at the plaintiff's case. Go to the courthouse and ask for a copy. It's public record.
Good idea, here's page 15.
15-
specifically allege the existence of a valid contract with HLA. (Compl. ¶ 99).
Although plaintiffs claim that it is permissible to assert alternative and
inconsistent claims, they have incorporated by reference into their unjust
enrichment count paragraphs that allege the existence of a valid contract with
HLA. Thus, because neither side disputes the existence of a valid contract,
plaintiffs’ claim of unjust enrichment against HLA is improper and must be
denied. Am. Casual Dining, L.P. v. Moe’s Southwest Grill, L.L.C., 426 F. Supp.
2d 1356, 1372 (N.D. Ga. 2006); see also Snapping Shoals Electric Membership
Corp. v. RLI Ins. Corp., No. 1:05-CV-1714-GET, 2006 WL 1877078, * 9 (N.D.
Ga. July 5, 2006) (dismissing unjust enrichment claim where party did not dispute
the existence of the contract and despite the fact that breach of contract and unjust
enrichment were pled in separate counts).
There remains, however, the question of what to do with plaintiffs’ unjust
enrichment claim against the other defendants. Plaintiffs have made this question
more difficult to answer than it should be; their unjust enrichment allegations are
hardly a model of clarity. Faced with paragraphs in this count that “Defendants,”
but not any particular defendant, “have been unjustly enriched,” the court is
forced to sift through all 126 paragraphs of the complaint to determine whether
plaintiffs have set forth any facts to support their unjust enrichment claim against
Funny...I see a great deal of discussion related to "unjust enrichment" (let me know if you arent sure what that means), but not anything that mentions the judge plans to deny the class action status.
You also seem to be under the misguided impression that the denial of the class status means an end to HLA's legal troubles.
Sybil we both know that clearly isnt the case, so why pretend otherwise? Thats of course even assuming that the class action status will be denied, which you clearly dont know for certain given your above mistake.
3. I found out HLA was trying to avoid being licensed. Thanks to RB or someone else who referenced Quirk and Quirk. I'm puzzled as to why this is somehow evidence toward trying to subvert something. The state granted an exemption every year since the opening, it's perfectly natural to challenge this. I don't think anyone embraces when government shows up on your door. The fact is, they'll probably be licensed soon which will actually bring in more business.
And they sure could use it huh? What are those numbers at right now again? 50% below normal? Gosh I bet that really hurts the bottom line. I guess its a good thing we forced them to become licensed then. One thing we should clear up though is your claim that HLA filed for an exemption. They did in fact try to do this, they claimed that their primary purpose was on education, and thus they were elgible for exemption. But they advertised a little differently and eventually the contridictory comments caught up with them. At least with licensure they wont be allowed to do near as much of the fun stuff they used to get away with. Right Sybil?
4. Work assignments involve splitting wood for elderly individuals who don't have enough money to always pay for heating and cleaning around campus most of the time. I'm not sure why and how having students do chores and actually allow them to witness the positive gratitude from the individuals receiving wood constitutes abuse. I grew up in a family where we all had to do chores around the house. Starvation isn't a part of restrictions, malnutrition isn't a part of restrictions. Kids on restrictions actually experience short-term consequences and are given freedoms back within the week most of the time. That's not the way the real world works. Consequences for disrespect or defiance can get you thrown out of school and possibly in jail. HLA kids can mess up and learn why rules are necessary for everyone.
Just chopping wood huh? Well with this new license there wont be anymore of that. I guess those poor people will just have to freeze. Tell me something,
have kids on restriction ever been made to move large rocks or railroad ties around for no reason?
What did the restriction diet consist of?
What was the longest any kid was ever on restriction?
Describe what the calistentics is like while on restrictions.
Are kids ever kept out in the elements for extended periods of time while on restriction?
Do the kids ever do work that personally benefits the staff at HLA?
Is withholding contact between the student and his/her family theraputic?
5. I've heard people claim HLA is filled with violent kids. These are the best acting "violent" kids I've ever seen. I've checked on the statistics with public and other private schools. HLA has significantly less reports of intimidation and fights than the average public school. Fortunately, fights occur everywhere in every setting, but can be stopped earlier at HLA since staff is right there. The statistic that's higher on HLA's side in comparison is the level of defiance and disrespect. That's why most were tossed out of their schools at home. It's interesting how these facts are ignored. But then, it makes sense since RB, DF, & Deborah enjoy being bullies on this site. I feel really sorry to see how miserable you allow yourselves to be. I can see how you try to suppress truth not by intelligent arguments, but debasing yourselves to bullying tactics.
Right. Any chance you can cite your sources on these claims? Also you mentioned that fights are less likely to occur because staff is readily availible. Didnt the school recently fire all of its night security?
6. I don't think any of you ever attended a graduation and heard stories from students who didn't think they'd get into college, but now were accepted; realizing they would be dead since friends dies in a DUI accident at home; parents tearfully thanking other parents and staff for "saving their family", "saving their child." If everyone could see graduation and hear the speeches from the graduates, it would immediately silence all of the deceitful sewage that is put out by Robert Bruce, Steve, Deborah, Gargling Milk Death Penalty, and friends.
Well I actually attended several graduations. I wittnessed many students celebrating finally being free of the perpetual bondange. I saw more than one goodbye speech in which students told parents and staff that they were hated and death was wished upon them.I on more than one occasion heard parents mutter "this is what we paid for?". I even saw a kid spit in his counselors face as he was climbing into his car. I also talk to many many more escapes then you do and Ive never heard a single one state that without HLA theyd be dead or in jail. Not once. So having read your propoganda and seen the reality I think Ill stick with my sewage. It's the more honest of the two.
I'm sure I'll be called all sorts of names, but those are the facts. I don't have an axe to grind, I'm just tired of the truth being completely distorted from what I saw. I guess I should be calling myself a "troll" now Deborah? Really intelligent comment. It's pretty clear that the more irritable and angry the negative regulars get, the more truth they are having to face. It's interesting to see how all of you quickly swarm around to defend each other when you're challenged.
I see no reason to call you names, Sybil is I thought appropriate given your multiple personalities. I thought it interesting that you mentioned us becoming angry at the "truth we are having to face." What truth? Youve neither proven nor backed up a single one of your claims, you have yet to even establish your connection to the school. Perhaps you should consider that.
I didn't know RB is supposedly being supported by his wife while he's "in a bathrobe." Just a tip RB, you may not want that getting around on the World (stress on the world) Wide Web.
I didnt say it was true, it was just something the other puppets from HLA used to claim for some reason. Ask them about it the next time you see them, Im sure theyll be glad to clear it up for you.
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Hi, Robert-the-Bruce, it's Sybil. Name calling again huh? Come on, you continue to prove my point that when the heat is on, you and your buddies can't help but start calling people names you hope will get under their skin. I'll accept this as a compliment. Thanks!
Thanks for the drama! It really made my day much more entertaining. Passive voice sounds so much more dramatic. Threading big words out of the thesaurus in run-on sentences causes me to quake to the bone. Add your bath robe and you're ready to act out a scene from Lord of the Rings. Hazaaa! Excelsior!!
I'm unclear on the link to your lapdog comment. The link was to a page of your posts. I don't understand how quoting yourself adds more credibility. Quantity doesn't mean credibility. I have said several times you spin things with half-truths. I've got to hand it to you. You fool a lot of people into thinking you're actually advocating for others. In reality, you're just advocating for yourself. If pro-HLA people misrepresented themselves on the site, I don't support this. I can understand it since they don't want to be bullied, but I don't support it.
Please re-read pg.15 of the court's decision more closely. Much more closely. Just referencing the number of times "unjust enrichment" is stated doesn't mean the statement is true. Once again, quantity doesn't mean credibility. In fact, he's denying the unjust enrichment claim the plaintiff's argued. He is also very critical of the plaintiff's tactics. They apparently also believe quantity gives credibility since they "forced [the court] to sift through all 126 paragraphs of the complaint to determine whether plaintiffs have set forth any facts to support their unjust enrichment claim against..." You didn't post the latter portion of that section either. Once again using half-truths. He went on to say the plaintiff's can argue this, but they will have a very difficult time proving this in court. Thanks for posting it so others can see what I mean. He is denying the unjust enrichment claim the plaintiff's argued. You know very well the class-action status is going to be denied and you'll only be left with conspiracy theories of how HLA paid off a federal judge or manipulated his mind with "Peer Group Power!" And that which is then shall forever be!!! Ummm...Sorry, I was channeling your mind for a brief second. The dramatics ARE kind of fun.
Anyway, I'm not sure on the numbers, but I'm sure they're lower. Once again, you're assuming this is a sign of wrong-doing. Come on, it's unfortunately the reality that the belief of "innocent until proven guilty" is only found in the courtroom. In the real world, people operate off of "guilty until proven innocent." I'm really not that concerned. As soon as the judge denies the class-action status, business will definitely pick up.
On applying for exemption, I don't think there is anyone out there that embraces government coming to your door. I hate paying taxes. ABSOLUTELY HATE IT!! However, I do it, but I also make sure I'm not giving them more than they're asking. If you didn't have to pay taxes for 13 years due to filing under "tax exempt" and then the IRS decides you make too much money and now have to pay taxes, you're going to try and find a legal way to avoid having to pay these taxes. It doesn't mean you're guilty of tax evasion. The government determined HLA qualified for exemption for 13 years. They asked all the same questions, did the same investigation, and still determined HLA qualified for exemption.
As far as restrictions, that's going to be a pointless road of a topic to go down. It'll just turn into a "yes they did - no they di'in't" (head swivel while wagging a finger) situation. You obviously believe abuse happened on restriction. I don't. That's not just something I believe, that's what the government (CPS) believes or they would have found evidence of this. My friend at DHR told me chopping wood is completely allowed. Feel free to call them about this if you doubt it. I chopped wood when I was young as well. 13 years without a finding of abuse. Oh wait! That's right. HLA bought off CPS, or better yet, HLA has supernatural or clandestine powers and abilities to foil the investigators. If you know of a positive finding of abuse by CPS, I'll await your reference to that report. We'll see how long that takes. I'll be sure to keep track of the days (today is day one), so you better start cracking!
"I saw more than one goodbye speech in which students told parents and staff that they were hated and death was wished upon them".
Okay, so you probably saw two rather than one. I have no doubt you probably saw some of these things. However, you state it in a way to give the impression this is the norm. You know very well it isn't. Most of the kids choose to get better, some don't. That doesn't mean HLA is a bad place. It simply means they chose to use the tools HLA offered to benefit their lives. You would have seen this if you would have graduated. If you saw the student that spit in the face of their counselor as a negative, why do you spit on people verbally on this website? What counselor was that by the way? I'd like to look them up and call them to find out if it's true or just another dramatic statement.
I saw some kids that had a very half-hearted graduation speech, but overwhelming majority of them and their parents talked about how they found hope when they thought it was gone. Kids that didn't think they would get into college were accepted. I remember what it's like to get an acceptance letter. You feel like your on cloud 9. Didn't you feel the same way when a college sent you an acceptance letter? It's still great to hear someone say they would have died if they hadn't gone to HLA.
Make sure you give your wife a big hug and foot rub. Supporting a husband is a tough job. Let's see. Where is that witty emoticon? Oh here it is. I really prefer this one though courtesy of Deborah
Good night! I've got to get sleep so I can go to my job. Peace!
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Thank you "Function J." That is, by far, the most accurate, well-stated, and grammatically correct (unfortunately, here, that is not saying a lot) statement regarding the reality of HLA that I have read on this site. This is my first and last time visiting this electronic swamp of post-adolescent, misplaced frustrations. "Function", I would sincerely suggest to you that there is no further need to waste your valuable time with these poor, misguided malcontents. Leave them to their foolishness and bitter delusions.
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Hi, Robert-the-Bruce, it's Sybil. Name calling again huh? Come on, you continue to prove my point that when the heat is on, you and your buddies can't help but start calling people names you hope will get under their skin. I'll accept this as a compliment. Thanks!
Not at all, I thought I'd made this clear and apologize for any confusion. I call you Sybil because youve posted under so many user names here it appears as if you suffer from MPD. That being the case I thought Sybil would be apropo. Unless of course youve not read the book? I believe there's a movie version of it as well with Sally Field. I considered using Tyler Durden, but Sybil seemed more fitting.
Thanks for the drama! It really made my day much more entertaining. Passive voice sounds so much more dramatic. Threading big words out of the thesaurus in run-on sentences causes me to quake to the bone. Add your bath robe and you're ready to act out a scene from Lord of the Rings. Hazaaa! Excelsior!!
So you talked with your co workers and verified the bathrobe thing then? Super. It amazes me that even with all the financial woes hla is suffering from they can still devote so much resources to spying on people apparently unrelated to this issue and making threatening phone calls in the middle of the night.
I'm unclear on the link to your lapdog comment. The link was to a page of your posts. I don't understand how quoting yourself adds more credibility. Quantity doesn't mean credibility. I have said several times you spin things with half-truths. I've got to hand it to you. You fool a lot of people into thinking you're actually advocating for others. In reality, you're just advocating for yourself. If pro-HLA people misrepresented themselves on the site, I don't support this. I can understand it since they don't want to be bullied, but I don't support it.
Oh no Sybil you misunderstood. See those arent posts of me quoting myself, its me quoting hla staff members. People who were posting from the hla server either trying to abuse other posters or fishing for information. On occasion they pretended to be students in order to try and earn our trust. Dont take my word for it though, ask your coworkers.
Please re-read pg.15 of the court's decision more closely. Much more closely. Just referencing the number of times "unjust enrichment" is stated doesn't mean the statement is true. Once again, quantity doesn't mean credibility. In fact, he's denying the unjust enrichment claim the plaintiff's argued. He is also very critical of the plaintiff's tactics. They apparently also believe quantity gives credibility since they "forced [the court] to sift through all 126 paragraphs of the complaint to determine whether plaintiffs have set forth any facts to support their unjust enrichment claim against..." You didn't post the latter portion of that section either. Once again using half-truths. He went on to say the plaintiff's can argue this, but they will have a very difficult time proving this in court. Thanks for posting it so others can see what I mean. He is denying the unjust enrichment claim the plaintiff's argued.
So youre basing your belife that the class status will be dismissed soley on the few paragraphs on page 15? Gotta clutch at any straw availible huh?
You know very well the class-action status is going to be denied and you'll only be left with conspiracy theories of how HLA paid off a federal judge or manipulated his mind with "Peer Group Power!" And that which is then shall forever be!!! Ummm...Sorry, I was channeling your mind for a brief second. The dramatics ARE kind of fun.
Neither one of us knows how the judge is going to rule. What we do know is that if he does deny the class status then the only real consequence will be you all spending alot more time in the court room. That and writting alot of letters begging these parents to settle. I'll leave the conspiracy theories to your boss, he seems to enjoy finding enemies everywhere.
Anyway, I'm not sure on the numbers, but I'm sure they're lower. Once again, you're assuming this is a sign of wrong-doing.
Well its certainlly not a sign of right-doing now is it? Perhaps its time you all accepted some respondsibility and stopped trying to blame all your problems on others, namely us.
Come on, it's unfortunately the reality that the belief of "innocent until proven guilty" is only found in the courtroom. In the real world, people operate off of "guilty until proven innocent." I'm really not that concerned. As soon as the judge denies the class-action status, business will definitely pick up.
Definitely? Well consider that Nicole's faux paus is still floating around out there, the school's reputation has been destroyed, the plantiffs arent going away no matter what, and the school is broke and cant get any new loans. Things have looked better Sybil.
On applying for exemption, I don't think there is anyone out there that embraces government coming to your door. I hate paying taxes. ABSOLUTELY HATE IT!! However, I do it, but I also make sure I'm not giving them more than they're asking. If you didn't have to pay taxes for 13 years due to filing under "tax exempt" and then the IRS decides you make too much money and now have to pay taxes, you're going to try and find a legal way to avoid having to pay these taxes. It doesn't mean you're guilty of tax evasion. The government determined HLA qualified for exemption for 13 years. They asked all the same questions, did the same investigation, and still determined HLA qualified for exemption.
Then what changed? HLA claimed for 13 years their primary purpose was on education, and not therapy. They advertised quite differently. If youre stating that ORS did the same investigation every year (they didnt) then what suddenly changed? I mean how does a school go from after 13 years of claiming to the state that they are a bona fide boarding school where the primary purpose was on education, and no service planning or casework services being provided, to suddenly something else entirely? What changed?
As far as restrictions, that's going to be a pointless road of a topic to go down. It'll just turn into a "yes they did - no they di'in't" (head swivel while wagging a finger) situation. You obviously believe abuse happened on restriction. I don't.
Yeah...the thing is I was on restrictions, I was abused. You weren't. Therefore my testimony bears more weight than yours. Sorry. :-?
That's not just something I believe, that's what the government (CPS) believes or they would have found evidence of this.
Then prove it, provide the reports showing that. As much as you mention them youre apparently intimately familiar with the things. So show them.
My friend at DHR told me chopping wood is completely allowed. Feel free to call them about this if you doubt it.
I have, and it isnt. At least it wont be when that new licenses kicks in.
I chopped wood when I was young as well. 13 years without a finding of abuse. Oh wait! That's right. HLA bought off CPS, or better yet, HLA has supernatural or clandestine powers and abilities to foil the investigators. If you know of a positive finding of abuse by CPS, I'll await your reference to that report. We'll see how long that takes. I'll be sure to keep track of the days (today is day one), so you better start cracking!
Well it looks like you have more in common with Who then we thought. Do a little quick back reading and see if you can find out how many times I claimed CPS had gone into HLA and found kids being abused, or even not being abused. Or better yet I'll save you some time. I've never mentioned it . In fact the only time I know of that there was any sort of on campus investigation by a CPS type department was when DEFACS came in some months back. Even with that I have no clue what the outcome of the investigation was, nor what the original complaint was about. You on the other hand have claimed multiple times now that CPS has come in on more than one occasion and never found a single case of kids being abused. I'm eager to see if you can back that up. I had no idea that CPS had been called in so many times. This should raise some red flags and I look forward to you providing those reports you seem to know so much about. We'll see how long that takes. I'll be sure to keep track of the days (today is day one), so you better start cracking!
Okay, so you probably saw two rather than one.
Several more but that's okay. The number itself is inconsequential.
I have no doubt you probably saw some of these things. However, you state it in a way to give the impression this is the norm.
It was in the graduations I attended.
You know very well it isn't.
So says you.
Most of the kids choose to get better, some don't.
Then why isnt there any sort of independent evidence proving this claim. Come on you guys have had 13 years. What's the hold up? Tell me something else to; What about the kids that didnt have anything wrong with them to begin with?
That doesn't mean HLA is a bad place. It simply means they chose to use the tools HLA offered to benefit their lives.
Which tools? The axes we used to chop wood for the staff, or the tooth brushes we used to clean the dumpsters?
You would have seen this if you would have graduated.
My life is a great deal better for having not stayed in that shit pit a minute longer than I had to. I am by no means alone in this thought either.
If you saw the student that spit in the face of their counselor as a negative, why do you spit on people verbally on this website?
Who said I saw it as a negative?
What counselor was that by the way? I'd like to look them up and call them to find out if it's true or just another dramatic statement
It's true. I'll tell you the persons name just as soon as you can provide the reports from CPS. Quid pro quo and all, hurry up the clock is ticking.
I saw some kids that had a very half-hearted graduation speech, but overwhelming majority of them and their parents talked about how they found hope when they thought it was gone. Kids that didn't think they would get into college were accepted. I remember what it's like to get an acceptance letter. You feel like your on cloud 9. Didn't you feel the same way when a college sent you an acceptance letter? It's still great to hear someone say they would have died if they hadn't gone to HLA.
I'm sure its not as many as hear from you all "Without HLA youll soon be dead or in jail." Of course most of us who broke out early are neither dead nor in jail so it really is great to reflect back on that and laugh at our counselors stupidity.
Make sure you give your wife a big hug and foot rub. Supporting a husband is a tough job. Let's see. Where is that witty emoticon? Oh here it is. I really prefer this one though courtesy of Deborah
My wife and I actually both work, but I'll give her a big hug anyway, just to show her I care. :wink:
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FJ: You contend that the students on restriction were asked to complete a noble and honorable task by chopping firewood for those in need. I do recall an incident where a staff member assigned to restrictions named Dee had the students who were misbehaving wade out into the middle of the lake for the purpose of doing some exercise. I also distinctly remember this particular event occuring in the winter time when it was quite cold out. For the record I don't recall any disciplinary action being taken against the individual for this event.Since you were there during this time period please explain the purpose or logic behind this. To most folks this would appear to be punitive in nature which is in direct conflict with any true therapuetic model. Please note the lack of insults or misleading questions or "fluff" in my post. I think this is a pretty fair and direct question. Thanks in advance for your response.
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It appears that our MPD friend Sybil would prefer to respond with a simple "no comment" to my restriction questions. I in an effort to inform the public I will undertake the task of answering the questions myself. Please bear in mind the responses are based on my experiences from several years ago, things may have changed since then. However recent reports would seem to discount that possibility.
have kids on restriction ever been made to move large rocks or railroad ties around for no reason?
Quite frequently. Restrictions kids were made to do the general upkeep of the school both inside and out, cleaning, general landscaping et cet. When work projects could not be found the kids were made to do pointless tasks such as moving rail road ties back and forth or carrying large rocks around the lake.
What did the restriction diet consist of?
Breakfast: Single servings of cereal, and a carton of milk. Occasionaly a piece of fruit would be provided. Depending on the restrictions staff mood would determine whether seconds would be allowed.
Lunch: (2) Sandwiches, either bologna or cheese (for those kids who had dietary restrictions) and a bowl of soup. Lunch was served in the luxurious lower left field where you were accompanied by a large amount of goose shit.
Dinner: (2) Sandwiches, either bologna or cheese (for those kids who had dietary restrictions) and a bowl of soup. Soup would be made at the beginning of the week and made to last seven days. Dinner was generally served at the Chalet.
Keep in mind when looking at this diet many kids were on it day in and day out for months at a time. What's more these kids are doing at least three hours of work assingments a day, and 1-2 hours of calistenics. The remainder of the day was spent in either class/reals, or at the Chalet several hours into the night, doing homework or writting assingments. On the weekend the time spent doing work assingments went up to about 9 hours and calistenics went to about 3.
Now I took the liberty of running this award winning menu through a calorie counter.
Here's what it came back with:
Bolonga (pork, non lean) 1 slice-57 calories.
White Bread- I slice 24 calories without the crust.
Cereal ( the most common type we ate was rasin bran) I serving-187 calories.
Milk (small carton) 22 calories.
Cheese (American yellow) 68 calories.
Apple (the most common type of fruit we were given) 55 calories.
Soup (vegetable, again the most common kind we were given) 145 calories.
So adding all this up and it shows us that depending on a number of variables each kid was getting approximately 600-700 calories a day. This is at the same time as we doing much more physical activity then usual as well.
These numbers can all be verified through this website:
http://www.thecaloriecounter.com/ (http://www.thecaloriecounter.com/)
Now according to this website:
http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/nutritio ... ments.html (http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/nutrition/calorie_requirements.html)
The average boy age 11-14 requires 2500 calories per day.
The average boy age 15-18 requires 3000 calories per day.
The average girl age 11-14 requires 2200 calories per day.
The average girl age 15-18 requires 2200 calories per day.
So it appears there was quite a defiancy for those of us who suffered under this policy.
What was the longest any kid was ever on restriction?
I don't know what the longest was, I do know that many kids stayed on for months at a time. One kid in particular was on for eight months straight without any sort of break.
Describe what the calistentics is like while on restrictions.
An hour or two of routine exercises lead by army rangers and extended runs/suicides up hills. Breaks were allowed on occasion provided the kid remained in the "front leaning rest position" the entire time.
Are kids ever kept out in the elements for extended periods of time while on restriction?
Without question. The Chalet itself was built for just that reason. Prior to it being built the kids were kept in a greenhouse at the very least. However this was seen as too accomadating and so the chalet, a pavillion of sorts with no walls naturally (no tables or chairs either) was built on the far side of the lake. There the kids sat year round for eating dinner, and homework/writting assignments. They would generally be kept out there until lights out time in the dorms. Of course most work assingments/calistenics and lunch/breakfast were held outside as well.
Do the kids ever do work that personally benefits the staff at HLA?
Yes, they were given large amounts of the chopped wood.
Is withholding contact between the student and his/her family theraputic?
Probably not. This was in all likelyhood done to prevent the kids from discussing exactly what it was that was going on while on restrictions. It was only after the restriction was over and all the writting assingments were complete (addmissions of guilt) that the student was allowed to talk to their parent again.
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okay ill bite, no pun intended....
when I add up the calories, based on what you listed, I get 1,029 calories based on the bologna sandwiches and assuming one slice per sandwich. Now, with the cheese version, I get 1,073 calories. What were the drinks at lunch and dinner? water ? Also, there are other variables. The brand/type of white bread, the size of the soup cup/bowl, the brand of soup, whether or not the milk was whole, lowfat or nonfat, etc, etc. well you get my drift. I know you did your fair share of research, but your math doesnt add up, just thought Id point that out :)
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When one actually looks up these items, they are inaccurate here is what I came up with instead :
One slice thin white bread with crust - 53
Kellogs raisin bran - 1 cup - 195 calories
1 cup lowfat white milk - 102
1 slice american cheese - 93
1 slice regular beef and pork bologna - 86
1 cup vegetarian canned vegetable soup - 72
assuming water with meals and 2 apples a day, this comes out to 1,275 calories for the cheese diet and 1,247 for the bologna diet. If 2 slices of meat or cheese were on each sandwich, or if milk was served with lunch or dinner, or more than 8 oz of soup was served each time, these numbers would go up.
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My God bullfrog you were right about something. Good for you! It was bound to happen sometime. It appears I forgot to add the soup in twice. Thank you for pointing out the mistake. I'll edit my numbers immediatly.
Of course remember when you used to claim there was no restriction diet? Ever.
I'm glad to see youve finally accepted the truth.
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I can see FJ’s point. I am not a nutritionist but just scanning your list of calories indicates something is wrong (half truths maybe?). Only 22 calories in milk? Isnt that like 2 table spoons of 1% low fat milk, that wouldn’t even wet the surface of the cereal.
Again, I may be wrong, (this isn’t my area) but your numbers don’t look right.
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Whoops, looks like you got ahead of yourself. Bullfrog you know how seldom youre ever right, let's not push the envelope.
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I can see FJ’s point. I am not a nutritionist but just scanning your list of calories indicates something is wrong (half truths maybe?). Only 22 calories in milk? Isnt that like 2 table spoons of 1% low fat milk, that wouldn’t even wet the surface of the cereal.
Again, I may be wrong, (this isn’t my area) but your numbers don’t look right.
Its possible, does anyone know what the actual size is of those little cartons?
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Kellogs raisin bran - 1 cup - 195 calories
Kellogs rasin bran is loaded with sugar, more calories. We were given the generic rasins and flakes brand.
1 slice american cheese - 93
There are multiple varities listed and most of them seem to average around 50 calories per slice.
1 slice regular beef and pork bologna - 86
No its 57 take a look.
http://www.thecaloriecounter.com/Foods/ ... /Food.aspx (http://www.thecaloriecounter.com/Foods/700/7010/Food.aspx)
assuming water with meals
You assume correct.
and 2 apples a day
A day??? Are you nuts? We were lucky if we got two apples a week. I said it was on occasion not a staple of every meal.
If 2 slices of meat or cheese were on each sandwich
Never.
or if milk was served with lunch or dinner
Some kids ate their cereal dry and drank the milk, otherwise no.
or more than 8 oz of soup was served each time
We each got a little styrofoam bowl. One serving, nothing more.
these numbers would go up.
Not nearly enough. Remember Bullfrog the food that was on your table came at these kids expense.
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So lets break down these updated and more accurate numbers then.
Breakfast
1 serving cereal-187 calories.
1 carton milk-we'll say 100 for right now until someone can find the exact measurement needed.
1 Apple-55 calories.
342 calories.
Lunch
4 slices of bread-53 calories x 4= 212 calories.
2 slices bologna- 114 calories.
2 slices cheese 100
1 cup of vegetable soup-72 calories
384-398 calories
Dinner
4 slices of bread-53 calories x 4= 212 calories.
2 slices bologna- 114 calories.
2 slices cheese 100
1 cup of soup-72 calories
384-398 calories
So with the cheese sandwich and assuming the kid got an apple that day were left with:
1110 calories.
With the bologna sandwich and assuming the kid got an apple that day we're left with:
1138 calories.
So even with these higher numbers were still running at over 1000 calories short for just the girls.
Are you people okay with this?
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Oh robert dont bother with their repulsive haggling over how MUCH the children were starved, anyone reading that "diet" would be horrified. I studied nutritional science and not only are there obviously not enough calories to adequately supply a human body, the nutritional content or the "meals" would not be accepted by the fda or any cps service regarding what is allowable to feed to human children. That food isTotally devoid of any sustance My god...its like they are feeding you cardboard
Sickening sickening that those who and Shh people would try to validate that. I thought they were trying to pretend to be "unaware" of abuse. Its clear they are quite aware of abuse and simply decide to call it something else.
I suggest int he future if anyone questions wether the staf, the apologists "know" if abuse goes on at the HLA direct them to this thread. Starving children is black and white and supporting it is the darkest thing any decent person can imagine . I am replused
BRAVO on bringing this to light
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HLA folks- And I am generally one of you- just SHUT UP about the restriction diet. It was WRONG. It was one of the stupidist ideas that HLA ever had. Even if you are very liberal with the calories, it does not add up to a suficient ammount. For those of us that support HLA- we know that a lot of kids were helped and more good than bad was done, but the restrictions meals were a horribly wrong thing to put in place. It was immoral and unethical. I remember when HLA finally did away with it, most of us said "It's about damn time". Just drop the argument. Admit that there were somethings that should have been different. You are much more credible if you are willing ackowledge some of the weaknesses, just like the HLA-haters are more credible if they can acknowledge some of the positives. Something RB has been willing to do when you are not fighting rediculous fights with him.
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I wasnt arguing whether it was right, wrong, happened, didnt happen, etc..I was just pointing out the statistical data was incorrect...the numbers were misrepresented. That was the only thing I was trying to bring to light.
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Oh but remember you used to claim it never occured. Why the change? Do you now acknowledge it was abusive?
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I wasnt arguing whether it was right, wrong, happened, didnt happen, etc..I was just pointing out the statistical data was incorrect...the numbers were misrepresented. That was the only thing I was trying to bring to light.
Arguing between 900 and 1200 calories is like arguing about how many Jews were killed in the holocaust. If your argument is about numbers you are missing the point.
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Be as generous with the numbers as you would like, it will still amount to about half of the USDA requirements. Given the level of exertion and austere weather those kids were subjected to they should have been consuming 2800-3000 calories a day, minimum, and offered a variety of foods.
How many didn't eat at all because they talked without permission or got out of formation? How many didn't get to finish their measly portions because trash came by and they had to throw it away or risk further punishment?
From the Utah Regs. Not that programs comply, but this is based on USDA recommendations. Although, not sure what the USDA or any other health org would think about fresh fruit/veggies just twice a week. Utah apparently cut their programs some slack knowing how difficult it is to transport food to the outback.
(7) Each program shall have a written menu describing food supplied to the consumer which shall provide a minimum of 3000 calories per day. There must be fresh fruit and vegetables at least twice a week. Food shall never be withheld from a consumer for any reason. Food may not be withheld as a punishment. If no fire is available, other food of equal caloric value, which does not require cooking shall be available.
(a) The menu shall adjust to provide 30-100 percent increase in minimum dietary needs as energy expenditure such as exercise increases, or climate conditions such as cold weather dictate.
(a) Food shall be from a balance of the food groups.
(b) Forage items shall not be used toward the determination of caloric intake.
(c) There shall be no program fasting for more than 24 hours per expeditionary cycle.
(d) Multiple vitamin supplements shall be offered daily.
From Ga Regs for RTCs
290-2-5-.17 Food Service.
(1) An institution shall provide each child with meals and snacks of serving sizes dependent upon the age of the child based upon nutrition guidelines as established by the United States Department of Agriculture Child Care Food Program.*
(a) Meals and snacks shall be varied daily.*
(b) Additional serving of food shall be offered to children over and above the required daily minimum if not contraindicated by modified diets.*
2. Behavior management shall be limited to the least restrictive appropriate method, as described in the child's service plan pursuant to Rule [.10(b)6] and in accordance with the prohibitions as specified in these rules and regulations.*
(c) The following forms of behavior management shall not be used:*
1. Assignment of excessive or unreasonable work tasks that are not related to the resident's misbehavior;*
2. Denial of meals and hydration;*
3. Denial of sleep;*
4. Denial of shelter, clothing, or essential personal needs;*
5. Denial of essential program services;*
6. Verbal abuse, ridicule, or humiliation;*
7. Manual holds, chemical restraints, or mechanical restraints not used appropriately as emergency safety interventions;*
8. Denial of communication and visits unless restricted in accordance with Rule .10(b)7.; *
9. Corporal punishment; and*
10. Seclusion not used appropriately as an emergency safety intervention. *
~~~
The restriction diet didn't go away, it changed.
August 2006
Based on campers and staff interviews, the camp failed to provide campers with adequate quality of nutrients while participating in the intervention program. The findings include:
1. During interview with 20 campers on August 16, 2006, 4 campers (#1,2,3,4) of 20 revealed Ridgecreek conducts Intervention which last around 3-4 days. In addition, campers #1 and #5 stated the camp will take away parts of the MRE (meals ready to eat) as punishment.
2. During an interview with the Director on August 16, 2006, the Director revealed Ridgecreek did conduct an Intervention Program for Hidden Lake Academy (HLA). However, the Director further indicated that this program is no longer active and it was discontinued in May of 2006. In
addition, the Director revealed that there are no policies in place for the Intervention Program.
3. During an interview with the Director, it was further revealed that the campers who were admitted to the intervention program came from HLA and did not go through the usual admission process. In addition, when the surveyor requested to review the records of the campers that
participated in the Intervention Program, the Director stated that no records were kept on these campers.
4. During an interview with the Director on August 29, 2006 via telephone, the Director revealed the camp does not use food as punishment, but sometimes the campers may not like the MRE's and choose not eat the whole meal. In addition, The Director revealed the camp even supplies
vegetarian meals when requested.
The surveyor was unable to conduct a record review, due to records not being kept on campers that went through the intervention . ~~
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HLA folks- And I am generally one of you- just SHUT UP about the restriction diet. It was WRONG. It was one of the stupidist ideas that HLA ever had. Even if you are very liberal with the calories, it does not add up to a suficient ammount. For those of us that support HLA- we know that a lot of kids were helped and more good than bad was done, but the restrictions meals were a horribly wrong thing to put in place. It was immoral and unethical. I remember when HLA finally did away with it, most of us said "It's about damn time". Just drop the argument. Admit that there were somethings that should have been different. You are much more credible if you are willing ackowledge some of the weaknesses, just like the HLA-haters are more credible if they can acknowledge some of the positives. Something RB has been willing to do when you are not fighting rediculous fights with him.
Every one of you know it was wrong. Did any of you ever lay in bed at night and think, "I should call CPS?" It continued because not one of you stood up and demonstrated the 'care' you profess to have for the kids, and said "NO, this is wrong."
And we're to believe that you all have the kid's best interest at heart. The truth is, the kids are last, behind yourself and your loyalty to HLA in terms of preserving your j-o-b.
Did any of you find it difficult to gain the kids respect due to the abusive methods you had to employ?
How many kids submitted? And how many refused?
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HLA folks- And I am generally one of you- just SHUT UP about the restriction diet. It was WRONG. It was one of the stupidist ideas that HLA ever had. Even if you are very liberal with the calories, it does not add up to a suficient ammount. For those of us that support HLA- we know that a lot of kids were helped and more good than bad was done, but the restrictions meals were a horribly wrong thing to put in place. It was immoral and unethical. I remember when HLA finally did away with it, most of us said "It's about damn time". Just drop the argument. Admit that there were somethings that should have been different. You are much more credible if you are willing ackowledge some of the weaknesses, just like the HLA-haters are more credible if they can acknowledge some of the positives. Something RB has been willing to do when you are not fighting rediculous fights with him.
You know, this isnt a game with supporters vs detracters like a football game .REAL human beings, not pucks or flags, are being kidnapped and tortured. its not about doing more "good than harm" becasue no one has the right to EVER harm any human being AT ALL. An argument that is essentially "sure i beat one kid to death and drove another to suicide but another one is in college today!" is not acceptable. Ultimately there are limits on what I as an individual have the right to inflict on another individual. Wether I am kidnapping jews or children for the "greater good" of society- its no about "me" and my ideas for the "greater good" its about the human I am kidnapping.And the ethical limits of what one human can do to another are violated -at the HLA at all these programs. Program supporters are of narcisitic sadists as this concept is something they dont grasp
On another note, I am just repulsed by this ongoing campain to defend child torture I mean not just phsycological torture but starvation. On another thread the who is trying to defend the murder of some kid at lone star expiditions who dropped dead at the age of 15 while being forced to march..its just insane!!!
the only good thing about this is that when SANE people come to these websites they see the inhumanity of these program supporters are as repulsed as I am, as Oz girl is, as EXasted is,as anyone who has never been in 1000 miles radius of a program but has an ounce of compassion or goodness in their bodies
Shame on you who, shh
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I dont normally post on this board anymore because of the twisting of my posts to suit some of your interests ....again this has happened....I was NOT saying I agreed with this menu, I was NOT saying I believe this was the actual menu, I was NOT saying I thought one way or another on the issue of the diet, I was ONLY pointing out that Robert portrayed his original post about the daily caloric intake so it would seem they got half of what that list actually is. he stated 600-700 calories. I only pointed out that when you go to the website he posted, to do what he said, verify those numbers, they were actually closer to 1,250 calories. Thats double what he had posted. I also went to other websites and looked at what teen caloric intake is considered normal. Depending on age, activity level, the childs body weight at the time, it varied from 1,500 to 2,800. Now, given the current child obesity rate, Im not sure 2,800 calories is a good idea. But, assuming this was the diet, and Robert didnt leave anything out, it does seem to need more calories. But, my point was that Robert exaggerated the numbers to make it look worse than it was. I was NOT stating my opinion about the diet itself in that post. I have to go to work now so I cannot respond to any other posts today, but Im sure Robert will say I am "cowering in fear" by not being here to respond, his normal reaction.
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HLA folks- And I am generally one of you- just SHUT UP about the restriction diet. It was WRONG. It was one of the stupidist ideas that HLA ever had. Even if you are very liberal with the calories, it does not add up to a suficient ammount. For those of us that support HLA- we know that a lot of kids were helped and more good than bad was done, but the restrictions meals were a horribly wrong thing to put in place. It was immoral and unethical. I remember when HLA finally did away with it, most of us said "It's about damn time". Just drop the argument. Admit that there were somethings that should have been different. You are much more credible if you are willing ackowledge some of the weaknesses, just like the HLA-haters are more credible if they can acknowledge some of the positives. Something RB has been willing to do when you are not fighting rediculous fights with him.
Every one of you know it was wrong. Did any of you ever lay in bed at night and think, "I should call CPS?" It continued because not one of you stood up and demonstrated the 'care' you profess to have for the kids, and said "NO, this is wrong."
And we're to believe that you all have the kid's best interest at heart. The truth is, the kids are last, behind yourself and your loyalty to HLA in terms of preserving your j-o-b.
Did any of you find it difficult to gain the kids respect due to the abusive methods you had to employ?
How many kids submitted? And how many refused?
Truer words were never spoken.
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Sh Wrote:
Im sure Robert will say I am "cowering in fear" by not being here to respond, his normal reaction.
Most readers and anyone who has taken even a psych elective knows this is more a reflection on himself than on anyone else. This is a typical ploy to direct attention away from ones shortcomings. If anyone here is in business, think about how many people speak this way, calling someone a coward because they didn’t answer a question. Most dialog of this level is left in high school.
People on the business level may speak to “Professional courage” when referring to a colleague interacting with their peers on a specific topic, but if someone resorts to name calling most people keep quiet and allow it to continue because they know he/she won’t be promoted which makes their position stronger as they move up the ladder. (some people even try to get others to resort to name calling in an attempt to make them look bad, Ha,Ha,Ha)
So my advice is to not draw attention to it, it actually strengthens your argument from a readers standpoint
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Sh Wrote: Im sure Robert will say I am "cowering in fear" by not being here to respond, his normal reaction.
Most readers and anyone who has taken even a psych elective knows this is more a reflection on himself than on anyone else. This is a typical ploy to direct attention away from ones shortcomings. If anyone here is in business, think about how many people speak this way, calling someone a coward because they didn’t answer a question. Most dialog of this level is left in high school.
People on the business level may speak to “Professional courage” when referring to a colleague interacting with their peers on a specific topic, but if someone resorts to name calling most people keep quiet and allow it to continue because they know he/she won’t be promoted which makes their position stronger as they move up the ladder. (some people even try to get others to resort to name calling in an attempt to make them look bad, Ha,Ha,Ha)
So my advice is to not draw attention to it, it actually strengthens your argument from a readers standpoint
Wow. Thanks for that psych lesson. Perhaps you should consider employment at HLA as a Peer Group Counselor.
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again this has happened....I was NOT saying I agreed with this menu, I was NOT saying I believe this was the actual menu,
Yes you did, here take a look.
I didnt see neglect or abuse or harassment, and I still dont feel that sandwiches, soup, fruit, juice and milk constitute neglect...they were fed and nobody starved to death or were malnourished.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ruit#83239 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=83239&highlight=fruit#83239)
The only difference between your menu and mine is you seem to be under the mistaken impression that we were given juice. Even with the juice though you seem to whole heartedly support the diet, your argument being because no one died, it's okay.
Here you offered more support for it, although you were still wrong on some the details.
I had never heard of a child being on restriction for months...thats ridiculous...the longest restriction I heard was a week or two. And it wasnt only cheese sandwiches. And by the way, what kid eats more than 2 boxes of cereal for breakfast? a week of cereal, fruit, sandwiches and juice and water wont kill anybody.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p= ... ruit#82331 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=82331&highlight=fruit#82331)
You still erronously claimed no child was ever on restriction for more than a week or two, you believed we were given two boxes of cereal when we were actually only given one (except on very very rare occasions) and you believed we were given juice. Again though you voiced your support and your argument that because no one died, it was okay.
I was ONLY pointing out that Robert portrayed his original post about the daily caloric intake so it would seem they got half of what that list actually is. he stated 600-700 calories. I only pointed out that when you go to the website he posted, to do what he said, verify those numbers, they were actually closer to 1,250 calories. Thats double what he had posted
And it's still half of what the minimum requirements are for what these kids need. As to my 600-700 claim, I in no way intended to decieve, I simply made a mistake which I corrected as soon as it was pointed out. These things do happen.
I also went to other websites and looked at what teen caloric intake is considered normal. Depending on age, activity level, the childs body weight at the time, it varied from 1,500 to 2,800.
Please provide the appropriate links then.
But, assuming this was the diet, and Robert didnt leave anything out
I didnt. You yourself acknowledged that twice, minus your mistake concerning juice of course.
it does seem to need more calories
Why the sudden change? You were fine with it before?
But, my point was that Robert exaggerated the numbers to make it look worse than it was.
Not at all, I made a simple mistake which I corrected. I had no need to exagerate anything. The accurate numbers are bad enough as it is. You on the other hand have exagerated some of your claims, pretending we were given Kellogs Rasin Bran, or juice. Seconds even. Such things were unheard of.
I was NOT stating my opinion about the diet itself in that post
No need to, you'd already made your position quite clear. You were fine with the diet, and since no kid died it was fine.
have to go to work now so I cannot respond to any other posts today, but Im sure Robert will say I am "cowering in fear" by not being here to respond, his normal reaction.
Have a good day Sanna, I love you.
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Sh Wrote: Im sure Robert will say I am "cowering in fear" by not being here to respond, his normal reaction.
Most readers and anyone who has taken even a psych elective knows this is more a reflection on himself than on anyone else. This is a typical ploy to direct attention away from ones shortcomings. If anyone here is in business, think about how many people speak this way, calling someone a coward because they didn’t answer a question. Most dialog of this level is left in high school.
People on the business level may speak to “Professional courage” when referring to a colleague interacting with their peers on a specific topic, but if someone resorts to name calling most people keep quiet and allow it to continue because they know he/she won’t be promoted which makes their position stronger as they move up the ladder. (some people even try to get others to resort to name calling in an attempt to make them look bad, Ha,Ha,Ha)
So my advice is to not draw attention to it, it actually strengthens your argument from a readers standpoint
Ive taken more psych courses then you and I can tell you unanswered questions speaks volumes more than a little name calling.
As does having to make up claims about people in order to deflect from ones own failings and faux paus.
Really though lets keep this in the PM's. This is an important topic were dealing with here and we dont want it to get lost in the usual nonsense.
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Keeping the ball rolling our MPD friend had some other questions asked of him that he responded with a "no comment" for. Once again in an effort to inform I'll take it upon myself to answer them as best I can. Once again these are the conditions from several years ago, things may have changed but considering recent reports, I doubt it.
Do Len and Spooner have trouble paying their heating bill?
Doubtful, they are both well established money wise. That however didnt stop them from accepting the wood that came from restriction kids efforts.
Also can you detail what consisted of a typical work assingment?
General upkeep of the school grounds inside and out. On Saturdays the entire population was put to work cleaning the lodge and all the dorms. Work assingments also entailed almost all landscaping work, and any monotonus tasks that could be found. Moving rocks/rail road ties. There were also a great deal of building projects done around the entire campus.
How about what the menu was like while on restriction?
See previous postings.
What was the menu like while on an intervention?
It vaired. What you have to remember is that interventions were reserved when we really pissed them off. They were generally sprung with any sort of notice or warning. The crime which you committed could sometimes effect your menu, as for some crimes if it was bad enough, they sent you out right away. If it was a intervention that had been planned the menu consisted of typical camping food (freeze dried foods, beans, pasta, et cet.) and water purification tablets. Each kid was also given a large bag of granola to carry as well. The problem that arises comes from as I said you had to have really pissed them off in order to be sent out on an intervention. Because they were so pissed off you werent coming back anytime soon. If it was something they caught you in, say having sex for example, you could expect to be gone for several weeks. If on the other hand they just suspected you having done something, but you hadnt, you were staying out there until you acknowledged your guilt. This presented a problem in that you had a limited amount of food going out, and they werent eager to resupply you. That's where your granola came in, once you were out of regular food that granola had better last, cause you were staying out there until you said what they wanted to hear. For kids who were sent out immediatly after being caught (again someone having sex, runaway et cet) they might end up with only the granola and the purification tablets.
Can you link to the CPS reports that show no abuse was found?
Apparently he cannot. He claims CPS came out to HLA many times and that he saw the reports each time, as of yet however he has provided no reports for us to view.
Does HLA ever hide kids away for visitors?
Quite frequently. This was generally done on days like "ed con" day, where the school would be spruced up from top to bottom and palatable food would be served in the cafeteria. The kids who were deemed..... "unfavorable" were sent away like lepers. There's been mention made of these these kids being allowed to go on fishing trips or play softball, nothing could be further from the truth. Those kids were sent to restrictions until such time as the visitors left.
What if the plantiffs focus on claims other than abuse?
Either way theyre screwed.
Did HLA choose to file for licensure on their own or was it forced on them?
Oh undeniably forced. They may try and embrace it now and try and reap the rewards, but they fought it tooth and nail. Swore up and down to the state for years their primary purpose was on education. Advertised quite differently but thats okay. They seem to be putting on a brave face about the whole thing but they are furious that not only did a group of "disgruntled ex students, parents and employees" get the better of them and force this on them, but now theyve got to implement all sorts of changes theyd rather not. Hold on a little longer kids, that license is coming soon!
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I thought I'd take a break from my "real life" and check in. I need to compliment most of the people posting. It's nice to see people can disagree (pretty strongly at times), but stay away from cursing and name-calling that always shows lack of confidence and/or substantial information.
On the reports of mistreatment by staff. I'm sorry, but after reading reports of "killer black mold", suspicions or "reports from a very good source" of Dr. Buccelatto having employees as sex slaves/involuntary partners, defaming of others who write contradictory opinions or testimonials, it's hard for me to know if the reports of mistreatment are true or how much is true.
For the record, I don't endorse any form of mistreatment.
It's really a shame that there are some respectable people possibly stating some truth, but the believability is damaged by those that can't seem to stay away from half-truths, delete posts that are more pro-HLA or challenge negative reports (this is a regular occurrence), and/or try their best to malign someone who is challenging their opinion/report.
I still have a great deal of difficulty believing any possible mistreatment was endorsed by the HLA administration in addition to the person who possibly did it. A poster said they recalled an incident where kids were forced to "wade into the middle of the lake for the purpose of doing some exercise", and "don't recall any disciplinary action being taken against the individual for this event". I need to interject that I appreciated the demeanor with which they stated this. It would be hard to recall an employee disciplinary measure because it wouldn't be seen. Disciplining an employee who is doing something against the beliefs of a company is a private matter. Because others don't see the discipline doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and very few employees are going to come out of that kind of meeting and tell others. I don't doubt there have been problems within HLA. There isn't anyone or any organization that is perfect. However, whether or not HLA crossed the line without making voluntary changes (firings, changes in protocol, etc), has yet to be fully established.
Here are some of the problems I've noticed with Fornits:
1. Posts from pro-HLA people are deleted, modified without permission, or not posted. Hopefully this won’t be one of them. It’s happened to me before. Others have said the same.
2. Supposition is seen as fact. There is a belief that someone can say anything negative or defamatory, and innocence needs to be proven. The biggest issue of this involves the allegations of abuse. For example, RB asked me to cite reports from CPS that denied finding any signs of abuse on campus. This is not the job of someone who is casting doubt on guilt. It is the responsibility of someone who is alleging very serious allegations. If someone says I robbed a bank, it's not my job to prove my innocence, it's up to the other side to prove my guilt. However, it's a good Fornits technique to try and get the other side to prove innocence, because the person accusing can simply sit back and allege anything they want. It also leaves others believing the person is guilty if they don't find "the right" evidence.
RB, I not only address you on these posts; I also address others. If you aren't arguing there were CPS findings of abuse on campus, I leave my response for others who have claimed abuse happening on campus. If you are having a hard time or don't have the motivation to find positive reports of abuse from CPS, it's going to be hard to convince me abusive behavior was endorsed by HLA. That is why I'm telling you "time is ticking". I'm not here to dismiss the truth, just lies and distortion. I should be one of the people you try to convince. It's easy to preach to the choir. So please investigate this or have someone else do this for you. Yes, there were multiple reports made to CPS. However, this is something that happens at nearly every center that offers psychological counseling in the nation. The fact that CPS can receive a report of abuse 24 hours per day/365 days per year and HLA hasn't had one positive report of abuse in 13 years really casts doubt on the allegations of abuse. To put this in perspective, there have been approximately 4,562 days and 109, 500 hours (based on 12.5 years) in which a report of abuse could have been made or found by to be true by CPS. However, this hasn’t happened. RB, you said you were abused. You should at least know the outcome of a report I’m assuming you made to CPS. If you didn’t place a report, why? How many of the others claiming abuse on this site made a report to CPS? A positive report of abuse would certainly sway me to believe it happened on campus.
I noticed people started arguing the calorie content of the meals for those on restrictions. This is assuming the diet being reported is true. Once again, things on Fornits have been so distorted in the past, it’s hard to know when something is true or not. RB, you told me your real name was Robert Bruce. I found out this was a lie. You could have just told me you didn’t want this revealed. This is what I mean. When you lie or tell a half-truth, you destroy credibility.
3. If don’t have anything to say or don’t like what is posted, slander or curse out the person. There are several people who tried to challenge the negative perspectives in the past, but won’t return to Fornits simply because they don’t believe they are going to be heard. This leaves Fornits to be predominantly dominated by people who are opposed to HLA. The longer someone stays on this site, the more skewed and unobjective their perspective becomes. RB said he didn’t see a student spitting in the face of their counselor a negative thing. I think this gives perspective on why others with alternative opinions are treated so poorly without regret.
4. Half-truths are pervasive. For example, RB and company usually leaves out the full details. The latest one was RB quoting a partial page (pg.15) on the latest ruling from the court. Rather than reference the stated fact the court was denying the accusation of unjust enrichment, he focused on the word “unjust enrichment” and the number of times it was mentioned. If I didn’t have that document, I’d be left to think it was mentioned several times because there was truth to the allegation. Another one is to say kids were left on restriction for “months at a time”. What is left out is the fact a kid can be placed on a 3, 4, 5, & 7-day restriction. This means a kid received several restrictions in a row, not a counselor signed off on a restriction to last for months.
Here is what I believe:
1. People should be heard without being slandered or cursed. This can often become verbal or emotional abuse to some.
2. If you are accusing someone of something very serious, it’s not up to the accused to prove their innocence. It’s not up to someone who casts doubt on the issue of abuse to find a CPS report that doesn’t find abuse.
3. Any mistreatment towards another person is wrong.
4. HLA is not perfect. There isn’t a person or organization that is.
5. The stronger the truth is pursued, the more likely one is to find it. This comes from my Christian faith.
6. You shouldn’t hate or judge the inherent goodness or badness of a person, but you can judge their actions and/or character. Once again, this comes from my Christian faith.
7. I make mistakes (sometimes several) and will correct myself when I find it to be true.
As far as what I believe about HLA, I think I’ve stated it pretty clearly. I’m open to considering the other side, but am waiting to hear convincing evidence that the other opinion is true from a credible person. I’m really doubting the possibility of finding this on Fornits. It’s really a shame.
Good night! ::kiss::
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I posted this a couple days ago in the 4th page of the restrictions thread to address you posts, and I'll post it here again now, as I don't think you saw it in that thread.
But first, to address your question why I didn't file a lawsuit or anything against HLA, or contact CPS. Sure, CPS is open to be contacted all the time, but how were we to contact them?? The only phones in the dorms were in a locked room that staff had the key to. There was no internet, no private mail, nothing. Please explain to me how we were supposed to report HLA. And even after we left, to file a personal injury lawsuit or something... (If I'm not mistaken) the statute of limitations on that kind of lawsuit is 2 years after your 18th birthday (essentialy your 20th bday.) Most of us did not even want to THINK the name HLA and were just so relieved to be out, that we just wanted to move on. Why, once I had finally rid my life of HLA, would I voluntarily bring them back in? I just wanted to go to college, and forget it ever happened.
And I'm not sure who you want as a more RELIABLE source... I am an ex student. Was there for 23 months. Deborah is a parent of an ex student, Robert Bruce was a student.... Who else is more reliable to prove abuse, than the ones who were abused or the people closest to them in their lives? Who would you more likely believe... The people who desperately need to disprove these alligations for the sole survival of their way of life, or the people who are WILLINGLY reliving these things to try and help currently enrolled students to have a better quality of life at this school?? Because I'm pretty sure that one side of this argument has a MUCH better reason to lie. And before you pull the money from the lawsuit card as a reason for us to lie, I am not involved in the lawsuit, and will gain nothing from the outcome.
So please, FJ, where is my motivation to lie here? Why would I waste my time, when I work full time and have a new son, to come onto this site and stir up BS?
So heres my response from "Restrictions" thread...
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I simply cannot believe the ignorance of some of the people posting on this site. The blatant LIES!!! Saying we're hiding behind anonimity making bogus claims. PM me, I'll tell you exactly who I am, when I was there are every bit of TRUTH about my 23 month stay at this "wonderful, caring" TBS.
Here is the TRUTH about my stay at HLA. Function Junction, you are SORELY mistaken and your posts are dripping with lies.
We WERE made to pick up feces with our bare hands. Work gloves were never provided, nor encouraged to parents to be provided.
People were on restrictions for MONTHS at a time.
We did monotonous, pointless work assignments DAILY. Yes, we chopped wood, but in my 23 months at that school, NEVER was it delivered to "poor helpless elderly people." It was stacked in rows underneath the deck of the lodge for staff to use whenever they wanted. Never were we given gloves of any kind or safety equipment (saftey goggles or otherwise), and after 2 hours or so of chopping wood our hands were BLOODY. Another one of my favorites was moving a 15 ft high pile of wood and brush about 20 feet away and then back again just to have some physical work for us. Picking up acorns out of staff's yards was another good one. How about moving rocks from one point in the stream (in bare feet in VERY cold weather) to another point for some more restrictions fun. The list goes on, but I'm sure you get the point. (At least the sensible ones here do.)
We DID to PT in Lower Left that was filled with backed up sewage and goose feces. Not just push ups, but front-back-go's. Anyone who attended that school and did PT with Rob Hyde knows what those are. For those who dont... Front back goes are an aerobic excercise that include push ups (FRONT), flutter kicks (BACK), and high knee running (GO'S). Rob stood, walking back and forth like a drill sargent yelling out FRONT! We'd hit the ground doing push ups... BACK! We'd scramble to a laying down position, hands under our butts, legs out straight at a 45 degree angle, kicking back and forth.... GO! Jump up and run in place, knees must come to a 90 degree angle in front of the body. This went on for nearly an HOUR sometimes!! All the while in shit ridden grass! And that was just ONE excersize. How can ANYONE say this is not wrong and demoralizing!
And about graduation speeches (I know thats from another thread, but I'm just addressing all the bullshit in one post).Yeah, I'm sure to most people, our graduation speeches sounded like the tale of a wonderful and educational 2 years, filled with caring individuals and life improving activities. However... Our speeches were written months in advance. Once a week in Reals, for about the last 4-5 weeks, we would read our speeches to our counselers and Peer Group members. In that time, we were to "revise" any area of the speech that our counselor deemed to be not fitting. You think those were OUR words??? That was 2 years of brainwashed, coached BULLSHIT that we spewed out. And sure, you can say, why didn't someone just get up there at tell the truth?? Well, after every aspect of our life being controlled and moderated, and being punished ANY time we tried to tell the truth (whether through letter of phone call) why would we!? Especially when we were on the BRINK of escape! Why jeopordize our chances of graduating!!?? Do you know how many of my friends there (including myself) actually had nightmares that on the day of our graduation, something was going to come up and we weren't going to get to leave? That was our BIGGEST fear.
Thats why, after so long, after the first few months of trying to tell the truth, and trying to fight back, you just give up. The 13 hour restriction days just get too long... The PT just gets too hard. The constantly being told your a LIAR, a MANIPULATOR, that your DESTROYING YOUR FAMILY... It just gets to be too much. Getting used to the shit that goes on there and just becoming a PRODUCT of HLA is ten times easier than continuing to try and fight back.
And its not just us giving up. The parents want to believe their doing the right thing. They dont WANT to believe you. They want to believe the counselor who tell them that this is just something that every new student does through, and that we'll "adjust" to being there. We'll stop lying, stop manipulating, stop trying to get them to pull us. And by golly, we eventually do just give up.
So how DARE you people sit here and tell me, and others like me that that 2 years wasnt abusive, wasnt degrading... You didn't go through what we did.
WE ARE NOT LIARS. No matter how many times we have been told that AT hla, and even here after. I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, I KNOW WHAT WE WENT THROUGH.
Go to any HLA Alumni group (excluding the on on HLA's site where they delete posts), and you will SEE FOR YOURSELF our opinions and memories from that time.
Function Junction, The Who, and all you other people advocating for HLA... I sure hope all your lying and deception is worth it... Because there is justice in this world, and I assure you, it will find you someday.
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Note to Function Junction: Parents and/or former students did call CPS regarding abuses at HLA. Because HLA is NOT licensed by the state of Georgia, CPS cannot legally go onto HLA's property without first obtaining a warrant through their legal department. (Thank God that will change!) It's not an easy process. Most parents and/or former students were so appalled and disgusted with the state of Georgia's inability to protect children and the amount of red tape one would have to go through to get CPS into HLA that they just gave up.
Oh, and here are some lovely statistics about the fine state of Georgia with regarding to "Georgia's Children":
http://www.gov.state.ga.us/summit_fl/statistics.shtml (http://www.gov.state.ga.us/summit_fl/statistics.shtml)
Statistics about Georgia's Children
* Georgia received 101,563 reports of child abuse last year (PSDS CY04)
* 30,951 of those were substantiated as victims of child abuse (PSDS CY04)
* About 85% of those children were victims of severe neglect
* About 11% were physically abused
* About 5% were sexually abused - that is about 2411 children sexually abused in CY04
* 15,119 children were in care as of December 2005
* 30% of those children have been in foster care more than 24 months
* 50% of those children were African American
* 41% of those children were less than 6 years old
* 67% were younger than 12
* About 2,237 of those children were staying with relatives
* About 8,386 were staying in foster homes
* About 1,561 were in group homes
* About 974 were housed in institutions
* Approximately 8% of the children discharged will re-enter foster care within 1 year
* Foster parents are reimbursed according to the age of the child: birth to 5, $13.75; 6-12, $15.50; 13 and above, $17.75. The rate is higher for children needing medical care or a higher level of supervision. Medical treatment and clothing costs are covered by the agency.
* Georgia 's 200 group homes are paid for about 68% of their costs (GAHSC 2005)
* Georgia 's 4,174 foster parents are paid for about 67% of their costs (USDA 2004)
* Those 4,174 families save the state approximately $34 million per year
Georgia ranks 39 out of 50 states in overall child well being (Kids Count, Family Connections).
The long-term cost of failing to meet this need appropriately raises the stakes for system improvement. A paper published by the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention in July 2001 reports that a substantial body of research shows that:
* Maltreated children are significantly more likely than non-maltreated children to become involved in delinquent or criminal behavior.
* The prevalence of childhood abuse or neglect among delinquent and criminal populations is substantially greater than that in the general population.
* Delinquent youth with a history of abuse and neglect are at higher risk of continuing their delinquent behavior than delinquents without such a history.
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You seem to be making a sincere effort to carry on a legitimate conversation, so for the moment I'll do the same.
A poster said they recalled an incident where kids were forced to "wade into the middle of the lake for the purpose of doing some exercise", and "don't recall any disciplinary action being taken against the individual for this event". I need to interject that I appreciated the demeanor with which they stated this. It would be hard to recall an employee disciplinary measure because it wouldn't be seen.
Do you recall the event in question occuring? Do you recall ever hearing about it?
The biggest issue of this involves the allegations of abuse. For example, RB asked me to cite reports from CPS that denied finding any signs of abuse on campus. This is not the job of someone who is casting doubt on guilt.
Here's the problem with that, I have never made nor seen a claim made by any anti-hla poster which states "CPS came in and found all sorts of abuse going on." As I mentioned before the only time that I know of any sort of CPS type agency coming in was when DEFACS came in a few months ago, and I only know about that from Cates' letter. I have no idea what the original claim was, nor do I know what the outcome of the investigation was. Since that is the case it is you who brought up the matter to begin with, it is your claim, it is yours to back up. You claimed CPS had been in several times and never found evidence of abuse. You didnt make this claim to refute someone else, you decided to do so on your own. I'm waiting to see now if you can back up that claim. If you cannot simply let me know and we'll move on.
RB, I not only address you on these posts; I also address others. If you aren't arguing there were CPS findings of abuse on campus, I leave my response for others who have claimed abuse happening on campus. If you are having a hard time or don't have the motivation to find positive reports of abuse from CPS, it's going to be hard to convince me abusive behavior was endorsed by HLA.
Again it was your claim, not a rebuttal to anyone elses. As to other evidence clearly there is too much testimony for you to simply discount. We can't all be lying can we?
I'm not here to dismiss the truth, just lies and distortion.
Then get specific. If there's a clear example of something you believe to be a lie then let us know, we'll address it and either offer up evidence or we wont. Gneralizations amount to nothing.
I should be one of the people you try to convince. It's easy to preach to the choir
I'm not interested in trying to convince you. Youve clearly spent more time at HLA then I ever did, yet you are still somehow oblivious to the truth. Either by choice or simple naivity I do not know.
Yes, there were multiple reports made to CPS.
Then provide them, I know of none save the one.
The fact that CPS can receive a report of abuse 24 hours per day/365 days per year and HLA hasn't had one positive report of abuse in 13 years really casts doubt on the allegations of abuse
Not really, kids arent exactly given access to phones are they? Outside communication isnt unrestricted is it? There's a reason you all do this and this is it. One more reason why HLA being forced to become licensed is such a great thing. Now will kids not only be able to communicate freely with the outside world without being monitored or censored, but there will be a state rep on hand to hear such reports from kids when they actually occur.
RB, you said you were abused. You should at least know the outcome of a report I’m assuming you made to CPS.
I never made one.
If you didn’t place a report, why?
A few reasons, when I got out I was so relived to finally be away from that God awful place I didnt want to have to even think about what went on there. No different then most rape victims not reporting their attacks. They just dont want to have to think about it. The other big reason was alot of time had passed since some of the incidents, some over a year prior. How would I have proven a physical abuse claim from a year prior? Again this is why HLA doesnt allow kids access to phones. That way they cant report things when they occur. This is also the same reason so many kids arent sent out on interventions right after getting into fist fights with staff.
How many of the others claiming abuse on this site made a report to CPS?
Youll have to ask them.
A positive report of abuse would certainly sway me to believe it happened on campus.
Why would it? Youve seen it with your own eyes for years yet you never believed it before. Why would a piece of paper suddenly change your mind?
I noticed people started arguing the calorie content of the meals for those on restrictions. This is assuming the diet being reported is true. Once again, things on Fornits have been so distorted in the past, it’s hard to know when something is true or not.
You already know its true, you were there. If that wasnt enough though youve got Susie Gray corroborating the diet, and another pro HLA staff member saying it was abusive. Really no way around that one.
RB, you told me your real name was Robert Bruce. I found out this was a lie.
No, I told you my real name was Robert. It is, despite whatever misinformation your coworkers have given you.
3. If don’t have anything to say or don’t like what is posted, slander or curse out the person. There are several people who tried to challenge the negative perspectives in the past, but won’t return to Fornits simply because they don’t believe they are going to be heard. This leaves Fornits to be predominantly dominated by people who are opposed to HLA. The longer someone stays on this site, the more skewed and unobjective their perspective becomes. RB said he didn’t see a student spitting in the face of their counselor a negative thing. I think this gives perspective on why others with alternative opinions are treated so poorly without regret.
As opposed to how welcoming the HLA board is to dissenting opinions? And no I didnt view that particular counselor being spit at as a negative, I personally punched him in the face and laughed when he teared up. He deserved it. Also perhaps you should take a closer look at that link I gave you before. Those are all your coworkers, and possibly you on occasion, attacking us trying to manipulate, being abusive. Cant forget about the antics of ol Bullfrog either. Please dont lay down the "holier than thou" card. It just doesnt play.
4. Half-truths are pervasive. For example, RB and company usually leaves out the full details. The latest one was RB quoting a partial page (pg.15) on the latest ruling from the court. Rather than reference the stated fact the court was denying the accusation of unjust enrichment, he focused on the word “unjust enrichment” and the number of times it was mentioned. If I didn’t have that document, I’d be left to think it was mentioned several times because there was truth to the allegation.
Youre mistaken, I left nothing out, nor did I mention how many times something was stated. That was all you.
Another one is to say kids were left on restriction for “months at a time”. What is left out is the fact a kid can be placed on a 3, 4, 5, & 7-day restriction. This means a kid received several restrictions in a row, not a counselor signed off on a restriction to last for months.
What difference does it make whether or not the kid was on multiple back to back restrictions or one long one? The fact remains the same he was on restriction for months at a time. Everything else is just splitting hairs. Not to mention the fact that kids were left on restriction a great deal longer than 7 days for a single infraction. If the kid in question refused to acknowledge guilt of the crime he would be left on there until he did. So now who's telling half truths?
5. The stronger the truth is pursued, the more likely one is to find it. This comes from my Christian faith.
6. You shouldn’t hate or judge the inherent goodness or badness of a person, but you can judge their actions and/or character. Once again, this comes from my Christian faith.
I do not believe a person can dismiss the truth about HLA and turn a blind eye toward it yet call themselves Christian. Sorry its just my opinion.
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As a former HLA staff member (counseling staff) I can say with certainty that the "restrictions diet" did indeed exist and was comprised of the items listed by RB. Several other staff members (including Chris Allen, who was pretty high on the food chain) have stated it outright on this board and concur with RB's assessment that it was comprised of what he enumerated and that it was WRONG and UNETHICAL. Your claims, FJ, don't pass the smell test, as this issue has been admitted many times before by several staffers and even Suzanne Gray, a nearly blind HLA supporter, who again verified that there was a "restrictions diet" that she saw administered to children first hand. Sorry, FJ, but your claims don't jive with reality.
I personally have seen incidents of staff-on-child abuse on several occasions and reported it up the chain where it was propmtly buried and I was told I didn't "understand the program and how it works."
I have made several reports to ORS and CPS and finally, after several YEARS of dogged persistence those claims, and those of others, those reports were properly investigated at HLA (came in with a warrant) and at Ridge Creek (normal ORS investigation) and the result is that HLA was found to be acting outside the law and is now forced into being licensed and Ridge Creek was cited for thirty some odd violations INCLUDING taking HLA "restrictions kids" without paperwork and providing them with INADEQUATE NUTRITION, amongst other neglectful/abusive/illegal acts.
So, FJ, huff and puff all you want, but ORS' violations sheet from RC is as long as your arm and documented fact. HLA was found to be providing services ILLEGALLY and will now have to be licensed as a result. And here you are wanting readers to believe this happened in a VACUUM. You're a dissembler and a prevaricator - that's not namecalling, it's an objective, professional assessment of your nonsense and lies. The preponderance of evidence contraindicates the whimsical nonsense you are posting here - it's fact and it's public record
Go peddle that garbage elsewhere.
How does lying and manipulating to protect known child abusers square with being a "Christian," I wonder? I suppose it's just dandy with you in your materialist quest to earn money from childrens' suffering, but you also will be judged in this life and the next. Good luck with that. Bring an asbestos suit! You're going to need it...
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Bring an asbestos suit! You're going to need it...
:D
That's actually really good.
In all fairness though our MPD friend isnt alone, either in his refusal to see the truth or in his probable final destination.
TheWho jumped right on board willingly and without any hesitation when he felt he finally had someone to champion his cause that no kids are really abused in these places. Maybe a fraction of less than 1% (his words) but most of these kids are lying and 98% of them leave their TBS happy.
Now mind you TheWho has a rather limited experience with any TBS as hes never been enrolled in one, but he's certain none of them systemically abuse kids and they all have the kids best interest at heart. When our MPD friend started discussing the restriction diet matter TheWho was eager to jump on that bandwagon and dismiss any and all claims otherwise, because as he stated our MPD friend had proven us (and me in particular) to be a liar. Espically on that matter. Here take a look at his comments.
They served the calories required, we know it but you like to tell a different story. This like all the other stories of abuse. That is why you dont release any figures becasue they show the abuse levels to be nil.
So a school he has never been to, knows nothing about, has never known anyone who attended, yet he (excuse me, they) know no abuses occured.
:roll:
Off you go Cindy, go join your friend in the corner. Don't forget to pick up your pointed cone hat along the way. At least with you both having multiple personality disorder you'll have plenty to talk about.
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Now that I am out of jail....
This is going to become truly interesting. I have retained a monster firm from New York and HLA will be sorry they ever stooped to the level they have. False incident reports filed with the LCSO are very serious, not to mention malicious prosecution coulpled with the current action in federal court, they will regret making a target out of this yankee.
So from my vacation in jail....I'm off to recharge my batteries in baja california.
I will post updates when I return.
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Now that I am out of jail....
This is going to become truly interesting. I have retained a monster firm from New York and HLA will be sorry they ever stooped to the level they have. False incident reports filed with the LCSO are very serious, not to mention malicious prosecution coulpled with the current action in federal court, they will regret making a target out of this yankee.
So from my vacation in jail....I'm off to recharge my batteries in baja california.
I will post updates when I return.
???? Do tell!
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When did I say that I saw children eating a different diet from the others while on restriction? Please post that because I dont ever remember saying that. I remember they prepared different food to send out onto campus for those children that were on work assignments,etc, but I never saw the food being eaten by those children or what it consisted of.
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Then why did you claim you knew what we ate?
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well, well, you are out of the pokey...while i dont support hla or their practices...i do know FOR A FACT that you are a petty thief and if had not been fired would have robbed that place blind...not that they didn't deserve it...but you would have probably killed someone driving drunk like you loved to do...i am just grateful that they either arrested you for dui or you passed out before you were able to get behind the wheel...or for God's mercy, we were all spared your plowing your lexus into the unsuspecting family driving home from somewhere or another while you were 3 sheets to the wind from going to dominiques...
so you may claim injustice for some things...just consider that stuff you wern't caught for!
i certainly hope you got some help in that treatment center in texas you attended!
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While you do not support HLA you certainly are outspoken regarding a first offense DUI.
If you are so outraged and concerned about me and my Lexus why don't you reveal your identity. You are such a coward.
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it wouldn't matter if i told you who i was since you never remembered me when you saw me practically every day... and outraged about your first offense dui...lemme tell you...even one moment driving drunk in an environment that is FULL OF KIDS is a stupid, selfish, and dangerous thing to do and someone that would do it on a nightly basis is more of a coward than i will ever be...
so if you think that you will come on here and be "the hero" i have a feeling that you will be sorely mistaken...once folks see what a snake oil salesman you actually are...
and make no mistake...i don't support ANYONE who puts the lives of children in danger and that was you...nightly...and HLA daily...
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If you don't have the guts to reveal your identity you are the coward, obviously you were not important enough for me to remember your name when we met, tough shit! Get over yourself.
No guts no glory.
I've paid my debt to society for driving under the influence, and honestly I could care less about the students at HLA.
You are talking about spoiled little bastards that microwave cups full of their own urine and toss it on other people.
Regardless you are still an ignorant coward. The world needs people like me to keep cowards like you safe and in your proper place. You need people like me in this world to protect your sorry ass.
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well, well, aren't we full of ourselves...
regardless of what you think or what you say...i stand behind the truth, you can call me what you would especially since apparently i have hit a nerve...but in the end...you will still be a petty thief and snake oil salesman and i will be, well, you know...
oh, and i guess you are calling all on this board cowards that aren't "as brave as you are"...don't you know...anonimity is the basis of many programs and it works well with them...i would think that all that time in rehab and the hoose-gow you would know about those...i guess i was mistaken...
"The world needs people like me to keep cowards like you safe and in your proper place. You need people like me in this world to protect your sorry ass."
as far as that statement goes...you spit in the face of every man and woman who has given their life to protect the freedoms of worms like you and you should be ashamed that you put yourself in the same catagory as them...but i know that the real heros in this world would fight to the death so that you keep the right to say such narsasistic (sp), pompus and ridiculous statements....to them i say thank you...my family and close friends are all apart of that sect, one that you would NEVER be able to compare to no matter how much you think of yourself..
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If you don't have the guts to reveal your identity you are the coward, obviously you were not important enough for me to remember your name when we met, tough shit! Get over yourself.
No guts no glory.
I've paid my debt to society for driving under the influence, and honestly I could care less about the students at HLA.
You are talking about spoiled little bastards that microwave cups full of their own urine and toss it on other people.
Regardless you are still an ignorant coward. The world needs people like me to keep cowards like you safe and in your proper place. You need people like me in this world to protect your sorry ass.
If you want anyone of this board to care about "your sorry ass", then you'd better care about the kids at HLA. This isn't just some forum to get back at Len - this is about kids who were mistreated and downright abused and righting that wrong.
You'd better think long and hard your comments and attitude before you want sympathy from people on this forum - especially if your goal is just to save your own sorry ass.
~A Former Parent
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If you don't have the guts to reveal your identity you are the coward, obviously you were not important enough for me to remember your name when we met, tough shit! Get over yourself.
No guts no glory.
I've paid my debt to society for driving under the influence, and honestly I could care less about the students at HLA.
You are talking about spoiled little bastards that microwave cups full of their own urine and toss it on other people.
Regardless you are still an ignorant coward. The world needs people like me to keep cowards like you safe and in your proper place. You need people like me in this world to protect your sorry ass.
Screw off your self righteous bastard. Your lucky us "spoiled little bastards" don't know where you live.
Us spoiled bastards amounted to much more than a goddamn drunk boy-toy, which is more than you can say.