Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 30, 2007, 03:22:49 AM
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Does anyone here have experience with this?
Or people whom they are very close to having commited suicide after program?
The despair I feel is unbearable. The murder was not commited by my insane parents, by the evil torturers, but the so called authorites whose job it is to enforce the law, but are corrupt, callous So innocnents are shipped off and tortured to death by the same people who tortured innocnets to death 1 year ago10 yers ago 20 , 30 years ago. And it could of been stopped at any time...but why bother. Theres $ to be made and who cares anyway its not like theyll gt a promotion out of doing something so politcally charged?
The murder is not inflicted by a deviant from societty but society itself. This supposed system of democracy, the suposed cops, the suposed cps, the suposed authorites, the suposed mayors, the suposed govenors, the suposed Feds
Too many people to fight, too much betrayal,everything & everyone is repulsive and evil...
anyway its late...im going down tangents besides the point.
not that there is a point except,
has anyone had this happen? Does anyone know anyone who died?
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I don't know about siblings, but as a parent in emotional and financial devastation after a (chancery) court judge handed my child over to my psychotic ex last year to be placed in a lock down facility I certainly think about it on a daily basis.
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The kid who was sat on and murdered by the lard ass at Eckert, his mother later killed her remaining son and then killed herself.
Another family saved by the teen help industry.
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First it is Eckerds.
Second they restrained him face down in a two person TCI restraint that caused the compressive forces to restrict his airway to the extent that it caused the boy to be suffocated. They didn't sit on him. Either way the child was still killed over refusing to pass a bottle of ketchup.
Third it was 2 people who performed the restraint and not 1.
And yes the mother did commit suicide after murdering her surviving son a few years later.
Refrain from commenting on items that you aren't willing to accurately report. Save such bullshit for your hand jobbing of The Who.
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Just a typo on the prison name.
The source I read didnt mention two counselors just the one, it also wasnt clear with what type of restraint was used other than that the kid was "pinned down". My experience with such restraints usually involves the staff sitting on the kid, although youve more experience restraining kids than I do.
Details aside the fact remains this kid was murdered by this industry and it pushed his mother over the edge.
As to Cindy, I prefer to think of it as me finger banging him.
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Three Springs, all reports on the death of this boy at Eckerds only holds the counselor, Josephy Cooley, resonsible for the restraint that caused his death. Another counselor, Joseph Acton stood by and did nothing to intervene; but he was not accused of participating in the restraint.
What evidence do you have, that two counselors participated in the restraint and death of this child; and why wasn't this evidence presented to help prosecute these counselors?
The mother and son's death was ruled as "death by carbon monoxide poisoning" after they were both found dead in her automobile in their closed garage;" and there "was no sign of trauma on either body." There is no evidence that this mother "murdered her son" by some means; and then committed suicide.
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http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/Remembe ... ltsie.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/RememberingMichaelWiltsie.html)
Cooley outweighed Mikey by 200 lbs. or so.
He also accused his victim of playing "possum" and thus, continued the restraint after Mikey had stopped struggling.
:flame:
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Three Springs, all reports on the death of this boy at Eckerds only holds the counselor, Josephy Cooley, resonsible for the restraint that caused his death. Another counselor, Joseph Acton stood by and did nothing to intervene; but he was not accused of participating in the restraint.
What evidence do you have, that two counselors participated in the restraint and death of this child; and why wasn't this evidence presented to help prosecute these counselors?
The mother and son's death was ruled as "death by carbon monoxide poisoning" after they were both found dead in her automobile in their closed garage;" and there "was no sign of trauma on either body." There is no evidence that this mother "murdered her son" by some means; and then committed suicide.
Right and I've a bridge for you in Brooklynn. Just sit still little timmy and the gas won't hurt for to much.
First of all I worked at Camp E- kel etu 6 months after the incident, and yes their were two staff involved. One was a counselor and one was a resource teacher.
Why didn't it hit the papers? Beats the shit out of me. Not my area of concern either. Dead is dead.
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Reading that story made me very sad. It brought back memories of being a young teen being restrained myself, and how much worse it must be for pre teen kids. I just cant believe some of this shit. To die underneath a sweaty, stinky, overweight, just trying to get a breath is horrible. What else can be said? This industry kills kids systematically, it's that simple
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Yep it really is that tragically simple.
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Apparently the counselor was orginally aquitted as the restraint was deemed "appropriate". Later on however he was declared respondsible for the kids death by the Fl dept of Justice.
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I Knew this kid in program named Sean. He Loved his twin brother to death, hated the program (least when I was there). I don't know what happened to him specifically, but I do know that his brother went to program after him. Anyway. Immediately after his brother left Benchmark Young Adult School, he committed suicide. His name was Seth Hancock (information publicly available).
I guess program really worked for him.
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The only argument against that Psy, is would this kid have comitted suicide anyway?
There were 5 suicides among my family & friends in the space of 3 years a few years back, not one of them went to any program/care etc, they all came from well balanced loving & pretty much wealthy homes
It needs to be asked if suicide is something that some people are just going to do at some stage in their lives no matter what - sort of along the lines of "what has he/she got to be depressed about?" You don't need a reason for depression, it just gets you no matter who you are or what your circumstances.
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The only argument against that Psy, is would this kid have comitted suicide anyway?
There were 5 suicides among my family & friends in the space of 3 years a few years back, not one of them went to any program/care etc, they all came from well balanced loving & pretty much wealthy homes
It needs to be asked if suicide is something that some people are just going to do at some stage in their lives no matter what - sort of along the lines of "what has he/she got to be depressed about?" You don't need a reason for depression, it just gets you no matter who you are or what your circumstances.
i agree with this point. i don't have program friends who committed suicide, but known a few people who lived seemingly "normal" lives... so it's a subject that has always perplexed me.
i think a tragedy is that these private programs suggest that they are "help" and so parents with suicidal kids or depressed kids send them to a facility where they will only get punished and ridiculed and institutionalized over a long period of time. if you are already suicidal, this will just make it worse. i see this as a form of negligent homicide, programs purposely lie and parents bypass other treatments that might have been more effective. also, in programs, when kids show signs of suicidal ideation, they dismiss it as "manipulation" where as in normal society the kid might have gotten the help the so desperately needed. that is a tragedy I think.
i was diagnosed as suicidal and majorly depressed and sent to a program to get "help" but instead was just punished. i had been hospitalized for taking so many drugs I od'd and so they assumed I was trying to kill myself.. then when locked away I started cutting to relieve stress without the drugs anymore. So there solution is to send me to a WWASPS camp. Theres something wrong with that equation. And its not just parents either. The adolescent psychiatric advisor actually suggested I be sent to Provo Canyon School, they had brochures at the hospital and everything. THe only reason that didn't work out was because of insurance refusing to pay and my dad had to find the bargain basement version of treatment because he had to pay for it by him,self.
One kid I was friends with at SCL, his dad killed himself while in the program and instead of letting him go home they force him to go on and pretend nothing happens. He got caught for taking 1 morphine pill that he had smuggled in months earlier, obviously to dull the pain of losing his father, and they punish him severly by dropping him to level 1. THey finally let him visit the funeral at his moms request, but a staff went with. THen he got sent back. Its like they have no concept of mental health.
I have countless tales of crazy things kids did like slicing their arms wide open and writing in blood on the wall 'free me', trying to fall on sticks and die, shit like that. But hte program never saw any of this as anything more than manipulation. Suicide to them is jus tanother escape method from the program, and treat is as such.
Karlye ended up killing herslef a couple years after I got out by hanging herself in the shower. Thats really the only way you could of done it at SCL. But to do it that way, you would have to realy try hard, and it would be violent.. it just so sad. I cant even think about it, because I know the feelings and scenery to well.. its too real.
I do think programs contribute to the suicide of certain invidicuals who needed help and never got it. As well as people treated so horribly, their lives are never the same after the experience at the program, and so desperately want the pain to end see no other solution than to end it all. I know because its hard to escape your subconcious thoughts they come out whether you want it or not.
One kid killed himself before being sent back to a program in Jamaica. I have to wonder if this was a contributing factor?
BUt its not like psychiatric hospitals are some heavenly life saving experience either. But my stays were at least somewhat better than SCL, but that ain't sying much. Suicide sucks.
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Its moronic to say that becasue people commit sucide without going to program ,then they dont commit sucicide becasue they go to program. Thats like saying that because people die without being shot, then they dont die becasue they are shot.
there is a logical mistep there
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Suffering is not only "mental illness" but emotional and brain damage induced by an environment. Similarly,some people die of a congenital heart defect and some people get shot in the heart. There is an obvios difference
. The mind once damaged is not easily undamged unlike a bodily organ Program destroy minds by deliberately making children hopeless helpless and hapless. Intentioanlly produced brain damge combined with intentioanlly induced spiritual damge is going to produce sucide as an inevitabley for some children. Similarly if I shoot 100 kids in the head death and/or permanent brain damage will be an inevitable outcome for some of the children.The brain damage combined with the spiritual damge taking kids to a nadir they are trapped in. Some kids will be able to "heal" out of it, usually with a lot of help. Inevitabley some won't. These are the kids who commit sucide 5-10-15-20-30 even 40 years later. They were unable to escape the damage and the bad situaltion that being a program survivor puts them in.
What about the kids who exit plans at 18 whom are brain damaged, freindless, penniless, clueless about how to live life. I know a kid who was in program from the time he was 11. No freinds on the outside. No family who wants him. No education. Brain damaged. He was in THE MOST CRAZY program OF THEM ALL CEDU. He was homeless in the freezing cold winter. He met up with some homeless folk they set a fire to keep warm in an abandned building. It was the new england winter. He went out to smoke a cig. When he came back the fire had spread. He stands outside hestitates, and then tries to run in to rescue his freinds-40 year old men, the only freinds this child has. He is the only one who survives with serious smoke inhalation issues. He's getting sent to prison for 10 years for damge to a buliding.
If he commits suicide while there is it just cause hes just a nutty nutty depressed person, or is it becsue his world is genuinely unbearable, cruel, battering and he cant take it anymore with good reason? These things snowball. Brilliant children are driven insane and denied a life they easily would have had if they dont spend their entire formative period being tortured. If you deliberately set out to utterly break a human being you will often produce an utterly broken human being . Their sucides are 100% becasue they are in program
I can come over to your house tomoro and shoot u n the head. I can do it to 12 other people and I can garantee one half of them will survive. So if you die whose at fault? Its my fault for doing that to your brain right?. Thats what program does to kids and thats whom is to blame for the mutilations that these children become
there are people who get brain tumors and die, thats clinical depression ,and theres those that die after getting shot in the head-thats program suicide. And i for one think thats pretty obvious
RIP Claire, 13 years in this world
forever in my spirit
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I ran into a program sibling not too long ago. Crazy muthuh, he was. I took a job working for him in rental property development. The dude was just... scattered. He was buying up distressed properties on personal credit, complete at odds with himself. Said he was going to just bring the places up to Section 8 standards and take the government cheese. But he kept doing entirely fucked up things, like having us paint a room 4 times with the most expensive, kick ass paint till it was really well covered then rip the whole thing down and replace it with tile. Or take down a wall of new tile and replace it with something else. He'd spend several thousand on a pressure washer or some other really hardcore industrial equipment that, given the nature of the enterprise, there's just no way you'd ever get that kind of use out of it.
In the course of working w/ the dude, painting mostly, we got to talking about all kinds of things--loved to bs about politics and philosophy, this dude. The whole way he thought and even some of his vocabulary prompted me to ask him one day "Ok, which program were you in". Said the place was called Tomorrow or Today or something in Philly. Wasn't him, though, was his little brother.
Funny how I was able to recognize one of our own though, isn't it? The Program truly does involve the entire family. Maybe sibs and vets alike tend to lose our grip just because, having been so acculturated, we don't really fit in anywhere else. That's how I felt the whole time my older brothers and sisters were involved w/ the Seed.
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Well I might aggree that he might have committed suicide otherwise... however:
He was not suicidal prior to Benchmark
neither Was Jason, who was sent there for ADHD, slit his wrists two months into program.
Neither was Emily, who was caught by the night watchman on top of the apartment buildings ready to jump
Suicide attempts were so common at Benchmark they got the nickname "5150"... (ie. he/she 5150ed)... The standard punishment was to make the kid pay for the ambulance bill (usually around $900) by working it off at $2.50 an hour on weekends. This resulted in essentially permanent "work ethic" duty which didn't really help the situation much. Suicide attempts were seen as manipulations. Telling the staff "i'm feeling like slitting my wrists" resulted in a "go talk about it in group" or "what? are you looking for attention?!?! Go away!"
Shit, even I thought about it, and I was never suicidal prior to Benchmark. It was not an environment conducive to viewing one's self in a positive light (that would interfere with the program's goal of "breaking you down"). They turned us into animals, forced us to beat each-other down, rewarded us for being cruel. Some could take it, other's couldn't. Those that couldn't either took to the streets (prostitution, dealing, begging, whatever to survive), or they attempted suicide. A psych ward was a lot more peaceful than program according to those i have talked to who have tried. If you look at the interviews I've done, every single one mentions witnessing multiple suicide attempts. I know of two confirmed suicides, one in program one afterwards, as well as one person who claims there was a second in-program suicide. Why it didn't make the papers? Probably because the kids are (mostly) over 18.
A whole lot of em came from other programs (SUWS, CEDU, etc...).. and when you're in program you're entire life essentially, and it continues even after you turn 18, where is the hope for a normal existence... And when hope dies.. all sorts of things happen. You can give in, like I did, and let them erase your identity, you can leave, take to the streets, and come back broken, or you can end it all and hope for a better place... A lot of people I know took option #3. Some suceeded. Had they been given another option... one without program, one that involved self-worth, I believe things would have been different.
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it always amazes me that people dont get that
if you can "help" than you can "hurt"
if you can "save" you can "destroy"
If you can intervene and turn everything around in a good way
than you can intervene and turn everything around in a bad way
. I mean if thats not the case then why dont we all volenteer to live lives in prison, or have our limbs amputated, or to live the life of a diseased homeless prostitute? Afterall, its about "what we are inside" right? What we are inside is dictated by what we are on the outside. If our outside is bad enough long enough it will start affecting in a permanent and destructive way what we are on the inside
People arent rocks. They are living organisms that are formed by their surroundings. In brazilian rainforests we'd be eating our villages nightly communal supper now, if you were bought in the 1700s and brought to America youd have worked on a plantation and dies in obscurity, if you lived in the 1600s you'd be married at 13 and have children at 14 and work in feilds , or else youd be off to the convents. Men had a bit more variety-but not much. But thrughout history peoples live are pretty much dicatated by the society they live in.
Driving people to suicide is just the same just a little further out on the spectrum but can be affected just as easily and predictably. If not why not just tie your kid to a chair for the next 5 years, I mean as long as ya feed him...but in truth of course, we know what you do to a person affects their life quality both while its happeneing and after
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Whoa a minute, back up here!!
I never said programs don't cause so much distress as to make kids want to commit suicide, we know that can be the case, its a fact.
But then so it is a fact that people who haven't gone to programs do the same, shitty childhoods can get you that way even when you haven't been in a program, unfortunately as an adult, you have to carry that child within
I was having an adult debate here guest, about wether we can 100% blame programs for what may have happened anyway, suicide happens for all sorts of reasons and sometimes for none at all, I've done heaps of research on it, I really know my stuff when it comes to it as I was personally affected.
Not once did I say programs don't have that effect, I know they can do, I was merely pointing out that it may not have been the program at all, it may just be the way it was going to happen.
A little nugget for you - the child of a parent who has comitted suicide, is 80% more likely on average to do the same
Glad we cleared that up
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It's reasonable to hold programs accountable for most survivor suicides. Programs claim to treat depressions, suicidal ideation, and a host of other stuff they only make worse. The "survivor" may have been suicidal pre-program but the program denied them any real help and piled a heap a shit on an already sinking ship. Also experts on thought reform sight suicide as a risk.
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ok, if you please, this thread is meant to be a reberence and discussion thread ..not a "did it happen" thread...thanks
psy what happened to the twin
also, do you know what the parents of "karlye" and the sucides think afterwards
the program parents that I know are so abusive that they thought their kid was wrecked" to begin with. Ya know, the way the father of Nixmary Brown saw his daughter as so "wrecked" she needed "special" disipline- in a way that reflects their hatred of their own child, their projection of their inner darkness onto an innocent bystander...
do any of the parents put things together..my feeling is that,as they are terrible parents to begin with they never make the connections, adn are too lazy to do any investigations further once they do make the connections
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ok, if you please, this thread is meant to be a reberence and discussion thread ..not a "did it happen" thread...thanks
psy what happened to the twin
He killed himself right after program. AFAIK he "graduated"... they used his name "Seth H." in on of thier newsletters to the parents as a "sucess story" and that's after the fact. No.. of course the don't mention he killed himself directly after program.
I can no longer find his obituary using Google but I archive pretty much everything so i should have a copy around somewhere.
also, do you know what the parents of "karlye" and the sucides think afterwards
What happened after the twin killed himself? They had a special group (rap ultra-lite) for the parents, comforting them and showing them what a loving place it is... When they posted his obituary they suggested sending wreaths and flowers to Benchmark...
Kid named George jumped off a bridge onto his head (allegedly after a harsh confrontation from staff) about 30 feet from program (not on property technically) They held a group to help his family grieve (ie... not sue)
you can probably fill in the blanks.
the program parents that I know are so abusive that they thought their kid was wrecked" to begin with. Ya know, the way the father of Nixmary Brown saw his daughter as so "wrecked" she needed "special" disipline- in a way that reflects their hatred of their own child, their projection of their inner darkness onto an innocent bystander...
do any of the parents put things together..my feeling is that,as they are terrible parents to begin with they never make the connections, adn are too lazy to do any investigations further once they do make the connections
Lazy... maybe they don't believe thier kids becuase they would sometimes lie. Program knows they can do whatever the hell they want to a boy who cried wolf. In any case.. yes. The parents do have responsibility for not investigating... especially after dismissing accusations of mistreatment as "manipulations".. The biggest program blanket excuse of all time...
but yeah.. there are some fucked up and totally evil parents who just don't give a fuck.
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Well I might aggree that he might have committed suicide otherwise... however:
He was not suicidal prior to Benchmark
neither Was Jason, who was sent there for ADHD, slit his wrists two months into program.
Neither was Emily, who was caught by the night watchman on top of the apartment buildings ready to jump
Suicide attempts were so common at Benchmark they got the nickname "5150"... (ie. he/she 5150ed)... The standard punishment was to make the kid pay for the ambulance bill (usually around $900) by working it off at $2.50 an hour on weekends. This resulted in essentially permanent "work ethic" duty which didn't really help the situation much. Suicide attempts were seen as manipulations. Telling the staff "i'm feeling like slitting my wrists" resulted in a "go talk about it in group" or "what? are you looking for attention?!?! Go away!"
Shit, even I thought about it, and I was never suicidal prior to Benchmark. It was not an environment conducive to viewing one's self in a positive light (that would interfere with the program's goal of "breaking you down"). They turned us into animals, forced us to beat each-other down, rewarded us for being cruel. Some could take it, other's couldn't. Those that couldn't either took to the streets (prostitution, dealing, begging, whatever to survive), or they attempted suicide. A psych ward was a lot more peaceful than program according to those i have talked to who have tried. If you look at the interviews I've done, every single one mentions witnessing multiple suicide attempts. I know of two confirmed suicides, one in program one afterwards, as well as one person who claims there was a second in-program suicide. Why it didn't make the papers? Probably because the kids are (mostly) over 18.
A whole lot of em came from other programs (SUWS, CEDU, etc...).. and when you're in program you're entire life essentially, and it continues even after you turn 18, where is the hope for a normal existence... And when hope dies.. all sorts of things happen. You can give in, like I did, and let them erase your identity, you can leave, take to the streets, and come back broken, or you can end it all and hope for a better place... A lot of people I know took option #3. Some suceeded. Had they been given another option... one without program, one that involved self-worth, I believe things would have been different.
I respect your point, but if one person could tell when another is suicidal, there would be fewer suicides, don't you think? You really can't claim a person was not suicidal. Many times, there is no warning whatsoever--especially when the intention is really to die.
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Well I might aggree that he might have committed suicide otherwise... however:
He was not suicidal prior to Benchmark
neither Was Jason, who was sent there for ADHD, slit his wrists two months into program.
Neither was Emily, who was caught by the night watchman on top of the apartment buildings ready to jump
Suicide attempts were so common at Benchmark they got the nickname "5150"... (ie. he/she 5150ed)... The standard punishment was to make the kid pay for the ambulance bill (usually around $900) by working it off at $2.50 an hour on weekends. This resulted in essentially permanent "work ethic" duty which didn't really help the situation much. Suicide attempts were seen as manipulations. Telling the staff "i'm feeling like slitting my wrists" resulted in a "go talk about it in group" or "what? are you looking for attention?!?! Go away!"
Shit, even I thought about it, and I was never suicidal prior to Benchmark. It was not an environment conducive to viewing one's self in a positive light (that would interfere with the program's goal of "breaking you down"). They turned us into animals, forced us to beat each-other down, rewarded us for being cruel. Some could take it, other's couldn't. Those that couldn't either took to the streets (prostitution, dealing, begging, whatever to survive), or they attempted suicide. A psych ward was a lot more peaceful than program according to those i have talked to who have tried. If you look at the interviews I've done, every single one mentions witnessing multiple suicide attempts. I know of two confirmed suicides, one in program one afterwards, as well as one person who claims there was a second in-program suicide. Why it didn't make the papers? Probably because the kids are (mostly) over 18.
A whole lot of em came from other programs (SUWS, CEDU, etc...).. and when you're in program you're entire life essentially, and it continues even after you turn 18, where is the hope for a normal existence... And when hope dies.. all sorts of things happen. You can give in, like I did, and let them erase your identity, you can leave, take to the streets, and come back broken, or you can end it all and hope for a better place... A lot of people I know took option #3. Some suceeded. Had they been given another option... one without program, one that involved self-worth, I believe things would have been different.
I respect your point, but if one person could tell when another is suicidal, there would be fewer suicides, don't you think? You really can't claim a person was not suicidal. Many times, there is no warning whatsoever--especially when the intention is really to die.
I don't know where to start with that one... There was plenty of warning. plenty. Staff dismissed it as a manipulation to get attention etc... You just don't do that... (for obvious reasons) but since a good portion of benchmark's staff (and i mean counselors) don't even have high school diplomas... eeh.. lack of education isn't an excuse. nevermind that. They have blood on their hands, it's pure and simple.
I never realized how bad Benchmark was until I found fornits... it seemed bad... i knew it was bad.. but i didn't quite know how to quantify it... I used to think it was "lite" compared to other places and then i interview a girl who went to SUWS in Idaho.. and she said it was a picknic compared to Benchmark Young Adult School.
And despite the ambulances I saw, those i knew, and know who rode in them... looking into Redlands police and ambulance records shows no visits to the State St apartments... Fucking incredible.. Jayne Selby Longnecker... Director of benchmark... I knew Jayne's family (son et. al) worked for the Redlands popo but I had no idea they would stoop so low... Oh this just keeps getting bigger and better. And yeah I will allege that the ambulance records were tampered with. So fuck you Jayne Longnecker. Like I said before, you can't erase the human evidence. Please... please ple plse pleeeaaaase.. sue me ... Let me bring George's parents in to ask em some questions.. or seth's brother, who I knew very well... Oh... and that one person, the most credible, the last person you would expect to testify... or... JASON... ahahahahahahah ... you know exactly what I am talking about... and Don't think Jorge hasn't been stupid enough to brag... and the list goes on, and on, and on... and you know the bell is tolling for you... I've been busy, bitch.
Oh... and when you get to jail. Your cellmate will rape you violently. Believe that. And that will be for Brian.
sorry folks for that display of program love... I'm afraid i've slipped into pure rage mode after some recent revelations which will become public in time...
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It certainly does not stretch anyone's imagination that being placed in a program might be the cause of suicidal thoughts or of suicide as a form of escape. The problem is proving it. It would be almost impossible to win such a case in a court of law.
Programs take great care to remove the means to prevent suicide. They would argue these precautions are necessary due to the nature of their prisoners. We might argue these precautions are necessry due to the nature of the program. Perhaps both arguments are correct.
But, if you could prove cause and effect, you could shut a place down quick.
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It certainly does not stretch anyone's imagination that being placed in a program might be the cause of suicidal thoughts or of suicide as a form of escape. The problem is proving it. It would be almost impossible to win such a case in a court of law.
Programs take great care to remove the means to prevent suicide. They would argue these precautions are necessary due to the nature of their prisoners. We might argue these precautions are necessry due to the nature of the program. Perhaps both arguments are correct.
But, if you could prove cause and effect, you could shut a place down quick.
prooving it would actually be fairly easy if you had a somewhat involved parent and a somewhat honest prosecutor (thats the rub eh)
I can think of 3 instances off the top of my head where a caregiver was imprisoned for driving a youth to suicide, one where a mother kept a filthy house and was not respondant to her daughters emotional needs regarding being bullied, one where a mother forced her daughter to work as a stripper (and the dauther was 18 when she died) and one case where parents were negligent in terms of providing adequate cloting an emotional assistance...so there you have 3 cases where the abuse is no where near as horrible as the least abusisve program. Ultimately, No matter how shitty a parent you are, you cant top the inevitable inasnity that comes from an environment where prople are paid to make a child ssuffer on a 24/7 basis.
All it will take to prosecute is the one involved family member and the one honest DA......tic toc tic toc
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Well, the argument is totally irrevelant.
No child should be in any program regardless of their potential of commiting suicide.
Yes, I am back once again, hoping to stay this time,lol.
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yes, im looking for people who have experience with their "better half" and people they are entwined with commiting suicide after program
i fell like I have completely lost my mind. Similar to how it feels in program, like my consciousness (sp) has been altered. I am always in pain so terrible that I cant concentrate. I am "stuck" inside myself. I dont have a normal "sense" of time. I always feel "degraded: like Im getting raped....Its hard to explain its a feeling of rage so powerful but twisted. I would go after program but am too weak now for health reasons.Its an unlivable existance and am planning on suicide- Im not saying that to "talked out of it" or to discuss it, its just that there is no future and all there is at present and past is agony. Amazing ...I was always ao strong one. I took anything.. abusive parents, isolation,the works.....Now I am one of those people I never understood. I am an emissiary from planet damaged speaking the language I never understood. And I am trapped here forever ...I think
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ok, if you please, this thread is meant to be a reberence and discussion thread ..not a "did it happen" thread...thanks
psy what happened to the twin
He killed himself right after program. AFAIK he "graduated"... they used his name "Seth H." in on of thier newsletters to the parents as a "sucess story" and that's after the fact. No.. of course the don't mention he killed himself directly after program.
I can no longer find his obituary using Google but I archive pretty much everything so i should have a copy around somewhere.
also, do you know what the parents of "karlye" and the sucides think afterwards
What happened after the twin killed himself? They had a special group (rap ultra-lite) for the parents, comforting them and showing them what a loving place it is... When they posted his obituary they suggested sending wreaths and flowers to Benchmark...
Kid named George jumped off a bridge onto his head (allegedly after a harsh confrontation from staff) about 30 feet from program (not on property technically) They held a group to help his family grieve (ie... not sue)
you can probably fill in the blanks.
the program parents that I know are so abusive that they thought their kid was wrecked" to begin with. Ya know, the way the father of Nixmary Brown saw his daughter as so "wrecked" she needed "special" disipline- in a way that reflects their hatred of their own child, their projection of their inner darkness onto an innocent bystander...
do any of the parents put things together..my feeling is that,as they are terrible parents to begin with they never make the connections, adn are too lazy to do any investigations further once they do make the connections
Lazy... maybe they don't believe thier kids becuase they would sometimes lie. Program knows they can do whatever the hell they want to a boy who cried wolf. In any case.. yes. The parents do have responsibility for not investigating... especially after dismissing accusations of mistreatment as "manipulations".. The biggest program blanket excuse of all time...
but yeah.. there are some fucked up and totally evil parents who just don't give a fuck.
These parents I know are that sort of parent. They are fucked up and totally evil. But at the same time they "loved" this kid that commited suicide.
They dont persue things for the same reason they didnt keep the kid at home..they are too lazy to do anything else. What I mean by "lazy" is that they are abnormally limited emotionally, mentally and spritiutally with what they can devote to their children both before and after they kill them.
To know that porgram hurt him, they would have had to see him accurately before program- which they were incapable of. They were abusive, they were blind to the indescribable beauty of their own child.
To know that program hurt him, they would have to have had an honest open loving dialogue with him. They were incaplable of that.
They do not have the nuturing instinct. They dont extend acts of "care" . Whatever opprotunity for their shadow of "care" being enough to engage with their kid was destroyed by program. Their kid had lost any trust in the parents and now that he'd been damaged by program he needed a more sensitve ear than even normal children need .
To go after the program now would require emotional recorces they simply lack. These parents have all the cash in the world but very lttle heart. Programs both bank on that, and take that to the bank.
To go after program would entail personal soul searching with what they find being unpleasant ,and investment of time spent in fashion also unplesant, on a topic very unpleasent.
These parents are not willing and unable to do basic acts of nuturing. They do not have it in them to do extradinary acts of ordinary decency.
It is not their fault and completely their fault, like all nutty parents who murders their children. But it's sadder because had these parents been protected from thelseves by laws that protect children they couldnt have carried their well-intended insanity to its bloody conclusion
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yes, im looking for people who have experience with their "better half" and people they are entwined with commiting suicide after program
i fell like I have completely lost my mind. Similar to how it feels in program, like my consciousness (sp) has been altered. I am always in pain so terrible that I cant concentrate. I am "stuck" inside myself. I dont have a normal "sense" of time. I always feel "degraded: like Im getting raped....Its hard to explain its a feeling of rage so powerful but twisted. I would go after program but am too weak now for health reasons.Its an unlivable existance and am planning on suicide- Im not saying that to "talked out of it" or to discuss it, its just that there is no future and all there is at present and past is agony. Amazing ...I was always ao strong one. I took anything.. abusive parents, isolation,the works.....Now I am one of those people I never understood. I am an emissiary from planet damaged speaking the language I never understood. And I am trapped here forever ...I think
Having been there myself what you say makes perfect sense. I had a 5 yr bout of severe clinical depression and it felt like I existed outside of the "real world". It was like being a ghost watching the living world swirl around me but not being able to do anything more. It wasn't like I was boo whooooing for 5 yrs. it was more like a slow burn and at worse grieving. The weirdest thing is that once it ended(so I thought) I couldn't remember how it felt or why I felt the way I did. Now it's more like a dream(nightmare) then a real memory.
but, yeah... I've been there...........
and thought, "What the FUCK!!"
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yes, im looking for people who have experience with their "better half" and people they are entwined with commiting suicide after program
i fell like I have completely lost my mind. Similar to how it feels in program, like my consciousness (sp) has been altered. I am always in pain so terrible that I cant concentrate. I am "stuck" inside myself. I dont have a normal "sense" of time. I always feel "degraded: like Im getting raped....Its hard to explain its a feeling of rage so powerful but twisted. I would go after program but am too weak now for health reasons.Its an unlivable existance and am planning on suicide- Im not saying that to "talked out of it" or to discuss it, its just that there is no future and all there is at present and past is agony. Amazing ...I was always ao strong one. I took anything.. abusive parents, isolation,the works.....Now I am one of those people I never understood. I am an emissiary from planet damaged speaking the language I never understood. And I am trapped here forever ...I think
Well PM me if you feel like trying one last thing. If you're really going to commit suicide no matter what... do us all a favor and take somebody like Litchfield or Sembler out when you do... kidding.. really . i swear ...
Seriously... There is a way to un-fuck your head... it takes time... I know how you feel.. They raped your mind. You don't have to explain, most of have been through the same shit, and there is a way out.. it's through.. PM/im/email me if you feel like talking about it and trying one last thing.
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bump