Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Covergaard on March 27, 2007, 02:53:48 AM

Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Covergaard on March 27, 2007, 02:53:48 AM
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-6507942.html?rss (http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-6507942.html?rss) (In Danish)

In Denmark we generallly acknowledge that most people can be put in two catagories, when it comes to how they sleep:

Type A: wakes up early, going to bed early
Type B: wakes up late, going to bed late.

Out in the workplace, flex-time takes care of the problem. A lot of shops often close down about 8 or 9 p.m, so there are jobs for people of type B. But the education system has not in the past given possibilities for type B people. That is changing now. Now a new high school is opening, where the first class starts at 1.30 p.m.

So we are going to establish kindergardens, public schools and high school for those people, who does not sleep as our culture demands.

How about that?
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 05:08:49 AM
What about a school for chicken fuckers? You gonna handle that also?





Truth be told.. Your system sounds fucking retarded and an excessive demand on the teachers.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Ursus on March 27, 2007, 05:23:26 AM
Sounds interesting (the school, not the chicken afficionados).. . This will no doubt be very accommodating for parents who are working the later shifts (and, e.g., who have kindergarteners).  But it does rather make me feel a little cynical about a world where both parents need to work in order to survive financially... (and hence need schools to work around their schedules as there is no flexibility with both working).
Title: Think about that
Post by: Covergaard on March 27, 2007, 05:25:33 AM
What if the teachers share sleeping habits with the students? We have to acknowledge that we are living in 2007. The world is not stopped while we are asleep.

Some of the work in my project is done in the Far East. I am not at work while they program their 8 hours per day. In fact they are 6 time zones away from me, so I would be in bed when they goes home from work. Luckily I have a person at my company, who goes home from work about 10 p.m. or later, so he keeps the communication going for as long as he can and I get fresh material to work with, when I start on work in the morning.

We need people, who sleep the whole morning away.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Oz girl on March 27, 2007, 05:42:13 AM
Those who work in finance also sometimes work crazy hours as well. I am intruiged by this.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: mbnh31782 on March 27, 2007, 06:07:10 AM
I am not a morning person... though mind you,  i'm posting this at 6 am eastern standard time in the united states.  I'm only up at this hour because i HAVE to be thanks to my job.  I think that a later school would be a wonderful idea.  it would also alleviate the issue of overcrowding in public schools.  If i had my way, i wouldnt wake up until about 10 am or 10:30 am and go to bed between 1 and 3 am.  i'm typically a night owl, but unfortunately due to my job (school bus driver) I have to be up early.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Truth Searcher on March 27, 2007, 06:31:09 AM
I have read studies that show teenagers biological clocks actually are more in tune with type B.  And that staying up late ... wanting to sleep late are more the result of physiological make up than sleep choices.  The researchers in the one study actually poised the question ... (very paraphrased) that if this is the natural sleep order of teenagers, then why do our high schools operate from 7:30 until 2:30?  

Well probably because this works better for the adult teacher and administrators and because this is the format for the average American work day.

Many colleges understand this.   Many (if not most) college classes do not meet until 9 AM or after ... and most offer many night classes.  

Interesting concept.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 06:46:34 AM
I think this is a fantastic idea!
Title: Europe vs US
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 07:14:22 AM
In several things, the US doesn't behave the same as in Europe, you would think they would more but they dont. The system described by the poster does sound interesting. I dont see where it would cause any harm, but it is definately different from anything we have here. When I lived in Spain as a child, I went to a British private day school. It was very small, maybe, 200 students total. It was 1st through 5th grade. Several Americans attended, as well as Australians, Brits, and some half Spanish half British children. But to me, coming from the US, our hours were odd. We didnt start until 9 am, and didnt get out until 4pm. We had a long midday lunch/playtime about an hour and a half. Spanish businesses mostly opened around the same time, 9 or 9:30 (stores and offices both), but all closed for lunch, for either an hour and a half or 2 hours. Then offices would stay open until 6 or 7 pm. Stores stayed open later, til about 10pm. People ate dinner between 8 and 10pm. It all seemed odd to me but perfectly normal to them. With the midday rest (siesta) it really didnt seem weird staying up so long once you got used to it. I think its all in what your culture is used to. What seems normal to us probably seems odd to Europeans also.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Deborah on March 27, 2007, 11:08:41 AM
In our district Elementary is 7:45-2:45, Middle at 8:30-3:30, and High School at 9:00-4:15.
One complaint I frequently hear from all ages is not enough time to eat and not enough play time. I like the scenario you described Shh with the longer lunch/playtime.
The high school my older son attended for a while was as large as a small community college and they had 30 minutes for lunch. Many kids didn't eat because by the time they walked across campus, stood in the lengthy lunch line, they had about 10 minutes to eat and no social time. Social trumped eating.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: nimdA on March 27, 2007, 11:46:46 AM
More than likely I think in the states there will be a push for more at home internet based learning. The student to teacher ratio is stressed to much at the moment. If they had the ability to retain teachers no doubt this idea might well have been tried out years ago.

With that assinine No Child left behind bullshit it is even harder to keep teachers around. Kids aren't even really learning much of anything anymore with the exception of how to pass a Government test. Sounds like public education is going the way of the Japanese and Korean style of regurgitate it as you go learning. I hear china is into that also.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: TheWho on March 27, 2007, 12:00:04 PM
Our area is looking into extending the school day by as much as 2 hours.  They have started a few pilot programs in some school districts where the kids are falling behind and extended the school day to 8 hours.  Many of the kids like it because they can get more attention from teachers who previously would not answer questions until after class or after hours, now the classes are more instructive and interactive.  Lunch hour has been extended and music is being reintroduced onto some schools which has been pushed aside by state requirements like sex education etc.
If successful this may spread more throughout the state.  It is expensive, though, with the increase in salary and admin costs.  So there is equal pressure on each side???? it will be interesting to see which way this goes.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Anonymous on March 27, 2007, 04:31:51 PM
Oh those teacher unions will be screaming and shouting the roofs off, won't they?  EXPECTING teachers to teach a full 8 hours a day? How dare they!
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Nihilanthic on March 27, 2007, 04:34:20 PM
Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""
I have read studies that show teenagers biological clocks actually are more in tune with type B.  And that staying up late ... wanting to sleep late are more the result of physiological make up than sleep choices.  The researchers in the one study actually poised the question ... (very paraphrased) that if this is the natural sleep order of teenagers, then why do our high schools operate from 7:30 until 2:30?  

Well probably because this works better for the adult teacher and administrators and because this is the format for the average American work day.

Many colleges understand this.   Many (if not most) college classes do not meet until 9 AM or after ... and most offer many night classes.  

Interesting concept.


I always saw it as just controlfreakery and conditioning people to just do as told becuase "it just has to be done" without thinking too much.

Well, that and mix in a lil protestant work ethic  :roll: god knows that works better than rationality, 'cause god said so!
Title: Re: Think about that
Post by: Antigen on March 27, 2007, 04:37:54 PM
Quote from: ""Covergaard""
We need people, who sleep the whole morning away.


Thanks for the affirmation. And no, I don't do chickens.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Antigen on March 27, 2007, 04:45:47 PM
Gook, they're already doing online school.
Google Online Highschool (http://http://www.google.com/search?q=online+highschool&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Nihilanthic on March 27, 2007, 05:25:29 PM
I approve of this so much...

Anyone ever figure out being up later might have been for evolutionary reasons? If all the morning birds sleep who'se gonna watch out at night?

Oh, wait...
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Ursus on March 28, 2007, 06:20:28 AM
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
...With that assinine No Child left behind bullshit it is even harder to keep teachers around. Kids aren't even really learning much of anything anymore with the exception of how to pass a Government test. Sounds like public education is going the way of the Japanese and Korean style of regurgitate it as you go learning. I hear china is into that also.

Ain't that the truth!  It's becoming a really unhealthy control-oriented atmosphere!  Whatever happened to rewarding intellectual curiosity as the basis for learning?
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Nihilanthic on March 28, 2007, 02:48:11 PM
What the fuckety fuck do ya THINK happened to it??
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Antigen on March 28, 2007, 05:35:03 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Ain't that the truth!  It's becoming a really unhealthy control-oriented atmosphere!  Whatever happened to rewarding intellectual curiosity as the basis for learning?


Government sponsored compulsory schooling.

John Taylor Gatto has a good deal to say about that.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
More than likely I think in the states there will be a push for more at home internet based learning. The student to teacher ratio is stressed to much at the moment. If they had the ability to retain teachers no doubt this idea might well have been tried out years ago.


I'm all for internet-based learning -- but as a supplement, not as a substitute for live interaction with other students and a teachers in classrooms.

Does anyone wonder why so many Programs use computer-based education? They usually have some stupid euphemism for it like "self-paced curriculum." My guess is it's a helluva lot cheaper than hiring enough teachers to cover the breadth of a real high school education from 9th-12th grade in all the usual subjects.

Just another indication that no matter what kind of "school" name the Program calls itself, it isn't much like a real school, even during the time periods where the kids are supposedly "in school" (instead of in group or whatever). Is there any survivor out there who doesn't feel like they got shafted on their education during their time in Program?
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: nimdA on March 28, 2007, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
More than likely I think in the states there will be a push for more at home internet based learning. The student to teacher ratio is stressed to much at the moment. If they had the ability to retain teachers no doubt this idea might well have been tried out years ago.

I'm all for internet-based learning -- but as a supplement, not as a substitute for live interaction with other students and a teachers in classrooms.

Does anyone wonder why so many Programs use computer-based education? They usually have some stupid euphemism for it like "self-paced curriculum." My guess is it's a helluva lot cheaper than hiring enough teachers to cover the breadth of a real high school education from 9th-12th grade in all the usual subjects.

Just another indication that no matter what kind of "school" name the Program calls itself, it isn't much like a real school, even during the time periods where the kids are supposedly "in school" (instead of in group or whatever). Is there any survivor out there who doesn't feel like they got shafted on their education during their time in Program?



Agreed.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Antigen on March 28, 2007, 09:39:14 PM
I think it has more to do with drawing the homeschoolers back into the tracking and reporting systems and keeping them bored and busy. I'm not a big fan of online schooling. I think real life is far better. When my kids were homeschooled, their 'online learning' came from muds, FARK, chat, ripping music and finding lyrics etc. to get up to speed on technique and method; they learned the basic skills in order to be able to do and play and be che cool knowing all the lyrics to all their favorite songs and such. So whenever they wanted or needed to know something else it was just the most natural thing for them to look it up on the net.

While I really, really dislike the particular social skills and customs the schools teach, it was very difficult to find anybody near their own ages to hang out with who was not either locked up in school or had any clue what to do with themselves w/o  a teacher, a bell or a clique leader to tell them what to do when they weren't.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Oz girl on March 28, 2007, 09:49:29 PM
You know kids here who live in the middle of nowhere and rthus cant attend a real school do this think called school of the air where they take instruction for a few hours a day over the radio and interact with other kids in a "virtual" classrooom. It has been around for a really long time now. This sounds not dissimilar to internet based learning.
http://www.schools.nt.edu.au/ksa/ (http://www.schools.nt.edu.au/ksa/)
http://www.emerge.net.au/~kalsota/information.htm (http://www.emerge.net.au/~kalsota/information.htm)
http://www.schoolair-p.schools.nsw.edu.au/ (http://www.schoolair-p.schools.nsw.edu.au/)
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: TheWho on March 28, 2007, 09:58:33 PM
If anything I think it is better to move in the other direction (unschooling).  I have met some remarkable kids who never learned the alphabet until the age 5 and didn?t start any formal education until later than that.  These kids were busy with life and exploring, visiting museums, grabbing some social skills here and there during swim lessons and soccer practice, music lessons and they are more secure and settled than your average home schooled kid with a structured ?Calvert School? curriculum.
What I struggle with most is how to introduce the internet and what they should be exposed to?many parents with the homeshool mentality (myself included) want to severely limit the internet as they would television?..should it be treated as television and strictly limited (of course it should be monitored) but I don?t think many parents know how to direct their child or introduce them to on-line activity or know how much is too much?. It is a skill they will need in their future but there is not much advice out there for parents that I know of.
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 11:26:07 PM
Have you ever heard of a internet game called Second Life?
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: Anonymous on March 28, 2007, 11:31:55 PM
The Who needs the Game: Get a LIfe

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: First Danish school for children who does not get up early.
Post by: TheWho on March 29, 2007, 09:07:28 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Have you ever heard of a internet game called Second Life?


No I havent, Is it like the "Sim city" game?  My daughter use to play with that sometimes.