Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Deborah on March 26, 2007, 10:49:10 AM
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The court issued a ruling regarding HLA's counterclaim against the original named plaintiffs:
"The ruling dismisses defendant HLA Inc.'s counterclaim against the original named plaintiffs. The court held that the contractual clause on which HLA's counterclaim was based violated Georgia public policy."
Basically the clause in HLA's contract that tried to contractually indemnify HLA from all costs and attorneys' fees (Parents would have to pay all of HLA's attorneys' fees if the parents sued HLA) is considered a violation of Georgia public policy. Parents will not have to pay HLA costs and attorneys' fees should the parent sue HLA.
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Awwwww...I'll bet all those legal fees just became a whole lot more pressing.
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Good News! This is how it should be. Glad to hear that parents can go ahead with their suits against HLA with a no retaliation problem. :exclaim:
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Great news for the parents, they must be breathing easier!!
I would guess HLA was all ready prepared to have them thrown out? the contract wording was old and outdated
Attorney fee clauses and the like are being more and more thrown out of court especially when an individual or group of individuals are going up against a corporation. These clauses are put in there to scare people from suing, but have not been successful (in many cases) in recovery unless one corporation is suing another (or landlord/tenant cases). If the judge allowed this clause to stand then the people would be responsible for not just the attorneys fee but all associated costs that HLA incurred over and above the attorneys fee, including expert witness fees, payments for court reporters, fees for filing documents with the court, as well as costs of travel, printing, photocopying, postage, telephone, and messenger services etc..
This could add up to such a substantial amount that the families could go bankrupt and lose their homes so courts are throwing them out??. What they are writing in contracts now is a attorney fee with a ?Cap? so that people suing would be liable for up to a certain amount of say $100,000 so that families are not wiped out. Many contracts are responding this way to appease the courts.
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When did you read the HLA contract?
According to my source, it doesn't matter what the contract says if you are defrauded, the contract becomes null and void.
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(He didn't)
You see Deb, Cindy has read a contract before, thus he believes himself to be an expert on all contracts.
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Great news for the parents, they must be breathing easier!!
I would guess HLA was all ready prepared to have them thrown out? the contract wording was old and outdated
Attorney fee clauses and the like are being more and more thrown out of court especially when an individual or group of individuals are going up against a corporation. These clauses are put in there to scare people from suing, but have not been successful (in many cases) in recovery unless one corporation is suing another (or landlord/tenant cases). If the judge allowed this clause to stand then the people would be responsible for not just the attorneys fee but all associated costs that HLA incurred over and above the attorneys fee, including expert witness fees, payments for court reporters, fees for filing documents with the court, as well as costs of travel, printing, photocopying, postage, telephone, and messenger services etc..
This could add up to such a substantial amount that the families could go bankrupt and lose their homes so courts are throwing them out??. What they are writing in contracts now is a attorney fee with a ?Cap? so that people suing would be liable for up to a certain amount of say $100,000 so that families are not wiped out. Many contracts are responding this way to appease the courts.
HLA's new contract no longer contains this language - probably on the advice of their high paid attorneys.
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Great news for the parents, they must be breathing easier!!
I would guess HLA was all ready prepared to have them thrown out? the contract wording was old and outdated
Attorney fee clauses and the like are being more and more thrown out of court especially when an individual or group of individuals are going up against a corporation. These clauses are put in there to scare people from suing, but have not been successful (in many cases) in recovery unless one corporation is suing another (or landlord/tenant cases). If the judge allowed this clause to stand then the people would be responsible for not just the attorneys fee but all associated costs that HLA incurred over and above the attorneys fee, including expert witness fees, payments for court reporters, fees for filing documents with the court, as well as costs of travel, printing, photocopying, postage, telephone, and messenger services etc..
This could add up to such a substantial amount that the families could go bankrupt and lose their homes so courts are throwing them out??. What they are writing in contracts now is a attorney fee with a ?Cap? so that people suing would be liable for up to a certain amount of say $100,000 so that families are not wiped out. Many contracts are responding this way to appease the courts.
HLA's new contract no longer contains this language - probably on the advice of their high paid attorneys.
Thanks, guest, Thats what I thought and we have changed the writing in our contracts when it doesn?t apply to another corporation. No judge wants to award these types of fees and see a person lose their homes because of a lost lawsuit against a large corporation. Tenant/landlord contracts still carry it to avoid nuisance lawsuits which can keep the landlord tied up for ever and go bankrupt, I believe this is where the clause originally grew out of.
Just curious did they eliminate it all together or place a cap on it so they can recoup a portion of the attorneys fees in the event the plaintiff fails to make a case or loses the lawsuit?
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They can't collect a penny.
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Hopefully more parents and students will come forward to take action against the school now that the fee shifting has been deemed to be in violation of GA. public policy.
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They can't collect a penny.
I realize the status of this lawsuit that it was thrown out??I meant the wording of the new contracts...just curious to know if they eliminated the clause altogether or reworded it to ?cap? it off at a ceiling price.
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YaY!!!
It's so wonderful watching a program choke on it's own bullshit
*eyes welling up with tears of joy*
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They can't collect a penny.
I realize the status of this lawsuit that it was thrown out??I meant the wording of the new contracts...just curious to know if they eliminated the clause altogether or reworded it to ?cap? it off at a ceiling price.
The clause has been eliminated in its entirety because it is a violation of public policy.
Why do you have such a big interest in HLA? You didn't have a child attend HLA so what's your motive? Are you involved with another program and just fishing for information to try to protect them? In the past you've pretty much defended your precious TBS's - your new found support doesn't seem sincere and I don't trust you.
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Who is not here to be supportive. Read carefully.
Everyone should be protected from fivolous lawsuit, and they are. Anyone has the right to request that their attorney fees be paid by the plaintiff if the suit has no merit, with or without any contract clause.
In this case, it's like asking a rape victim to cover the perpetrator's legal expenses.
How many parents has that clause stopped from acting?
I think it's been very effective for the purpose it was intended.
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Why do you have such a big interest in HLA? You didn't have a child attend HLA so what's your motive? Are you involved with another program and just fishing for information to try to protect them? In the past you've pretty much defended your precious TBS's - your new found support doesn't seem sincere and I don't trust you.
I am interested in the details of the outcome of this lawsuit. I believe it could be a small landmark case which will affect the industry and shape the way schools apply (or don?t apply) for licenses and if the schools will gradually adjust their model to a more clinical one (as a result) which can eventually be measured for effectiveness based on a feedback system. I believe this is the future of many of these schools especially as they begin to get more and more specialized in their acceptance of children to insure success.
I know many people here believe I defend all TBSs and the reason, I believe, is that many here feel they are all are evil and may find it hard to believe some may be good and others may be bad. I support some programs which I am familiar with, not the whole industry, as many here believe.
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He also believes less than 1% of all kids enrolled in TBS's are ever abused, so in his mind none of them are bad.
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Seems I have my own personal statistician ?.errr?. I mean troll? I am trying to limit my responses to him, but in the mean time I apologize.
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For what, dismissing all those kids claims of abuse?
All I can say is it's about time.
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To "The Who":
Have you ever bothered to contact the state of Georgia to find out whether or not HLA had the proper licensure? It's not too hard to do - you obviously have a computer and access to the Internet.
You and others claim HLA's new licensure will make them more marketable - if this is the case, then why did HLA fight being licensed by the state of Georgia for so many years?
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To "The Who":
Have you ever bothered to contact the state of Georgia to find out whether or not HLA had the proper licensure? It's not too hard to do - you obviously have a computer and access to the Internet.
You and others claim HLA's new licensure will make them more marketable - if this is the case, then why did HLA fight being licensed by the state of Georgia for so many years?
Obviously because it will be more of a hassle for them and they will now have someone to answer to. As has been said on here before, HLA greatest weakness is Len Buccellato's narcisism. He does not want to answer to anyone. It took something like this to force compliance. Make no mistake, he is hating it.
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To "The Who":
Have you ever bothered to contact the state of Georgia to find out whether or not HLA had the proper licensure? It's not too hard to do - you obviously have a computer and access to the Internet.
You and others claim HLA's new licensure will make them more marketable - if this is the case, then why did HLA fight being licensed by the state of Georgia for so many years?
It is a hassle to have to conform to another system besides your own. You may have the best practices but they need to be changed to conform to the license agreement. Fees need to be paid, records need to be kept a certain way, documents need to be stored and copies made and delivered to state agencies.
There are costs associated with the license that are not seen and another head count may need to be added cover all the requirements. I am sure no one feels bad for a corporation that needs to spend the extra money but if you feel it isn?t doing any good or adding value to the children why would you embrace it? In many people minds the added red tape may actually decrease the effectiveness of the services provided, raise the cost of tuition and add no benefit to the bottom line which is the children.
I am not saying licensing is bad, if a school is below standards then being licensed would add value, but many feel it drags down many schools who are servicing the children well.
But once you are submitting to the license requirements why not use this as a marketing tool to show you are commiting to a higher standard to grab a larger share of the market and recoup some you loses or burdens by being licensed? Display it proudly on your web site!!
Vertually every company that is ISO9000 certified was forced to be so by thier customers or they would lose their business, this is not unique to the TBS industry.
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It is a hassle to have to conform to another system besides your own. You may have the best practices but they need to be changed to conform to the license agreement. Fees need to be paid, records need to be kept a certain way, documents need to be stored and copies made and delivered to state agencies. There are costs associated with the license that are not seen and another head count may need to be added cover all the requirements.
Is there ever an end to your bullshit?
Go read the regs and then justify your claims of hardship and expense associated with being licensed. Just c&p from the regs any requirement that might be anywhere near the burden you are attempting to spin.
Is there a fee, Who? How much is it?
Documents need to be stored? Huh? Elaborate.
'Copies' of what need to be made and delivered to what state agencies?
How are records to be kept 'in a certain way'?
Is that an admission that programs currently are not keeping adequate records or storing them properly?
Would a parent really want to spend $6000 for ANY kind of 'treatment' in a facility that doesn't keep accurate records on things such as when and what meds were dispensed, when and what kind of punishment a child receives, a basic service plan (rather than a one-size-fits-all-new-agey-bullshit-synanon/est/CEDU-approach), background checks on employees, documentation of teacher/staff credentials. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK for 6 grand a month? Besides, MOST parents are under the assumption that, for that price, the program is operating above board with the proper licenses and credentials.
Besides, they've been leading the public to believe that they were 'monitored' by their accrediting agencies. Do those agencies require any documentation? If they do, then no additional burden. If not, why? And all the more reason to have state oversight.
I'm sure it will be an inconvenience to report to the state when someone is physically or sexually assaulted or attempts suicide or endures a broken arm due to restraint, etcetc, if they decide to operate in compliance with the law. They may also choose not to report such incidents and risk getting caught. They could always plead ignorance like the knuckleheads at RC did.
You, and they, may not feel that this 'adds value', or that it's in the kids best interest, but provided they do comply with reporting laws, this could be the closest we'll ever come to getting an accurate, documentable picture of the reality inside the bubble. All programs should be licensed and be required to report accidents, injuries, assaults, sexual misconduct, and deaths etcetc. The entire industry has been self-regulating for far too long. They have not demonstrated that they are capable of acting ethically or are mature enough to handle that level of responsibility. I wouldn't leave my dog in their care, if I had one.
I am sure no one feels bad for a corporation that needs to spend the extra money but if you feel it isn?t doing any good or adding value to the children why would you embrace it?
Are you brain dead? That 'value added' line is getting old. It's not as if they have a choice in the matter. They have been operating in VIOLATION OF THE LAW for 12 years. Whether or not to EMBRACE it is not the issue. It astounds me that kids are still there with this knowledge available to the public. It further astounds me that EdCons are lined up to start shipping kids there again as soon as they get a green light. It's damned ironic that a program that professes to set wayward kids straight is a "regular law breaker". Yes, make light of the truth Who. That's what you guys do so well. Double standards. That's one reason these programs aren't effective. Poor modeling, in a nutshell.
In many people minds the added red tape may actually decrease the effectiveness of the services provided, raise the cost of tuition and add no benefit to the bottom line which is the children.
Do you personally know 'minds' in the TT industry that feel this way? How exactly will following regs and treating the kids humanely, decrease the 'effectiveness' of the services provided. For that matter, 'effectiveness' has never been proven in the industry, hence the need for better record keeping and reporting.
I am not saying licensing is bad, if a school is below standards then being licensed would add value, but many feel it drags down many schools who are servicing the children well.
First off, if you want to speak honestly, why don't you stop referring to 'programs' as 'schools'. That's precisely the fraud programs have perpetrated for decades to avoid state oversight. There's only ONE reason they even have academics. Any facility that warehouses kids 24/7 must ensure those kids receive an education. They certainly don't want the kids attending the public schools in their districts- must keep them contained in the bubble to protect the illusion. Therefore they must provide some semblance of education.
And who are the many? Can you name a licensed program that feels that being licensed 'drags them down'? Or are you talking out your backside again? Whatever sounds good and might persuade a potential program parent to overlook the fact that HLA (and others) wantonly OPERATE IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW. There's no ethical way to justify it, Who.
But once you are submitting to the license requirements why not use this as a marketing tool to show you are commiting to a higher standard to grab a larger share of the market and recoup some you loses or burdens by being licensed? Display it proudly on your web site!!
Proudly? You're advocating MORE DECEPTION. They should be required to shamefully divulge in their literature that they violated the law for 12 years, deceived the state twice to avoid regulation and after two (or was it three) investigations, were forced, kicking and screaming, to apply for licensure. THAT'S THE TRUTH. That should ADD SOME VALUE.
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Deborah - Thank you for stating what so many of us know to be the real truth!!!! If one thing comes from this board, I hope it is to spare another parent and child from the pain & agony of these programs.
All along there's never been an apology or an ounce of remorse from HLA for all the lies and deceptions. Let's not forget all the kids out there for the past 12 years that received "faux" therapy from unlicensed and unskilled counselors. Lives have been destroyed - did you ever stop to think about that?
And, CA, please stop blaming everything on Len. Each and every one of you who was a part of the lies and deception are to blame. It probably makes you feel better and helps justify why you and others stayed there for so long, but all of your hands are just as dirty as his.
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records need to be kept a certain way?. And you responded??Would a parent really want to spend $6000 for ANY kind of 'treatment' in a facility that doesn't keep accurate records
No one was talking about the accuracy of the records. Lets say you had a system which collected very detailed information about each child?s medical history, while at the school, and the state requires you to record the information using their software or their methods which many of us know that state record keeping can be antiquated. You would have to abandon the system you have now for a less effective one. By the time the state gets around to reviewing and approving your system (if they even allow it) most places would just adopt the inferior system just to comply and move on.
Any facility that warehouses kids 24/7 must ensure those kids receive an education. They certainly don't want the kids attending the public schools in their districts- must keep them contained in the bubble to protect the illusion. Therefore they must provide some semblance of education.
This is precisely why many of these schools don?t seek licensing. I know I wouldn?t want to have the school put my kids into the local public school system?.these are the type of requirements that antiquated regulation can impose and drag a school back to the 19th century. Many of these students are preparing to enter some of the top schools in the country, state requirements don?t always target these kids needs.
You need to look at the larger picture, Deborah, regulation has value and protects the public from the most inferior school systems and programs (maybe HLA fell below the standards I don?t have knowledge of that detail), but for those who are trying to excel and provide kids with something different and better than local school systems inviting the state in to design your system is nuts.
If I was on welfare, sure I would want the state involved to provide my kids with an education, hot lunch, medications and a check each month. Its great for that and I am proud to pay into that each month. But many of these parents are looking for much more than that and the state doesn?t necessarily raise the bar or have a good track record when it comes to protecting kids.
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The school is already so far below standards they won't be losing anything, in fact it will all be an improvement, add that to the kids being in a much safer environment and they really have nothing to lose.
In a just society they would be punished and fined for "manipulating" the system for this long. Not allowed to reap any benefits from it.
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No one was talking about the accuracy of the records. Lets say you had a system which collected very detailed information about each child?s medical history, while at the school, and the state requires you to record the information using their software or their methods which many of us know that state record keeping can be antiquated. You would have to abandon the system you have now for a less effective one. By the time the state gets around to reviewing and approving your system (if they even allow it) most places would just adopt the inferior system just to comply and move on.
More irrelevant Blather. Now the state's going to come in can change the program's computer software. :rofl: Can you cite one instance in which this has been the case. And it has to be in THIS industry, not some irrevelant, "it sometimes happens in the auto industry" scenario? To my knowledge, a kids medical records only have to be contained in their file when the inspector arrives to conduct their review of the program. Programs self report incidences on forms they download from the state website.
Any facility that warehouses kids 24/7 must ensure those kids receive an education. They certainly don't want the kids attending the public schools in their districts- must keep them contained in the bubble to protect the illusion. Therefore they must provide some semblance of education.
This is precisely why many of these schools don?t seek licensing. I know I wouldn?t want to have the school put my kids into the local public school system?.these are the type of requirements that antiquated regulation can impose and drag a school back to the 19th century. Many of these students are preparing to enter some of the top schools in the country, state requirements don?t always target these kids needs.
Hey, nutjob. You're more full of shit than a Xmas turkey. The state NEVER requires programs to send kids to public schools, unless they aren't offering academics. They might also require it if the education being provided by the program does not meet BOE requirements. If you know something different, cite it. I'd be interested to read it.
I want you to look at the larger picture, Deborah, regulation has value and protects the public from the most inferior school systems and programs (maybe HLA fell below the standards I don?t have knowledge of that detail), but for those who are trying to excel and provide kids with something different and better than local school systems inviting the state in to design your system is nuts.
I already see a much bigger picture than you are capable of or will allow yourself to see. Programs need to be licensed. Period. "Trying to Excel" isn't good enough. The state doesn't come in and Re-design programs. They mandate some very basic guidelines that will assist (not insure) that kids are treated more humanely and ethically. They probably wouldn't even notice or care that the so-called 'therapy' at HLA and most other programs isn't evidence-based, so long as they had licensed professionals on staff.
If I was on welfare, sure I would want the state involved to provide my kids with an education, hot lunch, medications and a check each month. Its great for that and I am proud to pay into that each month. But many of these parents are looking for much more than that and the state doesn?t necessarily raise the bar or have a good track record when it comes to protecting kids.
Nor do programs. Did you hear about the latest death? At AEGs Lone Star Expeditions? Did you add that one to your statistics? These incidents need to be reported so the ineffective and dangerous nature of programs can finally be shown with hard stats. That won't happen until all programs are under the jurisdiction of their state licensing agency. Sure as hell can't depend on NATSAP or JCAHO or SACS or the EdCons to compile that data.
Yeh, parents want more, and boy are 'some' surprised when they find out they're paying "Harvard tuition" for an unlicensed program with no outside monitoring, 'experimental therapy', staff without proper credentials, and antiquated and abusive BM techniques- that would land a parent in jail if they did the same at home.
They kinda look like this. :o Then this. :flame:
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The state NEVER requires programs to send kids to public schools
I Never said they did, You brought it up I didn?t. I wouldn?t want the school to send my child off to the local public school all day, with the bullying, safety issues etc.
Nor do programs. Did you hear about the latest death? At AEGs Lone Star Expeditions? Did you add that one to your statistics?
Whenever people here are at a loss about how to respond they say ?Oh, kids are dying in these places! Didn?t you hear??? this as a scare tactic to parents???what you fail to mention is the kids are much safer in a TBS than anyplace else. Thousands of kids are dying needlessly every year because the local school system, families and/or local support systems are failing them. Schools (TBS?s) are set up to help these kids and provide a safe environment which they do and they are very effective ?? I think we would like to be able to save them all but we cant, there is no magic cure.
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The state NEVER requires programs to send kids to public schools
I Never said they did, You brought it up I didn?t. I wouldn?t want the school to send my child off to the local public school all day, with the bullying, safety issues etc.
What, do you think people can't remember what you posted earlier this morning:
This is precisely why many of these schools don?t seek licensing. I know I wouldn?t want to have the school put my kids into the local public school system?.these are the type of requirements that antiquated regulation can impose and drag a school back to the 19th century.
Perhaps someday, sooner than later, we'll have the hard data to show parents that their kids will be no safer in bubble programs that cost 6 grand a month.
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The state NEVER requires programs to send kids to public schools
I Never said they did, You brought it up I didn?t. I wouldn?t want the school to send my child off to the local public school all day, with the bullying, safety issues etc.
What, do you think people can't remember what you posted earlier this morning:
This is precisely why many of these schools don?t seek licensing. I know I wouldn?t want to have the school put my kids into the local public school system?.these are the type of requirements that antiquated regulation can impose and drag a school back to the 19th century.
Perhaps someday, sooner than later, we'll have the hard data to show parents that their kids will be no safer in bubble programs that cost 6 grand a month.
Response to this post can be found here:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252328#252328 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=252328#252328)
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