Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Antigen on March 08, 2007, 01:57:12 AM
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"[they] behave with stereotypical predictability. Like clones stamped out in some satanic laboratory, they share an underlying selfishness and similar ways of demonstrating it. "
and of whom?
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George orwell?
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Of whom?
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The Yorks, from their book 'Tough Love" (1982), ...discussing the wayward youth of today.
also quoted in Arnold S. Trebach's 'The Great Drug War', p65.
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Of whom?
opps sorry. the American people?
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Phyllis and David York. Forgot to include their first names. Toughlove ideology originators.
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Of whom?
us
the irony...
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it could be talking about any group think type of situation. religion, cult, politics, nationalism, fornits, etc
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it could be talking about any group think type of situation. religion, cult, politics, nationalism, fornits, etc
Could be.. but isn't. will you google the phrase
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no, i will not.
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Here's more fun facts about the Yorks and their nurturing parenting philosophy of "tough love" (yes, also the title of the book):
Its authors, 45-year-old Phyllis York and her 53-year-old husband, David, were counselors by profession. But their own children -- whom they described as "rotten" -- taught them that psychological counseling "only prolonged the problems by looking for the causes in the family's behavior." A child's rotten behavior was exclusively the child's fault, they wrote, and the most appropriate response was banishment. The Yorks' crowning achievement of "tough love," as they tell it, was refusing to post bail for their teenage daughter when she was arrested for drug possession just before Christmas. When their other daughter "threatened" to post bond, Phyllis screamed at her, "I'll kill you! You will not make her bail!" And when an intern at the rehab center came to ask them to visit their troubled daughter, Phyllis slammed the door in her face.
Some children, the Yorks explained, are simply too horrible to continue nuturing. Among the two pages of banishable offenses the Yorks list are "living in filthy bedroom and saying it is their room and they can do what they want, leaving dirty dishes around and claiming that they did not do it, fighting with their siblings and saying that their brothers and sisters started it, fighting with their parents and saying that Mom or Dad was nagging them..." as well as wrecking the family car, shoplifting, and getting stoned.
"The common denominator is rotten behavior," the Yorks wrote. "Despite a wide range of geographical, social, and economic backgrounds, our young people today behave with stereotypical predictability. Like clones stamped out in some satanic laboratory, they share an underlying selfishness and similar ways of demonstrating it."
The trick is to band together with other parents -- "your support people" -- who are doing the same thing to their bad children. And most of all, stay away from doctors and therapists. "We do not support the use of counselors who 'psychologize' the problem," the Yorks wrote, "but we encourage the patronage of counselors who will cooperate with our TOUGHLOVE strategies."
This book sounds like the programmies' bible.
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Damn, dead on, Urus. This book was the program Bible till Newton published Gone Way Down. I'm pretty sure SAFE and PFC still sell that one to new recruits.
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So what is there some significance to the phrase "attribution, please"?
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Sorry; maybe I'm not that up on the tough love shit..?
"attribution, please" ::read::
Hmm.. like someone's "chemical dependency" or some shit? My best guess...
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"[they] behave with stereotypical predictability. Like clones stamped out in some satanic laboratory, they share an underlying selfishness and similar ways of demonstrating it. "
Does any one else find it absurd that an individual post world war two baby boomer generation is calling someone else selfish? The individual that wrote this came from that generation and they are considered one of the most selfish generations in history.
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I suppose when you think about it, there is absolutely no surprise here, but feast your rotten little hearts on this passage from Arnold S. Trebach's 'The Great Drug War', pp 65-68 (2005, Unlimited Publishing LLC; 424 pp; ISBN 1588321185):
Nevertheless, armed with that satanic-clone vision of today's "troubled teens," the Yorks in their book discarded the well-established concept they had been taught in their training as professional drug-abuse counselors and family therapists: look for many of the roots in drug and alcohol abuse in family dysfunction. According to the Yorks, that makes no sense today because the selfish behavior of most of these kids comes from within themselves and from the fact that they are so often "stoned." Phyllis then told about the behavior of the kids she grew up with as a teenager in the early Fifties, when she "also felt the influence of the growing youth subculture. But drag racing, drinking, and balling in the backseat were considered the limits of outrageous teen behavior in that decade. Well, not exactly the limits, even for a nice Jewish girl in New York City, because, as Toughlove declares, without a hint of embarassment or regret, "When she was a teenager she smoked pot, tried cocaine, sniffed heroin, and occasionally drank."
However, Phyllis York claimed there was "a big difference" between her drug use and other shenanigans and "what is happening today." For example (writing in the third person about Phyllis), the Yorks said, "she liked the feelings she got when she used pot and cocaine and if she were a kid today she feels that she'd abuse these chemicals." The implication, of course, is that Ms. York somehow managed to use highly addictive illegal drugs ethically, occasionally, and responsibly! Why cannot young people sow their wild oats in that way today and then later become more responsible citizens, even going into the youth-control business as adults? Partly because they are more rotten than Phyllis and her friends were, but also because "at one time drugs were part of 'limit breaking' and the 'new consciousness', but as the years have passed they have simply become part of the culture."
In other words, when the Toughlove mother was a young girl, her profound deviance was much more understandable and less destructive because it was pioneering--and also because it involved greater effort in finding drugs. The kids today are selfish satanic clones because more of them are involved in the same activities and it is easier for them to obtain drugs. If the Yorks have demonstrated a significant difference here, I have failed to appreciate it. Nor did my undergraduate students whom I forced to read Toughlove. They were outraged to think that any adult would believe that it is part of the accepted culture for the majority of youth to fornicate in the backseats of cars, and also to use marijuana, cocaine, heroin, and alcohol. I can state categorically that any teenaged boy or girl who was involved in all of those activities today would be considered a deviant by most of the young people I know. That is why Phyllis York and her nice teenaged friends of the Fifties--held up almost as role models by the Toughlove gurus were "rotten" themselves in the eyes of many of my students. Moreover, having personally known the teenagers of both the Fifties and the Eighties, in each case from the vantage point of an adult, my anecdotal impression is that, on the whole, I can discern no qualitative difference in the rotteness quotient of these two generations.
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Seems to be a popular parenting philosophy, then and now:
"If you do half the shit I did (do), or are half as rotten as I was (am), I'm gonna kick your ass and disown you."
And thus, a huge evil industry thrives...
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El Niño, in this context, attribution means attribute the source, name the author.
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I am always amused by the obsession these ppl have with satan!!! i dont think there was ever a time as a youngster i misbehaved because my good friend the anti christ wanted me for a sunbeam!!!!! :rofl: :evil:
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or like my wonderful Ma likes to blather on about recently: "... bla bla bla... i saw on the news that your generation is the most narcissistic ever. bla bla bla, i heard it on the TV so it must be true.. bla bla bla"
I just have to roll my eyes at it sometimes... although the last time she mentioned it, i quipped that her generation was the most judgemental ever. ".. no it's true... the scientists reported it on the news... bla bla bla"...
Is this what I am supposed to look towards for guidance and common sense? I am so glad i doubt everything.
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Is this what I am supposed to look towards for guidance and common sense?
Try applying your steps, that might help.. :P
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I am always amused by the obsession these ppl have with satan!!! i dont think there was ever a time as a youngster i misbehaved because my good friend the anti christ wanted me for a sunbeam!!!!! :rofl: :evil:
Oh the god obsession is alive and healthy in the US. When religion and it's finicky details becomes the central focus of people's lives (and not the values it teaches)... this happens (http://http://www.godhatesfags.com).
That isn't even to mention that the bible says jack shit about drugs, apart from endorsing pot's use in the old testament (hebrews used pot in their incense)... and Moses talked to a burning bush... references to the tree of life, the leaves of which will bring peace to the world... Ya Mon! Great persecution (prohibition?)..
Think of the 7 heads, 7 kings which ther is sometimes a "has been" eighth (g7-g8) the scarlet whore who is a city set upon many waters (signifying a city of many nations peoples).... Washington DC: the scarlet whore of Babylon(Baghdad, Iraq), a beast with whom no nation dare make war (for who can challenge our might), center of commerce (scarlet) It even says the whore is a city... Whore of bablyon... anybody care to describe K street for me? And what are they whoring for? The writing on the head of the beast... anybody look at a map of washington DC (some really freaky geometry going on with the layout)... George bush being a freemason etc etc etc...
I'm not saying i believe any of that. I'm just saying, i'm surprised more Christians don't call the republicans Satan... considering the evidence at hand, and that the wolf comes in sheep's clothing... but then again, it does say in revelations that the truth is hidden from them so that prophecy will be fulfilled. But if my interpretation is correct, we'll all soon be smoking reefer after Bablyon burns to the ground. :smokin:
No i'm not crazy and yes i am joking... though i would be kinda cool (all the politicians thrown into a flaming BBQ pit)... and we can sit around with the worlds biggest "holy-bong" watching Lon, Sembler, and company roast on the open fire.
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Is this what I am supposed to look towards for guidance and common sense?
Try applying your steps, that might help.. :P
I accept that I am powerless over the stupidity of others.... and probably even god can't fix that one.
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"[they] behave with stereotypical predictability. Like clones stamped out in some satanic laboratory, they share an underlying selfishness and similar ways of demonstrating it. "
Does any one else find it absurd that an individual post world war two baby boomer generation is calling someone else selfish? The individual that wrote this came from that generation and they are considered one of the most selfish generations in history.
Oh, it gets worse than that. I think it was Helen Petterman, Seed/Straight intake mom for years and years, but could be some other actor in the same role. Asked whether she had ever smoked pot herself, she said yes but that was different, it was the 60, she was in college, they were exploring their consciousness while we were just getting stoned.
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Ya know, if a few more votes would go to "make an educatied guess" it would be a much more apropos graphic.
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God bless you, every one!
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I'm afraid I just had another mental outburst in my own mind...
one thought came in and stayed there.
To walk up to these people, these filthy sub-humans, and treat them how they treat their child. Overpower and terrify and hurt them, just like how they overpower and terrify and hurt those who are weaker than themselves... being tall has its advantages, doesn't it?
Too bad they have 'rights' whereas chattel property that comes out of the wifes vagina doesn't until they're old enough to pay taxes and die in Iraq, right? :roll:
I should make a "parent camp"... everyone on fornits is invited to be on staff :em:
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Here's more fun facts about the Yorks and their nurturing parenting philosophy of "tough love" (yes, also the title of the book):
Its authors, 45-year-old Phyllis York and her 53-year-old husband, David, were counselors by profession. But their own children -- whom they described as "rotten" -- taught them that psychological counseling "only prolonged the problems by looking for the causes in the family's behavior." A child's rotten behavior was exclusively the child's fault, they wrote, and the most appropriate response was banishment. The Yorks' crowning achievement of "tough love," as they tell it, was refusing to post bail for their teenage daughter when she was arrested for drug possession just before Christmas. When their other daughter "threatened" to post bond, Phyllis screamed at her, "I'll kill you! You will not make her bail!" And when an intern at the rehab center came to ask them to visit their troubled daughter, Phyllis slammed the door in her face.
Some children, the Yorks explained, are simply too horrible to continue nuturing. Among the two pages of banishable offenses the Yorks list are "living in filthy bedroom and saying it is their room and they can do what they want, leaving dirty dishes around and claiming that they did not do it, fighting with their siblings and saying that their brothers and sisters started it, fighting with their parents and saying that Mom or Dad was nagging them..." as well as wrecking the family car, shoplifting, and getting stoned.
"The common denominator is rotten behavior," the Yorks wrote. "Despite a wide range of geographical, social, and economic backgrounds, our young people today behave with stereotypical predictability. Like clones stamped out in some satanic laboratory, they share an underlying selfishness and similar ways of demonstrating it."
The trick is to band together with other parents -- "your support people" -- who are doing the same thing to their bad children. And most of all, stay away from doctors and therapists. "We do not support the use of counselors who 'psychologize' the problem," the Yorks wrote, "but we encourage the patronage of counselors who will cooperate with our TOUGHLOVE strategies."
This book sounds like the programmies' bible.
essentially, these are well educated child abusers. They use their education to justify child abuse as the medical establishment of Germany justified the abuse of the Jews through their own medical knowledge. Calling your children rotten so openly- and additionally in print no less- "refusing on principle" to nurture them is just plain evil Not to mention narcisistic to an outrageus degree. The idea that they have been bad parents, and need to modify their behavior in any way is so threatening to their sense of self that they foward the absurd notion that their kids were just born rotten. Becasue of their genes? no-no their genes! Just some wild inviisible factory!
The danger of programs isnt that there are no qualified people in them (thouugh there are none) becasue evil can be justified by "qualified" people as well as the drop outs that work at ASR. That is why we cant tolerate torturing children wether they "deserve it" or not. Torture of children is evil despite what catchy "tough love" or "behavior modification" phrase you attatch to it.
Ill give one thing to Hitler. He lacked the perversity to ever say his persecution of the Jews was for their own good.He never demanded the Jews love him for what he did to them. He allowed them to keep their souls
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Ill give one thing to Hitler. He lacked the perversity to ever say his persecution of the Jews was for their own good.He never demanded the Jews love him for what he did to them. He allowed them to keep their souls
Perhaps that is because Hitler was half-Jewish.
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One thing i will give to these nutso tough love merchants is that they admit to their own drug taking as kids. Go figure. Every kid i grew up with had baby boomer parents who lied through their teeth about this.
one myth that my parents tried to raise me with was that the giant and quite elaborate bong i once found in the attic (behind the simon and garfunkel records, a stack of "gentlemans magazines" from 1975 and a copy of the joy of sex) had only ever been used to smoke tobacco. There was also the occasional outrageous story about someone taking a bad trip and ending up in an asylum after walking along around the CBD only wearing a rasta hat and trying to beat up their own shadow. When as an adult i asked how I was expected to beleive such ridiculous tales i was advised that it was a given that if they tired it we would but seemed better than outright condoning drug taking. Who can fathom the logic of a parent filled with moral panic?
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Crazy people like to smoke weed too, doesn't mean the weed is what made them crazy. That's like saying water makes people child molesters, because I knew a child molester who drank lots of water.
If you are posting here, chances are your parents are fucking retarded and you are smarter and more mature than they are.
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One thing i will give to these nutso tough love merchants is that they admit to their own drug taking as kids. Go figure. Every kid i grew up with had baby boomer parents who lied through their teeth about this.
one myth that my parents tried to raise me with was that the giant and quite elaborate bong i once found in the attic (behind the simon and garfunkel records, a stack of "gentlemans magazines" from 1975 and a copy of the joy of sex) had only ever been used to smoke tobacco. There was also the occasional outrageous story about someone taking a bad trip and ending up in an asylum after walking along around the CBD only wearing a rasta hat and trying to beat up their own shadow. When as an adult i asked how I was expected to beleive such ridiculous tales i was advised that it was a given that if they tired it we would but seemed better than outright condoning drug taking. Who can fathom the logic of a parent filled with moral panic?
In the US, it's a little more sinister than that. Even if you want to raise your kids to have a sane and common sense approach to drug use, especially when it comes to pot, should your kid accidentally tell any of this to their friends, as kids are wont to do... and it gets back to a perhaps overly conservative other parent in your kids class, said latter parent can call the authorities and next thing you know Social Services comes and investigates and they may even take your kid away. Don't laugh, it almost happened to a friend of mine. This was a parent filled with a different kind of panic.
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http://www.startribune.com/587/story/1042243.html (http://www.startribune.com/587/story/1042243.html)
Last update: March 08, 2007 ? 11:47 PM
Student questioned about dad's use of pot
The controversy surrounding a bill to allow the use of medical marijuana hits home for a junior-high student in Brooklyn Park.
By Mark Brunswick, Star Tribune
Shannon Pakonen told a House committee Thursday that his 15-year-old son, Sam, was interrogated this week by a teacher at Brooklyn Junior High School in Brooklyn Park about his father's use of marijuana for medical purposes.
The incident, Pakonen said, demonstrates the need for legislation to authorize medical use of the drug.
Lisa Hunter Jensen, the Osseo School District's director of school/community relations, said the district had only sketchy information about the incident from the school's principal but said the district is investigating the matter further.
Telephone calls and e-mails to the school's principal and assistant principal as well as the Osseo School District's superintendent and school board members were not returned Thursday.
Sam Pakonen was pulled out of math class and told to report to his speech teacher, his father said. While there, the teacher asked him about his father. Were there marijuana plants in his house? Did he ever see his father smoke pot?
No, he replied.
That was on Tuesday. Two days earlier, Sam's father, Shannon, had been quoted in a Star Tribune story about a bill in the Legislature to allow the use of medical marijuana in the state. He was quoted saying he occasionally used marijuana to reduce tics and spasms caused by Tourette's syndrome, a neurological disorder. Shannon Pakonen had also testified in support of the bill last month in a Senate committee hearing.
On Thursday, Shannon Pakonen relayed Sam's story to members of the House Health and Human Services Committee, which took testimony on the medical marijuana bill and could vote on the measure as early as today.
"My son should not have to be treated like a criminal on the basis that he is my son," Pakonen told the committee.
Sam Pakonen was in the audience. After the hearing he retold the story. He said he was told to report to the speech teacher because his physical education teacher reported having difficulty understanding him. He was born prematurely and has several developmental disabilities. While he said he sometimes has difficulty with his speech, the physical education teacher had never made that claim in seven months of having him in his class.
The speech teacher asked the questions about the marijuana.
Measure stirs controversy
Shannon Pakonen, who said he obtains the marijuana from friends and does not smoke it in front of his son, said the actions at the school help illustrate the problems associated with the medical use of marijuana today.
A proposal that would have Minnesota join eight other states in approving such use has bipartisan support in the House and Senate but Gov. Tim Pawlenty opposes the measure, fearing that it sends the wrong message about the dangers of the drug.
Other opponents, such as the Minnesota Family Council and the Minnesota County Attorneys Association, have testified that marijuana could end up in the wrong hands.
Pakonen said he called an assistant principal at the school to complain on Wednesday and was told the physical education teacher was curious because she suffered from chronic pain. He was told that Sam had brought up the issue of medical marijuana. The boy said that never happened.
"I think they were trying to make the case to take my son away from me," Shannon Pakonen said after the hearing. "They want to victimize someone. I was going to be punished for exercising my right to speak out."
While unfamiliar with the specifics of the case, Barry Feld, a professor at the University of Minnesota law school specializing in juvenile justice, said police, teachers or other people in authority have a right to ask about allegations of impropriety, particularly if it involves potential child abuse or neglect.
"They would certainly be in a position to ask the kid about what goes on in the house," Feld said.
But Feld said there are statutes protecting family communications from being used against someone.
"It's to encourage kids to talk to their parents about problems," he said.
One of the measure's supporters is Rep. Steve Sviggum, R-Kenyon, a former House speaker who once opposed the use of medical marijuana but has since signed on as a co-author.
"This is an example of why we need to pass this kind of bill," Sviggum said after being told about the school incident.
Mark Brunswick - 651-222-1636 - mbrunswick@startribune.com
©2007 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.
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Moving to that state soon! *twitch... twitch*
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This state is generally considered to be one of the more progressive. Note that it is one of the few where medical majiuana is even being considered. The StarTribune is located in Minneapolis/St. Paul, a real pinko hotbed by MidWest standards. This story wouldn't even have made the news in some other places. The kid would have already been taken away.
I didn't see mention of the mother in the story; I think this may be a single parent. My friend is a single parent too. DSS really likes to target them. Less resistance, easier to get away with inappropriate machinations.
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I don't know if it is true or not but there is an urban legend going around, or it went around, which says that DSS workers have a quota of people they need to bust to keep the boss happy.
Wouldn't surprise me if it was true.
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Well, that's the thing about progressives. They seem to think that the government is better equipped to raise our kids than we are.
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In the US, it's a little more sinister than that. Even if you want to raise your kids to have a sane and common sense approach to drug use, especially when it comes to pot, should your kid accidentally tell any of this to their friends, as kids are wont to do... and it gets back to a perhaps overly conservative other parent in your kids class, said latter parent can call the authorities and next thing you know Social Services comes and investigates and they may even take your kid away. Don't laugh, it almost happened to a friend of mine. This was a parent filled with a different kind of panic.
Over here i suppose you could call social services too. But i have never heard of anyone who would do it unless they knew for a fact that the kid was being beaten to death or molested. Arent people who do that sort of thing considered hideous social pariahs because nobody likes a dobber? This is not really even a conservative liberal divide here. Those who are horrified by the idea of other parents liberalism may just ban their kid from hanging at the other kids house.
Even if someone called social services and reported a family down the road who smoked dope it is likely that the social worker would fall about laughing and hang up the phone. Is there a serious likelyhood the social worker would actually come in the us?
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You bet. Property managers often use this ploy to try to get rid of tenants they don't like/are afraid of for legal reasons (lead paint, mold spores).