Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 05, 2007, 09:37:33 PM
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Well? Discuss.
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Not so sure I believe in it. I used to hate, or very nearly so, program staff, supporters, vets who are too pussy to examine as old men the bullshit they fell for as young men, cops who play martyr and take no responsibility for their stinking corrupt cop culture (most of them, not all)
But then I got curious and so I learned to be a little diplomatic so I could communicate w/ some of them so I could find out a little about what makes them tick. I suspect that, if you allow a little sympathy for somebody you can't hate them for very long cause we're all made out of the same stuff.
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cause we're all made out of the same stuff.
I'm not sure I aggree with you on that.
Category 1: there are people who refuse, no matter what, to do what they believe is wrong.
Those people I admire.
Category 2: There are people who at one point knew that what they are doing is wrong, and convince themselves that it is necessary, or that they can change the system... Eventually, they rationalize wrong into right.
Those people i have compassion for.
Category 3: There are also people who know that what they do is wrong and continue to do it.
Those people.. i hate.
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I can believe that some, if not most members of staff fall into the second category... After all, most people starting a career in this industry probably do so wanting to help kids... I think many realize that what they are doing is not helping kids, and after attempts at reform fail, leave for other pursuits... Staff, at least at Benchmark, had an unbelievably high turnover rate, chiefly among the non-resident staff who did not live in the environment 24/7. They had an opportunity to go home, and live in the "real world"...
On the other hand there are the program directors, parent liaisons, some Educational Consultants etc... who know what they are doing is wrong, yet continue to do it because it makes them so much money... Those people, who day after day, systematically destroy people's lives... I have absolutely no compassion for whatsoever.
i mean... do you have compassion for Mel Sembler, or Miller Newton... I mean, if Jayne got hit by a truck tomorrow.. i would be ecstatic. ... maybe i'ts unhealthy, ... but some people... i hope they suffer in ways that do not even exist.
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Hating folks gets in the way of having a good time. Judging from the state of the board I've given up giving a shit about much that goes on here. To much Who Who Who and the ding a lings who insist on making an arguement with him. Looks to me like the man has pretty much staged his own fricking take over and controls the flow and tempo of several on going conversations. Anything useful is snowed under in a blizzard of back and forth nonsense between the who and the local moral authorities who have lost their own path.
Personally I've sat down and shot the shit and partaken in a few drinks with the following assorted rabble:
Drug dealers( they know how to party)
A rapist... very disconcerting occasion
A person who served over 20 years for murder
hookers
junkies
a real wild con man
Recently;
A pedophile... again very disconcerting experience.
A pimp who runs a stable of chicks he cons into coming to Korea from all over asia... very interesting experience.
Most of the people I should have found some reason to hate. Yet I can't be arsed. Hate to me is an invalid emotion. It doesn't compute with my sense of the world around me. I don't much hold grudges and I feel the same towards others.
Should have hated my parents for being abusive junkies who took a perverse pleasure in abusing me my brother and my sister. I can't really find it in me.
I should hate myself for some of the crap I've pulled. Yet I don't.
I guess in the end hate just comes across as to much fucking effort . Much easier to forgive and score some free drinks out of the deal.
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Hate takes a lot of work to keep it going:
I don?t think it can survive unless it is continuously fed. You would need a constant rage in your life to feed from, to go back to for replenishment. A constant reminder of what it is that keeps you focused. You would need to be conditioned to the point where if someone felt some compassion for you, this would transform automatically into an intense need to seek safety in the one thing no one can touch which is self hatred, because no one knows you better than yourself.
Imagine, for a moment, that you emerge from your safety net of hate and there are people everywhere ready to shake your very foundation, to tell you that you are a good person and that it is okay to feel compassion for another human being. You try to mix in with the crowd briefly and people you don?t know and can?t possibly relate to the depth of your pain and hatred just smile at you and wish you well on your journey. There are children playing in the park nearby and you hear sudden spouts of laughter as a young couple cross the street as they talk of their impending marriage. You start your car, the radio is on and the pleasantry of the music brings a distant sensation you haven?t felt in awhile, you sense it is strange and you feel yourself slipping away so you quickly turn it off as you speed up the street. Your instincts tell you to accelerate as a dog crosses the street but your foot slips off the peddle as you narrowly miss him. You make your final left turn as you enter the market place in downtown Baghdad and hold the accelerator to the floor and lock your elbows as you hold the steering wheel with both hands. Your knuckles are white from your grasp, you find it difficult to stare at the people coming up quickly in front of you, is it a weakness to turn away and not look? Is it a sign of compassion? Do y0u need to continuously feed this intense revulsion you have? Why cant it be constant, everlasting and void of pity? You refuse to look away but instead change focus to the icon hanging from your mirror which has always been solitude from your constant hatred but also serves to feed it and today is no exception, you hear distant screams of distress and fear, babies crying???your body goes numb???you slowly but methodically squeeze the button in your hand and you see a white flash and your hatred is transformed into an energy that will effect many lives, it never dies, you have provided food for many others to continue their unconditional antipathy and distaste for anything good and a deep well for replenishment for others??.
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I'm going to go ahead and flaunt my own credentials here. I am a merchant of hate, an international distributor. I acquire it and distribute it. I am inspired to burning hate in situations where few other people would be, and I can jump in it like Scrooge McDuck does with money. However, hate cannot be bought or sold (although acts of hate can be paid for), only given freely. However it can be molded, shaped, given form. My supply has gone from "unimaginable" to "practically limitless". The only reason you don't see more of it is that while my hate is unlimited, my time is not.
To prevent certain things from happening, I have several restrictions on my own hate, the relevant one here being that under no circumstances can I direct it at children.
Coming here was a bonanza. Fornits is an oil field, a gold mine, the land of milk and honey for hate. The hate around here is palpable and juicy, with a rich taste, bitter yet tangy. It's hard to process, which is why lesser hate lords don't come here. Hating, say, Jack Thompson or George Bush is easy. Hating Randall Hinton requires a lot more research into things you don't want to know about.
What I still don't get is why this is generally so ill-understood. I mean Jesus Christ, people, you sent your kids to torture pits and then proceeded to tell them they just had a "bad experience", what the hell else were you expecting to happen? Of course they're going to hate you! And they probably don't hate you nearly as much as they should, because their brains aren't capable of it!
How much do you think I know about hate? I'll tell you all what hate really is.
Hate is spite. Hate is revenge. Hate is always unconditional, as there are no qualifications to hate somebody. You just have to hate him.
Hate is destruction's principal vehicle. It is possible for someone to destroy with no hatred, but usually that someone is already really dangerous. Therefore hate is the only way to put down the shit in this world.
Hate is when someone pulls a mean prank on you, you pretend to forgive him, you go over to his house for a few beers and pour potassium cyanide in his drink. Wife rape optional.
Hate is when your father asks you for computer help, and you remember that one time he started spanking you in front of your friends when you were ten years old, so you go over and stock it full of child porn with backdated filenames to make it look like he's been hoarding it for years, and then call the FBI.
Hate is when you lose your temp-agency job, so you discover the address to email everyone at the host company, and use it to let them know they're all going to lose their jobs (This works best when there's a nugget of truth to it).
Hate is when you rip a man out of the closet and expose him for all to see as the perverted fuckhead he is, for no other reason than his existence disturbs you.
Hate is when you intentionally get AIDS just because you want to spread it to as many people as you can before you kill yourself.
Hate is when someone tries to teach you a lesson, and you intentionally learn the opposite.
Hate is when you look someone in the eyes and smile as you squeeze the trigger to add a third hole between them.
Hate is when you constantly repost Miller Newton's phone number in hopes that people will call him and tell him what they think.
Hate is when a teacher makes fun of you in school, and you end up going into politics thirty years later and, when given the opportunity, viciously, intentionally slash the education budget.
Hate is when your parents send you to SCL, you wait until you've graduated college, and then you retaliate by breaking off all contact and never even letting them see their grandchildren.
Hate is when your daughter skips school a few times and you retaliate by paying thousands of dollars to send her to be "behavior modified".
Hate is when you open up a shitpit to torture children in simply because the idea of children growing up- the process of adolescence- inspires your hate.
There's an old saying: "You can fool the fans, but you can't fool the players", and I'm the fucking grandmaster of this game. I roll my eyes every time the word "therapy" is said on this board, or people start talking about "treatment", or whatever. It's bullshit- it's all bullshit. You don't lock someone up in a little cell called "The Hobbit" unless you hate him. You don't wrap a teenage girl in a straitjacket called a "burrito" unless you hate her, nor do you force her, under threat of hours-long painful restraint, to divulge everything about her sex life. It doesn't matter how long you went to school, or what for, or what your new educational theory is, or anything else. This isn't treatment. This is hate.
The bullshit also comes from our side, as well. Regulatory agencies are a weapon, nothing more. George Miller's House bill is simply a method of removing shit that has no place on this planet. Let's not pretend otherwise.
The really nasty thing about programmies is that the vast majority of them seriously do not know that what they feel is hate. Some of them even think it's love. This leads to the condition known as "sick fuckery", in which horrors are visited upon children "for their own good", which is what feels good to the sadist in question.
But it's still hate.
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Hate smacks of effort. I'm too lazy to hold a grudge for very long.
My therapist asked me once, "Why aren't you bitter?" and I said "I couldn't be bothered."
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Hate smacks of effort. I'm too lazy to hold a grudge for very long.
My therapist asked me once, "Why aren't you bitter?" and I said "I couldn't be bothered."
:nworthy:
You summded up how i think. Milk have a nice cold beer, or smoke something herbal take a deep breath and remeber that bitterness only hurts you.
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friggin slow server dupe post
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Hate takes a lot of work to keep it going:
I don?t think it can survive unless it is continuously fed. You would need a constant rage in your life to feed from, to go back to for replenishment. A constant reminder of what it is that keeps you focused. You would need to be conditioned to the point where if someone felt some compassion for you, this would transform automatically into an intense need to seek safety in the one thing no one can touch which is self hatred, because no one knows you better than yourself.
Imagine, for a moment, that you emerge from your safety net of hate and there are people everywhere ready to shake your very foundation, to tell you that you are a good person and that it is okay to feel compassion for another human being.
I really can't believe you are trying to describe that as one of our effects in Iraq. Hint: They ain't blowing themselves up because they feel like we're threatening their emotional safety net... Telling them to have compassion is not exactly what is pissing them off...
But in case you've not noticed, they're currently more interested in getting back to the centuries old Shiite vs Sunni massacre-fest...
You try to mix in with the crowd briefly and people you don?t know and can?t possibly relate to the depth of your pain and hatred just smile at you and wish you well on your journey. There are children playing in the park nearby and you hear sudden spouts of laughter as a young couple cross the street as they talk of their impending marriage. You start your car, the radio is on and the pleasantry of the music brings a distant sensation you haven?t felt in awhile,
Jesus fuck. Have you actually been to baghdad. Sudden spurts of laughter are few and far between...
you sense it is strange and you feel yourself slipping away so you quickly turn it off as you speed up the street. Your instincts tell you to accelerate as a dog crosses the street but your foot slips off the peddle as you narrowly miss him.
Dogs are few, and far between in the middle east (regarded as very very unclean). If this guy was going to blow himself up, trust me.. he wouldn't give a damn about the dog.
You make your final left turn as you enter the market place in downtown Baghdad and hold the accelerator to the floor and lock your elbows as you hold the steering wheel with both hands. Your knuckles are white from your grasp, you find it difficult to stare at the people coming up quickly in front of you, is it a weakness to turn away and not look? Is it a sign of compassion? Do y0u need to continuously feed this intense revulsion you have? Why cant it be constant, everlasting and void of pity? You refuse to look away but instead change focus to the icon hanging from your mirror which has always been solitude from your constant hatred but also serves to feed it and today is no exception, you hear distant screams of distress and fear, babies crying???your body goes numb???you slowly but methodically squeeze the button in your hand and you see a white flash and your hatred is transformed into an energy that will effect many lives, it never dies, you have provided food for many others to continue their unconditional antipathy and distaste for anything good and a deep well for replenishment for others??.
Well shit. You almost made a point there... The thing you don't realize is this: They believe they are doing the right thing, that they are holy, that they will be martyred. They would, therefore, fall into my second category... Their leaders, on the other hand... a great many of them view their followers as pawns... potential weapons... The west, and America in particular, is a convenient scapegoat to portray as "Satan". On the other hand, we don't exactly do a good job of trying to show we have their best interests in mind... They don't hate our freedom, they could care less what we do over here. There are many countries that are far more socially liberal and they seem to have avoided planes hitting buildings... what they hate, is our self-serving interference in the region (eg: propping up Saudi government), our one-sided stance in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (in my opinion, both sides are equally at fault), and our hypocritical demands for westernization (which they view as an intrusion into their culture, and it's morality (which we, incidentally find repugnant)). They value different things that we do... Revenge is a part of the culture, expected.. It's considered justice... vengeance.. Good luck preaching your values to that crowd from your high and mighty ivory tower. While you're at it, explain to them how pushing a button, launching a cruise missile, and blowing up an apartment block, exemplifies the height of western civilization and morality. Ask yourself... How many in this country, if the logistical situation were reversed, and we had none of our modern weaponry, would be willing to sacrifice themselves the way they do... Gives "dying for your country" a whole new meaning doesn't it?
You may say "they're still killing innocent people".. well. In their culture, the believe the righteous will instantly go to heaven... so it's no biggie. And our hands aren't exactly spotless either.
Occasionally you come close to making a decent point, and then i realize how you're completely leaving out another side to the argument. In my opinion, you lack the ability to put yourself in other people's shoes.
All we're doing now in Iraq is propping up a corpse. The Bush adspinistration has it's hand up the ass making it talk. All they Republicans have to do is make it look alive enough to be able to pass the blame over to the democrats... ("Oh MY GOD IT'S DEAD?!?!? The humanity!?!?!? See! It's your fault for not supporting the troops... YOU HATE FREEDOM! You terrist lovers you!...) That isn't to say the Democrats are any better when the situation is reversed... What surprises me, is that, from your rosy depiction of Baghdad, you seem to believe the talking corpse. Me? I doubt everything, do my own research, read all sides(as many as possible, not just both sides) , and ignore the commentators and "expert analysys". Why? Because when they get IT "experts" on the news, i know they're full of shit. It's entertainment[/u]. And I know more than enough about foreign policy, history, and the world to make my own decisions.
As far as hate goes? Hate is just an emotion, there is nothing wrong with it... but you must understand why the hate exists, and not let it control you.
Hate does not drive me, or my work against Benchmark. There was a time when i must admit, i was filled with rage at Benchmark... However it provided a fuel for my work, rather than a motivation.. and such fuel burns out quickly as you imply. When i think about certain things.. yeah i still get angry, but I also acknowledge the pain that causes it, and that knowledge is what keeps me working... Nobody should have to go through the same thing, and I want it to end. I was given a chance to succeed because my parents showed me compassion, and rejected the "dump him" advice from program. I was given a chance very very few others i knew ever had. I feel like i need to "pass it on"... Because without that chance, I would be struggling to survive rather than speaking out here... and I wonder how long it would take for somebody else to speak out.
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Hate smacks of effort. I'm too lazy to hold a grudge for very long.
My therapist asked me once, "Why aren't you bitter?" and I said "I couldn't be bothered."
:nworthy:
You summded up how i think. Milk have a nice cold beer, or smoke something herbal take a deep breath and remeber that bitterness only hurts you.
Words to live by. You gotta chill sometime or your gonna burn out.
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I'm going to go ahead and flaunt my own credentials here. I am a merchant of hate, an international distributor. I acquire it and distribute it. I am inspired to burning hate in situations where few other people would be, and I can jump in it like Scrooge McDuck does with money. However, hate cannot be bought or sold (although acts of hate can be paid for), only given freely. However it can be molded, shaped, given form. My supply has gone from "unimaginable" to "practically limitless". The only reason you don't see more of it is that while my hate is unlimited, my time is not.
To prevent certain things from happening, I have several restrictions on my own hate, the relevant one here being that under no circumstances can I direct it at children.
Coming here was a bonanza. Fornits is an oil field, a gold mine, the land of milk and honey for hate. The hate around here is palpable and juicy, with a rich taste, bitter yet tangy. It's hard to process, which is why lesser hate lords don't come here. Hating, say, Jack Thompson or George Bush is easy. Hating Randall Hinton requires a lot more research into things you don't want to know about.
What I still don't get is why this is generally so ill-understood. I mean Jesus Christ, people, you sent your kids to torture pits and then proceeded to tell them they just had a "bad experience", what the hell else were you expecting to happen? Of course they're going to hate you! And they probably don't hate you nearly as much as they should, because their brains aren't capable of it!
How much do you think I know about hate? I'll tell you all what hate really is.
Hate is spite. Hate is revenge. Hate is always unconditional, as there are no qualifications to hate somebody. You just have to hate him.
Hate is destruction's principal vehicle. It is possible for someone to destroy with no hatred, but usually that someone is already really dangerous. Therefore hate is the only way to put down the shit in this world.
Hate is when someone pulls a mean prank on you, you pretend to forgive him, you go over to his house for a few beers and pour potassium cyanide in his drink. Wife rape optional.
Hate is when your father asks you for computer help, and you remember that one time he started spanking you in front of your friends when you were ten years old, so you go over and stock it full of child porn with backdated filenames to make it look like he's been hoarding it for years, and then call the FBI.
Hate is when you lose your temp-agency job, so you discover the address to email everyone at the host company, and use it to let them know they're all going to lose their jobs (This works best when there's a nugget of truth to it).
Hate is when you rip a man out of the closet and expose him for all to see as the perverted fuckhead he is, for no other reason than his existence disturbs you.
Hate is when you intentionally get AIDS just because you want to spread it to as many people as you can before you kill yourself.
Hate is when someone tries to teach you a lesson, and you intentionally learn the opposite.
Hate is when you look someone in the eyes and smile as you squeeze the trigger to add a third hole between them.
Hate is when you constantly repost Miller Newton's phone number in hopes that people will call him and tell him what they think.
Hate is when a teacher makes fun of you in school, and you end up going into politics thirty years later and, when given the opportunity, viciously, intentionally slash the education budget.
Hate is when your parents send you to SCL, you wait until you've graduated college, and then you retaliate by breaking off all contact and never even letting them see their grandchildren.
Hate is when your daughter skips school a few times and you retaliate by paying thousands of dollars to send her to be "behavior modified".
Hate is when you open up a shitpit to torture children in simply because the idea of children growing up- the process of adolescence- inspires your hate.
There's an old saying: "You can fool the fans, but you can't fool the players", and I'm the fucking grandmaster of this game. I roll my eyes every time the word "therapy" is said on this board, or people start talking about "treatment", or whatever. It's bullshit- it's all bullshit. You don't lock someone up in a little cell called "The Hobbit" unless you hate him. You don't wrap a teenage girl in a straitjacket called a "burrito" unless you hate her, nor do you force her, under threat of hours-long painful restraint, to divulge everything about her sex life. It doesn't matter how long you went to school, or what for, or what your new educational theory is, or anything else. This isn't treatment. This is hate.
The bullshit also comes from our side, as well. Regulatory agencies are a weapon, nothing more. George Miller's House bill is simply a method of removing shit that has no place on this planet. Let's not pretend otherwise.
The really nasty thing about programmies is that the vast majority of them seriously do not know that what they feel is hate. Some of them even think it's love. This leads to the condition known as "sick fuckery", in which horrors are visited upon children "for their own good", which is what feels good to the sadist in question.
But it's still hate.
This is fucking amazing. It's a Manifesto of Hate. :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
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Well shit. You almost made a point there... The thing you don't realize is this: They believe they are doing the right thing, that they are holy, that they will be martyred.]/quote]
Doesn't Bush profess to be doing "god's will"? How bout the Crusaders?
They would, therefore, fall into my second category... Their leaders, on the other hand... a great many of them view their followers as pawns... potential weapons... The west, and America in particular, is a convenient scapegoat to portray as "Satan".
In fact the same is true and could be said of Bush and his puppeteers?
On the other hand, we don't exactly do a good job of trying to show we have their best interests in mind... They don't hate our freedom, they could care less what we do over here. There are many countries that are far more socially liberal and they seem to have avoided planes hitting buildings...
Hmm, last I checked it hasn't been proven who flew planes into the WTC buildings. We do know who "took down" building 7 and all evidence is pointing to the US (Bush/cronnies) having a hand in it. Reichstag Fire? Pearl Harbor?
what they hate, is our self-serving interference in the region (eg: propping up Saudi government), our one-sided stance in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (in my opinion, both sides are equally at fault), and our hypocritical demands for westernization (which they view as an intrusion into their culture, and it's morality (which we, incidentally find repugnant)).
I tend to think they're tired of centuries of blatant racism. The raping and pillaging of their natural resources. The US and their allies instigating discontent, covertly and overtly. Then appearing to intervene in the name of democracy/peace making. Funding terrorists groups until they no longer serve their purposes, then making them the scapegoat.
They value different things that we do... Revenge is a part of the culture, expected.. It's considered justice... vengeance..
Just curious how that may be different with the US which has been known to create catastrophes to justify 'revengful' acts.
As far as hate goes? Hate is just an emotion, there is nothing wrong with it... but you must understand why the hate exists, and not let it control you.
Isn't hate the absence of love.... respect? Intense disrespect? I consider it an indirect way of saying what one's really feeling... I'm angry at you for... I feel rage because.... becomes I hate you. Especially when you don't think you'll be heard, respected, or appreciated by the other party.
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You can only feel hatred for something or someone you feel very passionately about. That makes hate closer to love than to any other emotion.
Hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is the opposite of love.
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Another thought:
As a child saying ?I hate you mommy!? It most probably is an emotional way of expressing some other feeling the child is having. Maybe the child is feeling angry or frustrated and this is the way it comes out (as Deborah also pointed out). I believe these responses need to be given broad latitude and not met with resistance or a need to change the child?s view. It is important to try to understand the underlying problem and work towards resolving that issue.
But as one becomes an adult the use of the emotion ?Hatred? should not be treated as unimportant. It is very powerful and dangerous and if left unchecked it will manifest itself into a need for vengeance and a false belief that this will somehow bring them healing. The intense feelings need to be more than managed.( as some schools of thought believe), although sudden outbursts and screaming may bring relief, this is only temporary. The root cause of the hatred needs to be identified and somehow worked towards resolution so that the emotion is eliminated.
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You can only feel hatred for something or someone you feel very passionately about. That makes hate closer to love than to any other emotion.
Hate is not the opposite of love. Indifference is the opposite of love.
Yeh, I like that, a circle rather than a continuum. Easy to imagine that hate could be a positive thing, the potential catalyst for resolution, so you can get back to loving.
Hate/anger being the heighth of the bell curve. The climax of feeling separate, right before the fight, possible resolution, and back to loving.
The intensity of the hate/anger/disagreement directly related to the degree of how disrespected one or both people feel.
I can't agree that Indifference is the opposite of love, because it's actually the absence of the two extremes, love/hate.
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Hmm, last I checked it hasn't been proven who flew planes into the WTC buildings. We do know who "took down" building 7 and all evidence is pointing to the US (Bush/cronnies) having a hand in it. Reichstag Fire? Pearl Harbor?
Every time I hear someone bitching about me affecting Fornits' credibility, I remember all the shit like this and laugh.
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Well shit. You almost made a point there... The thing you don't realize is this: They believe they are doing the right thing, that they are holy, that they will be martyred.]/quote]
Doesn't Bush profess to be doing "god's will"? How bout the Crusaders?
They would, therefore, fall into my second category... Their leaders, on the other hand... a great many of them view their followers as pawns... potential weapons... The west, and America in particular, is a convenient scapegoat to portray as "Satan".
In fact the same is true and could be said of Bush and his puppeteers?
On the other hand, we don't exactly do a good job of trying to show we have their best interests in mind... They don't hate our freedom, they could care less what we do over here. There are many countries that are far more socially liberal and they seem to have avoided planes hitting buildings...
Hmm, last I checked it hasn't been proven who flew planes into the WTC buildings. We do know who "took down" building 7 and all evidence is pointing to the US (Bush/cronnies) having a hand in it. Reichstag Fire? Pearl Harbor?
I see the same damn pattern. It sounds like conspiracy theories but if you look at the evidence...
When I first saw the towers collapse... I was shocked. How does a building like that collapse in it's own convenient footprint... and how in the hell does a structurally untouched building (WTC 7) just ... fall down.. And what happened to the rubble afterwards. Shipped overseas and/or melted down.. the melting point of steel, the angled cut of the beams (shaped demolition charges)... the secondary explosions.. etc etc etc etc..
what they hate, is our self-serving interference in the region (eg: propping up Saudi government), our one-sided stance in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (in my opinion, both sides are equally at fault), and our hypocritical demands for westernization (which they view as an intrusion into their culture, and it's morality (which we, incidentally find repugnant)).
I tend to think they're tired of centuries of blatant racism. The raping and pillaging of their natural resources. The US and their allies instigating discontent, covertly and overtly. Then appearing to intervene in the name of democracy/peace making. Funding terrorists groups until they no longer serve their purposes, then making them the scapegoat.
Running out of enemies at the end of the cold war threatened a multi-trillion dollar industry (so we needed to train some brand new ones. the war on terror is the "next big thing"... This is the war that does not end... We have enemies for the next few centuries. Both sides gain stability by keeping the population focused on external affairs, ignoring the corruption within. Eurasia anybody?)... The defense budget is classified, and having unwittingly (had no friggin idea who i was working for until i put the pieces together) worked for one, i can tell you this: the government buys a lot of shit it does not need, and that the DOD and the private sector are a little too close for comfort. And nobody seems to suspect a thing when KBR (Halliburton) gets a no-bid contract for the reconstruction of Iraq, and absurdly overbills, and gets clean away with it (even praised).
They value different things that we do... Revenge is a part of the culture, expected.. It's considered justice... vengeance..
Just curious how that may be different with the US which has been known to create catastrophes to justify 'revengful' acts.
Transparency.
As far as hate goes? Hate is just an emotion, there is nothing wrong with it... but you must understand why the hate exists, and not let it control you.
Isn't hate the absence of love.... respect? Intense disrespect? I consider it an indirect way of saying what one's really feeling... I'm angry at you for... I feel rage because.... becomes I hate you. Especially when you don't think you'll be heard, respected, or appreciated by the other party.
Well shit. the one thing that I did pay attention at Benchmark was that anger did not exist.. Anger was a secondary emotion caused by pain or fear. If you feel angry, it must be for one of those two reasons. I have not been able to disprove it, and it sort of makes sense (and that was about the only thing).
hmm... interstingly.. googling "anger secondary emotion"
produces this link: eqi.org (http://http://eqi.org/anger.htm) sounds est-ish... what with the emotional intelligence(you're in your head)... A lot of the music they reference is from propheets / workshops (Lennon for example)
Jayne commented a few months ago in a phone interview that psychologists were too "in their heads"...
I asked her why she used sleep deprivation in the workshops... she said it was to help kids be a "little more real"
the shit spreads like a cancer. Shit. I'm constantly finding pieces of it i absorbed when I was at Benchmark... It's like pulling out pieces of glass... and there's nothing there to patch it up... and you wonder what was there before, and you can't remember.
the god damn rabbit hole just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
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OH THE HILARITY OF IT ALL:
http://http://stevehein.com/sphcv.htm
Age 10-21
Selliing state maps which I got for free at the corner gasoline station by our house for two cents each to our neighbors, till one called my mother.
Paperboy, lawn mowing, snow shoeveling, painting houses, re-selling candy, food, popcorn.
Over 21
My own software business, real estate management and investments, writing and self-publishing book, developing and teaching my own personal development and parenting classes, creating a top ranking website on emotional intelligence.
that is from his actual CV...
I couldn't make this shit up if i tried.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
And this is who he recommends do corporate evaluations: http://http://www.cjwolfe.com/
fucking incredible.. BUY NOW!!!!
This just about made me throw up my chinese
http://http://www.eqi.org/busi.htm#Note%20to%20HR%20Managers
would you read that quote:
Emotional Intelligence, Emotional Enlightenment, and Business
Business has become, in this last half-century,
the most powerful institution on the planet.
The dominant institution in any society
needs to take responsibility for the whole. "
?Futurist Willis Harman (1918-1997)
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i mean... do you have compassion for Mel Sembler, or Miller Newton... I mean, if Jayne got hit by a truck tomorrow.. i would be ecstatic. ... maybe i'ts unhealthy, ... but some people... i hope they suffer in ways that do not even exist.
Yeah, believe it or not I do have some compassion for them. I hate what they are and what they do but I wouldn't want to walk a mile in their shoes. Remember that Mel Sembler did this to his own son. And, according to some reports, he was spotted on the parents' side at open meeting when his own grandson was in Pathway Family Center just a couple of years ago. Same w/ Virgil. His son went through the program. That's how he got in in order to move up through the ranks of parent group. I feel sorry for the sons of bitches. Not so sorry that I don't laugh my ass off whenever Virgil loses another judgment and RTP gives it his own special satirical treatment.
I wouldn't feel badly for either one if they got hit by a bus. Actually, I'd have to laugh pretty hard if they came to a messy end caught in the crossfire of their own drug war. Say, a deal gone bad right there at Ybor City. But, living or dead, I feel badly for their families. They do and will ever have to live with the shame. I'm not kidding or being expansive when I say that these kids and grandkids and unto the next generations will have a curse on their heads like the poor bastards who descend from the likes of Goebbels and Hitler.
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I feel little pain (except maybe when reading ST or some of the more retarded shit around here) and I fear nothing, so I'm the absolute counterexample to that bullshit at Benchmark.
Psy.. everything you "learned" at Benchmark is bullshit. Take a week, a month, a year, whatever, to purge it entirely from your mind. I did similar with much of public school.
And Tower 7 fell due to a huge piece of shrapnel knocking the supports out from underneath a HUGE diesel generator that some idiot put on the roof.
What is the matter with this fucking conspiracy bullshit? Here's a conspiracy for you. Four planes' worth of towelheads came into this country and nobody stopped them from pulling it off, and who's to say, maybe the CIA helped. That makes a hell of a lot more sense than to make up bullshit about impossible demolition charges being placed everywhere.
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Psy, they taught us on Rational Self Therapy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_E ... or_Therapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Emotive_Behavior_Therapy)
Albert Ellis was actually scheduled as to speak about how Straight, Inc. had distorted his ideas and capitalized on his good name at the 2000 "Drug Treatment Abuse" conference in Bethesda. He canceled at the last minute due to medical problems.
Ot was kind of silly the way they did it. Once or twice a week a select few 4th and 5th phasers were taken to another room for a couple of hours of common sense book work on basic psychology, then back into bizarro world on the other side of the door. One thing I remember from the course was that anger is what you feel when something fails to meet your expectation. I was angry as hell for a long time, then I adjusted my expectations. I suppose I'm more angry now at my fellow citizens who refuse to see what kind of monsters we've left in charge and are, imo, too cowardly to do anything about it.
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I feel little pain (except maybe when reading ST or some of the more retarded shit around here) and I fear nothing, so I'm the absolute counterexample to that bullshit at Benchmark.
Psy.. everything you "learned" at Benchmark is bullshit. Take a week, a month, a year, whatever, to purge it entirely from your mind. I did similar with much of public school.
And Tower 7 fell due to a huge piece of shrapnel knocking the supports out from underneath a HUGE diesel generator that some idiot put on the roof.
What is the matter with this fucking conspiracy bullshit? Here's a conspiracy for you. Four planes' worth of towelheads came into this country and nobody stopped them from pulling it off, and who's to say, maybe the CIA helped. That makes a hell of a lot more sense than to make up bullshit about impossible demolition charges being placed everywhere.
Oh. That the conspiracy theorists argue that the CIA most definately did help... They knew when it was going to happen, and the target so they could coordinate a bigger bang (for more funding bucks).
It sounds impossible, but consider the bomb sniffing dogs were pulled off a week earlier.
Look. I'm not saying it happened... I'm saying the pattern fits. Like Deb said, pearl harbor, Reichstag. Programs sound like a huge conspiracy theory, and yet they exist. so I tend to say ... eeh. It's possible, and there is ample motive there.
It's not as simple as "the bad bad towelhead men want to kill us becuase they hate our freedoms etc." They had good reason to want to kill us. (humor me and study a little foreign policy) That does not justify what they did, but it explains it.
Yadda yadda. Towelhead faggot etc. You sound like Anne Coulter.
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Psy, they taught us on Rational Self Therapy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_E ... or_Therapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Emotive_Behavior_Therapy)
Albert Ellis was actually scheduled as to speak about how Straight, Inc. had distorted his ideas and capitalized on his good name at the 2000 "Drug Treatment Abuse" conference in Bethesda. He canceled at the last minute due to medical problems.
Ot was kind of silly the way they did it. Once or twice a week a select few 4th and 5th phasers were taken to another room for a couple of hours of common sense book work on basic psychology, then back into bizarro world on the other side of the door. One thing I remember from the course was that anger is what you feel when something fails to meet your expectation. I was angry as hell for a long time, then I adjusted my expectations. I suppose I'm more angry now at my fellow citizens who refuse to see what kind of monsters we've left in charge and are, imo, too cowardly to do anything about it.
JESUS FUCK! That's exactly what they called it too... BINGO!
god damn that's exactly it. That is exactly what they taught us.
"concept that emotional suffering results primarily, though not completely, from our evaluations of a negative event, not solely by the events per se. In other words, human beings on the basis of their belief system actively, though not always consciously, disturb themselves, and even disturb themselves about their disturbances"
yupppp... that's the poopie.
Oh where is the hug icon...
This adds a whole new dimension to the hurt i am planning for them... Oh deary me.. ::bigsmilebounce::
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On the other hand there are the program directors, parent liaisons, some Educational Consultants etc... who know what they are doing is wrong, yet continue to do it because it makes them so much money... Those people, who day after day, systematically destroy people's lives... I have absolutely no compassion for whatsoever.
I have to respond to this separately. I don't think there are very many people like this. Most of these people are just like the Muslims you describe; they truly and fully believe that what they're doing is good. Same for cops who kill innocents in SWAT raids looking for flowers, same for military snipers, bombers and various other kinds of sanctioned murderers. Same for my dad when he was a 16yo sailor far from home, believing he was protecting home and hearth from the heathen Japs.
I did, myself, take part in torturing other unfortunate strangers who found themselves in the same twilight zone as I did. At first, I didn't take part. Little by little, without any sort of reference or reenforcement, you forget what you think, you lose the habit of making your own judgments and what once was plain out wrong and cruel becomes normal. I have sympathy for the guards who beat Martin Anderson to death cause I know what it's like to torture a helpless kid, believing him to be acting defiant of his own volition and not even know till later that the poor kid had no volition.
See, it's only a matter of degrees. It happens that I had the impetus to haul ass at a time prior to graduating and going on staff. I had every intention of earning a scholarship to study marine biology at Woods Hole, Ma. in order to beg off of the staff assignment. But I know now that I never would have gotten that scholarship, having missed too much school and then been kept busy on staff. And, unless something else had happened to jolt me awake for a minute, they would have worn me down even more till I fully believed that I was saving kids by working the Program on them. I can't really hate somebody who never escaped so much as I pity them.
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Well shit. the one thing that I did pay attention at Benchmark was that anger did not exist.. Anger was a secondary emotion caused by pain or fear. If you feel angry, it must be for one of those two reasons. I have not been able to disprove it, and it sort of makes sense (and that was about the only thing).
hmm... interstingly.. googling "anger secondary emotion"
produces this link: eqi.org (http://http://eqi.org/anger.htm) sounds est-ish... what with the emotional intelligence(you're in your head)... A lot of the music they reference is from propheets / workshops (Lennon for example)
Jayne commented a few months ago in a phone interview that psychologists were too "in their heads"...
I asked her why she used sleep deprivation in the workshops... she said it was to help kids be a "little more real"
the shit spreads like a cancer. Shit. I'm constantly finding pieces of it i absorbed when I was at Benchmark... It's like pulling out pieces of glass... and there's nothing there to patch it up... and you wonder what was there before, and you can't remember.
the god damn rabbit hole just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
Well, they have been known to co-opt some otherwise useful thinking, terms, and techniques and bastardize them. Just like Hillary Clinton did with "It Takes A Village".
They (nor est) coined the thinking that anger is a secondary emotion. Conduct a different search, like, research + anger secondary emotion. You'll find plenty of clinical research.
Common sense bares this out as well. Would you ever get angry if you never felt physically or emotionally threatened in some way or violated, or any number of other things that fall under the heading of disrepect?
It is possible to arrive at a place where you can recognize and address the disrespect immediately, when first noticed, therefore eliminating the anger response. It's a matter of recognizing when the fight/flight response is necessary and when it's not. Most people who have achieved this are either saints or con artists. Spend some time with an esty. No matter how much they swear they are anger-free, you can find a button if you push long enough.
And that's one really fucked up thing about programs. They bait kids with heavy daily doses of disrespect, enough to anger a saint, and then punish them for their reaction. Disrespect in the form of inane rules, austere punishments, guilty until proven innocent, and basically insulting their intelligence. It's like being spanked and not allowed to cry. What happens to your self respect when you're not allowed to defend yourself, or question, or debate, or even have your feelings? All that anger gets pushed inside. I know one young man who post program broke his hand on two different ocassions by hitting a wall when all that suppressed rage surfaced.
So, not everything the program says is unique to it or est or synanon, they co-opt and bastardize a lot of otherwise good information. And totally misuse or use in hurtful ways. It could take a while to sort out the confusion. I think the effort is worth the trouble.
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On the other hand there are the program directors, parent liaisons, some Educational Consultants etc... who know what they are doing is wrong, yet continue to do it because it makes them so much money... Those people, who day after day, systematically destroy people's lives... I have absolutely no compassion for whatsoever.
I have to respond to this separately. I don't think there are very many people like this. Most of these people are just like the Muslims you describe; they truly and fully believe that what they're doing is good. Same for cops who kill innocents in SWAT raids looking for flowers, same for military snipers, bombers and various other kinds of sanctioned murderers. Same for my dad when he was a 16yo sailor far from home, believing he was protecting home and hearth from the heathen Japs.
I did, myself, take part in torturing other unfortunate strangers who found themselves in the same twilight zone as I did. At first, I didn't take part. Little by little, without any sort of reference or reenforcement, you forget what you think, you lose the habit of making your own judgments and what once was plain out wrong and cruel becomes normal.
Ditto here... Resisted at first, got punished... etc. you know the deal.
I have sympathy for the guards who beat Martin Anderson to death cause I know what it's like to torture a helpless kid, believing him to be acting defiant of his own volition and not even know till later that the poor kid had no volition.
See, it's only a matter of degrees. It happens that I had the impetus to haul ass at a time prior to graduating and going on staff. I had every intention of earning a scholarship to study marine biology at Woods Hole, Ma. in order to beg off of the staff assignment. But I know now that I never would have gotten that scholarship, having missed too much school and then been kept busy on staff. And, unless something else had happened to jolt me awake for a minute, they would have worn me down even more till I fully believed that I was saving kids by working the Program on them. I can't really hate somebody who never escaped so much as I pity them.
I know that. But consider even hitler thought he was helping people. People create justifications to survive. Because of guilt. And that guilt keeps them from seeing what they have done. Who could forgive themselves. I can't say I ever saw anybody resist more than a little while... If they want to suceed, they need to work the program... and that means redefining the value system. People think they are strong enough to resist. They are purely and simply, wrong. A certain person around here likes to think he's invincible i'm guessing. How fast he would become part of the system only we know.
I remember the people I hurt in program. I remember I thought i was helping them. I was sick. "I" wasn't "me". So yes I can see how somebody can oh so easily get sucked in. Was I weak? That is a question i cannot be kind to myself in answering. I was weak. I compromised my ethics for personal success. If just one person was willing to put others above himself, and not stray from that ideal... But I was not that person. Under pressure, I failed. The only thing that consoled me, is that everybody else failed as well.
I have as little tolerance for myself in terms of expections as i have for others. Perhaps the expectations are unrealistic, but I refuse to believe there is nobody who could resist.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw"
And I will hold to that until I die. Or may somebody put a bullet in my head for my failure.
Have you ever wished you could go back in... to test youself again, to inspire others with your refusal to compromise, to tear the place apart... To start a revolution. Maybe they would isolate me, but I would resist with every fiber of my body. Maybe it's unrealistic, but I can't quite describe the determination that drives me. This system needs to end and i refuse to believe it is unreasonable. Unrealitic maybe, but in that case, i don't care for reality. I'm too fucking stubborn. "Irrational beliefs prevent goal attainment"... pessimistic horse shit. I will not accept failure without a fight, and i will not forfeit. I know that nobody knows the future, and I know that determined people can, and have, changed history. I will not sit by and let this continue to happen. And i'm just fucking insane enough now to follow it through.
Maybe I had to fail to know what it was like. I don't know. But now that I know, I understand how it works, and I will not be fooled again. And I know that behavior propagates, and I know that resistance inspires hope, and I know that hope is your oxygen in program. I want to see kids saying "fuck you, i won't do what you tell me". I want to see them doing what they feel is right, regardless of the "consequence". I want to see riots in these schools. I want to see kids standing up, turning the tables and showing the world what goes on. I know it is possible. I has happened before. All it would take is a spark.
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Well shit. the one thing that I did pay attention at Benchmark was that anger did not exist.. Anger was a secondary emotion caused by pain or fear. If you feel angry, it must be for one of those two reasons. I have not been able to disprove it, and it sort of makes sense (and that was about the only thing).
hmm... interstingly.. googling "anger secondary emotion"
produces this link: eqi.org (http://http://eqi.org/anger.htm) sounds est-ish... what with the emotional intelligence(you're in your head)... A lot of the music they reference is from propheets / workshops (Lennon for example)
Jayne commented a few months ago in a phone interview that psychologists were too "in their heads"...
I asked her why she used sleep deprivation in the workshops... she said it was to help kids be a "little more real"
the shit spreads like a cancer. Shit. I'm constantly finding pieces of it i absorbed when I was at Benchmark... It's like pulling out pieces of glass... and there's nothing there to patch it up... and you wonder what was there before, and you can't remember.
the god damn rabbit hole just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
Well, they have been known to co-opt some otherwise useful thinking, terms, and techniques and bastardize them. Just like Hillary Clinton did with "It Takes A Village".
They (nor est) coined the thinking that anger is a secondary emotion. Conduct a different search, like, research + anger secondary emotion. You'll find plenty of clinical research.
Oh. That I found. However, only one of those links considered anger as only being a primary emotion. I remember googling the same thing just after I got out of benchmark and I stumbled along the same link.
Most of The clinical research and websites listed anger as both a primary and a secondary emotion, if not chiefly a primary emotion (something, that i actually argued originally in program)
see here (http://"ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/10132/32428/01513797.pdf?arnumber=1513797")
Among other things, I argued that seeing others being wronged made me angry. Injustice. It was early on in the program, which explains why I actually remember it. I sited "righteous anger" in defense of those who cannot defend themselves... Idealistic I was even then. But I underestimated their capability to influence me, even without my full knowledge. But at some point, I stopped caring. I was willing to give in, to give myself in, if it would make life a little more normal.
Most "personal growth" (alternating days all morning) revolved around the re-interpretation of various concepts, from love, to friendship.. etc. I doubt everything now. Love? Love was forbidden until level 2... good luck getting there without redefining Friendship. Friendship? "A friend is your needs answered"... without the rest of the poem. "The harsher the truth to tell, the truer the friend"... ratting.. ratting was helping another to follow the program. It was helping. It was helping. It was honorable to report when you saw something wrong happening, like breaking bans, or a kiss, or a love note passed... It was a threat to the program you see... They needed to protect us from ourselves because we were sick and didn't know what we wanted, or what was good for us. That's why we were there. We needed to be shown the way.
Group. Group was an all out friendship fest. Morning group before personal growth at 8am til 9. That's when you fill out your hitlists (i mean "rap sheets")
From 1 to 4 pm... Noon group... longer and more intense. Sometimes it would break up into smaller groups. This is when the staff would let you express your friendship to your friends on your rap sheet.
Cooking class. Aah. I loved cooking class. I got to cook and cook... I couldn't cook the way I used to though. No spontinaity. creativity was highly discouraged. But the food was still a rare treat. and when you graduated, you could invite one friend... but you had to be careful lest you isolate, or get too close to another... especially one of the opposite sex. no... That was not friendship...
Soon after I arrived in program, I baked an apple pie (dont' ask how i scraped together the materials... let's just say one of the anorexic chicks had a thing for apples and we came to an arrangement). Bargaining for the simplest of things was like one would do in prison.. but in prison, such thigs are expected, tolerated, and never was anybody ratted out. So i Baked this pie, and I delivered it to the neighboring apartment... It happened to be a girls apartment. So the next day I got in trouble for it.... and was confronted in group for it. (yes you guessed it, staff confiscated the contraband pie)... It sounds so absurd, but such an attempt at the slightest bit of normalcy, of kindness, was viewed as a threat.
I was cheerful. I was extroverted. I loved people, i loved crowds. I made friends with random people, i trusted everybody... I was innocent. I was sheltered, I was undamaged... and I learned. I learned to be shrewd. I learned to calculate the consequences of social cause and effect.. push a button here to get an effect here. I learned how to devastate. I learned how to destroy a person emotionally, verbally. I learned pressure points, and i pushed them... and i felt drunk on the power of it. But as much as I fucked over others... the same was done to me. Karma is like that and illustrated no better than in program. Towards then end, before they exiled me, i realized what they were doing and I stopped. I realized that if I was becoming the "real me"... i didn't want to be the "real me"... I realized they were mindfucking me, and i flat out confronted a counselor in group about it. He asked me "what about your realization that you were just wearing masks..." I told him that "everybody gets mindfucked once in a while"... I attempted to start a protest... It suceeded, but i would never find that out as I was exiled before the fruits of my labor could blossom. A host of students lost their levels becuase I convinced them that if they did not comply with the system, it could not function, and since they could not kick us all out, they would be forced to comply. They walked off property in protest. I was honored. I was surprised. But that action they took still gives me hope. My current plan for Benchmark relies on it.
Common sense bares this out as well. Would you ever get angry if you never felt physically or emotionally threatened in some way or violated, or any number of other things that fall under the heading of disrepect?
It is possible to arrive at a place where you can recognize and address the disrespect immediately, when first noticed, therefore eliminating the anger response. It's a matter of recognizing when the fight/flight response is necessary and when it's not. Most people who have achieved this are either saints or con artists.
Do you know what it is to feel completely numb? To be confused as to what is, and what isn't a feeling. Emotion is a choice remember. I choose to feel __________. Despite my initial attempts to argue the contrary... Something shut off at some point. Everything shut off at some point. There is danger in it, i know that. But there is also control... Whether or not it is an illusion... Am i supressing something, or am I truly dead inside. The more I research, the more I fight this, the closer i feel to who I was before, the more alive I feel again. I feel great now. I helped others, expecting nothing in return, and somehow something happened. Empathy, altruism, love, compassion, not hatred.
Like I said. Hatred fueled me initially several years ago. I thought it would be enough, but it burnt out, and it gave me no hope. Now i just want others to feel the same, to have the same chances i have had. Somehow doing this is reconnecting me to the humanity I once had. When Anne from Minessota goes on about Fornits and the negativity... How narrowminded.
Spend some time with an esty. No matter how much they swear they are anger-free, you can find a button if you push long enough.
People have tried. My boss commented that I was impossable to piss off, that he was surprised at everything I could take (work was very much a boys locker room, complete with practical jokes of the lowest kind... and humor to match)...
One time my idiot boss was yelling at me, and i turned around. I didn't feel like taking bothering with his crap. He was losing his memory and blaming everybody around him for the chaos he caused by doing things such as asking to re-verify the same stack of boxes every single day. he was upset nothign was getting done. It was comical were it not so sad to see (eventually he resigned).. So when I turned around (apparantly that's a big insult in the military) he became enraged, grabbed my arm, and twisted me around. Most people would react, fight back, punch him, flinch... anything. Nothing happened. His boss was coming down the hall (attracted by the yelling) so i put my arm on his shoulder and pretended we were talking quietly. He was grateful... but probably forgot the whole thing minutes later. In any case. I think he was more jarred by the incident than anything else. His idea of resolving disagreements was (literally) to go outside, fight, and go have a friendly beer afterwards. It sounds fucked up... but I suppose it worked where he came from. He wasn't used to dealing with civilians (still stuck in 'nam).
And that's one really fucked up thing about programs. They bait kids with heavy daily doses of disrespect, enough to anger a saint, and then punish them for their reaction.
And eventually you shut down to survive.
Disrespect in the form of inane rules, austere punishments, guilty until proven innocent, and basically insulting their intelligence. It's like being spanked and not allowed to cry. What happens to your self respect when you're not allowed to defend yourself, or question, or debate, or even have your feelings? All that anger gets pushed inside. I know one young man who post program broke his hand on two different ocassions by hitting a wall when all that suppressed rage surfaced.
Relinquishing control huh? I have no clue how. Prozac (especially such high doses i was on at Benchmark), when used in conjunction with Behavior modification, as far as my mother explains it, results in permanent changes in the brain. She says it's not set in stone until the mid 20s.
So, not everything the program says is unique to it or est or synanon, they co-opt and bastardize a lot of otherwise good information. And totally misuse or use in hurtful ways. It could take a while to sort out the confusion. I think the effort is worth the trouble.
What they sourced their information from... I know for a fact: est, lifespring, synanon(indirectly through CEDU) and various trinkets of eastern mysticism. Wherever it came from.. They used the tools they were given.
Maybe I'm ranting but I'm in Alpha mode right now (sleep disturbances) and i feel like I need to talk about this. I'm going to be doing a senior final project next semester (animation) and am preparing the script, storyboards, etc. It's based on program... not loosely at all. Ginger has heard the synopsis. Since I can't smoke weed in my house, this is the only method I know of to access that mode of thought. It's very useful for art, writing, and other creative stuff.
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Wow! Make a phone call and look what happens. I will catch up, I will, I will! LOL
Mean time...
People think they are strong enough to resist. They are purely and simply, wrong. A certain person around here likes to think he's invincible i'm guessing. How fast he would become part of the system only we know.
What do you think of this. Most people go around thinking that all they know and most of what they believe is based on clear perception and sound reason. The reality is (and you know this, I think you've even cited the same study I know about) that most of what we all know and believe is based on the reactions of those around us.
If I had understood that going in I would have been the biggest pain in the ass ever, taken my lumps but damned sure made an impression.
I hope you won't judge yourself too harshly. You've got a lot more on the ball now that most people I know and certainly more than most program vets at your current stage of the game. I hope that having us old heads around to corroborate and understand and expand each other's understanding of the whole odyssey has been as much a comfort and encouragement to you as you have been to me.
BUT please focus on that damned degree. This site may or may not last, the bonds and connects we've all made may or may not outlast the site. Who the hell knows? But you've got a damned fine head on your shoulders and more compassion than most. Attain a position of some independence and power and do as thou wilt.
And stay in touch.
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I'm going to be doing a senior final project next semester (animation) and am preparing the script, storyboards, etc. It's based on program... not loosely at all.
2D or 3D?
That's awesome that the school you are going to allows you to create your own short for your demo reel as part of the curriculum, as opposed to having to do it on your own time.
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Hate is when you constantly repost Miller Newton's phone number in hopes that people will call him and tell him what they think.
Damn skippy.
Preach on, Brother! Testify!
Ain't nothin' wrong with a little bit of the good hate..........
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By the way, that phone # is (727)392-3437. Give our old pal Virgil a call and thank him for inspiring, through his continuing criminal antics, so many wonderful works of satire . Ask him if he'd like to comment on any of them, or if his attorney has told him to shut the hell up about any of the shit he reads here. Ask him how he felt when his attorney explained the utter futility of trying to sue over any of the shit I or any of my pals have posted here. GO ahead, call and ask him. I gave you his goddamn phone number......
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I'm going to be doing a senior final project next semester (animation) and am preparing the script, storyboards, etc. It's based on program... not loosely at all.
2D or 3D?
That's awesome that the school you are going to allows you to create your own short for your demo reel as part of the curriculum, as opposed to having to do it on your own time.
3d. Stuff is already in the production pipeline. No. The Final project at GMU is a semester long (one class only) big long thing. I'm starting early so I can make it longer and more impressive.
No i'm not using Maya. I used to use Maya. I co-taught a class in maya charachter animation. I used to write mel. I have a very very in depth knowledge of Maya. I hate Maya. It's a bloated, buggy piece of shit that hasn't significantly changed since version 4.5..... I poop on it from a great height.
a few years ago I started moving to Blender. Now i'm doing everything in Blender. No crashes, painting weights "just works".. it's sculpt mode is faster than zbrush, UV unwrapping is done in seconds, not hours, well... it works on any platform, it's renderer is lighting fast, it shoots out multilayered .exr files it has a built in float based compositor (just like shake), it runs on a mac, windows, linux, bsd, irix, solaris, pocketPC etc etc... And it's 6 meg download.
I have always disliked commerical software. Now I can finally abandon the last piece of it (maya). Poop! Overpriced rip off... My last Charachter animation was in Blender. I was able to render it at HD 1080p at a sub 30 second frame rate.... with multiple layers, internal composting, depth of field, etc etc...
In short: Download blender.. Free, Open Source, and I contribute.. so it's my baby too:
http://http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/features/
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That's cool, man. It really is. I admire your dedication and I'm sure I'd be awed by your mad skills. But could we get back to the hate?
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I think I heard mention that the school was considering moving to blender.
No painting weights? *sigh* that must be dreamy. But then again, I'm not big into rigging. I suck at it.
If you are using Maya on a mac, then yes, it is incredibly buggy. It is less so on PC, but not by much. However, at least playblasting works.
How robust is blender compared to maya? Do you need an outside rendering engine?
The other thing that is a pain in the ass with maya are the cracks. Ugh. And the obnoxious wrapper.exe and java.exe processes that need to run for the docserver, which I still don't understand. I have zonealarm block those two processes unless I need to render, and I will only render offline as a result, just for safety reasons.
Oh, and lets not forget gimbal lock. That's always lovely. Precisely why it's better to animate in the graph editor.
But could we get back to the hate?
He was talking about hate. He was talking about how he hates Maya.
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I think I heard mention that the school was considering moving to blender.
No painting weights?
You don't have to, you can use envelopes if you want, or paint weights, or use a combination of the two techniques. Point is, the mesh doesn't blow up when you are painting weights like it does in maya (weight from the ass bone isn't spontaneously added to the head bone) It does this by not requiring weights to equal 1
*sigh* that must be dreamy. But then again, I'm not big into rigging. I suck at it.
If you are using Maya on a mac, then yes, it is incredibly buggy. It is less so on PC, but not by much. However, at least playblasting works.
I use it on both actually... though not much anymore. Oddly, Maya does have more problems with the mac version (crappy coding in Alias/Discreet's part)
How robust is blender compared to maya? Do you need an outside rendering engine?
No. The internal default renderer is very impressive as it is. Optional download is Yafray (that one has GI, FG... default only has AO) That being said. Since nobody does animations with GI/FG without a renderfarm, AO baked into the diffuse channel works just dandy (it's accurate too).
Node shading... You can get practically any look you can imagine using blender.. especially with the compositor. You can relight or even apply textures in UV space, in post! And the Multilayer .exr files (ILM's format) let you have all your rendered passes and layers in a single file / sequence.
http://http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/features/feature-videos/?video=imaging
The other thing that is a pain in the ass with maya are the cracks. Ugh. And the obnoxious wrapper.exe and java.exe processes that need to run for the docserver, which I still don't understand. I have zonealarm block those two processes unless I need to render, and I will only render offline as a result, just for safety reasons.
Oh, and lets not forget gimbal lock. That's always lovely. Precisely why it's better to animate in the graph editor.
Alias decided to integrate a web browser into their 3d application, creating a need for a webserver... which runs on java.. dumbshits. Like I said, bloat!
Blender's docs are in a wiki manual ... and when all else fails, the source is there and there are ppl all over you can ask questions (self included).
anyhoo. most of this info is on the linked blender "features" secton... back to hatin!
and some sleep
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I like the script idea. I hope it comes out professional quality and you wind up publishing it somehow.
The more I read about the day to day, on the ground life in other programs the more curious I become about the ties that bind them.
And where the hell does Trent Reznor get his inspiration? Still having trouble w. my soundcard, but have heard and read enough that I'm fairly certain it's not just vague reference to overall themes.
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Well? Discuss.
Shoot 'em in the back!
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It is possible to arrive at a place where you can recognize and address the disrespect immediately, when first noticed, therefore eliminating the anger response. It's a matter of recognizing when the fight/flight response is necessary and when it's not. Most people who have achieved this are either saints or con artists. Spend some time with an esty. No matter how much they swear they are anger-free, you can find a button if you push long enough.
I dunno, I like to think I am overall pretty free of Anger. I dont fit into either of those categories. It is just so stressful to be angry. I can see how kids in programmes are pretty pissed tho. They are living a nightmare that other crazy people are creating and they are powerless to change it. Which got me thinking. Perhaps anger is about feeling powerless and out of control. Perhaps the way to overcome this is to become a bit of a pessimist. if you expect the worst from others then it a pleasant surprise when they behave well.
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I used to think that way Oz Girl
I decided to not expect anything from anyone, that way you really can't be disapointed by them! no seriously, I thought about it and came to the conclusion that expecting anything from others was like it was my right to have them behave in a certain way - hope that makes sense.
As for hate, I don't hate anyone, I get angry and resent some of whats happened in the past, but I've got too much to do with my future to be wasting a whole heap of time on getting mad on what has gone by, can't change it now so why get the blood pressure at fatal point?
Getting mad is reserved especially for those I care enough about to do so, if I don't care about them, I don't give them a second thought, they don't get my thought time in anyway, let alone an emmotion that's only going to destroy me and no one else.
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20837 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20837)
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How can you all hate people that never hurt you? The majority of program employees don't abuse children. How can you apply hate to a subject as broad as child abuse? Especially those of you who never experienced it yourself? Do you not have other worries, concerns or resentments from your own life? I am sincerely curious.
There are worse things out there than private teen programs.
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I think a lot of people are in it to get laid.. I know I am.
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There are worse things out there than private teen programs.
Yep, some things past and some things present: WW2 concentration camps, North Korean "re-education" camps, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay...although some survivors might argue that those last two are probably better than the private teen prisons they experienced.
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If it is as bad as you claim, why do only a handful of program survivors post here out of the tens of thousands that should of also been abused?
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If it is as bad as you claim, why do only a handful of program survivors post here out of the tens of thousands that should of also been abused?
Congratulations, you have opened a can of worms. There will be a slew of replies about how it takes a while for the brainwashing to wear off (which is true in a lot of cases) etc.
A lot of these programs really sucked and still suck. Hell if I know the answer to your question though.
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If it is as bad as you claim, why do only a handful of program survivors post here out of the tens of thousands that should of also been abused?
Handful? 5 survivors? Where did you get that idea?
Look around the internet. You'll find plenty of survivors on MySpace, Facebook, personal blogs, other forums.
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Why don't they post here? Any opinions?
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I'm going to go ahead and flaunt my own credentials here. I am a merchant of hate, an international distributor. I acquire it and distribute it. I am inspired to burning hate in situations where few other people would be, and I can jump in it like Scrooge McDuck does with money. However, hate cannot be bought or sold (although acts of hate can be paid for), only given freely. However it can be molded, shaped, given form. My supply has gone from "unimaginable" to "practically limitless". The only reason you don't see more of it is that while my hate is unlimited, my time is not.
To prevent certain things from happening, I have several restrictions on my own hate, the relevant one here being that under no circumstances can I direct it at children.
Coming here was a bonanza. Fornits is an oil field, a gold mine, the land of milk and honey for hate. The hate around here is palpable and juicy, with a rich taste, bitter yet tangy. It's hard to process, which is why lesser hate lords don't come here. Hating, say, Jack Thompson or George Bush is easy. Hating Randall Hinton requires a lot more research into things you don't want to know about.
What I still don't get is why this is generally so ill-understood. I mean Jesus Christ, people, you sent your kids to torture pits and then proceeded to tell them they just had a "bad experience", what the hell else were you expecting to happen? Of course they're going to hate you! And they probably don't hate you nearly as much as they should, because their brains aren't capable of it!
How much do you think I know about hate? I'll tell you all what hate really is.
Hate is spite. Hate is revenge. Hate is always unconditional, as there are no qualifications to hate somebody. You just have to hate him.
Hate is destruction's principal vehicle. It is possible for someone to destroy with no hatred, but usually that someone is already really dangerous. Therefore hate is the only way to put down the shit in this world.
Hate is when someone pulls a mean prank on you, you pretend to forgive him, you go over to his house for a few beers and pour potassium cyanide in his drink. Wife rape optional.
Hate is when your father asks you for computer help, and you remember that one time he started spanking you in front of your friends when you were ten years old, so you go over and stock it full of child porn with backdated filenames to make it look like he's been hoarding it for years, and then call the FBI.
Hate is when you lose your temp-agency job, so you discover the address to email everyone at the host company, and use it to let them know they're all going to lose their jobs (This works best when there's a nugget of truth to it).
Hate is when you rip a man out of the closet and expose him for all to see as the perverted fuckhead he is, for no other reason than his existence disturbs you.
Hate is when you intentionally get AIDS just because you want to spread it to as many people as you can before you kill yourself.
Hate is when someone tries to teach you a lesson, and you intentionally learn the opposite.
Hate is when you look someone in the eyes and smile as you squeeze the trigger to add a third hole between them.
Hate is when you constantly repost Miller Newton's phone number in hopes that people will call him and tell him what they think.
Hate is when a teacher makes fun of you in school, and you end up going into politics thirty years later and, when given the opportunity, viciously, intentionally slash the education budget.
Hate is when your parents send you to SCL, you wait until you've graduated college, and then you retaliate by breaking off all contact and never even letting them see their grandchildren.
Hate is when your daughter skips school a few times and you retaliate by paying thousands of dollars to send her to be "behavior modified".
Hate is when you open up a shitpit to torture children in simply because the idea of children growing up- the process of adolescence- inspires your hate.
There's an old saying: "You can fool the fans, but you can't fool the players", and I'm the fucking grandmaster of this game. I roll my eyes every time the word "therapy" is said on this board, or people start talking about "treatment", or whatever. It's bullshit- it's all bullshit. You don't lock someone up in a little cell called "The Hobbit" unless you hate him. You don't wrap a teenage girl in a straitjacket called a "burrito" unless you hate her, nor do you force her, under threat of hours-long painful restraint, to divulge everything about her sex life. It doesn't matter how long you went to school, or what for, or what your new educational theory is, or anything else. This isn't treatment. This is hate.
The bullshit also comes from our side, as well. Regulatory agencies are a weapon, nothing more. George Miller's House bill is simply a method of removing shit that has no place on this planet. Let's not pretend otherwise.
The really nasty thing about programmies is that the vast majority of them seriously do not know that what they feel is hate. Some of them even think it's love. This leads to the condition known as "sick fuckery", in which horrors are visited upon children "for their own good", which is what feels good to the sadist in question.
But it's still hate.
talk talk talk talk , ive never seen anyone blab so much about themselves before trying to build up a rough exterior.. on the internet of all places... lmfao. :rofl: and look at these fools who believe your bs. priceless.
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I'm going to go ahead and flaunt my own credentials here. I am a merchant of hate, an international distributor. I acquire it and distribute it. I am inspired to burning hate in situations where few other people would be, and I can jump in it like Scrooge McDuck does with money. However, hate cannot be bought or sold (although acts of hate can be paid for), only given freely. However it can be molded, shaped, given form. My supply has gone from "unimaginable" to "practically limitless". The only reason you don't see more of it is that while my hate is unlimited, my time is not.
To prevent certain things from happening, I have several restrictions on my own hate, the relevant one here being that under no circumstances can I direct it at children.
Coming here was a bonanza. Fornits is an oil field, a gold mine, the land of milk and honey for hate. The hate around here is palpable and juicy, with a rich taste, bitter yet tangy. It's hard to process, which is why lesser hate lords don't come here. Hating, say, Jack Thompson or George Bush is easy. Hating Randall Hinton requires a lot more research into things you don't want to know about.
What I still don't get is why this is generally so ill-understood. I mean Jesus Christ, people, you sent your kids to torture pits and then proceeded to tell them they just had a "bad experience", what the hell else were you expecting to happen? Of course they're going to hate you! And they probably don't hate you nearly as much as they should, because their brains aren't capable of it!
How much do you think I know about hate? I'll tell you all what hate really is.
Hate is spite. Hate is revenge. Hate is always unconditional, as there are no qualifications to hate somebody. You just have to hate him.
Hate is destruction's principal vehicle. It is possible for someone to destroy with no hatred, but usually that someone is already really dangerous. Therefore hate is the only way to put down the shit in this world.
Hate is when someone pulls a mean prank on you, you pretend to forgive him, you go over to his house for a few beers and pour potassium cyanide in his drink. Wife rape optional.
Hate is when your father asks you for computer help, and you remember that one time he started spanking you in front of your friends when you were ten years old, so you go over and stock it full of child porn with backdated filenames to make it look like he's been hoarding it for years, and then call the FBI.
Hate is when you lose your temp-agency job, so you discover the address to email everyone at the host company, and use it to let them know they're all going to lose their jobs (This works best when there's a nugget of truth to it).
Hate is when you rip a man out of the closet and expose him for all to see as the perverted fuckhead he is, for no other reason than his existence disturbs you.
Hate is when you intentionally get AIDS just because you want to spread it to as many people as you can before you kill yourself.
Hate is when someone tries to teach you a lesson, and you intentionally learn the opposite.
Hate is when you look someone in the eyes and smile as you squeeze the trigger to add a third hole between them.
Hate is when you constantly repost Miller Newton's phone number in hopes that people will call him and tell him what they think.
Hate is when a teacher makes fun of you in school, and you end up going into politics thirty years later and, when given the opportunity, viciously, intentionally slash the education budget.
Hate is when your parents send you to SCL, you wait until you've graduated college, and then you retaliate by breaking off all contact and never even letting them see their grandchildren.
Hate is when your daughter skips school a few times and you retaliate by paying thousands of dollars to send her to be "behavior modified".
Hate is when you open up a shitpit to torture children in simply because the idea of children growing up- the process of adolescence- inspires your hate.
There's an old saying: "You can fool the fans, but you can't fool the players", and I'm the fucking grandmaster of this game. I roll my eyes every time the word "therapy" is said on this board, or people start talking about "treatment", or whatever. It's bullshit- it's all bullshit. You don't lock someone up in a little cell called "The Hobbit" unless you hate him. You don't wrap a teenage girl in a straitjacket called a "burrito" unless you hate her, nor do you force her, under threat of hours-long painful restraint, to divulge everything about her sex life. It doesn't matter how long you went to school, or what for, or what your new educational theory is, or anything else. This isn't treatment. This is hate.
The bullshit also comes from our side, as well. Regulatory agencies are a weapon, nothing more. George Miller's House bill is simply a method of removing shit that has no place on this planet. Let's not pretend otherwise.
The really nasty thing about programmies is that the vast majority of them seriously do not know that what they feel is hate. Some of them even think it's love. This leads to the condition known as "sick fuckery", in which horrors are visited upon children "for their own good", which is what feels good to the sadist in question.
But it's still hate.
talk talk talk talk , ive never seen anyone blab so much about themselves before trying to build up a rough exterior.. on the internet of all places... lmfao. :rofl: and look at these fools who believe your bs. priceless.
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what if you cant feel hate? or love or any other emotion.. what does that mean? i just like to fuck with peopl efor my own amusement.. but hate.. never known it.
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Alot of people post here...i dont know what you are saying..but if you go to testimony sites you can find more info...Im trying to get together a "super testimony site" that has everything together..if you look you can find 1000s upon 1000s of "stories"
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Alot of people post here...i dont know what you are saying..but if you go to testimony sites you can find more info...Im trying to get together a "super testimony site" that has everything together..if you look you can find 1000s upon 1000s of "stories"
that sounds like an awesome idea. i am just curious why more program survivors dont post on this forum, the biggest and most visible one when you search. i am not saYing they do not exist, hardly.
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Alot of people post here...i dont know what you are saying..but if you go to testimony sites you can find more info...Im trying to get together a "super testimony site" that has everything together..if you look you can find 1000s upon 1000s of "stories"
www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org)
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How can you all hate people that never hurt you? The majority of program employees don't abuse children. How can you apply hate to a subject as broad as child abuse? Especially those of you who never experienced it yourself? Do you not have other worries, concerns or resentments from your own life? I am sincerely curious.
There are worse things out there than private teen programs.
:-? That's like saying "you have to have a limb removed, you'll survive, but there are worse things out there, like having cancer"
My point being, just because there are worse things, it doesn't take away the pain from what the individual has suffered
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i understand the pain of those who suffered. that was addressed to those who never suffered a day and are the most fundamental in their beliefs of anti programism. youd think the real victims would be. leaches on a cause, leaches on a cause.