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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: kezzy123 on April 15, 2003, 01:13:00 PM

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: kezzy123 on April 15, 2003, 01:13:00 PM

I have a 14 year old daughter that has about pushed my wife and I to our limit and have pretty much decided that a behavioral boarding school is in her future.  We have spent countless hours researching different schools and cannot find any that don't have numerous horror stories associated with them.  Does anyoen have any good experiences?  Also, the costs seem to be overwhelming.  $5000+ / month is just not doable for us.  Thanks in advance.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2003, 01:35:00 PM

This may sound unusual, but try taking her to a GOOD, female Gynocologist.  If your daughter was not this way her entire life, it's possible that - even as early as 11 years old - she may have been hit hard by puberty and the influx of hormones that goes along with it. In a sense, she could have a strong form of PMS, or PMDD, that causes her hormone levels to run up and down, causing symptoms of depression, aggression, strong will to disagree, defensiveness (that's a big sign) and self descrutive behavior. Believe it or not, certain birth control pills are used to help regulate such hormones in young women, much like the medicines used for menapausal adult females. I hope you give this theory a chance. What harm will it do to find out if this is the cause?  None.  None at all.  Please try it.  And let me know what happens.  You can email me at haphazarddriver@yahoo.com.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: anon on April 15, 2003, 04:15:00 PM

I can second the first reply. It is something to consider. Its really fairly easy to figure out if it has to do with her cycle - because the behavior will also cycle.
My daughter has many issues to deal with and more than one mental disorder, so the picture was cloudy. However - I did notice that every time we had to call the police, she was about to start. In other words - her behavior was always a problem, but got much worse with PMS, and the pill does help.
As for the school - I have no first hand knowledge, but I have herd very good things about Mercy Ministries, in Tennesse. I may be wrong - but I seem to recal they work on a sliding scale - which helps - but it will cost a arm and leg now matter what. It just seems like kids do.
Like a neighbor of ours once told us - If you have kids, you don't have much else.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Antigen on April 15, 2003, 08:32:00 PM

First, let me tell you how good it is to know that some parents like you actually go to the trouble to check first before turning their kids over to anyone with a good sales pitch. If all of our parents had taken this kind of responsibility, none of us would have been abuse. Your daughter's a lucky kid and I envy her.

If your daughter is acting in a way that tries your patience, think of how much harder it would be for you to not lash out at her if she were just a stranger; someone else's kid who you had to put up with because you're being paid to put up with her. Even good people can be cruel sometimes.

Think about what the term "Behavior Modificaion" means. There's only one way to change someone's behavior against their will. You have to break their will. I think that you could go on and on checking into 'schools' that promise behavior modification and you'd only find that one after another uses psychological and/or physical abuse to accomplish it. Either that, you'll just get worn down by the process and land up running into someone with an especially good sales pitch at a time when you're especially vulnerable and just go with it.


I think the other two posters gave you some good advice. Not something I would have thought of. I hope you'll consider some more options as well. Does she have any other family that would be willing to have her visit for the summer? Sometimes, just a change of scenery and time away from a complex situation can give a kid the chance to figure things out, maybe to talk with you or someone else she trusts about what's bothering her.

One more thing, something my dad told me after the Program and we both had come to realize how messed up it all was. My daughter had been acting out, arguing, being hostile and dissobedient. I think she was about 12 then. I asked my dad how long it takes kids to get over it. He said "Till they're about 35" I was about 30 then.

I wish the three of you all the best. Please drop back and let us know how it works out.

Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe.  -- My First Summer in the Sierra , 1911, page 110.
John Muir

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: ehm on April 15, 2003, 08:41:00 PM

If you don't mind me asking, What are her problems?

Morli Rackers

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2003, 09:24:00 PM

This company is new.  In NO way related to WWASP and does not refer to ANY WWASP programs.  They may be able to help you.  At least they will be able to answer questions about programs.
http://www.teensatrisk.net (http://www.teensatrisk.net)

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 15, 2003, 10:20:00 PM

Utah?
Thanks but no thanks. Morman's cultic behavior modification program. Just because it has nothing to do with WWASP, doesn't mean it's clean. Parents shouldn't send children away period. What is wrong with you people? Always looking for the convenient easy way out. Life isn't easy, no matter how much money you have. Try loving your kid through it. Perhaps you are the reason your kid is so screwed up and hiding them is your answer. No matter, shame on you all! Pathetic excuses for parents!!!

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: kezzy123 on April 16, 2003, 12:02:00 AM

I guess I should have given a little more detail from the start.  So here goes.  Our problems with our daughter started about a year ago.  She had always been a little defiant and disrespectful towards her mother and I but was a perfect angel towards everyone else.  She was an honor student, athlete, and hung with a good group of kids.  We then noticed that she was starting to become disrespectful towards some other adults, most notably her teachers.  Her grades started falling and her behavior worsened.   Here's a rundown of some of the things we have dealt with within the last 3-4 months:
-She has had numerous after school suspensions.  She has been kicked out of some of those because of her behavior.  Frequently mouths off to teachers and has walked out of several classes.  She is now very close to being expelled.
-5 day out of school suspension for bringing alcohol to school.  This included a 45 day suspension from extra curricular activities which got her kicked off of the school soccer team.  The school is also requiring that she attend 4 alcohol and drug abuse counseling sessions.
-Hanging with a bad crowd and had joined a gang.
-She is horribly cruel to her 8 year old brother - verbally, not physically.
-She has developed a horrible temper and frequently uses profanity towards her mother and me.  She cannot deal with not getting her way.
-Took a razor and cut over 100 marks on her arm.
-She cannot control her anger.  On several occasions she has lost her temper and violently thrown things around in her room.  This last time I had to physically restrain her because she was in such a rage for fear that she would hurt herself or someone else.
-Defies our rules.
-Lying
-Her mother and I have missed quite a bit of work to attend school meetings and mandated counseling sessions.

She has been seeing counselor but it hasn't helped.  We are now planning to have her see a psychiatrist.  However, if this doesn?t help we feel that we may have no choice but to send her to boarding school.  Our home is in turmoil.  And it is really beginning to have an adverse effect on our son as well as our marriage.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: ehm on April 16, 2003, 12:28:00 AM

It's a natural instinct for children to pull away from their parents around that age for developmental reasons. She sounds like she definitely needs therapy, and a good psychiatrist, probably anti-depressants. The hormone treatment was a good suggestion. The cutting is related to  intense depression. You don't treat severe depression and disorderly behavior with more stress related trauma due to isolation and incarceration. Sending her away ultimately will make her worse. She needs your support, not for you to send her away for someone else to raise. She's testing you for some reason. Why would she be doing that?

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: kezzy123 on April 16, 2003, 10:16:00 AM

The arm cutting is what prompted us to get her into counseling.  She admitted that she was depressed and the counselor put her on Zoloft.  That did seem to help some but our daughter, out of anger and defiance, dumped them down the drain recently and refuses to take them anymore.  We are not trying to have someone else raise her.  We feel that, among other things, an environment change, will benefit her.  Our goal is to get her some help and get her back.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Antigen on April 16, 2003, 03:34:00 PM

I've heard that this one is a Trojan. That they bring hopeless cases against WWASP, ignoring sound ones, to create the illusion of annimosity then ship kids off to newer, less well known abusive institutions.

As with any strangers, don't take candy and do be very, very skeptical.

On 2003-04-15 18:24:00, Anonymous wrote: "This company is new.  In NO way related to WWASP and does not refer to ANY WWASP programs.  They may be able to help you.  At least they will be able to answer questions about programs. http://www.teensatrisk.net (http://www.teensatrisk.net)  "

Jails and prisons are the complement of schools; so many less as you have of the latter, so many more you must have of the former

--Horace Mann

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2003, 03:37:00 PM

Please take a look at these sights. See if this seems to be what your dealing with. If so, you need to have very knowlegable help, and the average shrink won't do. Nor would the average program.


http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/ (http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/)

http://www.parent2parentbpd.org/ (http://www.parent2parentbpd.org/)

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2003, 07:44:00 PM

Antigen,
You are WAY off base.  Where did you get that information??? You need to do your homework before making aligations that you so obviously know nothing about.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2003, 08:36:00 PM

On 2003-04-16 16:44:00, Anonymous wrote: "Antigen, You are WAY off base.  Where did you get that information??? You need to do your homework before making aligations that you so obviously know nothing about."

 You wouldn't happen to be the owner or employed through this organization? http://www.teensatrisk.net (http://www.teensatrisk.net) doesn't even seem to have a valid business license and appears to be using false or misleading whois info on the domain name.

I was under the impression that this forum was for awareness, not for plugging your website. Find a new outlet.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: ehm on April 16, 2003, 10:57:00 PM

Do you have a list of 'Options of Action' that you may be able to sit  down and discuss with her? What made her throw the Zoloft out? Those really should help her.
 Summer is coming, why don't one of you take some time off, and take her away for a while. 'Back to nature' away not 'treatment away'. Time to talk about life with eachother. To connect. Discuss options... I'm not trying to tell you what to do, these are only suggestions I wish someone would have given my mom. You have to know, love, and trust eachother. No-one can be there for her better than the two of you.  In conjunction with quality long term therapy, that she is a willing participant in. You may have to shop around a lot. That does not mean it's not out there. Unfortunately there are quacks in any line of business. Be selective. Trust your intuitions.
 Affirming to her constantly that she is not trusted, will only make her feel guilty, making matters worse. Comunication is the only answer. You can't have that without,KNOWLEDGE, TRUST, and LOVE. If you don't know your own child, that's where you should start. Her recognizing she has a problem of some kind is a good begining also. There are no instant cures for any mental disorders. No matter what they are.
Best of luck to you.
Morli

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2003, 12:18:00 AM

I agree with you, this forum is for awareness.  Letting parents know there are options out there is part of that awareness.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2003, 10:10:00 AM

I feel for you.  Went through similar problems with my daughter .  Her behavior was tearing our lives apart.  Every time the phone would ring my heart would sink.  She is now 17 and seems to have grown out of it.  But not before it cost me my marriage.  I wanted to send our daughter to a standard boarding school (not the behavioral type) but my husband did not.  He traveled alot on business and wasn't here to have to deal with the daily choas that she was causing.  That left me to deal with the counseling appointments, meetings at school, etc.  It was actually my husband that left because I had nothing inside left to give him.  Throwing a divorce on top of the problems we already had with our daughter just made things worse.  Thank God we didn't have any other kids.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2003, 10:28:00 AM

That's absolutely horrible. Sounds like you weren't that dedicated to the marriage to begin with. At least your daughter is better now.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: str8isabuse on April 17, 2003, 06:20:00 PM

your daughter may have thrown the zoloft away because of side effects of that medication.  zoloft is marketed as one of the new ssri anti-depressants with relatively few side effects, but each patient reacts differently and some people do in fact have unpleasant side effects.  you should talk to her and her psychiatrist about this and consider trying a second or third medication instead.  it takes time to find the right one.  she is too young to understand this.

sending your daughter away may temporarily ease the stress in your life, but it will hurt her terribly in the long run unless you send her to a fantastic place that she falls in love with, thrives at, and allows her to maintain close communication (unmonitored) with you at all times.  typically you get what you pay for, so i doubt most of us could ever afford the perfect place.  in any event, if you send her away, she will know that you abandoned her, and this will scar her for life.  like it or not, she is your daughter and you owe her support and yes, even love at this point in her life.  you really only have a few years left in which you can play a significant role in her life.  

a consultation with the obgyn about pms and hormonal imbalance is a good idea as her hormones fluctuate quite a bit during the month, affecting her mood significantly.  taking a fun, relaxing trip to a place you both would enjoy for some bonding is a wonderful idea.  try to remember her good points, talk about her recent difficulties and tell her you are worried and want to help.  she may be concerned also if she is in as much trouble as you have indicated.

good luck to you.



[ This Message was edited by: str8isabuse on 2003-04-17 15:21 ]

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2003, 07:42:00 PM

http://www.mercyministries.com/mm_whoweare.html (http://www.mercyministries.com/mm_whoweare.html)

This is the link to Mercy Ministries who we are page.
Again, I have no first hand knowledge, but have herd very good things.

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2003, 05:42:00 PM

they are based out of nashville TN. this is a volentary program only! communication is encouraged and unmonitered and kept open. Example saterdays you can call in all day and your daughter is allowed to make 2 phone calles on sunday as well. there is also no time limits on calls, that does not mean talk all day but you get the point. Your daughter must interview for the program if she is accepted it is FREE. They are christain based just so you know. I have heard good things about them too. So i reserched them and that is how i know about Mercy, just incase you was wondering. I forgot to say Mon throught FRI phone calls are not allowed unless it is a emergancy, my guess is that they dont want to interfear with school and the programs functiuons during the week. hope this helps.

thanks devlin

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: FaceKhan on April 21, 2003, 12:16:00 AM

It sounds like your daughter is already severely depressed. Sending her away will almost certainly make it worse. In general forcing someone into any kind of institution, even a traditional one or a "perfect one" is generally more harmful than good.

If the zoloft were really working for her and not causing unwanted side effects she probably would not be refusing it. Having been depressed myself, I can tell you that if there was a magic pill out there that would have made me feel better without causing a lot of negative side effects I would have taken it.

Maybe you should look into switching to a therapist that will respect your daughters wishes to work through her problems without drugs.

At one point my therapist let me call him every morning at 6am when I had to wake up to get to school. If he had just told me to pop a pill every morning I doubt I would have had as much success.

At 90-200 bucks an hour you should be getting more than a pill dispensary in a therapist.

"Whats the difference between a psychiatric drug and a placebo? One of them has unwanted side-effects"

Title: Are there any good schools that don't cost and arm & leg
Post by: Anonymous on July 30, 2003, 09:00:00 PM

man, just dont send her to a wwasps program, and if you do send her off, make sure you research it thoroughly and know exactly where shes going and how it is, and ask yourself if you would be able to handle being there yourself. get firsthand experiences from teens like me about it. here's some 1st hand experience: i would do any event in my life over again before going back to the wwasp program. it is awful and no one should have to go through it. now i pity you if you send her there because you know that it's horrible now. sending her to a relative's is a good idea too if youre looking for an environment change, there are many other options than just letting some other people that you dont know take care of the situation. be creative. my advise is forget the whole behavior modification school idea. you cant change anyone who doesnt want to change, and trying to makes things worse and brings unnecessary drama.