Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Troll Control on February 27, 2007, 02:46:30 PM
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The LCSO has confirmed that they did respond to a suicide attempt at HLA last week. A young woman attempted to cut her wrists.
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But HLA says that suicide attempts don't occur. Wow - it's a good thing there aren't copies of 911 transcripts. Oh wait - there are!
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In this case it was confirmed by the local paper. LCSO told them the details of the call.
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I may be wrong, but I am not aware of anywhere HLA has said that suicide attempts do not occur. Can you site, and show, your source on that?
Also, who in the LCSO is qualified to distinguish between a suicide attempt and an incident of self harm? They are two very different things that I doubt the LCSO is trained to know the difference between.
The child may have tried to kill herself, I am just saying you can't really count on bubba from the sheriffs office to be able to make that call.
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Also, who in the LCSO is qualified to distinguish between a suicide attempt and an incident of self harm? They are two very different things that I doubt the LCSO is trained to know the difference between.
The child may have tried to kill herself, I am just saying you can't really count on bubba from the sheriffs office to be able to make that call.
Bubba may not be qualified, but I've never heard of cutters slicing their wrists. Cutting is usually in a concealed area. She may have stated as much, if there was a police report.
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Welcome to the HLA board, where anonymous trolls can come on and accuse teenage girls of not trying to kill themselves when slashing their wrists!
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I am simply questioning the validity of the report. My guess is that any form of self harm would be labeled a suicide attempt by someone who has not been trained to know the difference. One of the great things about this board is that the people here questions the validity of things. I whole heartedly agree with people doing that not only to HLA but to anyone else that makes a statement that may not be true, including the LCSO. If you pick and choose who you question it lessens your argument against HLA because you just look like a disgruntled ex-student/employee/parent with an agenda. You would be better served seeking the truth instead of building a case. With all HLA (Len) has done the truth is all you need.
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Also, who in the LCSO is qualified to distinguish between a suicide attempt and an incident of self harm? They are two very different things that I doubt the LCSO is trained to know the difference between.
The child may have tried to kill herself, I am just saying you can't really count on bubba from the sheriffs office to be able to make that call.
Bubba may not be qualified, but I've never heard of cutters slicing their wrists. Cutting is usually in a concealed area. She may have stated as much, if there was a police report.
You are right. It is usually in a concealed area, but not always, and it is on the wrists more often than you probably think. It is very possible that this poor child did try to kill herself, and that is a tragedy if true. My point is that the sherrif's office is not qualified to make that call. Do we know if the girl was hospitalized? Was the mobile assessment team called in to do an evaluation? If so, what does their report say. If they call it an attempted suicide then that has validity because they would be licensced mental health professionals.
I also would like to point out the hipocracy of this. If someone from the LCSO wrote in their report that HLA handled things with a high level of professionalism and skill the people on this board would be slamming the LCSO as not being qualified to make such a statement, but if they say a girl attempted suicide they take it as the gospel truth.
Again, it may have been a suicide attempt and HLA may have been at great fault. You just can't tell from a police report.
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Milk gets a little paranoid sometimes.... what can we say?
More importantly, the answer to the question about suicides comes straight from the horse's mouth. This is HLA's very own response regarding suicide attempts:
· Plaintiffs allege several suicide attempts in recent months and acts of violence by students on other students (¶¶ 49-50). Those allegations are false.
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/FrequentQuestions.aspx (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/FrequentQuestions.aspx)
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Also, who in the LCSO is qualified to distinguish between a suicide attempt and an incident of self harm? They are two very different things that I doubt the LCSO is trained to know the difference between.
The child may have tried to kill herself, I am just saying you can't really count on bubba from the sheriffs office to be able to make that call.
Bubba may not be qualified, but I've never heard of cutters slicing their wrists. Cutting is usually in a concealed area. She may have stated as much, if there was a police report.
You are right. It is usually in a concealed area, but not always, and it is on the wrists more often than you probably think. It is very possible that this poor child did try to kill herself, and that is a tragedy if true. My point is that the sherrif's office is not qualified to make that call. Do we know if the girl was hospitalized? Was the mobile assessment team called in to do an evaluation? If so, what does their report say. If they call it an attempted suicide then that has validity because they would be licensced mental health professionals.
I also would like to point out the hipocracy of this. If someone from the LCSO wrote in their report that HLA handled things with a high level of professionalism and skill the people on this board would be slamming the LCSO as not being qualified to make such a statement, but if they say a girl attempted suicide they take it as the gospel truth.
Again, it may have been a suicide attempt and HLA may have been at great fault. You just can't tell from a police report.
Or maybe the LCSO has been called to the carpet and is now doing what they should have done years ago. If HLA called the police, then it must have been a serious attempt as they too are under much scrutiny.
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Also, who in the LCSO is qualified to distinguish between a suicide attempt and an incident of self harm? They are two very different things that I doubt the LCSO is trained to know the difference between.
The child may have tried to kill herself, I am just saying you can't really count on bubba from the sheriffs office to be able to make that call.
Bubba may not be qualified, but I've never heard of cutters slicing their wrists. Cutting is usually in a concealed area. She may have stated as much, if there was a police report.
You are right. It is usually in a concealed area, but not always, and it is on the wrists more often than you probably think. It is very possible that this poor child did try to kill herself, and that is a tragedy if true. My point is that the sherrif's office is not qualified to make that call. Do we know if the girl was hospitalized? Was the mobile assessment team called in to do an evaluation? If so, what does their report say. If they call it an attempted suicide then that has validity because they would be licensced mental health professionals.
I also would like to point out the hipocracy of this. If someone from the LCSO wrote in their report that HLA handled things with a high level of professionalism and skill the people on this board would be slamming the LCSO as not being qualified to make such a statement, but if they say a girl attempted suicide they take it as the gospel truth.
Again, it may have been a suicide attempt and HLA may have been at great fault. You just can't tell from a police report.
Is it, or has it ever been, HLAs policy to call the LCSO in cases of cutting?
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I may be wrong, but I am not aware of anywhere HLA has said that suicide attempts do not occur. Can you site, and show, your source on that?
Also, who in the LCSO is qualified to distinguish between a suicide attempt and an incident of self harm? They are two very different things that I doubt the LCSO is trained to know the difference between.
The child may have tried to kill herself, I am just saying you can't really count on bubba from the sheriffs office to be able to make that call.
Here's something interesting to note, you brought up that the LCSO isnt trained to distinguish between cuters and someone actually trying to kill themselves. Here's the thing though, neither are most of the staff there.
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I may be wrong, but I am not aware of anywhere HLA has said that suicide attempts do not occur. Can you site, and show, your source on that?
Also, who in the LCSO is qualified to distinguish between a suicide attempt and an incident of self harm? They are two very different things that I doubt the LCSO is trained to know the difference between.
The child may have tried to kill herself, I am just saying you can't really count on bubba from the sheriffs office to be able to make that call.
Here's something interesting to note, you brought up that the LCSO isnt trained to distinguish between cuters and someone actually trying to kill themselves. Here's the thing though, neither are most of the staff there.
That may or may not be true now, but in the past HLA sent staff members to a conference on cutters and had a speaker come speak to the entire faculty about this issue.
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Also, who in the LCSO is qualified to distinguish between a suicide attempt and an incident of self harm? They are two very different things that I doubt the LCSO is trained to know the difference between.
The child may have tried to kill herself, I am just saying you can't really count on bubba from the sheriffs office to be able to make that call.
Bubba may not be qualified, but I've never heard of cutters slicing their wrists. Cutting is usually in a concealed area. She may have stated as much, if there was a police report.
You are right. It is usually in a concealed area, but not always, and it is on the wrists more often than you probably think. It is very possible that this poor child did try to kill herself, and that is a tragedy if true. My point is that the sherrif's office is not qualified to make that call. Do we know if the girl was hospitalized? Was the mobile assessment team called in to do an evaluation? If so, what does their report say. If they call it an attempted suicide then that has validity because they would be licensced mental health professionals.
I also would like to point out the hipocracy of this. If someone from the LCSO wrote in their report that HLA handled things with a high level of professionalism and skill the people on this board would be slamming the LCSO as not being qualified to make such a statement, but if they say a girl attempted suicide they take it as the gospel truth.
Again, it may have been a suicide attempt and HLA may have been at great fault. You just can't tell from a police report.
Is it, or has it ever been, HLAs policy to call the LCSO in cases of cutting?
It has not been their policy in the past, though it may be now that they have to go by state regulations. HLA would often have a police officer trasport a child in case of hospitalization.
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I'm sure thats true, let me ask you this though. Since HLA likes to pretend that no kid has ever tried to kill themselves while at HLA doesnt that push staff towards declaring any suicide attempt as simply "cutting". What about the girl who hung herself?
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Has the Department of Human Resources been notified of these
last situations?
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As was asked earlier, where does HLA claim that no one has ever attempted suicide there? I'm not saying they haven't claimed that, I am just saying I have not heard that. Please show me documentation of that if it is true. If it is true it is a MAJOR lie. The biggest incident being the girl you mentioned that hung herself. I know HLA has claimed to never have had a suicide at the school, which is true.
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It all goes back to each person's individual experience. I asked the question and was told there were never suicide attempts or violent attacks against students. A couple months later my son was violently attacked and another student tried to hang himself.
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It all goes back to each person's individual experience. I asked the question and was told there were never suicide attempts or violent attacks against students. A couple months later my son was violently attacked and another student tried to hang himself.
Then yes. You were lied to in a major way. There have been numerous incidents of violence and a handful of what I would consider true suicide attempts.
Also, I agree with you that it goes back to each individuals experience. To me, that is HLA's legacy. The innability to be consistent. There are families who were undoubtedly hurt by HLA. There are also families who were undoubtedly helped by HLA. Much of the blame for that falls on HLA. Some of the blame falls on the families.
One thing that HLA never did a good job of was screening families for readiness to work within a program. A lot of this goes back to HLA not fully disclosing things such as you have listed above. Families should know 100% of what their child was going to go through before allowing them to enroll. By not fully disclosing (an ethical violation by the way) HLA only hurt themselves because those are the families that withdrew their children early cost the school money. Len could never understand that doing things the right way from the beginning would eventually lead to having a successful school.
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I agree that it is up to the individual experience of each family. I had a bad experience with HLA. The staff are the ones that are the master manipulators. Lots of parents fall for what they tell them. I was never someone who fell for whatever I heard. I learned by experience how HLA is. How can any child thrive in this negative environment? My child is doing so much better now that he is out of HLA..He was not good at first, however, is doing much better now with our love and support. :D
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I agree that it is up to the individual experience of each family. I had a bad experience with HLA. The staff are the ones that are the master manipulators. Lots of parents fall for what they tell them. I was never someone who fell for whatever I heard. I learned by experience how HLA is. How can any child thrive in this negative environment? My child is doing so much better now that he is out of HLA..He was not good at first, however, is doing much better now with our love and support. :D
Families like yours are exactly who I am talking about. Your family should have been screened out and never enrolled in the first place. And that is said with absolutely no judgement toward you. Some families do well in a program and some don't. My guess is that if you had full disclosure about what happened at HLA you would not have enrolled your child. Other families see the things that are done at HLA and are all for it. Some families, far to many in fact, get counselors that are not qualified to work at a TBS and that makes things exremely miserable for everyone.
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Families like yours are exactly who I am talking about. Your family should have been screened out and never enrolled in the first place. And that is said with vindictiveness toward you. Some parents think their kids do well in a program and some don't buy into the brainwashing. My guess is that if you had full disclosure about what happened at HLA you would not have enrolled your child, like any other sane person. Other parents see the things that are done at HLA and are all for it being done to their kids, which makes one wonder why they were allowed to have kids int he first place. Some families, almost everybody in fact, get counselors that are sadistic and unqualified, and that makes things extremely miserable for their kids. But not the counselors, of course. They're masturbating.
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I agree that it is up to the individual experience of each family. I had a bad experience with HLA. The staff are the ones that are the master manipulators. Lots of parents fall for what they tell them. I was never someone who fell for whatever I heard. I learned by experience how HLA is. How can any child thrive in this negative environment? My child is doing so much better now that he is out of HLA..He was not good at first, however, is doing much better now with our love and support. :D
Families like yours are exactly who I am talking about. Your family should have been screened out and never enrolled in the first place.
On what basis, should this family have been "screened out"? Appears they weren't unhappy until after the fact. How do you screen out people who oppose the methods and procedures when they don't know until some time passes, what that entails?
Some families do well in a program and some don't. My guess is that if you had full disclosure about what happened at HLA you would not have enrolled your child. Other families see the things that are done at HLA and are all for it.
Full disclosure will never happen in a program, ever. Other families may be fine with what they see, but NO family is aware of everything unless they ask many questions and talk to their child.
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If HLA disclosed their methods and the parents did not agree then they should, at that point, be screened out. You may be right that a program will never disclose everything. I think they ought to though if they want to survive in this industry.
I am not saying it is the families fault for not being screened out. It is HLA's fault for not having the appropriate measures in place. Ironically that practice ends up hurting HLA in the long run but more importantly the families.
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I am simply questioning the validity of the report. My guess is that any form of self harm would be labeled a suicide attempt by someone who has not been trained to know the difference. One of the great things about this board is that the people here questions the validity of things. I whole heartedly agree with people doing that not only to HLA but to anyone else that makes a statement that may not be true, including the LCSO. If you pick and choose who you question it lessens your argument against HLA because you just look like a disgruntled ex-student/employee/parent with an agenda. You would be better served seeking the truth instead of building a case. With all HLA (Len) has done the truth is all you need.
Well, I certainly agree with you there. I think all that need be done is to allow HLA to rise or fall on their own merit. I think this is happening curently.
I also believe that the people who have blown the whistle on some very amoral and illegal behavior on HLA's part simply level the playing field with a very powerful player. It's not the intent to report fabricated information for the purpose of staining HLA's reputation; rather it is exposing the "credibility gap" exposed when one compares real practices with what is disclosed before enrollment. This is, in my opinion, criminal and tragic.
As I have related to others, all we have to trade is our credibility. People who are pushing for oversight are exposing serious problems with some of these facilities, and to do that, one must trade in credible information with sources and documentation or one cannot get traction with oversight bodies that are very reluctant to act, even if it is in the public interest to do so.
So it's important to try to wade through some of the hyperbole and get down to the verifiable facts of the matter if you're looking for information here - I think we all can agree on that. Use the reaction of the oversight agencies as a yardstick to measure how credible the information is.
You have also added value to the conversation and I think everyone appreciates that, too. I think you hit on the central point of the issue as well - full disclosure.
HLA is now paying for that, as consumers were unhappy with their product after being sold a bill of goods. So the public sector is holding HLA accountable in a different way.
But the benefit of both endeavors (law enforcement activities and civil redress of grievances) is to force HLA to provide what they advertise and to comply with applicable law. At least this will be some measure of protection for the kids unfortunate enough to end up there...
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If HLA disclosed their methods and the parents did not agree then they should, at that point, be screened out. You may be right that a program will never disclose everything. I think they ought to though if they want to survive in this industry.
I am not saying it is the families fault for not being screened out. It is HLA's fault for not having the appropriate measures in place. Ironically that practice ends up hurting HLA in the long run but more importantly the families.
Ironically it's HLA who gets to keep the parents' 3 month deposits because families aren't "screened" properly. What a load of crap. Rip the parents off and then blame them. Nice.
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It may have changed, but the policy used to be that families had 30 days to withdraw without losing their deposit.
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I've never heard of that policy, but what I do know from personal experience is for those first 30 days they'll tell you how screwed up your kid is and how much your child needs to be there and what wonderful things they can do for your child.
Combine that with the fact that you don't get to talk or see your child for any significant amount of time in the first 30 days... they're brilliant in finding every little loophole.
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Someone said that the report recently of a child trying to take her life was in the local paper. Can anyone post that newspaper article out here if they have it.
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Does anyone have this article?
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Does anyone have this article?
I don't, but if it was published in The Nugget, you can contact the paper to get a link or a copy. Try talking to Matt Aiken and see if he can forward it to you...
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Anybody know the condition of the girl or whether or not she is getting the treatment she needs?
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Anybody know the condition of the girl or whether or not she is getting the treatment she needs?
Well, she's alive. I assume she's still at HLA, so, in that case, no, she's not getting the help she needs.