Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 25, 2007, 09:57:13 PM
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Please read...this includes everyone.
ok...I'm anti program...but that doesn't matter right now.
I have been away from fornits for the most part for almost a year.
My background...post program...is in Economics.
We are currently fucked...most of us.
Stop reading fornits...stop watching mainstream television...start looking at what is happening with the housing meltdown and the sub-prime lender meltdown that is currently snowballing at an alarming rate.
I could direct you to all kinds of economic literature that would show the seriousness of what has been discussed for the past few years during the global "Housing Bubble"...but if you would rather read about it in entertaining...albeit alarming...way...then go to
http://housingpanic.blogspot.com (http://housingpanic.blogspot.com)
Read all you want. You will then understand as the blogger is very educated in the topic on what he speaks...he cashed out at the peak in Phoenix and is now renting in London and travelling around the world studying it.
It is not a lib vs dem thing...and has jack shit to do with programs.
Right now the shit is hitting the fan and with the equity/speculative asset market bubble that we have created the "crash" will make the great depression look like a walk in the park.
It is nothing new...it is a cycle...nothing can be done...it has happened throughout time...all booms eventually bust.
I wish you all well...survivors, programmies and trolls alike.
Time to stop arguing about programs...the parents that have their kids there will most likely end up going bankrupt due to their exotic mortgage that they got or the cash out refinancing where people thought there house was little more than an ATM.
Study...learn how to prepare for an economic depression...and you will be better off in the long run.
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Paging Ginger to the main forum. Ginger to delete the spam please.
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Guest, you mind if I move this over to Open Freeforall?
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Well, you can move it but it is relavent to the Troubled Teen Industry. The reason being is that a lot of parents do not have $40,000 laying around, and take money out of their homes to get their kids into these schools (false equity).
I can't tell you how many people I deal with on a daily basis that got themselves into 2/28 ARMS with a 3 year pre-payment penalties. The mortgage industry had appraisers in their back pockets basically letting the mortgage brokers tell them how much they needed these homes to appraise for, and they did. These parents looked at this as free money. It was the only way to be able to afford these schools.
Now, these people are stuck in these homes that they cannot afford since the interest rates keep rising, and rising. They can't afford to refinance. They end up having to sell their home. It's tragic, it really is. Most parents cannot afford to send their kids away at $40,000 a year.
Most of these kids problems can be solved at home. The ones with more serious problems sometimes do need treatment. But, these parents get themselves in way over their head. Afterwards when they are renting a tiny little apartment because they lost their home they probably blame their kid.
What to say except it is very sad.
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What to say except it is very sad.
For the kids, yes.
To their parents, I have only one message:
(http://http://www.endscore.com/blogimages/nelson.jpg)
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I've been watching this for years.
Used to be that your mortgage payment couldn't exceed 25% of your annual income.
And as you said CCM:
The mortgage industry had appraisers in their back pockets basically letting the mortgage brokers tell them how much they needed these homes to appraise for, and they did.
among other things.
When home sales decreased due to overinflated prices, they increased the limit to 33%.
Price of housing continued to escalate.
Now we have "No Disclosure" loans. Don't even have to state or prove you have an income. For a price, of course.
There is a ceiling on everything. I'm surprised it took this long.
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I agree with CCM it is tragic. For all we know that money could have been going to the College fund of the TBS student. Now they are without it. Surely Milk you are not suggesting that the other children in the family deserve to be out of a home or an education as well because of their parents mistake?
I know if this system took off here banks would be doing a happy dance. The retail bank i used to work for would cry with joy when a youing married couple would come in. It would start with the mortgage upsell. "it is a hot climate you need enough for a pool as well" then shift gears to the kids education.
"Yes i know there is an adequate public school in the expensive area you live in but we hear they are becoming violent cesspools. Borrow some more for private education. "
Throw schhols for delinquency into the mix and the bank is laughing
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Ginger...by all means...move it where you like...I just wanted to post it where I knew it would be seen.
and no...this is not spam...CCM knows what's up but there has been and will be futher spillover into the alt-A and the Prime markets.
and trust me...this really isn't a laughing matter.
sorry for the multiple posts also...that was an accident...if you could delete those that would be great.
okb4rma
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Here, perhaps, is a related concern... Did you know that there is nothing more "federal" about the Federal Reserve Bank than there is about Federal Express? The Federal Reserve Bank is a private bank, a cabal, actually, made up of several banks whose identities are apparently kept secret from us plebian sorts... The Federal Government pays the Federal Reserve to print out our money, said payment being actually our taxes. The gold at Fort Knox which is supposed to back our currency is being held by the Federal Reserve "in trust". And you wonder about the source for inflation... And a "crash" when the money is meaningless...
I posted some links to a movie about this in Tacitus' Realm. I would love to get some feedback... My background clearly is NOT economics and ordinarily I am so focused on problems that are more belly-button in nature to have much of a clue about this kind of thing...
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20720 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20720)
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Well, you can move it but it is relavent to the Troubled Teen Industry. The reason being is that a lot of parents do not have $40,000 laying around, and take money out of their homes to get their kids into these schools (false equity).
I can't tell you how many people I deal with on a daily basis that got themselves into 2/28 ARMS with a 3 year pre-payment penalties. The mortgage industry had appraisers in their back pockets basically letting the mortgage brokers tell them how much they needed these homes to appraise for, and they did. These parents looked at this as free money. It was the only way to be able to afford these schools.
Now, these people are stuck in these homes that they cannot afford since the interest rates keep rising, and rising. They can't afford to refinance. They end up having to sell their home. It's tragic, it really is. Most parents cannot afford to send their kids away at $40,000 a year.
Most of these kids problems can be solved at home. The ones with more serious problems sometimes do need treatment. But, these parents get themselves in way over their head. Afterwards when they are renting a tiny little apartment because they lost their home they probably blame their kid.
What to say except it is very sad.
Well said. Too bad the ACTUAL treatment that is ACTUALLY needed out of the home, when there is the need, already exists outside of the program industry, costs a hell of a lost less and isn't a freaking ponzi scheme. Oh, and insurance can cover it, imagine that!
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Here, perhaps, is a related concern... Did you know that there is nothing more "federal" about the Federal Reserve Bank than there is... blah, blah, blah
Oh Jesus please not on this forum. I used to type up bank documents for a living. The Federal Reserve is heavily integrated with federal agencies, particularly the IRS and the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN). I don't give a fuck what the hell happened on Jekyll Island. The Federal Reserve is nothing but another bureaucracy. Period.
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Housing collapse: lenders going bankrupt
http://www.economist.com/finance/displa ... id=8706627 (http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8706627)
American mortgages
Bleak houses
Feb 15th 2007 | NEW YORK
From The Economist print edition
America's riskiest mortgages are set to pop. Where will the shrapnel land?
LAST March, ResMAE, a mortgage lender catering to risky borrowers, cut the ribbon on its new headquarters in Brea, California. The sprawling, 135,000-square-foot building dwarfed the company's 458 local employees. But it fitted the firm's outsized ambitions. Less than a year later the company, rather than its ribbon, was facing the chop. This week it said it had filed for bankruptcy and was selling its assets for a diminutive $19m.
ResMAE is one of over 20 casualties among America's ?subprime? mortgage lenders, which serve borrowers with spotty credit histories at higher interest rates. This end of the market took on $605 billion of new mortgages last year, more than a fifth of the total. But as interest rates have climbed, these loans have soured and the shares of bigger subprime lenders, such as Countrywide Financial and IndyMac, have sagged.
Does the rot run deeper? That fear ran down a few spines on February 7th, when HSBC, Europe's biggest bank, revealed that bad loans at its American subprime mortgage division were 20% higher than expected. The same week New Century, the second-biggest such lender in America, projected a big drop in loans this year because of poor market conditions.
They are not the only ones exposed to America's home-loan blues. Citigroup peddles mortgages to risky borrowers through CitiFinancial, its consumer-finance arm. Subprime lenders have also been scooped up by investment banks, including Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch and Deutsche Bank, in recent months. Notably absent are Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, America's government-sponsored mortgage giants. Both were set up for people who dreamt of homeownership, but could not afford it. They also have the best data on borrowers, including those rejected for loans in the past. Perhaps they knew something others did not.
Indeed, the woes of the subprime lender are mostly self-inflicted. After interest rates turned up in 2004, mortgage-makers could no longer count on custom from homeowners looking to switch to new mortgages at cheaper rates. Saddled with expensive lending platforms, mortgage-writers were desperate for a new source of revenues. They found two: riskier borrowers and riskier products.
They loosened their lending standards as the demand for loans started to drop in 2004. They also resorted to ?alternative? products with enticing terms and off-putting names, such as ?negative-amortisation? loans (which set repayments so low that the debt gets bigger) or ?hybrid? adjustable-rate mortgages (with low teaser rates that jump after a few years). About 27% of all mortgages made in 2006 were of such non-traditional kinds, according to Inside Mortgage Finance, a newsletter.
Not content with these two moneypots, the more eager lenders began to combine them to make a third. They offered risky products to insecure borrowers. According to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), hybrid mortgages made up three-quarters of all new subprime loans in 2004 and 2005. The FDIC reckons many firms underwrote hybrid loans assuming that borrowers would refinance them quickly, before the low introductory rates jumped. But this was a reckless assumption when interest rates were rising and house prices softening.
An over-reliance on unseasoned risk models is also partly to blame for bad underwriting. Subprime and alternative mortgages belong to ?uncharted territory?, says Sheila Bair, head of the FDIC, making ?modelling credit performance exceptionally difficult?. The chief executive of HSBC, Michael Geoghegan, admitted as much in a conference call last week: ?You've got to have history for analytics...the fact of the matter is there [isn't history] for the adjustable-mortgage rate business when you've had 17 jumps in US interest rates.?
The pressure to lend did not only come from within. Even as mortgage-writers lured borrowers with soft terms, they were themselves tempted by the strong appetite of investors for riskier assets. Wall Street banks did a roaring trade packaging bunches of subprime loans into mortgage-backed securities, and selling them on to investors, greedy for yields (see chart).
The art of securitisation, as it is called, adds liquidity to the market and allows risks to be parcelled out to those most eager to bear them. Over the past few years, it has also freed up cash for more lending and earned banks pots of money. But it may have made a wobbly subprime market even wobblier. Banks are traditionally supposed to know a bit about the borrowers on their books. But in many cases, their loans did not stay on their books long enough for them to care. Mortgages were written for a fee, sold to investment banks for a fee, then packaged and floated for another fee. At each link in the chain, the fees mattered more than the quality of the loans, which could always be passed on. ?This was classic market failure,? says Anthony Sanders, a mortgage expert at Ohio State University's Fisher College of Business. ?The private sector wanted fees and got them, and they did not much care what happened afterwards.?
Some banks do get caught holding the live grenade. FDIC reckons that depository institutions hold $3 trillion of mortgages. Much of this is higher-quality stuff, but not all. And even banks eager to securitise their loans sometimes retain the ?residual??the most risky slice where losses hit first. CreditSights, a research firm, notes that Bear Stearns holds about $6.8 billion in residuals, although only a fraction is below investment grade. Banks that write mortgages are also contractually obliged to buy back securitised loans if their underwriting is shown to be shoddy or if the loans sour too quickly. That is what felled ResMAE and is hurting Accredited Home Lenders Holding, a San Diego lender.
Burnt palms
Diversified banks will not meet the same fate. Many big ones, notes Howard Mason of Sanford Bernstein, a research outfit, were careful not to mix risky products with risky borrowers. Wells Fargo, for instance, sells most of its alternative mortgages to ?prime? customers. Citigroup sells to subprime borrowers but does not offer alternative mortgages. However, the unregulated non-bank mortgage lenders, like New Century, could suffer.
Should loan losses climb, investors in mortgage-backed securities will also get burnt, especially those holding the riskier, higher-yielding bonds. Financial engineers worked their mysterious magic with these securities, turning the junkiest mortgages into high-grade, sometimes AAA-rated, securities. They could do this only with the blessing of credit-ratings agencies, which made a profitable business out of rating these securities. But critics say the agencies got complacent, and doubt the pooled loans were sufficiently diverse, or sliced up with sufficient art truly to have dispersed risk. One possible blind spot is that the dodgiest mortgages all behave similarly in times of stress. Another is that it is hard to avoid heavy exposure to mortgages from California, the biggest market in America, where alternative products were popular.
No one quite knows in whose hands these little bombs will ultimately explode. The hope is that the risks are widely and thinly spread. The fear is that they all sit in the lap of a few big hedge funds. But the real casualties may be homeowners, who often took out risky loans they could barely afford or did not understand. The FDIC has already tightened rules on underwriting negative-amortisation loans, and the Senate has begun to hold hearings on predatory mortgage lending. With Democrats now in charge of Congress, there is a fair chance the politicians will act. The Eliot Spitzer of the housing downturn may be about to start his charge.
Copyright © 2007 The Economist Newspaper and The Economist Group. All rights reserved.
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As for parents using their home equity to finance loony-tunes "therapy" programs, it is tragic. Part of me thinks they get what they deserve for being so stupid. But part of me understands that their desperation can cloud their judgement and contribute to irrational actions -- especially given the fact that many so-called health care professionals recommend these private correctional facilities, and some courts even support them, directly or indirectly.
Despite the problems of high-risk mortgages and the risk of homelessness for middle-class 'program parents' and their families, the real problem here is deception. It should not be legal to call oneself a "school" or a "treatment center" when the primary purpose of the institution is detention and corrections.
The success of this evil industry is built on the premise that desperate parents -- even well-educated ones -- can be deceived into handing over their children and lots of their money to complete strangers who have few credentials in any field other than Sales & Marketing. All it takes is the false promise of good things like "school" and "therapy" and the testimonial support of a few shrinks, social workers, brainwashed kids, brainwashed parents and clueless pinheads on national TV that sing the praises.
Like P.T. Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute."
But that doesn't make it right to take advantage of him -- or worse, to take advantage of his kid.
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The success of this evil industry is built on the premise that desperate parents -- even well-educated ones -- can be deceived into handing over their children and lots of their money to complete strangers who have few credentials in any field other than Sales & Marketing. All it takes is the false promise of good things like "school" and "therapy" and the testimonial support of a few shrinks, social workers, brainwashed kids, brainwashed parents and clueless pinheads on national TV that sing the praises.
Like P.T. Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute."
But that doesn't make it right to take advantage of him -- or worse, to take advantage of his kid.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Yeah right, the 'evil industry' taking advantage of poor ignorant parents. That's the biggest myth in this industry right there.
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I would tend to agree... fucked-up parents just wanna pass the buck,,
Ooooohhh!!!! Burn, bitch!!!!! :rofl:
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::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bigmouth:: ::argue:: ::both:: :rofl: :tup:
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can be deceived into handing over their children and lots of their money to complete strangers
Deceived into having their child kidnapped by thugs they let into the house? The parents and program are the true manipulators.
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Yeah right, the 'evil industry' taking advantage of poor ignorant parents. That's the biggest myth in this industry right there.
:wave: :tup:
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I would tend to agree... fucked-up parents just wanna pass the buck,,
Yup...
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Well, there are fucked up parents who just wanna pass the buck and then there are fucked up parents who are just clueless but actually fall for the "help your kid" sales pitch.
If the industry didn't need to rely on secrecy, then why don't they just tell it like it is on their websites and in their sales pitches? Abusive shitpits would get a lot less kids if they were truthful about being abusive shitpits.
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you are just saying, in a nicer way, that these parents are idiots. who believes a salesman is 'supposed' to be honest? an idiot, that's who. nah, these parents WANT to believe. they hope someonen else can clean up their mess! it all makes perfect sense.... to them.
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Fuckin' A-right!!! :tup:
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Ummmm.... excuse me, but be it fucked up parents, idiot parents, unconscious parents, or non-existent parents, who exactly most directly experiences these shit-pits and mind-rape mills? Right... the kids!
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What's your point? :lol:
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Sorry if I was unclear. The sentiment was expressed that these parents deserved being put out financially because they were idiots or what have you for even putting their kids in these institutions. My point was that THAT hardly matters, as it isn't the parents who have to experience these places. The kids do. I guess I just wanted to reiterate 70sPunkRebel's last paragraph:
The success of this evil industry is built on the premise that desperate parents -- even well-educated ones -- can be deceived into handing over their children and lots of their money to complete strangers who have few credentials in any field other than Sales & Marketing. All it takes is the false promise of good things like "school" and "therapy" and the testimonial support of a few shrinks, social workers, brainwashed kids, brainwashed parents and clueless pinheads on national TV that sing the praises.
Like P.T. Barnum said, "there's a sucker born every minute."
But that doesn't make it right to take advantage of him -- or worse, to take advantage of his kid.
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original poster here.
Just wanted to tell you that we are only in the 2nd inning (maybe 3rd) of the mess. The Freddie/Fannie bailout won't help the housing market. If you have a toxic loan, a "workout" is a suckers bet.
Subprime was in the "lower tier neighborhoods" the Alt-A option-ARM crisis will last through 2012. Housing won't bottom until well after that. Nothing the government can do to bail it out. House prices are still out of whack with incomes. Economic fundamentals are a bitch. No area is immune...you'll see.
Been away from Fornits for a long time so just checking in.
For further enlightenment I suggest reading Calculatedrisk.blogspot.com, GlobalEconomicAnalysis.blogspot.com or follow what Nouriel Roubini has to say on the RGE monitor.
Had you paid attention...you could have made LOTS of money shorting the market.
Great Depression II coming up.
Peace...I'm outta here.
Oh...and programmies....you can all burn in HELL! ::evil::
Sincerely...
OKB4RMA
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Please read...this includes everyone.
ok...I'm anti program...but that doesn't matter right now.
I have been away from fornits for the most part for almost a year.
My background...post program...is in Economics.
We are currently fucked...most of us.
Stop reading fornits...stop watching mainstream television...start looking at what is happening with the housing meltdown and the sub-prime lender meltdown that is currently snowballing at an alarming rate.
I could direct you to all kinds of economic literature that would show the seriousness of what has been discussed for the past few years during the global "Housing Bubble"...but if you would rather read about it in entertaining...albeit alarming...way...then go to
http://housingpanic.blogspot.com (http://housingpanic.blogspot.com)
Read all you want. You will then understand as the blogger is very educated in the topic on what he speaks...he cashed out at the peak in Phoenix and is now renting in London and travelling around the world studying it.
It is not a lib vs dem thing...and has jack shit to do with programs.
Right now the shit is hitting the fan and with the equity/speculative asset market bubble that we have created the "crash" will make the great depression look like a walk in the park.
It is nothing new...it is a cycle...nothing can be done...it has happened throughout time...all booms eventually bust.
I wish you all well...survivors, programmies and trolls alike.
Time to stop arguing about programs...the parents that have their kids there will most likely end up going bankrupt due to their exotic mortgage that they got or the cash out refinancing where people thought there house was little more than an ATM.
Study...learn how to prepare for an economic depression...and you will be better off in the long run.
Ya know. When I first read this in Feb 07, I thought it was an alarmist posting by a paranoid anon nut. LOL. Oh Irony. Props for the accurate prediction, though.
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Please read...this includes everyone.
ok...I'm anti program...but that doesn't matter right now.
I have been away from fornits for the most part for almost a year.
My background...post program...is in Economics.
We are currently fucked...most of us.
Stop reading fornits...stop watching mainstream television...start looking at what is happening with the housing meltdown and the sub-prime lender meltdown that is currently snowballing at an alarming rate.
I could direct you to all kinds of economic literature that would show the seriousness of what has been discussed for the past few years during the global "Housing Bubble"...but if you would rather read about it in entertaining...albeit alarming...way...then go to
http://housingpanic.blogspot.com (http://housingpanic.blogspot.com)
Read all you want. You will then understand as the blogger is very educated in the topic on what he speaks...he cashed out at the peak in Phoenix and is now renting in London and travelling around the world studying it.
It is not a lib vs dem thing...and has jack shit to do with programs.
Right now the shit is hitting the fan and with the equity/speculative asset market bubble that we have created the "crash" will make the great depression look like a walk in the park.
It is nothing new...it is a cycle...nothing can be done...it has happened throughout time...all booms eventually bust.
I wish you all well...survivors, programmies and trolls alike.
Time to stop arguing about programs...the parents that have their kids there will most likely end up going bankrupt due to their exotic mortgage that they got or the cash out refinancing where people thought there house was little more than an ATM.
Study...learn how to prepare for an economic depression...and you will be better off in the long run.
Ya know. When I first read this in Feb 07, I thought it was an alarmist posting by a paranoid anon nut. LOL. Oh Irony. Props for the accurate prediction, though.
It was inevitable. Corruption allowed subprime loans to be considered a reiable enough of an investment to be sold on wall street. Now the shit is hitting the fan, but the last thing we want is to bail out the banking industry for being greedy. It is the only way we'll see real regulation over these companites to sell loans to people that can't afford them. The wealthy know they can hold out their investment $ longer than the little gut and they are using this as a hostage situation, putting the more numerous small investors and homeowners in a position where, if they don't push for the bailout, they will be broke and/or foreclosed on. But it is really just a 'now or later' situation. Do you notice how there are so many more commercials, from energy companies, promoting alternative energy? That's because those energy companies, mostly oil, are putting some 'stock' in that Barrack and the dems will win. In short, passing the bail out is just going maintain the pattern of corruption on wall street and in congress. If we DON'T bail out wall street, America and it's working class will have to re-invest themselves in something tangeable and real. Investing in alternative energies could create millions of jobs with the right government plan. So NO BAILOUT! OBAMA! (like there's really a choice anyways. McCAin is a goner.) Hunker down, but it won't last forever. There's ton's of innovation in America that has been supressed by industry and politics that will be allowed into the marketplace once the money moving business (debt, credit industry) has now more room to grow.
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....NO more room to grow.
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Please read...this includes everyone.
ok...I'm anti program...but that doesn't matter right now.
I have been away from fornits for the most part for almost a year.
My background...post program...is in Economics.
We are currently fucked...most of us.
Stop reading fornits...stop watching mainstream television...start looking at what is happening with the housing meltdown and the sub-prime lender meltdown that is currently snowballing at an alarming rate.
I could direct you to all kinds of economic literature that would show the seriousness of what has been discussed for the past few years during the global "Housing Bubble"...but if you would rather read about it in entertaining...albeit alarming...way...then go to
http://housingpanic.blogspot.com (http://housingpanic.blogspot.com)
Read all you want. You will then understand as the blogger is very educated in the topic on what he speaks...he cashed out at the peak in Phoenix and is now renting in London and travelling around the world studying it.
It is not a lib vs dem thing...and has jack shit to do with programs.
Right now the shit is hitting the fan and with the equity/speculative asset market bubble that we have created the "crash" will make the great depression look like a walk in the park.
It is nothing new...it is a cycle...nothing can be done...it has happened throughout time...all booms eventually bust.
I wish you all well...survivors, programmies and trolls alike.
Time to stop arguing about programs...the parents that have their kids there will most likely end up going bankrupt due to their exotic mortgage that they got or the cash out refinancing where people thought there house was little more than an ATM.
Study...learn how to prepare for an economic depression...and you will be better off in the long run.
Ya know. When I first read this in Feb 07, I thought it was an alarmist posting by a paranoid anon nut. LOL. Oh Irony. Props for the accurate prediction, though.
It was inevitable. Corruption allowed subprime loans to be considered a reiable enough of an investment to be sold on wall street. Now the shit is hitting the fan, but the last thing we want is to bail out the banking industry for being greedy. It is the only way we'll see real regulation over these companites to sell loans to people that can't afford them. The wealthy know they can hold out their investment $ longer than the little gut and they are using this as a hostage situation, putting the more numerous small investors and homeowners in a position where, if they don't push for the bailout, they will be broke and/or foreclosed on. But it is really just a 'now or later' situation. Do you notice how there are so many more commercials, from energy companies, promoting alternative energy? That's because those energy companies, mostly oil, are putting some 'stock' in that Barrack and the dems will win. In short, passing the bail out is just going maintain the pattern of corruption on wall street and in congress. If we DON'T bail out wall street, America and it's working class will have to re-invest themselves in something tangeable and real. Investing in alternative energies could create millions of jobs with the right government plan. So NO BAILOUT! OBAMA! (like there's really a choice anyways. McCAin is a goner.) Hunker down, but it won't last forever. There's ton's of innovation in America that has been supressed by industry and politics that will be allowed into the marketplace once the money moving business (debt, credit industry) has now more room to grow.
omigod.
I also thought you were a paranoid nut.
You are clearly instead....a GENIUS. What do you do for a living (if I may ask) ? How old are you?
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Excellent foresight you had!! I think we all remember Barney Frank standing up and calling the Banking industry racists for not lending enough money to minorities and forcing congress to strong arm these banks to make questionable loans (subprime loans) and lower their standards so more people could experience the American dream…… where are these democrats now? They are trying to force the bill down the throats of the middle class and unfortunately they will succeed. Once again the Dems are trying to turn America into a socialist republic and have them start purchasing real-estate and owning our mortgages. Look what they did to social security! The government cant even effectively manage the voting system let alone our retirement and now they are getting their hands on our homes and land? Someday the people will wake up…….. watch the democrats will repackage the “bailout†and give it a prettier name (like the republicans do) like maybe “Recovery†package. Then everyone will feel warm and fuzzy again and sign the bill into law. Our new mortgage holder will be Obama!!
Aside from that this is one of the greatest weeks for opportunity to make the rich “Super Rich†(and push the middle class further down) there are so many bargains on wall street people are getting giddy trying to decide where to invest first. While the middle class is scrambling to save their 401ks and homes and congress takes a vacation the rich are going to gobble up a bigger share of wall street.
...
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I was not the original poster BTW.
Well Who, there is something more to all this. For the last twenty years the banking industry has invested in "real estate investment" seminars that trained the bottom level no capital investor to search out and buy out distressed property owners with the "No money down" method. This means you buy a property "subject to" the existing financing, whereby the buyer will assume the existing loan. There is more to the process, but the fact of the matter here is that these lending companies had come up with a way to stretch these bad assets twenty years beyond the point where they should have crashed by teaching the public to be predators in their own neighborhoods. These seminars exhibited many characteristics of LGAT's and intended to recruit attendees to work on their behalf. The worst part is IT WAS EFFECTIVE! The banks would have absorbed all the inventory from this flood of foreclosures 20 yrs ago if they hadn't created a loophole for cashless investors to be able to turn foreclosures into a money machine for them. Before now the 2 most important words in real estate were "Subject to", now its "got cash?"
And it's the Republicans who are to blame for herding the middle and lower class into this position where they need to vote for this bailout to survive. If anyone is to blame for America's entering into socialist territory it is the republicans, for dictating rules and then teaching people to profit by breaking them.
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Does it seem at all odd to anyone that this bullshit happened right before the election?
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I just returned from Nashville last night, and was finally able to watch the debate. I cannot tell you how frustrating it was for me to watch Obama, or should I say listen to Obama! It scares the hell out of me that we are going to possibly make this guy our next president. Are you kidding me???? This guy is just going to make everything worse. He has no idea what the hell he is doing. I've never seen anyone give such long responses to the questions that are asked of them, and still give no real clear answer. It is so frustrating, and completely annoying, I HAD to turn it off.
I'm not for the current bailout. Not the way it is currently being proposed. Let the chips fall where they may I say. There is a lesson to be learned. How can we really learn this lesson, if we are not made to feel it?
I don't mind things being tight for a while. If anything, it might encourage people to become more educated, and interested in how things really work. I don't know, it's just a thought.
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I personally refuse to vote for either of the political hacks. Neither Obama or McCain have what it takes to be a decent president. But then I felt the same way about Slick Willy and in the end he did ok.
I'd love to see legislation putting some sort of controls on the amount of money spent on campaigns. How many schools could have been built with the money these two motards have shat down the toilet so far?
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. Are you kidding me???? This guy is just going to make everything worse. He has no idea what the hell he is doing. I've never seen anyone give such long responses to the questions that are asked of them, and still give no real clear answer. It is so frustrating, and completely annoying, I HAD to turn it off.
Whereas McCain just avoids it alltogether and we won't even TALK about Palin. Holy christ, what a fucking moron she is and it's REALLY scary because McCain's health is so questionable.
I'm not for the current bailout. Not the way it is currently being proposed.
Me neither
How can we really learn this lesson, if we are not made to feel it?
Hmmmm. Where have I heard things like this before? Where oh where? ::)
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Holy christ, what a fucking moron she is
Hmmmm. Where have I heard things like this before? Where oh where? ::)
You heard people saying things like "what a fucking moron she is" in various programs, with which your soul is one. You can disagree with someone politically without calling them names, you know. But then, how would you get that special emotional thrill? Lemee guess your particular connection to programs ..(eyeroll)
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Hopefully the slagging economy will take a few programs down with it. Maybe parents will be forced to return to a more traditional community based treatment in which insurance is vital, hence obvious oversight of their (sometimes stupid) decisions.
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Holy christ, what a fucking moron she is
Hmmmm. Where have I heard things like this before? Where oh where? ::)
You heard people saying things like "what a fucking moron she is" in various programs, with which your soul is one. You can disagree with someone politically without calling them names, you know. But then, how would you get that special emotional thrill?
Sorry, when it comes to Palin that particular descriptive is necessary. The woman is a flaming idiot and a breath away from running the frigging country. Scary stuff.
Lemee guess your particular connection to programs ..(eyeroll)
Your point? ::)
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What they should do is give everyone in America who makes under a million a year one million dollars.
That expenditure would be considerably less than the proposed bailout.
A million dollars would enable the working middle class to afford their loans. The "economy would be stimulated"(the excuse for this bailout) and you wouldn't be lining the pockets of the greedy yacht owners who brought this crisis into being.
Obama should propose that the 700 billion be given directly to the citizenry, devided amongst us. he'd win handily. In would usher a Pax Americana.
I’m a genius!!!!!
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Holy christ, what a fucking moron she is
Hmmmm. Where have I heard things like this before? Where oh where? ::)
You heard people saying things like "what a fucking moron she is" in various programs, with which your soul is one. You can disagree with someone politically without calling them names, you know. But then, how would you get that special emotional thrill?
Sorry, when it comes to Palin that particular descriptive is necessary. The woman is a flaming idiot and a breath away from running the frigging country. Scary stuff.
Lemee guess your particular connection to programs ..(eyeroll)
Your point? ::)
Oops, I misread something you wrote. Yep. Palin is a moron
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Tina Fey as Sarah Palin comparison with the real deal. SNL barely had to change what the actual Palin said. In fact, some of it they didn't have to change at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN8IJc-o ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN8IJc-ojHM&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r36Xc0GG4iQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r36Xc0GG4iQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqdfzi1Ega0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqdfzi1Ega0)
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Palin is VPILF. :jerry:
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Do you vote according to what your dick tells you?
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Yes, the little head dictates (pardon the pun.)
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Do you vote according to what your dick tells you?
All politics aside, there's a certain bitchiness about her that just does it for me. :D
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Here's the "straight talk express" that you won't hear from any candidate. Lenders get their money from the government. How much money they get depends on whether the loans are "performing" or "non-performing". A non-performing loan is one where either the payments are being made late or not at all, which of course would enter the property into the first stage of foreclosure. When a bank holds a note (loan, mortgage) that is not performing their ability to aquire capital from the gov. goes down. When their borrowing power goes down they can't approve as many loans, less loans means they have to tighten their restrictions on who can get a loan and they make less $. Today there are about 1.5 million people that are in some phase of foreclosure at any given moment, and for the last 10-20 yrs it has been roughly 1 million (12-18 million homes a year, that's alot of homes.) So the last thing the bank ever wants is a foreclosure, they want the loans to keep performing so they can keep borrowing and increase business, and they DEFINITELY don't want to hold property. So what did they do 20 yrs ago to stop the increasing stockpile of homes they were absorbing? They satisfied their own greed by appealing to the greed in everyone else. They created a situation where the most profitable stage in the foreclosure process was no longer the actual moment when the home is foreclosed on at the ctiy courthouse, where investors can only buy with cash. They taught people people to seek out distressed owners before the foreclosure took place, and the best part here is you don't need all cash, you assume the already existing loan (if it's FHA / VA gov't loan from Fannie Mae or FreddieMac) or buy the property "subject to" the existing financing. First let's look at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They typically give loans to people in government services and what makes their loans special is that the mortgage is "assumable", meaning the property owner can sell their house directly to a buyer and the loan can be re-written in the new buyers name. The new buyer now holds the exact same mortgage without having to be approved by a bank or pay a re-financing fee, this is a perfect situation for an investor and therefore are targetted. So what happens is we have a program that is intended to help our army (or other gov't workers) but these gov't loans, with great terms, end up in the hands of investors. In fact this same loan will get passed from hand to hand through the years until finally real estate appreciation hits a roadblock. Years later many of these loans have been bought into legally and with no oversight, by people who could never afford them and were banking on the market appreciating. Now Freddie and Fannie, and the taxpayer of course, are paying for not regulating the terms of their loans by absorbing a flood of inventory and needing to get bailed out.
So what was the banking industry and wall street response to this 20 years ago? To do the exact same thing. Instead of absorbing more foreclosed homes they started teaching people to buy out distressed property before this happened, and instead of having a "non-performing" loan on their books they had a performing loan which justified borrowing more and then making more loans, keep in mind this is business and it is a legal requirement for them to make their stock holders the most $ they can, so it's really not that people are choosing to be corrupt but it is their resposibility under the law to take advantage of a loophole where they can.
How does this work? It's pretty simple, all it required was to expose the process the banks go through in doing business. Right now anyone who owns a home with a mortgage can sell it legally without needing to consult the bank. In fact on the HUD closing documents there is a box you check if you are buying a property "subject to" the existing financing. The only difference between a bank loan and a gov't loan is that on a bank loan there is a "due on sale" clause giving the bank the right to call the loan due if the property is sold. But guess what, the bank isn't going to do anything. All they are concerned with is that the payments keep coming so the loans keep performing and they can keep borrowing so they can MAKE MORE LOANS. And what's more is that, since these loans are now performing, the lender needs to loosen the standards on who can be approved for a loan to continue growing. This lead to even more people being approved that could not afford it, which meant more foreclosures, which meant more investors, which meant the same bad loan getting sold over and over until the artificially inflated home values and the owners who couldn't afford them hit the ceiling and now this bubble is exploding.
This is why we are in the dilemma we're in now. And that's just the housing mess, the debt/credit industry is a whole nother story. In short the super rich are squeezing every last dime, and then some once they squeeze out all the credit, out of people. And where is all that money getting re-invested? China, a country just starting to boom. This bail out is not going to solve this problem, only prolong it and keep peoples jobs and investments stuck in the same system of feeding on failure. Although it is a bad situation It won't be the end of everything. It might surprise some of you to know Mexicans are buying up U.S. property ever increasingly. America's economy is in a downturn and the dollar is falling in value. This country is already verging on being the worlds Wal-Mart, pretty soon foreigners will be flocking to the U.S. because, by comparison to what they are paying, property here is dirt cheap. Neither presidential candidate is going to admit they can't solve this problem. Bottom line is the majoity of people in this country are living in their investments and they already owe more than it is worth. If things keep progressing this way we will convert from being a nation of owners to a nation of renters and the rent check will be going to foreign investors that don't even live in this country.
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If things keep progressing this way we will convert from being a nation of owners to a nation of renters and the rent check will be going to foreign investors that don't even live in this country.
Where's that damn :shudder: emoticon when you need it?!?
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Here's the "straight talk express" that you won't hear from any candidate. Lenders get their money from the government. How much money they get depends on whether the loans are "performing" or "non-performing". A non-performing loan is one where either the payments are being made late or not at all, which of course would enter the property into the first stage of foreclosure. When a bank holds a note (loan, mortgage) that is not performing their ability to aquire capital from the gov. goes down. When their borrowing power goes down they can't approve as many loans, less loans means they have to tighten their restrictions on who can get a loan and they make less $. Today there are about 1.5 million people that are in some phase of foreclosure at any given moment, and for the last 10-20 yrs it has been roughly 1 million (12-18 million homes a year, that's alot of homes.) So the last thing the bank ever wants is a foreclosure, they want the loans to keep performing so they can keep borrowing and increase business, and they DEFINITELY don't want to hold property. So what did they do 20 yrs ago to stop the increasing stockpile of homes they were absorbing? They satisfied their own greed by appealing to the greed in everyone else. They created a situation where the most profitable stage in the foreclosure process was no longer the actual moment when the home is foreclosed on at the ctiy courthouse, where investors can only buy with cash. They taught people people to seek out distressed owners before the foreclosure took place, and the best part here is you don't need all cash, you assume the already existing loan (if it's FHA / VA gov't loan from Fannie Mae or FreddieMac) or buy the property "subject to" the existing financing. First let's look at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They typically give loans to people in government services and what makes their loans special is that the mortgage is "assumable", meaning the property owner can sell their house directly to a buyer and the loan can be re-written in the new buyers name. The new buyer now holds the exact same mortgage without having to be approved by a bank or pay a re-financing fee, this is a perfect situation for an investor and therefore are targetted. So what happens is we have a program that is intended to help our army (or other gov't workers) but these gov't loans, with great terms, end up in the hands of investors. In fact this same loan will get passed from hand to hand through the years until finally real estate appreciation hits a roadblock. Years later many of these loans have been bought into legally and with no oversight, by people who could never afford them and were banking on the market appreciating. Now Freddie and Fannie, and the taxpayer of course, are paying for not regulating the terms of their loans by absorbing a flood of inventory and needing to get bailed out.
So what was the banking industry and wall street response to this 20 years ago? To do the exact same thing. Instead of absorbing more foreclosed homes they started teaching people to buy out distressed property before this happened, and instead of having a "non-performing" loan on their books they had a performing loan which justified borrowing more and then making more loans, keep in mind this is business and it is a legal requirement for them to make their stock holders the most $ they can, so it's really not that people are choosing to be corrupt but it is their resposibility under the law to take advantage of a loophole where they can.
How does this work? It's pretty simple, all it required was to expose the process the banks go through in doing business. Right now anyone who owns a home with a mortgage can sell it legally without needing to consult the bank. In fact on the HUD closing documents there is a box you check if you are buying a property "subject to" the existing financing. The only difference between a bank loan and a gov't loan is that on a bank loan there is a "due on sale" clause giving the bank the right to call the loan due if the property is sold. But guess what, the bank isn't going to do anything. All they are concerned with is that the payments keep coming so the loans keep performing and they can keep borrowing so they can MAKE MORE LOANS. And what's more is that, since these loans are now performing, the lender needs to loosen the standards on who can be approved for a loan to continue growing. This lead to even more people being approved that could not afford it, which meant more foreclosures, which meant more investors, which meant the same bad loan getting sold over and over until the artificially inflated home values and the owners who couldn't afford them hit the ceiling and now this bubble is exploding.
This is why we are in the dilemma we're in now. And that's just the housing mess, the debt/credit industry is a whole nother story. In short the super rich are squeezing every last dime, and then some once they squeeze out all the credit, out of people. And where is all that money getting re-invested? China, a country just starting to boom. This bail out is not going to solve this problem, only prolong it and keep peoples jobs and investments stuck in the same system of feeding on failure. Although it is a bad situation It won't be the end of everything. It might surprise some of you to know Mexicans are buying up U.S. property ever increasingly. America's economy is in a downturn and the dollar is falling in value. This country is already verging on being the worlds Wal-Mart, pretty soon foreigners will be flocking to the U.S. because, by comparison to what they are paying, property here is dirt cheap. Neither presidential candidate is going to admit they can't solve this problem. Bottom line is the majoity of people in this country are living in their investments and they already owe more than it is worth. If things keep progressing this way we will convert from being a nation of owners to a nation of renters and the rent check will be going to foreign investors that don't even live in this country.
What do you do for a living and what program were you in? Just curious.
-
Here's the "straight talk express" that you won't hear from any candidate. Lenders get their money from the government. How much money they get depends on whether the loans are "performing" or "non-performing". A non-performing loan is one where either the payments are being made late or not at all, which of course would enter the property into the first stage of foreclosure. When a bank holds a note (loan, mortgage) that is not performing their ability to aquire capital from the gov. goes down. When their borrowing power goes down they can't approve as many loans, less loans means they have to tighten their restrictions on who can get a loan and they make less $. Today there are about 1.5 million people that are in some phase of foreclosure at any given moment, and for the last 10-20 yrs it has been roughly 1 million (12-18 million homes a year, that's alot of homes.) So the last thing the bank ever wants is a foreclosure, they want the loans to keep performing so they can keep borrowing and increase business, and they DEFINITELY don't want to hold property. So what did they do 20 yrs ago to stop the increasing stockpile of homes they were absorbing? They satisfied their own greed by appealing to the greed in everyone else. They created a situation where the most profitable stage in the foreclosure process was no longer the actual moment when the home is foreclosed on at the ctiy courthouse, where investors can only buy with cash. They taught people people to seek out distressed owners before the foreclosure took place, and the best part here is you don't need all cash, you assume the already existing loan (if it's FHA / VA gov't loan from Fannie Mae or FreddieMac) or buy the property "subject to" the existing financing. First let's look at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They typically give loans to people in government services and what makes their loans special is that the mortgage is "assumable", meaning the property owner can sell their house directly to a buyer and the loan can be re-written in the new buyers name. The new buyer now holds the exact same mortgage without having to be approved by a bank or pay a re-financing fee, this is a perfect situation for an investor and therefore are targetted. So what happens is we have a program that is intended to help our army (or other gov't workers) but these gov't loans, with great terms, end up in the hands of investors. In fact this same loan will get passed from hand to hand through the years until finally real estate appreciation hits a roadblock. Years later many of these loans have been bought into legally and with no oversight, by people who could never afford them and were banking on the market appreciating. Now Freddie and Fannie, and the taxpayer of course, are paying for not regulating the terms of their loans by absorbing a flood of inventory and needing to get bailed out.
So what was the banking industry and wall street response to this 20 years ago? To do the exact same thing. Instead of absorbing more foreclosed homes they started teaching people to buy out distressed property before this happened, and instead of having a "non-performing" loan on their books they had a performing loan which justified borrowing more and then making more loans, keep in mind this is business and it is a legal requirement for them to make their stock holders the most $ they can, so it's really not that people are choosing to be corrupt but it is their resposibility under the law to take advantage of a loophole where they can.
How does this work? It's pretty simple, all it required was to expose the process the banks go through in doing business. Right now anyone who owns a home with a mortgage can sell it legally without needing to consult the bank. In fact on the HUD closing documents there is a box you check if you are buying a property "subject to" the existing financing. The only difference between a bank loan and a gov't loan is that on a bank loan there is a "due on sale" clause giving the bank the right to call the loan due if the property is sold. But guess what, the bank isn't going to do anything. All they are concerned with is that the payments keep coming so the loans keep performing and they can keep borrowing so they can MAKE MORE LOANS. And what's more is that, since these loans are now performing, the lender needs to loosen the standards on who can be approved for a loan to continue growing. This lead to even more people being approved that could not afford it, which meant more foreclosures, which meant more investors, which meant the same bad loan getting sold over and over until the artificially inflated home values and the owners who couldn't afford them hit the ceiling and now this bubble is exploding.
This is why we are in the dilemma we're in now. And that's just the housing mess, the debt/credit industry is a whole nother story. In short the super rich are squeezing every last dime, and then some once they squeeze out all the credit, out of people. And where is all that money getting re-invested? China, a country just starting to boom. This bail out is not going to solve this problem, only prolong it and keep peoples jobs and investments stuck in the same system of feeding on failure. Although it is a bad situation It won't be the end of everything. It might surprise some of you to know Mexicans are buying up U.S. property ever increasingly. America's economy is in a downturn and the dollar is falling in value. This country is already verging on being the worlds Wal-Mart, pretty soon foreigners will be flocking to the U.S. because, by comparison to what they are paying, property here is dirt cheap. Neither presidential candidate is going to admit they can't solve this problem. Bottom line is the majoity of people in this country are living in their investments and they already owe more than it is worth. If things keep progressing this way we will convert from being a nation of owners to a nation of renters and the rent check will be going to foreign investors that don't even live in this country.
What do you do for a living and what program were you in? Just curious(and impressed).
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weird double post.
Also, this place is Dead with a capitol D. A Tad Sad
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W5IAPK0hbU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W5IAPK0hbU)
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Palin is such an embarrasment I'm starting to believe the Reps. chose her to throw the election.
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I (Froderik) am the real father of Sarah Palin's most recent child. She and I had an erotic relationship off and on for the past 8 years. We would meet whenever she was in Washington at a very posh hotel. We made hot monkey love together, we did the nasty all night long. Our sexual encounters were the stuff of legends because nothing was off limits. Sarah Palin and I engaged in the following: sadomasochistic bondage, whipped cream and other delights, swinging naked from chandeliers, bizarre role playing (with and without midgets), pagan sexual rituals, demon sex, casual sex, drug induced sex and so much more. Sarah and I bonded with one another; we were crazy about each other! Yes we had a child and we named it Che Gookin. Unfortunately her lawyer later changed his name to Squat Toilet. Anyway, it will take years of court battles to reclaim my child and the money but I will prevail one day. Sarah Palin, I miss you and the good times we had together, all the drugs we did together. Sarah, I wish you were here so I could cut your head off with an axe just like you always wanted me to. Me love you long time. I will never forget you. XXX
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Here's one of the McCain/Palin base that Caribou Barbie appeals to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHfXbRsav4Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHfXbRsav4Q)
::OMG::
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I (Froderik) am the real father of Sarah Palin's most recent child. She and I had an erotic relationship off and on for the past 8 years. We would meet whenever she was in Washington at a very posh hotel. We made hot monkey love together, we did the nasty all night long. Our sexual encounters were the stuff of legends because nothing was off limits. Sarah Palin and I engaged in the following: sadomasochistic bondage, whipped cream and other delights, swinging naked from chandeliers, bizarre role playing (with and without midgets), pagan sexual rituals, demon sex, casual sex, drug induced sex and so much more. Sarah and I bonded with one another; we were crazy about each other! Yes we had a child and we named it Che Gookin. Unfortunately her lawyer later changed his name to Squat Toilet. Anyway, it will take years of court battles to reclaim my child and the money but I will prevail one day. Sarah Palin, I miss you and the good times we had together, all the drugs we did together. Sarah, I wish you were here so I could cut your head off with an axe just like you always wanted me to. Me love you long time. I will never forget you. XXX
Well, that explains why the kid is retarded.
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:D :ftard:
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Here's one of the McCain/Palin base that Caribou Barbie appeals to.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHfXbRsav4Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHfXbRsav4Q)
::OMG::
Jesus Christ, just kill me now.
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Palin is such an embarrasment I'm starting to believe the Reps. chose her to throw the election.
Exactly that. Harriet Miers all over again.
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Holy inbred Jed batman.
Can you imagine the 'after party' with that crew?
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Holy inbred Jed batman.
Can you imagine the 'after party' with that crew?
::puke::
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McCain wants to be president. Palin was his choice...I'm not sure how you figure this choice to mean that the repubs are throwing the election....?
I mean, there would be more obvious ways to do that...like run another candidate against mccain and split the vote, get their talking heads to attack mccain instead of obama.
the sad thing is, while we see Palin as a moro, the base repub "base" is energized by her..and her idiocy. Doncha know, goshdarn it NO ABORTION, gee whiz, you betcha JESUS. Freedom, eternal war we will win be triumphant....people find this apealing, god knows how.
cry. As usual, the dems don't hit hard enough, pull punches...don't fight back against slander..the media is a corporate machine that doesn't report evenly...
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One has to be a lowbrow, a bit of a murderer, to be a politician, ready and willing to see people sacrificed, slaughtered, for the sake of an idea, whether a good one or a bad one.
Whatever needs to be maintained through force is doomed.
We have two American flags always: one for the rich and one for the poor. When the rich fly the flag it means that things are under control; when the poor fly the flag it means danger, revolution and anarchy.
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Ya you are right, even though I don't at all get how in hell anyone could consider her as a vp candidate somehow I trick myself into thinking everyone else will figure the same. It was a bit of sarcasm on my part to say she was chosen to throw the election, but I don't want to imply my guard is down. She is very scary and should be taken seriously... doggonit.
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One has to be a lowbrow, a bit of a murderer, to be a politician, ready and willing to see people sacrificed, slaughtered, for the sake of an idea, whether a good one or a bad one.
Whatever needs to be maintained through force is doomed.
We have two American flags always: one for the rich and one for the poor. When the rich fly the flag it means that things are under control; when the poor fly the flag it means danger, revolution and anarchy.
Shit& Fan. Froderick. Such geniuses at fornits. I am so impressed by all of you. :) So when are you going to save us? :)
regards,
Rapunzel
your constant anon
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Here we go. McCain is trying to bash the Dems. For propping up Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae when he won’t admit the Reps. Majority support of it either. But, again, the Wall St. Republicans responded to the competition that Fannie and Freddie brought by copying their model. Selling homes “subject to†the existing financing that THEY PROVIDED, and the reason sub-prime was ever considered as a reliable enough investment to be sold as a bundled stock on wall st. is because they themselves created a business environment that they would eventually have to compete against. They broke their own rules and won’t admit that that is the reason we are in this mess. Obama isn’t going to admit this either but he is by far the lesser of two evils.
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I was saying before that this debacle was probably orchestrated as a political tactic.
Sorry, but neither one of them will get my vote.
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I was saying before that this debacle was probably orchestrated as a political tactic.
Sorry, but neither one of them will get my vote.
Yeah, that'll show 'em!
::)
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Like anything anyone does WILL show them. ::) ::)
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I was saying before that this debacle was probably orchestrated as a political tactic.
//bump\
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I was saying before that this debacle was probably orchestrated as a political tactic.
//bump\
You should probably get yourself a new tinfoil hat.
;D
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I was saying before that this debacle was probably orchestrated as a political tactic.
//bump\
You should probably get yourself a new tinfoil hat.
;D
Uh huh, yeah. Can I borrow yours, ya freak? :D :P
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You should probably get yourself a new tinfoil hat.
;D
Uh huh, yeah. Can I borrow yours, ya freak? :D :P
:rasta: ;D
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OK, I guess I'll have to be the one to say it..........the whole Wall Street/financial meltdown is because of the JEWS.............
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If you hate jews go fuck mel gibson. There a tons of reasons we're in the shitter. Trust me, you don't have enough fingers to point at them all.
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Trust me, you don't have enough fingers to point at them all.
But if I did, they'd be pointing at a bunch of JEWS!!!!!
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Sieg heil, mein Führer!
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Original Poster here.
Y'all having fun yet?
It's not over by a longshot. NOT EVEN CLOSE
Why do you think programs are shutting down now?
Funny to see that many of you though I was an alarmist nut.
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Funny to see that many of you though I was an alarmist nut.
Yup. Sorry bout that. You were right, we were wrong, and I have no doubt that it'll get worse as you say. My dad is saying the same thing now.
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I believe there is a connection between TBS's and the meltdown.
The connection will become more obvious to those of us who attended programs within the next two years.
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I believe there is a connection between TBS's and the meltdown.
The connection will become more obvious to those of us who attended programs within the next two years.
OK. I'm intrigued. Go on. You were right before. I want to hear your theory.
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Remember the build you up and then break you down aspect of the programs?...where all of the sudden you felt like the rug was pulled out from under your feet?
Do you remember feeling "dependent" on the program to help you? How "big brotherish" it was?
Remember feeling like a slave?
Do you remember how they tried to break you away from your biological family? Watch divorce statistics go through the roof due to financial hardship.
It's gonna be a long process.
People felt like they were "on top of the world" during the bubble. The HELOC money was flowing freely. As soon as it was turned off...people will become desperate...and turn towards "big brother" for help...not realizing that the help ISN'T what they want.
Think of mortgage "work-outs". They don't lower principal...just extend the bullshit turning you into a slave. An original purchase money loan is non-recourse in many states (meaning the bank/gov) can't come after you for the difference. As soon as people take the bait, the loan (which will fail anyways) turns into a recourse loan thereby making a "debt-slave" out of the owner for life.
All along we will be pumped full of "feel-good" bullshit. Hope & Change? Green Shoots? Only to be sucker punched later on.
Think of the fact that many of the schools had the students overly medicated...(we didn't have meds in the early 80's...just hard labor)...in order to turn us into complacent "sheeple".
Now look at nationalized healthcare. Look how much mental health was part of it (Hillary Clinton) Look at the stock price of Vanda Pharmaceuticals.(ticker=VNDA) look at a 6 month chart and see what happened to it after they approved their latest "head med". People will feel so desparate...and dare I say...like they are going CRAZY...that they will be turning to medication. (my Pdoc has confirmed that this is happening)....if they don't turn to meds...it will be some sort of rehashed "program" that people are turning to in hoardes these days. i.e. "The Forum".
BTW...if I mention a politician...it is in a non-partisan way...they are two sides of the same coin.
I could go on and on but it's really complex.
Just keep your ear to the ground and your eyes open. You'll start to hear things that sound eeerily familiar to your TBS.
It was all planned. Read CCM's previous statements about 2/28's with 3 year pre-payment penalties. You can't pay after 2 years, but you can't sell your house either.
The optionARMs will be coming in full force over the next couple years.
Best of luck...It's a "you can run but you can't hide" situation.
:cheers:
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That is very scary – not conveyed as a disingenuous response.
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I foresee the US (and thus the world's) economy being destroyed. This will bring about a willingness to accept alternatives already being discussed, but up to now considered unthinkable: a one world currency, controlled by a world government agency. The dollar will be valued only as toilet paper. Cash will become illegal. Gold, silver and other forms of metal wealth will be confiscated. So will guns. A few sheepel will bleet uncomfortably as the constitution is ignored and then out right overturned. It will be sold the the vast majority as an absolute necessity to keep any semblance of society functioning.
There will be a war in the middle east which will be very frightening to the whole world. A peace agreement will be made by a very charismatic leader who will seem to be genius in every way. A treaty will be signed allowing the rebuilding the the Temple in Jerusalem.
The world will be full of delighted people saying Peace, Peace - at last peace. They will be so impressed and greatful they will actually worship this leader. When he enters the Temple and explains he is in fact 'god' most will accept this. Those who do not will be considered less than human (or at least a hindrance to the development of a more highly evolved and enlightened human) and thus will be marked for extermination.
This is what I think is happening.
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I foresee the US (and thus the world's) economy being destroyed. This will bring about a willingness to accept alternatives already being discussed, but up to now considered unthinkable: a one world currency, controlled by a world government agency. The dollar will be valued only as toilet paper. Cash will become illegal. Gold, silver and other forms of metal wealth will be confiscated. So will guns. A few sheepel will bleet uncomfortably as the constitution is ignored and then out right overturned. It will be sold the the vast majority as an absolute necessity to keep any semblance of society functioning.
There will be a war in the middle east which will be very frightening to the whole world. A peace agreement will be made by a very charismatic leader who will seem to be genius in every way. A treaty will be signed allowing the rebuilding the the Temple in Jerusalem.
The world will be full of delighted people saying Peace, Peace - at last peace. They will be so impressed and greatful they will actually worship this leader. When he enters the Temple and explains he is in fact 'god' most will accept this. Those who do not will be considered less than human (or at least a hindrance to the development of a more highly evolved and enlightened human) and thus will be marked for extermination.
This is what I think is happening.
What you describe is certainly possible. Charismatic cult leaders can do such things. I don't, however, agree it would be the end of the world. Most of that happened before with Hitler and people thought he was... Turns out they were wrong, as you might be. I'm pretty sure if I read the thing correctly it says that nobody knows when it's supposed to happen. Sure there are signs that people are supposed to look for, but those signs have come and gone many times before.
One thing is for sure, if the govt tears up the constitution and/or sovereignty, they will have one hell of a problem with resistance, not only among the populace but among their military sympathizing with the populace. People won't just give up their guns. For that reason, I believe the US is relatively safe from what you describe. And not everybody who has guns registers them ;)... Hell. I wouldn't be surprised if when somebody tried to take away gun ownership across the country they would all be reported "stolen" *wink wink* the next day.
I just see too many obstacles to what you describe. Maybe it's possible and most people would lie down and take it... not resisting... but i'd like to think US citizens are more stubborn, resistant, and resilient than that.
A movie I recommend you see: Defiance (http://http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount_vantage/defiance/)
Learn from history. They survived because they resisted. What if they all had done that?
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Hitler was no fluke.
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Hitler was no fluke.
Nope. He was a skilled, sociopathic, cult leader who managed to convince an other wise rational (yet desperate and emotional) country that he was infallable and the jews were responsible for everything that was wrong. It's happened before him, and in all likelyhood, it will happen again. It's just a question of when and on how large a scale. If the whole world becomes as desperate (or more) as Germany was prior to WWII, and such a charismatic leader arises, such a scenario is possible. If such a charismatic leader comes to power, he's going to need a scapegoat (or scapegoats) to rally the people.
It's like KMFDM Says:
-- divided and conquered
-- gripped by fear
-- wishful thinking that it can't happen here
-- it's well underways but nobody knows
-- a repeat of history
-- that's how it goes
-- Tell the people that they're under attack
-- by man eating foes from Mars or Iraq
-- mobilize outrage
-- send in the troops
-- strike to pre-empt
I wouldn't call it plausible as this is highly speculative, but it's possible. Almost anything is.
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If you listen really, really closely, you can hear the Illuminati facepalming in the background...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLsONa3gKIQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLsONa3gKIQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdHyaDdl9s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdHyaDdl9s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO6qrtST ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO6qrtSTkew&feature=related)
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If your looking for a good conspiracy theory about the TTI I think this is pretty good.
http://www.fhu.com/brainwashing_book.html (http://www.fhu.com/brainwashing_book.html)
The text in the book in general is from the Communist Manual of Instructions of Psychopolitical Warfare, but I think you will find the connections…
B R A I N WA S H I N G
A Synthesis of the Russian Textbook on Psychopolitics.
(otherwise known as the brainwashing manual)
*excerpts*
psychopolitical operatives should at all times be alert to the
opportunity to organize mental health clubs or groups "for the
betterment of the community." By thus inviting the cooperation
of the population as a whole in mental health programs, properly
guided, can bring enough legislative pressure on the government
to secure the position of the psychopolitical operative, and to obtain
for him government grants and facilities, thus bringing a government
to finance its own downfall.
Mental health organizations must carefully delete from their ranks
anyone actually proficient in the handling or treatment of mental
health.
Sickness could be considered to be a disloyalty to the remaining
organisms on the part on one organism. This disloyalty, becoming
apparent, brings about a revolt of some part of the anatomy against
the remaining whole, and thus we have, in effect, an internal revolution.
In order to induce a deep state of hypnosis in an individual, a
group, or a population, an element of terror must always be present
on the part of those who would govern. The psychiatrist is aptly
suited to this role, for his brutalities are committed in the name of science
and are inexplicably complex, and entirely out of view of the
human understanding. A sufficient popular terror of the psychiatrist
will, in itself, bring about insanity on the part of many individuals.
A psychopolitical operative should at all times insist that these treatments
are therapeutic and necessary. He can, in all of his literature
and his books, list large numbers of pretended cures by these means.
But these "cures" need not actually produce any recovery from a state
of disturbance. As long as the psychopolitical operative or his dupes
are the only authorities as to the difference between sanity and insanity,
their word as to the therapeutic value of such treatment will be
the final word. No layman would dare venture to pronounce judgment
upon the state of sanity of an individual whom the psychiatrist
has already declared insane. The individual, himself, is unable to
complain, and his family, as will be covered later, is already discredited
by the occurrence of insanity in their midst. There must be no
other adjudicators of insanity; otherwise it could be disclosed that the brutalities practiced in the name of treatment are not therapeutic.
A psychopolitical operative has no interest in "therapeutic means"
or "cures". The greater the number of insane in the country where he
is operating, the larger the number of the populace coming under his
view, the greater will become his facilities. Because the problem is
a p p a rently mounting to uncontrollable heights, he can operate
increasingly in an atmosphere of emergency, which again excuses his
use of such treatments as electric shock, the prefrontal lobotomy,
transorbital leucotomy, and other operations long since practiced in
Russia on political prisoners.
Furthermore, and much more important, the
field of the mind must be sufficiently dominated by the psychopolitical
operative, so that wherever tenets of the mind are taught they
will be hypnotically believed. The psychopolitical operative, having
under his control all psychology classes in an area, can thus bring
about a complete reformation of the future leaders of a country
through their educational processes, and so prepare them for communism.
man is a stimulus-response animal. His entire reasoning
capabilities, even his ethics and morals, depend upon stimulus-
response machinery. This has long been demonstrated
by such Russians as Pavlov, and the principles have long been
used in handling the recalcitrant, in training children, and in bringing
about a state of optimum behavior on the part of a population.
As an example of this, if an individual is beaten and is told during
the entirety of the beating that he must obey certain officials, he will,
in the future, feel the beginnings of the pain the moment he begins to
disobey. If the individual himself
was injured during that moment, the injury itself will remanifest
when called upon to respond by an exterior command source.
So long as the organism obeys the stimulus whenever it is restimulated
in the future, it does not suffer from the pain of the stimulus.
But should it disobey the command content of the stimulus, the stimulus
reacts to punish the individual. Thus, we have an optimum circumstance,
and one of the basic principles of Psychopolitics. A sufficiently
installed stimulus will thereafter remain as a police mechanism
within the individual to cause him to follow the commands and
directions given to him.
Refusal to let them sleep over many days, or
denying them adequate food, produces an optimum state for the
receipt of a stimulus. If the person is then given an electrical shock,
and is told while the shock is in action that he must obey and do certain
things, he has no choice but to do them, or to reexperience,
because of his mental image picture of it, the electric shock. This
highly scientific and intensely workable mechanism cannot be overestimated
in the practice of psychopolitics.
The psychopolitical operative in training should be thoroughly
versed in the subject of hypnotism and post-hypnotic suggestion.
Having mastered these details fully, he should, by practicing upon
criminals and prisoners, or inmates available to him, produce the
hypnotic trance by drugs, and drive home post-hypnotic suggestions
by pain administered to the drugged person. He should then study
the reactions of the person when "awakened", and should give him
the stimulus-response signal which would throw into action the
commands given while the subject was in a drugged state of duress.
**
…just some of it, the rest is just as interesting… fiction or not it has a familiar feel don’t you think?
I think as far as conspiracy theories concerning the TTI this document could have been influential in how they were formulated. It originally came from Russia, but apparently L. Ron Hubbard (scientology) claimed to have obtained it or written it in the 60’s. Anyways the totalian structure of programs may have roots here and there is sufficient enough belief (proof being the success of the TTI to continue convincing families to send away their kids) within the general population for this belief system to spiral out into general society and eventually, as said in the doc., bring about their countries’ own downfall.
…I think there’s some plausibility in it.
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Although I can't really comment on the "Communist Manual of Instructions of Psychopolitical Warfare" (should be interesting reading), you might want to keep in mind that the guy who runs that fhu.com site, Roy Masters, has a bit of a vested interest in making sure you hate the Commies.
In fact, he has bit of a vested interest in helping you see the error of your way of life and thinking, all of which can be corrected by listening to his records, reading his books, coming to his lectures, or tuning in to his conservative talk radio show on KTYM in Los Angeles. He even has a school which evolved out of a clique of homeschoolers, Brighton Academy (http://http://www.brightonacademy.org/), and which may or may not be a "kinder, gentler program" (probably not, but I have a sensitive stomach).
Hint: the Foundation of Human Understanding used to be called the Institute of Hypnosis.
This one-time diamond cutter/gem merchant from the UK traveled to South Africa, studied hypnosis and the techniques of witch doctors, emigrated to the United States, became a Christian minister, learned meditation, and mixed up a batch of all of the above to formulate the Roy Masters brand of truth: "How Your Mind Can Keep You Well - Be Still And Know."
Just something to keep in mind...
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Btw, anyone who still thinks this is about conflict between the Communists and the Capitalists is still living in the Dark Ages. :D
(Sorry ... REALLY bad joke, that!)
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^
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OP here.
Still not over.
Not even close.
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so what is your take? I keep hearing that commericial re is next and that we are in for a bigger meltdown yet the market keeps going up. One day you hear housing is recovering, next day its still bad. The Dow, S&P and Nasquack have broken intermediate resistance levels. Lots of conflicting info regarding jobs. We are being played with but by whom? What is your opinion...you were certainly right about real estate.
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Housing is not recovering.
I know many people who haven't paid their mortgage in over a year yet no NOD has been filed. The only reason that they will claim that housing is recovering is to get knife catchers. Banks are sitting on TONS of empty homes.
The option-ARMs have still not recast. read that again...reCAST...not reset. There is a difference. The banks were writing 2.7 Million dollar option ARMs here in my neighborhood.
Commercial: It's easier to play extend and pretend CRE than residential...yet look what they've done for residential.
Stock Market: Hot money chasing returns. Company earnings reports sound better because layoffs save money.
Student Loans: Bank on them failing. Why do you think that you can't BK out of student debt?
It's gonna be a long drawn out process.
People are being enslaved...they just don't know it yet. They're too stupid. People lapped up the 8k tax credit and the Cash-For-Clunkers like the fools I knew they would.
Idiots also fell for the "low interest rates".
Smart money buys cheap assets with expensive money.
Dumb money buys expensive assets with cheap (low interest rates) money.
Invest accordingly.
And no...don't be a perma bear or a perma bull.
full disclosure.
I sold my house in 05.
Long Gold (physical) since 06.
Shorted stocks in Aug '08 via Jan '09 Put options.
Long stocks since Feb '09.
Never selling my gold.
DYODD
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Oh great, another gold schmuck.
Store it somewhere real secure and pack it up your ass, would you?
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Giving your financial plan after it happened is akin to telling us your lottery numbers after they had already been chosen. In other words, people who do this are for the most part full of crap. But hey, perhaps this financial wizard does know the future and decided fornits of all places is the most effective place to disseminate it. Perhaps.
My biggest problem the last week was finding parking spaces around my work, and grocery store, and having to wait in line forever at the post office. People were out spending a ton of money on useless crap to give to people who don't want it, like usual. The sky has not fallen, things are not that bad. Sure, if you are a fool who made bad investments and think bubbles last forever you might be bitter. But almost everyone I've talked to is doing fine, even if they don't have enough money for a house bigger than they need, or a boat, or huge RV or something. The 2000's were fun, but nobody expected it to last forever.
The US is still the place to be, so when people freak out and complain as if we have it as bad as the true poor countries in the world, it seems a bit like a spoiled child whining. What's most interesting is the one's doing the most worrying, complaining and scheming this past year are people who are wealthy. Greed is a disease.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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I don't know if my question is relevant. When are the North Koreans going to blow up Japan with a nuclear weapon?
Likely never. Kim knows his little country-sized prison will be destroyed if he pulls anything like that. And what's a dictator good for, without people to oppress, lock up in gulags, and exploit?
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Hey, don't knock gold... it might be all we have left come 2012, ;D
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If society actually does collapse, gold will be next to worthless. Ammunition will be the new currency.
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If society actually does collapse, gold will be next to worthless. Ammunition will be the new currency.
Yes, and anything edible. Also practical clothing and first aid/medical items. Also what will then be luxuries - like tolit paper and soap. Salt. But your right; amo will be like gold; no doubt about it.