Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 21, 2007, 10:50:01 PM
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I am posting this in the hope that other parents who are looking for help for a struggling teen won't be taken advantage of as we were
After a great deal of checking, we hired Paul Auchterlonie of Advantus Education as an educational consultant. Once the contract was signed and he was paid ($3,000) up front, he became unreachable. His website (Advantus Education) speaks of a staff, but it turns out he is a one-person operation. He did not return phone calls or emails for close to three weeks, at which point we sent him a registered letter declaring the contract void on the basis of his non-compliance, and asking for a full refund.
He emailed that day (no coincidence) with a lot of conflicting excuses. Over the next week we had many email exchanges, but he refused to actually telephone us. The long and short of it is, he refused to issue a refund, and so we have lost three thousand dollars.
I got in touch with a lot of people who he had once worked with, both families and professionals. It turns out that he used to be very respected but in the last year or so he has given up his offices, lost his staff and reputation. However, he's still taking in money.
We are struggling now to help our daughter through a difficult time and can't spare the time to take this to a lawyer, which I would guess is something he counts on. When I have time I will file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. By the way, it turns out that there were multiple complaints filed against him, but under a different business name.
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Sounds like a typical edcon to me. You see, you can't spell edconsultant with out "Con". They are all just con men.
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Just think, it could have been worse- you could have actually sent your daughter to a bona fide shitpit.
Oh wait, that's what you're trying to do? Never mind. I hope you meet another scam artist, and that one takes even more.
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I am posting this in the hope that other parents who are looking for help for a struggling teen won't be taken advantage of as we were
After a great deal of checking, we hired Paul Auchterlonie of Advantus Education as an educational consultant. Once the contract was signed and he was paid ($3,000) up front, he became unreachable. His website (Advantus Education) speaks of a staff, but it turns out he is a one-person operation. He did not return phone calls or emails for close to three weeks, at which point we sent him a registered letter declaring the contract void on the basis of his non-compliance, and asking for a full refund.
He emailed that day (no coincidence) with a lot of conflicting excuses. Over the next week we had many email exchanges, but he refused to actually telephone us. The long and short of it is, he refused to issue a refund, and so we have lost three thousand dollars.
I got in touch with a lot of people who he had once worked with, both families and professionals. It turns out that he used to be very respected but in the last year or so he has given up his offices, lost his staff and reputation. However, he's still taking in money.
We are struggling now to help our daughter through a difficult time and can't spare the time to take this to a lawyer, which I would guess is something he counts on. When I have time I will file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. By the way, it turns out that there were multiple complaints filed against him, but under a different business name.
You only lost your money, and not your child.
You should be glad.
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God, you should've contacted me! I had a Valentine's Day special going on. I would've done it for half that price LOL!!!!
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God, you should've contacted me! I had a Valentine's Day special going on. I would've done it for half that price LOL!!!!
:wink: :wink: :wink:
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After a great deal of checking, we hired Paul Auchterlonie of Advantus Education as an educational consultant. Once the contract was signed and he was paid ($3,000) up front, he became unreachable. His website (Advantus Education) speaks of a staff, but it turns out he is a one-person operation. He did not return phone calls or emails for close to three weeks, at which point we sent him a registered letter declaring the contract void on the basis of his non-compliance, and asking for a full refund.
He emailed that day (no coincidence) with a lot of conflicting excuses. Over the next week we had many email exchanges, but he refused to actually telephone us. The long and short of it is, he refused to issue a refund, and so we have lost three thousand dollars.
I got in touch with a lot of people who he had once worked with, both families and professionals. It turns out that he used to be very respected but in the last year or so he has given up his offices, lost his staff and reputation. However, he's still taking in money.
FEB 22
Ok. Here a couple of things I absolutely must respond to. Firstly, and most importantly, Are you a Troll? Meaning Are you really here to find out information by asking an related question? Are you extracting information from me, not to learn, but to learn what WE KNOW?
Because:
Paul Aucherlonie (I thought it was Auchterlonie with a 't') was the President of the student body (as was at least one other former student I knew firsthand and suspect to have gone into the Troubled Teen industry also!) when I was a student at RMA/Cedu in Idaho.
Did Paul Auchterlonie (I've just confirmed the speling of his name), Son of Peg and David of Los Angeles and Calabasas, CA respectively, 90036 (Information supplied by RMA in 1990) let you know that he had been a student- graduate of a CEDU school?
I hope things worked our for your child, that is the most important thing, Please recognize that as a CEDU graduate, the person you hired as an independent consultant couldn't have been independent due to his own 'assistance' as a troubled teen? There is very much more to say, and if you have any questions about further assisting your chid, I won't charge you anything ever! Of course, I'm not an Ed. Con, either, though.
best luck with working it all out with your child, seriously.
-blownaway
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I believe this person is for real. A very similar post appeared in ST at around the same time (and you know what the advise is going to be over there). Be nice.
Dropin~
We did not use an educational consultant. Only because we didn't know such "professionals" existed. In hind sight I'm very glad that we didn't for two reasons.
1.) If you are planning a placement (and I'm certainly not suggesting that you should) You should do the research, meet the staff, see the facilities and turn every stone over!! Don't leave such important matters to a perfect stranger ... whose credentials and business practices are unknown to you.
2.) It wasn't until I spent some time around this forum that I realized that educational consultants not only get lots of green from you the parent ... they also in many cases get "kick backs" from the programs to which they refer your child. Don't you see something inherently wrong with that? It's called a conflict of interest.
Before you consider an ed con ... or a long term placement for your child please share your family's story with us. What has brought you to this place? There are so many alternatives out there. I wish someone had pointed them out to me.
I would admonish you not to relinquish your parental rights to a program. I did ... and I regret it very much.
Please PM me if you want ... I'll share our experience with you.
Proceed slowly ... and most cautiously.
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Truth Searcher and blownawaytheidahoway --
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. A couple points:
We would never, ever send our daughter to any program without checking it out thoroughly ourselves, in person, and also checking multiple references and speaking to students who had been through the program.
I understand there is a certain mindset here that assumes all ed cons are bad. There's really no sense in arguing through that again, is there? Certainly the one we dealt with was dishonest, and I provide that information for those people who may be considering signing a contract with him.
We did talk to families who had used Paul A as a consultant and who were very satisfied with the help they got from him. Apparently his decline was very fast and steep. Which of course means that it's important to check even more closely than we did.
Given the tone of some of the responses here, I am not ready to provide any detailed information about our situation. I will say this: we have a child in serious trouble, one who is a danger to herself. To find the right kind of help for her we will consult and consider every option, from every angle. We won't depend on one person's experience or anecdotes nor are we satisfied with the information from the programs we are considering.
What works for one situation may be disasterous in another. We are very aware of that. And as far as losing $3K -- we would spend a hundred times that amount to get our daughter back on her feet, without regrets. However. We also know that a cure can't be bought.
We love our daughter and won't be bullied by anyone -- programs, consultants, professionals of any kind, and certainly not anonymous strangers on a discussion board -- into taking (or abandoning) one path or another.
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Lots of name changes. Curious.
So he went to RMA?
JONES/AUCHTERLONIE CHANGE NAME
(June 22, 2004) Paul Auchterlonie IECA, Seattle, WA, 206-323-1838, www.appianeducation.com (http://www.appianeducation.com). Also, they hired Amy Aldrich as a new special needs consultant. Aldrich had worked as a therapist at Aspen Ranch some time ago.
AUCHTERLONIE STARTS ADVANTUS EDUCATION
(October 19, 2005) Paul Auchterlonie, Ed.M., Managing Director, Advantus Education, LLC, Austin, TX, 1-866-869-5979, announced he has started a new service that evaluates schools and colleges to aid parents and students in assessing, applying to and selecting appropriate options.
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There's really no sense in arguing through that again, is there?
[troll3]
Now this is a new twist. A troll that slams an ed-con in the process.
Mr. Auchterlonie: If you are in fact really taking parents' money without sending their kids to hellholes, you have my full support and I wish you the best of luck.
On the tiny off chance that the OP is real, get your daughter in here so she can see what kind of idiots are after her. Have her read the CEDU board for a while. How's that for an option?
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Why not try actual, non-quack therapy in the least restrictive environment necessary that actually sees if she has any problems to begin with and treats what is actually wrong while protecting her rights?
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Why not try actual, non-quack therapy in the least restrictive environment necessary that actually sees if she has any problems to begin with and treats what is actually wrong while protecting her rights?
What makes you assume that we haven't done that? That we haven't been doing that at more since she was eight years old? Why do you assume she hasn't read this website and every other piece of information available through every venue?
Auchterlonie is no longer associated with Yvonne Jones and hasn't been for at least a year. I have no bad experiences with, and have not heard anything but positives about Ms. Jones. I don't know if he went to REM.
You can call me a troll if you like, though I'm not sure what I've done except to state my disinclination to argue a point that has been argued at length already. I think this board does provide a valuable source of information, but like all such sources, not all of it will be reliable.
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dropin, In addition to what you're already doing(research, etc) do keep in mind that the parents of abused kids are not all idiots or negligent. The risk you take in forcing someone into treatment is great because the only avenue of escape(from abuse) is through you and most programs cutoff or monitor child/parent contact to deter the child from reporting abuse.
My advice is as follows- Don't take any action out of desperation
- Remain patient and persistent
- Do not force any kind of treatment on your child
That last one may seem ridiculous to some but your child stands a much better chance at success if she has a say in the treatment she receives.
If it's an emergency that you feel requires immediate care take her to a hospital. Don't let the specialty, emotional growth, wilderness, therapeutic, insert name, schools get a hold of your kid or your attention. They're real smooth talkers that can sucker geniuses and dummies alike. Go with what the APA (http://http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=357&Itemid=35), the US State Department's warning (http://http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/brochures/brochures_1220.html), and the very credible information given by survivors here when looking at treatment options.
Check out Mia's set of 10 good questions (http://http://www.helpatanycost.com/questions.php)
and Also Checkout Margaret Thaler Singer's essay How Thought Reform Works (http://http://www.freeminds.org/psych/thought_reform.htm) specifically the section detailing the "tactic types" of thought reform as they seem to be the checklist used by abusive programs.
Bad stuff can happen when parents get so desperate that they become willing to help their kids at Any Cost, so beware.
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Why not try actual, non-quack therapy in the least restrictive environment necessary that actually sees if she has any problems to begin with and treats what is actually wrong while protecting her rights?
What makes you assume that we haven't done that? That we haven't been doing that at more since she was eight years old? Why do you assume she hasn't read this website and every other piece of information available through every venue?
Auchterlonie is no longer associated with Yvonne Jones and hasn't been for at least a year. I have no bad experiences with, and have not heard anything but positives about Ms. Jones. I don't know if he went to REM.
You can call me a troll if you like, though I'm not sure what I've done except to state my disinclination to argue a point that has been argued at length already. I think this board does provide a valuable source of information, but like all such sources, not all of it will be reliable.
Lesse...
If real therapy doesn't work why would noneffective detention work?
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I don't know what you mean by "real" therapy. If I assume for the moment you mean more traditional therapeutic approaches -- Freudian, Jungian, CBT, etc etc etc, and if none of these traditional approaches have been helpful, are you suggesting that we give up?
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No, you are suggesting giving up if you'd send someone to a "duckfarm" warehousing facility with quack therapy and abusive methods to get the child out of your hair.
If you stick with the child and choose to not discontinue actual, effective treatment (which is the HARD thing to do) then no, you will not be giving up.
Care to enumerate the problems the child in question has?
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Freudian, Jungian, CBT, etc etc etc
You're obviously a troll without even the faintest fucking clue what you're talking about.
You haven't looked into any real therapies, or you would at least know what they're called.
Try again next life.
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dropin~
In terms of real therapy, I think others are pointing out that REAL therapy has to be done willingly. It can not be coerced. Most programs use coercion therapy. And while some are much more subtle than others ... unless the child desires change and desires the therapeutic process it is usually not helpful.
The program that my daughter went to did not use "coerced" therapy IE: of the "Forum" or LGAT type. However, in order to move up the the "level system" she was required to show therapeutic "growth". Didn't take her long to figure out how to "work the system".
She often refers to her school as a "false environment". When she got out, she returned to the same behaviors she had left behind. Do you know when she turned her life around? When SHE decided that she was tired of the same destructive behaviors. She has explained to me in great detail (and I really get it now) that as parents we CAN NOT force change. That is an autonomous decision made when the person desires that change.
What I suggest YOU can do in get involved in family therapy. We learned that our daughters problems were also FAMILY problems. IE: I was overbearing, and overprotective. Doesn't mean that I didn't love my daughter immensely. I did and still do. It just meant that part of the problem was ME. Once we figured out that piece of the puzzle, that part got significantly better.
I have been where you are. My daughter had immense struggles. She really was headed down a scary path. I know the fear. But, in hindsight I wish we would have kept her home. I wish we would have struggled through that year together.
We are blessed. We have a restored relationship. My daughter is doing well. But, not all "program families" are as lucky.
Please PM me if you would like to chat in more detail.
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dropin, please do pm Truth Searcher don't waste your time fighting with us.
Not that I don't welcome the discussion, but you need some help and not the debate thats sure to happen in an open discussion. with that said good luck.........
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Turning to torturecamps in lieu of actual treatment is like turning to a witch doctor if chemo therapy isn't working, and you have cancer.
Well, no, its more like sending your child away TO a witch doctor becuase you can't stand to watch them get worse while actual therapy isn't working yet, because you want to feel better.
:roll: Nevermind that the witchdoctor is getting in the way of actual treatment, and isolating the child, he's potentially making it worse. Making it worse than worse than useless!
PSST... I've never, EVER heard of a destined-for-a-program-kid ending up "dead insane or in jail" becuase they weren't programmed! Hell, kids who turn 18 and end up "exit plan"-ing becuase you can't control the kid anymore end up just going out and doing their own thing.
So, why not just skip all the hassle and bullshit and emancipate the child? If that works so consitently, why not just jump to what we have at least some data of being 'effective'.
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dropin~
unless the child desires change and desires the therapeutic process it is usually not helpful.
What I suggest YOU can do in get involved in family therapy. We learned that our daughters problems were also FAMILY problems. IE: I was overbearing, and overprotective. Doesn't mean that I didn't love my daughter immensely. I did and still do. It just meant that part of the problem was ME. Once we figured out that piece of the puzzle, that part got significantly better.
I have been where you are. My daughter had immense struggles. She really was headed down a scary path. I know the fear. But, in hindsight I wish we would have kept her home. I wish we would have struggled through that year together
Amen
Dropin, My story is pretty much the same, except my kid didn't go to a program & there's no family therapy, but we are getting through this now that I've realised the problem was mainly me, it's a hard thing to admit, it's also hard to knuckle down and change things, the results aren't instant & it's frustrating, but with a bit of hard work you will eventually start to see a change around with loads of steps backwards along the way, but the benefits of those baby steps that take you forward are worth every struggle & headache.
Good luck.
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dropin~
unless the child desires change and desires the therapeutic process it is usually not helpful.
What I suggest YOU can do in get involved in family therapy. We learned that our daughters problems were also FAMILY problems. IE: I was overbearing, and overprotective. Doesn't mean that I didn't love my daughter immensely. I did and still do. It just meant that part of the problem was ME. Once we figured out that piece of the puzzle, that part got significantly better.
I have been where you are. My daughter had immense struggles. She really was headed down a scary path. I know the fear. But, in hindsight I wish we would have kept her home. I wish we would have struggled through that year together
Amen
Dropin, My story is pretty much the same, except my kid didn't go to a program & there's no family therapy, but we are getting through this now that I've realised the problem was mainly me, it's a hard thing to admit, it's also hard to knuckle down and change things, the results aren't instant & it's frustrating, but with a bit of hard work you will eventually start to see a change around with loads of steps backwards along the way, but the benefits of those baby steps that take you forward are worth every struggle & headache.
Good luck.
Amen to both of you.
It all starts with the parents and failing to address this is the hallmark of programs. They isolate and punish the kid into conformity, but they often fail immediately at home because their parents are still the same terrible ones as when they left and they have actually regressed emotionally and socially due to the constrictions at the program.
Look at TheWho for an example. His kid was worse when she got home than when she went in and stopped speaking to TheWho entirely and moved away from him.
She stayed away from the very troubled parent and in a couple of years got heself together AWAY FROM HER FATHER and ALL BY HERSELF. Go figure...
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Hell, it wasn't even up to me to leave the house after I finished Straight. My mom bought the tough love crap and threw me out just for hanging out with my old friends. I told her that I wasn't even getting high with them (omg, jail, insanity and death) but she turned a deaf ear. So there I was 18 yrs old with no prospects. I was lucky enough to find a place in the city to call home and get off the streets. Old friends came through for me when the 'rents didn't.
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Sad to hear......
Mine have, and still do put me through hell, but I bore them, I brought them into this world (and have on many occassions wanted to take them out again) so it is my job to continue onwards.
No matter what's happened, the very fact we've stuck together has really made such a diference, even the son who did end up in jail twice has made a vast improvement and I'd pretty much written him off due to his age, he attends a college interview Monday - i'm having trouble believing it's true, sometimes I have to pinch myself knowing it'll all turn out okay in the end - what a ride!
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Sad to hear......
Mine have, and still do put me through hell, but I bore them, I brought them into this world (and have on many occassions wanted to take them out again) so it is my job to continue onwards.
No matter what's happened, the very fact we've stuck together has really made such a diference, even the son who did end up in jail twice has made a vast improvement and I'd pretty much written him off due to his age, he attends a college interview Monday - i'm having trouble believing it's true, sometimes I have to pinch myself knowing it'll all turn out okay in the end - what a ride!
Things can come around given time and room to breathe.
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So yet again, the best thing to do is just exit plan :roll:
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Sewage under the bridge, my friend.
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I don't know what you mean by "real" therapy. If I assume for the moment you mean more traditional therapeutic approaches -- Freudian, Jungian, CBT, etc etc etc, and if none of these traditional approaches have been helpful, are you suggesting that we give up?
I strongly suspect that you are conflating "not helpful" with "didn't get as good a result as I want or need."
Sometimes, after all you can do, there's nothing more you can do. For example, people with bipolar disorder have a 20% suicide rate untreated---but those of us who are treated still have an 11% suicide rate.
All of us will eventually get a health problem that modern medicine won't be able to fix and we'll die. That's true for every human being on the planet--you will eventually get something the doctors can't fix and you'll die.
Some of us--no matter who we are or what we do or don't have--are going to die young.
Everybody's going to die sometime, and getting out of bed each morning is a risk. This applies not just to you but to everybody you love from your cat to your child. Learn to cope with that truth--everybody else has to.
We do what we can, and we come to terms with the rest.
We don't inflict ineffective and painful quack treatments on our loved ones just because we can't face the unavoidable risk of losing them when they're sick with something.
At least, mentally stable people don't do that to our loved ones.
If you're willing to do it to yours, you need to check into some of that traditional therapy for yourself. Soonest.
Julie
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Gads, hit the censor bot converting "you*need*to" to "I want you to" once again.
That censor bot is a good behavior modification consequence, because it makes what you wrote sound awkward.
As with all punishments, I hate the thing.
Also as with all punishments, stubborn bitches like me revolt against it.
:lol:
Julie
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Julie, can I ask why you always post as a guest and sign your name at the bottom?
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And just like all punishments, they don't stop the behavior, just piss off the mis-behaving person.
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Momma always says that the best parenting tool is a loaded gun, but Grandpa always says that the best parenting tool is a conversation. Thank God Grandpa raised Momma............
j/k momma's not violent........
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Gads, hit the censor bot converting "you*need*to" to "I want you to" once again.
& # 1 7 3 ; (no spaces)
Stick it in the middle of anything you need to keep uncensored. (Note that it doesn't even make a space.) This is a perfect offense against any word filter on any forum.
You're welcome.
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MGDP, you're my new favorite programming geek.