Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 20, 2007, 09:13:44 AM
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Straight Types of Raps
This was written by someone else, I don't know who. I really hope they don't mind if I post it here, if they do I can take it down. Read at your own risk.
Some more about rap structure and the process of rap's :
Types of Raps
Past/Present/Future- This was the most common of the therapeutic
raps. There would be a basic theme or concept. For instance, staff
might come in to the front of the group and ask someone to relate
about a time in their past when they failed to do what they had said
they would do. Everyone would start to motivate, a noisy proposition,
and staff would call on a oldcomer to set a good tone for the rap.
Then staff would relate a little to what they said,and then a couple
more oldcomers. Eventually once the idea was established
staff would start calling on newcomers. People who did not relate with
specific personal and heartfelt information would be confronted.
Staff would call on someone else in the group to carry out the
confrontation. Staff would lead the group into relating about the
present. This might provide them a window to ask a person who had
failed in a commitment the prior day-just why did it happened ? This
kind of planned confrontation was daily. The Rap would end on
positive note, with staff leading the group to discuss
goals or dreams about fulfilling commitments in the future.
Confrontation- The "volcano" was a favorite confrontation rap. There
were many similar concepts. The basic idea is to get one or two
people to describe exploding, or the things that a volcano does, then
start to call on the people targeted for confrontation. These were
people who were anything short of 100% compliant and enthusiastic
about the program. These raps often led to extensive verbal assault
and physical battery. Confrontation raps were almost always with a
couple of Sr. Staff or higher in the room, or possibly leading the
group. They might also participate from the back of the
group.
Review- There were only a couple of review raps as I remember it. One
was rules rap, a daily recitation of the entire litany of rules
including memorization of all the names and positions on the chain of
command. The other common review rap was after the open meetings on
Friday and Monday nights.
Off The Wall- If the group was in a good place we would at times be
treated to an off the wall rap. This might include breaking up into
groups and working on role playing projects.
Core Idea- This rap was "grown from a core statement or central
thought".Avoiding chronological development staff would lead the
group in the process of taking "the pearl" and add layer after layer
of insight and perception to it before the rap draws to a close.
Work Groups- Splitting into triads or larger groups to allow each
small group work as a team to build a project or skit. This is more
of a technique than a kind of rap as it can be integrated in many rap-
types.
Instructional- Some review raps are instructional, often morning rap
is instructional, the point of the rap is to educate. Virtually all
basics raps were instructional. RSC or RSA raps were instructional.
Kind of self-explanatory.
Introduction- Staff could choose to do their own introduction to the
group as the basis for a rap. They could answer questions about their
own lives and pasts as a way to build trust with the group.
Basics- A basics rap was about the seven steps and the other *tools*
of change that the program offered. They avoided confrontation and
personal issues. Staff would keep the pace fast and the relating
brief. However, it should be noted that any rap about "honesty" could
start off as basics and end up confrontational. It was the staff
members call, it could change directions in the time it took for a
fifth phaser to hand in a Chain of Command report.
Love Rap- Generally every night rap was some variety of love rap.
Confrontation was avoided; focus was on changes of the day, setting
goals and other positive concepts. Misbehavers were often carried out
to the intake rooms for these positive raps. Love raps were mushy
tear filled events where people who had been carving in their own
arms all day would stand up and cry from the stress. These
emotionally battered children would promise to change the following
day and start the whole process over again in the morning.
Daily Rap Structure Basics-The object is warming up the group &
getting them to start thinking about the steps again. Focus them, get
them started motivating, do an early assessment for the mood of the
group. Label trouble points and correct seating arrangements. Rap
solely focused on basics of the program. Avoid confrontation or
personal issues.
Morning Rap- A quick paced shallow rap about the past habits ties and
friends. A fast paced process of demonizing anything that was part of
the clients life prior to the program. Clothing, foods, behaviors,
thoughts and every other aspect of the "past" was demeaned
repeatedly. Morning rap was to set the mood for the day - compulsive
confession. On open meeting days this slot was filled with Homes Rap.
Guys & Girls Rap- Much more personal rap, with one staff member
typically of the same gender as the group. These raps involved
intense pressure to discuss sexual topics. Confession of the most
horrific sexual thoughts was encouraged. Guys talked about their
natural random homo-erotic thoughts as if they were demons that were
part of the druggie world coming to drag them into relapse. Girls
talked about how they were sluts in their pasts and confessed to
having sluttish desires towards the guys in the group, again,
as part of the drug problem. Guys talked about being "losers" in their
pasts, and "losers" in their current school/work environments outside
the program.. These raps were often highly confrontational, and
regularly degraded into physical violence for both sexes.
Exercise Rap- Staff Trainees typically led this rap, though at times
it was a fifth or fourth phaser. The exercises were always performed
with no warm up or cool down process. We were always on a hard floor.
We often did exercises that were really damaging to our bodies. The
worst were the forced leg lifts, often mixed with aggressive verbal
assault and physical battery. I remember people jogging in place
barefoot, or in otherwise poor footwear for such high-impact
exercise. I have li ttle doubt that this practice caused
physical damage to many of clients. If you think about it for a
minute,prisons can't do this to people, and schools have to have a
licensed instructor, and even then it has to be voluntary. This was
daily forced exercise without regard for the potential damage. The
objective was simple-get the group worked up before confrontation rap
of the day.
Afternoon Rap- The most confrontational rap slot of the day. This was
oftena period of two solid hours of loud aggressive verbal assaults
along with physical battery. Afternoon rap was a sweaty inferno in
the Georgia summer.These raps would attract senior staff and the
group staff supervisor. These were people who were highly skilled at
verbal assault and manipulation.Afternoon rap was the tear down point
of the day for the newcomers. They were faced with the waves of
oldcomers arriving from school and work,flaunting their freedom.
These so called examples would then spend the late afternoon and
evening hours relating to the group, confronting newcomers and
doing the grunt work of operating the program. Newcomers were brought
to understand over time that if they simply confessed to being a drug
addict,and learned to believe it, they too could be a part of this
elite group & free from the hell of being a newcomer. On open meeting
days this slot was filled with Executive Rap.
Night Rap- Almost always a love rap of some sort, the idea was to send
everyone home thinking about themselves and how lucky they were to be
alive and in straight. Night rap often included turning the lights
down low, staff members telling their own stories, lots of tears,
slow songs etc. Bring the kids down from being abused each night
before you send them home.What is a Rap ? For my own part a rap was a
period of two hours or longer, in a group of 100-300 people, getting
motivated and if called upon, standing up and trying to relate to the
rap topic in a way that would win me group approval. Once I got into
staff training I learned more about how the raps were structured
and what their purposes were as I have written above, but that still
does not seem to answer the question, what is a rap ?
It is nearly impossible to explain the level of emotional pressure
developed within the group. A rap was always focused on addiction and
recovery, even an off the wall rap would end with a serious note
about addiction and the risk of ending up dead or in jail. Raps are
about the entire group changing,not just individuals. An individual
revelation in a rap can be therapeutic or traumatic for everyone in
the room. Raps were a chance for staff and upper phasers to use
information they had about newcomers against them, with
the goal of changing these peoples minds.
Raps are very structured group conversations. Staff would pick and
choose who they called on in group based on knowledge of how that
person will relate to a rap topic. Trusted higher phasers, especially
fourth and fifth phasers were exected to set the example of relating
in a manner that obtained group approval. Group approval was only
offered for people who had come to accept themselves as insane, and
in need of God. The deceptive and generic term higher powers is often
put forth as a denial of the religious nature of the program. It is
merely smoke and mirrors. Newcomers are coerced through intense group
pressures into relating in the same way. Relating in anyway that is
off the topic or focus of the rap will result in prompt
verbal assault and potentially physical battery. The process of
confession and conformity was central to the program and raps were
planned to elicit as many confessions as possible from group
memebers. The ultimate goal was to elicit complete self disclosure,
the sharing of ones innermost thoughts,darkest ideas and deepest
fears. Revelation of these normally hidden but natural human emotions
and fears in such a traumatic and stressful manner left the kid in a
state best described as an emotional sponge. If you truly
want to find out how this feels, go to work tommorrow, stand up in the
middle of the cubicle farm, and profess loudly and tearfully your most
deeply hidden secret or fear, that one thing that you would really
rather no one ever knew - like having sex with a relative, touching
your dogs genitals when you were 8 years old etc. Everyone has them,
we all grew up on the same planet. Try it, see if you like it. To get
the full effect be sure there are at least 100 people around, and get
them all to yell "we love you" at you when you are done. Complete the
process by sitting down and flailing your arms and upper body around
wildly for the next 12 hours without speaking again all day. Please
let me know how it goes via E-mail.
Kids, don't try this at home and all standard disclaimers for this
kind of example apply Raps were the only way that a newcomer was
allowed to communicate for twelve hours a day. A newcomer who did not
get motivated would not be called on and could go the entire day
without being permitted to speak. A newcomer who spoke out in group,
without the permission of the staff, would quickly be battered, at
the hands of those around them, If the surrounding clients were
not agressive enough in enforcement, a staff member would incite them
to physically assault a newcomer who was not motivating and relating
appropiately in a rap. Someone would put their hand over the
newcomers mouth and try to gag the person. If there was any
resistance to this battery, the newcomer would then be further
battered, restrained, and perhaps thrown to the ground and sat upon-
all for the act of speaking. There was no avenue of recourse for the
newcomer. Most often in a few weeks or months the same
newcomer would be apologizing for "forcing the group to restrain me
for my own good, to protect me from my twisted drug habit of speaking
out without permission", or some such programmed lingo-drivel.
Raps were the core control feature, raps were the entire day, even
dinner and lunch were referred to as raps. During meals we would be
objects of ridicule if we did not put our food down to get motivated
to speak each time we had the chance. Raps were constant, they were
woven together with the Straight Inc. songs, they never seemed to
end. There was no "recess".
Rap Topics and Outlines I can Remember
The Cliche Rap - A particular Sr. Staff member did a really smoking
cliche rap that stands out in early 1984. The idea was to get people
into relating in really cliche based statements, leading the group
into the use of cliches by relating as a Sr. Staff in a pat short
shallow way. As the group gets into the cliches and people use more
and more of them, then you ask them what is a cliche ? then start
asking some problem oldcomers to explain cliches in their programs
etc...it turns into a raucous confrontational game, you see as people
talk in cliches trying to deny that they are doing so, Staff would
call on someone who is frantically trying to get the chance
to confront the first person. This second individual is waving their
hand in the air attempting to manipulate the staff in any way
possible to be the one to confront, and when called on starts to use
a new set of cliches to confront with, so the staff gets to call
them down with a third phaser standing up , and so on till you get
four or five people all standing. The last one up has to be the first
to finish, and ach one in turn has to eat their words and be publicly
humiliated and humbled.
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Awesome find!
When speaking to folks about Straight Inc. it's truly difficult to fully explain. Because of the memories, and the emotion that generally immediately follow. The words just come out in some emotional vomit. At that point it's easy to see the chunks of anger, depression, rage and such. Course this doesnt even consider the recipient usually/smuggly act's as if..."ya probably deserved it", compounding the emotional fervor I usually get caught up in...then getting so tounque tied...its no wonder why people havae looked at me as if I had three heads.
I like this post! It's a lil lengthy (oxymoronic huh)....but Gawd Damn, what we went thru was/is lengthy...It states facts and after each heading I could add hours of emotional spew as sub-headings.
Thanks to whever posted it, again! Diffinately a cut-n-paste into a perminate document so not to be lost!
Woof
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Hi Woof!!
I found these a while ago and they were huanting to say the least! Each description jarred loose some hellish fucked up memories. The worst was having been on first phase for many months and really begining to wonder if I was dead and really in hell. The staff were like Gods with almost unlimited power to torture and terrorize! God this makes my mind go numb!!
Mayflower Rich
82-83
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Hopefully these criminals will pay for what they did in THIS life.
I hope we read about some of their deaths soon.
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Hopefully these criminals will pay for what they did in THIS life.
I hope we read about some of their deaths soon.
I, for one, will dance on Virgil's grave. Last time I saw the fuck he didn't look too healthy, and mentioned his heart surgery, so it won't be long 'til that old shitbag kicks off. It'll be a party, for sure.
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I remember the 'Bust Ass' raps, too...
The first one I experienced was about a week or so after I went in. It was in the a small room and we were all crammed in there. It went on and on. My legs were cramped and aching from sitting crossed-legged for so long.
It scared the hell out of me. I truly thought everyone was nuts.
V.
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I, for one, will dance on Virgil's grave. Last time I saw the fuck he didn't look too healthy, and mentioned his heart surgery, so it won't be long 'til that old shitbag kicks off. It'll be a party, for sure.
Maybe it's time for another psychic experiment redux? :rofl:
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I remember the 'Bust Ass' raps, too...
The first one I experienced was about a week or so after I went in. It was in the a small room and we were all crammed in there. It went on and on. My legs were cramped and aching from sitting crossed-legged for so long.
It scared the hell out of me. I truly thought everyone was nuts.
V.
I first came into the group room during a "bust ass" rap. The place was covered in sweat and steam, and I thought I must have found my way into some weird kind of Hell. I was right.
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Mornings at Milton Roy were my favorite part of the day. Since there was a large saltwater bayou behind the building, there was always a cool morning breeze heading towards the Gulf of Mexico every day. The unconditioned area we were housed in did not start to heat up until roughly 10 to 11 a.m. I seem to remember that mornings were pretty much dominated by girl Staffers. They talked their shit and I made absolutely no effort to motivate.
I was constantly stood up for not motivating and Liz Cassidy even gave me the nickname of "Bob the Blob." When I would get stood up, I would smear my hands over my face and make faces like my skin was made of rubber and shit, and stick my tounge out at people and act like I was retarted and shit, which would crack up the other front row newcomers and they would get yelled at for "falling into my shit." This would result in my being ostricized to the rear of the group, which was pretty much my goal the whole fucking time. After an hour or so, I would actually raise my hand and get called on and then take the opportunity to do something really bizarre, like proclaim that such and such girl in the fourth row on the girls side was'nt wearing a bra and it was really "bringing me down" and making it hard to "focus on my program." This would totally fuck up the entire course of the rap and leave the girl staff speechless and the girls side would erupt in a goddamn frenzy as they damn near threw their elbows out of joint for the supreme chance of verbally ripping me a new asshole. It was fucking great!
It got to the point where Mrs. Petermann started coming in earlier to deal with my shit and they did an emergency promotion of Guy Staff to restore the balance. Chris Casselor shot up to Junior Staff partly because of me, because there was no one to fill the void in the mornings without him. I used to fuckin dread the raps immediately following lunch, because that is when the Girl Staff reclaimed their throne. It was also the hottest part of the day. Them bitches would sit up front and guzzle fucking QUARTS of iced tea right in front of us. Me and the other jerks would somehow hold on to our cups from lunch that contained 10 or 12 little ice cubes and savor them one by one in our mouths as the hellish afternoon rap took it's course. These raps generally were dominated by the girls side and dealt with sexual abuse and being used by guys and sex for drugs and all that other shit. I did'nt care, because I was a virgin then, so it was all just a bunch of bullshit to me and I refused to be a part of it. This is when the girls side tore into me the hardest. I would just stand there and stare at her tits, and it got to the point where most girls that confronted me would cross their arms while they screamed at me. Sometimes I would pretend to fall asleep, other times the heat caused it to happen for real.
My favorite time of the day was right before the assholes came in from Summer School and there was a lull in the group. This is when I would do a perfect imitation of Jimmy Cassidy and yell out "Guy's Medication" and total pandomonium would insue. Looking back on it, I guess that was my most famous trademark, and it is simply amazing how well it worked and how long I actually pulled it off day after day, week after week. I could even imitate a few of the Girl Staffers for a badly needed break in the routine. The raps I hated the most were Love Raps. I really, really hated them with a passion and would pull some of my best shit during them. My favorite was to get ostricized to the back of the group in the afternoon and then grab an empty chair and swing it back in forth building momentum and then let it fly towards the ceiling as high as it would go until it came down and crashed on the concrete, scaring the living shit out of most of the group during the low lights, gushiest part of the rap. In my program, there really was'nt any physical contact allowed at all between clients. Straight was still in it's infancy and facing the revocation of it's license by HRS following several complaints and bad press following the Jerry Vancil incident and Gayle Stevenson splitting out a window in her pajamas and winding up in the St. Pete Times. Compared to later versions of the program, I really got away with murder, but it was either that, or I think I may have done something really rash like attempt to steal an oldcomer's car to split the program. Since I was basically allowed to be a jerk, I did what I did until time itself forced me to comply. I simply was not gonna allow Straight to fuck with my education, so I complied and "got with the program," but they never really had me, and alot of people knew it, but when you housed 5 newcomers a night with zero splits, you were a valuable asset so Staff tended not to fuck with you. Putting me on a refresher would have meant 3 newcomers needed a home that night, so I got away with a lot back then.
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Mornings at Milton Roy were my favorite part of the day. Since there was a large saltwater bayou behind the building, there was always a cool morning breeze heading towards the Gulf of Mexico every day. (actually the breeze goes from the Gulf towards the Bay) The unconditioned area we were housed in did not start to heat up until roughly 10 to 11 a.m. I seem to remember that mornings were pretty much dominated by girl Staffers. They talked their shit and I made absolutely no effort to motivate.
I was constantly stood up for not motivating and Liz Cassidy even gave me the nickname of "Bob the Blob." When I would get stood up, I would smear my hands over my face and make faces like my skin was made of rubber and shit, and stick my tounge out at people and act like I was retarted and shit, which would crack up the other front row newcomers and they would get yelled at for "falling into my shit."
Oh man! You were so coooool!!
This would result in my being ostricized to the rear of the group, which was pretty much my goal the whole fucking time. After an hour or so, I would actually raise my hand and get called on and then take the opportunity to do something really bizarre, like proclaim that such and such girl in the fourth row on the girls side was'nt wearing a bra and it was really "bringing me down" and making it hard to "focus on my program." This would totally fuck up the entire course of the rap and leave the girl staff speechless and the girls side would erupt in a goddamn frenzy as they damn near threw their elbows out of joint for the supreme chance of verbally ripping me a new asshole. It was fucking great!
Oh yes, you were the master.
It got to the point where Mrs. Petermann started coming in earlier to deal with my shit and they did an emergency promotion of Guy Staff to restore the balance.
You "Jerk". 85 days....ppfffffft. I laugh at your 85 days.
Me and the other jerks would somehow hold on to our cups from lunch that contained 10 or 12 little ice cubes and savor them one by one in our mouths as the hellish afternoon rap took it's course. These raps generally were dominated by the girls side and dealt with sexual abuse and being used by guys and sex for drugs and all that other shit. I did'nt care, because I was a virgin then, so it was all just a bunch of bullshit to me and I refused to be a part of it. This is when the girls side tore into me the hardest. I would just stand there and stare at her tits, and it got to the point where most girls that confronted me would cross their arms while they screamed at me. Sometimes I would pretend to fall asleep, other times the heat caused it to happen for real.
Damn! You were soooooo coool!!
My favorite time of the day was right before the assholes came in from Summer School and there was a lull in the group. This is when I would do a perfect imitation of Jimmy Cassidy and yell out "Guy's Medication" and total pandomonium would insue. Looking back on it, I guess that was my most famous trademark,
"famous trademark" :rofl: :rofl:
and it is simply amazing how well it worked and how long I actually pulled it off day after day, week after week. I could even imitate a few of the Girl Staffers for a badly needed break in the routine. The raps I hated the most were Love Raps. I really, really hated them with a passion and would pull some of my best shit during them. My favorite was to get ostricized to the back of the group in the afternoon and then grab an empty chair and swing it back in forth building momentum and then let it fly towards the ceiling as high as it would go until it came down and crashed on the concrete, scaring the living shit out of most of the group during the low lights, gushiest part of the rap. In my program, there really was'nt any physical contact allowed at all between clients. Straight was still in it's infancy and facing the revocation of it's license by HRS following several complaints and bad press following the Jerry Vancil incident and Gayle Stevenson splitting out a window in her pajamas and winding up in the St. Pete Times. Compared to later versions of the program, I really got away with murder, but it was either that, or I think I may have done something really rash like attempt to steal an oldcomer's car to split the program. Since I was basically allowed to be a jerk, I did what I did until time itself forced me to comply. I simply was not gonna allow Straight to fuck with my education, so I complied and "got with the program," but they never really had me, and alot of people knew it, but when you housed 5 newcomers a night with zero splits, you were a valuable asset so Staff tended not to fuck with you. Putting me on a refresher would have meant 3 newcomers needed a home that night, so I got away with a lot back then.
I was one of the cool ones there. If not for me, tons of other kids would have been terrorized. If only I could have gone on staff. I would have made a difference alright.
-
Mornings at Milton Roy were my favorite part of the day. Since there was a large saltwater bayou behind the building, there was always a cool morning breeze heading towards the Gulf of Mexico every day. (actually the breeze goes from the Gulf towards the Bay) The unconditioned area we were housed in did not start to heat up until roughly 10 to 11 a.m. I seem to remember that mornings were pretty much dominated by girl Staffers. They talked their shit and I made absolutely no effort to motivate.
I was constantly stood up for not motivating and Liz Cassidy even gave me the nickname of "Bob the Blob." When I would get stood up, I would smear my hands over my face and make faces like my skin was made of rubber and shit, and stick my tounge out at people and act like I was retarted and shit, which would crack up the other front row newcomers and they would get yelled at for "falling into my shit."
Oh man! You were so coooool!!
This would result in my being ostricized to the rear of the group, which was pretty much my goal the whole fucking time. After an hour or so, I would actually raise my hand and get called on and then take the opportunity to do something really bizarre, like proclaim that such and such girl in the fourth row on the girls side was'nt wearing a bra and it was really "bringing me down" and making it hard to "focus on my program." This would totally fuck up the entire course of the rap and leave the girl staff speechless and the girls side would erupt in a goddamn frenzy as they damn near threw their elbows out of joint for the supreme chance of verbally ripping me a new asshole. It was fucking great!
Oh yes, you were the master.
It got to the point where Mrs. Petermann started coming in earlier to deal with my shit and they did an emergency promotion of Guy Staff to restore the balance.
You "Jerk". 85 days....ppfffffft. I laugh at your 85 days.
Me and the other jerks would somehow hold on to our cups from lunch that contained 10 or 12 little ice cubes and savor them one by one in our mouths as the hellish afternoon rap took it's course. These raps generally were dominated by the girls side and dealt with sexual abuse and being used by guys and sex for drugs and all that other shit. I did'nt care, because I was a virgin then, so it was all just a bunch of bullshit to me and I refused to be a part of it. This is when the girls side tore into me the hardest. I would just stand there and stare at her tits, and it got to the point where most girls that confronted me would cross their arms while they screamed at me. Sometimes I would pretend to fall asleep, other times the heat caused it to happen for real.
Damn! You were soooooo coool!!
My favorite time of the day was right before the assholes came in from Summer School and there was a lull in the group. This is when I would do a perfect imitation of Jimmy Cassidy and yell out "Guy's Medication" and total pandomonium would insue. Looking back on it, I guess that was my most famous trademark,
"famous trademark" :rofl: :rofl:
and it is simply amazing how well it worked and how long I actually pulled it off day after day, week after week. I could even imitate a few of the Girl Staffers for a badly needed break in the routine. The raps I hated the most were Love Raps. I really, really hated them with a passion and would pull some of my best shit during them. My favorite was to get ostricized to the back of the group in the afternoon and then grab an empty chair and swing it back in forth building momentum and then let it fly towards the ceiling as high as it would go until it came down and crashed on the concrete, scaring the living shit out of most of the group during the low lights, gushiest part of the rap. In my program, there really was'nt any physical contact allowed at all between clients. Straight was still in it's infancy and facing the revocation of it's license by HRS following several complaints and bad press following the Jerry Vancil incident and Gayle Stevenson splitting out a window in her pajamas and winding up in the St. Pete Times. Compared to later versions of the program, I really got away with murder, but it was either that, or I think I may have done something really rash like attempt to steal an oldcomer's car to split the program. Since I was basically allowed to be a jerk, I did what I did until time itself forced me to comply. I simply was not gonna allow Straight to fuck with my education, so I complied and "got with the program," but they never really had me, and alot of people knew it, but when you housed 5 newcomers a night with zero splits, you were a valuable asset so Staff tended not to fuck with you. Putting me on a refresher would have meant 3 newcomers needed a home that night, so I got away with a lot back then.
I was one of the cool ones there. If not for me, tons of other kids would have been terrorized. If only I could have gone on staff. I would have made a difference alright.
OY!...
Historically he is correct.
His memory is hauntingly accurate.
The time taken to type is worth while because of memories evoked by his words.
Something I have thought about in the past and also recently. I didnt have a "normal highshool experience" or a "normal adolecent(sp) experience".
Straight Inc for the most part is the entire memory of that era in my life. It's by far the predominate memory I have. Why am I in the wrong, or anyone in the wrong for smiling back on shitty times? When I write memories down and post them here and else where...they are my experience...too the best of my memory. Of course the recollection is filtered thru not only memory but other filters as well. Those filters are the sum total of my existence. I am sure when 85DJ writes his words he also types as dictated thru his memory and other filters.
The question comes to mind why that now some 3 decades later that expression of personality and character can not given without it being subject to ridicule and belittlement. Of course I know the answer to my own question. This is the nature of the beast. Personality assault and character bashing...and it can be relentless and just as ruthless as before. But for what??? Why??? Senseless abuse and torment because someone wants to have a gleamer (like normal people looking "back in the day") sprinkled in his hellish memories?...which I witnessed btw
Then I think of the "writer"...not just myself...85DJ...yourself or any one else that "writes". Each time we write, each time we prepair to allow our being to flow thru our fingers...we expose our throats...handing the blade to the reader. Sometimes I can see it coming. I can sense it when I am writting, and when I am reading others words...It's an odd feeling...Not unlike watching a nature channel. Ya can see the peacefull gazelle grazing....minding thier own damn buisiness....and then...BAM, broadsided by a cheetah going 65mph. Yeah....I know, it's survival of the fittest, natural selection, law of the jungle...It's natural.
Not wiping my ass is natural.
But somehow I evolved from that natural state. I say evolved...indeed it was taught and subsequently, learned.
Perhaps being a hatefull, vengefull, vindictive, arrogant, intimidating, beligerant individual is a natural state for us...Straight Inc having NO small role in this of course. Yet at some point can't we, don't we...shouldn't we evolve from what we think of as our nautral state? And maybe, just maybe be generally hospitable with each other and come to value each others experience?
Eh........probably not
::soapbox::
nevermind
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I'm with ya on this one, W-a-D, thwere is a lot of slagging that goes on here. I've don eit a bit myself, so I'm not gonna try to take some kind of moral high ground or anything, but it does kinda suck. I mean, I understand some hate from being treated the way we were, but I think that is better directed toward the institution and the specific assholes and incidents, not necessarily at each other.
That being said, simply becausde we share the unfortunate experiences of having been in Straight does not automatically make us friends or anyting like that. I don't bestow the title "friend" too easily, personally, and it requires more qualifications than just having been in Straight. Otherwise, I could consider Kevin Lowe, or maybe William Rollins, my friend, and I certainly DO NOT.
In general, though, I think that maybe the following notion laid down by Patti SMith is a pretty good one--"I don't fuck much with the past, but I fuck plenty with the future".
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In general, though, I think that maybe following the notion laid down by Patti SMith is a pretty good one--"I don't fuck much with the past, but I fuck plenty with the future".
:tup: 8-)
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I Write" was something Jack Reed said to a redneck sheriff shortly before the sheriff replied, "No, You Wrong" and hit him upside the head with a black jack.
A few years ago, I would have gotten pissed off and left the board for several weeks, but I am pretty well seasoned to the knee jerk reactions of a few individuals who visit the forum under the pussified cloak of "anonimity." I am used to the insults and put downs and this most recent example of someones protest to my posting here is a pitiful excuse for harrassment so lets dissect this shit like a fuckin STONER at lets say, NINA HARRIS SCHOOL in biology class with a frog and a nice sharp scalpel. Okay ready boys and girls?
Why is it this person never says a fucking thing about the way I talked, acted, or even looked back then?
Answer- It's because they never knew me back then, yet it is extremely interesting that they know things about the person that I am now, which would lead me to believe that they have met me or at least seen me in person.
I also find it interesting that the guest takes the time to point out that the breeze comes from the Gulf to the Bay. Yes, it does, especially in the evening and especially when you are living ON the bay. It's pretty cool that Woof saw the discrepancy as well, because in the MORNING the breeze really does blow west as the land heats up to match the temperature of the surrounding water. These are things that only a native Floridian would know, so this pretty much narrows down the playing field of those who have a bone to pick with me. I think that maybe this here guest person who so cleverly uses the quote feature, yet can't be bothered to actually write anything original or thought provoking, but just quote my own words and manipulate them into a clever little patchwork piece of shit to have mommy Ginger tack up on the refrigerator otherwise known to all as fornits would benefit from attending some goddamn writing classes.
In closing, the weather in the Tampa Bay area is simply gorgeous this time of year, and the water is just now getting warm enough to swim in for short periods of time. I hope my wonderful little anonymous tormenter rushes right out to the beach. This time of year Cow Nose Stingrays are migrating near the shore. They are real hard to see too. Hey, maybe they are "anonymous" as well, and by Crickey, you can do us all a favor and pull a Steve Irwin while your at it mate!!
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Hi Bobby, how's the bird? Nice to see you've put your deductive powers to this one, we can all sleep a little sounder now, knowing that we are safe from the threat of "pussy anon" posters.
Personally, I didn't know you before, during, or after Straight. I have no idea who the fuck you are or what the fuck you look like. Other than this board, and perhaps passing references to your posts, made during conversations with others from this board, I don't know a goddamn thing about you. For some of the fun you've had to endure at the hands of certain parties who shall remain nameless (in fear that I may invoke their presence, I'm superstitious like that), both on these boards and in your real life, you have my sympathies. For any drama you've brought on yourself, well, you're a big boy and can handle it.
Now I can't claim to be impartial in this teapot full of tempestuousness that you guys seem so determined to keep stirring, after all, I am friends with "Anne Bonny" (and the earlier monker is from the Spanish for "Isle of Bones, Key West, Bobby, not the REM song "Cayahoga", which is about someplace in Ohio. Points off for the mistake, but hey, no one's perfect, right Chief?), I know her ex-husband from Straight, I've met her kids for chrissakes, and I can tell you that she is a really cool person who has aided and abetted me in numerous times of crisis. She did a hell of a job raising two daughters under conditions that made that task even more of a pain in the ass that it normally would be (whatever the hell "normal" child-rearing is). That aside, yeah, maybe she does react in a kneejerk fashion responding to some of your posts, but the self-congratulatory tone of many of your posts do, on occasion, strike one as kind of pompous or arrogant, as if maybe you were somehow cooler or less affected by Straight than others were. I know that that reaction has been expressed by a couple of people other than the suspected anon poster that your oh so incredible Sherlock Holmes-like detective prowess has identified. I'm sure this is a mistaken perception, and I am also sure that whatever static between you and Anne is a result of some of the shit you have said about and to her on this board on previous occasions. Whatever. That shit seems to me to exist mainly inside your head, from my limited understanding of it, and it is possible I am wrong, but it sure smells that way from where I stand.
Anyway, that's my two cents on the topic. It'd be nice if you guys could drop it, but whatever. You're still welcome to get high with me (or not) when I dance on Miller Newton's grave.
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Hi Bobby, how's the bird? Nice to see you've put your deductive powers to this one, we can all sleep a little sounder now, knowing that we are safe from the threat of "pussy anon" posters.
Personally, I didn't know you before, during, or after Straight. I have no idea who the fuck you are or what the fuck you look like. Other than this board, and perhaps passing references to your posts, made during conversations with others from this board, I don't know a goddamn thing about you. For some of the fun you've had to endure at the hands of certain parties who shall remain nameless (in fear that I may invoke their presence, I'm superstitious like that), both on these boards and in your real life, you have my sympathies. For any drama you've brought on yourself, well, you're a big boy and can handle it.
Now I can't claim to be impartial in this teapot full of tempestuousness that you guys seem so determined to keep stirring, after all, I am friends with "Anne Bonny" (and the earlier monker is from the Spanish for "Isle of Bones, Key West, Bobby, not the REM song "Cayahoga", which is about someplace in Ohio. Points off for the mistake, but hey, no one's perfect, right Chief?), I know her ex-husband from Straight, I've met her kids for chrissakes, and I can tell you that she is a really cool person who has aided and abetted me in numerous times of crisis. She did a hell of a job raising two daughters under conditions that made that task even more of a pain in the ass that it normally would be (whatever the hell "normal" child-rearing is). That aside, yeah, maybe she does react in a kneejerk fashion responding to some of your posts, but the self-congratulatory tone of many of your posts do, on occasion, strike one as kind of pompous or arrogant, as if maybe you were somehow cooler or less affected by Straight than others were. I know that that reaction has been expressed by a couple of people other than the suspected anon poster that your oh so incredible Sherlock Holmes-like detective prowess has identified. I'm sure this is a mistaken perception, and I am also sure that whatever static between you and Anne is a result of some of the shit you have said about and to her on this board on previous occasions. Whatever. That shit seems to me to exist mainly inside your head, from my limited understanding of it, and it is possible I am wrong, but it sure smells that way from where I stand.
Anyway, that's my two cents on the topic. It'd be nice if you guys could drop it, but whatever. You're still welcome to get high with me (or not) when I dance on Miller Newton's grave.
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Well, all I can say is thank you for clearing some things up. You have said more about who and what you are in this one post, than in all the posts of yours that I have read in the past 2 years. I congradulate you on that, really. All this time I thought you were someone else that came into the program at the old Morgan Yacht Building around October of '78. My apologys, for thinking that.
There are VAST differences between the Straight Program in the early years, and in the program that ensued after the introduction of Miller Newton. I am really just beginning to see some of the differences and how it affected people. I wanna thank you RTP for sort of blasting open a vault hidden away in my memory.
Get this people......... Helen Petermann, George Ross, Scotty Cassidy, Jim Hartz, Laura Morgan, and several others all pulled away from the Straight Incorporated program following the Board of Directors decision to place Dr. Miller Newton as Executive Director of the Gandy Blvd Facility. All of these people had operated for YEARS with impunity to the various forms of abuse that had gone on in the program. They had set the stage, talked the talk and walked the walk. I was a part of all the shit that made the meat and potatos of the program. What I want to know is what the fuck happened? I really did not have much to do with the Gandy Building other than attend the 7 stepper meetings and even then it got to the point where we all would show up in the parking lot, decide what movie to go see, and split. We all knew Miller was a fucking dick, but what the fuck were we supposed to do about it? We were just young adults, most of us still living at home with our parents. I do remember the one time I came into group after work one day. That building had way shittier ventalation than the ones I had been in. The structure was built to be meant for air-conditioning, and without it, the fucking B.O. was goddamn incredible. I had come there as a favor to the hated William Rollins and Carrie Heapner to help in a rap. I think it was a Wednesday sometime in the fall of 1980. I remember coming into the lobby and then being led into the Staff Office where Carrie, William and I had a brief reunion and discussed what the topic of the rap would be.
William left and went in to Big Group to warm them up for the "special treat" of my being there and Carrie sort of briefed me on how to act and what not to say and shit like that. She looked a lot older without braces, but shit, she still must have only been 16 or so and here she was Junior Staff. She led me into group down the girls side which was on the left of the door if I remember right, and when I got to the front where William was it all hit me. The funk was unbearable. It had been over a year and a half since I had ever been in Big Group. The kids were all clapping and shit, but my head started swimming from the goddamn smell of fear and desperation that permeated from the very walls. I pushed past William and ran for the nearest door holding my hand over my mouth. One of the 5th phase guys at the door used to drop off at my house as a newcomer and since he could see I was ready to throw up, he had enough sense to open the door and stand aside.
I vomitted all over the bushes outside until I was on my knees dry heaving. All I remember of my last vision was seeing Kathy Wynn sitting on front row. The look on her face was too much for me to handle. Two months earlier she had been recently 7 stepped and arguing with her dad at a special "parent's meeting" that Newton had cooked up for us. She had been free, and now she was a caged animal. It was fucked up. I guess now, looking back on it, that she had been one of the first "7 Step Refresher's" in the history of the program. Such a thing would have never happened in my program. If you fucked up, that was it, no more contact with anyone from the program. Since the program was all we knew, most of us Old School people were not willing to risk being left out in the cold with no friends at all. Fucking Miller Newton was all about money. Why else would they take someone back? Holy fucking shit............ Kathy Wynn went on to become staff. So did Kim Hyde, Jim Sailor, one of them Kune pricks, and if I remember correctly, most of them had fucked up and been put back on refreshers. THE NEW STRAIGHT WAS RUN BY A BUNCH OF FUCK-UPS!!!!! Them assholes went through all that shit, fuckin graduated, were stupid enough to get caught fucking up again by their parents, went BACK through the shit a SECOND time around, became staff members because they were too fucking stupid to even flip burgers, and you poor 2nd Generation Straightlings had to endure their wrath. It's all starting to come together now. I hope Wes Fager don't read this because he'll probably have a fuckin brain anuerism! Thank you RTP whoever you are, I don't think you realize how much this means.
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Your memory of these events is impressive, and you seem to have developed a pretty decent writing style, and I think I kind of get the gist of what you are saying regarding Straight pre-Newton. What I find a little unsettling, shall we say, is that you seem to think , and please correct me if I am wrong her, that Straight was a good thing made bad by Miller Newton. I tend to disagree. My thinking on the subject is that Straight was a BAD idea made even worse[/b] by Miller Newton. I think the very model of the "therapeutic community", group culture, stepcult-containing, and involuntary treatment is useless at best, and most likely extremely damaging. Straight was all of these things and much, much worse by the time Miller Newton attended his first Open Meeting. True, he made it even more hellish in his crazed campaign to satisfy his sick needs and sinister desires, but it was fucked-up from the get-go. There is no way in Hell you can persuade me that Straight was anything but abusive and destructive from it's inception. Like I said before, it wasn't a good thing made bad by Miller Newton, it was a bad thing made even worse.
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A good analogy might be how the Nazi party grew out of the generally fucked-up climate in Germany at the time..
In which case Newton would be likened unto Hitler...
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Alright then, now we are getting somewhere. I have stated before, that I finally bought the program hook, line, and sinker. I had no choice people. My family situation was very complicated at best even for those like Woof, who actually knew me and were there at the same time I was.
When I entered the program I was Bob Newman. During open meetings a heavy-set woman with a soft whiny voice, glasses and brown hair would stand up with the microphone and speak to me in a pressured voice and spout out "program speech" to me, then sit down. That was my mother, Florence Newman. Later on in the meeting, a barrel chested man would stand up from another part of the parents side and speak to me in a Military tone of voice and call me things like "Sad Sack" or "Yo-Yo" and berate me for my lack of progress. This man closely resembled the country singer Freddy Fender. This was my birth father, Charles R. Patterson who would usually be flanked by Mike Patterson's red haired mother who resembled Barbara Feldon of the old spy spoof Get Smart, good old agent 99. Hardly anyone noticed this for well over 6 months which brings up a good point about how fucking useless Open Meetings were as a whole.
Seriously, half the group thought I lived with a single mom, and the other half thought that my mom had red hair, my brother had red hair and freckles, looked like Huckleberry Finn, and that I was just a freak of nature or some shit for looking completely different with brown hair and green eyes.
Once Executive Staff realized that my mother was not "program material" and that even having just one newcomer would be shaky at best, it was decided behind my back that I was to go and live with my estranged father whom I had never ever lived with up until that point. My father was sucked into the program because Michael was so desperate to get high all the time that he had started huffing toluene straight outta the chemical barrels from a nearby storage yard. His mother Carole wore the pants in the family, my father was pussy whipped, and when it all came down to it, I'dd be damned if Mike and Scott both got cars after high school and shit and I am left in Largo with a foodstamp mom and nothing. ( My parents divorced in '63 and dad married Mike & Scott's mom in 1974) The whole family situation was like a dirty little secret once my mom got fed up with the bullshit and pulled away from the program shortly after I got Second Phase. My choices were to either live in poverty with no chance for a future, commit a terrible crime, get locked up and finish out as a ward of the State, or go live with my dad and "Get with the Program." I chose to 'get with the program' but I made it as difficult on the Staff as I possibly could. My living with him enabled Staff to fully utilize my father's National Guard training and our home was turned into a fortress where escape was highly unlikely.
We housed an average of 5 newcomers at all times while only having two clients actively in the program. Because of work schedules, we also were a highly valuable weekend drop off located near both US 19 and I-275. This made me pretty much untouchable to punishment by the staff. I did a lot of shit that deserved a refresher while on my program, yet would only get stood up and lightly admonished. Like the one time Dave Crock singled me out in a 4th phase rap for not agressively confronting lower phases and asked me point blank, "What are you, a pussy?"
To which I replied, "I don't think it would be morally right for me to hone in on your job, Dave." Less than 2 weeks later, I was on 5th phase. Go figure. I was only on 5th phase for 27 days, and yes, I was actually interviewed by Helen Petermann for a position on Staff, but I politely turned her down. I hope this covers most of the "Mystery of the 85 Day Jerk." Thanks for reading.
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What I find a little unsettling, shall we say, is that you seem to think , and please correct me if I am wrong her, that Straight was a good thing made bad by Miller Newton. I tend to disagree. My thinking on the subject is that Straight was a BAD idea made even worse[/b] by Miller Newton.
Yeah, I think ya got it...not speaking for 85DJ....but for myself. Straight Inc sucked long before Miller Newton came into the picture. The seeds (no pun) of fear, distrust, hoplessness, hate, anger and rage (to many things to list) were all sown and propagating nicely when he arrived. So when Miller got there, there was already a seething bed of anquish and agony on which he could cultivate his evil. Someone mentioned germany's prime condition which allowed Hitler to take over as he did is a perfect example!
In regard to Bob's reign of 85 days being a "jerk" (which is what folks were called back then) he truley was the most unpredictble, unruley "jerk" at the time. The classic moments when he would yelp out "Guys Medication" and 1/4 of the group would stand and walk to the rear of the room...left staff scratching thier heads and most of us others being "jerks' in gut cramping laughter. There was another time he stood and perfectly, verbatium recieted "Bohemian Rhapsody...no one made an attempt to stop him....everyone was simply stunned.
Bob had a defense mechanisim back then....simply be crazy...consistantly...and no one got close to him.
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My first week,Chris Cassler was returning to 4th Phase after being put back on 3rd phase for copying his newcomer's MI's.This is important to mention because as so many villify(maybe correctly)Chris for his involvement in the Sarasota program,he many ways he was in the same boat we were.Doug Hemminger was on first phase.Liz Cassidy(Gay)was a staff trainee.Dave and Cynthia Crock were both on Senior Staff but not yet married.
Aimee Wright and Mike Murphy were both on Junior Staff.Wanda Minton participated in my intake while on a 3rd phase refresher(talking about a great first impression!)along with Jimmy Cassidy.Interesting note,nobody paid monthly,it was something $800 for the entire program.There wasn't any fifth phase yet.Let's say the group was a lot tougher in those days,many kids being there right out of juvie on court order.
Straight was barely thirteen months old.As an interview with a former trustee board member mentioned,that was the time when Straight changed their "Modus Operandi".Their target market became a lot more upscale,they were admitting kids who were a lot less at risk than the kids in previous months.Many original board members resigned at this time.The program changed from an alternative to JDC and State School for at risk juveniles to a facility designed to exploit the fears and frustrations of naive,sometimes blindfolded, parents of middle class and wealthier families.This was about four months before Woof entered the facility.Helen Peterman was running amok all over that warehouse across from the Milton Roy Building.The average graduate took eight months to finish.This was beginning to change.They were sstill boasting that no graduate from Straight had returned to using.When that changed so did everything.
I guess thay figured that we weren't being brainwashed enough.They created the fifth phase.Fourth phase was lasting an eternity for some kids.Being called a "woodwork fourth phaser" wasn't that uncommon.Undefined goals,biased opinions of unqualified staff and rampant paranoia were the norms.One of my life's biggest regrets are not talking about pulling myself to my parents going into my senior year in high school,because I found out years later that they would have gone along with it.
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I think that maybe this here guest person who so cleverly uses the quote feature, yet can't be bothered to actually write anything original or thought provoking, but just quote my own words and manipulate them into a clever little patchwork piece of shit to have mommy Ginger tack up on the refrigerator otherwise known to all as fornits would benefit from attending some goddamn writing classes.
What? Hey, leave me the fuck out of this. I ain't been among the coolio in crowd around here since... never, prolly always was a bad joke.
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What? Hey, leave me the fuck out of this.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Stupid fucking cunt is finally figuring it out.
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Stupid fucking cunt is finally figuring it out.
Oh what, that we can't stand her droopy-dog bullshit dragging everyone around her down?
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Whoh, hold on Ginger. I simply meant that anon posters who hide behind the feature tack their bullshit on your refrigerator (Fornits) for all to see like a kid who cuts a few pictures from magazines and shit, glues them to construction paper, and acts like they really accomplished something. I am sure this behavior is carried out in kindergartens across the nation on a weekly basis. I was just drawing the comparison is all. I am sorry. I did not know that your name was a registered trademark.
I did'nt take the time to fully go into it, because I did not feel it necessary, yet once again, the all important anonymous feature has turned a serious thread that has actually brought back some really cool people from obscurity into yet another overflowing toilet.
In a kindergarten class, there are many children who actually have gifted talent, but if I were a child, and saw that a heartfelt drawing of mine had to take a backseat to manipulative little assholes who wanna be teachers pet, I would never pick up a fuckin crayon ever again. There is that plain enough?
In closing, I would like to state the personal observation that the anonymous feature has only led to ONE new poster since November of 2006. Correct me if I am wrong........ PLEASE!!!, yet it has allowed for countless backstabbing, demeaning, pussyass, threatening and degrading comments to go unchecked.
I have a solution. It is pretty bizarre, but piss me off and that's what ya get. If someone wants to be anonymous, fine, but the board should assign their punk ass a goddamn Avatar, same as the rest of us. By the board assigning a random avatar, the rest of us would at least have a fleeting chance to tell where some of this shit is coming from, when it is of a repetative nature and it would cut down on the disruptiveness in general.
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Hmm, anons.. to be or not to be.. I don't know.. whatever.
Perhaps start a thread on Web Forum Hosting to address that? This would at least preserve what's left of this thread....
PS I've gotta wonder who'd post something like that about Ginger...
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In closing, I would like to state the personal observation that the anonymous feature has only led to ONE new poster since November of 2006. Correct me if I am wrong........ PLEASE!!!, yet it has allowed for countless backstabbing, demeaning, pussyass, threatening and degrading comments to go unchecked.
Heeeeyyy.... In defense of Anons, I should say that I posted for MONTHS before I took the leap to avatar. The option of posting as Anon is super important in the healing process. For myself, I had a lot of paranoia to get over. Not everyone is up to being ID'd, so to speak, as a "bonafide entity". Some people are still sorting out where they stand vis-a-vie their experiences, and would prefer to do that out of the limelight.
Sure, you get a lot of slag. But it gets drowned out, hopefully, by the real deal. And I can't help but get the impression that no small amount of the back-stabbing commentary from the peanut gallery is actually an attempt to get their worst fears and personal pain validated from those stronger than they in this point in time...
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Hey thanks, Ursus. That's sort of my thinking on it. No matter how detached and objective you may try to be, there's power in a name. That's why trolling is so much fun sometimes.
Bob, sorry but I'm with the peanut gallery on this one. I only have two choices in this; I can either control the conversation by trying (and failing sometimes) to prevent certain types of content or keep certain types of people out or I can not try to control it at all, beyond whatever influence I might have in discussion, just like everybody else.
Asif we all haven't had this conversation a million fucking times. Bob, sometimes you're the biggest, smelliest, most flatulent asshole in the room. Sometimes I get pms or emails from people insisting that somebody (oh who, who, somebody, you see) ought to reel you in, get you to have a seat and shut the fuck up. Should I do that? No? You want your freedom and you figgure anybody who can't let it roll off is just a pussy crying for mommy's protection?
Yeah, me too.
We're not in group anymore, there is no coc, no 5th phaser is going to write you up, you can cry all you want for protection from the mean ol'e bad ol'e anon boogiemen. In fact, I think you should write to the moderator of this here particular forum and complain loudly, be persistent and insistent and demand protection from the snotty little anon bastards!
El Niño, heh, yeah... wonder who I've gone and pissed off now? Oh well, I hope they're more entertaining than litigious. I miss Nazi sometimes.
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I dont think it really matters if someone posts anon or not....I mean, I just treat them all as the same person if the start sniping.
Seriously, there are people who've been posting here for YEARS under any certain name and avatar and I couldnt give you the first clue who these people REALLY are. I mean, I still get PM's asking me who I am and I use my real name, not to mention its been posted throughout this place repeatedly over time. I know who Ginger is, I know who Morli is, and RTP....and now 85...thats about it, yet lots of other people I discuss things with use a consistent name and avatar.
I dont think you should let it bug you so much about anon posters, a funny little picture doesnt add any credibility to a persons rantings against you, other than you can identify their rantings more readily....it doesnt mean you are gonna agree with them more or less or accept them as legitimate. You wouldnt take it any less personally if the person was identifiable, ya dig?
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Too bad you didn't start a thread on web forum hosting like I suggested, 85DJ.. :lol:
Anyhow, these days it's easier to log in than to post anon (b/c of the little capcha thing).
Yeah, I agree.. credibility...identity.. healing process.. paranoia... blah blah blah..lol.
Looks like the guests are here to stay..
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Thanks guys, and Carmel, you are right, I really do let the occasional 'guest' get on my nerves a little too much. I also get into what is written in here so much that I forget that I really do have phone numbers of people, and that there are such places such as Yahoo Messenger and myspace.com that can bring many of us much closer together and not feel compelled to talk about "the program" so much.
I even have my own URL for myspace................I named it after a smart ass profile that got rejected by a site called U-date. My myspace site is http://www.myspace.com/bobnferpiranhas (http://www.myspace.com/bobnferpiranhas)
and I'll leave it at that, lest I offend somebody for being too "commercial."