Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 26, 2007, 10:26:23 AM
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You know what I am talking about, don't you?
:question: :question: :question: :question: :question: :question:
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It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).
This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.
The reason why foreigners take interest-- I can only speak for myself. I find this industry, and the basic ideas on which it is based (described above), so disgusting, so appalling, so contrary to the natural instincts of humans (parents protecting their children from harm, society protecting its own young, etc.), that I can't help but keep an eye on this forum and the direction this industry, and American society, is taking. Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.
I was in a state of shock for a few weeks after reading that Guardian article, and founding out about this industry, back in 2003. I was stunned that anyone would do this to a child. I hope for these children's sake that they'll be able to pick up the pieces and live normal lives.
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IMHO Europe learned its lesson from the Nazis, and the Soviets a lot better than us merikans did.
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A lot of the stuff we Danes have to endure in our daily life are comming from the States.
Just today a police chief calls for longer terms to youth with non-danish ethnic background, when they commit a crime.
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-5947694.html (http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-5947694.html) (Sorry the news are in Danish, but after the Cartoon crisis we dont translate our news in order to avoid insulting the rest of the world.)
Our Navy - very unemployed after the downfall of eastern europe and the failure of a lot of muslim countries to gather a fleet which we could sink - has asked for permission to create a program like
Eagle academy http://www.pbso.org/eagleacademy/ (http://www.pbso.org/eagleacademy/) It was even features in a Danish magazine this week.
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-5317135.html (http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-5317135.html) (About the program in Danish targeted for youth and young adults 16-24 years of age with misdemeanours.)
Where did they get it from? Of course from the States with their imbalance in the prison pobulation regarding races and the states are the father of boot camps.
So why are we interested? We want to protect our culture and keep our superiority regarding rehabilitate delinquents back to society intact.
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They secretly wished they lived in the states.
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It wouldn't annoy me as much in a shitty third world backwoods nowhere (like Germany) but frankly America ought to know better and frankly it's a huge disappointment.
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It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).
This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.
The reason why foreigners take interest-- I can only speak for myself. I find this industry, and the basic ideas on which it is based (described above), so disgusting, so appalling, so contrary to the natural instincts of humans (parents protecting their children from harm, society protecting its own young, etc.), that I can't help but keep an eye on this forum and the direction this industry, and American society, is taking. Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.
I was in a state of shock for a few weeks after reading that Guardian article, and founding out about this industry, back in 2003. I was stunned that anyone would do this to a child. I hope for these children's sake that they'll be able to pick up the pieces and live normal lives.
Does America really look that bad to outsiders?
Interesting...sometimes I think programs help divide this country even more so. Because some people come out of programs saying it saved their life and go on saying that forever. While others are shaken by the traumatizing experience, and really see it for what it is and give it thought afterwards. I guess you are one of those lucky people who see shit for what it really is. A lot of people here fall in love with the wrapper, and never open the present.
Mexico, Samoa, Costa Rica, Czech Republic.. some of the countries who investigated and shut down WWASPS programs. Finally someone arrested Randall Hinton.. so there's progress, albeit at a snails pace.
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Face it, fuckheads- bombs are about the only solution to this ever-proliferating problem. :skull:
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It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).
This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.
The reason why foreigners take interest-- I can only speak for myself. I find this industry, and the basic ideas on which it is based (described above), so disgusting, so appalling, so contrary to the natural instincts of humans (parents protecting their children from harm, society protecting its own young, etc.), that I can't help but keep an eye on this forum and the direction this industry, and American society, is taking. Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.
I was in a state of shock for a few weeks after reading that Guardian article, and founding out about this industry, back in 2003. I was stunned that anyone would do this to a child. I hope for these children's sake that they'll be able to pick up the pieces and live normal lives.
Does America really look that bad to outsiders?
Interesting...sometimes I think programs help divide this country even more so. Because some people come out of programs saying it saved their life and go on saying that forever. While others are shaken by the traumatizing experience, and really see it for what it is and give it thought afterwards. I guess you are one of those lucky people who see shit for what it really is. A lot of people here fall in love with the wrapper, and never open the present.
Mexico, Samoa, Costa Rica, Czech Republic.. some of the countries who investigated and shut down WWASPS programs. Finally someone arrested Randall Hinton.. so there's progress, albeit at a snails pace.
I'll tell you this, I'm the most americanophile person that I know and at the moment I find it hard to defend your government, a lot of your laws and a good many of your social and political institutions.
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Well nobody likes our government... nobody. America is a culture, and that culture includes a very anti govt attitude, even though cognitive dissonance reigns these days and people seek help from the govt. Katrina helped visualize the effectiveness of the government for most people though. That and watching a city being left in ruin, while a president announces a marshall socialist rebuilding plan for a country on the other side of the world, that will be burned down again anyways. Americans dont disagree so much with you about the govt. But watch around election time now.. the brainwashing begins and everyone becomes political and regurgitates the talking points they heard on TV, and fight over stupid social issues and the nation gets divided hardcore once again..terrify, divide and conquer.
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It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).
This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.
The reason why foreigners take interest-- I can only speak for myself. I find this industry, and the basic ideas on which it is based (described above), so disgusting, so appalling, so contrary to the natural instincts of humans (parents protecting their children from harm, society protecting its own young, etc.), that I can't help but keep an eye on this forum and the direction this industry, and American society, is taking. Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.
I was in a state of shock for a few weeks after reading that Guardian article, and founding out about this industry, back in 2003. I was stunned that anyone would do this to a child. I hope for these children's sake that they'll be able to pick up the pieces and live normal lives.
Does America really look that bad to outsiders?
Interesting...sometimes I think programs help divide this country even more so. Because some people come out of programs saying it saved their life and go on saying that forever. While others are shaken by the traumatizing experience, and really see it for what it is and give it thought afterwards. I guess you are one of those lucky people who see shit for what it really is. A lot of people here fall in love with the wrapper, and never open the present.
Mexico, Samoa, Costa Rica, Czech Republic.. some of the countries who investigated and shut down WWASPS programs. Finally someone arrested Randall Hinton.. so there's progress, albeit at a snails pace.
America is composed of so many sub-cultures, so many people and places and ways of life, I can't call it all bad... what I do find bad about all of this is that America is disconnected from the outside world in so many ways (a friend of mine calls it the "rat in a cage phenomenon"-- you trap a bunch of rats in a cage, keep 'em there for a long time w/o much contact with the outside world, and they eventually go crazy). Its people are so cut off from outside influence, it's like you guys are rotting in your own shit sometimes.
The wrapper is only attractive to those who either a. graduated from (and bought into) one of these programs; b. people who, deep inside, believe in the ideas this industry is based on, the Great American Power Show. (Most) Americans seem to love this shit.
As for the progress... I hope you are right. I really, really hope you're right.
(this post turned out to be somewhat confused, hope you get my point. I am not writing this in an attempt to bash the US or anything-- just writing what I'm thinking when I look thru all this mess).
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I was just curious how this place looked to those from an outside perspective... if you hate america and everything it stands for thats okay with me.. i find it very enlightening and entertaining as well to read other peoples perspectives about this country. helps me realize sometimes of my own programming that i never even knew existed.
to be honest i am surprised that anyone outside the US even speaks American.. I thought you all spok-e french or arabic or something? :wink:
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It seems to me that (most) Americans agree with, and support, the ideas that lie in the basis of this industry: children need to be "put in their place", they need to be "broken down and re-built", etc. Americans love the whole power show, the drill sergeants w/ their Smoky the Bear hats, the yelling, "my way or the highway", etc. (me, I could never understand it-- like the way they make their military's basic training revolve around a show of power and control, not about actual combat-related training).
I think that only a small minority of American parents agree with or practice the drill-sergeant mentality and the idea that children need to be "put in their place" or "broken down and re-built." If anything, the industry relies on the much higher percentage of American parents who are overly protective, unable or unwilling to let their children grow up and be independent, who are excessively worried and fearful about the future consequences of their child's behaviors and attitudes when those behaviors and attitudes are so different from the parents' own.
There is a lot of pressure for conformity to social and cultural norms. Consider that this is a society in which beauty, money, power, fame, youthfulness and accumulation of material possessions are the "prize" to be relentlessly pursued, as our media remind us many times every day. That is a huge expectation and burden to put on young people (or adults, for that matter). Some parents see "problems" that need to be "fixed" when their child rejects those values and makes choices that are inconsistent with the pursuit of that American Dream.
This industry is based on American culture. That is why most Americans-- those who are ignorant of the fact that many of these programs are in fact cults-- support the general idea of children getting locked up, humiliated, and broken down.
Very very few Americans are even aware that these programs exist. Among the few who are aware, even fewer believe the reality of how these places operate and what they do to kids. American parents don't willingly spend these huge sums of money to have their kids punished or abused -- they do it because they believe their child will come out of it healthier and better prepared to pursue that American Dream that we are all brainwashed into believing we need and should desire.
The 'cult' aspect of many (most) of these programs, and the fact that Americans in particular get sucked into them is not too surprising. Americans have a 400 year history with cults, beginning with a group of deviants that held socially unacceptable religious beliefs and were basically kicked out of the civilized countries of Europe. Ever since then, cults have had a unique place in the collective American psyche. Not entirely viewed positively -- especially not when they were labeled as "cults" -- but not entirely shunned or viewed negatively either. There has historically been a certain acceptance and understanding in the U.S. of the notion that a group of people could go off together to a new place that is outside the mainstream society, so they could live as they wanted to live without the government or others telling them what to do.
Watching American society these days is like watching a massive, slow-motion auto crash. A society turning against its own young citizens-- that is a true sign of sickness, and the beginning of the end, in my opinion.
People both inside and outside the U.S. get a very distorted, filtered view of what goes on in this country. There are so many diverse sub-cultures and people of all races, religions and nationalities that it's really difficult to even define what is "American society" -- except of course for that media definition about the pursuit of money, beauty, fame, etc. I don't believe that we as a society are turning against our young people, and I think that as the bright light of the truth shines more and more on these programs, good old-fashioned American outrage at injustice will be incited and the programs will be very much on the defensive.
The biggest auto crashes (I prefer "train wrecks") are in our aggressive foreign policy and in the polarization between the right & left (or more correctly, between the right and 'everyone else'). Not only do the majority of Americans disapprove of Bush's policies, but nearly a third of all Americans wish the Bush presidency would simply end right now. That's a healthy sign that we are moving in the right direction. I wouldn't write us off just yet...
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I was just curious how this place looked to those from an outside perspective... if you hate america and everything it stands for thats okay with me.. i find it very enlightening and entertaining as well to read other peoples perspectives about this country. helps me realize sometimes of my own programming that i never even knew existed.
to be honest i am surprised that anyone outside the US even speaks American.. I thought you all spok-e french or arabic or something? :wink:
I don't hate America. If anything, I'm curious about it. I'm trying to figure it out, I guess...
As for speaking American-- how could I speak anything else? the TV here is saturated w/ shows imported from the US. I spent a lot of my childhood watching Ricki Lake and Married with Children :D
I don't speak French (I hate that little shitty country :evil: ), and I only speak fundamental Arabic, like most people here.
I find these conversation enlightening, too. :)
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70sPunkRebel-- thanks for this post. You raise a lot of very good points I didn't think about. And I hope that America is making moves in the right direction.
It's a pretty amazing duality. On one hand, there's this immense pressure to conform and achieve-- and all this coming from a culture which historically respects people's right to choose their own destiny.
I'm going to have to do a lot more thinking and reading about this one.
As for your foreign policy-- I think the basic problem is a complete lack of understanding of ME culture and ways of thinking. I hope I'm wrong on this one.
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Yes, it is an Islamic war against all who are not a member of that "religion", just look at every fucking conflict around the world, almost every one is Muslim related, be it the WTC, Pentagon, the slaughter of Sudanese Christians, the slaughter of Russian schoolchildren, etc. It is amazing (or maybe not considering our politicians only care about enriching themselves and taxing us to death) we still let this murderous trash into the U.S. and don't routinely kill these 7th-century goat fuckers, sew pigskins to, and stuff pork products in the mouths of their terrorist corpses and leave these displays in front every mosque worldwide. No response from the "peaceful", "true practicioners" of this group, a lame, pathetic letter to the editor once in a blue moon. Where have the marches with millions of U.S. muslims protesting against their terroristic brethren? Fat chance, the majority (>50%) of these people are involved in, support and/or fund terror worldwide.
If you think I'm angry, you're damn right, if someone is threatening you and your family you take action, fuck trying to reason with them. I was at 9/11 and also there for the bombing in '93 - you don't play with these people, just fucking smash them in the mouth and kick in their heads as that is all they understand.
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American parents don't willingly spend these huge sums of money to have their kids punished or abused -- they do it because they believe their child will come out of it healthier and better prepared to pursue that American Dream that we are all brainwashed into believing we need and should desire.
I think it's worse than that. I think "the industry", meaning the parents involved, the companies and staff, and even the students who graduate and unknowingly market and trumpet the success of such programs. I think that group of people we call the troubled teen industry, is shaping the way we view coercion, abuse and punishment toward teenagers. In the early nineties boot camps were all the rage, scared straight mentality for short periods of time to "shock" the kids back into shape. That was then deemed "unenlightened" by the newly crowned intellectuals of this industry, and a new path is being forged, which includes a lot more mind fucking and psychological coercion, and seemingly less physical abuse. So called advocates seek to purge the visible abuse from the system, to asuage their own disgust and guilt. But what these people don't seem to understand, is the unseen torture going on in the minds and psyches of the kids who enter this god forsaken industry. It's not the unnecessary restraints, fights, and other physical assaults I remember from my days being locked away, it's the destruction of my old self. That teenager who looked upon the world with wide eyes of conquering ability, unshaken with all the potential and drive and creativity. Only to be told that's no good, and have it slowly stripped away, until all I could say was how grateful I was to my parents and the program for saving my life from my old self. What parents view as emotional outbursts when their kid sees them is not because they miss them and out of love, well it is sort of. It's the sight of anyone from the goddamn real world, with the power to get you out. You want a groveling, subserviant, apologetic kid, sure.. put them in a horribly stressful psychologically torturing environment. Watch as the kids hair falls out, their sexual desires cease to exist, girls stop having their periods, people start pulling their hair out, cutting themselves, taking anger out on others , suicide or embracing the program to find some level of comfort and acceptance from the authority figures you beat you down relentlessly... just because you hold back their arm doesn't mean they still can't do damage.
My point is this.... What parents now view as "healthy" is in fact diseased. What programs see as "success" translates to failure in real life relationships. What program supporters see as "therapy" is psychologically damaging coercion that takes a lifetime to sort out. It's pretty easy to open up someone's head and fuck around, it's a whole lot harder to put it all back together. This is a much bigger problem than parents being misled.
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Yes, it is an Islamic war against all who are not a member of that "religion", just look at every fucking conflict around the world, almost every one is Muslim related, be it the WTC, Pentagon, the slaughter of Sudanese Christians, the slaughter of Russian schoolchildren, etc. It is amazing (or maybe not considering our politicians only care about enriching themselves and taxing us to death) we still let this murderous trash into the U.S. and don't routinely kill these 7th-century goat fuckers, sew pigskins to, and stuff pork products in the mouths of their terrorist corpses and leave these displays in front every mosque worldwide. No response from the "peaceful", "true practicioners" of this group, a lame, pathetic letter to the editor once in a blue moon. Where have the marches with millions of U.S. muslims protesting against their terroristic brethren? Fat chance, the majority (>50%) of these people are involved in, support and/or fund terror worldwide.
If you think I'm angry, you're damn right, if someone is threatening you and your family you take action, fuck trying to reason with them. I was at 9/11 and also there for the bombing in '93 - you don't play with these people, just fucking smash them in the mouth and kick in their heads as that is all they understand.
You're preaching to the choir, brother. My country has been fighting these fuckups ever since they declared war on us back in 1948.
What I'm trying to say with the "ME culture" comment is that the US seems blind to any Muslim aggression that goes on. The PC culture has completely paralyzed them.
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My point is this.... What parents now view as "healthy" is in fact diseased. What programs see as "success" translates to failure in real life relationships. What program supporters see as "therapy" is psychologically damaging coercion that takes a lifetime to sort out. It's pretty easy to open up someone's head and fuck around, it's a whole lot harder to put it all back together. This is a much bigger problem than parents being misled.
I completely agree. My point about parents being misled was simply that they are conned into believing that the program will help, not hurt their kid. I think most of them overlook the fundamental diseased thinking from which it all starts -- the notion that "I want my kid to be the way I want him to be, not the way he wants to be." But they don't willingly put their kid in a program with the expectation that he will come out more damaged than when he went in.
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You're preaching to the choir, brother. My country has been fighting these fuckups ever since they declared war on us back in 1948.
What I'm trying to say with the "ME culture" comment is that the US seems blind to any Muslim aggression that goes on. The PC culture has completely paralyzed them.
Yeah. ::puke::
Fucking sick how most of us have been "guilted" into feeling like 9/11 was our fault. Maybe it was in some ways, so the fuck what, does that warrant us being a panty-waist guilt-ridden bunch of PUSSIES about it now? NO, it doesn't! Bin Laden and his cronies should have been rounded up and then beheaded on national television for our viewing pleasure right after that fucking happened!! But thanks to Bush's scandalousness, Bin Laden and his entire family walked. No one was ever interrogated about anything!!
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(http://http://www.offshorenet.com/blog/archives/images/oil-money94.jpg)
Those poor impoverished arabs forced to turn to violence because they don't have access to western schooling, jobs and literature. Let's bomb them with Shakespeare and Ipods and that will end terrorism! :roll:
(this is the prevailing wisdom of the foreign policy elites it would seem)
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My point is this.... What parents now view as "healthy" is in fact diseased. What programs see as "success" translates to failure in real life relationships. What program supporters see as "therapy" is psychologically damaging coercion that takes a lifetime to sort out. It's pretty easy to open up someone's head and fuck around, it's a whole lot harder to put it all back together. This is a much bigger problem than parents being misled.
I completely agree. My point about parents being misled was simply that they are conned into believing that the program will help, not hurt their kid. I think most of them overlook the fundamental diseased thinking from which it all starts -- the notion that "I want my kid to be the way I want him to be, not the way he wants to be." But they don't willingly put their kid in a program with the expectation that he will come out more damaged than when he went in.
Maybe it's just me, but I've never seen a parent post here and say "OMG I am SO disgusted at the thought of coercive therapy, it is inconsistent with a free society, and will do long term damage to my kid!". What I do see parents saying is how they are horrified by the tales of physical abuse, sexual abuse, isolation, seminars, peer vs peer manipulation.
Now what if a wilderness or residential program was EXACTLY how it was described in it's marketing literature? Would that make it any more legitimate? Still run by the same unqualified people, still using the same unproven methods of "therapy"?
I think you are right, parents are SURPRISED at the tales of abuse, torture, isolation and the violence associated with private imprisonment. But, they are not duped into the program as described, which in itself should be setting off alarm bells.
I guess I am just concerned that once "the advocates" are satisfied that visible abuse is gone, that will be it. Case closed. Nobody seems to address the fact that it's all bullshit. If I started a Aryan Summer camp based on Nazi ideology, I would get in deep shit and a lot of criticism. So why not private prison camps based on North Korean Communist coercive ideology? Why is there such a disconnect from the REAL discussion most times?
I am not harping on you specifically.. just typing my thoughts.. puff here and there you know how it is.
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You know what, I have to take back something. Parents are not surprised at isolation, seminars and peer vs peer. Because those are all explained int he program literature. They aren't familiar with these terms, which we use in reality. They know words like "special needs", "emotional growth seminars", and "positive peer culture with accountability". It's not that they are fooled, the truth is there, plain to see in black and white for any parent thinking about using this service. They choose to believe what they want, and then act surprised. I say bullshit. Let's see a few parents sued for wrongful imprisonment and see how many parents throw kids in private prisons without research.
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Let's see a few parents sued for wrongful imprisonment and see how many parents throw kids in private prisons without research.
::nod:: ::rocker:: ::fuckoff:: :tup:
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You know what, I have to take back something. Parents are not surprised at isolation, seminars and peer vs peer. Because those are all explained int he program literature. They aren't familiar with these terms, which we use in reality. They know words like "special needs", "emotional growth seminars", and "positive peer culture with accountability". It's not that they are fooled, the truth is there, plain to see in black and white for any parent thinking about using this service. They choose to believe what they want, and then act surprised. I say bullshit. Let's see a few parents sued for wrongful imprisonment and see how many parents throw kids in private prisons without research.
The program literature is capable of deceiving anyone in a hurry that does not engage some pretty subtle critical reading skills. Most parents really don't know what an "emotional growth seminar" is. It just sounds like a good thing. They don't really understand that a "positive peer culture with accountability" translates into group consequences and child led verbal confrontations which include shouting obsenities, and name calling. I sincerely doubt most parents would translate "structure" to "total control" as in milieu control, or that "removing a child from his comfort zone" means "breaking the child's will."
The websites and literature describe these programs as being gentle and loving and give the appearance that your child will actually enjoy being there. Once the truth comes out, parents are informed of the "necessity" of the harshness and how their children both need and deserve to be treated this way.
The parents are sucked into it, step-by-step. Some see it and avoid the programs. Some see it later and pull their children out. Some buy into the cult-like thinking that only the program can save their child's life.
As detestable and useless as boot camps are, they are honest about their intentions.
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The websites and literature describe these programs as being gentle and loving and give the appearance that your child will actually enjoy being there. Once the truth comes out, parents are informed of the "necessity" of the harshness and how their children both need and deserve to be treated this way.
The parents are sucked into it, step-by-step. Some see it and avoid the programs. Some see it later and pull their children out. Some buy into the cult-like thinking that only the program can save their child's life.
As detestable and useless as boot camps are, they are honest about their intentions.
I would have to disagree a little there Ant. When I first stumbled across this whole dirty industry one thing that stuck out like a sore thumb was how mean spirited many of even the kinder, gentler places seemed. So many used words like entitled and manipulative that to me they seemed designed to be both punitive as well as "therapeudic". I had imagined that the idea at least of a wilderness camp was a noble one and thhat the idea was to give confidence from achievement until website after website promoted the idea that this was about making the young person see the error of their ways. I had never seen such an approach or philosophy toward youth mental health, substance abuse or social issues. While wwasp was at the extreme end, they all shared the idea that the problems young people face were about the fact that the kids were not accountable for their own actions and that they were an immediate danger to themselves and the community. It also shocked me that many of the "nicer" places encouraged having a kid escorted by strangers. It struck me as inhumane and unhelpful.
What they seemed to be appealing to was the thought that a lot of normal parents probably have when their kid has done something to really piss them off which is anlong the lines of "Ill show the little bastard". If you convince someone that this line of thought is threapeudic then they dont have to calm down and think of other options.
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Oz Girl?
It's spelled Therapeutic.
(sorry, that one was really getting on my nerves...)
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I know! I've seen LAWYERS misspell this word; it's truly appalling! Says a lot for our universities.
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Blame their parents for buying hooked on phonics... remember that fucking commercial?
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Blame their parents for buying hooked on phonics... remember that fucking commercial?
Hmm... yeah, I think so.
So that's a phuqued method of teaching, I take it... very well.
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Hoo needs too spel rite wen yu kan gust sawund it owt?
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Hoo needs too spel rite wen yu kan gust sawund it owt?
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Yes, it is an Islamic war against all who are not a member of that "religion", just look at every fucking conflict around the world, almost every one is Muslim related, be it the WTC, Pentagon, the slaughter of Sudanese Christians, the slaughter of Russian schoolchildren, etc. It is amazing (or maybe not considering our politicians only care about enriching themselves and taxing us to death) we still let this murderous trash into the U.S. and don't routinely kill these 7th-century goat fuckers, sew pigskins to, and stuff pork products in the mouths of their terrorist corpses and leave these displays in front every mosque worldwide. No response from the "peaceful", "true practicioners" of this group, a lame, pathetic letter to the editor once in a blue moon. Where have the marches with millions of U.S. muslims protesting against their terroristic brethren? Fat chance, the majority (>50%) of these people are involved in, support and/or fund terror worldwide.
If you think I'm angry, you're damn right, if someone is threatening you and your family you take action, fuck trying to reason with them. I was at 9/11 and also there for the bombing in '93 - you don't play with these people, just fucking smash them in the mouth and kick in their heads as that is all they understand.
You're preaching to the choir, brother. My country has been fighting these fuckups ever since they declared war on us back in 1948.
What I'm trying to say with the "ME culture" comment is that the US seems blind to any Muslim aggression that goes on. The PC culture has completely paralyzed them.
You both should enjoy this one then..
Muslims urged to refuse 'un-Islamic' vaccinations
By Ruth Elkins
Published: 28 January 2007
A leading Islamic doctor is urging British Muslims not to vaccinate their children against diseases such as measles, mumps, and rubella because they contain substances making them unlawful for Muslims to take.
Dr Abdul Majid Katme, head of the Islamic Medical Association, says almost all vaccines contain un-Islamic "haram" derivatives of animal or human tissue, and that Muslim parents are better off letting childrens' immune systems develop on their own.
Dr Katme, an NHS psychiatrist, said: "If you breastfeed your child for two years - as the Koran says - and you eat Koranic food like olives and black seed, and you do ablution each time you pray, then you will have a strong defence system."
The Department of Health and the British Medical Association have criticised Dr Katme, saying his suggestions are likely to increase infection rates of children in Muslim communities. Other Muslim groups have also condemned the suggestion.
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health ... 193012.ece (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article2193012.ece)
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I would have to disagree a little there Ant. When I first stumbled across this whole dirty industry one thing that stuck out like a sore thumb was how mean spirited many of even the kinder, gentler places seemed. So many used words like entitled and manipulative that to me they seemed designed to be both punitive as well as "therapeudic". I had imagined that the idea at least of a wilderness camp was a noble one and thhat the idea was to give confidence from achievement until website after website promoted the idea that this was about making the young person see the error of their ways. I had never seen such an approach or philosophy toward youth mental health, substance abuse or social issues. While wwasp was at the extreme end, they all shared the idea that the problems young people face were about the fact that the kids were not accountable for their own actions and that they were an immediate danger to themselves and the community. It also shocked me that many of the "nicer" places encouraged having a kid escorted by strangers. It struck me as inhumane and unhelpful.
What they seemed to be appealing to was the thought that a lot of normal parents probably have when their kid has done something to really piss them off which is anlong the lines of "Ill show the little bastard". If you convince someone that this line of thought is threapeudic then they dont have to calm down and think of other options.
You give parents more credit than I do. I was drawn to Fornit's after being alarmed at what I found on program websites. I still think they couch the program in misleading terms. Parents in a panic don't see through the loaded language and are sold a package without realizing exactly what it is they are buying into. Then, they are groomed into accepting it.
I like to believe that if most parents actually saw their child being restained, in isolation, or during a confrontational group session, they would immediately pull their kid out.
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I like to believe that if most parents actually saw their child being restained, in isolation, or during a confrontational group session, they would immediately pull their kid out.
Of course we'd like to think so, but this isn't always the case.
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II like to believe that if most parents actually saw their child being restained, in isolation, or during a confrontational group session, they would immediately pull their kid out.
i am with you there. But i would also like to believe that people dont make their pregnant adolescent daughter homeless either! Having said that the websites dont often tell the whole story but they certianly give some pretty big clues
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you can be such an utter twat TSW, seriously man get some boundaries ya know!