Here's what we know: We know that "What the #$*! Do We Know!?" is a tedious, faux-philosophical waste of time. We know it is brimming with New Age ideas that violate the laws of both physics and common sense. We know that the filmmakers, William Arntz, Betsy Chasse and Mark Vicente, are practitioners of a quasi-religion called the Ramtha School of Englightenment and that the film, colloquially known as "What the Bleep," is basically a commercial for Ramtha.
I don't have a problem with being proselytized, as long as I know that's what's going on. But the film doesn't tell us Arntz and friends' background. We are left to our own devices to discover their true agenda.
Not that it matters, really. The film is mind-numblingly pretentious and dull anyway. Knowing its background merely adds the extra sin of being distasteful.
A series of talking heads -- none of whose names or credentials are given until the very end, when we discover one of them is just a chiropractor -- spout nonsense on the order of, "Have you ever seen yourself through the eyes of someone else that you have become?" (Answer: No. Can I have some more marijuana, please?) Or this one: "If you believe with every rudiment of your being that you will walk on water, will you walk on water? Yes." (Correct answer: No.)
The film purports to be about quantum physics, "the physics of possibilities." It suggests that perhaps all realities exist simultaneously, and that it is within our power to determine which one we live in. It suggests maybe the world we know is fake and we just have to get out of it to see what it really is, which I'd already considered, because, you know, I saw "The Matrix."
Mostly there are the talking heads that spew mumbo-jumbo, but there is also a fictionalized story about a deaf woman named Amanda (Marlee Matlin) who encounters people who tell her how to explore her realities. She also encounters her roommate Jennifer (Elaine Hendrix), who is possibly the most chirpy, annoying character in any film this year. The acting in general, in fact, is quite bad throughout the film -- the result, I suppose, of having three directors with no directing experience trying to make actors say preposterous things.
If quantum physics is your thing, then perhaps "What the Bleep" has some ideas that will get you thinking. But perhaps not, too. Did I mention it's flat, dull and pompous? What the bleep, guys? Seriously, what the bleep?
Grade: D
Rated PG-13, some very brief sexuality, a little profanity
1 hr., 51 min.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on January 19, 2007, 01:37:46 PM
Directed by Mark Vicente, Betsy Chasse, and William Arntz. Lord of the Wind Films, 2004.
Skeptical Inquirer/September 2004 Reviewed by Eric Scerri
People who espouse New Age philosophies are not generally known for their knowledge of modern science or their respect for critical thinking. Ironically enough, though, when it comes to quantum mechanics, everything seems to change, and they embrace it wholeheartedly. Given half a chance, many of them have something to say on the subject. But what New Agers really seem to like about quantum mechanics is all those alleged bizarre effects that they mistakenly believe can be appropriated to support their views on the nature of reality and the cosmos.
It therefore comes as no surprise that the makers of a recent New Age movie making its way across the country decided to inject a massive dose of quantum mechanics into the film's storyline. What the #$*! Do We Know!? is packing them in. Many people who have seen the movie are already claiming that it has changed their lives. I tried to go to one of the first screenings in Los Angeles and was turned away because it was sold out. So what is this movie that uses quantum mechanics to change people's lives?
Filmed largely in Portland, the movie is a hodgepodge of all kinds of crackpot nonsense dressed up as modern science. The film oscillates between interviews with a number of so-called experts (especially in physics) and a rather flimsy storyline involving a deaf woman, played by Marlee Matlin, who is being encouraged to wake up and see life's full potential. A young basketball player who has taken it upon himself to enlighten her repeatedly asks her how far down the rabbit hole she wants to go.
An examination of the film's pedigree helps explain its peculiar approach. The three directors are students of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment in Yelm, Washington, which is run by New Age channeller J.Z. Knight. Knight claims to channel a 35,000-year-old warrior from ancient Lemuria named Ramtha (aka "The Enlightened One"), who dispenses wisdom through her. Ramtha's followers are said to include many people from the entertainment industry, such as actors Linda Evans, Don Johnson, Shirley MacLaine, and Richard Chamberlain. Knight herself appears in the film as one of the talking heads, and even holds forth on the subject of quantum mechanics.
Knight, who's been channeling her prehistoric alter ego since the 1970s, is paid as much as $1,500 by those who attend retreats held at her school.
I want to focus a little on the science, because this is where I believe the film is at its most disingenuous. Each of the physicists interviewed trots out a sound bite or two about how quantum mechanics supposedly shows that objects can be in two places at once, that matter is mostly empty space, or that all parts of the universe are deeply interconnected. The existence of a reality that's independent from the human mind as usually understood by scientists, or indeed by any rational person, is repeatedly assaulted to the point of being mocked. In addition, we are assured that when Columbus arrived on the shores of the Americas, the natives could not actually see his ships because it was beyond their paradigm of what could exist.
The fact that the science is being distorted and sensationalized here is not at all surprising. What puzzles me the most is that by making quantum mechanics the heart of the movie, the filmmakers have fallen prey to a crude form of reductionism which is usually regarded as the enemy of New Age ways of thinking. By focusing so much on basic physics, the filmmakers do not seem to realize that they are shooting themselves in the foot. One moment they talk about all kinds of emergent phenomena, such as global consciousness, that go far beyond the reductionist worldview. The next moment they seem to suggest that the physics of fundamental particles explains human behavior! Even if we grant that quantum mechanics tells us that particles can be at two places at once-which, of course, it does not-how can one then assume that such bizarre effects work their way right up to macroscopic dimensions with no attenuation in order to determine human behavior? As many scientists and philosophers now realize, even if matter is fundamentally governed by the laws of quantum mechanics, this does not entitle us to suppose that chemical and biological phenomena will follow those same forms of behavior. This is to say nothing of even larger leaps such as the question of whether human behavior is dictated by the laws of physics.
Reductionism works in principle but not in practice, even though all the branches of science are interrelated. If you want to perform a certain chemical reaction, you ask a chemist. You do not ask a quantum physicist, although, in many instances, the quantum physicists may have some very helpful things to say on the matter. If you want to study biological organisms, you do experiments on the biological scale instead of renting time at the local particle accelerator. The breakdown of strict reductionism has become common knowledge among scientists, and yet Amit Goswami, John Hagelin, and Fred Alan Wolf, to mention just three from the film, have not caught up with this way of thinking about science. They prefer to remain within the old-fashioned paradigm that supposes that everything is indeed nothing but physics. This is not entirely surprising, given that each of them earns money writing books about popular physics laced with allusions to Eastern mysticism and the "really big questions in life." But now their knowledge of quantum mechanics is even allowing them to become movie stars and, better still, in a movie that is changing people's lives!
After dazzling the audience with dubious pronouncements from quantum physics, the storyline returns to Marlee Matlin's character, who is having an ever-increasing number of mind-expanding experiences, culminating in her realization that she no longer needs her prescription pills and that she can toss them into a lake. What a pity that the appreciation of modern science shown by New Agers is restricted to the more esoteric parts which are seen as supporting their worldviews. Meanwhile, something as beneficial (and mundane) as modern pharmacology is viewed with utter contempt to the point that people are effectively being told to throw away their prescription drugs and to cure themselves by waking up to the real meaning of life.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on January 19, 2007, 01:41:42 PM
Please stop it already. And what exactly is the relevance? Is one of the directors a former classmate of whom you are envious? Is that the reason for posting the bad reviews?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on January 19, 2007, 01:42:38 PM
The year's sleeper hit was inspired by a 35,000-year-old warrior spirit from Atlantis.
Willamette Week/December 22, 2004 By Chris Lydgate
The most intriguing movie of 2004 has nothing to do with George W. Bush, Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, or killer zombies. No, the topic is metaphysics--and the movie is What the Bleep Do We Know?
Shot in Portland, the film stars deaf actress Marlee Matlin as a Xanax-gobbling photographer whose world turns inside out after a chance encounter on a basketball court. Her story is punctuated by a Greek chorus of physicists, philosophers, psychologists and mystics slinging soundbites about quantum mechanics.
Think Stephen Hawking on an acid trip.
The premise may sound outlandish, but the film has become a cult classic. More than 60,000 people saw it at the Bagdad Theater, where it played for 18 weeks. "It's been a huge success," says Peter Boicourt, the film buyer for McMenamins theaters. "We've never played a film that long before."
The Chicago Tribune called it "modern science for dummies." The Dallas Morning News described it as "a film that dares to treat people as smart and deeply curious rather than dumb and deeply cynical."
"It's the best movie I've ever seen," declared teacher Brooke Kaye-Albright, who attended an event with one of the film's directors at the New Renaissance Bookstore last week. "It helps me realize what I'm really capable of."
"I loved it," added Leisa Vandehey, an office worker for Multnomah County. "I wish I could bring everyone I know to see it."
To date, the film has drawn more than a million viewers and grossed $9.6 million--piddling by Hollywood standards (Spider-Man 2 grossed $373 million) but a smash hit for an indie film.
What most viewers don't realize is that What the Bleep (which also screens as What the #$*! Do We Know?) is the work of a strange sect headquartered a couple of hours north of Portland in the prairie town of Yelm, Wash.
The sect is dedicated to Ramtha, a mighty warrior-spirit from Atlantis, who speaks in a hokey English accent through his channeler, a former cable-TV saleswoman named JZ Knight, who plays herself in What the Bleep.
On the surface, Ramtha's message sounds like a cross between New Age spirituality and Amway optimism. Everything happens for a reason. Take charge of your life. Don't be a victim.
But delve a little deeper, and you find some strange, even disturbing ideas. Ramtha says mirrors are portals to a parallel universe. Ramtha says children with Down syndrome have "chosen" their condition. Ramtha says you can read minds, alter your own DNA, reverse aging, teleport, travel through time, and prolong your life with Twinkies.
Seriously.
All religions have an article of faith. Mormons believe the angel Moroni spoke to Joseph Smith. Catholics believe the wafer and wine become the body and blood of Christ. And "Ramsters" (as they're known in Yelm) believe that when a 58-year-old woman strides on stage, settles into her ceremonial chair, and speaks in a low, strange voice, she is no longer a blue-eyed grandmother named JZ Knight but an enlightened being named Ramtha, who flourished 35,000 years ago.
In 1997, parapsychologists from the Saybrook Graduate School in San Francisco measured Knight's pulse, respiration and other vital signs before and after channeling Ramtha.
"The type of results we got from the psychological and physiological tests are so unique that it's beyond my ability to imagine how someone could fake them," says researcher Stanley Krippner.
Knight refused to speak to WW, but her autobiography describes a difficult childhood. Born in Roswell, N.M. (a year before the infamous Roswell Incident), she grew up dirt-poor in a family with nine children. Her father was an alcoholic who beat her mother. She married a gas-station attendant and had two boys before leaving her husband and moving to Washington state.
She was just another Tacoma housewife until a Sunday afternoon in 1977, when she put a cardboard pyramid on her head and was startled by a shining apparition, 7 feet tall, with "black dancing eyes" standing in her kitchen.
"My name is Ramtha the Enlightened One," he intoned. "And I have come to help you over the ditch."
Whatever Ramtha's reasons for slumbering through the millennia, his timing--in commercial terms--was impeccable. The Age of Aquarius was dawning, channeling was all the rage, and Ramtha's gospel of self-empowerment seemed to strike a chord, especially among women (celebrity fans include Salma Hayek, Linda Evans and Shirley MacLaine.)
Ramtha's disciples (known as "masters") have now swelled to an estimated 5,000 people around the globe, who plunk down $1,000 for a weeklong spell of ancient wisdom every year. To cater to this spiritual hunger, Knight employs 60 people churning out books, tapes, CDs, videos, posters, scents, lotions, candles and elvish capes.
Her company, JZK Inc., refuses to divulge any financial information, but one observer pegs its annual income at $10 million at least. Whatever the figure, it is substantial enough that the girl who was born in a one-room shack now lives in a 12,000-square-foot French-style chateau with six bedrooms, seven fireplaces, a spiral staircase and an indoor pool.
Driving through Yelm (population 3,300) you can't help but feel that the town seems miscast as a mecca. Set 20 miles southeast of Olympia, where the Nisqually River wends its way from the jagged peak of Mount Rainier, Yelm is the kind of place where men wear overalls to work, green moss sprouts on the roofs, and the Christmas parade is front-page news.
On the edge of town, behind a high stone wall, sits the Ranch, a.k.a. Ramtha's School of Enlightenment--a 49-acre spread that functions as a sort of intergalactic headquarters. Here, in an indoor horse ring dubbed the Great Hall, Ramtha holds court before audiences of a thousand masters or more, who sit cross-legged on a floor paved with Astroturf.
WW was barred from attending any of Ramtha's appearances, which typically occur a couple of times a month. But videos and eyewitness accounts depict a charismatic woman thundering from the stage, sometimes challenging the masters, sometimes lecturing them, sometimes leading them in "wine ceremonies" where the entire assembly gets plowed.
On a recent visit, my tour guide was Greg Simmons, RSE's marketing director. With his blue jeans, black wool sweater fraying at the elbows and piercing gaze, Simmons somehow broadcasts both intensity and calm, like a transistor radio tuned to two stations at once.
Simmons' first audience with Ramtha was 22 years ago. He was so awestruck that he eventually quit his job and moved to Yelm.
Ramtha's appeal is plain to see. Stripped to its essentials, the idea is that you possess untapped hidden powers. If you could just channel your own potential, all your problems--your depression, your coke habit, your crummy marriage--would melt away.
This idea is hardly unique--ask your local chapter of Alcoholics Anonymous. But Ramtha takes it one step further. By creating your own reality, Ramsters believe, you can violate the laws of physics. Ramtha teaches that with proper training, you can learn to see in the infrared wavelength, transmit thought or predict the future. To hone their mental powers, disciples wander through a vast outdoor labyrinth with blindfolds duct-taped to their heads for up to eight hours at a time, concentrating on the "void" at the center of the maze. "It builds focus within," says Simmons. "It's just a question of mind over matter."
They also practice telepathy. One will take a scrap of paper, sketch an image--a canoe, for example--and focus on transmission. A second will sit, blindfolded, across the Great Hall, and sketch what they receive. Hundreds of apparently successful transmissions are taped up on the walls, side by side: bicycles, numbers, triplets of colors. "These people don't even speak the same language," Simmons says.
We have lunch together at Annie's Bistro, a well-known Ramster joint in Yelm. He orders the calamari. I choose the stroganoff. Afterwards, we walk out to the parking lot, where I discover that I somehow left my headlights on. My battery is dead. We string a pair of jumper cables from Simmons' immense pickup to my Honda, which fires right up.
"I probably could have done that by just touching the battery," he smiles. "But I didn't want to freak you out."
Approximately 2,000 masters now reside in the Yelm area (only JZ Knight actually lives at the Ranch). While there is no overt hostility, the spiritual immigration has created some friction. The mayor of Yelm refused to make any comments about Ramtha, and local residents roll their eyes at talk of telepathy and quantum potentials.
The fact is that Ramtha has become a significant part of the Yelm economy. The School of Enlightenment draws thousands of masters every year--some of whom have set up cafes, bookstores, galleries and auto shops.
Most of these businesses would seem at home in the dreadlock district of any American city. But deep in the woods between Yelm and Rainier, masters have also set up an operation that would raise a few eyebrows on Hawthorne Boulevard--a private school where 40 children learn, along with the three Rs, how to read minds and sense the unseen.
Sitting on a minuscule blue chair in the first-grade classroom of the Children's School of Excellence, teacher Cheryl Nichols spreads a deck of cards face-down, invites me to choose one--and then guess what it is.
I pull a card from the deck and lay it down on the table, staring at the yellow smiley face on the reverse. Focus. After 30 seconds, the face starts to shimmer. It seems to float up off the table, mocking me.
"Think about it this way," Nichols says. "You've already chosen the card. Now imagine that you've already turned it over. You just have to look and see what it is."
Suddenly, a card appears in my mind's eye--the Seven of Diamonds. I write it down in my notebook, then turn the card over.
It's the Six of Diamonds.
Suddenly, my pulse is racing. Nichols looks at me and smiles.
In 1988, David McCarthy's life was falling apart. A musician and cabinetmaker living in New Zealand, he was stretched to the breaking point by the pressures of raising two daughters, paying a mortgage, and the suicide of his best friend. "I felt like if I stopped for a day, everything would fall apart," he says. "I had to find some answers."
Then he stumbled across a book by Ramtha. "A lot of it rang true for me," he says. "It said, 'Love yourself into life,' and I thought that sounded pretty good."
McCarthy came to Yelm in 1990--and was blown away. "When you're with a thousand kindred spirits, all seeking enlightenment, from all over the world, there's an enthusiasm and camaraderie that's very powerful," he says.
He signed up for classes, workshops and retreats, generally immersing himself in Ramtha's world. To advance through the school and join elite groups such as the Blue College, the Red Guard or the Comrades, masters are required to attend at least two events every year. Skip a mandatory event and you're busted back down to the bottom rank.
Year after year, McCarthy kept coming back, working at his disciplines, seduced by the promise that his new powers were right around the corner. He suppressed his doubts. "You're taught that doubt is your problem," he says. "We are sleeping Gods, and Ramtha will wake us up."
One day, McCarthy and other masters were working on "manifesting"--creating a physical object out of nothing by focusing on a mental image, like a gold coin, a rose, or a blue feather. "After several days, I'd not created anything solid," he says.
Then, across the Great Hall, he heard people shouting. He saw a woman walking through the crowd holding a blue feather over her head. Pandemonium broke out. Over roars of appreciation, the woman took her place next to McCarthy. He leaned over and asked her how she did it.
"She says she went into the store and bought it. I said, 'That's not creating something out of nothing!' And she said, 'Yes it is!--I've created my own reality.' And I thought, 'I have to get out of here.'"
McCarthy, who still lives in Yelm, is now fiercely critical of Knight. "It was a scam," he says. "I have no doubt but that JZ is a fraud."
Another former student, who asked that she be identified only as "Stephanie," spent hours every day following the school's disciplines--focused breathing, meditation, and concentrating on a list of positive thoughts, such as I am fabulously wealthy, I am radiantly healthy, I am 20 years younger, I never age. She believed that she could heal her own illnesses by generating a high-frequency force field where decay could not survive. If she got sick, she thought it was because she wasn't disciplined enough.
Then, one day, she developed a toothache. She went to the dentist for the first time in 10 years and had to get two teeth extracted. "That was my first indication that something was wrong," she says. "I did the disciplines every day for years. But it didn't work. I thought, 'I did not maintain my teeth. I did not reverse aging.'"
"The whole thing is rigged," she says. "I just don't want to do it anymore."
Stories like these sound familiar to Robert Menna, who started collecting information about Ramtha 12 years ago, after his teenage daughter, Alex, ran away to Yelm (she has since quit the group.)
"These are not stupid people," says Menna, who is working on a book about Ramtha. "They're open-minded, idealistic. They want to change the world. But the longer you're in, the harder it is to get out."
Menna says masters follow Ramtha's every pronouncement--no matter how bizarre. In the '80s, when his teachings were filled with tales of UFOs and alien abduction, Ramtha declared that copper could ward off extraterrestrial attacks. Masters lined their ceilings with copper strips and copper pennies. Ramtha warned of apocalyptic battles, or a catastrophic flood. Masters built underground shelters by the score. Ramtha said drinking seawater could boost psychic powers. Masters actually flew to the Dead Sea to scoop up buckets of brine.
In September, Ramtha revealed that Hostess Twinkies contain an ingredient that can prolong life. Masters cleared the nutritious treats from grocery-store shelves. "Ramtha made some kind of announcement, and now everybody's going nuts about Twinkies," says a manager at the Yelm QFC.
"This is a future Heaven's Gate," Menna says.
Simmons dismisses the criticism. "A 'cult' is a dirty little four-letter word you call people you don't like," he says. "The school is too difficult, too scientific, and too wonderful to be a cult."
The most intriguing concept in What the Bleep--and in Ramtha's teachings--is the idea that quantum mechanics is the ultimate proof that the universe is a sort of metaphysical putty we shape with our minds. But one of the experts quoted in the film says this claim is nonsense.
Philosopher David Albert, who runs the Philosophical Foundations of Physics program at Columbia University, says the filmmakers totally misrepresented him. "They must have filmed me for four hours," he told WW. "It became clear to me they believe that...by positive thinking we can alter the structure of the world around us. I spent a long time explaining why that isn't true, going into great detail. But in the movie, my views are turned around 180 degrees."
"The film is pushing a claim that quantum mechanics shows that consciousness is the basis of external reality," he continues. "And that's not an accurate representation."
Back at the Ranch, the masters don't worry too much about the skeptics. They are convinced their "disciplines" produce authentic miracles. They boast of incredible healings--tumors shrunk, T-cell counts restored, cancer destroyed.
"It's all been documented," says Simmons, who personally claims to have levitated (something about counter-rotating magnetic fields spinning fast enough to create an anti-gravity matrix).
Pressed for evidence, however, Simmons demurred. "We're not interested in convincing people," he says finally. "It's not about trying to convince anybody--we're not in the convincing business. We know we have the proof."
It's hard to know whether to be amused or alarmed by the Ramtha phenomenon. History is replete with prophets claiming miraculous powers. Some soar to spectacular heights. Others barely clear the runway. Some genuinely believe they are appointed by God--others are basically con artists in cloaks.
Which is Ramtha? Only JZ Knight knows. Certainly, she has achieved some spectacular results. Since she started channeling Ramtha, she has gone from being a Tacoma nobody to a million-dollar prophet who commands thousands of followers. Whether by divine inspiration or savvy marketing, she has given birth to a creed, a cult or a circus--or maybe, if you go for the quantum outlook, all three.
What the Bleep Do They Know?
Film's "experts" boast intriguing résumés.
Several authorities appear in What the Bleep Do We Know? offering mind-bending insights about reality and perception. But who are they, really? Here's a look at some of the more controversial speakers.
David Albert (above) is a professor and the director of the Philosophical Foundations of Physics program at Columbia University. He says the film completely misrepresented his views.
Dr. Joseph Dispenza is a chiropractor and a master teacher at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment.
Dr. Masaru Emoto is a doctor of alternative medicine who has written three books about messages from water.
Amit Goswami (above) is professor emeritus (in theoretical physics) at the University of Oregon and member of its Institute of Theoretical Science, as well as author of a slew of New Age books. He also lectures at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment.
John Hagelin is a physicist and fan of Transcendental Meditation. He is the director of the Maharishi University of Management's Institute of Science, Technology and Public Policy, and has twice run for president as the candidate of the Natural Law Party (whose platform included natural health care, deep tax cuts and "conflict-free politics").
Mgr. Miceal Ledwith is a Catholic priest and former president of Maynooth College in Ireland who resigned after a seminarian accused Ledwith of abusing him as a boy. He is also a master teacher at Ramtha's School of Enlightenment.
Dr. Jeffrey Satinover is a psychiatrist, physicist and author of several books (The Quantum Brain and Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth) who supports reparative therapy for homosexuality and lists Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas as one of his heroes.
To see more documents/articles regarding this group/organization/subject click here.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2007, 02:44:39 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Please stop it already. And what exactly is the relevance? Is one of the directors a former classmate of whom you are envious? Is that the reason for posting the bad reviews?
doesn't seem like its reviews or envy here, but someone went from one cult straight to another (Ramtha)?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2007, 02:37:53 PM
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2007, 02:42:56 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Cults
check it out ! Hyde is a cult!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on February 12, 2007, 04:17:21 PM
Okay, something is confusing me here. When you go to the bottom of the page, where it says "See Also", why is the reference to Hyde School not clickable (the other entries are), but the footnote is, and why is it locked? The footnote links you to Hyde School's web page.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on February 25, 2007, 04:46:43 AM
Quote
Vanda now lives in Yelm Washington and is currently channeling Ramptha as he now is Coming Out with his new book- I remember when. Just kidding, enjoy this lost gem. "Just goes to prove not everyone can do comedy." BS Cactus 1984
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on February 25, 2007, 05:27:04 AM
Here's one with Paul. I guess he goes by the name of Pavel these days...
Quote
Join Paula Gloria on Farther Down the Rabbit Hole on location (rabbit hole central? ha-ha!) that is Yelm Washington where the Ramtha School of Enlightenment is located.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2007, 05:51:05 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Here's one with Paul. I guess he goes by the name of Pavel these days...
I guess Joe goes by the name of Ramtha these days.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2007, 08:01:16 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Here's one with Paul. I guess he goes by the name of Pavel these days...
I guess Joe goes by the name of Ramtha these days.
Paul and Vanda .... there is a pair of out standing Hyde Diploma holders! I want to be like them and worship a woman channeling a 35k year old man. Just for historic context the agrarian basis for what we call civilization, time at about the domestication of the dog is 7 - 8 k years old. Hey I am open minded. It is possible that the spirit of a member grunting crude tool wielding hunter gather tribe in early upper Paleolithic time was a great shaman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Paleolithic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Paleolithic). Hey, L Ron hubbard could be correct and really all those unhelpful thoughts that Paval was talking about are Thetans left over from humanity being forced into a volcanic crater and being obliterated by a hydrogen bomb 50k years ago.
All of these cults start with and element of true or a useful process and then rap a think layer of horseshit around them. One of the big take away messages from both the teachings of Christ and Buddha IMHO is the illusionary nature of what passes for reality. I have seen "what the bleep" and it is correct IMHO that most of what we perceive is just a chemical reaction that you can to a degree control. Which is in turn (again IMHO) pretty near to the Dyanetic process of getting "cleared." But the game is like Three Card Monty. You see the guy in front of you win so you want to play. I am happy with my teeth so I will not be making any trips to the state of Washington. I may go to Whistler in BC to work on my chemical reaction to speed and incline (read the rush of down hill skiing) and say a few works to JC before I go. For full disclosure, I believe the son of a Jewish carpenter and a virgin is the Son of God. How crazy is that? Cult Cult Cult that Christianity!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2007, 10:56:11 AM
Quote
Catholics believe the wafer and wine become the body and blood of Christ.
The first miracle recorded in the gospel is the water into wine at the marriage Cana. The ceremony of the wine into blood and bread into flesh is most likely taken from a Roman Dionysian Cult over layered on the Christian belief that Christ ( a Greek work meaning anointed) gave the physical body to redeem us from the original sin of Adam and Eve. That sin is the knowledge of good and evil of if you check Buddha, the perception of the illusion of good and evil. Christianity is largely a Paulist branch of Christian thought with the layers of centuries of Roman and Papist administration plastered on. Personally I have found it instructive in my own faith to read the Gospel of Thomas and books on Jewish Mysticism.
Oddly if you look at the practice of the Mormon faith you will find a much closer link to Jewish Mystic tradition then you will find in any other Christian faith. This link is not via the angel Maroni however. It is from the Knight Templar who knew the symbolism of the temple of Solomon. The knights were the for runners of the modern F.A.M. This was passed thru the ages as Masonic Ritual. Joeseph Smith (Joe Gauld's real name!) and Brigham Young were both F.A.M. The advantage that Knight has is that she has so much more to draw on to do her own pastoral pastiche. I would just like to add that I know several members of the LDS. I agree with Senate Majority leader Harry Reed, they are some of the most kind and decent people I know. Jesus said "I will judge the tree by the fruit it bears" Maybe Jesus likes the Mormans.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on February 25, 2007, 01:27:48 PM
I should tell my neighbor who is dying of AIDS that if they believe hard enough, a total restoration of health can be instantaneous, as they themselves, in their own minds, are really the "Master of their own Destiny". The correlating implication here, of course, is that if restoration of health proves illusive, they themselves are at fault for being less than perfect at dispelling doubt.
All the money that is "channeled" in real life currency through JZ Knight's compound probably could feed a small Third World country for the same time period.
Far be it for me to nitpik at someone else's vision of happiness, and I must add that Paul always struck me as being very kind (at least to me)... however, I can not help but feel that something in the environment at Hyde (the water?!) primed these two to go this route...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2007, 06:02:15 PM
Quote
if restoration of health proves illusive, they themselves are at fault for being less than perfect at dispelling doubt
Why yes, it is exactly like Hyde. If you don't succeed it is your fault. And if you succeed at Hyde and then fuck up later in life like MC then it is because you did not internalize the message and live up to your unique potential.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on February 25, 2007, 07:42:40 PM
Was Hyde aware that Paul and Vanda are involved in this cult? Hyde just gave Vanda a Diploma this year. Is Hyde endorsing this cult?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on February 25, 2007, 08:28:14 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Was Hyde aware that Paul and Vanda are involved in this cult? Hyde just gave Vanda a Diploma this year. Is Hyde endorsing this cult?
I'm not sure. Perhaps they consider it relatively harmless, perhaps they no longer consider it their concern. From what I have been able to find out, Paul has been involved in it for at least 6 or 7 years, quite probably longer. Vanda I am not sure of, I am guessing less time, but I could be out in left field. It's my impression that Paul does tend to go back to Hyde for at least the major reunions, so I imagine he has talked to some former classmates about it. Any of you out there to lend more insight or confirmation?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on March 01, 2007, 12:48:07 AM
From an essay about an anti-war demonstration appearing on Vanda's website; color emphasis my adddition... http://www.vanda.us/ (http://www.vanda.us/)
Quote
I joined in a morning camp orientation. I introduced myself and got a big welcome. I told the circle of 30 or so newcomers I represented a whole bunch of amazing folks from the Pacific Northwest...
Is this supposed to mean the Ramtha community?
Quote
I remembered sitting in a restaurant in Fremont with my friend Anurag who leads transformational courses. "You can't stop war any more than you could have stopped fire. People stopped using fire when electricity came along. People stopped using vinyl records when CD's came along, The new technology renders war obsolete." To Anurag, The work done at Landmark Education is that technology. I agree with him.
So Landmark Education is supposed to end all war? And again later:
Quote
That night I slept on a really comfortable air mattress in Pallas's tent. Pallas had done a lot of work "creating possibilities" at Landmark Education, like me, so there was instant rapport. She created the possibility of being dazzling with her appearance and I created the possibility of being carefree in my work before we went to bed...
Very sad, very depressing... Well, someone else brought up the similarity between Amway and the family seminars on another thread, and Amway and Landmark share many similarities...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on March 01, 2007, 01:44:27 AM
More from the same essay from http://www.vanda.us/ (http://www.vanda.us/)
Quote
I found myself sobbing, not just crying, but sobbing. I could let it rip here. I hadn't been in touch with that sheer pain inside me about the state of our civilization, when such a brainwashing occurs that can break the strongest human bond that exists, between a mother and her child. And for what cause? So that the administration and it's corporate bedfellows can perpetrate themselves. So that Halliburton and Bechtel can get even wealthier.
It's really an experience to have a video camera in your face when you're crying. I uttered a few words to the woman behind the camera: "These are our babies; women, wake up! No More War! These are our babies!" I sobbed. SHE started crying.
Later she told me how moving that was for her and that she is producing a documentary about the vigil. We had shared an intense moment and I felt an affinity with her. I joked as I signed the release form: "I'm an actress and I can turn it on and off whenever I want for the camera." I was sorta fishing to see if her sense of humor stretched that far. It didn't.
Sorry, but my sense of humor doesn't stretch that far either. Maybe it is because I have witnessed and experienced and have felt very much betrayed by that same faucet being turned on and off. To sob on my shoulder saying one thing, and to then go around and publicly state the opposite... I guess not much has changed.
If you read the rest of the essay (5p long, PDF download), it is filled with glib and oh-so-smart denunciations of middle America mainstream Texas culture. I suppose on some level one could find it funny, but doesn't she have anything more relevant or substantial to focus on? Maybe I'm just not hip enough, or cool enough, to be sufficiently amused.
I dunno, maybe it is here that I should be older and wiser. Maybe I should find it in my heart to forgive and forget. After all, she is a victim, too... But I can't help but think that this is one cold cold chick here...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 02:50:02 AM
Ursus revertitur ad vomitum suum.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on March 01, 2007, 03:59:26 AM
Sicut avis ad alia transvolans et passer quolibet vadens sic maledictum frustra prolatum in quempiam superveniet.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 04:19:55 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Sicut avis ad alia transvolans et passer quolibet vadens sic maledictum frustra prolatum in quempiam superveniet.
Proverbs 26:2 (Internet check). Don't see the relevance of the quotation. But those were interesting times, when a word (verbum) was a thing (res). In the beginning was the Word. A curse was a thing to be feared. Sorry to digress.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 06:04:31 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
From an essay about an anti-war demonstration appearing on Vanda's website; color emphasis my adddition... http://www.vanda.us/ (http://www.vanda.us/)
Quote
I joined in a morning camp orientation. I introduced myself and got a big welcome. I told the circle of 30 or so newcomers I represented a whole bunch of amazing folks from the Pacific Northwest...
Is this supposed to mean the Ramtha community?
Quote
I remembered sitting in a restaurant in Fremont with my friend Anurag who leads transformational courses. "You can't stop war any more than you could have stopped fire. People stopped using fire when electricity came along. People stopped using vinyl records when CD's came along, The new technology renders war obsolete." To Anurag, The work done at Landmark Education is that technology. I agree with him.
So Landmark Education is supposed to end all war? And again later:
Quote
That night I slept on a really comfortable air mattress in Pallas's tent. Pallas had done a lot of work "creating possibilities" at Landmark Education, like me, so there was instant rapport. She created the possibility of being dazzling with her appearance and I created the possibility of being carefree in my work before we went to bed...
Very sad, very depressing... Well, someone else brought up the similarity between Amway and the family seminars on another thread, and Amway and Landmark share many similarities...
Am I correct that this woman Vanda is a former student at Hyde and recently received her "diploma" there? If so, this goes to show you how messed up Hyde is. What is the criteria for getting a Hyde Diploma? It certainly is not having character, morals and values.
The more I read the more I realize how f--ked up Hyde is. I cannot understand how any legitimate Educational Consultant could recommend this Cult to any parent! This site has proved to me that Hyde has been flawed since the beginning and although certain things have changed, (no more dog collars) the basis is the same! I think it is great that the word is getting out and I encourage all of you to talk to Gary Eskow who instead of just coming on this board and venting, (nothing wrong with that) is doing something more to change the abuses applied at boarding schools like Hyde.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 06:19:17 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Am I correct that this woman Vanda is a former student at Hyde and recently received her "diploma" there? If so, this goes to show you how messed up Hyde is. What is the criteria for getting a Hyde Diploma? It certainly is not having character, morals and values.
The criteria for receiving a Hyde diploma are:
1) You must crave Hyde's approval, even, as in Vanda's case, thirty years later.
2) You must allow Hyde to exploit the event for promotional purposes.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 07:58:23 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ursus revertitur ad vomitum suum.
Damn! Latin scholars on board. Ursus is a bear not a dog. Bears do eat thier vomit in the fall getting ready for hybernation.
Vanda really worked the crowd well when she got her diploma. She really is a real actor. But this should not devolve into a discussion of personalities.
The statement that:
1) you must crave Hyde's approval 2) you mast submit to being a PR whore
is true, but they do a sniff test before they will give you the vellum. I know one guy, whom I will not name, who really wanted one but was refused. Might have something to do with the fact that he was at an hyde event and was offering to share his percocets. So I am wondering. Did Vanda pass the sniff test? Or did hyde not know. I have a hard time seeing involvment in the Ramtha scene as character indicatator. People have a need to believe, even if that belief is that there is nothing to believe. And belief is powerful. I have seen it work in my life. IMHO Ramtha has a slight fishy odor not unlike the Peoples Temple. Funny, when you are middle aged you can really groove to musak. I knew the earth had shifted the day I was tapping my foot in the cereal aisle of Star Market to Jimi Hendrix "stone free to do what I please" As long as I get my oat bran. I was putting on my ski boots and the GD song "Estimated Prophet" came on over the lodge musak. That was the same day that this stuff about Ramtha appeared on this thread. Those of you that did not worship in the cult of Jerry may not be familiar with that song. here is a link: http://arts.ucsc.edu/Gdead/AGDL/estimate.html (http://arts.ucsc.edu/Gdead/AGDL/estimate.html) I subscribe to the Jugnian notion of interconnection. The collective was giving me clues on what to make of it. So was If God is you why do you need a housewife guru to channel a caveman shaman? Given a choice I would rather hang with the percocet guy. At least it is clear where he is coming from.
"My time comming voices say ......"
BTW Sid was excommunicated in the spring of 1976.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 08:03:56 AM
http://arts.ucsc.edu/Gdead/AGDL/estimate.html (http://arts.ucsc.edu/Gdead/AGDL/estimate.html) was written the same year Knight first channeled. cooincident? meaningful?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on March 01, 2007, 09:10:16 AM
The full quote, which the troll did not leave, as it would not have made much sense, is Proverbs 26:11: 'Sicut canis qui revertitur ad vomitum suum sic inprudens qui iterat stultitiam suam'. Translation: As a dog that returneth to his vomit, so is the fool that repeateth his folly.
My reply, 'Sicut avis ad alia transvolans et passer quolibet vadens sic maledictum frustra prolatum in quempiam superveniet', came from Proverbs 26:2, and translates to: As a bird flying to other places, and a sparrow going here or there: so a curse uttered without cause shall come upon a man. Meaning... a curse uttered without cause shall do no harm to the person that is cursed, but will return upon him that curseth, as whithersoever a bird flies, it returns to its own nest.
Thanks to all who noticed. :lol:
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on March 01, 2007, 09:20:44 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Given a choice I would rather hang with the percocet guy. At least it is clear where he is coming from.
Yes, certainly a hell of a lot more honest, and a hell of a lot less complicated...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 11:32:04 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Given a choice I would rather hang with the percocet guy. At least it is clear where he is coming from.
Yes, certainly a hell of a lot more honest, and a hell of a lot less complicated...
Hey you guys, lets step up to the plate. Let's try to make a difference by contacting Gary Eskow and letting him tell some or part of our stories in an anonymous way for the paper he wants to write. He has more courage than any of us and for that reason I feel it is my duty as a human being to help bring the truth to light..
We all need to have some of Gary's courage rather than hiding anonymously on this board. Let's get out of our comfort zone and make a difference in this world for the sake of other kids and families who might make a mistake by sending their kids to Hyde
I have spoken to Gary and am trying to get him old Hyde papers in order to help him write his story. He needs more people to contact him. What do you have to lose? I find him to be a professional in everyway and to respect my wishes and privacy. My name is not going to be associated with the story although Hyde will figure out who it is, but who cares? We are all in the same boat. No one wants the public to google Hyde and have our name come up. This will not happen with the way Gary is writing the story. Hyde are a bunch of cowards and I don't want to go through life being a coward also when I could have made a difference.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 12:25:25 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
The full quote, which the troll did not leave, as it would not have made much sense, is Proverbs 26:11: 'Sicut canis qui revertitur ad vomitum suum sic inprudens qui iterat stultitiam suam'. Translation: As a dog that returneth to his vomit, so is the fool that repeateth his folly.
My reply, 'Sicut avis ad alia transvolans et passer quolibet vadens sic maledictum frustra prolatum in quempiam superveniet', came from Proverbs 26:2, and translates to: As a bird flying to other places, and a sparrow going here or there: so a curse uttered without cause shall come upon a man. Meaning... a curse uttered You are on record as saying that you've been out of the loop for thirty years trying to work out the trauma Hyde inflicted on you. without cause shall do no harm to the person that is cursed, but will return upon him that curseth, as whithersoever a bird flies, it returns to its own nest.
Thanks to all who noticed. :lol:
Ursus,
What my adapted Proverb 26:11 means is that you returning to an unpleasant event that occurred over thirty years ago between you and Vanda seems to me like "a dog (in this case bear) returning to its vomit." It's high time that that unpleasant event were out of your system. Moreover, your allegation that she is a false friend is none of our concern. It does not pertain to cults. It is unmistakably personal vendetta.
I've reached an age where I have begun researching my past. The Internet makes that possible. I am glad that I discovered this site and had the opportunity to analyze what are arguably the two strangest years of my life. On the other hand, while I am not discounting the painful experiences of others, I do not feel that my experience left any lasting damage. So when you, Ursus, go on record as saying that you are STILL recovering from your Hyde experience, I am bowled over. What could possibly have been so bad? At first, I admit, I thought that you were pathologically vulnerable. Now I'm beginning to wonder if you are not also pathologically vindictive. Forgive me for being so frank, but the explanation was in order.
I still don't understand the relevance of your proverb. Did you really think I was cursing you?
Mike
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on March 01, 2007, 02:42:52 PM
Quote from: ""Mike""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
The full quote, which the troll did not leave, as it would not have made much sense, is Proverbs 26:11: 'Sicut canis qui revertitur ad vomitum suum sic inprudens qui iterat stultitiam suam'. Translation: As a dog that returneth to his vomit, so is the fool that repeateth his folly.
My reply, 'Sicut avis ad alia transvolans et passer quolibet vadens sic maledictum frustra prolatum in quempiam superveniet', came from Proverbs 26:2, and translates to: As a bird flying to other places, and a sparrow going here or there: so a curse uttered without cause shall come upon a man. Meaning... a curse uttered without cause shall do no harm to the person that is cursed, but will return upon him that curseth, as whithersoever a bird flies, it returns to its own nest.
Thanks to all who noticed. :lol:
Ursus,
What my adapted Proverb 26:11 means is that you returning to an unpleasant event that occurred over thirty years ago between you and Vanda seems to me like "a dog (in this case bear) returning to its vomit." It's high time that that unpleasant event were out of your system. Moreover, your allegation that she is a false friend is none of our concern. It does not pertain to cults. It is unmistakably personal vendetta.
I've reached an age where I have begun researching my past. The Internet makes that possible. I am glad that I discovered this site and had the opportunity to analyze what are arguably the two strangest years of my life. On the other hand, while I am not discounting the painful experiences of others, I do not feel that my experience left any lasting damage. So when you, Ursus, go on record as saying that you are STILL recovering from your Hyde experience, I am bowled over. What could possibly have been so bad? At first, I admit, I thought that you were pathologically vulnerable. Now I'm beginning to wonder if you are not also pathologically vindictive. Forgive me for being so frank, but the explanation was in order.
I still don't understand the relevance of your proverb. Did you really think I was cursing you?
Mike
Hi Mike,
Yes, I did think you might be cursing me. After all, there had been quite a bit of discussion re. Ramtha and you didn't see fit to identify yourself. :lol: :rofl:
There was no unpleasant event 30 years ago between Vanda and myself that I was returning to, in fact, I don't think there ever was an unpleasant event between us that I can remember. Rather, it was recently avowed statements on her part that were part and parcel of her return to Hyde to receive her diploma that, in no uncertain terms, negated previously avowed sentiments and allegiances on her part towards me. And you are right, I shouldn't have taken it personally. If that is the kind of pressure that people feel from Hyde, and that is how they capitulate, all for the sake of that flimsy piece of vellum, then something definitely stinks around that place and it certainly isn't the aroma of rotting piers wafting uphill from the Kennebec. I originally brought this up in the context of the duplicity that Hyde can effect but clearly something was lost along the way as it apparently has come out a lot more personal than it was intended. I hadn't meant to come across as personally "vindictive" and if that is the case, then I do most heartily apologize. However, I do still stand by my previous statement:
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Far be it for me to nitpik at someone else's vision of happiness, and I must add that Paul always struck me as being very kind (at least to me)... however, I can not help but feel that something in the environment at Hyde (the water?!) primed these two to go this route...
As to your impression that I was "pathologically vulnerable", you are in the right ballpark, although I would not go so far as to use the term pathological. Hyde has a well-documented history of accepting students with problems and in my case, a history of major depression. To have that turned around and used as inexorable evidence of my woefully deficient character rather than to be acknowleged for what it actually was, not to mention the actions taken against said woefully deficient character, precipitated an even steeper downward spiral than had been there before. That isn't the whole story of their culpability, of course, but the one I'll address here. I am happy for you that you have been blessed with such a robust sense of self that you have been able to emerge seemingly unscathed by your Hyde experience. Not everyone has been so lucky. For my part, I have found this site to be most healing and illuminating, present exchange excepted.
Please be more careful with your quotes, Mike. You inserted a few lines of text into my quote which were not there before. "We own what we write", and I don't own those words and don't particularly care to have them attributed to me. I have taken the liberty of removing them within this reply, but they are still there in your post for all eternity, as it were.
Urs
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 02:44:15 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I've reached an age where I have begun researching my past. The Internet makes that possible. I am glad that I discovered this site and had the opportunity to analyze what are arguably the two strangest years of my life. On the other hand, while I am not discounting the painful experiences of others, I do not feel that my experience left any lasting damage. So when you, Ursus, go on record as saying that you are STILL recovering from your Hyde experience, I am bowled over. What could possibly have been so bad? At first, I admit, I thought that you were pathologically vulnerable. Now I'm beginning to wonder if you are not also pathologically vindictive. Forgive me for being so frank, but the explanation was in order.
I still don't understand the relevance of your proverb. Did you really think I was cursing you?
Mike
I am not Ursus, but want to point something out to you Mike. It is obvious to me that Ursus is bitter towards Hyde because he has not had closure. I totally relate to this. I am not sure I would use the word "vindictive" to describe someone who is angry and bitter. True that many times we are angry at ourselves for various reasons like the fact I wish I would have stood up to those scums at Hyde. I am angry at myself that I participated in bullying my classmates by getting caught up in the whole system. We were kids and we were truly brainwashed and for that some of us are angry at ourselves that we succumbed to this. Rather than admonishing Ursus, I believe he needs closure.
Ursus, would it not help to talk to Gary Eskow who is doing an article on Hyde? Would you not feel better knowing that you have helped prevent another child from going through what you and I have? I don't know you, but it always helps me to feel like I have done all I could to "right a wrong." This is not vindictive, it is helping others. I can't imagine looking the other way knowing that many more kids will be traumatized at Hyde when I could have helped to avoid this. It might be just what you need Ursus.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on March 01, 2007, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Mike""
I've reached an age where I have begun researching my past. The Internet makes that possible. I am glad that I discovered this site and had the opportunity to analyze what are arguably the two strangest years of my life. On the other hand, while I am not discounting the painful experiences of others, I do not feel that my experience left any lasting damage. So when you, Ursus, go on record as saying that you are STILL recovering from your Hyde experience, I am bowled over. What could possibly have been so bad? At first, I admit, I thought that you were pathologically vulnerable. Now I'm beginning to wonder if you are not also pathologically vindictive. Forgive me for being so frank, but the explanation was in order.
I still don't understand the relevance of your proverb. Did you really think I was cursing you?
Mike
I am not Ursus, but want to point something out to you Mike. It is obvious to me that Ursus is bitter towards Hyde because he has not had closure. I totally relate to this. I am not sure I would use the word "vindictive" to describe someone who is angry and bitter. True that many times we are angry at ourselves for various reasons like the fact I wish I would have stood up to those scums at Hyde. I am angry at myself that I participated in bullying my classmates by getting caught up in the whole system. We were kids and we were truly brainwashed and for that some of us are angry at ourselves that we succumbed to this. Rather than admonishing Ursus, I believe he needs closure.
Ursus, would it not help to talk to Gary Eskow who is doing an article on Hyde? Would you not feel better knowing that you have helped prevent another child from going through what you and I have? I don't know you, but it always helps me to feel like I have done all I could to "right a wrong." This is not vindictive, it is helping others. I can't imagine looking the other way knowing that many more kids will be traumatized at Hyde when I could have helped to avoid this. It might be just what you need Ursus.
Thank you, kind Guest, for your words of validation. You have no idea how much they mean to me. We really should be sticking together in all this, instead of ripping each other apart.
And I am sorry, Mike, if I seemed at all harsh re. your inserting text into my quote. I am sure it was inadvertant.
You are right, kind Guest, for pointing out that I need closure. It is very difficult to get closure when Hyde is not publically recognized for what it is. Even close friends, not to mention my immediate family, can not possibly understand. Save for this board, I feel so very much alone in this oh too private hell...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 03:58:06 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Mike""
I've reached an age where I have begun researching my past. The Internet makes that possible. I am glad that I discovered this site and had the opportunity to analyze what are arguably the two strangest years of my life. On the other hand, while I am not discounting the painful experiences of others, I do not feel that my experience left any lasting damage. So when you, Ursus, go on record as saying that you are STILL recovering from your Hyde experience, I am bowled over. What could possibly have been so bad? At first, I admit, I thought that you were pathologically vulnerable. Now I'm beginning to wonder if you are not also pathologically vindictive. Forgive me for being so frank, but the explanation was in order.
I still don't understand the relevance of your proverb. Did you really think I was cursing you?
Mike
I am not Ursus, but want to point something out to you Mike. It is obvious to me that Ursus is bitter towards Hyde because he has not had closure. I totally relate to this. I am not sure I would use the word "vindictive" to describe someone who is angry and bitter. True that many times we are angry at ourselves for various reasons like the fact I wish I would have stood up to those scums at Hyde. I am angry at myself that I participated in bullying my classmates by getting caught up in the whole system. We were kids and we were truly brainwashed and for that some of us are angry at ourselves that we succumbed to this. Rather than admonishing Ursus, I believe he needs closure.
Ursus, would it not help to talk to Gary Eskow who is doing an article on Hyde? Would you not feel better knowing that you have helped prevent another child from going through what you and I have? I don't know you, but it always helps me to feel like I have done all I could to "right a wrong." This is not vindictive, it is helping others. I can't imagine looking the other way knowing that many more kids will be traumatized at Hyde when I could have helped to avoid this. It might be just what you need Ursus.
Thank you, kind Guest, for your words of validation. You have no idea how much they mean to me. We really should be sticking together in all this, instead of ripping each other apart.
And I am sorry, Mike, if I seemed at all harsh re. your inserting text into my quote. I am sure it was inadvertant.
You are right, kind Guest, for pointing out that I need closure. It is very difficult to get closure when Hyde is not publically recognized for what it is. Even close friends, not to mention my immediate family, can not possibly understand. Save for this board, I feel so very much alone in this oh too private hell...
Ursus, have you spoken to Gary? Is this something you would consider? I too do not want my name or my parents name mentioned in the article, but I know Gary will respect my privacy so I am not worried. I felt very good telling Gary my experience at Hyde and knowing that my story might help others.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 05:14:34 PM
Quote
I am glad that I discovered this site and had the opportunity to analyze what are arguably the two strangest years of my life. On the other hand, while I am not discounting the painful experiences of others, I do not feel that my experience left any lasting damage.
That which does not kill us makes us stronger. So in a strange way Hyde is charater education.
Title: Release_of_An_Oath
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 06:10:15 PM
Quote
negated previously avowed sentiments and allegiances on her part towards me. And you are right, I shouldn't have taken it personally
Ursus, I take it that you knew Vanda post hyde "runnaway" and she agreed with you in your anti - hyde views. Ever list to the Electric Prunes? The piece from the mass in F minor that was in Easy Rider was my favorite. I have this on vinyl:
I also have wood heat, Vanda is wrong on both the fire and vinyl question.
Title: Re: Release_of_An_Oath
Post by: Anonymous on March 01, 2007, 06:22:30 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
negated previously avowed sentiments and allegiances on her part towards me. And you are right, I shouldn't have taken it personally
Ursus, I take it that you knew Vanda post hyde "runnaway" and she agreed with you in your anti - hyde views. Ever list to the Electric Prunes? The piece from the mass in F minor that was in Easy Rider was my favorite. I have this on vinyl:
Prunes on CD in 12 days. Too much to dream. Co - incidence?
Title: Re: Release_of_An_Oath
Post by: Anonymous on March 02, 2007, 03:11:19 AM
Ursus,
I regretted my strong words upon posting, but what can you do: verba volant scripta manent. I thank you for setting me straight. I'm quick to confront, partly because of the circumstances of my upbringing, partly because I'm living in a very tough neighborhood. I try to direct my challenges to the right address (e.g., 616 High St.), but sometimes I get it wrong. Although you may not know it, I've always attached great value to your posts which, like the one about Michelle, demonstrate empathy and an identification with what is good in people. I value the posts of Emil, too, which are funny, down to earth, and on occasion --- but this is really rare --- lucid. In fact, through the welter of complementary personalities on this board a fairly well-rounded picture of Hyde is emerging. That is something that I would not want the occasional challenge to jeopardize.
Mike
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 02, 2007, 09:03:21 AM
1. easily understood; completely intelligible or comprehensible
Ok not always easily understood, but with a little work completely intelligible or comprehensible.
3. shining or bright.
Always shining and bright like a crazy diamond, except I don't live with my Mom. ( know that this remark is, with a little work, completely intelligible or comprehensible.) Here I will do a little work for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syd_Barrett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syd_Barrett)
2. characterized by clear perception or understanding; rational or sane: a lucid moment in his madness.
I guess the fact that I am not a strick materialist and I do not believe there is a rational answer for every question, may make some of my rambling murky but threw a glass darkly, not dim.
4. clear; pellucid; transparent.
see reply to number 2
I am sure that you can pick my posts out. I have not been signing them lately
Emil
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 02, 2007, 09:23:44 AM
1. easily understood; completely intelligible or comprehensible
Ok not always easily understood, but with a little work completely intelligible or comprehensible.
3. shining or bright.
Always shining and bright like a crazy diamond, except I don't live with my Mom. ( know that this remark is, with a little work, completely intelligible or comprehensible.) Here I will do a little work for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syd_Barrett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syd_Barrett)
2. characterized by clear perception or understanding; rational or sane: a lucid moment in his madness.
I guess the fact that I am not a strick materialist and I do not believe there is a rational answer for every question, may make some of my rambling murky but threw a glass darkly, not dim.
4. clear; pellucid; transparent.
see reply to number 2
I am sure that you can pick my posts out. I have not been signing them lately
Emil
If meaning is built up through not linear but associative logic, and your post consequently becomes a vehicle for extended meditation on a range of seemingly remote topics, then you're lucid.
Mike
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 02, 2007, 10:27:57 AM
Mike,
I strive to be non-linear. Linear is one step down from L7. Strive for sphereness and listen to some Monk.
Always remember the admonition of Sam the Sham: "don't be no L7"
Emil
Title: Re: Release_of_An_Oath
Post by: Ursus on March 05, 2007, 04:04:49 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
negated previously avowed sentiments and allegiances on her part towards me. And you are right, I shouldn't have taken it personally
Ursus, I take it that you knew Vanda post hyde "runnaway" and she agreed with you in your anti - hyde views. Ever list to the Electric Prunes? The piece from the mass in F minor that was in Easy Rider was my favorite. I have this on vinyl:
Prunes on CD in 12 days. Too much to dream. Co - incidence?
Emil (?) - I didn't listen to the ElecPrunes that much, but that doesn't mean anything other than I haven't gotten to them yet! :lol: I have somewhat electic tastes. The CD that has been currently living in my player of late is Blaine L. Reininger's 'Night Air 2' (BLR formerly of TuxedoMoon)... It is sometimes (erroneously, IMO) described as a sequel to (the first) Night Air, but it really is more of a compilation of sorts of some of his previous material. Many of the tracks were used in a soundtrack or soundtracks of one or more films by Nicholas Triandafyllidis. I have not seen any of the latter's films, but the music is quite cinematic, which is something I rather like...
Title: Re: Release_of_An_Oath
Post by: Ursus on March 05, 2007, 10:26:39 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ursus,
I regretted my strong words upon posting, but what can you do: verba volant scripta manent. I thank you for setting me straight. I'm quick to confront, partly because of the circumstances of my upbringing, partly because I'm living in a very tough neighborhood. I try to direct my challenges to the right address (e.g., 616 High St.), but sometimes I get it wrong. Although you may not know it, I've always attached great value to your posts which, like the one about Michelle, demonstrate empathy and an identification with what is good in people. I value the posts of Emil, too, which are funny, down to earth, and on occasion --- but this is really rare --- lucid. In fact, through the welter of complementary personalities on this board a fairly well-rounded picture of Hyde is emerging. That is something that I would not want the occasional challenge to jeopardize.
Mike
Hey Mike, Thanks for your kind and insightful words. I do very much value your posts as well, as I do Emil's! No worries re. occasional challenges; life is too short.
Did you know that was Michelle straining for the finish line in that old B&W photo depicted in last fall's Alumni newsletter? (I think that is what it's called, at any rate, it is available from the school site online.). I believe that might be the fall of 1975, if I am not mistaken... Urs
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on March 06, 2007, 08:55:16 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Mike""
I've reached an age where I have begun researching my past. The Internet makes that possible. I am glad that I discovered this site and had the opportunity to analyze what are arguably the two strangest years of my life. On the other hand, while I am not discounting the painful experiences of others, I do not feel that my experience left any lasting damage. So when you, Ursus, go on record as saying that you are STILL recovering from your Hyde experience, I am bowled over. What could possibly have been so bad? At first, I admit, I thought that you were pathologically vulnerable. Now I'm beginning to wonder if you are not also pathologically vindictive. Forgive me for being so frank, but the explanation was in order.
I still don't understand the relevance of your proverb. Did you really think I was cursing you?
Mike
I am not Ursus, but want to point something out to you Mike. It is obvious to me that Ursus is bitter towards Hyde because he has not had closure. I totally relate to this. I am not sure I would use the word "vindictive" to describe someone who is angry and bitter. True that many times we are angry at ourselves for various reasons like the fact I wish I would have stood up to those scums at Hyde. I am angry at myself that I participated in bullying my classmates by getting caught up in the whole system. We were kids and we were truly brainwashed and for that some of us are angry at ourselves that we succumbed to this. Rather than admonishing Ursus, I believe he needs closure.
Ursus, would it not help to talk to Gary Eskow who is doing an article on Hyde? Would you not feel better knowing that you have helped prevent another child from going through what you and I have? I don't know you, but it always helps me to feel like I have done all I could to "right a wrong." This is not vindictive, it is helping others. I can't imagine looking the other way knowing that many more kids will be traumatized at Hyde when I could have helped to avoid this. It might be just what you need Ursus.
Thank you, kind Guest, for your words of validation. You have no idea how much they mean to me. We really should be sticking together in all this, instead of ripping each other apart.
And I am sorry, Mike, if I seemed at all harsh re. your inserting text into my quote. I am sure it was inadvertant.
You are right, kind Guest, for pointing out that I need closure. It is very difficult to get closure when Hyde is not publically recognized for what it is. Even close friends, not to mention my immediate family, can not possibly understand. Save for this board, I feel so very much alone in this oh too private hell...
Ursus, any chance of my being able to email you privately? Can you give yourself an email address on yahoo or another place so that I can contact you? BTW, I am the "kind guest."
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on March 06, 2007, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
I am not Ursus, but want to point something out to you Mike. It is obvious to me that Ursus is bitter towards Hyde because he has not had closure. I totally relate to this. I am not sure I would use the word "vindictive" to describe someone who is angry and bitter. True that many times we are angry at ourselves for various reasons like the fact I wish I would have stood up to those scums at Hyde. I am angry at myself that I participated in bullying my classmates by getting caught up in the whole system. We were kids and we were truly brainwashed and for that some of us are angry at ourselves that we succumbed to this. Rather than admonishing Ursus, I believe he needs closure.
Ursus, would it not help to talk to Gary Eskow who is doing an article on Hyde? Would you not feel better knowing that you have helped prevent another child from going through what you and I have? I don't know you, but it always helps me to feel like I have done all I could to "right a wrong." This is not vindictive, it is helping others. I can't imagine looking the other way knowing that many more kids will be traumatized at Hyde when I could have helped to avoid this. It might be just what you need Ursus.
Thank you, kind Guest, for your words of validation. You have no idea how much they mean to me. We really should be sticking together in all this, instead of ripping each other apart.
And I am sorry, Mike, if I seemed at all harsh re. your inserting text into my quote. I am sure it was inadvertent.
You are right, kind Guest, for pointing out that I need closure. It is very difficult to get closure when Hyde is not publicly recognized for what it is. Even close friends, not to mention my immediate family, can not possibly understand. Save for this board, I feel so very much alone in this oh too private hell...
Ursus, any chance of my being able to email you privately? Can you give yourself an email address on yahoo or another place so that I can contact you? BTW, I am the "kind guest."
Take the leap to avatar?? ::birthday::
If I remember correctly, I think roughly one third of the members on this forum have zero posts. While some of those are actually there for no good reason, i.e., they have junk websites attached that they (not Fornits) hope you'll visit, most of those zero-post members are probably people who registered for the primary purpose of private mailing someone.
When you register, here is the information that is asked of you: username (your posting ID), email address, password, confirm password. Everything else is optional. The site does not retain the password, although the association of username and email address is fixed, you will need to send a confirmation reply back at some point...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Botched Programming on August 08, 2007, 04:21:13 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Please stop it already. And what exactly is the relevance? Is one of the directors a former classmate of whom you are envious? Is that the reason for posting the bad reviews?
doesn't seem like its reviews or envy here, but someone went from one cult straight to another (Ramtha)?
Hell I have seen many people try to go on this quest for spiritual enlightenment and it just be another cult. Look at the "Hare Krishna" people... " Jim Jones" ( We all know what happened here )... "Charles Manson"... and the latest that I have come across is "Eckhart Tolle" with the "Power Of Now"....
It's amazing how people get on this quest for the "Holy Grail" exploring some type of so called spirituality that is no more than a step away from "Worshiping false gods" ( ::hehehmm:: )
Ron L Hubbard and Bob Dobbs with their scientology getting rich.... I think we need to start our own religon and call ourselves "Fornit-cators"
What brought Vanda Mikoloski back into comedy, now 'Quantum Comedy' after teaching yoga for 9 years? The film "What The Bleep Do We Know," a suggestion by Elaine Hendrix (Jennifer in the film) Vanda’s brother Pavel Mikoloski, and L.A. comic Rick Overton, who encouraged Vanda to develop an act of her own and when she balked, told her "But you're an elder. You've got to give back to the tribe now." Pivotal words for Vanda of whom Bill Maher, a former boyfriend from her days as a comedian in New York says: "Vanda is superbly smart and funny ... funny and smart ... both of those."
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@2
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramtha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramtha): There are many skeptics of Ramtha and JZ Knight's channeling abilities.
Most books regarding Ramtha and RSE come from JZK Publishing, one of the several companies started by JZ Knight. Other books somewhat sympathetic to Ramtha like Finding Enlightenment: Ramtha's School of Ancient Wisdom (See Literature section) have ties to RSE in other ways. J. Gordon Melton, the author of Finding Enlightenment, testified for J.Z. Knight in a 1992 court case against her former husband Jeffrey Knight.
Other skeptics point to Ramtha's story as proof that he does not exist. Ramtha claims to come from the continent of Lemuria and to have conquered Atlantis (which he terms as "Atlatia," which was only one of several major civilizations at his time, he claims). This is easily disputed.
James Randi, a famous skeptic, criticised J.Z. Knight for charging people $700 to attend a retreat on how to become rich and, tongue-in-cheek, suggested that the advice was likely on how to fake channelling [5].
The movie What the Bleep Do We Know!? is also a source of controversy involving Ramtha. Critics of the film describe it as pseudoscientific fiction and not the documentary it claims to be. JZ Knight appears to be "channelling" Ramtha in the film as an example of alleged connections between ancient spiritual beliefs and new discoveries in quantum physics. Two of the three directors of the film are admitted students of RSE.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
source: Me Patient: "Doctor my wife thinks she is a chicken" Doctor: "Send her in to see me" Patient: " I would but I need the eggs"
So who is to say? It is no more bullshit than mormanism, and we are about to get a LDS prez. ( ok maybe a little further fetched) I guess they need the eggs.
Hyde School Bath, ME Graduated: 2006 Student status: Alumni
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 08, 2007, 08:25:01 PM
Life's grand, eh? Check back in another dozen years, I'm sure it'll be something else. To be fair, it'll be something else for most of us.
But tell me, why does this sound like a commercial for a Lifespring seminar?:
Quote from: ""Vanda M.""
About me: Hi! I was a comic in the 80's and now, after a prolonged period of substance abuse, and an entirely-too-serious dalliance with yoga and meditation, I am back to do stand-up about what I really care about, on my terms, creating my own audiences, healing anything that ails anyone through laughter! I'm mostly just working on headaches at this point, but my goal is to restore appendages to their full glory and to have tumors, benign or malignant, melt before our eyes ... Also, anything that may be awry with your car.... Here's the deal that inspires me, especially now that I'm in Hollywood: The more agenda, the less connection. If I remove all the agenda from what I say and do and be, who would that leave me with? I'd say a Vanda who is peaceful and ebullient. My comedy is "an irreverent romp down my twisted spiritual path." Why am I talking in quotes? Come see my show- Enlighten Up!-Aha's and Ha-has w/Vanda & Friends – Spiritual/Metaphysical/Transformational/Enlightened/Conscious/Cosmic/Quantum Comedy that Inspires & Heals Feel free to check me out live at my web site: www.vanda.us (http://www.vanda.us). There's a video demo on there showing my schticky-schtick. I need a boyfriend who is technically adept. Did you hear the word "need"? Oh, that's attractive. I am committed to have myself watch my language, and eradicate all of the "story" from my speaking. Either we are at the source of our reality or not. The sub-atomic realm either responds to my mind or it doesn't. Jesus, I am my own little quantum life coach! If I just stopped using the word "need" everything would be transformed and my level of effectiveness would shoot off the charts. I'll start that today. How come if I practice piano everyday for decades I’m a virtuoso, but if I practice sex I’m a slut? I do practice sex a lot and I’m not getting much better at it. It’s slow going, really. My goal, my intention with my sexual practice, my “Carnegie Hall” if you will, is to reach new levels of surrender and release and intimacy and connectedness and creativity and comfort with a man such that I can walk around naked with no inhibitions in front of him. Like St. Francis of Assisi, I renounce all worldly things like clothing, attracting children and birds, and I walk in front of his family and his entire hometown at the same time telling them what I really, really think.
Who I'd like to meet: Great, like-minded people from everywhere... Great, UN-likeminded people from everywhere... My cousin, Jesse Sykes... the wreckage I left in my wake called "old boyfriends", to whom I owe a huge apology, I am certain... Sorry, gentlemen, I was trapped in a worldview that had it easy for me to leave ... People who love comedy about freeing oneself from the human dilemma... The man of my dreams, with whom I share a big, huge, large, big house overlooking some body of water (and other houses, so we can feel superior)...I am so kidding. I ain't no golddigga ...a visionary who supports me while I be great in the world. He loves the warm, tropical storm that I am. This guy loves luxury and play and fun and ease ... because I will treat him like a king and will devote myself to his flourishing! lots of adventure ... an embarassingly intimate liason, plumbing unknown depths of connectedness... no secrets: raw, human connection ...courageous connection.... a love affair with life and with each other that has everyone around us flourish. We are an incident in human history. We have more fun washing dishes than most couples have on their honeymoon. We spend half our time doubled over in laughter. We have unprecedentedly great sex. Oh God, I said "sex". Now every juvenile little geek will ...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 08, 2007, 08:54:55 PM
I heard John Huston reply "I am just pimping for my baby" when Johnny Carson asked him why he was on the talk show circuit. He had a new movie out.
She is selling. How many times did say sex in there? I have to go pull out my Joni Mitchell CDs and find the song Sex Kills. "Crazy Ions, the balance is undone. ....The oil leaks and the gas spills and sex sells everything. Sex Kills." There is a great Canadian for ya.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 08, 2007, 09:11:18 PM
You're right, now that I re-read it. It's a cross between "This could be your life too, if only you discovered the way of the Rump-tha," and an entry in a dating service description.
{tongue-in-cheek}The somewhat self-congratulatory tone is tempered by the obligatory AA/Narcanon opening lines: "Hi! I was a comic in the 80's and now, after a prolonged period of substance abuse..."
Mmmm. I wonder just what some of the moms of some of the Hyde-DC kids might think of her. Especially the ones who have "juvenile geeks" for sons. And who have difficulty coming up with next month's utility bill, let alone the rent. Let's talk about a shot of reality here.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 09, 2007, 07:04:38 AM
I had a ski instructor that humped the Rumptha. He was pretty good. Visualization, belief and confidence in your self: it works. There is truth in the power of positive thinking stuff. There are limits. I don't think the miners in Utah can visualize their way out. Attitude, while a chief determinate of your success in many situations, will not get the miners to the surface. Of all the one line nostrums from the gurus the one I like best is Forest Gump's assertion that, "Life is like a box of chocolates." I like to sit on Forrest's bench when I am in Savannah and look up at the IPC steeple for falling feathers.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 09, 2007, 02:23:25 PM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Visualization, belief and confidence in your self: it works. There is truth in the power of positive thinking stuff.
Oh, sure... It worked quite well for Nixon. Wonder about all the other people that "confidence" affected.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 09, 2007, 05:49:08 PM
Oddly he is a good example of some one that was able to bend reality. He ran on "Peace with honor" and gave us war. Something on the order of 42 thousand Americans lost their lives on his watch. But it all came back on him. You have to be careful with the Arts. That VooDoo that you do may turn to dodo all over you.
If you factor out the War he was a great president but he will be remembered as a smuck. Ditto for LBJ.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 09, 2007, 06:17:26 PM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Oddly he is a good example of some one that was able to bend reality. He ran on "Peace with honor" and gave us war. Something on the order of 42 thousand Americans lost their lives on his watch. But it all came back on him. You have to be careful with the Arts. That VooDoo that you do may turn to dodo all over you.
If you factor out the War he was a great president but he will be remembered as a smuck. Ditto for LBJ.
No "oddly" about it. He's as good an example as we have that is far enough in the past to dampen current political loyalties, but close enough to the present to tickle some recognition in the brain cells.
Talk about "{v}isualization, belief and confidence in your self" to the degree that the crescendo drowned out all reality all the way up to the presidency and beyond. The "peace" and "honor" dichotomy did more towards slandering the English language than generations of ghetto talk ever could.
Kind of reminds me of someone else we both know, ha!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: lucy on August 10, 2007, 12:11:11 AM
Could you please tell me what this has to do with Hyde School? If we are talking about Cults and Hyde School why don't we talk about how much Hyde is like a Cult? Joe Gauld is not doubt the spriritual leader of this Cult and is just as toxic as Jim Jones or any other Cult Leader. Hyde has it's followers who are mostly weak and lost souls including the parents who attend. I remember one family in particular who is so attached to Hyde in the most perverted and sick way. They were trying so hard to turn their entire body over to Hyde if Joe Gauld would accept them into his arms. Very sad case but very typical. Not sure that Malcolm is any better but guess time will tell when the old man is gone.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 01:34:19 AM
Quote from: ""lucy""
Could you please tell me what this has to do with Hyde School? If we are talking about Cults and Hyde School why don't we talk about how much Hyde is like a Cult? Joe Gauld is not doubt the spriritual leader of this Cult and is just as toxic as Jim Jones or any other Cult Leader. Hyde has it's followers who are mostly weak and lost souls including the parents who attend. I remember one family in particular who is so attached to Hyde in the most perverted and sick way. They were trying so hard to turn their entire body over to Hyde if Joe Gauld would accept them into his arms. Very sad case but very typical. Not sure that Malcolm is any better but guess time will tell when the old man is gone.
Well, Lucy... yes, I do agree with you that Hyde is a cult. Moreover, I also feel that Gauld is a megalomaniac -- not dissimilar to the former president discussed immediately above -- in his self-aggrandizing and reality-defying quest for personal power. Clearly I am not attempting to draw comparisons on the basis of scale of damage. But they are beasts of similar hue.
As to the rationale for this thread, "From One Cult to Another," the first few posts are discussions or reviews or whatever of a film called "What The Bleep," which a former Hyde student was and probably still is involved with. The film is basically an extremely long and involved advertisement for a cult called Ramptha, with which this student has been involved with for quite some time. This student's sister also became involved with this cult and, apparently, has also been involved with Landmark, which certainly carries a cult label around here (not to mention on the Rick Ross site).
It certainly raises the question, eh?, of whether there is something about the "teachings" of Hyde which primed these kids to go this route so thoroughly. We are not talking about a brief dalliance, but more along the order of a decade, perhaps longer in the case of the brother.
It also raises the question of Hyde's possible approval of this involvement, as the sister just received her diploma last summer, having gone back and given a speech to the community as to why she should deserve it (ordinarily her graduation year would have been 1976, if I am not mistaken).
-----------------------------
Can you tell us any more about this family you mention? How were they so attached to Hyde?
Many years ago, I ran into a single mother clerking in a hardware store who, for no reason that I can imagine, as we were total strangers, began telling me her recent life story as if she were on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Apparently she was working several jobs, all to support the financial needs of her son and the school he was attending... HYDE!... "And they need so much, they have such an important job... we as parents... the family meetings..." She looked like she was about to burst into tears. I had blanched the minute she said the name of that nemesis. If I didn't get out of there immediately, I was going to hurl my lunch. So I left in rather a hurry and did not hear the rest of her story. But the look on her face has haunted me to this day. She was desperate, desperate for me to understand whatever she was going through. Always felt like I had completely let this stranger down. But back then, I just couldn't deal with it.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 10, 2007, 07:39:22 AM
Quote
Could you please tell me what this has to do with Hyde School?
Vanda's recent graduation leaves me with questions about Hyde. Does Hyde endorse Knight/Ramtha? Did Hyde just not know about Paul and Vanda's involvement and if so doesn't that belie Hyde's self proclaimed value of diploma if they are willing to give them out with out even a cursor background search. I am really a live and let live kind of guy and I don't want to seem judgmental, but the Ramtha thing really does smell kind of culty and an odd cult at that. With that said if that is what does it for you it is still mostly a free republic, go for it. Hyde holds itself up as a paragon of virtue, I am not sure how being involved in something like that squares with the Hyde ideals. So Like I said: questions. While the hydies pursue this forum I know it is below their standard to reply here, so I know no answer will be forthcoming.
yours ever so egocentrically
JoeSoulBro
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 10:28:52 AM
from the Autumn 2006 edition of the Alumni News:
My name is Vanda Mikoloski and I want to share with you my experience at Hyde and the transformational journey that took me back there 29 years later to graduate.
I went to Hyde in the summer of 1974 at age 15, right after my brother Bryan, the love of my life, died in a drug-related accident. I was a sensitive and confused kid, from a Polish-"American dream" family. My dad was a doctor, and my mom was a nurse; we were privileged and deeply unhappy.
When I went to visit my brother Paul (Pavel) during his summer school, Lynn Thurrell interviewed me. I wanted whatever they were talking about more than anything in the world: that some elusive "spirit" within me would be honored and not just the external trappings of success.
I was enchanted and intrigued by Joe Gauld, his hair and spit flying, face reddening as he yelled about this or that. My God--he cared. I had never witnessed an adult 100% impassioned by a dream.
These were perhaps the most turbulent, ambitious, and media-attended times at Hyde. We were in our adolescence as a school. There were consequences of that ambition, and oversights and mistakes made with the kids. There were times when I felt that I did not have a friend in the world who I could talk to who wouldn't "nail" me. I lost friends who were more "leaders" than I was.
Deeply unhappy, I ran away from Hyde, notwithstanding the warning "If you ever run away from Hyde, you'll never make it in life, because you're running away from yourself." I was planning to go to Oklahoma, as we had done the musical, and I wanted anonymity more than anything. I wanted no one to expect anything of me and to get fat and have a big, dumb boyfriend with a guitar who was happy sitting on a porch with me. That's what I wanted at the time: a Rodgers and Hammerstein production of a life.
When my dad died in a car accident in 1977, I returned to Hyde briefly and then ran away a second time, this time to New York City, because I wanted to be "Afro Latina." Again, this didn't work out for me. I would lie in my flophouse and listen to arguments through the thin walls. I would listen to Billie Holiday and cry about the shambles I had made of my "unique potential." I would pray to my brother and my father, thinking they could guide me, and felt profound despair when I got no response. I was all alone in this world.
Eventually my dear family helped me back to college, and I soon found stand-up comedy and fell in love with it. I developed a risky little act inspired by all the most rebellious comedians of that era. I also developed a few substances abuse issues, always anesthetizing myself rather than visiting the morass of discomfort and sadness within me.
I hated Hyde. I blamed them. Then, I became ambivalent, and would just roll my eyes whenever I got mail from them. It wasn't until six years ago, when I became very interested in "checking in" rather than "checking out," that I realized the power that my forgiveness could have.
I am convinced that all the world's woes boil down to being right and making the other guy wrong. Through Landmark Education, various spiritual teachings, yoga, and meditation, I began to see that if I truly wanted to be a peace activist, if would have something to do with how peaceful I am with everyone in my life, rather than how well I build a case against them. Being "right" has never made a difference. It is my understanding that a "master" has the humility to surrender his own precious perspective long enough to stand in the other guy's shoes.
With the incessant support of Gail Kelly, I began to see that I could find resolution and completion about my Hyde experience. Gail would just listen as I talked. She never tried to get me to see anything or to drop my anger. I felt heard. I decided to put the past in the past and to open up to the love that is there underneath it all.
And so much love there was, and is. Pavel surprised me by flying in from Seattle. Seeing old friends and making new ones was delicious. I had the opportunity to speak to Bob Thurrell, whom I adored, to let him know what a huge heartbreak it was for me when he left school. I was able to mourn the loss of my friend Michelle Correa. Talking through my feelings with Margo Calvetti, Bob Slawson, Robbie Schuller, Spencer Garrett, my old sweetheart Tommy Baez and many others had me look even more closely: Is there a chance that I had been arrogant, spoiled, and difficult? Nah, that couldn't be; or maybe...
Putting together a show with one rehearsal was so sweet. And, we rocked. I flirted outrageously with all the single guys and some of the married ones. I had some serious sober fun with these men and women in their 40s who are like brothers and sisters to me. And what great resources we are for each other!
The graduation ceremony was a chance for me to honor my dad, my family, Joe Gauld's vision, my life, and the others who were there that day to graduate with me. It was a high point of the weekend for many and it was a high point of my life.
I love my life and I am devoted to my career as a "quantum comic" now, doing stand-up comedy at conferences and "New Thought" churches and metaphysical centers about stuff that matters to me with the intention to inspire people through laughter and honesty. You can see a clip of my funny work at www.vanda.us (http://http://www.vanda.us).
I missed those of you who were not there from my era. I invite any of you who feel animosity or ambivalence about your Hyde experience to contact me at www.vanda.us (http://http://www.vanda.us) for the opportunity to be heard. I also invite you to consider visiting Hyde, making peace, and sharing in the love that awaits you there. Please join me in 2008.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 10, 2007, 10:33:43 AM
The more I read about Joe Gauld and Hyde the more it reminds me of Straight and Miller Newton. Seems Joe had more ideas of getting into mainstream schools though. Miller's had a few followers for years. Poor Lulu Corter was with him from the age of 13 - 26. A few of them showed up at a hearing some of us went to a few years back. Newt was trying to start up a church in his neighborhood where he "counsels" young people and provides "spiritual retreat" :roll: and a bunch of us (and his neighbors) showed up to speak against him/the church. The looks on those kids' faces almost brought me to my knees. Vacant and angry at the same time with absolute blind devotion to their leader. It was so frightening yet so familiar. Scary stuff.
Did you guys read the comments underneath the video?
paulagloria (3 months ago) you know it is so annoying when people don't watch the vids they then have the nerve to comment on. Ramtha does not believe in karma. He says that the soul takes on certain challenges in the hopes of owning the experience and bringing it back to the soul as wisdom. Unfinished challenges then get passes into the next body. Hardly Hindu my friend.
tjfnee88 (3 months ago) You're a dumb cunt aren't you? This is almost entirely hindu silly bitch. Too bad you know nothing of india or silly indian beliefs. Here's a test; why doesn't fraud? woman give us the exact location of atlantis? I've seen your other videos paula; you just need to get laid and lay off the anti-depressants. That way you can get back in touch with reality. By the way, you know absolutely shit about quantum physics. Moron.
paulagloria (3 months ago) OK I'll agree my other vids do deal with Hinduism. I didn 't know you watched a lot of my stuff. So you want me to take drugs to get in touch with reality? humm-m-m Sounds like a great topic for a show. thanks for stopping by
rbairos1 (1 month ago) Okay Ive watched this vid. Its scientifically offensive. Growing a tooth is not medically impossible. It happens. In fact, researchers in Canada recently patented a simple device to speed the process. Calling a tooth growing "miraculous" is dishonest. (cont)
paulagloria (1 month ago) woah! you mean youjust watched THIS vid for the first time? Michael Ellner did not talk about growing teeth THAT was the one I wanted you to see. Can you call me directly 212-982-0021 and not take so much attention away from this vid (so we use this forum to address the topics that Pavel brings up) OK?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 10:41:58 AM
Well, here you have it folks, in print and on the Hyde website... Quoted from Vanda's piece in the above Alumni publication:
I am convinced that all the world's woes boil down to being right and making the other guy wrong. Through Landmark Education, various spiritual teachings, yoga, and meditation, I began to see that if I truly wanted to be a peace activist, if would have something to do with how peaceful I am with everyone in my life, rather than how well I build a case against them. Being "right" has never made a difference. It is my understanding that a "master" has the humility to surrender his own precious perspective long enough to stand in the other guy's shoes.
I love my life and I am devoted to my career as a "quantum comic" now, doing stand-up comedy at conferences and "New Thought" churches and metaphysical centers about stuff that matters to me with the intention to inspire people through laughter and honesty. You can see a clip of my funny work at www.vanda.us (http://http://www.vanda.us).[/list] The "quantum comic" refers to her work inspired by and related to the "What the Bleep" Ramptha commercial.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 10:50:57 AM
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
The more I read about Joe Gauld and Hyde the more it reminds me of Straight and Miller Newton. Seems Joe had more ideas of getting into mainstream schools though.
Totally true. He has ambitions of changing the face of American education.
If he and his former and late wife hadn't had such serious drinking problems in the past, I imagine that political aspirations would not have been out of the question.
Perhaps that even factored into his pursuit and seduction of former student Andrea VH. Better arm candy and photo ops.
Quote
paulagloria (1 month ago) woah! you mean youjust watched THIS vid for the first time? Michael Ellner did not talk about growing teeth THAT was the one I wanted you to see. Can you call me directly 212-982-0021 and not take so much attention away from this vid (so we use this forum to address the topics that Pavel brings up) OK?
Is Paul now holding court on the YouTube comments section? Didn't get a chance to read all of the pages... Here is another comment:
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam i was there too.i never saw any of this guys doing the miracules. only hersay about it.ramtha did not get one prediction right during the 5 years i was there.ramthas teachings mostly benefitted jz financely.yes i see value in a historical prozess because it is very intresting that people get hooked with the same tactics than 30 years ago.i think the world schould know whats going on there.thank you for not deleting critical posts.[/list] Note the highlighted spam designation. This is not visible to the ordinary viewer. But when I copied and pasted the whole thing here, it showed up. Hmmm. I guess you have to be logged in on YouTube to see it, ha ha!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 10, 2007, 11:05:53 AM
Quote
It is my understanding that a "master" has the humility to surrender his own precious perspective long enough to stand in the other guy's shoes.
Whoa baby you are wide of the mark, all most maggie's draws.
Yes there was a vid on youtube were Paul spoke about growing new teeth. which elicited my comment "Spooky Tooth"
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anne Bonney on August 10, 2007, 11:10:29 AM
lynnesmith1974 (3 weeks ago) Marked as spam People; wake up. The messages are REAL. For an example, Isaiah, channeled through Amaya. Amayacenter on myspace. They are REAL and asking us to WAKE UP!
:o :o Oh. My. God.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 11:11:11 AM
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam so you interviw this guys and belive what they say?you r not a ramster.you dont realy dont know that the head of the securityguards raped a girl after alcoholabuse in jzs school of ancient wisdom?you post joe dispenzas interview and audry wolfs.diane was the right hand of jz for years.maybe you schould get new interviews.[/list] Well well well... outside of the fact that they clearly don't like this guy, it seems that there are certainly some similar themes and abuses that occur in institutions dedicated to the bending of malleable minds...
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam ye i know jz gives a sch...she has new students and employes every year.or is beeing fired enlightment?good for joe audry diane.......[/list] Guess the door opens frequently for those not in the innermost circle...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 10, 2007, 11:20:31 AM
Quote
Boopsie no longer shares her body with the channeled 25,000-year-old warrior Hunk-Ra
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 11:25:51 AM
Here is an interesting development about Paul:
IslesofTrees (1 week ago) Marked as spam pavel is no longer associated with RSE cults abound enlightenmefree dot com
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam it is true that this is old but I keep it up because it is an important part of an historical process. Don't you think?
IslesofTrees (1 week ago) Marked as spam not at all. people's brains have been horribly scrambled by this woman. PTSD, split personality disorder, etc
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam which woman, me? what is PTSD?[/list][/list] Paulagloria, in case anyone is wondering, is the person who interviews Paul/Pavel in the YouTube video linked above and earlier in this thread. She seems to collect this kind of stuff, in order to present it to the public.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 11:32:13 AM
Amazing find there, Bro!
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Quote
Boopsie no longer shares her body with the channeled 25,000-year-old warrior Hunk-Ra
During her Hollywood heyday, Barbara Ann Boopstein was called "the drinking man's Meryl Streep." Stardom has thus far eluded the Divine Miss B, but she knows it's only a matter of lifetimes. She speaks with a certain authority: in a previous incarnation she was Lorna Doone. Her theatrical credits thus far include numerous exercise videos and several teensploitation flicks. She was featured in the swimsuit issue of Sports Illustrated, played Barbara Bush in the made-for -TV movie Poppy: The War Years, and was mentioned in Andy Warhol's diary. Activities in service to her country include co-hosting the Times Square victory parade marking the end of the Cold War, posing for a popular pinup poster for the Desert Shield troops, and working with the Malibu Military Family Support Group. She served on the California State Task Force to Promote Self-Esteem, and, on the personal front, was delighted to be Babe of Honor at Hugh and Kimberly Hefner's wedding. Regrettably for her fans, she did not make the cut in "Survivor" tryouts. But her body, bit-mapped and scanned, lives on in a variety of media, generating royalties as the template for Lara Croft in "Tomb Raider" and Julia Roberts' breasts in "Erin Brockovich". Having concluded a longtime association, Boopsie no longer shares her body with the channeled 25,000-year-old warrior Hunk-Ra. Along with college sweetheart and Fighting Swooshes football coach B.D., daughter Sam and nanny Zonker Harris, she once again calls Walden home.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 10, 2007, 11:43:38 AM
Damn you blew my cover. Tell every one I am towlie too! I am glad I never told you anything in seminar :)
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 11:49:01 AM
JosephLaveen (3 months ago) Marked as spam "whatever we perceive is what we will believe, whatever we believe is what we will one day achieve and become.." -Michael the Traveler
paulagloria (3 months ago) Marked as spam that's why it is important to see more than social mediocracy presents. Real masters understand how much can be presented without disturbing the students balance with society (which is why it is called "the Great Work") thanks for stopping by![/list]
JosephLaveen (3 months ago) Marked as spam Yes I totally agree paula, to me those that are meant to see and hear will hear and see those that don't will see it in their light review. if they receive a light review ;) or wait maybe we are in our light review! :) To me real masters realize this is an illusion of greater dream that awaits and once we know this we will release ourselves from the chains of ignorance and be in bliss. So be it~! -Michael
paulagloria (3 months ago) Marked as spam are you a ramster?[/list][/list]
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 12:18:31 PM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Damn you blew my cover. Tell every one I am towlie too! I am glad I never told you anything in seminar :)
Oh, I bet you don't even remember what you told me in seminar, Ha Ha! ::hehehmm:: ::hehehmm:: ::hehehmm::
Anything like those "red flag touches?"
Title: Hello Canada
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 12:19:39 PM
Quote from: ""Uneasy Rider""
Miller Newton touched my junk liberally. He strapped me in to his Straightmobile and he couldnt keep his offensive hands off of me. He was performing many red flag touches. I couldnt believe what the fuck was going on. I told Miller Newton the city would not approve of a millionaire touching an underage kid for free. Can you believe it? Miller Newton did all this. He picked me off the street, strapped my arms and legs down in the Straightmobile's passenger seat, and just wouldn't stop fondling my cock'n'balls.
They definately were red flag touches. The goddamn referee he had in the back seat kept on raising up this red flag every time he touched my junk but did "Dr." Newton care? NO WAY! He just kept on doing it. I couldn't believe what the fuck was going on, indeed. I pleaded with Miller Newton but to no avail. I told him the city would not approve of such a wealthy man touching an underage kid like me (at the time I was 13) without at least compensating me for the trauma and the use of my body as his own personal plaything.
This got to him, worrying about his image. he continued to fondle me, all the while ignoring the referee's red flags. Then he drove the Straightmobile to my house and ejected the seat I was in! It was amazing. But surprisingly, after I woke up the next morning, my bank account had $150k in it!!! Can you believe it?????
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 12:28:49 PM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
life is but a dream http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row,_Row,_Row_Your_Boat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row,_Row,_Row_Your_Boat)
Vanda might like this part:
Quote
The lyrics have often been used as a metaphor for life's difficult choices, and many see the boat as referring to one's self or a group which one identifies with [1]. Rowing is a skilful, if tedious, practice that takes perfection but also directs the vessel [2]. When sung as a group, the act of rowing becomes a unifier, as oars must be in sync in a rowboat. The idea that man travels along a certain stream, suggests boundaries in the path of choices and in free will [3]. The third line recommends that challenges should be greeted in stride while open to joy with a smile [4]. The final line, life is but a dream, is perhaps the most meaningful [5]. In a religious setting, life and the physical plane can become a veil or dreamlike state that man must awake from. Conversely, the line can just as equally convey nihilist sentiments on the meaninglessness of man's actions. The line is also commonly sung as "life is like a dream" rather than "life is but a dream", possibly to sound happier, less meaningful, and more appropriate for its audience of young children.
I prefer this alternate lyric, which I am sure many remember from their childhood:
Row, row, row the boat Gently down the stream Throw your teachers overboard And listen to them scream![/list]
Title: Re: Hello Canada
Post by: Froderik on August 10, 2007, 12:38:17 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Uneasy Rider""
Miller Newton touched my junk liberally. He strapped me in to his Straightmobile and he couldnt keep his offensive hands off of me. He was performing many red flag touches. I couldnt believe what the fuck was going on. I told Miller Newton the city would not approve of a millionaire touching an underage kid for free. Can you believe it? Miller Newton did all this. He picked me off the street, strapped my arms and legs down in the Straightmobile's passenger seat, and just wouldn't stop fondling my cock'n'balls.
They definately were red flag touches. The goddamn referee he had in the back seat kept on raising up this red flag every time he touched my junk but did "Dr." Newton care? NO WAY! He just kept on doing it. I couldn't believe what the fuck was going on, indeed. I pleaded with Miller Newton but to no avail. I told him the city would not approve of such a wealthy man touching an underage kid like me (at the time I was 13) without at least compensating me for the trauma and the use of my body as his own personal plaything.
This got to him, worrying about his image. he continued to fondle me, all the while ignoring the referee's red flags. Then he drove the Straightmobile to my house and ejected the seat I was in! It was amazing. But surprisingly, after I woke up the next morning, my bank account had $150k in it!!! Can you believe it?????
:rofl: :rofl: :o :o :o ::bwahaha::
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 10, 2007, 12:50:18 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Damn you blew my cover. Tell every one I am towlie too! I am glad I never told you anything in seminar :)
Oh, I bet you don't even remember what you told me in seminar, Ha Ha! ::hehehmm:: ::hehehmm:: ::hehehmm::
Anything like those "red flag touches?"
I think told you about my homo erotic thoughts during wrestling practice.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 12:55:51 PM
Yah... Henry Milton was pretty good about encouraging those, eh? Just what exactly is he doing in down in Florida, where Miller Newton happens to reside, of all coincidences... Maybe they're living it up, fondling junk, in hot and steamy KissimmeeAss country... ::hehehmm:: ::hehehmm::
==========================
On a more serious note, I am returning to the comments section of Paul's YouTube video and I am reposting some of them, this time a whole block of them, in order... I was not fully able to appreciate their context until I went to the section where all 47 comments are amassed in their entirety and in chronologically order starting with the oldest.
Apparently, it was Paul who got fired from that sleazoid mind fucker JZKnight, corporation of suck-you-off 'till you've got nothing left to give.
IslesofTrees (1 week ago) Marked as spam pavel is no longer associated with RSE cults abound enlightenmefree dot com
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam it is true that this is old but I keep it up because it is an important part of an historical process. Don't you think?
IslesofTrees (1 week ago) Marked as spam not at all. people's brains have been horribly scrambled by this woman. PTSD, split personality disorder, etc
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam which woman, me? what is PTSD?[/list]
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam jz knight made this all up.how do you feel nowadays beeing fired pavel?you still use ramthas brainwashvocabluary?
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam did you know the man who started National Cash register (in 1875 or so) fired people all the time? Yet going through NCR was like business school in those days with every top CEO in the country having an NCR stint behind him.
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam ye i know jz gives a sch...she has new students and employes every year.or is beeing fired enlightment?good for joe audry diane.......
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam I appreciate your experience but want to remind you that this is a public board with many who do not have more "inside" knowledge so if you could keep in mind many who may not understand what you are saying and go more slowly and elaborate we might all benefit more. I don't know who joe or diane is....so others will also not know
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam so you interviw this guys and belive what they say?you r not a ramster.you dont realy dont know that the head of the securityguards raped a girl after alcoholabuse in jzs school of ancient wisdom?you post joe dispenzas interview and audry wolfs.diane was the right hand of jz for years.maybe you schould get new interviews.
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam so you do not see value in historical process? I'm up for new interviews. I really want to get Audrey again...you should take a look at my "Direct Personal experience with spirituality and sex pt 3" where I talk about my experience with the RSE. I was in blue college for a while until I studied with SSKS.
fufight (1 week ago) Marked as spam i was there too.i never saw any of this guys doing the miracules. only hersay about it.ramtha did not get one prediction right during the 5 years i was there.ramthas teachings mostly benefitted jz financely.yes i see value in a historical prozess because it is very intresting that people get hooked with the same tactics than 30 years ago.i think the world schould know whats going on there.thank you for not deleting critical posts.
paulagloria (1 week ago) Marked as spam thanks for staying connected here....no I do not delete critical posts especially when there is disagreement. did you check out the link I posted above? It takes awhile to get to the point about RSE vs my experience with Ramtha and the Great WORK. Miracles are a big deal so to continue you have to hear it (not the one of audrey sitting but me sitting near a table with red curtains behind me...) you and I have different opinions here...lets stay with this.
fufight (5 days ago) Marked as spam fact is the glass is halv full or hav empty there is still the realaty of the glass.if you need to drink for spirituell insights well.. not having a hangover means you were on your way getting an alcolic.you took rams advice to drink every morning a glas of red wine and the day will be miraculess serious?[/list][/list]
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 10, 2007, 01:23:55 PM
So what is Paul doing now if he is no longer working for Knight? Head of School for the Bath campus? Maybe he can use some of those "Master Skills" and fill all the first year student slots.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 01:31:20 PM
IT'S ABOUT TIME!
http://www.enlightenmefree.com/ (http://www.enlightenmefree.com/) The Enlighten Me Free (EMF) website has been created, in part, to make public some questions regarding the authenticity of the alleged channeling of the entity "Ramtha."
We are former students of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment (RSE) from various worldwide locations who have come to seriously question whether "Ramtha" is real and whether or not the whole concept of "channeling" as it exists within the New Age movement is valid.
Our primary purpose with this website is to provide an online support community. Within it we will provide space for networking, educational information, opinion sharing, asking questions, and sharing of facts. There are also ongoing physical support meetings with L.A.R.S.E. (Life After RSE) participants. We welcome participation from people who have also been affected with doubts from experiences connected to RSE.
If you are a current, former, or prospective student of "Ramtha"; and have no doubts or issues about his "teachings", then this may not be the place for you. The information provided on this site is the observation and/or opinion of the writers. EMF & L.A.R.S.E. are independent and have no affiliation with JZK, Inc., or Ramtha's School of Enlightenment. Please read the disclaimer page. To contact EMF email info@enlightenmefree.com
"The truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it, ignorance my deride it, but in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill~
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 01:39:00 PM
A healthy dose of doubt is the link to being free from the mind control of a such a group. Therefore, it is a sure bet that suspension of critical thinking is strongly discouraged! One may even be told that doubt will sabotage any spiritual awakening from unfolding. To a sincere student, that is frightening. So, the student self-monitors their thoughts, and keeps them in control, within the boundaries of the accepted groupthink that is prevalent. This becomes of paramount importance to a group member, as they view this abolishment of doubt as a gauge to their attainment of enlightenment.
Furthermore, while in the midst of the group consensus mindset, a student is in a highly suggestible state. Wikipedia describes this well.
"A person is deemed to be suggestible if they accept and act on suggestions by others. Clearly, everyone acts at some point in their lives by the suggestions given by someone else, but some individuals can be more suggestible than others. Television is one example of this as some individuals see dangerous acts on television and try to perform the acts themselves. This is an example of technological determinism.
A person experiencing intense emotions tends to be more receptive to ideas and therefore more suggestible. Young children are generally more suggestible than older children who are more suggestible than adults.
However, psychologists have found that individual levels of self-esteem, assertiveness, and other qualities can make some people more suggestible than others — i.e. they act on others' suggestions more of the time than other people. This has resulted in this being seen as a spectrum of suggestibility.
This has ramifications in the scientific research of hypnosis. The person under hypnosis may not actually be entering a different psychological state, but rather just acting on social pressure. It is easier for them to comply than to disobey. However, hypnosis has also helped people to deal with difficult issues, such as quitting smoking, with effects that endure even when the hypnotist is no longer present.
It is claimed that sufferers of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Dissociative Identity Disorder are particularly suggestible. While it is true that DID sufferers tend to score to the higher end of the hypnotizability scale, there have not been enough studies done to support the claim of increased suggestibility." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestibility)
How many times have group members complied when something inside of them nagged at them, that what they were doing was wrong, or at least wrong for them ? Suggestibility has been studied and it is a reaction in the neo-cortex of the brain. The article at this website http://www.trowbridgefoundation.org/doc ... bility.htm (http://www.trowbridgefoundation.org/docs/suggestibility.htm) details the process of suggestibity in a person and the outcome of what they recall, say, or respond to after being pressured from an external source. Suggestibility is not gullibility. It is the measure of intensity with which the brain and nervous system accept and respond to incoming ideas. In hypnosis both body and mind are more suggestible.
Perhaps you, the reader, can see where mind control, brainwashing, suggestibility, all fit together to gain a sincere spiritual seeker-student into the Mind Trap of such a group. It has nothing to do with intelligence, naivete, or anything of that sort.
Mind control (also referred to as “brainwashing,” “coercive persuasion,” “thought reform,” and the “systematic manipulation of psychological and social influence”) refers to a process in which a group or individual systematically uses unethically manipulative methods to persuade others to conform to the wishes of the manipulator(s), often to the detriment of the person being manipulated.
Such methods include:
extensive control of information in order to limit alternatives from which members may make “choices”;
deception;
group pressure;
intense indoctrination into a belief system that denigrates independent critical thinking and considers the world outside the group to be threatening, evil, or gravely in error;
an insistence that members’ distress—much of which may consist of anxiety and guilt subtly induced by the group—can be relieved only by conforming to the group;
physical and/or psychological debilitation through inadequate diet or fatigue;
the induction of dissociative (trance-like) states (via the misuse of meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, and other exercises) in which attention is narrowed, suggestibility heightened, and independent critical thinking weakened;
alternation of harshness/threats and leniency/love, in order to effect compliance with the leadership’s wishes;
isolation from social supports;
and pressured public confessions.
Although the process by which cults come to exercise mind control over members is complex and varies a great deal, there appear to be three overlapping stages:
Deception Recruits are duped into believing that the group is benevolent and will enrich their lives by, for example, advancing their spirituality or increasing their self-esteem and security. As a result of this deception and the systematic use of highly manipulative techniques of influence, recruits come to commit themselves to the group’s prescribed ways of thinking, feeling, and acting; in other words, they become members or converts.
Dependency By gradually isolating members from outside influences, establishing unrealistically high and guilt-inducing expectations, punishing any expressions of “negativity,” and denigrating independent, critical thinking, the group causes members to become extremely dependent on the group’s compliance-oriented expressions of love and support.
Dread Once a state of dependency is firmly established, the group’s control over members’ thoughts, feelings, and behavior is strengthened by the members’ growing dread of losing the group’s psychological support (physical threats also occur in some groups), however much it may aim at ensuring their compliance with leadership’s often debilitating demands.[/list] Getting Sprung from the Snare
Leaving a group such as this is usually not easy. Why? Because there are "costs" associated with leaving. One can look at themselves and evaluate the mental, emotional, physical and spiritual costs of leaving. They face issues such as these and before actual leaving, a person may cling to the group and play mind games with themselves (defense mechanisms) to keep themselves from having to deal with the effects of leaving. One may justify behaviors to themselves to stay in the group, though they know they need to get out. It's necessary to face the emotional cost of exiting such a group, such as leaving friends, who will probably abandon you. Facing the psychological and emotional issues of leaving; shame, depression, isolation, sadness, guilt, anger, abandonment, betrayal, confusion, lost self-esteem. Physically, it's not unheard of for people to delay leaving a group even when they know it's over, because of the emotional impact of moving on.
* "People leave cults for a variety of reasons. After becoming aware of hypocrisy and/or corruption within the group, converts who have maintained an element of independence and some connection with their old values may simply walk out disillusioned. Other members may leave because they have become weary of a routine of proselytizing and fund-raising. Sometimes even the most dedicated members may feel so inadequate in the face of the cult’s demands that they walk away, not because they have stopped believing, but because they feel like abject failures. Still others may renounce the cult after reconnecting to old values, goals, interests, or relationships, resulting from visits with parents, talks with ex-members, or counseling.
Persons who consider leaving a group such as this, are usually pressured to stay. Some ex-members say that they spent months, even years, trying to garner the strength to walk out. Some felt so intimidated that they departed secretly.
Although most group members eventually walk out on their own, parental alarm should not be discounted. First, many, if not most, who leave cults on their own are psychologically harmed, often in ways which they do not understand. Second, some cultists never leave, and some of these are severely harmed. And third, there is no way to predict who will leave, who won’t leave, or who will be harmed."
* Excerpted from http://www.rickross.com/reference/singer/singer7.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/singer/singer7.html) It is suggested that you just take the time to read the entire article.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 01:44:59 PM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
So what is Paul doing now if he is no longer working for Knight? Head of School for the Bath campus? Maybe he can use some of those "Master Skills" and fill all the first year student slots.
Personally, I think Gail Kelly might be more suitable for -- or beneficial to -- the school in that position, but I doubt that she could stomach it. She'd be flanked by the entire gaggle of the old guard (in mindset).
I was also wondering as to the potential impact this development might have on Vanda's comedy routine.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 02:04:24 PM
Jeff Knight, JZ's former husband, recorded this as a warning to other RSE students in 1992. I'm not sure about the details yet, but apparently she was totally screwing him over in a divorce proceeding at the time or shortly after this time as well.
The video was allegedly never made public, for reasons I'm not entirely clear about, and he ended up dieing in 1994 from complications due to AIDS. This video is dedicated to his memory.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 10, 2007, 02:17:49 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
So what is Paul doing now if he is no longer working for Knight? Head of School for the Bath campus? Maybe he can use some of those "Master Skills" and fill all the first year student slots.
Personally, I think Gail Kelly might be more suitable for -- or beneficial to -- the school in that position, but I doubt that she could stomach it. She'd be flanked by the entire gaggle of the old guard (in mindset).
I was also wondering as to the potential impact this development might have on Vanda's comedy routine.
That is not a bad idea .... so it will never happen.
I have seen Vanda's stuff on youtube. She should go back to singing. She had a beautiful voice. Vanda and Gail were the only ones in A.S. that could sing on key consistently. You could use Paul's voice to strip wall paper, peel paint or turn milk sour.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 10, 2007, 03:57:40 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Jeff Knight, JZ's former husband, recorded this as a warning to other RSE students in 1992. I'm not sure about the details yet, but apparently she was totally screwing him over in a divorce proceeding at the time or shortly after this time as well.
The video was allegedly never made public, for reasons I'm not entirely clear about, and he ended up dieing in 1994 from complications due to AIDS. This video is dedicated to his memory.
I read some where that Ramtha told him to imagine his way out of AIDs Life is but a dream but you still have them banks on the side.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 04:32:37 PM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Jeff Knight, JZ's former husband, recorded this as a warning to other RSE students in 1992. I'm not sure about the details yet, but apparently she was totally screwing him over in a divorce proceeding at the time or shortly after this time as well.
The video was allegedly never made public, for reasons I'm not entirely clear about, and he ended up dieing in 1994 from complications due to AIDS. This video is dedicated to his memory.
I read some where that Ramtha told him to imagine his way out of AIDs Life is but a dream but you still have them banks on the side.
That would not surprise me. Certainly that vibe comes through even from Paul's video alone. http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=20404&start=13 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=20404&start=13)
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 06:08:35 PM
Here's a video filled with numerous clips of news bits and interviews... Jeff Knight mentions being told by Ramtha that medicine will not cure him of his HIV, only Jeff himself can do that and that Ramtha will teach him how. I believe he learned of his HIV status in 1985. He consequently sought little or no medical intervention to combat the disease.
Jeff Knight and JZ separated in 1988, divorced in 1989. She had found someone else. He remained a faithful follower of the cult despite this demotion in status, and access to Ramptha, 'till August of 1991. This compilation of news clips was put together in 1992. Jeff Knight died of AIDS in 1994.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 10, 2007, 10:24:40 PM
I am trying to imagine a reality where the Red Sox break the 5 to 5 tie.
Curiouser and Curiouser. Just watch a bunch of the Videos. It is enough to make me a strict reality constructionist. I think I am going to go to church this Sunday with some Calvinist. I hope Paul did get another job.
Crisp just got a single. It is working! Go Sox.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 10, 2007, 11:07:56 PM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Curiouser and Curiouser. Just watch a bunch of the Videos. It is enough to make me a strict reality constructionist. I think I am going to go to church this Sunday with some Calvinist. I hope Paul did get another job.
I think your upbringing, not to mention your viciously sardonic bent, was significantly more reality-based than Paul and Vanda's. No amount of "character education" can alter that to any measurable degree. It is what it is. You got lucky via your birthright. Count your blessings.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 11, 2007, 12:00:05 AM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
...Curiouser and Curiouser. Just watch a bunch of the Videos.
I've been working my way through the ones from that website, plus the ones linked to those... Pretty draining for me, have to stop from time to time. But here's an oldy but goody, ha haa! ...recognizable to anyone who's been following the business here for the past year or so...
MIND CONTROL MADE EASY or How to Become a Cult Leader http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E)
Here's another one about the manipulation of people's perceptions and sense of self. I knew about Project Paperclip, but had forgotten about it... This one's a bit limited in scope and very American-establishment-oriented. In fact, mind control experiments did not start with the Nazi's, but rather much earlier... at least as far back as the issues between the Chinese Communists, Chiang Kai-Shek, and the Japanese (1920s/30s?), and I doubt very much that Hitler's vision was as consciously enacted or as global as they imply... but let me also tell you flat out that I probably know less about this than I think I do so take my political ramblings with a grain of salt...
CIA MIND CONTROL EXPERIMENTS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSOOK3tocTk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSOOK3tocTk)
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2007, 11:08:14 PM
Paul is okay, out of the country, wants nothing to do with RSE and JZ Knight.
Vanda... still believes in Ramtha.
Title: judgemental
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 18, 2007, 11:36:21 AM
As I have said before, I don't like to be judgmental but I am happy to hear about Paul's discovery on the road to Damascus. I hope the same for Vanda.
There but for the grace of God go I. I once almost got on a Moonie bus in Palo Alto. I had one foot in and my girlfriend grabbed me and pulled me back. Thanks Marie, where ever you are now.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 20, 2007, 03:02:22 AM
I have been spending some time working my way through some of the LARSE videos... No small task this, some of these are incredibly long. I take them in in bits and pieces. The more I see, the more I revisit my contention that Hyde School is a cult. No two ways about it. And the effects it has on people are long term and insidious and, ultimately, destructive, in all too many cases... even for some people who were deemed a "success" while at Hyde...
I am glad Paul is out. I wish him well, though I suspect this is just the beginning in getting his self back. I personally think a lot of it was already stripped by his experience at Hyde, though I kinda doubt he would agree with me.
In some respects, I'm not too surprised that Vanda is still entrenched in the RSE fold. She's bet too much of her ego on that gravy train and done so most publicly. It'll take some time before those commitments will have faded sufficiently into the past for her to rethink directions.
Let me say it again: there was something at Hyde that caused these two to be all that more vulnerable to a New Age huckster like JZ. It was drilled into our minds to follow the leader; critical thinking was discouraged when not downright punished; our inner voices were portrayed as rebellious selfishness and malcontent.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 20, 2007, 07:19:58 AM
Quote
my contention that Hyde School is a cult.
"Cult inexactly refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream"
"A little-known example is the Alexander and Rollins, 1984, scientific study concluding that the socially well-received group Alcoholics Anonymous is a cult,[2] yet Vaillant, 2005, further concluded that AA is beneficial. [3]"
"A cult of personality is the same as from general hero worship in that it is specifically built around political leaders. However, the term cult of personality is often applied by analogy to refer to adulation of non-political leaders; an argument could easily be made, however, that the only notable differences to be found between the terms "hero worship," "cult of personality," or even, more simply, excessive admiration are largely in the context of the person making the accusation."
there was something at Hyde that caused these two .....
I don't think there is a cause and effect relationship. Success at Hyde predisposes one to enter into a similar relationship with an authority figure where that figure brings you into a set of beliefs that are in opposition to those generally held by the rest of the culture, if the individual found pleasure in that relationship What are the effective differences between Hyde's '70's "National Commitment" and the RSE "Great Work"? If you liked NC whats not to like about the "Great Work"? That is why Hollywood makes sequels Jesus and the apostles may have been the prototype. The original is always the best in my book, with the possible exception of Derek and the Dominoes cover of Little Wing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Wing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Wing) Didn't Paul play Jesus in some production?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 20, 2007, 10:59:56 AM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
I don't think there is a cause and effect relationship. Success at Hyde predisposes one to enter into a similar relationship with an authority figure where that figure brings you into a set of beliefs that are in opposition to those generally held by the rest of the culture, if the individual found pleasure in that relationship
I agree that it is not as simple as "a cause and effect relationship." But I also think that there is a certain time in the course of a human being's development when nurturing and bolstering the capacity for critical thinking is supposed to happen, and that is adolescence. And that growth stage is absolutely squashed at Hyde, almost by definition, really, of the institution's modus operandi, and sometimes with lifelong consequences.
Interesting that you paint a picture not unlike that of an addict switching poisons as a means to a "cure," and the role pleasure principles play in this. For myself, the Hyde experience proved to be so toxic that, once I finally got myself back on my feet, I've been so leery of anything that even remotely smacks of "group" that my life has definitely become the poorer for it. Crippled, really, but maybe that is just my perspective. Well... at least I am still alive.
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Didn't Paul play Jesus in some production?
Ha ha! I can't remember anything like that (not that that means anything), but he certainly would have been a good choice for the part! I can absolutely picture him, clear as a bell (maybe that's my memory?).
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on August 20, 2007, 11:12:34 AM
Vanda is reliving her childhood. The Rabbit hole tour is America's Spirit Redux, or Rabbit Redux, thanks John Updike.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 20, 2007, 09:14:29 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Vanda is reliving her childhood. The Rabbit hole tour is America's Spirit Redux, or Rabbit Redux, thanks John Updike.
:rofl: Bunnies generally tell short (lived?) tales, or maybe it is that they have short tails... can't remember...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on August 27, 2007, 06:57:19 PM
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Didn't Paul play Jesus in some production?
Yes! America's Spirit does Jesus Christ Superstar! It was awesome! Vanda was Mary Mag.!! Hmm.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 27, 2007, 07:07:39 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Didn't Paul play Jesus in some production?
Yes! America's Spirit does Jesus Christ Superstar! It was awesome! Vanda was Mary Mag.!! Hmm.
:rofl: :rofl: Oh, for crying out loud! And then these two end up doing the Rumpa-pah-pah! Just what exactly does that tell you, folks!?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on August 27, 2007, 07:58:35 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Didn't Paul play Jesus in some production?
Yes! America's Spirit does Jesus Christ Superstar! It was awesome! Vanda was Mary Mag.!! Hmm.
She was a sweet Mary M.
"I don't know how to love him"
None of us believed that for a minute.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on August 27, 2007, 08:18:33 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""JoeSoulBro""
Didn't Paul play Jesus in some production?
Yes! America's Spirit does Jesus Christ Superstar! It was awesome! Vanda was Mary Mag.!! Hmm.
She was a sweet Mary M.
"I don't know how to love him"
None of us believed that for a minute.
Okay, this I seem to remember. Perhaps it was the crispness of that dichotomy.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on August 27, 2007, 08:36:10 PM
"and I have had so many men before, in very many ways"
Maybe Sumner should have sung that.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on September 11, 2007, 11:40:58 AM
I'm guessing this is Vanda these days, middle photo, far left, all dressed in white...
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Jesus H Christ on September 11, 2007, 12:34:09 PM
back row left to right:
Vanda , Don't Know, don't know, Kelley Winn, Peter Love, Larry D, Tommy Baez, Jackie Blevins, Laura Denton, Don't Know
Front
Don't know ,The Famous Mr Black
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 12:55:30 PM
That should be Beth Denton not Laura
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 01:09:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
That should be Beth Denton not Laura
Nice catch. I agree. Well, it's definitely not Laura.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on September 11, 2007, 04:01:10 PM
I am assuming the flanking photos are both of Jeff Black (Hyde days, and currently)? Anyone remember his older brother Chris?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 04:18:37 PM
Is that Sarah Carlin in the front? Old eyes fail me.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 04:24:42 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I am assuming the flanking photos are both of Jeff Black (Hyde days, and currently)? Anyone remember his older brother Chris?
Yes those are Jeff. I think I remember a Black that was there and dropped out. The whole Hyde connection seems to have worked to Jeff's advantage. He has got control of this Dad's business. He has the big chair at his Dad's school. I wonder about guys like that, if they ever have self doubt, never having to prove themselves in an environment that was not tilled in their favor by consanguinity. Does Malcolm thinks about it? Is it an indication of a character flaw or weakness, not to strike out and make a mark that is purely your own. Maybe if you get good tee times you don't think about it.
You will be sad to note the reunion has been postponed to next year.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on September 11, 2007, 05:06:04 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I am assuming the flanking photos are both of Jeff Black (Hyde days, and currently)? Anyone remember his older brother Chris?
Yes those are Jeff. I think I remember a Black that was there and dropped out. The whole Hyde connection seems to have worked to Jeff's advantage. He has got control of this Dad's business. He has the big chair at his Dad's school. I wonder about guys like that, if they ever have self doubt, never having to prove themselves in an environment that was not tilled in their favor by consanguinity. Does Malcolm thinks about it? Is it an indication of a character flaw or weakness, not to strike out and make a mark that is purely your own. Maybe if you get good tee times you don't think about it.
You will be sad to note the reunion has been postponed to next year.
Ha ha haaa! I have no illusions as to just how welcome I might be there, I think I'll pass... gas... ::kma::
If I remember correctly, there were 3 Black brothers. I don't remember what happened to the oldest, they were always giving Chris grief, perhaps it was he who dropped out, and then there was Jeff. Chris looked a lot different than Jeff, at least back then. Maybe they look more similar now.
As to the rest of your post, I must say that you put it quite tactfully. I, myself, might not have been so nice. It is a fact of life that some of the progeny stay closer to the nest, and some venture further afield. I should hope that in my old age, some one in the next generation might concern themselves so astutely for my well being. That's not the same thing, I know, although it does seem to translate into that, where Hyde enters into the picture. When coated with that oil slick that is Hyde, such demonstrations of filial loyalty take on a righteous hue that is altogether not very attractive.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 07:44:33 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I am assuming the flanking photos are both of Jeff Black (Hyde days, and currently)? Anyone remember his older brother Chris?
Yes those are Jeff. I think I remember a Black that was there and dropped out. The whole Hyde connection seems to have worked to Jeff's advantage. He has got control of this Dad's business. He has the big chair at his Dad's school. I wonder about guys like that, if they ever have self doubt, never having to prove themselves in an environment that was not tilled in their favor by consanguinity. Does Malcolm thinks about it? Is it an indication of a character flaw or weakness, not to strike out and make a mark that is purely your own. Maybe if you get good tee times you don't think about it.
You will be sad to note the reunion has been postponed to next year.
Ha ha haaa! I have no illusions as to just how welcome I might be there, I think I'll pass... gas... ::kma::
If I remember correctly, there were 3 Black brothers. I don't remember what happened to the oldest, they were always giving Chris grief, perhaps it was he who dropped out, and then there was Jeff. Chris looked a lot different than Jeff, at least back then. Maybe they look more similar now.
As to the rest of your post, I must say that you put it quite tactfully. I, myself, might not have been so nice. It is a fact of life that some of the progeny stay closer to the nest, and some venture further afield. I should hope that in my old age, some one in the next generation might concern themselves so astutely for my well being. That's not the same thing, I know, although it does seem to translate into that, where Hyde enters into the picture. When coated with that oil slick that is Hyde, such demonstrations of filial loyalty take on a righteous hue that is altogether not very attractive.
Filially. Funny. I was watching Triumph of the Will a while back. Here is a clip where the youth of the nation are addressed:
ToTW has some really beautiful cinematography. On the DVD release there is a commentary tract where the the word filialty was use to describe the way the underlings interacted with Hitler.
I had a dream the other night. I my dream Joe was lecturing us on our lack of character. It was one of those rants where he was red in the face and throwing his arms wildly. He said "you know the problem with the Germany people? It is the same as your problem. The Germans had no character. They just sat there and let that man stand of front of them and rant" Some one got up and said, "Yeah, you are right that is why we sit here and listen to you" At that point Joe melts just like the Wicked Witch of the West does when Dorothy pours water on her. "W A T E R yes Helen yes!"
I was thinking about reworking "I dreamed I saw Joe Hill"
I dreamed I saw Joe Gauld last night Ranting at you and me Complaining about the way the good Germans show Hitler filially. Just then some one stood up and Said "Hey Joe you are just like him" He desolved into a cloud of dust just like he had never been.
I don't mean to pick on an old man like Joe but I really did have that dream. It was very wierd.
BTW that is not Sara. I think the second woman is Tammi Lund and the man on the end is John Spira
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on September 11, 2007, 07:50:17 PM
ToTW has some really beautiful cinematography. On the DVD release there is a commentary tract where the the word filialty was use to describe the way the underlings interacted with Hitler.
I had a dream the other night. I my dream Joe was lecturing us on our lack of character. It was one of those rants where he was red in the face and throwing his arms wildly. He said "you know the problem with the Germany people? It is the same as your problem. The Germans had no character. They just sat there and let that man stand of front of them and rant" Some one got up and said, "Yeah, you are right that is why we sit here and listen to you" At that point Joe melts just like the Wicked Witch of the West does when Dorothy pours water on her. "W A T E R yes Helen yes!"
I was thinking about reworking "I dreamed I saw Joe Hill"
I dreamed I saw Joe Gauld last night Ranting at you and me Complaining about the way the good Germans show Hitler filially. Just then some one stood up and Said "Hey Joe you are just like him" He desolved into a cloud of dust just like he had never been.
I don't mean to pick on an old man like Joe but I really did have that dream. It was very wierd.
BTW that is not Sara. I think the second woman is Tammi Lund and the man on the end is John Spira
Man, you really covered some territory there... Triumph of the Will... (fade into) Joe Gauld... (fade into) The Wizard of Oz... slip in a little reference to Anne Sullivan with Helen Keller... (fade into) Joe Gauld superimposed on Joe Hill in the land of Oz! My my!
I actually did see Triumph of the Will, the full 2 hours or however long it was, quite some time ago. I also saw Das Blaue Licht. Almost prophetic, when you think about it... Leni Reifenstahl played the protagonist Junta in her first film (as a director), a feature film with a plot that she had more than a heavy hand in writing, and it ends up foretelling what ends up happening to her in real life, career wise, metaphorically...
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were to come to light that Joe Gauld had studied Triumph of the Will prior to or shortly after starting Hyde. :D
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2007, 02:31:13 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I had a dream the other night. I my dream Joe was lecturing us on our lack of character. It was one of those rants where he was red in the face and throwing his arms wildly. He said "you know the problem with the Germany people? It is the same as your problem. The Germans had no character. They just sat there and let that man stand of front of them and rant"
umm... i think this really did happen! it seems so familiar to me... for some reason i am remembering the term "backbone" (instead of "character")... or maybe it was "guts"
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2007, 12:20:31 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I'm guessing this is Vanda these days, middle photo, far left, all dressed in white...
Is this a recent photo? Why would Larry Dubinsky be participating in Hyde activities when he was fired for fondling a female underage student? Did he learn this type of "character education" at Hyde School? Guess you can't blame the guy. At Hyde they say,"the apple doesn't fall far" and he has surely been around Hyde most of his life! Wonder who his mentor was? Taught him well..........not!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Joseph W. Gauld on September 12, 2007, 03:08:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I'm guessing this is Vanda these days, middle photo, far left, all dressed in white...
Is this a recent photo? Why would Larry Dubinsky be participating in Hyde activities when he was fired for fondling a female underage student? Did he learn this type of "character education" at Hyde School? Guess you can't blame the guy. At Hyde they say,"the apple doesn't fall far" and he has surely been around Hyde most of his life! Wonder who his mentor was? Taught him well..........not!
Face it, Sweetie, Larry was just following protocol. He was following a fine, long-standing tradition of adult-child "mentorship" that we've had ensconced in our hallowed halls for at least the last 35 years or so. He was just dumb enough to get caught at it, and we were stupid to accept that girl to Hyde in the first place. I guess someone thought the mother could be more easily brain-washed like the rest of the parents so desperate to send their messed up lil Jimmer juniors to us, har har har!!! Ah, well, can't win them all!!
I figure if we are able to retain ~40% of our students through to the end of the school year, we're still ahead of the game, financially. And we get to keep the year's tuition of those who bail out early, har har har!!! So, yeah, who cares about those sad-sack whiners. They're pathetic losers anyway. Glad to be rid of them!
Loving life and golf to the penultimate, Joe Gauld, The Educator
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on September 17, 2007, 08:41:26 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
I am assuming the flanking photos are both of Jeff Black (Hyde days, and currently)? Anyone remember his older brother Chris?
Yes those are Jeff. I think I remember a Black that was there and dropped out. The whole Hyde connection seems to have worked to Jeff's advantage. He has got control of this Dad's business. He has the big chair at his Dad's school. I wonder about guys like that, if they ever have self doubt, never having to prove themselves in an environment that was not tilled in their favor by consanguinity. Does Malcolm thinks about it? Is it an indication of a character flaw or weakness, not to strike out and make a mark that is purely your own. Maybe if you get good tee times you don't think about it.
You will be sad to note the reunion has been postponed to next year.
Some fruitful rummaging in the Wayback attic yielded this little apple: "What happened at the previous reunion?" I.e., the one five years ago, which theoretically involved the same class years, i.e., the same people, though who knows how the hell they organize these things...
Nice to see that "Hyde-Bath Head of School Laurie Hurd offered special consideration to former faculty attendee... Robert Thurrell," amongst others. At this point, I'm beginning to see that Hyde not only covers for these odious pedophiles, but condones their victimizing actions as well. I suppose by now I should be well-inured to the parade of evidence, but it just never ceases to amaze me, time and time again...
=====================
• Highest Scoring Golf Team (Jeff Black '78, Will Umbach '98, Hyde President Malcolm Gauld '72, and Hyde-Bath Director of Development Lavoe Davis)
• Youngest Alum (Chris Collins '01)
• Youngest Alum Baby (Joan Gallo-Guido '77)
• Longest Distance Traveled (Jeb Buffinton '78 from Paris, France)
• Earliest Registrant (Andrij Rudko '94).[/list] The cocktail party was also a time for alumni from the classes of 1973, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1988, 1993, and 1998 to gather for group pictures, a lobster fest, and finally a gathering and dance in the Mansion.
Some reunion classes also held special get-togethers on their own throughout the weekend, including the Class of 1978, which honored its class member Mark Walters, who received his Hyde diploma during an afternoon meeting in the Mansion’s teak room. (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20031219113214/hyde.edu/alumni/Bathreunion2003/default.as)
The weekend was a wonderful experience, said Walters. The highlight was getting back in touch with old friends that I spent some great years with. It was amazing how fast the bonds formed again. I had such a great time, and we're going to start seeing each other again. These are people I hadn't seen in 26 years.
Rob Schuller deserves a lot of credit for getting in touch with me and asking me if I wanted to get a diploma. I was very much interested in that. It just kind of happened. It wasn't something I had planned on when I first started talking about attending the weekend, but I'm certainly pleased with how it did happen.[/list] The reunion weekend wrap-up consisted of a full brunch in the Student Union, where alumni said their goodbyes and Hyde-Bath Head of School Laurie Hurd offered special consideration to former faculty attendees Bob Bertschy, Dick and Ellen Klain, and Robert Thurrell and alumni parents Paul and Claire Hurd and Perry and Pearl Collins.
After brunch, alumni, faculty, and staff, armed with exchanged business cards, addresses, phone numbers, and good wishes left in happy groups to resume their lives until the next welcome return.
Here's what some of the alumni had to say about Hyde Reunion Weekend 2003.
I want to tell you that I am in awe of whoever pulled off that weekend. All the planning was great. John in the kitchen must not have slept much all week. What a great lobster dinner! The kids loved the rock wall. It was very well done in all respects. Thank you! It was just so wonderful to see everyone again. You all did a great job organizing the reunion. Every event was well done, the meals were great and my kids LOVED Dottie's daycare. So, thanks for everything. We had a great time. —Joan Gallo '77
It was good to return for the 2003 reunion. I reunited with a number of good people. It's interesting how time ticks by and so many things change, however, the effects of internal recall rarely do. It felt good to embrace these memories and the people who helped to create them. —Brad Upp '88
I don't know why I had not been back to Hyde in so many years. My experience at Hyde was the true beginning of a lot of spiritual growth for me. It was so special to feel the essence and spirit of the Hyde program again. Both Mike and I felt so welcomed and a part of Hyde's family. The weekend reminded me of why I have chosen my life experiences and why those experiences have come easily to me. I have a lot of self-respect today and I know it started at Hyde. —Lee Sewall McAleney '83[/list]
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on September 17, 2007, 12:19:55 PM
Quote
and Robert Thurrell
The appearance at Hyde @ 40 of bob that was reported here on another thread was not a fluke. Hyde, clearly, has no problem with his presence on campus. There is really nothing more to say.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on September 17, 2007, 04:46:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
...and Robert Thurrell
The appearance at Hyde @ 40 of bob that was reported here on another thread was not [a fluke. Hyde, clearly, has no problem with his presence on campus. There is really nothing more to say.
Which is, of course, actually saying quite a lot. It would appear that one's standing in the oligarchy-that-is-Hyde matters a great deal more than the actual truth of the matter. The so-called ten principles be damned, really. And that does not even address common sense issues or safety concerns that any self-respecting parent in this country has a right to expect from any so-called school, let alone one that has elected itself to be the expert in character development (said credentials having been determined by the institute in question... gimme a break, they are even worse than Sue Scheff in the "self-proclaimed expert" department).
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 04, 2007, 11:08:44 PM
Someone sent me a link to a story about one of these newage sewage cults on the left coast, thinking perhaps that it was about Ramtha or somehow connected to Ramtha, knowing that I was interested in them... It turned out not to be about Ramtha, although at least one person mentions him/her/it in the lengthy Comments section that follows the article. Nevertheless, this article turned out to be pertinent to the Hyde forum in another aspect, namely the effects on a community when its gurus engage in the sexual predation of its subjects, those treasured souls it is ostensibly teaching and guiding towards enlightenment and awareness.
Spending some time perusing the comments section after the article (highly recommended, but definitely not for just one sitting), not to mention some of the several links found therein leading one to other commentary and blogs on the subject elsewhere on the web, crystallized some formerly vague notions I had re. what exactly the attraction to Ramtha and its ilk really held for some former Hyde students.
===========================
Briefly, the article is about the following: a husband and wife guru team have a racket that's been going on for perhaps 15-20 years, the last two or three years of which have been in Oregon. They have separate "Foundations" but many of their devotees belong to both and there is a lot of overlap. Husband, who's a hypnotherapist by "trade," has a relationship with one of his students that went on for about three years behind everyone's back.
Two years into the spiel, wife finds out but helps keep it under wraps rather than spill the beans. All the while these people are raking in millions of dollars in fees from attendees to their various retreats and seminars about finding yourself and the value of truth and honesty and what-not, not to mention all the couples retreats and seminars about how to have a more honest and fulfilling marriage, etc. etc. etc.
Meanwhile, the third wheel on this bicycle wants out. She wants to end the relationship and leave the cult and completely get away. Turns out there was some pressure on the 30 years younger woman in question and she never really wanted things to go "that far." Husband and wife put a lot of pressure on the young woman to keep quiet, but eventually it becomes clear that the truth will out. So the husband makes a public confession and apology to the community, before the young woman can. And then the wife gets into the act too, and wants to hold public meetings where everyone can talk about their "feelings" over this betrayal of trust and protocol. The young woman meanwhile, was never apologized to, is totally messed up, and is suicidal. The community is in a bit of an uproar...
The real story of this sad, tawdry tale is told in the Comments section that follows the article, as well as the aforementioned links.
===========================
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 05, 2007, 12:09:36 AM
A Letter from a former student of Eli Jaxon-Bear and Gangaji. (http://http://lists.topica.com/lists/elijaxonbear-gangajidisgraced/read/message.html?mid=913387224&start=0) Former Leela Foundation Staff Member Oct 07, 2006 14:32 PDT
Dearest friends -
As the hours go by and the two of us process the past four years of our lives in this community, deep layers of the cult are being revealed. It is shocking, horrifying, humiliating, painful, pathetic, perverse, and for me at least, absolutely consuming me in rage... I want you to know that I am very clear about the fact that I am writing from deep within the heart of this rage. And I am also truly silent and still within it... This rage is not directed toward you, friends. It is rage.
I am writing this to you because I have heard that you are part of a group of people coming together to write a letter to the community about this horrible abuse of power that Eli has admitted to. I must say that some of the words I am hearing from Ashland have made me question whether there is some conscious or unconscious attempt to spin this whole thing in such a way that Eliot or Toni will be supported to teach again. At first I thought to keep silent so as not to cause more distress, but the fury that I feel when I think of them ascending an altar to teach again.... It's too much...
I have earned -- and paid for -- my right to speak in this community. The last words Eli said to me were that he "felt hijacked" when I played my brother's song after our fixation plays in August. Hijacked? If that is hijacked, what is the word for what I am feeling now?
I write this far from Ashland, to give my perspective on things as you begin to craft a response for the community.
***
I truly hope you agree that any attempt to defend, protect, or support either Eli or Toni Varner is a fear-response that is the result of the fact that we have all been living in a nightmarish cult for the past several years. To protect them or to support them is to continue being complicit in the cult mentality. Eli is a sexual predator who abused his power in the most egregious way. Toni was complicit in covering up that lie from the group for the past year. They manipulated us to reveal our deepest secrets and expose our deepest scars while they sat upon their thrones, passing judgements, mocking people, condescending, (throwing bean bags at those who dared question or who were too slow to learn) and lying to us the entire time about their own despicable behavior and cover-ups.
This whole event must not be framed as an "affair". We have spoken to the woman who was harmed in this event, and it is very clear that there can be no "relationship" or "affair" when there is such a great disparity of power. As you know, this woman is nearly 30 years Eli's junior and truly believed him to be the Sat-guru. She was preyed upon, "softened up", and then very nearly destroyed psychologically. You know too well that I do not exaggerate the situation. I also don't think it's an exaggeration to say that we are lucky she is alive. I wish I had the numbers at my fingertips to show just how many young women take their own lives after this sort of sexual abuse from a "spiritual" teacher.
I am not afraid of being ostracized from or exposed to the group anymore. There is no group. There are no teachers. Wasn't that the teaching all along? No teacher - no student... The only group is the one that arises, in truth and in love, from the ashes of this train-wreck. And it does not include -- for me -- the two people who have taken my money for the past four years to support their increasingly lavish, 1st class, Trump Tower, gas guzzling, philandering lifestyles. They are not just "part of the group" that we need to love and support and try to understand. They held and then betrayed great trust. They broke their part of the three-year agreement; and they broke the implicit agreement between teacher and Sat-guru. We have been asked to stop and tell the truth so that we can put an end to the suffering. Just look at all of the suffering now. What a tragedy.
I can see very plainly that the emperors have no clothes and I am prepared to make public everything I know of this if the whole truth is not revealed. While I truly do not want to be a part of any war, at this moment I feel that I would write letters to Oregon newspapers, and the newspapers of any and every city -- nationally and internationally -- in which they are scheduled to hold an event. We must not go so far in "finding compassion for the victimizer" (as we have been told to do for so many years now) and in so doing, overlook the life that has been nearly destroyed through the victimizers actions.
If Eliot and Toni think that we will be silent and that we are all going to continue to support them, then they have clearly not felt the rage and horror that we have been hearing from people for the past 24+ hours here in New York and elsewhere. We are heartbroken and furious.
This is no joke. This is an outrage! And at this moment, yes, I am willing to lose everything. Your friendships do not compare to being true to Truth. And this truth might protect other women from falling for this man who charmed all of us into believing his rap.
I have loved you all so deeply. I hope that when we all emerge from this that we will be able to look each other in the eye and know that, in the depth of the greatest horror, we all kept our integrity. That is all that matters to me from this point forward.
With great sincerity and love - A former student of Eli and Gangaji
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 05, 2007, 03:00:54 AM
Anyway... I return to my original premise for posting this material, namely:
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Spending some time perusing ...crystallized some formerly vague notions I had re. what exactly the attraction to Ramtha and its ilk really held for some former Hyde students.
On the face of it, there would appear to be certain glaring inconsistencies with the Gauldian vision of life and that preached by Neo-Advaitan gurus now proliferating in the western world. Gauld's hawkish right-wing sensibilities contrast rather glaringly with the stereotypical laid-back miasma of newage sewage.
I've gone 'round this bend several times before; each time seems to yield a bit more insight.
There is, of course, a veritable list of similarities, but two things jumped out at me this time ahead of the rest of the pack:
* Guru/Hyde holds all the cards/calls the shots. * No critical thinking allowed.
My "rest of the pack" list includes: the one-sided parameters set up by the guru/Hyde, the psychological self-dissection for the purpose of higher development, the peer pressure for strict conformity to the community norm, and the absolute squashing, even ridicule, of dissenting viewpoints... Please feel free to point out anything I might have left out!
Why did Paul and Vanda seek to replicate certain conditions they had at Hyde? Why not just return to Hyde?
Were there perhaps lifestyle options or creature comforts in the newage format, that would not have been so available at Hyde? Or was it merely a matter of mistaking simply new packaging for actual progress?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2007, 10:22:41 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
There is, of course, a veritable list of similarities, but two things jumped out at me this time ahead of the rest of the pack:
* Guru/Hyde holds all the cards/calls the shots. * No critical thinking allowed.
My "rest of the pack" list includes: the one-sided parameters set up by the guru/Hyde, the psychological self-dissection for the purpose of higher development, the peer pressure for strict conformity to the community norm, and the absolute squashing, even ridicule, of dissenting viewpoints... Please feel free to point out anything I might have left out!
You forgot the group-specific language, which works to isolate the group even more from the "real" world.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2007, 11:21:29 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
There is, of course, a veritable list of similarities, but two things jumped out at me this time ahead of the rest of the pack:
* Guru/Hyde holds all the cards/calls the shots. * No critical thinking allowed.
My "rest of the pack" list includes: the one-sided parameters set up by the guru/Hyde, the psychological self-dissection for the purpose of higher development, the peer pressure for strict conformity to the community norm, and the absolute squashing, even ridicule, of dissenting viewpoints... Please feel free to point out anything I might have left out!
You forgot the group-specific language, which works to isolate the group even more from the "real" world.
You mean the group-specific language that perverts the literal meaning of words.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2007, 11:45:18 AM
Quote
Why did Paul and Vanda seek to replicate certain conditions they had at Hyde? Why not just return to Hyde?
Hyde pays shit. Ramtha travels back in time and brings Greenback dollars from Atlantis. It is the Money channel.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 06, 2007, 04:11:58 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
There is, of course, a veritable list of similarities, but two things jumped out at me this time ahead of the rest of the pack:
* Guru/Hyde holds all the cards/calls the shots. * No critical thinking allowed.
My "rest of the pack" list includes: the one-sided parameters set up by the guru/Hyde, the psychological self-dissection for the purpose of higher development, the peer pressure for strict conformity to the community norm, and the absolute squashing, even ridicule, of dissenting viewpoints... Please feel free to point out anything I might have left out!
You forgot the group-specific language, which works to isolate the group even more from the "real" world.
You mean the group-specific language that perverts the literal meaning of words.
Hell, yeah! And what an incredible intellectual disservice that is, to address but the most benign aspect of all that! I thought Hyde was supposed to be a school, eh? Guess not.
Yeah, don't know how I came to leave out the LINGO, of all things, ha ha haaa!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 15, 2007, 01:07:42 PM
Back to the original folks at the heart of this thread...
This from a Symposium on documentary distribution on Discovery-Campus, a company based in Germany which is focused on international documentary making, marketing, and distribution.
=========================
3rd Symposium 2006 « Getting It Out There A Reality Check on Distribution (http://http://www.discovery-campus.de/v2/page/symposia/symposia_programme/28/)
11:30-12:15 Case Study GRASSROOTS MARKETING "What the Bleep Do We Know"
· Pavel Mikoloski, Living The Field, London
What is the secret behind a low budget "pseudo" documentary feature that made over $10 million at the box office? In the US it sold out small theatres for months and was then launched into 60 theatres by Samuel Goldwyn Films. It has created an overwhelming buzz on the internet (not all positive). So what was the marketing genius behind getting "What the Bleep Do We Know" out there? Marketing director Pavel Mikoloski will explain how it was done from the ground up.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 15, 2007, 01:11:50 PM
His profile on ecademy - "connecting business people"
http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?id=206779 (http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?id=206779) Pavel Mikoloski Marketing Guru Self London UK UK
Ecademy ID: 206779
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 15, 2007, 01:27:34 PM
(http://http)
~~~ Vanda Mikoloski ~~~ "An irreverent romp down my spiritual path... Stand-up comedy to usher in the emerging, new consciousness." [/list][/url] What brought Vanda Mikoloski back into comedy, now 'Quantum Comedy' after teaching yoga for 9 years? The film "What The Bleep Do We Know," a suggestion by Elaine Hendrix (Jennifer in the film), Vanda's brother Pavel Mikoloski, and L.A. comic Rick Overton, who encouraged Vanda to develop an act of her own and when she balked, told her "But you're an elder. You've got to give back to the tribe now." Pivotal words for Vanda of whom Bill Maher, a former boyfriend from her days as a comedian in New York says: "Vanda is superbly smart and funny ... funny and smart ... both of those."
Vanda has appeared at the 'Bleep' conferences and is the warm-up act for the new "Rabbit Hole" version of the film as it premieres in major cities in the US and Canada. Wherever she plays, Vanda's intent, and her passion, is to accomplish more than make people laugh, she wants to make them think and wonder, about our nature, our divinity and duplicity. There's wisdom in her act, sugar-coated with laughter. Find Vanda's touring schedule, a video, stories, and more at www.vanda.us (http://www.vanda.us)
Vanda requests YOUR collaboration! She has heard from many of our listeners and she too thinks you are cool! So send her your stories (Ha! In other words, she wants you to write her material ;-) Become a "Vandalite!" Listen to her latest program and write to her. Vanda's e-address Send your experiences on the spiritual path! The magical, the ironical, the funny! Is there an episode that annoys you? Hear it re-told with Vanda's wit and humor and it will never bother you again... think of it as therapy!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 15, 2007, 01:55:02 PM
I LIKE Ms. Crankypants! :rofl:
========================
Ms. Cranky Pants mscrankypants.com | alice wang | misanthropes unite! uh, not. What the Bleep Do We Know?[/url] This New Age claptrap propaganda piece twisted quantum theory, physics, religion, biology, addiction, and interviews with both scientists and freaks, interwove it with unsubstantiated and not peer-reviewed pseudo-scientific studies, candy coated it with this weird-ass partly-animated acid trip of a fictional story about a stressed-out photographer, and basically tried to prove that our reality is not real. Uh huh. I admit I'm a strong proponent of an existentialist (http://http://www.bartleby.com/61/72/E0277200.html) philosophy that sometimes leaves me cold and hollow (not really), so maybe I have a bias toward what I perceive and what I deduce (cogito ergo sum), but even trying to keep an open mind for anything in this movie is too much. I'm just not a cult-prone, gullible fool.
This film was funded, directed, and written by folks from some Ramtha cult. Ramtha is a thirty-five thousand year old spirit from Atlantis and is channeled by this delusional chick, JZ Knight (of course she was born in Roswell, New Mexico. omg.) JZ features quite prominently in the movie, as expected since it's her movie. My favorite part of the whole ordeal was when Knight stated that we had advanced technological advances, like anti-gravity. Whoa! Don't we wish, dude! I would love to fly around in a Jetson's-style street levitation machine without the use of propellent or other noxious substances. Just fire up the magnetic coils and other physics doodads that don't exist and boom! I'm flying! I'm flying! Does anyone do any sort of fact-checking anymore?
And now there's a sequel, with the added tagline, "Down the Rabbit Hole" (yeah, of your ass!).
It's not "What the F*** Do We Know," it's just simply, what the fuck?
4 comments
Jackie said: LUNAR new year? Your calendar and mine, baby! MARYBETH[/b] said: What THe BLeep was funded by the RAMTHA folks?? Are you sure?? Oh shit....I knew it was too entertaining to have been produced by anyone born prior to the development of the calendar! Oh well....its back to the PBS channel. MsCranky[/b] said: Okay, here are some clarifications and their sources: 1) Ramtha is a 35,000 year old immortal God from the long-gone continent of Lemuria (lemurs are so darn cute!), who then went on to Atlantis 2) He is channelled through the body of JZ Knight so he can teach his philosophy in person 3) The press contact for the movie was a person named Pavel Mikoloski, who denied that the movie was funded by the Ramtha School 4) Pavel Mikoloski was also the spokesman for the Ramtha School 5) Supposedly Ramtha/JZ Knight hand-picked all of the "scientists" and experts for the film 6) All of the directors of the film are students of the Ramtha School 7) The production company, Lord of the Wind, LLC. is a reference to Ramtha's teachings 8) Lord of the Wind, LLC is located at Yelm, Washington, where the Ramtha School is located
More info here: http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=586. (http://www.wweek.com/story.php?story=586.). http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2004/09. (http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2004/09.). JessicaVendo[/b] said: Yes, I wish more people would do some fact finding about this cult. I live in Yelm, and have to say the community is very divided about Ramtha. Many members of the community have left their previous homes from out of state, or country for that matter, and moved here just to be close to the "compound" which is notabley surrounded by large brick structures, gates, and armed security ( no shit). Many of the members have gone into bankruptcy because it costs so damn much just to be apart of the RSE- about $1000 per class. JZ Knight also has her own boutique in town that sells very upscale merchandise thatI have no idea who could afford in this little town of 4500. Oh, ya, and her boutique also sells JZ Knights used clothes. Wow. Reply to JessicaVendo's comment
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ed Legg on October 15, 2007, 02:27:57 PM
Quote
The press contact for the movie was a person named Pavel Mikoloski, who denied that the movie was funded by the Ramtha School
I learned that boy pretty good. It all depends on the definition of School. The durn fools didn't as about the foundation. Good job Paval! Thats the way to dish the integrity boy.
Hugs
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2007, 02:52:29 PM
about 6-7 years ago, Paul told me he had become a filmmaker, and that he had made this film with some other people
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2007, 02:59:53 PM
Yeah, he said I do film stuff and I would for a school in Washington State. No lies there, just not full disclosure. Every one has to make a living. Proving circus for the wingnuts is a noble undertaking. I just hope he is smart enough not to buy it himself.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2007, 03:22:24 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Yeah, he said I do film stuff and I would for a school in Washington State. No lies there, just not full disclosure. Every one has to make a living. Proving circus for the wingnuts is a noble undertaking. I just hope he is smart enough not to buy it himself.
Yeah, he said "I do film stuff and I work for a school in Washington State." No lies there, just not full disclosure. Every one has to make a living. Providing circus for the wingnuts is a noble undertaking. I just hope he is smart enough not to buy it himself
sorry 86 proofreader when down the rabbit whole.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2007, 03:35:25 PM
no, he said either "i'm a filmmaker" or "i made a film" or "i'm a filmmaker now and this is our latest project"
he also said he was studying philosophy or religious studies, cant remember which
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2007, 03:49:15 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
no, he said either "i'm a filmmaker" or "i made a film" or "i'm a filmmaker now and this is our latest project"
he also said he was studying philosophy or religious studies, cant remember which
That is what he said to you. I though perhaps he made the film this young man is reacting to:
http://cupchicks.com/ (http://cupchicks.com/)
I would not watch it if I were you!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ed Legg on October 15, 2007, 05:22:11 PM
Damnation!!
Them two girls were them little Latvian honeys workin' to Golicks this summer. I ain't never buyin' ice cream there again. That just does not look like good hygiene to me.
I gotta go hurl. That was discustin!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 15, 2007, 10:14:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
no, he said either "i'm a filmmaker" or "i made a film" or "i'm a filmmaker now and this is our latest project"
he also said he was studying philosophy or religious studies, cant remember which
It is quite possible that J.Z. Knight led him on to believe that his contribution was integral to the project, on par with being one of the three actual filmmakers. From what I've been able to research, he was initially the Public Relations person for the "film" -- I really should call it the infomercial -- and that apparently also included the marketing. Pretty much the only reason that film made it anywhere at all in the beginning was the marketing.
About a page back, I think I posted it earlier today, was a post mentioning a talk he gave in 2006 called "Grassroots Marketing." Details of when a film would be showing in such and such a city would be posted on the website and different people would organize who would call such and such a reviewer, plus all sorts of "chain-phone-calling" would commence (I'm not really sure what you would call it) to drum up bodies to show up at the theater. Ramsters would do all this dirty work. It worked to convey an artificial perception of immense popularity. Kind of like the build up in The Emperor's New Clothes.
Meanwhile, I imagine Paul oversaw the organizing of all this, plus wrote lots of pseudo reviews that would be placed in local media at the appropriate time beforehand (paid for as advertisements, but phrased as though they were reviews), plus gave interviews to real reviewers. It was really quite an effective marketing strategy; without it the film would have probably bombed after the first two weeks.
Anyway, that's the only reason I can imagine that Paul would say something seemingly so false. Who knows how J.Z. Knight phrased things to people. When you see the clips of her former husband, Jeff Knight, you realize just how much this woman is a master rationalizer: "the ends justify the means."
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 15, 2007, 10:21:34 PM
I should also add, for what it's worth, that misappropriation of credit is pretty standard in the film industry, from what I've been told. You grab what you can, walk over whoever is in the way, fuck whoever you have to, etc. etc. etc. Just don't get caught.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 20, 2007, 07:29:48 AM
Quote
http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?id=206779 (http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?id=206779) Pavel Mikoloski Marketing Guru Self London UK UK
Ecademy ID: 206779
Quote
3rd Symposium 2006 — Getting It Out There A Reality Check on Distribution (http://http://www.discovery-campus.de/v2/page/symposia/symposia_programme/28/)
11:30-12:15 Case Study GRASSROOTS MARKETING "What the Bleep Do We Know"
· Pavel Mikoloski, Living The Field, London
What is the secret behind a low budget "pseudo" documentary feature that made over $10 million at the box office? In the US it sold out small theatres for months and was then launched into 60 theatres by Samuel Goldwyn Films. It has created an overwhelming buzz on the internet (not all positive). So what was the marketing genius behind getting "What the Bleep Do We Know" out there? Marketing director Pavel Mikoloski will explain how it was done from the ground up.
For some reason, the above came immediately to my mind when I read this in the Fall 2004 Alumni Newsletter:
=============================
SHARE THE SECRET (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20040716054403/hyde.edu/materialuploads/HydeAlumniNews2004.pdf) Recently, Laurie Hurd and Duncan McCrann announced the launch of a major campaign to increase awareness about Hyde. The help of alumni in the form of time, energy, enthusiasm, and creative thinking is needed. Simply put, it's a new world for Hyde and other New England boarding schools. The recent proliferation of new educational options for students and families has created a challenge for boarding school admissions, a challenge that we at Hyde are eager to face with your help.
As alumni, you don't have to be sold on the impact of Hyde on families. There is little doubt that if more families knew about Hyde, they would pursue enrollment. In some ways, Hyde is the best-kept secret in American education! It is where hope is restored and potential is realized.
This fact led to a new campaign that will "ignite" conversation and interest about Hyde, a venture where everyone connected to Hyde is passing along the Hyde "secret" to people they meet everyday—school counselor, minister, friend, therapist, colleague—to ultimately transform the mystery into knowledge.
In the coming months, you will hear more about Share the Secret. By working together to spread the word about Hyde we will reach families that could benefit from what our schools offer, and have some fun in the process. Please contact Laurie Hurd at 207-443-7105, dmccrann@hyde.edu (http://mailto:dmccrann@hyde.edu), to pass along any campaign development ideas.
=============================
Apparently, at least one person took that "campaign" to heart. Or, perhaps it is genius of Hyde's marketing masters themselves. From urban dictionary's definition of "hyde (http://http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=2&term=hyde)":
=============================
9. Hyde Thumbsup 29 up, 67 down Thumbsdown
The best kept secret in American education. Pssssst.....What's the best kept secret in American education. by Jay Brizzle Jan 26, 2005 email it
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 20, 2007, 08:12:50 AM
Quote
As alumni, you don't have to be sold on the impact of Hyde on families
That is good, because I am not.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 20, 2007, 08:20:25 AM
Quote from: ""Schrödinger's cat""
Quote
As alumni, you don't have to be sold on the impact of Hyde on families
That is good, because I am not.
It took me forever to realize that what they meant to say was something to the effect of "As alumni, you no longer need to be sold on the impact of Hyde on families, because you are already sold. You have gone through the experience and realize its benefits."
Bad syntax. A telling obfuscation. Tremendous presumption on their part that by virtue of being an alumnus, you automatically believe the bullshit.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 20, 2007, 08:29:55 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Schrödinger's cat""
Quote
As alumni, you don't have to be sold on the impact of Hyde on families
That is good, because I am not.
It took me forever to realize that what they meant to say was something to the effect of "As alumni, you no longer need to be sold on the impact of Hyde on families, because you are already sold. You have gone through the experience and realize its benefits."
Bad syntax. A telling obfuscation. Tremendous presumption on their part that by virtue of being an alumnus, you automatically believe the bullshit.
I have noted that hyde lives the creed of "attitude over aptitude" when it comes to written communications. I am no Marcel Proust myself, I will admit. I think Jimmy Webb wrote the definitive text on cake anyway.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 20, 2007, 09:38:11 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
From what I've been able to research, he was initially the Public Relations person for the "film" -- I really should call it the infomercial -- and that apparently also included the marketing. Pretty much the only reason that film made it anywhere at all in the beginning was the marketing.
... a post mentioning a talk he gave in 2006 called "Grassroots Marketing." Details of when a film would be showing in such and such a city would be posted on the website and different people would organize who would call such and such a reviewer, plus all sorts of "chain-phone-calling" would commence (I'm not really sure what you would call it) to drum up bodies to show up at the theater. Ramsters would do all this dirty work. It worked to convey an artificial perception of immense popularity. Kind of like the build up in The Emperor's New Clothes.
Meanwhile, I imagine Paul oversaw the organizing of all this, plus wrote lots of pseudo reviews that would be placed in local media at the appropriate time beforehand (paid for as advertisements, but phrased as though they were reviews), plus gave interviews to real reviewers. It was really quite an effective marketing strategy; without it the film would have probably bombed after the first two weeks.
From the first mailing that I could find of a newsletter called What The Bleep, and which later evolved into The Bleeping Herald; February 5th, 2004 or thereabouts; many of the key words connect to links (marketing):
================================== Yelm Premier (http://http://www.whatthebleep.com/mailings/20040205.html) "WHAT THE #$*! DO WE KNOW?!" A film as entertaining as it is thought-provoking, you will never look at your world the same way again. Join us in getting the word out, and let Hollywood know (through Box Office numbers) that the world is ready for a new generation of films and information  driven not by profit, but by true inspiration. The time has come for the world to learn what science has known for decades, and mystics have known for eons.
"Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." Â Carl Gustav Jung
Get a free ticket, help us with posters.
Get Your Tickets Early —and Spread the News!
For more info and to view trailer visit: http://www.whatthebleep.com (http://www.whatthebleep.com)
For movie times, prices, etc. contact Yelm Cinemas, or call (360) 400-3456 (FILM). Tickets are on sale now and are not available online. Movie times will be posted on the Yelm Cinemas, website on Friday morning and on their recorded message.
To help with the local grass-roots effort in Yelm and in Portland, contact Pavel Mikoloski. ==================================
From the third mailing, March 4, 2004:
================================== Now Showing (http://http://www.whatthebleep.com/mailings/20040304.html) Film Festivals If you are near Sedona, AZ or Washington, DC you will have a wonderful opportunity to see the movie in the inspiring atmosphere of one of the film festivals there. If you don't live near these areas yourself, but know someone there, please forward this email to them.
In 17 days at the Bagdad theatre in Portland over 13,000 people have seen What the $%BLEEEP*! Do We Know!?
Peter Boicourt – Theatre Manager: "Many of our customers have stated that they've seen it more than once and can't get enough of it I've never had so many phone calls from all over Oregon, wanting information and to come and see this film."
6 weeks running at Yelm Cinemas. Owner Margaret Clapp: "It's a phenomena".
What the BLEEP is going on???
For one thing: 3 more theatres are opening The BLEEP:
Forest Grove, Oregon McMenamin's Grand Lodge Theater - Opens Friday, March 19th Forest Grove, Oregon 3505 Pacific Avenue Forest Grove, OR 97116 Call for times (503) 225-5555 category 8835
Olympia, Washington The Capitol Theater - Opens on Sunday, March 28 206 E. 5th St. Downtown Olympia – (360) 754-5378 Show times are: Sun 3/28 – 4:00 pm and 9:00 pm Mon 3/29 - 6:30 pm Tues 3/30 – 9:00 pm Wed 3/31 - 6:30 pm Thurs, 4/01 – 9:00 pm
And don’t forget: ASHLAND, OREGON The Third Ashland Independent Film Festival SCREENINGS: "What The #$*! Do We Know?" Fri. April 2nd 6:10 pm Sat. April 3rd 3:10 pm Sun. April 4th 9:10 pm Mon. April 5th 12:10 pm TICKETS Films: $8 each/$6 seniors/$4 Students VENUE: Varsity Theatre, at 166 E. Main Street, downtown Ashland SCHEDULE: http://www.ashlandfilm.org/ (http://www.ashlandfilm.org/)
Guerrilla Marketing is working!!!
We have been contacted by many Theatres who are now interested in What the BLEEP based on the phones calls everyone has made to their local theaters. This is incredibly effective, so please keep calling. If you have friends scattered around the country (or world (or Universe)) that you think should see the film, have them call their local theatres.
Coming Soon: "Street Teams"
For those who wish to take a more active role is seeing this film out in the public spotlight (instead of the mindless drivel that's usually there) we are forming Street Teams. These teams are locally based and are to be a major point in our grass roots marketing. The teams will do postering, more calling and talking to special interests groups. We will have Street Team T-Shirts, free tickets to the movie, and who knows what else. So stay tuned.
For more info and to view trailer visit: http://www.whatthebleep.com (http://www.whatthebleep.com) ==================================
From the sixth mailing, May 5, 2004:
================================== BLEEPers Of the World Unite! (http://http://www.whatthebleep.com/mailings/20040505.html) The grassroots, word-of-mouth advertising really works. The first week in Tempe we sold out the evening show on Friday, Saturday, Wednesday and Thursday. This theater had never ever had even ONE sell-out before! So please tell anyone and everyone in the cities mentioned above to get the BLEEP out of the house and rub elbows with some fellow souls who like thinking about the "impossible" and then making it so.
Speaking of which - if your hometown isn't listed above, let your fingers do the walkin' and your spirit do the talkin' and tell your theaters to get us in! (But only if they can stand some sell-out shows). More ideas on what YOU can do here. ==================================
From the seventh mailing, May 21, 2004:
================================== California here we Come! (http://http://www.whatthebleep.com/mailings/20040521.html) We just received our first article about "The Phenomena". And a phenomena is what we all have generated. Distributors are now sitting up and taking note. And WE (meaning filmmakers and all of you) made it happen! Calling friends, emailing associates, dragging your pals to the theater have produced:
"Movies always drop after the first week," (Dan) Harkins said. "The last time I saw a movie do more business (locally) in its fourth week than its first week was Titanic." - Arizona Republic
F.Y.I. this put us in the league with Titanic, the most successful Box Office movie of all time…
For the full article click here.
Another BLEEPing surprise is: WHO likes the film. We are increasingly hearing about people who are absolutely floored by who comes back from the film and LOVED it. It seems that some of the most unexpected people take to the information like, well, Peptides to Cells. So now we are recommending (if you're so inspired) not just to tell the people who you think will like What the $^%&#, but Everyone.
And finally: If you haven't checked out the Guestbook recently, check it out. It's very interesting how you can spot trends and common themes emerge. Also its tres' cool to see who else is out there.
And special thanks to those Arizonians who rocked out the Valley Arts Cinema! ==================================
From the eighth mailing, July 1, 2004:
================================== "BLEEP" Passes the One Million $$$ Mark! (http://http://www.whatthebleep.com/mailings/20040701.html) What does this mean? What can I do?
It means ... its showtime! Our word-of-mouth buzz has been incredibly instrumental in our successes everywhere. At the Denver opening, three-quarters of the audience said they heard about BLEEP from a friend or associate. So --
Please tell everyone you know about the wide release of "What the BLEEP." We used to say "tell your friends", but part of this phenomenon is that ... you/we can never tell who's going to love it. So, as a friend says: "Empower them all, let Karma sort it out!" Tell everyone!
Have people sign our mailing list. It's important to keep the phenomenon spreading
To help in your local area, sign up for streets teams. We will send you posters, postcards, and other cool stuff. It is a wonderful way to "shake the grid" and increase the awareness about our BLEEPIN' film.
Contact Media - both local, national, and intergalactic. The media is always looking for the breaking story. Well, we got it: a film made outside the entire Hollywood system is re-writing the book, and showing that there is an audience for films of a spiritual and scientific nature. Media leaders like Oprah, Ebert & Roeper, Joel Siegel, Gene Shalit, Bill O'Reilly and CNN will start to pay attention when their phones and in-boxes are ringing with reports of something new and wonderful. Let the media know we're here and we're not going away.
People can't get enough of "What the BLEEP" -- which is the good news and the bad news. Bad insofar as pirate copies of the film, both the sound and script, printed books, and audio tapes (with our Logos on it) have begun appearing. All of these copies are unauthorized, and are basically theft. We are releasing our materials in a sequence to maximize the impact of the film. These pirate versions affect that, and cheapen the experience. If you come across any copies, please, please tell us immediately. Call 1-866-312-5143. It is criminal, plain and simple, and we don't want that energy at all associated with this project. Please help protect the filmmakers. Remember, we also need this to be a financial success so that more films like this get made.
And finally, I would personally like to thank everyone who has taken their own time and energy to promote our film. It is this grass roots excitement that has produced box office numbers that have astounded the Hollywood distributors. It also shows in very dramatic fashion how we do, have, and ARE creating a new reality.
Yours truly, William Arntz Producer, Director,... ==================================
From the mailing of August 2, 2004:
==================================
NEWS! NEWS! NEWS! NEWS! (http://http://www.whatthebleep.com/mailings/20040802.html) National Distribution
The Sell-outs have confounded Major Distributors, who can't figure out how we're doing it. (And I mean WE. The word-of-mouth (from YOU) has kept What the BLEEP in most theaters for 10+ weeks!)
Confounded and interested to the point that:
We have partnered with a major distributor for our national release in September.[/list]That's right. Samuel Goldwyn/Roadside Attractions is now on board and booking theaters around the country. With a major distributor behind us, we expect to be everywhere this September.
The Box Office numbers have spoken — its telling Hollywood, and America, that there is an audience for this kind of film... and a constituency of MILLIONS sharing expansive, inclusive, enlightened values, desires and intentions...
…And in Closing
At the last 3 Openings: Denver, Los Angeles and San Francisco, we asked the audience how many people had heard of the Film before the local Ads and Newspapers announced it. Over 90% of the audience raised their hands! That is the work of those who have picked up the phone, fired off emails and generally talked up the film. We thank you, thank you, thank you all for that. And we're just getting started…
"It's Time to Get Wise!"[/list] ==================================
And more, and more, and more along these lines... but you get the drift!
Title: Street Teams and other "activism"
Post by: Ursus on October 20, 2007, 10:06:22 AM
[li]Help promote the film by putting up posters as a member of one of our "street teams."[/li] [li]Tell your family and friends about the film. Word of mouth is the best way to get the word out about this growing phenomenon.[/li] [li]Send family, friends, and colleagues, and acquaintances e-mails about the film, and let them know that if they sign the mailing list on the website, the filmmakers will notify them when the film is in their area.[/li] [li]If you read a review or article that you do not agree with or was contrary to your experience, write the media/writer. Let them know what you think. Its one of the ways that we can DO SOMETHING and not let them dictate a cultural agenda.[/li] [li]Post your own comments on film and spirituality websites. Be sure to include our website address on message boards or in chat rooms[/li] [li]Write and submit movie reviews on [url=http://www.imdb.com]www.imdb.com (http://http://www.whatthebleep.com/action/) and [url=http://www.netflix.com]www.netflix.com[/url]. Also, send them to your own email network.[/li] [li]Send us your experiences and thoughts after watching the Bleep. We will choose some to send to editors and reporters from qualified media outlets.[/li] [li]Write letters about the film to the editor of your local daily newspaper, either requesting a review, Op-Ed piece, or feature story on the film.[/li] [li]Many TV and Radio stations solicit potential news stories from their listeners and viewers, i.e. "If you have a story you'd like us to know about, please contact us". You may want to take advantage of this, let them know about this phenomenon and direct them to [url=http://www.whatthebleep.com]www.whatthebleep.com[/url][/li] [li]Notify influential people and like minded groups in your community who you think should see the film.[/li] [li]If you belong to a church group or other organization, write up study/discussion guides, or lectures about the topics in the film.[/li] [li]LET US KNOW OF ANY OTHER IDEAS YOU HAVE FOR ACTIVITIES THAT WILL SUPPORT "WHAT THE BLEEP!" email them to us.[/li][/list]
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on October 20, 2007, 08:00:28 PM
Possibly meant for this thread, but posted in another? No matter, still applicable... see HERE (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=23187&start=19) for original posting.
Quote from: ""sweet green icing""
According to Physics Today Online, the film invokes quantum physics to promote pseudoscience.[15] The article also states "the movie illustrates the uncertainty principle with a bouncing basketball being in several places at once. There's nothing wrong with that. It's recognized as pedagogical exaggeration. But the movie gradually moves to quantum "insights" that lead a woman to toss away her antidepressant medication, to the quantum channeling of Ramtha, the 35,000-year-old Atlantis god, and on to even greater nonsense."
John Gorenfeld reports that three directors are devotees of Ramtha's School of Enlightenment and JZ Knight/Ramtha.[16]
The Guardian Unlimited published an article summarizing the reactions to the film by some British scientists. Richard Dawkins states that "the authors seem undecided whether their theme is quantum theory or consciousness. Both are indeed mysterious, and their genuine mystery needs none of the hype with which this film relentlessly and noisily belabours us", concluding that the film is "tosh". Professor Clive Greated writes that "thinking on neurology and addiction are covered in some detail but, unfortunately, early references in the film to quantum physics are not followed through, leading to a confused message". He also questions whether modern physics cannot be married with institutional religion as the film implies. Simon Singh called it pseudoscience, and said the suggestion "that if observing water changes its molecular structure, and if we are 90% water, then by observing ourselves we can change at a fundamental level via the laws of quantum physics" was "ridiculous balderdash." According to Dr Joao Migueijo, reader in theoretical physics at Imperial College, the film deliberately misquotes science. [17]
An article published by Australian Broadcasting Corporation reports that Associate Professor Zdenka Kuncik, Professor Peter Schofield and Professor Max Colthear have criticised the film's ideas that quantum mechanics means an observer can consciously affect reality, saying: "The observer effect of quantum physics isn't about people or reality. It comes from the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, and it's about the limitations of trying to measure the position and momentum of subatomic particles". They also maintain that quantum effects have little influence on everyday objects like stones, and only apply to sub-atomic particles[18]. The article also discusses Hagelin's experiment with Transcendental Meditation and the Washington D.C rate of violent crime; they note that "the number of murders actually went up". They also comment on the film's use of the ten percent myth.
The Australian Broadcasting Corporation and the Fortean times have both discussed the story of the Native American's "perceptual blindness" to European ships. Both agree that there is a real psychological phenomenon of perceptual blindness, but find the historical details of the account given in the film to be unconvincing. The Fortean Times concludes that the story originated with Captain Cook. [19]
but I fail to see what "quantum physics" has to do with it.
I found it interesting that the scientists quoted in the wiki piece were in agreement with crazy bastards off hand assessment. I would say CB is a pretty smart guy but has not helped me write any of MY songs except for that part in the "Highwayman" were I said that the song's narrator fell in to the concrete at Hoover Dam, which we all know is a myth. No one in buried in the cret at the dam
"Each pour was no more than 6-inches deep. Because of this depth it is extremely unlikely that construction workers were accidentally buried alive in the concrete, contrary to popular folklore. "
CB gave me that line while we were ... well snorting lines. Turns out it is bull shit. I did pilot a star ship though.
I was a highwayman. Along the coach roads I did ride With sword and pistol by my side Many a young maid lost her baubles to my trade Many a soldier shed his lifeblood on my blade The bastards hung me in the spring of twenty-five But I am still alive.
I was a sailor. I was born upon the tide And with the sea I did abide. I sailed a schooner round the Horn to Mexico I went aloft and furled the mainsail in a blow And when the yards broke off they said that I got killed But I am living still.
I was a dam builder across the river deep and wide Where steel and water did collide A place called Boulder on the wild Colorado I slipped and fell into the wet concrete below They buried me in that great tomb that knows no sound But I am still around..I'll always be around..and around and around and around and around
I fly a starship across the Universe divide And when I reach the other side I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can Perhaps I may become a highwayman again Or I may simply be a single drop of rain But I will remain And I'll be back again, and again and again and again and again..
Oh yeah " I'll be back again, and again and again and again and again"
Jimmy
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Joseph W. Gauld on October 20, 2007, 08:54:03 PM
Quote from: ""Jimmy Webb""
I fly a starship across the Universe divide And when I reach the other side I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can Perhaps I may become a highwayman again Or I may simply be a single drop of rain But I will remain And I'll be back again, and again and again and again and again..
Just don't be hanging 'round any more of those Heaven's Gate folk, Boy, that is, if any are left... Har har har de har har!!!
Joseph Hoover-me Gauld, The Educator and Starship Navigator
Title: Re: Street Teams and other "activism"
Post by: Ursus on October 21, 2007, 09:36:15 AM
So much for Ramsters engaging in proactive activities as per getting the word out re. What The Bleep? (see a few posts above for "list"). What about reactive activities?
Quote
If you read a review or article that you do not agree with or was contrary to your experience, write the media/writer. Let them know what you think. Its one of the ways that we can DO SOMETHING and not let them dictate a cultural agenda.
Ramsters were marshaled out in full force in response to a negative review which appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle on Friday, July 23, 2004. If this doesn't make you say "cult," I don't know what will...
First the review. "Snoozing Viewer" refers to an icon indicating the reviewer's rating. As far as I can tell, there are three options: viewer clapping, viewer just sitting, and viewer asleep.
=========================================== www.whatthebleep.com/guestbook (http://http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/07/23/DDG257QTL41.DTL&type=entertainment)) you will see many similar responses.
I would like to close by quoting an email that I received as I was writing this. (A coincidence some would say, others would say an omen):
Hi folks, I saw the film on Saturday and I was just blown away. I'm 66 years old and have been thinking this way around these principles most of my life from the time I was about 9 or 10 years old. I thought I was the only one! I'm so glad to see I'm not and that there are people actually studying and talking about these ideas. It gives me hope. (Ms) Terry Rose San Francisco
Yours truly, William Arntz Co-Producer, Co-Director, Financier
_________________________________________________
Ps. I sent that email to the Chronicle just before sending this one. If you are also thinking "How Much Longer shall they kill our prophets", click on the link below to send a message to the Editor of the San Francisco Chronicle: send a message (We are CC'ing ourselves so we know how many emails go to them.)
You can read the entire review here: Ruthe Stein review link here. (http://http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/07/23/DDG257QTL41.DTL&type=entertainment)
And you do not have to be in San Francisco to respond. It is a global network, with the above review published on the web. It will be our global community that responds!
In Phoenix the "What the BLEEP" viewers were so enraged by the review (similar to the one above) that they buried the newspaper under a sea of emails and letters. That newspaper published another review and a few subsequent articles describing "the phenomena". 14 weeks later we're still playing there.
The only way things change is if we make a decision to change them. Do we stand aside and look, or do we speak up?
"It's time to get wise. It's time to be heard."
PPS: Feel free to forward this email. =========================================== THE LETTERS - over 500 sent, 469 posted so far (http://http://www.whatthebleep.com/sfchronicle/)
From: Pat Thomas on Aug 04, 2004 at 08:09 AM
Where do you people get your critics. Is Ms. Ruth Stein a journalism student, and serving her internship with your newspaper? Her criticism of What the Bleep do We Know indicates a very shallow perception/knowledge of what is happening in the world of science today. Perhaps she should go back to school, or search for another job within a closed community such as that described by George Orwell in 1984, where people are programmed not to question anything, but accept "what is." ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Claudia Smith on Aug 04, 2004 at 08:47 AM
Scarey times when even a San Francisco newspaper will pay someone to write a hatchet job on a lyrical and joyous film that presents an integrated view of philosphy and science. At a time when incivility and brutality is admired and presented over and over again both in both our popcorn movies and in our "real life" tv shows, this film is a reversal of all that.
It is hopeful, and it is positive. Sure, it presents folks with their own messages, but the general and it's primary main message is that people have a right to be happy and self accepting. It also gives good reason for commitment to humane altruism.
It talks about the cruelty of negative thoughts and how they cause longer lasting harm both to ourselves and to others than we normally consider when we are wallowing in despair or anger. I personally don't care whether negative thoughts can change water molecules. What I do know is how inner rage and misery can leak out and contaminate a society, turning it toward an admiration for interpersonal cruelty and brutality.
I think you reviewer should have watched the film until she understood it. So much rage and vindictivenss wouldn't have hit the reviewer's page if she had. And you published it. Shame on you! Claudia L. H. Smith Vancouver, WA ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cindy St. John on Aug 04, 2004 at 09:05 AM
Dear Sir or Madam, After reading the review of "What the Bleep" written by Ruthe Stein, my main thought is that your publication should be very embarrassed by her ignorance and closed minded attitude. Perhaps it would be wise in the future to send an educated person to do your movie reviews. I also believe that a public apology should be made because of the ignorant trashing of a movie that has changed thousands of peoples lives for the better. Sincerely, Cindy St. John ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sharon Argus on Aug 04, 2004 at 09:19 AM
Hi, Just a note to let you know that the film "What the Bleep do we Know" has been a turning point in my life. I have always heard how important it is to love yourself but quickly returned to my normal thoughts of dissatisfaction with my body and how I present myself. I could relate in a very deep way to what this girl in the movie was feeling. How the photographs of water crystals gave her and me a concrete image of the importance of loving oneself. This is a movie that I want all my friends to see and see again. Maybe your movie editor needs to see it again. Sharon Argus, Encinitas, CA ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carol Routh on Aug 04, 2004 at 09:21 AM
I find it curious that a newspaper in a city so known for it's cutting-edge thinkers would publish a review such a your of "What the Bleep." You do your readers a severe disservice, and diminish the stature of your paper. A review such as this casts doubt on the quality of your reporting in other areas. You might look to this when trying to discover why thinking readers are dropping their subscriptions to your paper, or passing it over on the newsstand for more thoughtful sources of information. Here in Portland, even people skeptical of Ramtha and JZ found the movie profoundly thought-provoking, and almost everyone I've talked with about the movie has seen it twice, or more. Carol Routh Portland OR ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Judy Wagner on Aug 04, 2004 at 09:28 AM
I received your review of "What The Bleep" via email and was appalled! To degrade someone like Dr. Candice Pert is shameful! This woman has done more for the human race than your staff could ever do.....and she did it as a woman fighting for her love of humanity and her science in a world dominated by men. I could go on about the other scientists and their contributions to humanity that participated in the film. The world is wanting and needing a new paradigm and it is here....called "Quantum Physics". This explains the world we live in and gives hope for our future. As a reporter, I suggest you read Dr. Pert's book "Molecules of Emotions". Then, maybe, you will have a new insight as to what the film is all about and how we do create the world around us. Yours truly, Judy Wagner ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tara Strong on Aug 04, 2004 at 09:29 AM
What the Bleep changes lives. It’s changed mine and many others that I’ve taken to see the movie. It’s REAL, and I guess that that’s a foreign concept for Ms. Stein. I only think it fair for your paper to print another article about the movie on its effect on people. Since that is its purpose.
I’m surprised at you, San Francisco. Your reputation is one for being open-minded. Best regards, Tara Strong Portland, Oregon ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Beth Doyle on Aug 04, 2004 at 09:38 AM
Editor, I am a licensed psychotherapist and have been utilizing the theory of quantum physics in psychotherapy for the past 15 years to help my clients. It is all based on the science of life and the application to intention and creation of our own reality. Perhaps you need to have someone who review the movie who is able to think in a scientific manner or open to grasping new concepts. This is a movie that I have clients attend since it is a simple explanation of many principles that can immediately change their lives. Beth Doyle, LPC Salem, Oregon ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Barbara Bruce on Aug 04, 2004 at 09:58 AM
To the editor, Watching this film gave me great hope and comfort. The possibility that the world is beginning to use science to move us from fear to freedom is my life dream come true. I was fortunate enough to be in Portland when the film opened and have referenced this film to all of my friends and family here in Vancouver, Canada, repeatedly ever since.
The people I have shared the experience with are all interested in viewing the film... some out of curiosity, some for conformation of their own knowing. But all are excited with the reality that we are finally spending money, time and talent to investigate and discuss the issue of 'reality'. If you haven't noticed, people in coffee houses all over the world are sharing ideas, experiences and personal beliefs about life and death with a passion.
I have never read such a blatantly lazy review and am grateful our local paper makes a more of an effort to think before reporting. Shame on you for allowing your readers and loyal subscribers to be fed such narrow minded and archaic thinking. Most Sincerely, Barbara Bruce Vancouver, B.C. ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Carlton Ward on Aug 04, 2004 at 10:01 AM
The review by Ms Stein was disheartening. I have watched this movie 8 times and believe this to be the single most important movie I have ever seen. It has changed my life and I am now pursuing new avenues in my own life as a result of doors that were opened by "What the Bleep". When people were flocking to the theaters to see "Passion of the Christ" and leaving theaters with guilt and remorse, I left the theater after "What the Bleep" with optimism and hope. My prayer is that as many people who saw "Passion" will see "What the Bleep". In this day and age of biased reporting by news media's across the nation, I feel this review was just another slanderous slice job of a movie that is giving hope in a time when we need it most. Thank you, Carlton Ward ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christine Matiyow-Hoff on Aug 04, 2004 at 10:01 AM
Dear Editor, Perhaps the SF Chronicle should send someone to review the movie that knows something about this, or at least has an open mind. Rather than publish a closeminded opinion! For your information, I have seen this movie 7 times. Each time, I see something new. It has helped me in thinking and seeing in a different way. I have been so excited about it I have taken both family and friends and recommend it to everyone! Christine Matiyow-Hoff Registered Nurse, EMT, Nurse-Educator Prineville, Oregon ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cherly Merrill on Aug 04, 2004 at 10:08 AM
Hello, San Francisco Chronicle and Staff - especially Ms. Stein - Have you ever heard the saying "A mind is like a parachute. It only works if it is open...."?
I wonder what happened to the hearts of the ones of you who cannot entertain new possibilities, see truth set in front of you as a flower growing up in a pile of manure, and still choose to accept that you are the one seeing the world truly. Are you so in love with the way our world looks as shown on worldwide media? Have you no desire to see our world change for the better? Or, perhaps, you are afraid to have hope that there really is something out there - more accurately within each heart - that could make changes happen for the good of all?
Cynicism is a killing energy. Thank God what we are seeing across the board with the success of this film and Fahrenheit 911 (and there are more coming), is quite clearly that what mascarades these days as journalism and opinion touted as expert are no longer holding much sway with real people. The only thing being killed is your credibility.
Have you taken a good and honest look in the mirror of your own heart lately? There is no time like the present (it's a gift, get it?) to get on the train moving to create Heaven on Earth. "It is much easier to ride the horse in the direction it is going" to quote a rather (in)famous San Franciscan.
The people are speaking to you. Are you listening? Can you see it?
Blessings for full recovery of Heart and Mind - Cheryl Merrill Portland, Oregon ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ben Geddy on Aug 04, 2004 at 10:13 AM
Dear Editors: In response to Ms. steins review of "What the Bleep do we know", I can only say, that it is a shame that such a great paper as yours as such lame employees. I always read the chronicle when I am in town (often), and will refrain from doing so in the future. I am sorry Ms. Stein had such a painful childhood, so can not see the forest for the trees (or particles) in our quantum world. Perhaps intense therapy can one day help her heal those wounds. Best Regards, Ben Geddy Sedona, AZ ----------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marguerite Bonnett on Aug 04, 2004 at 10:15 AM
Dear SF Chronicle: To find such a small mind in the backwaters of Tennessee would not be so surprising. But in San Francisco? Well, maybe that’s not so surprising after all. When people set themselves up as “criticsâ€
Title: scary shit
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2007, 10:45:24 AM
Quote
complex System Management software
Wow I am impressed. Do that mean the software is complex or does it meant the Systems that the software management pakage manages are complex or both. I would love to read that source code.
Quote
I personally have studied higher dimensional mathematics, (topology)
I have been to the Pittsburgh Zoo, that don't make me a lion.
And the scariest:
Quote
I am a licensed psychotherapist and have been utilizing the theory of quantum physics in psychotherapy for the past 15 years to help my clients.
I use electro magnetic wave theory to heat cold coffee, but the coffee is not paying me a "C" note an hour, it is effective and has no lasting side effects. What can the curve of binding energy inform you about your emotional state? The bell went off. My coffee is done.
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on October 21, 2007, 11:01:40 AM
From: Your reJSM on Aug 04, 2004 at 10:51 AM
I just read Ms. Stein's review of "What the Bleep?" It is a singularly uninformed and unintelligent piece of writing, not worthy of far lesser publications than the SF Chronicle. As a former Silicon Valley CEO who is currently enrolled in a ministerial education program, I found the film to be highly relevant to the on-going process of bringing spirituality and science into closer alignment -- a major challenge for the raising of consciousness in a sometimes "unconscious world". I would recommend that you assign someone with appropriate qualifications in the areas of science and spirituality to view and review this film. It would be an excellent service to your readership. Sincerely, JSM
A former CEO!!! And now "enrolled in a ministerial education program!" OMG, I faint with awe at the sheer aura!
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on January 02, 2008, 10:13:23 PM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote
http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?id=206779 (http://www.ecademy.com/account.php?id=206779) Pavel Mikoloski Marketing Guru Self London UK UK
Ecademy ID: 206779
Quote
3rd Symposium 2006 « Getting It Out There What is the secret[/color] behind a low budget "pseudo" documentary feature that made over $10 million at the box office? In the US it sold out small theatres for months and was then launched into 60 theatres by Samuel Goldwyn Films. It has created an overwhelming buzz on the internet (not all positive). So what was the marketing genius behind getting "What the Bleep Do We Know" out there? Marketing director Pavel Mikoloski will explain how it was done from the ground up. (http://http://www.discovery-campus.de/v2/page/symposia/symposia_programme/28/)
For some reason, the above came immediately to my mind when I read this in the Fall 2004 Alumni Newsletter:
=============================
SHARE THE SECRET[/color][/b] (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20040716054403/hyde.edu/materialuploads/HydeAlumniNews2004.pdf) Recently, Laurie Hurd and Duncan McCrann announced the launch of a major campaign to increase awareness about Hyde. The help of alumni in the form of time, energy, enthusiasm, and creative thinking is needed. Simply put, it's a new world for Hyde and other New England boarding schools. The recent proliferation of new educational options for students and families has created a challenge for boarding school admissions, a challenge that we at Hyde are eager to face with your help.
As alumni, you don't have to be sold on the impact of Hyde on families. There is little doubt that if more families knew about Hyde, they would pursue enrollment. In some ways, Hyde is the best-kept secret in American education! It is where hope is restored and potential is realized.
This fact led to a new campaign that will "ignite" conversation and interest about Hyde, a venture where everyone connected to Hyde is passing along the Hyde "secret" to people they meet everyday—school counselor, minister, friend, therapist, colleague—to ultimately transform the mystery into knowledge.
In the coming months, you will hear more about Share the Secret. By working together to spread the word about Hyde we will reach families that could benefit from what our schools offer, and have some fun in the process. Please contact Laurie Hurd at 207-443-7105, dmccrann@hyde.edu (http://mailto:dmccrann@hyde.edu), to pass along any campaign development ideas.
=============================
Apparently at least one person took that "campaign" to heart. From urban dictionary's definition of "hyde (http://http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=2&term=hyde)":
=============================
9. Hyde Thumbsup 29 up, 67 down Thumbsdown
The best kept secret in American education. Pssssst.....What's the best kept secret in American education. by Jay Brizzle Jan 26, 2005 email it
Are you saying Pavel M has something to do with this "Hyde is the best-kept secret in American education!" campaign?
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Ursus on January 03, 2008, 09:50:12 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Are you saying Pavel M has something to do with this "Hyde is the best-kept secret in American education!" campaign?
I honestly don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn of some preparatory conversations of that ilk.
Although "secret" and "mystery" appear to be buzz words amongst the newage cults these days, what twigged a certain recognition for me was the call for publicity from a grassroots swelling of support. The exhortations sound very similar to the way "What the Bleep?" supporters were rallied to arms. Whether this Hyde "campaign" is, in fact, partially or exclusively Paul's handiwork... I haven't a clue.
One thing is for sure: it certainly doesn't sound like the methodology of a mainstream Public Relations firm, ha haa! If it actually worked, they'd be losing money! Not to mention the... er... grammatical finesse employed in the notice. :lol:
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 11:22:16 AM
Quote from: ""Joey Shakes -Moitoza""
Hey whats the best kept secret in education? HYDE my good friend. So i have dropped 80 g's joey will you tell me yet? No not until you donate your life's earnings to fairshare... (fairshare is the group of people who collect your money if you dont donate they guilt trip you to hell.) 80k and Joey cant even enlighten me on his secret....
Title: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on January 03, 2008, 12:09:16 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Joey Shakes -Moitoza""
Hey whats the best kept secret in education? HYDE my good friend. So i have dropped 80 g's joey will you tell me yet? No not until you donate your life's earnings to fairshare... (fairshare is the group of people who collect your money if you dont donate they guilt trip you to hell.) 80k and Joey cant even enlighten me on his secret....
That may in fact be hyde's best kept secret. IIRC the way "Fair Share" is pitched to parents, it could be conspiracy to defraud the IRS. The pitch went something like: your tuition is not enough to cover real costs so you have to donate in addition. We do this because you can then declare a donation to a 501 on your taxes. Sounds like conspiracy to defraud to me but IANAL. That was how they got Capone.
Title: Re: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2008, 07:39:23 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Joey Shakes -Moitoza"
Hey whats the best kept secret in education? HYDE my good friend. So i have dropped 80 g's joey will you tell me yet? No not until you donate your life's earnings to fairshare... (fairshare is the group of people who collect your money if you dont donate they guilt trip you to hell.) 80k and Joey cant even enlighten me on his secret....
That may in fact be hyde's best kept secret. IIRC the way "Fair Share" is pitched to parents, it could be conspiracy to defraud the IRS. The pitch went something like: your tuition is not enough to cover real costs so you have to donate in addition. We do this because you can then declare a donation to a 501 on your taxes. Sounds like conspiracy to defraud to me but IANAL. That was how they got Capone.
"If you dont donate they guilt trip you to hell" is how I recall it as well. I got the distinct feeling that my "generosity" would somehow reflect on my child's education, though I wasn't sure how. I'm sure it influenced the other parents in our region, however.
Title: Re: From One Cult To Another...
Post by: Anonymous on August 03, 2008, 12:04:04 AM
OOOooo "the best kept secret" --more marketing BS! Trying to capitalize on "The Secret" no doubt. But hey, Oprah loves it, so it must be legit, right?