Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Carey on April 06, 2003, 07:28:00 PM
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Just want everyone who did not get a chance to read the last article on Dundee to know where to go to find it.
http://www.ticotimes.net/archive/03_20_03_2.htm (http://www.ticotimes.net/archive/03_20_03_2.htm)
Carey
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Does anyone know what happened to Boarding School Truth site? I suspect one of two things, either WWASP has paid them off to keep quiet or they have taken their site down due to the class action law suit that is underway.
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I can't say for certain, but I really don't believe BS4 could've been " paid off."
I don't know why a pending leagle action would matter.
I haven't seen anything anywhere other than speculation. Most seem to think wwasp somehow squashed it. What ever the answer, I wish it would pop back up - I miss it.
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How can WWASP simply squash it? I don't think that can be done without some explanation or reason being given. I don't beleive the owner of the website would let that happen without putting up a fight, not after all the hardwork that went into it. There is a reason why the owner of the website will not respond to those of us who have inquired. I can only come to the two conclusion I already stated. For some questionable reason, the owner is not willing state what those reason were.
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::alieneyesa:: :???:
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As I noticed, sites such as BS4 which were hosted as free sites by large ISP's (like Earthlink or Voy Forums) disappear regularly. The WWASPS legal tactics may run toward a threatening letter to the host ISP, saying in effect, "You are publishing inflammatory, false, damaging, etc. information and we will sue you if you continue to facilitate damage to our business". The large hosts who provide the bandwidth for free don't see any reason to spend even $10K defending themselves, and there doesn't need to be a bit of truth to the threats from WWASPS to make them decide to cancel the offending forums...just some saber-rattling by the Utah Abuse Poo-bahs. If we could get one ISP to stand up for its First Amendment free speech rights (and spend some money doing so), WWASPS would probably back down quickly, especially if the "loser" has to pay court costs. But the truth is that these ISP's consider controversial forums a tiny factor in their business, and quickly cave instead of standing up for constitutional rights. Too bad.
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I agree with spots. BS4 and "teenrebellion" were both on Angelfire. They were dropped from Angelfire within hours of each other. BS4 found another board to start over, but was kicked off of that one in a matter of days. Teenrebellion was a particularly good web site on WWASP and on Cross Creek Manor. BTW when I went to look for teenrebellion on Angelfire, the notice on her web page stated that she broke some contactual rules, but did not state what the rules were or how I could find out more from Angelfire.
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Dundee Ranch was a great program creating an environment for growth and change for its kids in its care. The owners out of safety concerns shut it down for the kids in their care in response to the riots created by the well intended but naive government of Costa Rica. The ?Temp? fiscal Mr. Vargas, (who wasn?t even a full official just a temp who covered for the full fiscals while on vacations) in a shameless grandstand for the gathered media was only driven by ambition and power. He possibly saw in the false allegations and the media attention the hope of a newfound political career and chance to become fully vested as a Fiscal. Who wouldn?t want to be seen by the world as ?saving kids? it?s as old as politicians kissing babies. Mr. Vargas in his illegal actions was told to stop and leave by the judge who is now suing him in Costa Rica. She was the true legal authority in the situation after Nicole deniken affirmed before her no abuse existed, after being harassed by Mr. Vargas for 2 hours to influence her testimony. What happened next created the only situation, we who worked there for 2 years knew of abuse to the kids and others who were the Dundee family?Vargas entered the scene only after the NY times had published a slanderous one-sided article on casa by the sea. The allegations by Ms Flowers had already been rejected by the supreme court of Costa Rica of having no evidence or merit the allegations had then been taken to the full time regular fiscal by casa alilanza. Casa alilanza is an advocacy group that makes its money out of the amount of publicity it creates with allegations for its causes some of which have great merit. But in this case they were poorly researched ?Mr. Harris or anyone else at casa alilanza for that manner, has publicly stated he has never been to Dundee. But simply relied on the allegations of Ms flowers just published to get more attention and therefore more money for his causes. Mr. Harris has recently been unsuccessfully sued in other countries for his outspoken approach which approach is fine if it?s the truth? Ms flowers is a person who had lost her parental rights to her daughter by her own actions and choices in a legal court of law in the United States. She came down to get the relationship back with her daughter at any cost including making up allegations of abuse. The local full-time ?Real? Fiscal reviewed the allegations and saw they were simply e-mail and hearsay from people of dubious motivations and character and shelved the information. Then 2 months later went on vacation and thus entered Mr. Vargas and the firestorm that has followed. False allegations of abuse are the most salacious situation that anyone can be in?in an environment wherein some kids see them as a ticket out of the program?. Allot of these kids have a long history of not telling the truth that is why they are there in many cases. These kids truly understand the social welfare systems that are set up rightfully for their protection and how to abuse or manipulate it dishonestly through a false allegation?Such allegations are sort of like running into a crowded room and yelling "Fire" it really doesn?t matter if there is a fire or not the media and others who make a living off of such gossip will automatically act as if there was and then you really do have a true case of "abuse" or "Fire" But not to kids or person who made the allegation but to the owners and employees who have literally put there livelihoods, reputations, and lives all on the line to try to help the kids in question. Again real people with real families and over 90 employees lost there jobs and reputations over these false allegations and are now being abused over and over again on forums such as this ?If you want truth here it is the only abuse we were aware of at Dundee was what has happened since the actions by Mr. Vargas and others
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Regarding the lengthy post supportive of Dundee, its actions in closing for the protection of the children, the name-calling of Fernando Vargas, etc....
Wow, does this sound like the quotes in interviews with Ken Kay!!!! Same syntax, same yadda-yadda about "they're all liars" and "kids are notoriously manipulative; you really have to watch them", blaming the non-custodial mom of a Dundee student for being, well, non-custodial, even though we all have absolutely no idea how the Court made such a determination. Likely, Ms. Flowers husband made much more money and was able to provide better for his daughter than the recently-divorced wife, except when he decided to use his money to have somebody else lock her up.
If Mr. Kay feels it necessary to respond in such a manner to our posts about abuse at Dundee, maybe we're on to something. Ken, don't you have people who do this stuff for you? Or are you so panicked that you sit at the computer and bang out the same ole crap that you give to reporters? Glenda should be available to spin her syrupy psycho-babble, especially since she was not able to put out a Source magazine this month, and sent out last month's edition instead. Hhmmm... having any kind of money crunch Mr. Kay?
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Big difference, SPOTS, is that this posters statements can be confirmed as the truth. The allegations served a purpose and hurt a lot of individuals and families. Thanks to the staff and director, no one was seriously physically injured by Mr. Vargas' actions. Can't say as much for the grounds, buildings...and emotions of those that were there.
I know nothing of Su Flowers, but wouldn't a court of law be very careful about taking the custody away from a mother without serious issues with her ability to take care of her daughter being researched first? Money or not?
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On 2004-02-14 11:34:00, spots wrote:
Glenda should be available to spin her syrupy psycho-babble, especially since she was not able to put out a Source magazine this month, and sent out last month's edition instead. Hhmmm... having any kind of money crunch Mr. Kay? "
http://www.wwasp.com/source03/Feb-04L.pdf (http://www.wwasp.com/source03/Feb-04L.pdf)
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it wasnt posted by Mr kay but by people who were actually there and have the facts...How deluded are you to think that freedom implies no limits... you sound just like Mr. Vargas before he started the riots at Dundee. He thought that the kids would respect him when he illegally told them they could do ANYTING... that some how in Costa Rica unlawful acts like sodomy, vandalism, and assault with clubs on the staff and other students was some how covered in the signing of some international treaty on Childs rights...He and the police and social workers, the very people charged by the law to protect the students stood by and watched as all the acts named above were performed in the name of freedom...Then they the adults Pani, Vargas and the police got in their cars and drove away as the fiasco worsened and didn?t turn out the way they thought it would for the press...as students were walking down the road to be kidnapped raped abused or whatever in a strange country?? Its so hypocritical to sit and talk about abuse that never happened and not address the real abuse by the Costa Rican officials trying to get their name in the World press at the expense of the safety of the 200 students and the 90 staff members whose lives and reputations have been slandered by people like those on this forum repeating gossip and slander that they really don?t know or understand. But then again the truth rarely sells newspapers as well as the false allegations do...and everyone is an expert with everyone else?s kid and situation...its sort of like the situation NOW and other women?s groups found themselves in when they failed to come out and condemn Clinton while he was abusing the office of the presidency, because he sang their song and had their world view.
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***Its so hypocritical to sit and talk about abuse that never happened and not address the real abuse by the Costa Rican officials trying to get their name in the World press at the expense of the safety of the 200 students and the 90 staff members whose lives and reputations have been slandered by people like those on this forum repeating gossip and slander that they really don?t know or understand.***
Were you there anon? Or are you taking the word of a journalist, or the word of program staff, or the word of Kay? It is not hypocritical to discuss and debate issues that are reported in pubic news, whether accurate or not. My ONLY critcism- I did wonder why the CR authorities didn't take the kids to a safe holding space until their parents could arrange for them to be shipped to the states.
...and everyone is an expert with everyone else?s kid and situation...
Oh give us a break. We know you make $1000 for every referal you provide the program. Are you presuming yourself to be an expert when you suggest that a child should be warehoused? You program people are the worst for telling other parents what they should do with their kids.
***its sort of like the situation NOW and other women?s groups found themselves in when they failed to come out and condemn Clinton while he was abusing the office of the presidency, because he sang their song and had their world view***
Abusing the office of presidency? Guess you're refering to Monica? What two consenting adults do is none of your business, or anyone else's for that matter. Perhaps those groups are a little more on the ball with this issue than yourself. Ms Monica was not a "victim". My recollection is that she initiated the affair. I resent that $1 of my tax dollars went to this fiasco. What a waste. I spose you'd have him warehoused in a personal growth facility for "womanizers". So program of you.
Seriously, are you more concerned about the moral issue, him being married? Or that he was diddling on the clock? Was he on the clock 24/7?
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Anon. Those that are condeming you for telling the truth about the events at Dundee, are not wwasps people, for the mostpart. They have been involved in other programs and are forever saying it's the "same" thing. My heart goes out to you because I know you cared for those kids. WWASPS programs respect kids and want them to learn to respect themselves. Too many parents that condemn you on this board that were wwasps parents still wanted to control their child's actions while they were gone. They were looking for any excuse to bring their child home because they felt guilty for not being able to handle it by themselves. A mature parent will know when to let go and get help for themselves and well as their child. Too many of us know that it didn't work at home because our children didn't think they were destroying their lives and didn't buy into therapy or other sources we tried prior to turning to long term treatment. No one here will believe our kids were not abused. You will agree that they were more abusive to themselves and just loved to blame other people for their choices.
Some lady talked about sleep deprivation somewhere on this board. Yes, we were sleep deprived, but it wasn't during seminar, it was when our kids were out running the streets, getting high, and disrespecting the family in ways that were way beyond normal teen stuff.
I won't lower my standards to justify the view it was "normal."
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Deborah - got news for you. A parent that talks to other parents about a wwasps program NEVER tells them what they should do. The parents in crisis really need to figure that out for themselves. When they see the results from the teens that graduated, they want what they have and consider it an investment, not an expense. The parents that talk to the other parents do it from their hearts, not their wallets, as you so nicely assumed. As a parent that was once where they were, I was so grateful to talk with someone who understood the fear and didn't seize the moment by scaring me even more. I did that myself. That parent got ZERO dollars for talking with me, but I would have gladly paid her ten times over for being there for me.
Now my family has what those families had over 4 years ago. I'm on here because it's really unbelievable that this crap is being written about a program that changes so many people for the better.
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In any country that has ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of a Child any child held against their will is being held against international law.
doesn't matter whether you think it's right or wrong- it's part of the treaty and was thoughtfully added.
I'm sorry for parents that had sleepness nights worried about their children...(maybe their own parents had the same nights yet did not pay to have them incarcerated to get some sleep and most grew out of it as the parents walked through it with them)
What really makes me sick is those that continue to dwell on what my child did to me.. someday I hope they will know that the child they incarcerated may have many sleepless nights accompanied my nightmares that may be more real than we all know and you may have paid for it.
Your child may not be your biggest problem. Sadly your child may reap what you sowed.
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That last post was one BIG assumption. Maybe this, maybe that. My wish is that every child who was given the gift of the wwasp program reaps the benefits, and for the parents that cared enough to go the distance as hard as it was/is. You are my heroes!
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Again, I note the floods of gushing parents praising the programs to the skies and the virtual absence of people who have actually been incarcerated in these places, and been out for five years or more, showing up to discuss their program experience in both careful detail *and* having that experience not include being abused or neglected or witnessing the abuse or neglect of others.
I predict very lonely aging experiences for these program parents.
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What I noticed is more defense for sending your child away. No answers to the questions about where you draw the line in terms of abuse and BM techniques. Are we to assume that you support the techniques spelled out by others- punishment for looking out the window, looking at the opposite sex, looking at self in the mirror; limited calories, restraint, kneeling for hours on a hard surface, etc? I'm sure i missed a few.
I suppose that is irrelevant to you. Other parents want to know how their child will be "treated" while in "long-term" care. You make this BM program sound like a bonefide psychiatric hospital. Long-term treatment.... :lol: in a program designed by a used car salesman and a electrical engineer. Appears neither possessed credentials to set up a facility(s) for "long-term treatment"?
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The International treaty on children?s rights in section five states the following
Article 5
States Parties shall respect the responsibilities, rights and duties of parents or, where applicable, the members of the
Extended family or community as provided for by local custom, legal guardians or other persons legally responsible for the child, to provide, in a manner consistent with the evolving
Capacities of the child, appropriate direction and guidance in the exercise by the child of the rights recognized in the present Convention.
Simply put this means that the Parents or guardians rights of how to educate and what kind of boarding school the child attends is to be respected and recognized...otherwise a true Owellian dictatorship of a state not the family will dictate the values the child learns one could argue that this is already the case and the family is being destroyed by real intended but misguided people in Governments all over the world...no one has a better feeling for the needs of the child then the parents who are naturally, bond by blood and genetics and affection.
The children at Dundee where not held against their will but were enrolled by the parents whose rights as recognized by the treaty had every right to place them in Dundee...If you follow the argument just advanced in that the children were held against their will then how can government have compulsorily education wherein if the child refuses to go to school both the child and the parent go to jail AGAINST THEIR WILL...Again this is Political Correctness run amok if you place your child in a prestigious boarding school on the east coast he or she cant get up and walk out onto the street and the dangers there in with out the parents release and the schools release this is identical to what existed at Dundee. The children were placed in the boarding school in some cases in lieu of Juvenile prison...Dundee never put a gun to these parents heads to sign their contract and do placement.... The parents exercised there rights in behalf of their wayward children according to National and international rights...DUNDEE WAS THE AGENT OF THE PARENTS by signed and notarized legal contract and thus acting to any reasonable interpretation of the placement of children in a boarding school environment...If children were ever stopped from leaving it was out of concerns for their own safety and at anytime the parent requested them to leave they did?. the policy was very clear and followed religiously. Again well intended Beliefs or interpretation of law by advocates of child rights do not determine the law the law determines itself with its intent and the law on parental rights for minor children in this case is clear and well defined by past judicial presedent.
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OK, so Dundee was an agent of the parents - doesn?t that just mean that the parents are Intitled to the Truth about Circumstances and Conditions at Dundee?
I would think so. . .
I am certain they were not.
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It used to be legal for parents to kill their children, or put them to work in mines and sweatshops. It used to be legal for parents to break their children't bones, or starve them, or beat them and leave huge welts.
In Atlanta, the House of Prayer found out that times have changed and community standards of what constitutes abuse and neglect really do matter.
It's pretty clear to me that if the rest of us in the community want to exercise oversight to ensure minimal community standards of safe and humane childcare are met, we're going to have to intervene through Congress and our state legislatures first, and then through our state agencies and state and federal courts.
So be it.
The more the Atlanta House of Prayer parents screamed that it was okay and necessary to beat kids with sticks and belts, the more the community came to realize those folks needed to be reigned in by force of law and the courts.
The more the Program parents scream that it's okay and necessary to punish kids for looking out a window and restrict their mail and limit their food and throw them in restraints, the easier it gets for me to persuade friends, family and other community members that you folks need to be reigned in by force of law and the courts.
I'd like to take a moment to thank all you Program parents for assisting us in the ongoing effort to build momentum to regulate your sorry asses and protect children from your excesses.
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Every state in our union has child abuse laws to protect children from abuse- if parents always make the best decisions for their children we'd have less need for these laws. I would guess the majority of abuse is handed out by parents as decisions are easily made in anger, retaliation and a show of power.
Parents that are prepared to follow a program directed parents "exit plan" from their child and basically disown their children unless they complete the chosen program may not be the best advocates for their kids. It would seem that they have a somewhat short sited view and are not concerned about long term relationships unless of course the child gets with the program.
I am not convinced that many have tried every avenue of help but have found promises in the warranty on children and lower costs with the hope of financial help through the financial rewards of referring other families.
What looks like a take all referrals without professional evaluation is also concerning. You could be on your way to Harvard on a scholarship but if your parents were convinced you needed this treatment- it seems you could be kidnapped in the middle of the night and the program may hold you for years.
That stinks.
I agree with others that some of these parents will pay the ultimate price - never knowing their adult children and in some cases how can you blame the children, some may wish for a warranty on their parents.
don't have all the answers but believe we can do better for children and families. This industry is out of control.
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On 2004-02-17 08:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It used to be legal for parents to kill their children, or put them to work in mines and sweatshops. It used to be legal for parents to break their children't bones, or starve them, or beat them and leave huge welts.
In Atlanta, the House of Prayer found out that times have changed and community standards of what constitutes abuse and neglect really do matter.
It's pretty clear to me that if the rest of us in the community want to exercise oversight to ensure minimal community standards of safe and humane childcare are met, we're going to have to intervene through Congress and our state legislatures first, and then through our state agencies and state and federal courts.
So be it.
The more the Atlanta House of Prayer parents screamed that it was okay and necessary to beat kids with sticks and belts, the more the community came to realize those folks needed to be reigned in by force of law and the courts.
The more the Program parents scream that it's okay and necessary to punish kids for looking out a window and restrict their mail and limit their food and throw them in restraints, the easier it gets for me to persuade friends, family and other community members that you folks need to be reigned in by force of law and the courts.
I'd like to take a moment to thank all you Program parents for assisting us in the ongoing effort to build momentum to regulate your sorry asses and protect children from your excesses.
"
Well said Anon! Parents who sanction the abuse of their own children are beneath contempt. They are not parents. They are defective human beings with no conscience and unworthy of any reward other than a one-way ticket to Hell.
:flame:
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Anon,
Not so fast! I too at one time beleived the program was a gift to my child.I really did believe that. I use to say "my child is one of the lucky ones." I belived he was receiving quality care.That he was recieving emotional growth, leadership skills, a quality education.
It was all a lie. He was dodging verbal and emotional, physical mistreatment. Striving to stay under the radar of the "alledge" sexual predators.
If only what they sold us, was even close to the reality. Wakeup they lie.
The GIFT is no gift . It's a sham for money. Rackeetering of children for MONEY.
If the Program is such a gift where are the kids singing their praises .All I have ever heard are the complaints. The complaints made my blood run cold.
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Staff and Faculty at Carolina Springs Academy:
I just wanted to write a small note thanking everybody in the WWASP program for making my family safe again. Before having a daughter like Hannah, I could not imagine how a self-destructive teen can not only destroy themselves, but can destroy the lives of their entire family. Though our friends and family are well intentioned, and try to be empathetic, I see even they still don't understand how a single teenage person can destroy the lives of so many people. They still have no idea what it is like to watch your family be torn apart, when everything we've tried has failed and in most cases made the situation worse. Every family experiences some disagreement and difficult times, but most people honestly just don't understand that a family can be ripped to shreds through the actions of an unruly teenager. This family can try everything and can simply run out of choices when family imposed consequences fail, counseling and therapy fails, school interventions fail, even our extended family, aunts and uncles, cousins and grandparents couldn't help either.
When Hannah was living at home, our entire family was in chaos. Her mother and I were having marital problems, as she tried diligently to break up our marriage. She almost succeeded by telling her counselor that I (her step-father) was beating her up. Fortunately the counselor was able to see through the ruse, but legally he had to report it to social services anyway. Her younger brother and sister were living in constant fear. Though Hannah's room was not near theirs, her mother and I were unable to sleep at night fearing that she would go into their room to attack them. The last straw was the night she attacked her brother with a baseball bat while her mother and I had gone to the grocery store. Luckily her brother was able to barricade himself in his room before she harmed him, but the hole in his bedroom door remains as a reminder of just why we made the choice to enroll Hannah in Carolina Springs. I will never know the terror he must have experienced in that room alone as she began to tear through his door while cussing at him, screaming and threatening him in the process...thank God we got home when we did!!
Since Hannah has been enrolled, we are en entirely different family. I still remember the day, about a week after she was gone when I was taking laundry to the washing machine. As I approached the door to the laundry room, which also led toward Hannah's room, I felt my stomach tense up and my heart sink. Then I remembered...oh yes, she's not here anymore, it's safe for all of us. I slept very well that night...for the first time in months. Her brother and sister and mother and I are a family again. We laugh together, we enjoy time together, we play games together and enjoy projects together. I am happy to report that those who know us are beginning to see why we made the choice to enroll Hannah. People who spend time in our house are noticing that her brother is becoming an extrovert, laughing and enjoying life more now than ever before. He is enjoying sports and making friends, where he used to stay in his room and be quiet for days with fear of upsetting his older sister. Her younger sister is developing her own identity, listening to positive and uplifting music and making friends that have a positive influence on her life, instead of attracting to the self-destructive types that Hannah (her role model) had displayed. To any person who is concerned about the effectiveness of Carolina Springs and other WWASP programs, I would invite them to spend some time with a family that has been directly involved and has experienced the benefits first hand.
What is most remarkable is the change we've seen in Hannah herself. She is beginning to take the steps required to learn responsibility and self-respect. (Which of course leads to respect for others as well.) Not only is our household safe now, but Hannah is also in a safe environment where she can no longer experiment with drugs, sex and other self-destructive behavior. There is no family that can provide 24-hour around the clock supervision for their children the way Hannah and many other children need. We learned this when she was skipping school. I am writing because I received a letter from Hannah last week, and in it she said "I love you" In all the years I have knows Hannah she has never uttered those words to me before. We are seeing signs of incredible change not only in our family, but in Hannah, whom we love so much we made many great sacrifices (refinancing the home and taking out other loans) to do this incredible thing for her. I am so very grateful for your school, and that you are able to do provide the direction and guidance for Hannah to help her begin to make these more productive choices.
God Bless you and the Wonderful Work that you do
Gregory A. Miller
P.S. Hannah was one of the students who moved to Carolina Springs from Dundee Academy in Costa Rica. When Dundee closed, our first priority was to get Hannah home. So we got to visit with Hannah for two days before she moved on to Carolina Springs. We were blunt, we shared the rumors of abuse and negligence we had heard in Costa Rica, and we let Hannah read the newspaper reports. Hannah assured us in her own words. "None of that happened" she told us. "It's really hard" she said, "and I miss my family, but I know that I am learning some very valuable things." Hannah had only been in Dundee ranch for a few months, and was still a level one with the fewest privileges and perks allowed. If anyone were to be negative about the school it would have been her. However after being in Dundee Ranch Hannah made the choice to go to Carolina Springs, because she knew it was in her best interest!!
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Dear George,
What a lovely story. I am sure Hannah appreciates her name being on this public forum.
She obviously is not home yet, and yes I read your footnotes. Personally, I am very happy for the new family life you all have and I only pray the success and growth continues.
BUT does that justify all the abuse, fraud and neglect others have experienced? No it doesn't. All the best to you and yours, but my thougths are with the ones that have suffered, the ones you don't want to hear about.
A parent that has been there.
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Yeah, talk to me in a few years....I remember feeling the same way right after I got out of 'treatment'. Thought I owed my life to those people etc. etc. After about a year and a half I couldn't figure out why I was so damn angry, sad, depressed and so on. I mean, I was SOBER...going to meetings, going to aftercare, even married another graduate. When I was able to associate with normal people again, I began to realize how controlled I still was and how I didn't see any of the shit that happened to me as abuse. I had it pounded into my head so many times that I would be 'dead or on the street' without the program that I BELIEVED it for a time. Same with the other shit about how I did the things necessary to deserve being put in there, blah, blah, blah. Look up Stockholm Syndrome....you'll see a description of what has happened to your daughter. I hope when she wakes up from lala land (and she will, most definitely) she'll be able to find it in her heart to forgive you. I hope you'll be able to see the gravity of your mistake.
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-- George Carlin
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Mr. Miller, I read your statement and accept your "belief" that this school has helped, not harmed, your child.
My question to you is how do you reconcile the possibility that your daughter most likely was acting out in proportion to the turmoil created by her parent's marital difficulties?
Personally, I believe family therapy was in order here, not forced behavior modification for a young, albeit very angry, girl.
I also question whether your daughter's endorsement of these 2 programs is not grounded in her own belief that she may be better off being in a program than at home, where she was clearly miserable?
If so, then how in the world can you equate that with success? This is parenting by proxy.
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On 2004-02-18 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Staff and Faculty at Carolina Springs Academy:
I just wanted to write a small note thanking everybody in the WWASP program for making my family safe again.........
God Bless you and the Wonderful Work that you do
Gregory A. Miller
P.S. Hannah was one of the students who moved to Carolina Springs from Dundee Academy in Costa Rica. When Dundee closed, our first priority was to get Hannah home. So we got to visit with Hannah for two days before she moved on to Carolina Springs. We were blunt, we shared the rumors of abuse and negligence we had heard in Costa Rica, and we let Hannah read the newspaper reports. Hannah assured us in her own words. "None of that happened" she told us. "It's really hard" she said, "and I miss my family, but I know that I am learning some very valuable things." Hannah had only been in Dundee ranch for a few months, and was still a level one with the fewest privileges and perks allowed. If anyone were to be negative about the school it would have been her. However after being in Dundee Ranch Hannah made the choice to go to Carolina Springs, because she knew it was in her best interest!!"
The following is an excerpt from Orange Papers http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html (http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-gulags.html) :
Carolina Springs Academy near Abbeville, S.C., promises a pleasant stay in the country,
"But investigators for the South Carolina Department of Social Services found conditions there far less idyllic. In the fall, the agency three times ordered the facility to close because it was operating without a state license. Richard Byars, Carolina Springs' director at the time, refused, saying the compound was a boarding school, not a residential care facility, and didn't need a license."
State social services investigators inspected the facility in December and January. Their reports said that they found a very long list of abuses and malpractice, including that:
The doctor who was "treating" many of the teens never actually visited the facility.
Several teens, including at least one who had attempted suicide before arriving at Carolina Springs, no longer were taking medication for depression.
One girl told them that another girl "tried to kill herself. She was hitting, kicking, spitting, etc. They said that her hands were crossed over her chest and her wrists were handcuffed behind her neck. They said duct tape was put over her mouth and around her legs. At the top of the stairs, she jumped on her head to try to break her neck so she could go to the hospital."
The social services agency said the staff members at Carolina Springs weren't qualified to work with teens. Most of the staff's previous work experience was nothing more than flipping burgers for minimum wage.
Children's records contained little information about previous hospital stays and psychological evaluations.
Teens' letters home were censored to keep them from telling their parents what was going on.
Both the state's Department of Social Services and the Department of Health and Environmental Control sought court injunctions to order the facility closed.
When this story ended, the facility was still open and still keeping teenagers prisoner, while it and its lawyers negotiated with the state agencies.
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that one was me :wave:
To go to Journal of Applied Polymer Science go to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com) and then journal search and put the journal number and year
-- Journal of Applied Polymer Science Vol. 47, 1984
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"because she knew what was in her best interest"
has anyone ever heard that before!
damn, dont any of you people have an ORIGINAL fucking thought? what was in her best interest! perhaps they discussed, at school, what was in her best interest, b/f she came home. ok, you have your perception and reality, but i'm not eatin what you're cookin. sounds like a shit pie to me.
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hands crossed over her chest, handcuffed behind her, duct tapped mouth. sounds like a recipe for axshysication. sounds like torture and dangerously close to murder. take a look at the death by restrain database. PLENTY of people in residential facilities die that way, all the time, year after year, there was one kid, 16, here in michigan last month. poor hannah, and all the rest. know they cant talk. its going a movement. however long it takes. we will move it forward, inch by inch and this will be stopped.
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P.S. Hannah was one of the students who moved to Carolina Springs from Dundee Academy in Costa Rica. When Dundee closed, our first priority was to get Hannah home. So we got to visit with Hannah for two days before she moved on to Carolina Springs. We were blunt, we shared the rumors of abuse and negligence we had heard in Costa Rica, and we let Hannah read the newspaper reports. Hannah assured us in her own words. "None of that happened" she told us. "It's really hard" she said, "and I miss my family, but I know that I am learning some very valuable things." Hannah had only been in Dundee ranch for a few months, and was still a level one with the fewest privileges and perks allowed. If anyone were to be negative about the school it would have been her. However after being in Dundee Ranch Hannah made the choice to go to Carolina Springs, because she knew it was in her best interest!!............ Its the same over and over amberly and the Brock twins all said they didn?t actually see abuse even though they first tried to put forth that argument and kid after kid has affirmed this was the case...Could Occam?s Razor be at work here (the principle that states the simplest solution in absence of other evidence is usually the truth) and we have a simple case of false allegations purported by vested interest and dubious persons that disrupted over 200 families and destroyed the lives of over 95 more? Truth is always independent of opinions. It is the knowledge of things as they are and were and how they are yet to be I was there and have over 100 other witnesses to the fact that abuse didn?t exist Now if there was in any form I wasn?t honestly aware and if in fact it did exist I would say let due process have its way and if a staff did something like that let them go after that person. I saw the training that went on every night where the staff would be quizzed and even sign off on the training that insured that abuse was not allowed in any form?. if some staff did something different they did so without the authorization or knowledge of the administration and if so I would be the first to say go after them but quit condemning a whole facility for the unauthorized ?theoretical actions of some staff who chose to not follow the ethics and codes of the company and the law??Again whoa unto them with eyes but will not see...I have included the following directly from my employee manual at Dundee that we were tested on nightly and therefore knew very well what the standards of the company was. I never was aware of any such violations that I personally witnessed in my 2 years there I even recall a meeting that Mr. Lichfield held with all staff and students in the cafeteria following the Brock twins accusations. Mr. Lichfield told the students that if they were being mistreated in any way to let the administration know immediately. He explained again the only circumstances directly from the testing that passive restraint could be used. He also told the Staff and students the administration would have a full investigation on any allegations of this and would not protect any staff that broke the company rules and if a staff ignored the training and chose on their own to do something else he would turn them in if they broke the law in regards to Abusing any student?
Personal Growth of Students:
Staffs are not allowed to treat students in the following manner:
1. Swearing at them
2. Making fun of them
3. Name calling or using nicknames
4. Belittling or demeaning them
5. Shouting at them
6. Refer to them in a derogatory manner
7. Using physical force other than for appropriate restraint according to training as taught in the Mandt or TLC trainings and only in cases of endangerment by students of property, themselves, staff or others.
8. Orders or commands should be replaced with request or invitations to cooperate.
9. Threats or intimidation
EMPLOYEE CODE OF CONDUCT
Definitions:
For the purposes of this rule:
1. Abuse to students will include but is not limited to:
A. A strike with open or closed fist, slap, tap, spank, kick, push, shove.
B. Any type of physical hitting or any type of physical punishment inflicted in any manner upon the body.
C. Physical exercises, such as running laps or performing push-up, except in accordance with an individual's service plan when such activities are approved by the physician and carefully supervised by the facility administration.
D. Requiring or forcing the individual to take an uncomfortable position, such as squatting or bending, or requiring or forcing the individual to repeat physical movements when used solely as a means of punishment.
E. Chemical, mechanical or physical restraints except when authorized by individual's Personal Growth plan and administered by appropriate personnel or when threat of injury to the client or other persons exists.
F. Assignment of unduly physically strenuous or harsh work.
G. Encouragement to engage in or failure to attempt to deter behavior inherently dangerous.
2. Maltreatment will include, but is not limited to:
A. Group punishments for misbehavior of individuals except in accordance with the program's written policy.
B. Verbal abuse; using language that impacts the well being of the individual. This may include but is not limited to name-calling, teasing, humiliation, ridicule, use of foul and abusive language etc.
C. Withholding any meal.
D. Excessive denial of ongoing program services or denial of any essential program service solely for disciplinary purposes.
E. Denial of visiting or communication privileges with family or significant others solely for disciplinary purposes.
F. Denial of sufficient sleep.
G. Requiring the individual to remain silent for long periods of time.
H. Denial of shelter, clothing or bedding.
I. Extensive withholding of emotional response or stimulation.
J. Exclusion of the individual from entry to the residence.
K. Failure to provide adequate supervision; including impairment of employee resulting in inadequate supervision. Impairment of an employee may include but is not limited to use of alcohol and drugs, illness, sleeping.
L. Failure to provide medical care and/or medical Personal Growth as prescribed or instructed by a physician.
3. Sexual abuse and sexual exploitation will include, but not be limited to:
A. Engaging in sexual intercourse with any student.
B. Touching the anus or any part of the genitals or otherwise taking indecent liberties, or causing an individual to take indecent liberties with the intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person.
C. Employing, using, persuading, inducing, enticing or coercing an individual to pose in the nude for the purpose of sexual arousal of any person or for profit.
D. Employing, using, persuading, inducing, enticing or coercing an individual to engage in any sexual or simulated sexual conduct for the purpose of photographing, filming, recording, or displaying in any way the sexual or simulated sexual conduct and includes displaying, distributing, possessing for the purpose of distribution, or selling material depicting nudity, or engaging in sexual or simulated sexual conduct.
E. Committing or attempting to commit acts of sodomy or molestation.
4. Exploitation will include, but is no limited to:
A. Utilizing the labor or power of an individual without giving just or equivalent return.
B. Taking or using property belonging to clients.
C. Selling items to clients.
D. Acceptance of gifts as a condition of receipt of program services.
Abuse, Neglect and Maltreatment Prohibited
1. No contracted individual, agency, or employee shall abuse or neglect any student.
A. No person shall cause physical injury to any student. All injury to clients (explained or unexplained) shall be documented and immediately reported to supervisory personnel.
B. Any person having reason to believe that any student has been subject to abuse shall immediately make a report to the Administrator.
C. No person by acting, failing to act, encouragement to engage in, or failure to deter from will cause any individual to be subject to maltreatment physically, emotionally, socially, or intellectually.
D. Any person having reason to believe that any student has been subject to such maltreatment shall document the situation and immediately make a report to the Administrator.
Sexual Abuse and Sexual Exploitation Prohibited
1. No contracted individual, agency, or employee shall sexually abuse or sexually exploit any student.
A. No person shall engage any individual as an observer or student in sexual acts.
B. Any person having reason to be believe that any student has been subjected to sexual abuse or exploitation shall document the situation and immediately make a report to the Administrator.
Student Exploitation Prohibited
1. No contracted individual, agency, or employee shall exploit any student.
A. No person shall make unjust or improper use of an individual or their resources for profit of advantage.
B. Any person having reason to be believed that any client has been subject to exploitation shall document the situation and immediately make a report to the Administrator.
Reporting Requirements
1. Any contracted individual, agency, or employee is responsible to document and report abuse, neglect, maltreatment and exploitation as outlined in this Code and cooperate fully in any resulting investigation.
A. Any person will immediately report abuse, neglect, maltreatment or exploitation, in writing, to the Administrator. During weekends and on holidays such reports will be made to the District Office of Community Operations On-Call worker.
B. All reports and documentation made regarding situations of abuse, neglect, and exploitation will be made available upon request to the Administrator.
2. Any person, including, but not limited to, any social worker, physician, psychologist, chaperone, teacher, or employee, who has a reason to believe that any person has been subject to abuse, neglect, or exploitation, shall immediately notify in writing to the Administrator.
3. Anyone who, in good faith, makes such a report shall be immune from civil liability in connection with the report.
4. Any person required to report a suspected case of abuse, neglect, or exploitation, who willfully fails to do so, is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
5. Any person, who abuses, neglects, or exploits, is guilty of a third degree felony.
With any violations of these, the student has a right to file a grievance and disciplinary action would occur where appropriate.
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My name is Christopher Riner, and I attended Dundee -- I started there and graduated there. As much as I would like to start raising hell and looking for government compensation checks for being a P.O.W. or something, I know it isn't going to happen, and so I have never even thought about making any false allegations about Dundee. I spent 16 months inside the walls of Dundee, and I would be more than happy to tell you about everything that went on. If you think that we were handcuffed and duct-taped, then you have obviously been reading one too many Dean Koontz novels. First of all, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to acknowledge the fact that you should hesitate to trust anything any of us from the program have said. We all have thousands of hours of experience lying. Having that said, I suggest you take a look at underlying intentions before you ingest and believe what we are all saying-- because we all aren't saying the same thing, and this is a direct result of the fact that we all have a different purpose in portraying Dundee. From my own experience (this includes 16 months of being with the other kids), every single allegation of abuse that I have seen made has been from someone that probably would have peed in my closet while I was there if they saw me looking at them the wrong way. Every student at the school came as a habitual liar, and many of us left as liars, still. There was physical restraint, but if you honestly believe that someone was duct-taped and handcuffed like that, then you should be reading the Weekly World News. I hear they found Osama and Saddam's gay videos... And if you believe that those of us who aren't saying anything about abuse (or who are denying it) are being quiet because we are afraid of something, then you have definitely lost your mind. Kids of the program are (and this is really true even before we go) some of the most free-willed, opinionated people that you will meet-- and the most committed, too. We speak what is on our mind, and care little for what others think. The only reason we wouldn't tell the truth is for some type of benefit. I will guarantee you one thing: I bet there hasn't been a single report of abuse from anyone who is 18 now, because they don't have to lie and say that it happens to not go back. And they wouldn't want to not go back because of fear of abuse, they would not want to go back because they wouldn't want to leave their homes again. If you have any questions you can email me at allhailslipknot@hotmail.com
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Hello there, warrior princess. My name is Christopher Riner, and I am not sure if you are a parent of a child who was in the program, or if you simply have a fervent desire to help out all of the victims in the situation, but if you do have kids that attended Dundee and know who I am, I would really like to talk to them. If you disapprove of this or would simply like to talk to me yourself, then please email me at allhailslipknot@hotmail.com Thanks a bunch.
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Christopher, has your email address changed?
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Anyone can reach me at either of the following email addresses: christopher_f_riner@hotmail.com (http://mailto:christopher_f_riner@hotmail.com). I am usually in my apartment after 4:30 p.m. daily. I look forward to speaking with you.
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A man says he's a liar, then he says that all program kids are liars, is he lying?
No, I don't so much think you're lying as brainwashed. Brainwashed into thinking and saying all program kids are liars, brainwashed into thinking physical restraints are harmless and normal , among other things.
Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.
James Madison
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Brainwashed? So let me get this straight, do you think that they "brainwashed" me into "forgetting all the abuse"?!?! You apparently didn't listen on my post when I stated that program kids say what they want to. I have almost been out for as long as I was in there, and so you'd think that the chemicals they used to brain wash me would have worn off by now. Dundee is a past chapter in my life; the only reason I respond to these damned things is because you people choose to be so damn ignorant. I'm telling you, you'd all make great candidates for weekly world news customers. As far as brainwashed goes-- we have two ways to look at things in life- positively or negatively. 6 months before I went to the program my brother got in a car wreck and my best friend was in the vehicle and died. He was the closest person that I had ever lost. Being in the program, I realized that sometimes life deals you a shitty hand, and you have to work with it. Those of us who actually tried to help ourselves out when we were in the program realized that we could make dundee whatever we wanted it to be: good or bad. For me it was all a big adventure. For some kids it was hell, and that's because they decided to feel that way about it-- not because they were abused. Dundee was the toughest episode of my life by far, but because of it I went from being a school drop-out to majoring in engineering at virginia tech with a 3.8. It gave me a chance to get off of drugs. A CHANCE. It was totally up to me whether or not I did anything when I got back- thats why they don't guarantee anything. If they really could brainwash us, then maybe there would be some gurantees; but we have free wills about deciding what we do, just as well as we have them about deciding what we say. You can't stop me from saying something that I want to. It makes me sick that you ignorant people actually believe that you are fighting for some type of just cause here.