Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Nihilanthic on January 08, 2007, 11:21:03 AM
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Having participated in a marital art (Brazilian jujitsu) that amounts to basically how to grab, take down/throw/trip/sweep someone, get on top of them, and choke, joint lock (or break) or beat someone up, and how to fight against that at every step, I'll mention a few things.
1. Do not fight back unless you, uh, know how! If I have to tell you this, ya don't. And even then if you're out numbered this amounts to "pulling guard" which is just putting your legs around the other person waist, and TIGHTLY squeezing yourself to them, and putting your arms around theirs or their torso or grabbing their upper arms. Naturally, if you don't know what you are doing it looks like dry humping or just nonsense. They're SUPPOSED to restrain you supine anyway, but if they insist on you turning your back I guess there isn't much you can do about it.
2. learn to fall? Simply going limp, holding your breath and closing your jaw (unless you like getting your tongue bitten off) can help fall without injury. Try to "roll down" instead of slam down on your hip or arm. Also, if you're already on the ground they can't slam you on it, so keep that in mind!
3. DO NOT PANIC. Stay calm, breathe, if there is pressure on your neck simply tense up the muscles at the front of your neck - someone could stand on you that way and you could still breathe. Keep your abdominal muscles slightly tense so you don't get the wind knocked out of you as easily. You tend to get the wind knocked out easiest if you are breathing in so be careful about it if you're being struck or someone likes to drop their weight on you via their hip, knee, or whatever to your back or chest.
4. If someone tries to cover your face turn your head quickly, and again, fight the urge to panic, it will only make it worse for you if they're looking for an excuse to hurt you and tire you out faster. Do not stop trying to breathe, keep focusing on that.
5. Go to a freaking BJJ class or something so you can put the damn guy trying to take you down into a crucifix or face lock :rofl: (not recommended...)
6. Try not to take it personally, or it will only start screwing with your mind. Sad to say, but thats kind of the point behind using restraints so damn much... submission to them. I'd say it amounts to rape without actually doing anything necessarily sexual :(
7. Avoid giving them reasons to restrain you in the first place. Ounce of prevention = pound of cure.
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IIRC its illegal in a lot of cases to restrain a friggin child in a psychiatric environment prone.
Its very dangerous, makes someone VERY panic easily, makes them very vulnerable to positional asphyxiation... it's just fucking stupid man!
Meh. I wonder if catching programs doing this shit would let us nail the bastards legally?
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Why did I move to a fucked up state?
I need a facepalm gremlin... :roll:
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I think your only long term recourse is to memorize the staffs name and face. Repeat the person's name before you go to bed everynight for a few weeks until it's ingrained into your very soul. Then later you can use this information to call the proper authorities, or seek your own personal revenge in whatever way you might feel necessary.
I don't really hold a grudge against those who restrained me. It's embarassing to talk about because I can't say I didn't bring it upon myself. But man, it felt good. When you are completely powerless, a good physical struggle sure can do wonders for the soul. Fighting to me is extremely intimate, second only to sex. It's almost like another way of sharing feelings, let me "show" you how pissed off I really am. Well obviously this doesn't go over well so I got my share fair of takedowns.
There are definitely a few different styles I've seen. At the private wwasps program I was at in montana, I was restrained a bunch of times in the hobbit and worksheets, sometimes for fucking around, other times for nothing. But there it was young staff, who had a hot head and it felt more like we were fighting or something, even though he was huge and always won. Being restained I found to be a completely different experience. That's when a group of people take full control of your body, and you can't do shit. You can't kick, you can't move your arms, you are totally powerless.
To me, that felt like a physical representation of what they were doing to our heads. That's what sucks about it I think, when it comes down to it, it's proven to you in action that you have no goddamn choice in the matter whatsoever. It can be a very clarifying moment.
Anyways. I agree with all the advice. But if a kid feels like fighting back, I think they should go right ahead. The staff can easily handle it, and it does a hell of a lot more good than the therapy ever would. But that would never fly because the point is to keep the kid feeling powerless, that's the game from the top. Also by restraining kids its showing them that everything being said about caring about them and that fake bullshit, its just that fake. Abusive parents do the same thing... when the words dont match the actions kids notice they aren't stupid.
Restraints at other facilities than private programs were different with better trained staff but not any less coercive by any means. This one state run camp I was at they seemed to be very trained in all ways of physically handling us, from escorting us down the hall to where they stood when we went to the bathroom. Much more professional, but again the same effect.
Psych ward restraints are not any different. Bunch of huge male "nurses" pile on top of you, but they got the added benefit of chemicals. Thorazine shot takes about .5 seconds to take effect and you become jello. Then they strap you down with leather straps in an isolation room with a metal bolted down bed face down with only a video camera to keep you company for 24 hrs.
So to me it seems like all the same shit, just a slightly different flavor.
If I had advice to give a kid I would say don't do the things necessary to deserve a restraint. Yeah sometimes it happens for no reason, but a lot of times it's provoked. I provoked it in most cases by trying to escape, breaking things, threatening people or fighting. But I needed to do that at the time. I couldn't just take it up the ass at that point in my life. I needed to fight back in order to save my own sanity.
You can't build a system and not expect the users of said system to push it to the edge and then some.. wishful thinking these socialists are. I am a firm believer in the power of human instinct.
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I completely agree. I am not "suggesting" other kids fight back. I am just relaying my own personal experience. Yes, you will get fucked up an injured if you do these things. But really, so what? Would you rather have those people say they love you, they are the only people who care about you and are trying to save you from yourself? Fuck them, they are lying.
Prove to yourself and the world who they really are, their true intentions. Let them show you through their actions. Push them until they drop the facade, make them show their true colors to everyone who watches. That's what I did, and it worked for me.
I can feel the anger pulsing through my veins, these threads of yours have a little too much truth in them TSW.. :wink:
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A lot of these places require pencils and pens as part of their regular exercises; wait until some other kid is being restrained, then strike.
Your goal is not to "hurt". Your goal is to permanently maim. Find the staffer who has his hands full the most, grab his head, and ram that sumbitch as hard and as deep into his eyeball as you possibly can. It doesn't matter if he screams; keep pushing it in. Remember, you'll only get one chance. With luck you might even spark off a full-blown riot.
Of course, if for some reason you have a really sharp object such as a knife, come around from behind and jam it downwards into the lower part of his throat, into the rib cage, filling the trachea with blood. (This is much easier to accomplish than "cutting the throat".)
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Then enjoy your state run program for the next 30 years lol!
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Good call.. better get back to trolling Karen.
Shall we??
MINIONS UNITE!
I think thats kind of inevitable...
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Good call.. better get back to trolling Karen.
Shall we??
MINIONS UNITE!
:rofl:
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If you cause that kind of Grievious injury the cops will be called eventually... even if the program doesn't when Mr. Blinkie goes to the hospital (he will HAVE to) the authorities will find out and come for you.
So, either try to endure a hell of a beating when the cops come (which will probably help to get everone thrown in jail and bust the other kids out...) or if they immediately call the po-pos beat yourself up if they refuse to and capitalize on the situation.
REGARDLESS, you will end up in jail, and then its a matter of using your newfound ability to communicate to get a fucking lawyer A S A P.
Also, I do not condone stabbing someone in the eye, but if you do... 8-)
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If you want to do something violent to get out of the program, stab yourself. At least you aren't fucking up some random kid. I've seen it done, and it does indeed work. Be sure to smear blood on the wall and write out free me with your bloody hand for effect. Yes this did happen, and the kid got sent away.
:o
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Two things Id like to point out....and I I know you mentioned this in the original post, about how it doesnt ALWAYS apply.....but just some thoughts....
When I was in Straight, firstly....it was mostly other clients doing the restraining....staff only got involved after the immediate fact. We had entirely too many kids acting out for only staff to be restraining them, even though they tried several times to insist that only staff participate. My point here is that no specific restraint technique was ever really used....it was more of a tackle and immobilize at any cost scenario. That being said...I agree with the basics of maintaining calm, breathing and working not to get mangled.
Secondly, greivous injury was rarely if ever a solution to the person being restrained. I observed a girl get her nose and arm broken in the same restraint....one that consisted of a male client hurling his body weight over three rows of chairs and landing on top of her. She was given a bandaid for her bleeding nose and an arm sling and sat back in the group an hour later. She never received proper medical treatment, nor were her parents informed. The same is true even if its self inflicted or a product of being an innocent bystander. I was attacked and thrown to the ground with a resulting concussion courtesy of a concrete parking divider and offered no medical attention, my mother was also never told. My point is, hurting yourself could end up being the worst idea if someone doesnt want the outside world knowing youre hurt.
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Two things Id like to point out....and I I know you mentioned this in the original post, about how it doesnt ALWAYS apply.....but just some thoughts....
When I was in Straight, firstly....it was mostly other clients doing the restraining....staff only got involved after the immediate fact. We had entirely too many kids acting out for only staff to be restraining them, even though they tried several times to insist that only staff participate. My point here is that no specific restraint technique was ever really used....it was more of a tackle and immobilize at any cost scenario. That being said...I agree with the basics of maintaining calm, breathing and working not to get mangled.
Secondly, grievous injury was rarely if ever a solution to the person being restrained. I observed a girl get her nose and arm broken in the same restraint....one that consisted of a male client hurling his body weight over three rows of chairs and landing on top of her. She was given a bandaid for her bleeding nose and an arm sling and sat back in the group an hour later. She never received proper medical treatment, nor were her parents informed. The same is true even if its self inflicted or a product of being an innocent bystander. I was attacked and thrown to the ground with a resulting concussion courtesy of a concrete parking divider and offered no medical attention, my mother was also never told. My point is, hurting yourself could end up being the worst idea if someone doesnt want the outside world knowing youre hurt.
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oops
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I don't think any kid has the right to attack another kid. That's one of the most selfish and fucked up ideas I've ever heard. Self defense, of course, but premeditated attack on an innocent kid in your exact same situation? That's just fucked up. You can fight the programs and not stoop to their level, and still maintain your dignity and honor, even though they desperately try and steal it from you. It's all mind games.
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I don't think anyone's suggested attacking another kid as a tactic. Re-read the posts.
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Hurting yourself can also backfire pretty big time. Like, death for instance.
Manipulating/and or faking your way out of hte program is probably a lot easier than a long drawn out violent struggle. But different strokes for different folks!
All these responses here are MILD compared to the rumors that circulate at facilities and the reality of what is going on and being said. I hope parents read these threads and realize teens come up with much more fucked up plans and they actually act on them.
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Like, death for instance.
At a certain point the kid might consider this an acceptable risk.
At another point he might consider it a positive result.
Parents ought to read this indeed. Unintended consequences anyone?
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So true!
Chilling indeed... ::stab:: ::both:: ::kma:: ::rocker:: ::mecry:: :scared: :skull: :cry: ::bandit::
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I think this thread will do more than any 'warning' could to scare the fuck out of anyone considering a program.
I mean, fuck, the fact that we have to have a thread like this shows how FUCKED UP this all is.
Jesus Christ, we're talking nonchalantly about... something that is really, really messed up!!!
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Like, death for instance.
At a certain point the kid might consider this an acceptable risk.
At another point he might consider it a positive result.
Parents ought to read this indeed. Unintended consequences anyone?
Agreed...death can become an acceptable risk. I can vouch for that based on experience...however I was going to give myself the best chances possible. That being NOT accepting death as a viable option underneath a team of 8 knees and elbows.....but accepting it in the form of completely unpredictable escape. I kept my mouth shut and my fingers crossed until I got my first moments alone and walked out into a world where I had nothing and knew no one. Completely at the mercy of the streets with nothing but my clothes and a swiftly deteriorating PB&J as my next and possibly final meal.
I tell you what, parents might have it rough with their kids screwing off at home, but try completely disappearing for a month in an unfamiliar city and see how they like them apples.
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I still can't believe parents use exile as a tool of "tough love". They just assume that with a choice between staying at a facility or oblivion that all kids are going to pick oblivion. The fact so many kids choose to walk out into complete unfamiliarity over what's familiar should be a sign to parents that something is amiss.
But they are too busy self congratulated and reccomending programs to other parents to notice.
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I believe in tough love
At home
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Define tough love.
Coercion and parent VERSUS child? Or simply... BEING A PARENT and making them be responsible for themselves?
The latter is love, not 'tough love'. Coercion is not love and neither is making your child an adversary.
I hate loaded language and semantic bullshit.
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Actually Florida does have its highpoints. Make a trip to Ybor City on a friday night.
Epic Win!
Take a guess at who the developer is for Centro Ybor. G'head. Guess.
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I believe in tough love
At home
Hmm....
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Actually Florida does have its highpoints. Make a trip to Ybor City on a friday night.
Epic Win!
Take a guess at who the developer is for Centro Ybor. G'head. Guess.
Mel Sembler?
Hey do they still have that country bar in Ybor that has that mechanical bull? I pissed off the bull operator about 5 years ago and she sent me for a ride on the bull that nearly resulted with me getting my head planted through the bar.
Yep.
Don't know. Haven't been there since it first opened. My kids went a few times. Said it was pretty lame. One of their friends was attacked about a year ago. The cop taking the report says it happens every weekend.
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It's strange how this is all viewed as somehow healthy. What really angers me sometimes is the whole carefully constructed facade that almost everyone seems to buy, wallets open. I was watching this prison show on MSNBC (weird that they even have these on I think) and they were showing how they were going to pull a prisoner out of his cell because he refused to come out. He was spraying shit all over the walls with his hands, just going apeshit crazy, it was awesome. The guards suit up in their armor and the new thing they do is videotape it. So there is this dude in the back who is videotaping the whole incident, while a group of his crazy friends are dousing the dude with chemical pain and pushing down to the ground with their shields. They hold this guy down screaming with their shields and finally tie him up like a wild animal and pull him out of his cell and do their search or whatever it is they wanted to pull him out for. What caught my attention was how these people thought this was all so normal, and that by videotaping it that made it better or something. I just find it all so laughable, it's like they live in a fucking paralell universe or something.
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On restraints:
Yes if anyone struggles while being restrained, its only going to make it harder on them. The sad thing is the kids who are being restrained dont realize this. At three springs we were instructed to hold them as long as possible, break for about 30 seconds then rerestrain if they exceeded the state allotted time to calm down. Restraints were also not called restraints, but "Containments" because we were "containing" the resident's behavior using physical force. I was taught two methods of restraints, one was the SAMA - Satori something or other that TSW posted and HELP which is SAMA under a different acronym. Neither of these techniques aided or helped children. It only made them more angry when they were restrained.
On the prison thing:
They video tape the entire thing so that noone can go back and accuse the other side of harming them. its all on video then and noone can dispute the video.
My Take:
Screw restraining - Remove all items that someone could use to physically hurt themselves, throw them in a room with nothing on walls or anything to throw, and let them calm down. its called a time out and its relatively effective for tantruming toddlers. What is anger? its a tantrum that a kid who outgrew toddlerhood throws. Of course they're gonna go apeshit. the trick is waiting it out. as long as they arent hurting themselves or others.
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I know why they videotape it they said so on the tv. My point was when they talked about they were completely desensitized to the brutality and horror of what goes on in their everyday job. That is what I found strange. Personally Id rather flip burgers at Mcdonalds. And my point was that I feel society at large does this. They see the underbelly of the beast that keeps these institutions growing and they don't say stop, they want to see it more as entertainment and get desensitized to it so eventually it becomes completely normal and accepted part of reality.
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heh if the kid wont go to the room, make the room come to the kid
you may not be able to escort the kid to a predetermined room but you can sure as hell make the current room he/she is in safe in where he can calm down.
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Please don't restrain me, I give up! :flame:
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You cant just stick them in a room. What if the kid starts banging their head against the wall like the dude in the pic tsw has in his signature? It happens when you put animals in cages too... some of them just dont take well to incarceration. Freedom is the only elixir in this case.
So yeah if a kid keeps hitting his head against the wall like an autistic kid or retarded kid or pissed off kid that happens a lot, then what do they do. :question: :-?
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So yeah if a kid keeps hitting his head against the wall like an autistic kid or retarded kid or pissed off kid that happens a lot, then what do they do. :question: :-?
You put an IRON MASK on them!!!
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lol just caught that movie on TMC.. fucked up shit!
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I didn't know it was on! :exclaim:
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Jesus Christ. Anyone can restrain a kid without cutting off their supply of oxygen. How bout instead of 4 guys laying on the kid, they each take a limb and coach him on breathing through his nose and out his mouth until he calms down. Isn't that what you'd do for a friend who was about to loose it on someone? Then get someone with some damn sense in to talk to the kid and find out what the source of the anger is. If it's shown that staff is baiting the kid, provoking him to anger to justify their little sadistic power trip, then fire his ass on the spot?
Given the number of kids who have died from this 'treatment intervention', it should be outlawed completely. If it were a vitamin or herb the FDA would've pulled in off the market already. Not like there aren't alternatives.... like DE-escalation. Oh lord, that's just too time consuming and respectful of the kid. Sickening
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Jesus Christ. Anyone can restrain a kid without cutting off their supply of oxygen. How bout instead of 4 guys laying on the kid, they each take a limb and coach him on breathing through his nose and out his mouth until he calms down. Isn't that what you'd do for a friend who was about to loose it on someone? Then get someone with some damn sense in to talk to the kid and find out what the source of the anger is.
Perhaps you'd be willing to help demonstrate the proper restraint methods, Deborah? I'll send the Straightmobile? over to pick you up asap! They will escort you here and we'll have the SIBS staff follow your instructions as we bind you hand and foot, etc. Does that sound good to you??
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First, restraints can be done without killing a kid. You apparently conducted hundreds yourself and didn't kill anyone, unless you're holdin out on us.
Second, I advocated outlawing them...and always have. One kid killed by 'rebirthing' and it's outlawed and the 'therapists' jailed. Hundreds killed by restraint, and it's still an acceptable form of 'treatment'. WHY?
Third, Much to many's disappointment, the industry isn't going to be shutdown tomorrow, so the suggestion was what else could be done beside the fucking dogpile approach in the meantime. I think what I suggested was a better option to the current reality.
Fourth, I understand the purpose of this thread, and I have no intention of turning into a how to restrain safely thread.
I'm in a pretty cynical mood tonight. Maybe if/when that Federal Regulation comes through, they'll require a pamphlet of the suggestions on this thread to be passed out to every kid entering a TBS/RTC/EGS/Wilderness, or Ranch, or Home Based, or Religious Fanatic program. Why not chop the root out, instead of prunning? Get a national campaign going to ban restraint in institutions. What do ya think regulators would respond to that? Sorry, consider the question rhetorical.... I don't want to derail the thread.
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Well the police use those tasers now instead of personal combat to take down subjects. How long until we see these in psych hospitals and/or teen programs? They already use chemical restraint in the form of mace and pharmaceuticals.
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Two different times at different psych hospitals I was at, they had autistic kids who were 100%, completely out of touch with reality. At the first facility the kid was like 16, pretty big and would attack the nurses all the time. This one lady got really bad scratches on her face, I felt bad for her! But it happene dall the time and we'd hear these crazy struggles. Screaming, scuffling, shit being knocked over, and eventually they'd get him on the ground and a shot of thorazine in him. Then he'd go to the isolation room in the psych hospital and we wouldnt see him for a couple days. Then he'd be out, and it would happen again. I mean I don't know wtf you do with a kid like that, but it seemed like a weird place for him to end up. I can't imagine what he thought was going on from his perspective...
At the second place they seemed even less prepared. The kid was also autistic or retarded or something, just out of touch with reality completely. Their isolation room was under construction when this kid got brought in, and so he was always trying to break it down. All day long we'd hear these bangs and there'd be splinters int he hallway, and he'd hurt himself on the splinters since the room had open wood beams because of the remodeling. So eventually they had to tie him down to a chair. They didnt even have a real bed or straps or anything. So they just tied him down to this chair, sitting upright. And he would just sit there screaming and we would try not to look in the small window when walking by just out of pure horror. Again, I am not expert on retards or autistics, but it seemed like a waste of life to me, and its just got to make shit worse in their own heads.
I always felt like I was treated "fair" enough at psych hospitals, at least relative to private program I was at, but some kids really got the short end of the stick. They have nowhere else to go and end up caged like an animal being watched over by people who fear them. Theres got to be something better.
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One kid killed by 'rebirthing' and it's outlawed and the 'therapists' jailed.
Because there, the fetishism was obvious.
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It was reported that some of the escorts use them. Not sure they'll fly in the "parent choice prison industry", too much negative media regarding deaths.
Now there is a program in NY that is using shock (aversive) treatment. Something was posted on that a couple of days ago.
Do we have any long term studies on this lovely? Will the kid have to wear the shock collar for the rest of his life? Who will push the shock button? Is it effective long-term?
Didn't work on my friend's dog. Never breaks the rules when they're home. But I've caught him several times eating food off the counter when he thought everyone was gone. Boy was he shocked to see me!!! Ran and hid under the bed.
That's precisely what BM teaches, how to be even sneakier. Animals/People will have what they want. It's the survival mechanism.
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Now there is a program in NY that is using shock (aversive) treatment.
They've been open for two decades. The real move to eliminate them has been started only recently. I'm curious just who's behind the recent government attacks on the place... ("Sadman"? You reading this?)
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Now there is a program in NY that is using shock (aversive) treatment.
They've been open for two decades. The real move to eliminate them has been started only recently. I'm curious just who's behind the recent government attacks on the place... ("Sadman"? You reading this?)
Parents started to complain about it when they found out about it. A parent reported it to the press. It became news. Politicians respond to publicity.
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One kid killed by 'rebirthing'
tasers ... in psych hospitals and/or teen programs
Will the kid have to wear the shock collar for the rest of his life? Who will push the shock button?
Are you fuckheads trying to summon me?
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A parent reported it to the press. It became news.
One wonders, then, why this never happened before. They've been doing this since their inception. In fact if you read their website (they actually changed it about six months ago- it had a lot more stuff on it before) they pretty much talk exclusively about what they do.
So it's kind of hard to believe that a parent suddenly went "Oh my God! They were doing this to my kid?" Well, YEAH, I mean they only ADVERTISED it!
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Restraint of any kind puts children at risk.
How about tying them up in a blanket so tightly they suffocate to death?
That's what happened to this 4-year-old boy. After he hopped out of bed one too many times and roamed around the house.
Turns out his adoptive mother had bought some books on "training up kids" from Michael and Debi Pearl (No Greater Joy Ministries) and had been beating the boy and his siblings with the recommended instrument of choice, plumbing supply pipe.
Sickening case all the way around. Mother will probably plead ignorance and get off with a slap on the ole' wrist though it seems pretty damn clear she had other options than beating her kids into compliance and in the youngest child's case, restraining him in a blanket to keep him from getting out of bed.
There's more to this tragic story though. The boy and his siblings had all been placed in foster care and then given up for adoption to the Paddocks. What could have been their saving grace soon became a daily regimen of obedience training by way of a book that many say reads like a child abuse manual.
:flame:
http://[url=http://teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html]http://teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html[/url]
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A parent reported it to the press. It became news.
One wonders, then, why this never happened before. They've been doing this since their inception. In fact if you read their website (they actually changed it about six months ago- it had a lot more stuff on it before) they pretty much talk exclusively about what they do.
So it's kind of hard to believe that a parent suddenly went "Oh my God! They were doing this to my kid?" Well, YEAH, I mean they only ADVERTISED it!
The first stories I saw about this shock stuff were many months ago. It's not a just breaking story.
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderso ... -kids.html (http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/2006/03/shock-therapy-for-kids.html)
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http://http://teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html
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Check out this programmed parent:
As a last resort for problem students, it absolutely should be used. Traditional schooling just cannot work for some severe behavioral cases. I realize that it sounds horrible, but in all honesty, this has a proven case history behind it- shock collars for dogs. The human animal isn't that far different.
Why -shouldn't- it be used? I cannot think of a single reason. For these kids, this is a last resort. If they aren't rehabilitated by whatever means necessary, society will be forced to deal with them later- when the problem is far too set it. Take care of the problem, however you can, while they are young. Fix the problem now, before these kids are out of control 20 year olds, or 30 year olds, committing real crimes.
Behavior modification is a positive thing, not a negative one.
Posted By Helen E., New York, NY : 10:12 PM ET
Emphasis mine. Here we have a classic case of backwards logic. Why shouldn't we, instead of the correct why should we question. She equates kids with dogs.
It 'sounds horrible,' because it is.
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Reputable dog trainers don't use shock collars. So even if they want to believe in the analogy that kids are like dogs, they should realize they are seeking the advice of debunked dog behavioralists.
Have you ever noticed it's the same kind of families that have neurotic dogs that have "troubled teens"?
Why -shouldn't- it be used? I cannot think of a single reason.
I think this would be best desribed as a complete and utter lack of empathy.
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How about tying them up in a blanket so tightly they suffocate to death?
Jesus.
I have finally heard of a real-life action sicker than killing seven-year-old girls for gargling milk.
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Something I have noticed is if someone pushes me so far I wig out and start yelling and breaking things if they SHUT THE FUCK UP? and LEAVE ME ALONE© I calm down really, really fast!
Why? Because I wouldn't BE so mad if you werent in my face pushing my buttons.
Restraints are set up much more often than they are there to 'control someone who is out of control'. They are pushed in to them, either directly or by living in a shitty environment that just builds and builds up the pressure until they need to get away from it so bad they can't control themselves anymore.
So, uh, I think 9/10 restraints would be un-necessary if they weren't in a program to begin with, and if they weren't being pushed to the edge by people in the program while in it. At least in my opinion.
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Reputable dog trainers don't use shock collars. So even if they want to believe in the analogy that kids are like dogs, they should realize they are seeking the advice of debunked dog behavioralists.
Have you ever noticed it's the same kind of families that have neurotic dogs that have "troubled teens"?
Why -shouldn't- it be used? I cannot think of a single reason.
I think this would be best desribed as a complete and utter lack of empathy.
Nihilanthic & myself would probably both use shock-collars recreationally. :lol:
But again, there's a BIG difference between consensual use for a bit of fun, and out-&-out abuse in a drug treatment facility! Doing something like that to someone can be extremely damaging psychologically, despite even what some psychologists may tell you!!!!
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If someone wants to feel helpless, then, uh, its not a bad thing.
If someone does not (most people in most cases, even people who do in some cases in most cases do not...) and you force that on them its very stressful and then quickly very traumatic. It is VERY abusive!
Another thing is setting. A game where someone can say "enough!" with trust and a desire to have fun, versus an institution where you have no rights, no ability to say STOP, and the whole point is to make you break, well, yeah.
I'm frankly just amazed why people don't ever think about what it would be like to go through it themselves? BAM - perfect litmus test.
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twiddling thumbs
widdling wood
dont be doing
things ya should
prick it goes
no resign
gravity overtakes
quick design
fitting will
true intent
hidden down
dark n spent
hurt me now
no matter much
all i ask
please dont touch
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Here's a suggestion I made a while back.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=119907#119907 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=119907#119907)
Program has to read the kid their "Restraint Rights".
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Something I have noticed is if someone pushes me so far I wig out and start yelling and breaking things if they SHUT THE FUCK UP? and LEAVE ME ALONE© I calm down really, really fast!
Why? Because I wouldn't BE so mad if you werent in my face pushing my buttons.
Restraints are set up much more often than they are there to 'control someone who is out of control'. They are pushed in to them, either directly or by living in a shitty environment that just builds and builds up the pressure until they need to get away from it so bad they can't control themselves anymore.
So, uh, I think 9/10 restraints would be un-necessary if they weren't in a program to begin with, and if they weren't being pushed to the edge by people in the program while in it. At least in my opinion.
I agree with this...on restraints being more or less instigated. Thats how it was in my program. In fact it was the general rule. More kids were pinned in their chairs in attempt to make them sit properly....than they were pinned to the floor for trying to run. Of course the chair pinning almost always lead to a floor restraint after several hours.
"Fix em while their young" she says? Oh yeah, that'll fix em alright....fix em right and proper. Just you wait and see the monster that sort of treatment creates.
What a sick world we live in these days where a kid has to be "rehabilitated" from being a normal kid.
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Something I have noticed is if someone pushes me so far I wig out and start yelling and breaking things if they SHUT THE FUCK UP? and LEAVE ME ALONE© I calm down really, really fast!
Why? Because I wouldn't BE so mad if you werent in my face pushing my buttons.
Restraints are set up much more often than they are there to 'control someone who is out of control'. They are pushed in to them, either directly or by living in a shitty environment that just builds and builds up the pressure until they need to get away from it so bad they can't control themselves anymore.
So, uh, I think 9/10 restraints would be un-necessary if they weren't in a program to begin with, and if they weren't being pushed to the edge by people in the program while in it. At least in my opinion.
I agree with this...on restraints being more or less instigated. Thats how it was in my program. In fact it was the general rule. More kids were pinned in their chairs in attempt to make them sit properly....than they were pinned to the floor for trying to run. Of course the chair pinning almost always lead to a floor restraint after several hours.
"Fix em while their young" she says? Oh yeah, that'll fix em alright....fix em right and proper. Just you wait and see the monster that sort of treatment creates.
What a sick world we live in these days where a kid has to be "rehabilitated" from being a normal kid.
Yep. I remember the days of people jamming their knuckles into your back b/c you weren't sitting up straight enough. Or kicking your feet out from under your chair if they weren't flat on the floor. Forced motivation (furiously flapping your arms about in an attempt to be 'noticed' when vieing for the 'opportunity to share' in a rap) when people would grab your arms and start flailing them around. If you even thought about objecting or reacting to this in any way, including just giving someone a dirty look, you were flat on the floor with 4 or 5 people sitting on you for hours on end while still being 'confronted' and screamed at for 'taking time away from the group'. Thankfully never happened to me, I was too scared to do anything 'wrong' after watching a couple of kids go through that. And everyone's reaction to it!! Staff screaming at people to keep their eyes 'face front'. The whole group being expected to ignore the horror that was unfolding and continue on with the rap. Sick doesn't even begin to describe it.
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But Straight was great.! :D