Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:16:36 AM

Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:16:36 AM
Hee Hee.. Ho Ho.. Oh my...  :rofl:

who's gunna own up to being a karen-lubber? I wouldnt if I were em!  :P
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:18:14 AM
:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:19:22 AM
through an anonymous leak I obtained one of the PMs in question: breaking news people!

Karen,
I am so sorry for the behaviour of TSW. He means well, he really does. The problem is that he is an alcoholic. He is out of the country and this prevents an intervention. Please stay around and aprove of me. I love you karen.
Fornitscator


What a sad day for fornits.  ::noway::
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 07, 2007, 12:20:32 AM
I'm not sure what kind of Karen "love" anyone would want to admit to here on fornits  :rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:23:42 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
I'm not sure what kind of Karen "love" anyone would want to admit to here on fornits  :rofl:

I admit to wanting to see her ass whipped HARD with a terse switch!  :o

It would be beautiful!  8-)
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 07, 2007, 12:24:32 AM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
I think I will get a hamster and name it Karen. This way I can put him in a cage with a running track. Watch that little fucker run in a circle all god damn day. Every now and then hoist a beer and say, "To those who are about to die I salute you!" and then set the fucker on fire with lighter fluid and watch him run around my living room floor.


BE sure to videotape that shit and post it up on Youtube. Piss of some PETA freaks while your at it.. two birds, one stone.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 07, 2007, 12:29:04 AM
Quote
Yeah- thanks for the chance.
You think you OWNED me? Perhaps you should read the 12 PMs I received (most from regular fornits posters) apologizing for your behavior and saying how disgusted they were with your attitude and behavior. Even saying that you were clearly drunk when you posted.
If you read my posts instead of simply trying to humiliate me, you would have noticed that I was changing my mind about Carlbook as I learned more about the workshops and the therapy groups.
Does insulting me and my family help your cause? I took a chance by trying to share information on the thread, and all you did was attack me and try to bring the attention back to yourself. I was told that is what it is all about with you- making sure you are the center of attention.
I stopped posting on the thread because your posts were hurtful and degrading. I really have no need to subject myself to that.
My purpose isn't to promote Carlbrook and 2N. Right now I am trying to convince someone to take their kid out of HLA. I think from what I have learned, the Carlbrook program has a strong potential for abuse- emotionally, not physically. I have not yet seen anything to show me 2N uses the same techniques or is anything like that. My son, who spent a total of 16 weeks at sN, tells me it is not at all the same. My mind is open, but I have talked to a lot more people with 2N experience than you have, and so far I think it is a good program.
Keep thinking you are amusing everyone and keep thinking you "owned" me. Not quite.
Karen
View user's profile



Cant forget this baby...  :P
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 07, 2007, 12:35:46 AM
Quote
My mind is open, but I have talked to a lot more people with 2N experience than you have, and so far I think it is a good program.


We have our another Sou Chef right here!

Sue is to WWASP as Karen is to Carlbrook.

GIve em credibility by bashing one program, and swoop in with another. SLick, very click! (common sales tactic though)
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:43:49 AM
Wow, and people say I'm mean. (I'm not used to not being the meanest. I feel emasculated. I'll have to redouble my efforts at being nasty.)

C'mon Psy, you knew this was gonna happen. Program parents coming to Fornits will get mauled. It's like death and taxes.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:49:03 AM
I see a poem starting to form:

Forget Karen
her ass
hit bricks.

Saggy tits
posting on
Fornits.

Drink one
drink many
send a kid away.

Smell of fish
just wont
go away.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 02:33:19 AM
So Karen whoa re these forints regulars that are supposeduly hating on TSW and lubbin what you have to say? I think she is full of shit to be honest. I bet she got like 1 pm and it didnt even say that!!
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 02:35:12 AM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penalty""
Wow, and people say I'm mean. (I'm not used to not being the meanest. I feel emasculated. I'll have to redouble my efforts at being nasty.)

C'mon Psy, you knew this was gonna happen. Program parents coming to Fornits will get mauled. It's like death and taxes.


This is how i thought it was going to play out, but I was willing to take the chance, given that some positive dialogue might come out of it.

It's the principle of the thing....

If you think you've made an ass out of Karen with your posts...  you need to think more like a jury...

Who do you think came out of this looking like the more mature one?  The more sane one?  It depends on your perspective i suppose...

However, for once, Karen did behave herself on Fornits...  And she got largely blasted for it.  Regardless of her past, which she apologized for both in private and in public, what message is this sending to other program parents who might consider coming to fornits for our side of the story?  What do you think she is going to say now about fornits?  On ST?  Where the program parents are...  

Instead of alienating people we should be building alliances, turning heads, changing minds...  Convincing parents to yoink their kids out...  What good has this done?

Provide a hostile atmosphere and you will drive the parents right into Lon Woodbury's grateful arms.  He should cut some people here a check.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 02:39:03 AM
Quote
what message is this sending to other program parents who might consider coming to fornits for our side of the story?


Don't try and sell your wilderness programs on fornits and if you do expect to get shit!!! This should be obvious! Just like many WWASPS kids fell for Sou's BS you are falling for Karens.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 02:46:02 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
So Karen whoa re these forints regulars that are supposeduly hating on TSW and lubbin what you have to say? I think she is full of shit to be honest. I bet she got like 1 pm and it didnt even say that!!


She actually got quite a few (and i heard this not from her, but from actual people who PMed her).  No i will not post them here.

again... what matters in terms of tempting program parents into coming to Fornits is not Karen's past (which the don't know), but the perception of her treatment here.  Remember, the public at large have short memories and rarely research things past the surface.  You want to show program parents the truth?  You just scared off poor-little-old-Karen, who now has even more ammo with which to say "the folks on fornits hate parents... stay away"...

There is an unfortunate aspect of politics to everything in this world.  Who won the publicity battle here?

There are more parents on fornits than you think, but a lot of them are too afraid to post.  Yes parents are fragile. They haven't been conditioned to ignore constant attacks a-la "raps".

Yes some of these parents are fucked up, and if you don't want the kids to wind up that way you have to (guess what) talk to fucked up parents, convincing them not to make a terrible decision.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 03:01:22 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
what message is this sending to other program parents who might consider coming to fornits for our side of the story?

Don't try and sell your wilderness programs on fornits and if you do expect to get shit!!! This should be obvious! Just like many WWASPS kids fell for Sou's BS you are falling for Karens.


If i remember correctly, i had to ask which Wilderness program her kid went to.

If i remember correctly, the topic of the thread was Carlbrook but people kept changing the subject to 2N.

I was personally fooled by Sue, so i have no love for her, however Karen is a different situation.

What if her kid did improve / wasn't harmed in wilderness?  Her kid was an athelete and could probably deal with a lot more physical punishment than the staff themselves.  I believe her kid told her he wasn't harmed by wilderness (why wouldn't he, he told her he hated CB)...  What if she's giving her honest opinion?  I haven't recieved any information tying her to the wilderness program financially, and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 04:14:25 AM
Quote
Who won the publicity battle here?


Say what you believe, not what you think other people need to hear.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 04:15:52 AM
Quote
What if she's giving her honest opinion?


Many program parents honestly believe in their program, doesn't make them right. For all I know my parent is out on a message board typing away at how great my stay at a program was too, doesn't make it true.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 04:18:54 AM
Quote
She actually got quite a few (and i heard this not from her, but from actual people who PMed her)


Well since you all think Karens wilderness program is so great, and reccomend it to parents en masse, be prepared to live with the consequences of that decision. When a kid dies in some march, and the parent comes back here and asks why you said it was safe what will you answer? Can't you see the hypocrisy in giving out advice to parents on where to send their children?
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 07, 2007, 04:20:20 AM
Can't you see how stupid it is to ask for advice from a parent who needed help to deal with her kid?  :roll:

HELLOOOOOOO?

This is like asking advice on finding mechanics from someone who can't mantain their car.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 04:25:50 AM
Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 05:01:25 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
She actually got quite a few (and i heard this not from her, but from actual people who PMed her)

Well since you all think Karens wilderness program is so great, and reccomend it to parents en masse, be prepared to live with the consequences of that decision. When a kid dies in some march, and the parent comes back here and asks why you said it was safe what will you answer? Can't you see the hypocrisy in giving out advice to parents on where to send their children?


You are completely missing my point.  I hate all programs, i think they should be shut down! all of them.  period.  no exceptions.  however, the trick is to convince parents of that and you aren't going to do that by insulting them.

I do not think 2N is a good program and i wouldn't contribute towards sending anybody there.  I don't think Karen is arguing anymore that 2n is a good program for any kid.  She just said it appeared to work for her kid.  I don't think so personally, but my opinion does not fucking matter  or yours, or anybody here, unless that opinion influences sombody in a position to do something about it.

So good luck talking to her about 2N now.  She was listening about Carlbrook and now her opinion has changed.  If TSW (yes you fuckhead) hadn't jumped down her throat we might have been able to talk her out of her support for 2n as well.

Where do most parents get recommendations for programs besides the ed-cons?  OTHER PARENTS!!!!!!!  and unlike ed-cons, most parents do so out of ignorance rather than greed.  You fight ignorance with knowledge, facts, debate NOT INSULTS!.

If you want to cut a major program "supplier" off, you need to reach former parents, still stuck in their fantasy world of "oh gee, they saved my kid's life."

but heaven forbid we bite our tongues in order to do so... focusing on a goal for more than than 15 seconds away.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 05:03:01 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.


What good is the truth if nobody will listen to it?
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 05:06:41 AM
You go ahead and bite your tongue when a program parent comes here and starts singing the praises of a debunked program if you want, but to expect everyone else to do so... guess you haven't been around fornits long enough yet.

Quote
If TSW (yes you fuckhead) hadn't jumped down her throat we might have been able to talk her out of her support for 2n as well.


Talk her out of support? This is several years later since her kid got out, I don't think that's going to change. And ask if she regrets Carlbrook and wouldn't do it again if repeating history. Shes got you good.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 05:08:41 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.

What good is the truth if nobody will listen to it?


Karen is ONE person. One person. And also the last and least relevant person to this discussion. Her kids are grown. She sent them to programs and would do it again. And reccommends programs to other parents, as seen on multiple message boards. (god only knows what she suggests in pms)
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 05:09:32 AM
Quote
She just said it appeared to work for her kid.


So do my parents. And nothing could be further from the truth.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 05:14:49 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.

What good is the truth if nobody will listen to it?

Karen is ONE person. One person. And also the last and least relevant person to this discussion. Her kids are grown. She sent them to programs and would do it again. And reccommends programs to other parents, as seen on multiple message boards. (god only knows what she suggests in pms)


She used to recommend Carlbrook.  She does not anymore.

Her vocal nature with other parents, and her ST support make her relevant.

If she is truly malicious, and does not care about kids(in which case she cannot be turned), I am waisting my time.  However, I don't know her well enough to make that judgment and I do not listen to rumors, heresay, and he-said-she-said bullshit.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 05:16:48 AM
Quote
If you want to cut a major program "supplier" off, I want you to reach former parents, still stuck in their fantasy world of "oh gee, they saved my kid's life."


Karen still inhabitates that world willingly and isn't coming out. Karen has never changed her tune. She has always been critical of Carlbrook and other programs. Nobody is changing her mind here. Go read her old posts and you will see that they are exactly the same. The truth is plain to see. This website is filled with accounts of horrific abuse at programs. She, like other people who post here with pro-program agendas, use those tales of abuse to make their programs look better than the shit that's already out there. That disgusts me.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 05:17:47 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
She just said it appeared to work for her kid.

So do my parents. And nothing could be further from the truth.


So talk to your parents until you convince them otherwise (i did with my dad).  Mom's in progress.

Make them pissed off at your treatment.  All you have to do is tell the truth and back your story up evidence (other people's testimony, books, research).

Imagine a million pissed off parents with disposable income...
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 05:19:40 AM
Quote
She used to recommend Carlbrook. She does not anymore.


For the same reason Sou stopped reccomending WWASPS programs. To gain credibility. The ploy worked, obviously.

How would you feel if I thought Benchmark was a lighter version of the program I was at, and dismissed all claims of abuse. Say I was at TB and forced to lay on my face for weeks, does that give me the right to reccomend other programs that aren't as bad based on my experience?

That's what she is doing with the wilderness program she loves so dearly.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 05:22:15 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
She just said it appeared to work for her kid.

So do my parents. And nothing could be further from the truth.

So talk to your parents until you convince them otherwise (i did with my dad).  Mom's in progress.

Make them pissed off at your treatment.  All you have to do is tell the truth and back your story up evidence (other people's testimony, books, research).

Imagine a million pissed off parents with disposable income...


I explained to them what was going on in real-time through letters. So anything now is just a farce, we all know it so there's no point really. My only point with this post is not every parent is ignorant and loving, some get exactly what they pay for and still think its a great idea. I don't put Karen in that same category, I just think she's really slick at sneaking in a pro program agenda under guise of being critical of Carlbrook.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 05:24:52 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
If you want to cut a major program "supplier" off, I want you to reach former parents, still stuck in their fantasy world of "oh gee, they saved my kid's life."

Karen still inhabitates that world willingly and isn't coming out. Karen has never changed her tune. She has always been critical of Carlbrook and other programs. Nobody is changing her mind here. Go read her old posts and you will see that they are exactly the same. The truth is plain to see. This website is filled with accounts of horrific abuse at programs. She, like other people who post here with pro-program agendas, use those tales of abuse to make their programs look better than the shit that's already out there. That disgusts me.


It disgusts me too.  However, What is Karen's agenda?  Do you have any evidence?  Some people are decent inside?  Do I believe she is?  Perhaps.

People beyond redemption: TTI ed-cons, program staff, natsap members.  as far as i'm concerned they should all be hanged like Saddam.  and that isn't a joke.  the whole program mentality is cancerous.  Whenever one school shuts down, the staff scatter, starting their own little hellholes.  hang them all and end it.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 05:26:42 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
She just said it appeared to work for her kid.

So do my parents. And nothing could be further from the truth.

So talk to your parents until you convince them otherwise (i did with my dad).  Mom's in progress.

Make them pissed off at your treatment.  All you have to do is tell the truth and back your story up evidence (other people's testimony, books, research).

Imagine a million pissed off parents with disposable income...

I explained to them what was going on in real-time through letters. So anything now is just a farce, we all know it so there's no point really. My only point with this post is not every parent is ignorant and loving, some get exactly what they pay for and still think its a great idea. I don't put Karen in that same category, I just think she's really slick at sneaking in a pro program agenda under guise of being critical of Carlbrook.


Letters in program?  or outside?
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 05:31:01 AM
Quote
It disgusts me too. However, What is Karen's agenda? Do you have any evidence? Some people are decent inside? Do I believe she is? Perhaps.

People beyond redemption: TTI ed-cons, program staff, natsap members. as far as i'm concerned they should all be hanged like Saddam. and that isn't a joke. the whole program mentality is cancerous. Whenever one school shuts down, the staff scatter, starting their own little hellholes. hang them all and end it.

I believe her agenda to include reccomending SNWP to program parents who post here. If her posts are not scrutinized, she will seem more credible so I agree with those who question her vigirously. I don't think it's about decency, she could be a really cool person, but that doesn't mean she can't hold a fundamentally flawed belief. I have christian friends who think fags are teh debil and should be reprogrammed too, but there really is no middle ground with them as far as I am concerned. They are wrong, and their theory holds no justifiable recourse in my view. As far as redemption, I still don't know how you convince someone who honestly believes they are saving lives, that they are in fact doing the opposite. It just doens't compute with them.

Quote

Letters in program? or outside?


Both.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 05:34:36 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
She used to recommend Carlbrook. She does not anymore.

For the same reason Sou stopped reccomending WWASPS programs. To gain credibility. The ploy worked, obviously.

How would you feel if I thought Benchmark was a lighter version of the program I was at, and dismissed all claims of abuse.

I would feel sorry for you.  I would roll my eyes since i've heard it all before.  Talk to the average shmoe on the subway about this and hear their reaction.  Nobody believes the industry exists at all.

What other people feel doesn't really matter to me unless they are in a position of influence.  Parents are in a position of influence.  When a program parent hears you were in a program they immediately go "aha.  just as manipulative as my son".  When a parent says the same thing it's "oh my god!".  Not always, but the chances are better.

Quote
Say I was at TB and forced to lay on my face for weeks, does that give me the right to reccomend other programs that aren't as bad based on my experience?

That's what she is doing with the wilderness program she loves so dearly.


She is going to recommend the place, here, or elsewhere, until somebody convinces her otherwise.  Is it hopeless?  possably (i'm guessing she does it out of ignorance and misguided good-will).  Is it pointless to try? no.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 07, 2007, 05:37:32 AM
Wishful thinking and attempting to win the ARGUEMENT by appealing to a middle ground, you mean?
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 05:40:37 AM
Quote
She is going to recommend the place, here, or elsewhere, until somebody convinces her otherwise.

This is a corporate lawyer making six figures, she's smart enough to figure it out on her own. She HAS it all figured out, she has reached her conclusions, and I happen to disagree with them.



Quote
Is it hopeless? possably (i'm guessing she does it out of ignorance and misguided good-will). Is it pointless to try? no.


I am not saying you should stop. All the power to you, good luck sincerely. I am just saying I don't agree, I see something else happening which is an acceptance of "lighter" programs by an increasing number of people. This is the agenda of ST. They are anti-wwasp and anti abusive programs, and then sell you other programs. Its no different. I know I would never feel comfortable telling a parent what to do with their kid, even though they ask all the time I just don't answer. Who am I to know and why are they asking a complete stranger?  :-?
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 05:44:29 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
It disgusts me too. However, What is Karen's agenda? Do you have any evidence? Some people are decent inside? Do I believe she is? Perhaps.

People beyond redemption: TTI ed-cons, program staff, natsap members. as far as i'm concerned they should all be hanged like Saddam. and that isn't a joke. the whole program mentality is cancerous. Whenever one school shuts down, the staff scatter, starting their own little hellholes. hang them all and end it.

I believe her agenda to include reccomending SNWP to program parents who post here. If her posts are not scrutinized, she will seem more credible so I agree with those who question her vigirously. I don't think it's about decency, she could be a really cool person, but that doesn't mean she can't hold a fundamentally flawed belief. I have christian friends who think fags are teh debil and should be reprogrammed too, but there really is no middle ground with them as far as I am concerned. They are wrong, and their theory holds no justifiable recourse in my view. As far as redemption, I still don't know how you convince someone who honestly believes they are saving lives, that they are in fact doing the opposite. It just doens't compute with them.

Quote

Letters in program? or outside?

Both.


It's possible to deprogram anybody by providing facts that solidly disprove their beliefs.

There are exceptions.  If the result of the information would produce too much guilt, the mind protects itself against the knowledge with denial (common problem with deprogramming parents).

That "roadblock" in their deprogramming is the biggest pain in the ass with some parents.  It would kill them to know so their mind protects them.

Still.  Even then, repeated exposure to reality, the facts.  Keep at it and eventually you can force them out of it (if you want to push things).

Alternatively, it the parents do not present a danger (by recommending programs left right and centre), you can just let them be in their little fantasy worlds.

If it's important to you that your parents know the truth, don't stop until they do (just don't push them too hard or they might "lock up"... if they do that, good luck finding the reset button).
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 05:48:57 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Wishful thinking and attempting to win the ARGUEMENT by appealing to a middle ground, you mean?


Incorrect assumption about my strategy.  pm/im me if you want my "legal strategy"
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 05:49:50 AM
Keeping my parents out of my life is probably the one thing keeping my sane at this point. As fucked up as I can be, they are even more childish and petty than I am and surprise when I left at 18 things got that much easier. But I know exactly what you mean about the general society person you tell about these things, most common response i've heard, "they wouldn't let something like that happen in america."  :roll:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 07, 2007, 05:50:45 AM
The problem with all of what Karen is doing is that its based upon trying to support a forgone conclusion, specifically that there is a "good program", which is like a "polishable turd" (fossilized turds not withstanding..) and that 2N did so help and was not abusive.

TSW has broken everything down to the nth degree, more than once. We have pointed out her arguementative fallacies and the fact that she wants to win the arguement, not actually get to the crux of the problem - quackery, forced 'treatment' that is not, coersion, what adds up to brainwashing, and that all roads lead back to Erhard/Syannon/CEDU/Lifespring... more than once.

When specifics finally come out, we debunk them, and this has been done more than once.

All she does is come back around and try the same thing with a different nuance again and then try to find some kind of 'middle ground' that is nonexistant.

Are we doing good? Damn straight! She keeps trying, we keep shooting it down... shes throwing clay pigeons out and we're shooting them down with varying levels of civility, but no matter how frustrated or vitriolic we get, the truth is the truth, regardless of how it is presented.

Anyone willing to soak in the information, think, and reason will most likely have nothing to do with the industry. People who NEED a easy answer for their own sake will either just do it, or try to find a "less abusive" program, or try to find the magical "good program" even though it's utter nonsense to even suggest.

At any rate, we are helping a lot of people, and just adding to the depth of what we're trying to do and even more proof about what is really going on with both the programs and the apologists. Imagine what the archives of fornits will turn out to be to some anthropologists or historians in the future when these programs finally get exposed and our great great great grandchildren are alive?

We ain't gonna ditch it before the current generation has out-aged "programming" years unless the government finally steps in, but the next one could be spared if we manage to organize and spread awareness. So, I guess at least in a minor way, we are doing good.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 07, 2007, 05:51:24 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Wishful thinking and attempting to win the ARGUEMENT by appealing to a middle ground, you mean?

Incorrect assumption about my strategy.  pm/im me if you want my "legal strategy"
]

No, what KAREN is doing, silly.

I should have directed it or contexualized, sorry.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: psy on January 07, 2007, 06:21:19 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Keeping my parents out of my life is probably the one thing keeping my sane at this point. As fucked up as I can be, they are even more childish and petty than I am and surprise when I left at 18 things got that much easier. But I know exactly what you mean about the general society person you tell about these things, most common response i've heard, "they wouldn't let something like that happen in america."  :roll:


Yeah I love that one.  Yeah...  same shit 70 years ago in Germany.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 07, 2007, 10:26:57 AM
If Karen is truly starting to see problems with Carlbrook, why doesn't she post that?  I can't stand it when people attack program parents right out of the gate but Karen is a completely different story.  She's been here on and off for a couple of years promoting programs and being just as insulting, if not more, than some of our more 'colorful' members here.  She seemed to be able to take the heat long enough to post pro-program shit, why can't she take it now and post her doubts or whatever it is she's starting to realize?

I've yelled at people for attacking some of the parents, but like I said...Karen is a completely different animal.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 10:57:45 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I see a poem starting to form:

Forget Karen
her ass
hit bricks.

Saggy tits
posting on
Fornits.

Drink one
drink [too?] many
send a kid away.

Smell of fish
just wont
go away.

 :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:15:31 AM
Without sifting through all the threads, I do recall she posted several times she was changing her mind about Carlbrook. Psy confirmed that.
She wrote to TSW, "I think from what I have learned, the Carlbrook program has a strong potential for abuse- emotionally, not physically."
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:16:01 AM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Programs are not acceptable.

Care that is not volunatry is not acceptable.

Care that involves isolation is not acceptable.

Care involving stage systems is not acceptable.

Care that does not allow you to leave at anytime you choose is not acceptable.

 :nworthy:  :tup:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:23:16 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.

What good is the truth if nobody will listen to it?

And what good is trying to shove it down someone's throat?
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:24:36 AM
Charly wrote:
Thanks, Deborah. I guess I thought the Carlbrook program was a lot different. It appears as though it is not. I think they softened it up a little, but the CEDU elements are there. I can see how it could affect a younger kid more severely than an older one- especially an emotionally hardened kid like my son. Perhaps his very flaws served him well. I really do feel that 2N built on my son's strengths and leadership abilities, just as I can see how these things were negatives at Carlbrook. I got mixed messages though (from C-brook). I think one of the heads could really relate to my son- saw a lot of himself in him. Enough to know that strength/resistance could throw a monkey wrench into things. They liked for things to go smoothly, and that wasn't what my son tended to bring to a community."
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Dr Fucktard on January 07, 2007, 11:26:41 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Imagine a million pissed off parents with disposable income...

Yeah.... Imagine..  ::hehehmm::  :rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 07, 2007, 11:29:05 AM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Without sifting through all the threads, I do recall she posted several times she was changing her mind about Carlbrook. Psy confirmed that.
She wrote to TSW, "I think from what I have learned, the Carlbrook program has a strong potential for abuse- emotionally, not physically."

No one is denying her making those statements. It is her cheesy attempt at a middle ground arguement on her part. Had she not been spouting her support for Second Nature every chance she had I probably would have heckled her once or twice for old times sake and forgot about her.

The issue is she is lying, again, and claiming that I was all mean and malicious to her. This is her weak excuse for leaving. Then a bunch of lamers came and apologized for me dropping a fat load of reality on her head about her precisious Second Nature.



Come on people.. Karen in Dallas has a thin skin???


Haven't we all seen the shit she has dished out on people? The way she treats people who don't toe the party line over on Struggling Turds? Her many attempts to troll and instigate trouble here on fornits?

For the love of christ! What I was saying to her was tame. She only left after her little pet poonjab program got shown to be a fraud. Suddenly she had no middle ground to hide in. Her only choice would have been for her to conceed that Second nature is a turd heap and eat some crow.

She didn't. She made up some crap about what a meanie I am and ran away sniveling. Sadly some ding bats supported her on this foolish lame assed notion. When they should have further condemned her for supporting any program.

We aren't here to sell programs. We are here to shut them all the fuck down.

Karen Austin is a college educated woman. She by now should have the intellectual reasoning skills to formulate opinions on her own. Karen Austin needs no breast feeding to get her to see the light. What we have is a clever ploy on her part to either pull another fast one, or to gain a big dramatic moment to oppose programs.

Well fuck that. I am not here to be bothered with someone's lame assed attention seeking. I am here to crush programs.


I would just like to remark my shit to her about trying to guilt her regarding what her son went through was a hell of a lot more vicious than what TSW did with his relatively childish insultings.

What puzzles me is I stepped past every line I believe in, felt guilty about it even, but that hurt her less than TSW's flaming bag of "truth".

 :roll:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 07, 2007, 11:29:10 AM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
I take that Anne Bonney wasn't one of these 12 lamers that apologized for me unloading a truck load of reality on Karen.


That would be a correct assumption.  I did not.

And again...she didn't have a problem taking heat when she was posting all the pro-Carlbrook shit, why is it such a problem now?  She has played this game of hers for a looong time and she's often been as bad or worse than some of the "meanies" here.  

Quit being such a crybaby Karen.  You fucked up in shipping your kid off.......twice.  Start talking about that and maybe you wouldn't get slammed so much.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:30:17 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
I believe her agenda to include reccomending SNWP to program parents who post here. If her posts are not scrutinized, she will seem more credible so I agree with those who question her vigirously. I don't think it's about decency, she could be a really cool person, but that doesn't mean she can't hold a fundamentally flawed belief. I have christian friends who think fags are teh debil and should be reprogrammed too, but there really is no middle ground with them as far as I am concerned. They are wrong, and their theory holds no justifiable recourse in my view. As far as redemption, I still don't know how you convince someone who honestly believes they are saving lives, that they are in fact doing the opposite. It just doens't compute with them.

Well said.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 07, 2007, 11:34:06 AM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
I take that Anne Bonney wasn't one of these 12 lamers that apologized for me unloading a truck load of reality on Karen.

That would be a correct assumption.  I did not.


Amen sister.. you walk in the path of Afroduck. For that we cherish your resiliance to the sick stench of Kool Aid.


Fornits is not yet ready for the feathered one. Many still do not know the dogma of the flying spaghetti monster!

HIS NOODLY APPENDAGE WILL SOON TOUCH YOU! Be ready.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:35:16 AM
Quote from: ""psy""
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Wishful thinking and attempting to win the ARGUEMENT by appealing to a middle ground, you mean?

Incorrect assumption about my strategy.

Seemed pretty dead on....
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anne Bonney on January 07, 2007, 11:39:05 AM
Quote from: ""Nihilanthic""
Fornits is not yet ready for the feathered one. Many still do not know the dogma of the flying spaghetti monster!

HIS NOODLY APPENDAGE WILL SOON TOUCH YOU! Be ready.


(http://http://www.venganza.org/images/noodledoodlewall.jpg)
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:45:26 AM
Quote
No, the ends don't justify the means.


That seems to be your entire arument, though.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 07, 2007, 11:45:54 AM
Afroduck watches over us all, protecting us from AIDS, sending in the nobile afros to block us from it.

In his glorious vision we shall soon live in a world free from disease, cults, and racism... but only if those who heed the call don the fro, and block the pool.

www.poolsclosed.com (http://www.poolsclosed.com)

Next raid is on MLK day! NO MORE RACISM!
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:47:08 AM
Only in America will your government kill you and then give you a holiday years later.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: egypt has pyramids on January 07, 2007, 11:48:43 AM
That was directed at Karen.

Quote

No one is denying her making those statements. It is her cheesy attempt at a middle ground arguement on her part. Had she not been spouting her support for Second Nature every chance she had I probably would have heckled her once or twice for old times sake and forgot about her.


I think this much is fairly obvious to anyone reading these threads on a regular basis. She's got a good grasp on vocabulary and knows how to parse words like the best of them. It reminds me of the write up on SNWP website, but much more sophisticated. They are amateurs compared to Karen.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:00:03 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Karen Austin is a college educated woman. She by now should have the intellectual reasoning skills to formulate opinions on her own. Karen Austin needs no breast feeding to get her to see the light. What we have is a clever ploy on her part to either pull another fast one, or to gain a big dramatic moment to oppose programs.

Well fuck that. I am not here to be bothered with someone's lame assed attention seeking. I am here to crush programs.

 :nworthy:  ::nod::  ::cheers::  ::rocker::  ::both::
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Froderik on January 07, 2007, 12:04:24 PM
Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""
Amen sister.. you walk in the path of Afroduck.

Afroduck...
Has a nice ring to it.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:07:27 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
No, the ends don't justify the means.

That seems to be your entire arument, though.

And?
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: exhausted on January 07, 2007, 04:57:42 PM
I'm in touch with Karen myself, but I did not apologise on TSW's behalf, they're his opinions and he's entitled to them AS IS SHE!

I agree with Psy on this - i said so before, running parents like Karen off the board is a bad move, they'll go and get support from parents who are all for sending kids off to programs, what does that achieve? The opposite of what you claim to want, the opposite of TSW's purpose in life to shut down all programs - well done, you just pushed a parent away who was having a real look at programs and what they really do, yep way to go
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 07:46:39 PM
Quote from: ""exhausted""
I'm in touch with Karen myself

That must be rough!  :rofl:  ..  :rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 09:24:13 PM
Quote
What I didn't realize was that a parent was not welcome to post unless he or she condemned all programs categorically.


Everyone is welcome to post, thats why its an unmoderated forum. There are no troops because fornits is not an organized force, just a bunch of people spoutin their truth.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:26:41 PM
:wstupid:

Cat herder.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:28:53 PM
meow.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:35:53 PM
Karen:

(http://http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/zachmann1962/156.gif)
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:41:18 PM
:rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 11:52:02 PM
(http://http://www.novanoticias.com.ar/data/fotos2/25904_NedFlanders.jpg)(http://http://www.novanoticias.com.ar/data/fotos2/25904_NedFlanders.jpg)
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: AtomicAnt on January 08, 2007, 01:07:10 AM
Comparing Carlbrook to jail is like asking, "Is it better to be shot or stabbed?"

The reality is that Karen never really faced an either/or decision like that. Maybe she thinks she did. Maybe those who sold her the program made her feel like that was her choice; but there was never a moment where only those two options existed.

There exists in this world, an infinite number of paths one can take.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 08, 2007, 02:58:19 AM
Shes just trying to find a favorable middle ground for her forgone conclusion...

The same thing he has been doing since she offered a 'truce'!

SHE IS A FREAKING LAWYER. THIS IS WHAT SHE DOES.


 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 08, 2007, 07:10:03 AM
If I were Karen I wouldn't make to much of a big deal about TSW being bombed out of his gourd during the Carlbrookgate fiasco. It does draw notice to the fact that she got her ass kicked by a guy who was probably so drunk he could barely see straight.

Well that is Karen for you. Must be one lousy lawyer to give up her composure that easily.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 08, 2007, 07:12:07 AM
She cant pull courtroom hijinx here because there is no Judge to butter up, no rules of conduct, and no need to stay on topic.

There really is no topic, except us trying to press the point of a lack of evidence, no therapy, bla bla bla, and Karen trying to find a middleground to justify what she's done and other wishful thinking.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 09:03:47 PM
::bump::
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 09:05:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
If I were Karen I wouldn't make to much of a big deal about TSW being bombed out of his gourd during the Carlbrookgate fiasco. It does draw notice to the fact that she got her ass kicked by a guy who was probably so drunk he could barely see straight.

Well that is Karen for you. Must be one lousy lawyer to give up her composure that easily.

 :rofl:  ::bangin::  :wave: :tup:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 09:05:38 PM
I had a few drinks with Karen at the courthouse, she's really not as bad as you guys think.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 09:09:55 PM
Quote
I had a few drinks with Karen at the courthouse, she's really not as bad as you guys think.

Oh? :roll:

Do tell!  :rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Charly on January 09, 2007, 09:13:21 PM
Good try.  I don't even know where the courthouse is.  Not that type of lawyer.  Wouldn't mind the drinks, though!
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 09:17:25 PM
Don't play coy Karen.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 09, 2007, 09:22:18 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't play coy Karen.

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Antigen on January 10, 2007, 04:05:53 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0646340376 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6035121170646340376)
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: try another castle on January 10, 2007, 04:20:16 AM
Quote from: ""Cassandra""
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6035121170646340376



 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:


For some reason, it gets funnier the more you watch it.
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Antigen on January 10, 2007, 04:30:48 AM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0646340376 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6035121170646340376)
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Nihilanthic on January 10, 2007, 06:15:01 AM
Quote from: ""Charly""
Good try.  I don't even know where the courthouse is.  Not that type of lawyer.  Wouldn't mind the drinks, though!


That's ginger's old icon, you know  :rofl:
Title: Confrontation Thread: IE Karen In Dallas Apology PMs
Post by: Anonymous on January 10, 2007, 08:18:25 AM
Who ever is impersonating me needs to stop right now! I was more than happy to remain over on Struggling Teens, but this is getting out of hand. Whoever is behind this Charly person is a very clever troll. Charly you are such a bitch.