Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 07, 2007, 12:16:36 AM
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Hee Hee.. Ho Ho.. Oh my... :rofl:
who's gunna own up to being a karen-lubber? I wouldnt if I were em! :P
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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through an anonymous leak I obtained one of the PMs in question: breaking news people!
Karen,
I am so sorry for the behaviour of TSW. He means well, he really does. The problem is that he is an alcoholic. He is out of the country and this prevents an intervention. Please stay around and aprove of me. I love you karen.
Fornitscator
What a sad day for fornits. ::noway::
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I'm not sure what kind of Karen "love" anyone would want to admit to here on fornits :rofl:
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I'm not sure what kind of Karen "love" anyone would want to admit to here on fornits :rofl:
I admit to wanting to see her ass whipped HARD with a terse switch! :o
It would be beautiful! 8-)
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I think I will get a hamster and name it Karen. This way I can put him in a cage with a running track. Watch that little fucker run in a circle all god damn day. Every now and then hoist a beer and say, "To those who are about to die I salute you!" and then set the fucker on fire with lighter fluid and watch him run around my living room floor.
BE sure to videotape that shit and post it up on Youtube. Piss of some PETA freaks while your at it.. two birds, one stone.
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Yeah- thanks for the chance.
You think you OWNED me? Perhaps you should read the 12 PMs I received (most from regular fornits posters) apologizing for your behavior and saying how disgusted they were with your attitude and behavior. Even saying that you were clearly drunk when you posted.
If you read my posts instead of simply trying to humiliate me, you would have noticed that I was changing my mind about Carlbook as I learned more about the workshops and the therapy groups.
Does insulting me and my family help your cause? I took a chance by trying to share information on the thread, and all you did was attack me and try to bring the attention back to yourself. I was told that is what it is all about with you- making sure you are the center of attention.
I stopped posting on the thread because your posts were hurtful and degrading. I really have no need to subject myself to that.
My purpose isn't to promote Carlbrook and 2N. Right now I am trying to convince someone to take their kid out of HLA. I think from what I have learned, the Carlbrook program has a strong potential for abuse- emotionally, not physically. I have not yet seen anything to show me 2N uses the same techniques or is anything like that. My son, who spent a total of 16 weeks at sN, tells me it is not at all the same. My mind is open, but I have talked to a lot more people with 2N experience than you have, and so far I think it is a good program.
Keep thinking you are amusing everyone and keep thinking you "owned" me. Not quite.
Karen
View user's profile
Cant forget this baby... :P
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My mind is open, but I have talked to a lot more people with 2N experience than you have, and so far I think it is a good program.
We have our another Sou Chef right here!
Sue is to WWASP as Karen is to Carlbrook.
GIve em credibility by bashing one program, and swoop in with another. SLick, very click! (common sales tactic though)
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Wow, and people say I'm mean. (I'm not used to not being the meanest. I feel emasculated. I'll have to redouble my efforts at being nasty.)
C'mon Psy, you knew this was gonna happen. Program parents coming to Fornits will get mauled. It's like death and taxes.
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I see a poem starting to form:
Forget Karen
her ass
hit bricks.
Saggy tits
posting on
Fornits.
Drink one
drink many
send a kid away.
Smell of fish
just wont
go away.
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So Karen whoa re these forints regulars that are supposeduly hating on TSW and lubbin what you have to say? I think she is full of shit to be honest. I bet she got like 1 pm and it didnt even say that!!
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Wow, and people say I'm mean. (I'm not used to not being the meanest. I feel emasculated. I'll have to redouble my efforts at being nasty.)
C'mon Psy, you knew this was gonna happen. Program parents coming to Fornits will get mauled. It's like death and taxes.
This is how i thought it was going to play out, but I was willing to take the chance, given that some positive dialogue might come out of it.
It's the principle of the thing....
If you think you've made an ass out of Karen with your posts... you need to think more like a jury...
Who do you think came out of this looking like the more mature one? The more sane one? It depends on your perspective i suppose...
However, for once, Karen did behave herself on Fornits... And she got largely blasted for it. Regardless of her past, which she apologized for both in private and in public, what message is this sending to other program parents who might consider coming to fornits for our side of the story? What do you think she is going to say now about fornits? On ST? Where the program parents are...
Instead of alienating people we should be building alliances, turning heads, changing minds... Convincing parents to yoink their kids out... What good has this done?
Provide a hostile atmosphere and you will drive the parents right into Lon Woodbury's grateful arms. He should cut some people here a check.
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what message is this sending to other program parents who might consider coming to fornits for our side of the story?
Don't try and sell your wilderness programs on fornits and if you do expect to get shit!!! This should be obvious! Just like many WWASPS kids fell for Sou's BS you are falling for Karens.
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So Karen whoa re these forints regulars that are supposeduly hating on TSW and lubbin what you have to say? I think she is full of shit to be honest. I bet she got like 1 pm and it didnt even say that!!
She actually got quite a few (and i heard this not from her, but from actual people who PMed her). No i will not post them here.
again... what matters in terms of tempting program parents into coming to Fornits is not Karen's past (which the don't know), but the perception of her treatment here. Remember, the public at large have short memories and rarely research things past the surface. You want to show program parents the truth? You just scared off poor-little-old-Karen, who now has even more ammo with which to say "the folks on fornits hate parents... stay away"...
There is an unfortunate aspect of politics to everything in this world. Who won the publicity battle here?
There are more parents on fornits than you think, but a lot of them are too afraid to post. Yes parents are fragile. They haven't been conditioned to ignore constant attacks a-la "raps".
Yes some of these parents are fucked up, and if you don't want the kids to wind up that way you have to (guess what) talk to fucked up parents, convincing them not to make a terrible decision.
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what message is this sending to other program parents who might consider coming to fornits for our side of the story?
Don't try and sell your wilderness programs on fornits and if you do expect to get shit!!! This should be obvious! Just like many WWASPS kids fell for Sou's BS you are falling for Karens.
If i remember correctly, i had to ask which Wilderness program her kid went to.
If i remember correctly, the topic of the thread was Carlbrook but people kept changing the subject to 2N.
I was personally fooled by Sue, so i have no love for her, however Karen is a different situation.
What if her kid did improve / wasn't harmed in wilderness? Her kid was an athelete and could probably deal with a lot more physical punishment than the staff themselves. I believe her kid told her he wasn't harmed by wilderness (why wouldn't he, he told her he hated CB)... What if she's giving her honest opinion? I haven't recieved any information tying her to the wilderness program financially, and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.
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Who won the publicity battle here?
Say what you believe, not what you think other people need to hear.
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What if she's giving her honest opinion?
Many program parents honestly believe in their program, doesn't make them right. For all I know my parent is out on a message board typing away at how great my stay at a program was too, doesn't make it true.
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She actually got quite a few (and i heard this not from her, but from actual people who PMed her)
Well since you all think Karens wilderness program is so great, and reccomend it to parents en masse, be prepared to live with the consequences of that decision. When a kid dies in some march, and the parent comes back here and asks why you said it was safe what will you answer? Can't you see the hypocrisy in giving out advice to parents on where to send their children?
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Can't you see how stupid it is to ask for advice from a parent who needed help to deal with her kid? :roll:
HELLOOOOOOO?
This is like asking advice on finding mechanics from someone who can't mantain their car.
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Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.
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She actually got quite a few (and i heard this not from her, but from actual people who PMed her)
Well since you all think Karens wilderness program is so great, and reccomend it to parents en masse, be prepared to live with the consequences of that decision. When a kid dies in some march, and the parent comes back here and asks why you said it was safe what will you answer? Can't you see the hypocrisy in giving out advice to parents on where to send their children?
You are completely missing my point. I hate all programs, i think they should be shut down! all of them. period. no exceptions. however, the trick is to convince parents of that and you aren't going to do that by insulting them.
I do not think 2N is a good program and i wouldn't contribute towards sending anybody there. I don't think Karen is arguing anymore that 2n is a good program for any kid. She just said it appeared to work for her kid. I don't think so personally, but my opinion does not fucking matter or yours, or anybody here, unless that opinion influences sombody in a position to do something about it.
So good luck talking to her about 2N now. She was listening about Carlbrook and now her opinion has changed. If TSW (yes you fuckhead) hadn't jumped down her throat we might have been able to talk her out of her support for 2n as well.
Where do most parents get recommendations for programs besides the ed-cons? OTHER PARENTS!!!!!!! and unlike ed-cons, most parents do so out of ignorance rather than greed. You fight ignorance with knowledge, facts, debate NOT INSULTS!.
If you want to cut a major program "supplier" off, you need to reach former parents, still stuck in their fantasy world of "oh gee, they saved my kid's life."
but heaven forbid we bite our tongues in order to do so... focusing on a goal for more than than 15 seconds away.
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Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.
What good is the truth if nobody will listen to it?
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You go ahead and bite your tongue when a program parent comes here and starts singing the praises of a debunked program if you want, but to expect everyone else to do so... guess you haven't been around fornits long enough yet.
If TSW (yes you fuckhead) hadn't jumped down her throat we might have been able to talk her out of her support for 2n as well.
Talk her out of support? This is several years later since her kid got out, I don't think that's going to change. And ask if she regrets Carlbrook and wouldn't do it again if repeating history. Shes got you good.
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Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.
What good is the truth if nobody will listen to it?
Karen is ONE person. One person. And also the last and least relevant person to this discussion. Her kids are grown. She sent them to programs and would do it again. And reccommends programs to other parents, as seen on multiple message boards. (god only knows what she suggests in pms)
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She just said it appeared to work for her kid.
So do my parents. And nothing could be further from the truth.
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Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.
What good is the truth if nobody will listen to it?
Karen is ONE person. One person. And also the last and least relevant person to this discussion. Her kids are grown. She sent them to programs and would do it again. And reccommends programs to other parents, as seen on multiple message boards. (god only knows what she suggests in pms)
She used to recommend Carlbrook. She does not anymore.
Her vocal nature with other parents, and her ST support make her relevant.
If she is truly malicious, and does not care about kids(in which case she cannot be turned), I am waisting my time. However, I don't know her well enough to make that judgment and I do not listen to rumors, heresay, and he-said-she-said bullshit.
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If you want to cut a major program "supplier" off, I want you to reach former parents, still stuck in their fantasy world of "oh gee, they saved my kid's life."
Karen still inhabitates that world willingly and isn't coming out. Karen has never changed her tune. She has always been critical of Carlbrook and other programs. Nobody is changing her mind here. Go read her old posts and you will see that they are exactly the same. The truth is plain to see. This website is filled with accounts of horrific abuse at programs. She, like other people who post here with pro-program agendas, use those tales of abuse to make their programs look better than the shit that's already out there. That disgusts me.
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She just said it appeared to work for her kid.
So do my parents. And nothing could be further from the truth.
So talk to your parents until you convince them otherwise (i did with my dad). Mom's in progress.
Make them pissed off at your treatment. All you have to do is tell the truth and back your story up evidence (other people's testimony, books, research).
Imagine a million pissed off parents with disposable income...
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She used to recommend Carlbrook. She does not anymore.
For the same reason Sou stopped reccomending WWASPS programs. To gain credibility. The ploy worked, obviously.
How would you feel if I thought Benchmark was a lighter version of the program I was at, and dismissed all claims of abuse. Say I was at TB and forced to lay on my face for weeks, does that give me the right to reccomend other programs that aren't as bad based on my experience?
That's what she is doing with the wilderness program she loves so dearly.
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She just said it appeared to work for her kid.
So do my parents. And nothing could be further from the truth.
So talk to your parents until you convince them otherwise (i did with my dad). Mom's in progress.
Make them pissed off at your treatment. All you have to do is tell the truth and back your story up evidence (other people's testimony, books, research).
Imagine a million pissed off parents with disposable income...
I explained to them what was going on in real-time through letters. So anything now is just a farce, we all know it so there's no point really. My only point with this post is not every parent is ignorant and loving, some get exactly what they pay for and still think its a great idea. I don't put Karen in that same category, I just think she's really slick at sneaking in a pro program agenda under guise of being critical of Carlbrook.
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If you want to cut a major program "supplier" off, I want you to reach former parents, still stuck in their fantasy world of "oh gee, they saved my kid's life."
Karen still inhabitates that world willingly and isn't coming out. Karen has never changed her tune. She has always been critical of Carlbrook and other programs. Nobody is changing her mind here. Go read her old posts and you will see that they are exactly the same. The truth is plain to see. This website is filled with accounts of horrific abuse at programs. She, like other people who post here with pro-program agendas, use those tales of abuse to make their programs look better than the shit that's already out there. That disgusts me.
It disgusts me too. However, What is Karen's agenda? Do you have any evidence? Some people are decent inside? Do I believe she is? Perhaps.
People beyond redemption: TTI ed-cons, program staff, natsap members. as far as i'm concerned they should all be hanged like Saddam. and that isn't a joke. the whole program mentality is cancerous. Whenever one school shuts down, the staff scatter, starting their own little hellholes. hang them all and end it.
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She just said it appeared to work for her kid.
So do my parents. And nothing could be further from the truth.
So talk to your parents until you convince them otherwise (i did with my dad). Mom's in progress.
Make them pissed off at your treatment. All you have to do is tell the truth and back your story up evidence (other people's testimony, books, research).
Imagine a million pissed off parents with disposable income...
I explained to them what was going on in real-time through letters. So anything now is just a farce, we all know it so there's no point really. My only point with this post is not every parent is ignorant and loving, some get exactly what they pay for and still think its a great idea. I don't put Karen in that same category, I just think she's really slick at sneaking in a pro program agenda under guise of being critical of Carlbrook.
Letters in program? or outside?
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It disgusts me too. However, What is Karen's agenda? Do you have any evidence? Some people are decent inside? Do I believe she is? Perhaps.
People beyond redemption: TTI ed-cons, program staff, natsap members. as far as i'm concerned they should all be hanged like Saddam. and that isn't a joke. the whole program mentality is cancerous. Whenever one school shuts down, the staff scatter, starting their own little hellholes. hang them all and end it.
I believe her agenda to include reccomending SNWP to program parents who post here. If her posts are not scrutinized, she will seem more credible so I agree with those who question her vigirously. I don't think it's about decency, she could be a really cool person, but that doesn't mean she can't hold a fundamentally flawed belief. I have christian friends who think fags are teh debil and should be reprogrammed too, but there really is no middle ground with them as far as I am concerned. They are wrong, and their theory holds no justifiable recourse in my view. As far as redemption, I still don't know how you convince someone who honestly believes they are saving lives, that they are in fact doing the opposite. It just doens't compute with them.
Letters in program? or outside?
Both.
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She used to recommend Carlbrook. She does not anymore.
For the same reason Sou stopped reccomending WWASPS programs. To gain credibility. The ploy worked, obviously.
How would you feel if I thought Benchmark was a lighter version of the program I was at, and dismissed all claims of abuse.
I would feel sorry for you. I would roll my eyes since i've heard it all before. Talk to the average shmoe on the subway about this and hear their reaction. Nobody believes the industry exists at all.
What other people feel doesn't really matter to me unless they are in a position of influence. Parents are in a position of influence. When a program parent hears you were in a program they immediately go "aha. just as manipulative as my son". When a parent says the same thing it's "oh my god!". Not always, but the chances are better.
Say I was at TB and forced to lay on my face for weeks, does that give me the right to reccomend other programs that aren't as bad based on my experience?
That's what she is doing with the wilderness program she loves so dearly.
She is going to recommend the place, here, or elsewhere, until somebody convinces her otherwise. Is it hopeless? possably (i'm guessing she does it out of ignorance and misguided good-will). Is it pointless to try? no.
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Wishful thinking and attempting to win the ARGUEMENT by appealing to a middle ground, you mean?
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She is going to recommend the place, here, or elsewhere, until somebody convinces her otherwise.
This is a corporate lawyer making six figures, she's smart enough to figure it out on her own. She HAS it all figured out, she has reached her conclusions, and I happen to disagree with them.
Is it hopeless? possably (i'm guessing she does it out of ignorance and misguided good-will). Is it pointless to try? no.
I am not saying you should stop. All the power to you, good luck sincerely. I am just saying I don't agree, I see something else happening which is an acceptance of "lighter" programs by an increasing number of people. This is the agenda of ST. They are anti-wwasp and anti abusive programs, and then sell you other programs. Its no different. I know I would never feel comfortable telling a parent what to do with their kid, even though they ask all the time I just don't answer. Who am I to know and why are they asking a complete stranger? :-?
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It disgusts me too. However, What is Karen's agenda? Do you have any evidence? Some people are decent inside? Do I believe she is? Perhaps.
People beyond redemption: TTI ed-cons, program staff, natsap members. as far as i'm concerned they should all be hanged like Saddam. and that isn't a joke. the whole program mentality is cancerous. Whenever one school shuts down, the staff scatter, starting their own little hellholes. hang them all and end it.
I believe her agenda to include reccomending SNWP to program parents who post here. If her posts are not scrutinized, she will seem more credible so I agree with those who question her vigirously. I don't think it's about decency, she could be a really cool person, but that doesn't mean she can't hold a fundamentally flawed belief. I have christian friends who think fags are teh debil and should be reprogrammed too, but there really is no middle ground with them as far as I am concerned. They are wrong, and their theory holds no justifiable recourse in my view. As far as redemption, I still don't know how you convince someone who honestly believes they are saving lives, that they are in fact doing the opposite. It just doens't compute with them.
Letters in program? or outside?
Both.
It's possible to deprogram anybody by providing facts that solidly disprove their beliefs.
There are exceptions. If the result of the information would produce too much guilt, the mind protects itself against the knowledge with denial (common problem with deprogramming parents).
That "roadblock" in their deprogramming is the biggest pain in the ass with some parents. It would kill them to know so their mind protects them.
Still. Even then, repeated exposure to reality, the facts. Keep at it and eventually you can force them out of it (if you want to push things).
Alternatively, it the parents do not present a danger (by recommending programs left right and centre), you can just let them be in their little fantasy worlds.
If it's important to you that your parents know the truth, don't stop until they do (just don't push them too hard or they might "lock up"... if they do that, good luck finding the reset button).
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Wishful thinking and attempting to win the ARGUEMENT by appealing to a middle ground, you mean?
Incorrect assumption about my strategy. pm/im me if you want my "legal strategy"
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Keeping my parents out of my life is probably the one thing keeping my sane at this point. As fucked up as I can be, they are even more childish and petty than I am and surprise when I left at 18 things got that much easier. But I know exactly what you mean about the general society person you tell about these things, most common response i've heard, "they wouldn't let something like that happen in america." :roll:
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The problem with all of what Karen is doing is that its based upon trying to support a forgone conclusion, specifically that there is a "good program", which is like a "polishable turd" (fossilized turds not withstanding..) and that 2N did so help and was not abusive.
TSW has broken everything down to the nth degree, more than once. We have pointed out her arguementative fallacies and the fact that she wants to win the arguement, not actually get to the crux of the problem - quackery, forced 'treatment' that is not, coersion, what adds up to brainwashing, and that all roads lead back to Erhard/Syannon/CEDU/Lifespring... more than once.
When specifics finally come out, we debunk them, and this has been done more than once.
All she does is come back around and try the same thing with a different nuance again and then try to find some kind of 'middle ground' that is nonexistant.
Are we doing good? Damn straight! She keeps trying, we keep shooting it down... shes throwing clay pigeons out and we're shooting them down with varying levels of civility, but no matter how frustrated or vitriolic we get, the truth is the truth, regardless of how it is presented.
Anyone willing to soak in the information, think, and reason will most likely have nothing to do with the industry. People who NEED a easy answer for their own sake will either just do it, or try to find a "less abusive" program, or try to find the magical "good program" even though it's utter nonsense to even suggest.
At any rate, we are helping a lot of people, and just adding to the depth of what we're trying to do and even more proof about what is really going on with both the programs and the apologists. Imagine what the archives of fornits will turn out to be to some anthropologists or historians in the future when these programs finally get exposed and our great great great grandchildren are alive?
We ain't gonna ditch it before the current generation has out-aged "programming" years unless the government finally steps in, but the next one could be spared if we manage to organize and spread awareness. So, I guess at least in a minor way, we are doing good.
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Wishful thinking and attempting to win the ARGUEMENT by appealing to a middle ground, you mean?
Incorrect assumption about my strategy. pm/im me if you want my "legal strategy"
]
No, what KAREN is doing, silly.
I should have directed it or contexualized, sorry.
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Keeping my parents out of my life is probably the one thing keeping my sane at this point. As fucked up as I can be, they are even more childish and petty than I am and surprise when I left at 18 things got that much easier. But I know exactly what you mean about the general society person you tell about these things, most common response i've heard, "they wouldn't let something like that happen in america." :roll:
Yeah I love that one. Yeah... same shit 70 years ago in Germany.
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If Karen is truly starting to see problems with Carlbrook, why doesn't she post that? I can't stand it when people attack program parents right out of the gate but Karen is a completely different story. She's been here on and off for a couple of years promoting programs and being just as insulting, if not more, than some of our more 'colorful' members here. She seemed to be able to take the heat long enough to post pro-program shit, why can't she take it now and post her doubts or whatever it is she's starting to realize?
I've yelled at people for attacking some of the parents, but like I said...Karen is a completely different animal.
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I see a poem starting to form:
Forget Karen
her ass
hit bricks.
Saggy tits
posting on
Fornits.
Drink one
drink [too?] many
send a kid away.
Smell of fish
just wont
go away.
:rofl: :rofl:
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Without sifting through all the threads, I do recall she posted several times she was changing her mind about Carlbrook. Psy confirmed that.
She wrote to TSW, "I think from what I have learned, the Carlbrook program has a strong potential for abuse- emotionally, not physically."
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Programs are not acceptable.
Care that is not volunatry is not acceptable.
Care that involves isolation is not acceptable.
Care involving stage systems is not acceptable.
Care that does not allow you to leave at anytime you choose is not acceptable.
:nworthy: :tup:
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Karen is just good at fooling people with her faux caring attitude, when all she is concerned with is constructing the perception she desperately needs. Don't waste your time battling someone over their perception when you can see the reality, it's a waste of time.
What good is the truth if nobody will listen to it?
And what good is trying to shove it down someone's throat?
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Charly wrote:
Thanks, Deborah. I guess I thought the Carlbrook program was a lot different. It appears as though it is not. I think they softened it up a little, but the CEDU elements are there. I can see how it could affect a younger kid more severely than an older one- especially an emotionally hardened kid like my son. Perhaps his very flaws served him well. I really do feel that 2N built on my son's strengths and leadership abilities, just as I can see how these things were negatives at Carlbrook. I got mixed messages though (from C-brook). I think one of the heads could really relate to my son- saw a lot of himself in him. Enough to know that strength/resistance could throw a monkey wrench into things. They liked for things to go smoothly, and that wasn't what my son tended to bring to a community."
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Imagine a million pissed off parents with disposable income...
Yeah.... Imagine.. ::hehehmm:: :rofl:
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Without sifting through all the threads, I do recall she posted several times she was changing her mind about Carlbrook. Psy confirmed that.
She wrote to TSW, "I think from what I have learned, the Carlbrook program has a strong potential for abuse- emotionally, not physically."
No one is denying her making those statements. It is her cheesy attempt at a middle ground arguement on her part. Had she not been spouting her support for Second Nature every chance she had I probably would have heckled her once or twice for old times sake and forgot about her.
The issue is she is lying, again, and claiming that I was all mean and malicious to her. This is her weak excuse for leaving. Then a bunch of lamers came and apologized for me dropping a fat load of reality on her head about her precisious Second Nature.
Come on people.. Karen in Dallas has a thin skin???
Haven't we all seen the shit she has dished out on people? The way she treats people who don't toe the party line over on Struggling Turds? Her many attempts to troll and instigate trouble here on fornits?
For the love of christ! What I was saying to her was tame. She only left after her little pet poonjab program got shown to be a fraud. Suddenly she had no middle ground to hide in. Her only choice would have been for her to conceed that Second nature is a turd heap and eat some crow.
She didn't. She made up some crap about what a meanie I am and ran away sniveling. Sadly some ding bats supported her on this foolish lame assed notion. When they should have further condemned her for supporting any program.
We aren't here to sell programs. We are here to shut them all the fuck down.
Karen Austin is a college educated woman. She by now should have the intellectual reasoning skills to formulate opinions on her own. Karen Austin needs no breast feeding to get her to see the light. What we have is a clever ploy on her part to either pull another fast one, or to gain a big dramatic moment to oppose programs.
Well fuck that. I am not here to be bothered with someone's lame assed attention seeking. I am here to crush programs.
I would just like to remark my shit to her about trying to guilt her regarding what her son went through was a hell of a lot more vicious than what TSW did with his relatively childish insultings.
What puzzles me is I stepped past every line I believe in, felt guilty about it even, but that hurt her less than TSW's flaming bag of "truth".
:roll:
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I take that Anne Bonney wasn't one of these 12 lamers that apologized for me unloading a truck load of reality on Karen.
That would be a correct assumption. I did not.
And again...she didn't have a problem taking heat when she was posting all the pro-Carlbrook shit, why is it such a problem now? She has played this game of hers for a looong time and she's often been as bad or worse than some of the "meanies" here.
Quit being such a crybaby Karen. You fucked up in shipping your kid off.......twice. Start talking about that and maybe you wouldn't get slammed so much.
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I believe her agenda to include reccomending SNWP to program parents who post here. If her posts are not scrutinized, she will seem more credible so I agree with those who question her vigirously. I don't think it's about decency, she could be a really cool person, but that doesn't mean she can't hold a fundamentally flawed belief. I have christian friends who think fags are teh debil and should be reprogrammed too, but there really is no middle ground with them as far as I am concerned. They are wrong, and their theory holds no justifiable recourse in my view. As far as redemption, I still don't know how you convince someone who honestly believes they are saving lives, that they are in fact doing the opposite. It just doens't compute with them.
Well said.
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I take that Anne Bonney wasn't one of these 12 lamers that apologized for me unloading a truck load of reality on Karen.
That would be a correct assumption. I did not.
Amen sister.. you walk in the path of Afroduck. For that we cherish your resiliance to the sick stench of Kool Aid.
Fornits is not yet ready for the feathered one. Many still do not know the dogma of the flying spaghetti monster!
HIS NOODLY APPENDAGE WILL SOON TOUCH YOU! Be ready.
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Wishful thinking and attempting to win the ARGUEMENT by appealing to a middle ground, you mean?
Incorrect assumption about my strategy.
Seemed pretty dead on....
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Fornits is not yet ready for the feathered one. Many still do not know the dogma of the flying spaghetti monster!
HIS NOODLY APPENDAGE WILL SOON TOUCH YOU! Be ready.
(http://http://www.venganza.org/images/noodledoodlewall.jpg)
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No, the ends don't justify the means.
That seems to be your entire arument, though.
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Afroduck watches over us all, protecting us from AIDS, sending in the nobile afros to block us from it.
In his glorious vision we shall soon live in a world free from disease, cults, and racism... but only if those who heed the call don the fro, and block the pool.
www.poolsclosed.com (http://www.poolsclosed.com)
Next raid is on MLK day! NO MORE RACISM!
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Only in America will your government kill you and then give you a holiday years later.
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That was directed at Karen.
No one is denying her making those statements. It is her cheesy attempt at a middle ground arguement on her part. Had she not been spouting her support for Second Nature every chance she had I probably would have heckled her once or twice for old times sake and forgot about her.
I think this much is fairly obvious to anyone reading these threads on a regular basis. She's got a good grasp on vocabulary and knows how to parse words like the best of them. It reminds me of the write up on SNWP website, but much more sophisticated. They are amateurs compared to Karen.
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Karen Austin is a college educated woman. She by now should have the intellectual reasoning skills to formulate opinions on her own. Karen Austin needs no breast feeding to get her to see the light. What we have is a clever ploy on her part to either pull another fast one, or to gain a big dramatic moment to oppose programs.
Well fuck that. I am not here to be bothered with someone's lame assed attention seeking. I am here to crush programs.
:nworthy: ::nod:: ::cheers:: ::rocker:: ::both::
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Amen sister.. you walk in the path of Afroduck.
Afroduck...
Has a nice ring to it.
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No, the ends don't justify the means.
That seems to be your entire arument, though.
And?
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I'm in touch with Karen myself, but I did not apologise on TSW's behalf, they're his opinions and he's entitled to them AS IS SHE!
I agree with Psy on this - i said so before, running parents like Karen off the board is a bad move, they'll go and get support from parents who are all for sending kids off to programs, what does that achieve? The opposite of what you claim to want, the opposite of TSW's purpose in life to shut down all programs - well done, you just pushed a parent away who was having a real look at programs and what they really do, yep way to go
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I'm in touch with Karen myself
That must be rough! :rofl: .. :rofl:
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What I didn't realize was that a parent was not welcome to post unless he or she condemned all programs categorically.
Everyone is welcome to post, thats why its an unmoderated forum. There are no troops because fornits is not an organized force, just a bunch of people spoutin their truth.
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:wstupid:
Cat herder.
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meow.
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Karen:
(http://http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/zachmann1962/156.gif)
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:rofl:
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(http://http://www.novanoticias.com.ar/data/fotos2/25904_NedFlanders.jpg)(http://http://www.novanoticias.com.ar/data/fotos2/25904_NedFlanders.jpg)
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Comparing Carlbrook to jail is like asking, "Is it better to be shot or stabbed?"
The reality is that Karen never really faced an either/or decision like that. Maybe she thinks she did. Maybe those who sold her the program made her feel like that was her choice; but there was never a moment where only those two options existed.
There exists in this world, an infinite number of paths one can take.
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Shes just trying to find a favorable middle ground for her forgone conclusion...
The same thing he has been doing since she offered a 'truce'!
SHE IS A FREAKING LAWYER. THIS IS WHAT SHE DOES.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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If I were Karen I wouldn't make to much of a big deal about TSW being bombed out of his gourd during the Carlbrookgate fiasco. It does draw notice to the fact that she got her ass kicked by a guy who was probably so drunk he could barely see straight.
Well that is Karen for you. Must be one lousy lawyer to give up her composure that easily.
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She cant pull courtroom hijinx here because there is no Judge to butter up, no rules of conduct, and no need to stay on topic.
There really is no topic, except us trying to press the point of a lack of evidence, no therapy, bla bla bla, and Karen trying to find a middleground to justify what she's done and other wishful thinking.
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::bump::
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If I were Karen I wouldn't make to much of a big deal about TSW being bombed out of his gourd during the Carlbrookgate fiasco. It does draw notice to the fact that she got her ass kicked by a guy who was probably so drunk he could barely see straight.
Well that is Karen for you. Must be one lousy lawyer to give up her composure that easily.
:rofl: ::bangin:: :wave: :tup:
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I had a few drinks with Karen at the courthouse, she's really not as bad as you guys think.
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I had a few drinks with Karen at the courthouse, she's really not as bad as you guys think.
Oh? :roll:
Do tell! :rofl:
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Good try. I don't even know where the courthouse is. Not that type of lawyer. Wouldn't mind the drinks, though!
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Don't play coy Karen.
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Don't play coy Karen.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0646340376 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6035121170646340376)
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6035121170646340376
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
For some reason, it gets funnier the more you watch it.
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0646340376 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6035121170646340376)
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Good try. I don't even know where the courthouse is. Not that type of lawyer. Wouldn't mind the drinks, though!
That's ginger's old icon, you know :rofl:
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Who ever is impersonating me needs to stop right now! I was more than happy to remain over on Struggling Teens, but this is getting out of hand. Whoever is behind this Charly person is a very clever troll. Charly you are such a bitch.