Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 01, 2007, 01:41:37 PM
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I am the parent of a current HLA student who has a serious addiction problem. We tried everything we knew about---multiple therapists, local programs, meetings, various consequences, discipline,etc., but still he managed to use whatever he could get his hands on---we just could not get him to stop using, so since he is a minor I felt it was our responsibility as parents (we are divorced and have not always agreed on appropriate action) to keep him safe and try to stop his substance abuse even though he was not a willing participant. Over the last two years he has been at two wilderness programs (both fabulous I thought---the therapists and staff far superior from what I've seen at therapeutic schools) another school, which I was not very impressed with, but he came home at Christmas last year (against his therapist's recommendation), ran away to miss the plane back and then managed to convince his father to let him stay home. He hated this other school and when I visited HLA I thought it would be much better (both were recommended by a consultant who seemed to be ethical and knowledgable). Well, he hates HLA even more than the other school he says, and he tells us all sorts of negative things, including that he obtains and sells various substances there. What makes this more difficult is that my child often lies and it is hard to discern what is truth and what is said in an effort to get back home. We have told him he is not coming home until we feel that he has addressed hid substance abuse issues and we feel he isn't a danger to himself and others. I asked him if there is another school he thinks would be better and he suggested Hyde. I looked briefly at some of the Hyde postings and got the impresion that there are serious issues there---it didn't strike me as a good alternative. So my question to those of you have knowledge about these things---is there another place that would be a good alternative for a 17 year old (just had his bday) who needs serious substance abuse help. He says the only place he really felt good about and supported by peole who really wanted to stop using was a local 30+ day program for adults which he ran away from and was eventually kicked out of for multiple instances of using. We don't know if they would take him back and aren't sure it makes sense since we already tried it and failed. He needs a place where he really can't get drugs and alcohol. Is it in fact possible that he has such easy access at HLA? Its very hard to know what to believe. I have been reading the postings on this site and others for some time (I didn't know about them before we sent him to HLA) and a lot of what I read worries me, as well as the allegations in the law suit. But I know that allegations are just that, they may or may not be true and some of them and the other issues dissected here and elsewhere pale in comparison to the issues and concerns I have as the parent of a son who would surely self destruct if we let him (let me just say he has taken huge risks with his health and safety for himself and his family. I think I understand some of the issues the people on this site complain about---certainly there is a lot to complain about at most of the schools and programs and I'm sure there are parents who overreact and send there kids away when they don't need to, but I really believe that the majority of them only do it when they have tried everything else and failed. I don't believe that most parents want to get rid of their troublesome teenagers, most of them, like us, would give most anything to be able to have their kids home with them. If you are at a point where you believe your child's health and safety are at risk then sending them away can be an act of love, not bad parenting. Sorry to have rambled so long, I would appreciate feedback as to the liklihood of truth of access of drugs at HLA and better alternatives, if there are any. Thank you all very much in advance.
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Your efforts at self-justification for sending your kid away to be abused have been
Please kill yourself immediately.
Thanks,
Fornits management
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Milk,
Thank you for your lovely reply.I'm not sure what kind of help you need but you surely haven't gotten it. I'm truly sorry if you had terrible experiences and hate your parents (and others for that matter) but that does not give you the right to pass judgment on parents who are struggling to do their best. The background I provided was not meant to be justification but background info.
Its likely a waste of effort to try to get through to someone as cold and heartless as you appear to be. Your parents have probably said this to you, but I can't resist---it would be so fitting for you to have a troubled child of your own some day. Good luck with that.
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panther- I tried to send you a private message but wasn't able to. If you want to contact me, perhaps we can discuss some ideas.
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Panther, it appears that the allegations concerning readily avaiible access to both drugs and alcohol at HLA are true. When I was a student there (several years ago) it happened but not near to the apparent degree it occurs today. With that in mind HLA may not be the best environment for your son.
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the allegations of drug use/abuse and availability are very much the truth in a lot of the situations...
as a prior staff member, i have seen incident reports of students who have "cheeked" their medications and "sold" them to other students...since they don't have money...or are not supposed to (but most do) they will sell them for all sorts of things...toiletries, food, money, favors, silence, etc...
students also have ways of bringing drugs onto campus AND procuring them at the meetings, etc that they go to in town...
hopefully the other poster was able to discuss some alternatives for you and your child...i am sorry for your frustration and i hope that you and your family can find some peace regarding this...oh and another thing...i hope you didn't pre-pay his stay at HLA cause most likely you will not see your refund and will have to pay even more if you try to sue to get your money back...sorry, but that is also the truth...ask other parents who have tried recently...
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Sounds like a functioning prison economy.
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I give it..
[troll2]
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Sounds like a functioning prison economy.
Exactly.
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Your efforts at self-justification for sending your kid away to be abused have been
Please kill yourself immediately.
Thanks,
Fornits management
what an asshole thing to say. another human reaches out thier hand for help and you slap it away, and play it off as a joke. what an arrogant thing to do. the concerned mother was looking for some help, and instead of being a good representitive of fornits and offering a solution, you ignorantly and apathetically crack off a sarcastic and self pitty-ridden reply. get over your shit and concentrate on doing some good, instead of bringing everyone down with you.
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Your efforts at self-justification for sending your kid away to be abused have been
Please kill yourself immediately.
Thanks,
Fornits management
what an asshole thing to say. another human reaches out thier hand for help and you slap it away, and play it off as a joke. what an arrogant thing to do. the concerned mother was looking for some help, and instead of being a good representitive of fornits and offering a solution, you ignorantly and apathetically crack off a sarcastic and self pitty-ridden reply. get over your shit and concentrate on doing some good, instead of bringing everyone down with you.
You do a shitty job at trying to guilt-trip people. If you don't like what we say, why do you read this forum in the first place? Please, keep the stupidity to a minimum...
-FLCLcowdude
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Your efforts at self-justification for sending your kid away to be abused have been
Please kill yourself immediately.
Thanks,
Fornits management
what an asshole thing to say. another human reaches out thier hand for help and you slap it away, and play it off as a joke. what an arrogant thing to do. the concerned mother was looking for some help, and instead of being a good representitive of fornits and offering a solution, you ignorantly and apathetically crack off a sarcastic and self pitty-ridden reply. get over your shit and concentrate on doing some good, instead of bringing everyone down with you.
You do a shitty job at trying to guilt-trip people. If you don't like what we say, why do you read this forum in the first place? Please, keep the stupidity to a minimum...
-FLCLcowdude
i wasn't trying to guilt trip. i was trying to be honest. we're all about the truth here aren't we? sorry if my "stupid" reply was too much for you to handle, but then again, i wasn't the one telling another to commit suicide.
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Me neither, so don't give me any hookie dookie bullshit...
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I can assure you this person doesn't speak for the real management here at fornits. That person being Ginger.
Rather tasteless that you invoke Ginger's name, no matter how indirectly, in one of your nasty little comments.
Thank you! I've been plagued w/ various comp/comm problems here lately. Thanks for having my back.
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If you are at a point where you believe your child's health and safety are at risk then sending them away can be an act of love, not bad parenting. Sorry to have rambled so long, I would appreciate feedback as to the liklihood of truth of access of drugs at HLA and better alternatives, if there are any. Thank you all very much in advance.
My heart goes out to you, Panther.
Please don't take this the wrong way. At the risk of rambling on a bit myself I'll try to explain myself well enough to sidestep most of the popular misconceptions.
First, even though I think that sending your kid away is one of the most horribly damaging things you can do, I'm not mad at you for it and not judging you for it. My own parents, who I love and respect, made the same mistake... 6 times! And that's just what it was; not a crime or intentional harm, just a monumental mistake.
The nature of that mistake is what I'm interested in talking about these days. As you're starting to figure out, there probably isn't a place on the planet save for an Amish settlement or some such, where you can send someone to keep them away from drugs. And even at that you'd have to be ok with exposure to alcohol and tobacco as the Amish are.
And I think it's not a personal, individual mistake so much as it is a tragic misconception deeply rooted in our culture. See, drugs have been with us always. Never mind the latest wave of fear-mongering from the drug warriors. These new drugs are not a lot different from the old ones. We just keep coming up w/ new and interesting manufacturing techniques and distribution and consumption fads.
Addiction or substance abuse is not a disease. There is no 'treatment' or cure for it. People tend to over-indulge in various euphorics and anelgesics when they hurt a lot. I have no idea what may be bothering your kid and, odds are, he/she can't quite put a finger on it either. But believe me when I tell you that, regardless of the need for independence that most teenagers feel, being sent off by your parents is NOT helpful.
Now about that cultural misconception. This runs deep and wide. It's one of those concepts that's become so thoroughly accepted... well, let me fall back on some old and well an well tried wisdom here:
Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages,
are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour;
a long habit of not thinking a thing WRONG, gives it a superficial
appearance of being RIGHT, and raises at first a formidable outcry
in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides.
Time makes more converts than reason.
Drugs are not that dangerous. They're dangerous, sure. But not AS dangerous, nearly, as withholding natural familial love and affection.
You ARE the world's foremost expert on your kid. There is no other, there's no professional who's better able than you to help your child figure things out. Even though you've fucked up (harsh, I know, but we all really have, it's inevitable) and sometimes feel like a completely lost loser as a parent (join the club, we all do sometimes) you're still one of maybe five people (counting in chosen mentors and other family) who can really help just by simply accepting the kid unconditionally so he or she can rest and sort things out.
Please don't ever underestimate that. That's all my dad did to help me through and I don't think he even knew how important it was. After the whole program thing when I didn't turn into a heroin addicted street walker as they told him I would, he just gave up trying to figure me out and went back to being happy to see me when I turned up.... just being a dad, that's all. I can't explain how that helped, it's not asif he payed my way or gave me any grand wisdom about my problems. We didn't talk about my problems or our past problems or anything. He just was the one person in the world who, no matter what, I knew he'd be happy to see me and always on my side. There is no substitute for that.
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hla did not help me with any of my drug problems, whenever i questioned thier addictions program, the reply from the counselors was "do the work or go to restrictions" or "if you don't complete your firtst/second/ect step(s) then you will lose your break". these scare tactics are not effective, and further decrease the students' willingness to follow through with the program, and will soon resort to bullshitting the work. and besides, even if they completely isolated the campus from drugs, the students would resort to more creative means to get high, like siphoning gas from cars!!! that actually happened at a different therapudic school, but not hla. hla spreads itself too thin, dealing with issues such as eating disorders, drug addiction, family issues, emotional problems, suicidal kids, and whatever other issues of children upon which they can further capitalize. a drug rehab that deals with only addicts will probably do more good. or you could try keeping him at home and drug test him randomly and get him into a private therapist and monitor who he spends time with. let him experience the growth and development a teenager needs by giving him responsibilities like a job, managing a bank account,anything to keep him occupied and keep him on the right track. these things have helped me more than coersive therapy, restrictions, and fallout (tattle-tale sessions, narc-fest, ect.) all of these are cheaper and more effective alternitives to abusive programs i wish my mom had done that for me, there would have been more results with less time and money. these are my opinions, i am not a doctor, therapist, or counselor. i am only a college student who struggled in the same aspects of life as your son. the ultimate desicion is with you, and may it be the best.
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Though I hold w/ Stanton Peele and some others that addiction is a choice, not a disease, I have my `pinions about what often causes people to have trouble with drugs. It's real simple most of the time. Psychotropic drugs make you feel good. They work really well and that's why people use them; to treat emotional pain in various ways. The Synanon method is built on inducing stress and various kinds of emotional and physical discomfort. A good many program vets have mentioned some similarities between their Program and the fucked up things we do to inmates at places like Guantanimo Bay and Abu Grhaib. Here's a nice run down on how therapeutic that can be.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20144 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20144)
I don't think it's coincidence at all that so many of my friends from 20 odd years ago have had such severe problems w/ substance abuse. Not only is the Synanon method unhelpful, I think it induces the perfect conditions to foster substance abuse problems.
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I am the parent of a current HLA student who has a serious addiction problem. We tried everything we knew about---multiple therapists, local programs, meetings, various consequences, discipline,etc., but still he managed to use whatever he could get his hands on---we just could not get him to stop using, so since he is a minor I felt it was our responsibility as parents (we are divorced and have not always agreed on appropriate action) to keep him safe and try to stop his substance abuse even though he was not a willing participant. Over the last two years he has been at two wilderness programs (both fabulous I thought---the therapists and staff far superior from what I've seen at therapeutic schools) another school, which I was not very impressed with, but he came home at Christmas last year (against his therapist's recommendation), ran away to miss the plane back and then managed to convince his father to let him stay home. He hated this other school and when I visited HLA I thought it would be much better (both were recommended by a consultant who seemed to be ethical and knowledgable). Well, he hates HLA even more than the other school he says, and he tells us all sorts of negative things, including that he obtains and sells various substances there. What makes this more difficult is that my child often lies and it is hard to discern what is truth and what is said in an effort to get back home. We have told him he is not coming home until we feel that he has addressed hid substance abuse issues and we feel he isn't a danger to himself and others. I asked him if there is another school he thinks would be better and he suggested Hyde. I looked briefly at some of the Hyde postings and got the impresion that there are serious issues there---it didn't strike me as a good alternative. So my question to those of you have knowledge about these things---is there another place that would be a good alternative for a 17 year old (just had his bday) who needs serious substance abuse help. He says the only place he really felt good about and supported by peole who really wanted to stop using was a local 30+ day program for adults which he ran away from and was eventually kicked out of for multiple instances of using. We don't know if they would take him back and aren't sure it makes sense since we already tried it and failed. He needs a place where he really can't get drugs and alcohol. Is it in fact possible that he has such easy access at HLA? Its very hard to know what to believe. I have been reading the postings on this site and others for some time (I didn't know about them before we sent him to HLA) and a lot of what I read worries me, as well as the allegations in the law suit. But I know that allegations are just that, they may or may not be true and some of them and the other issues dissected here and elsewhere pale in comparison to the issues and concerns I have as the parent of a son who would surely self destruct if we let him (let me just say he has taken huge risks with his health and safety for himself and his family. I think I understand some of the issues the people on this site complain about---certainly there is a lot to complain about at most of the schools and programs and I'm sure there are parents who overreact and send there kids away when they don't need to, but I really believe that the majority of them only do it when they have tried everything else and failed. I don't believe that most parents want to get rid of their troublesome teenagers, most of them, like us, would give most anything to be able to have their kids home with them. If you are at a point where you believe your child's health and safety are at risk then sending them away can be an act of love, not bad parenting. Sorry to have rambled so long, I would appreciate feedback as to the liklihood of truth of access of drugs at HLA and better alternatives, if there are any. Thank you all very much in advance.
THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE TO BEING A PARENT.
Re-read that a few times.
There is no magic answer, no easy button, no "program" that can replace being a parent. Period. IT DOES NOT EXIST.
There is no evidence, anywhere, that any program that has ever existed has ever done any good to anyone put in them or has lowered recidivism regarding drug ABUSE, crime, treating psychological conditions, depression, ADD, ADHD, or whatnot.
Go look if you want, you won't find any. All they have are unscientific SURVEYS of parents of program-graduate students. Thats not proof, thats not evidence, its nonsense.
What you really should do, is pull your kid out, and be a parent, and try to repair the damage HLA (just like any other program) has done to your child. Get a real shrink. Let him be free and have volition and human rights and a normal adolescence again. Its a VERY important time in life and taking that away from someone, stealing the last part of their childhood, is a horrible, horrible, horrible thing to do.
You were fooled by the industry. ED-cons are not professionals, they just get paid for each referral. They are not equipped to diagnose a god damned thing, did you know that? I doubt they told you...
Programs are also completely unable to treat anything! When pressed they admit they don't! All they do is something that is unmeasurable, (and nonsensical...) which is "Emotional Growth" - which is basically their excuse to do quackery and call it useful. Or, they just say they're a behavior modification school. And you know what that is, right?
"Do what we want, say what we want, act like you think and believe as we want you to, or we will hurt you and keep you here even longer, and your parents won't believe what you tell them we do, because we told them not to!".
You wanna help your kid? Start being a parent again. Thats the only answer... there is no alternative to that.
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Cassandra, former HLA student "guest" and Niles,
Thank you for your responses. I appreciate what you have to say and have been mulling it all over. Yes, as a parent I have definately screwed up and my son is the victim. However, I'm still not convinced that the answer is to bring him home and try again. He has had many, many opportunities, but he either cannot/will not stop abusing drugs and alcohol if it is available. I'm not sure I can agree that substance abuse is not a disease---I think its part of the problem for some people, but it is also caused by emotional pain for sure. The first time I observed my son drinking alcohol ( his father allowed it at a family party) I knew we were going to have a problem (plus, it runs in the family). His reaction was scary-- he loved it way too much and just wanted more. I actually have a fairly liberal attitude towards drugs and alcohol-- I have done my share of indulging, support legalization, donate to Drug Policy Alliance, and don't have an issue with my other kids reasonable consumption as long as they don't drive impaired, but this kid is different. We have to lock up all alcohol when he is around. We also have to hide money--I walk around with my purse when he is with me. And yes, when he can't get his substances of choice he will take whatever--mouthwash, cough syrup, huffing cans of Axe--I constantly find out about new things that can be abused (gas was a new one to me) and we try to clear out these things when he is around. He almost died of alcohol poisoning when he downed a large quantity of vodka he snagged at a relative's house-- it only took about 15 minutes--the doctor said one more shot could have been fatal. He was smoking weed before school most days (and sees nothing wrong with this ---"everyone wakes and bakes"), admits to trying/abusing various other illegal substances, crack,heroin and crystal meth are the only ones he says he hasn't done, and if so, it was just a matter of time.His predisposition to addiction made these especially scary. He admitted to shooting up coke (once). He regularly sold to others and associated with several very frightening dealers, brought them home (!), stole lots of money from lots of people, stole expensive jewelry and pawned it, and probably more that I don't know about. If he was able to use in moderation I would be delighted, life would be great for all of us---we tried that too--but moderate doesn't exist for him, unless moderate includes smoking weed more than once a day and huge amounts of alcohol.Yes, it is almost impossible to stop someone who is determined to get high, but shouldn't we try? We tried 5 different therapists/psychiatrists -- he didn't really respond to them. We tried every punishment/reward we could come up with. We had him go to meetings, found him a sponsor, took him to visit jail, had family member recovering addicts talk to him, anything I could think of. And yes, I'm not terribly impressed with the success rate of any substance abuse program. I readily admit my failures as a parent, but I think he knows he is loved and even if he doesn't feel it now someday he will understand that we ran out of parenting options. It may sound like BS to some of you, but I truly believe that this kid would end up dead or in jail. Maybe that prospect has lost its significance since its tossed around with impunity, but as a parent who believed it was a real possibility, keeping him safe or at least safer was the best I could do.
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If he was able to use in moderation I would be delighted,
I usually try and remain respectful for as long as possible but in this case I'm going to have to make an exception. Lady you're an idiot. With your permissive attitude of course your son was bound to become an addict. You can't allow him to use something you know to be potentially addictive (espically coupled with your family history) and then punish him when he becomes an addict.
"Now Johnny, you know I only alow you to use blow on weekends, never on a school night."
You need to wake up. Meanwhile of course all your kid is learning at HLA is new ways to hide his drug use from you and new things to get high off of.
My advice is for you to pull your kid and place him in a wilderness program, one that you actually look into and can verify with absolute certainity is safe and obeying the law. Keep him there until he gets his head straight and then apologize for setting him on this path to begin with.
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If he was able to use in moderation I would be delighted,
I usually try and remain respectful for as long as possible but in this case I'm going to have to make an exception. Lady you're an idiot. With your permissive attitude of course your son was bound to become an addict. You can't allow him to use something you know to be potentially addictive (espically coupled with your family history) and then punish him when he becomes an addict.
"Now Johnny, you know I only alow you to use blow on weekends, never on a school night."
I want you to wake up. Meanwhile of course all your kid is learning at HLA is new ways to hide his drug use from you and new things to get high off of.
My advice is for you to pull your kid and place him in a wilderness program, one that you actually look into and can verify with absolute certainity is safe and obeying the law. Keep him there until he gets his head straight and then apologize for setting him on this path to begin with.
Shut the fuck up you pissy little prick!!
Diane, I'm sorry you're going through this. I indulge myself, I'm probably one of the most liberal people here and I believe that the vast majority of parents with supposedly out of control teens are overreacting, but I also get that there are those that can't handle them. I have no idea if you're son is one of those or not but I get that you're scared. The behaviors you're describing are terrifying.
That being said, it makes you easy prey for the cultists out there and I believe HLA is a dangerous one. I don't have the answer for you...there are more qualified people here to maybe at least point you in some different directions but I wanted you to know that not all of us, from either side of the pro/anti program debate are assholes and dismissive of parental issues. I was in a program for two years so I know the damage it does but I also have two grown children now and as I've said many times before, my oldest put me through hell for a number of years. Thankfully, she's doing well now.
Good luck. It ain't an easy job.
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My PM to RB....
I'm sorry, I flew off the handle. I just get so irritated with you sometimes. You're such a smart guy and you've got a lot to say but you alientate these people right off the bat. I know most of them are clueless assholes, really I do but over the last years that I've been on here, and after going through a few years of hell with my own program and hell with raising my two kids I also get that some of these parents genuinely are scared....whether or not they have reason to be. If we have any hope of changing some of their minds it doesn't make sense to attack them right out of the gate. She didn't come across to me like Karen or SHH...she seemed pretty genuine in her intent.
I'm all for blasting the shit out of the ST people, you've seen me do it plenty but I'd at least like for them to have a chance before we unload both barrells at them.
I really am sorry I flew off the handle. I'm gonna post this in the thread.
Peace.
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Cassandra, former HLA student "guest" and Niles,
Thank you for your responses. I appreciate what you have to say and have been mulling it all over.
Dianne, you're more than welcome. Thank you for not copping out and taking the 'experts' mollifying assurance that it's all the fault of that fucked up little prick who won't accept their 'help'. As a program vet and deserter, it sort of makes up for a little bit of that whenever I see a parent break from the herd like that. It gives me hope.
Yes, as a parent I have definately screwed up and my son is the victim.
Well, I only brought that into it to say 'yeah, me too, we all do'. Now quit flogging yourself and let's try and move onto hopefully something useful.
However, I'm still not convinced that the answer is to bring him home and try again. He has had many, many opportunities, but he either cannot/will not stop abusing drugs and alcohol if it is available.
Well, I don't think you really have that much influence, far less control over if and how much your kid gets high. Sounds like your kid is having a very, very difficult time and your only choice is whether he has to deal with it with you on his side or as an enemy.
Yes, it is almost impossible to stop someone who is determined to get high, but shouldn't we try?
No, I honestly don't think so. If I were in your shoes, honestly I'd encourage him to stick with the cannabis as many times a day as need be simply because it's safer than any drug known to man. You simply can't kill yourself with the stuff. Just ask Al Robison.
Now here's what I think is the nut of the issue. I'm going to be a little harsh here because I'm just so fucking angry about it all and without apology. But I'm not mad at you or my mother or 'the authorities' or any individual or group. Just incredibly frustrated but helpless to keep slamming my head against this brick wall, hoping one or the other will finally crack and have done with it one of these times. So here goes.
We tried 5 different therapists/psychiatrists -- he didn't really respond to them.
Oh yes he did! Maybe not in any way that you or the pshrink or your son or anyone else would have liked. But for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and pshrinks have a way of pushing anyone's buttones--after all, that's what they went to school to learn how to do. They're just, imho, quite clueless to the fact that they really don't know what they're doing or what the results will be.
We tried every punishment/reward we could come up with. We had him go to meetings, found him a sponsor, took him to visit jail, had family member recovering addicts talk to him, anything I could think of. And yes, I'm not terribly impressed with the success rate of any substance abuse program. I readily admit my failures as a parent, but I think he knows he is loved and even if he doesn't feel it now someday he will understand that we ran out of parenting options. It may sound like BS to some of you, but I truly believe that this kid would end up dead or in jail. Maybe that prospect has lost its significance since its tossed around with impunity, but as a parent who believed it was a real possibility, keeping him safe or at least safer was the best I could do.
Well, now again I can't blame you or my parents or any other well intended person for going along with the conventional wisdom, but that's enough to drive ya ta drinkin!
Like my friend Anne, I also spent a couple of years in a program and then had a world of trouble w/ my oldest daughter, who's now 22 and doing quite well for herself [whew!]. But I can't take credit for any of that except for one thing I think I did right. I knew when I was licked. I didn't know it because I'm so wise and smart 'n all. I knew it because I had been on the receiving end of so much 'help' when I was a young woman and, after awhile, it just became painfully obvious that I was making the same damned mistake my parents had.
Unlike Anne, my family had been in the cult for almost a decade before I landed up in a program. You'd a thunk I was the straightest damned kid there ever was, what with all the open meetings and my mother being a virtuoso at stepcraft `n all. And really I was towing a pretty straight line. My sole focus in life from the time I was about 9 or 10 was on NOT getting put in a program as my elder brothers and sisters had been. The trouble is that no human being, especially a kid, could possibly be straight enough to meet the unrealistic, simplistic and harsh standards of that fucked up cult. So I just stuffed it. I just tried to pretend that I had none of those troubling needs and emotions that normal kids go through. I thought I could just wait, tow the line and finally start being myself once I was safely past the age of majority. I'd just be a perfect little Seedling robot in the mean time. It didn't work out so well. I never did get into drugs much, just dabbled w/ pot and beer once in awhile and my rents never even knew about that, I don't think. But I was incredibly lonely, depressed and pretty near suicidal from the effort. Naturally, because they'd been in the cult for so long and completely brainwashed into the cult world view, it was a simple equation for them; any teenager who was depressed and withdrawn must, necessarily, be a druggie. Solution? Why, the Program, of course!!!
Fuck!
Sorry, yeah, I am angry and frustrated. But again, I don't blame you for listening to all of the best advice available to you. And I don't blame the people giving all this fucked up advice, either. They're well intended, if extremely obtuse. I believe that if there's a worse idea going than locking people up for unauthorized euphoria it's probably locking them up in close proximity to a bunch of well intended mindfuckers bent on helping them even if it kills them. I had that as an email signature for awhile, but it was too long, too little understood and made me most unpopular with a lot of my former friends in the drug policy reform movement. Especially that sanctimonious asshole, Richard Lake. I probably would still be contributing time and volunteer effort to MAPInc if they hadn't hitched their wagon so solidly to the 'treatment not incarceration' canard.
Anyway, at a certain point I realized that my daughter had had just about all the 'help' she could stand from me, any more was not going to do anything but further alienate her. So I quit trying to help her. I did just what my dad had done for me; I called a truce and stuck by it.
I would suggest you do the same. That means you have to accept that, no matter what you do or don't do, there are no guarantees. Your son might figure things out and be alright or not. But I guarantee that programs like HLA based on Synanon methods are NOT helpful! If there's anything you can do to be of real assistance to him you'll have to convince him that you'll never, ever try a stunt like that again.
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Cassandra, former HLA student "guest" and Niles,
Thank you for your responses. I appreciate what you have to say and have been mulling it all over. Yes, as a parent I have definately screwed up and my son is the victim. However, I'm still not convinced that the answer is to bring him home and try again. He has had many, many opportunities, but he either cannot/will not stop abusing drugs and alcohol if it is available. I'm not sure I can agree that substance abuse is not a disease---I think its part of the problem for some people, but it is also caused by emotional pain for sure. The first time I observed my son drinking alcohol ( his father allowed it at a family party) I knew we were going to have a problem (plus, it runs in the family). His reaction was scary-- he loved it way too much and just wanted more. I actually have a fairly liberal attitude towards drugs and alcohol-- I have done my share of indulging, support legalization, donate to Drug Policy Alliance, and don't have an issue with my other kids reasonable consumption as long as they don't drive impaired, but this kid is different. We have to lock up all alcohol when he is around. We also have to hide money--I walk around with my purse when he is with me. And yes, when he can't get his substances of choice he will take whatever--mouthwash, cough syrup, huffing cans of Axe--I constantly find out about new things that can be abused (gas was a new one to me) and we try to clear out these things when he is around. He almost died of alcohol poisoning when he downed a large quantity of vodka he snagged at a relative's house-- it only took about 15 minutes--the doctor said one more shot could have been fatal. He was smoking weed before school most days (and sees nothing wrong with this ---"everyone wakes and bakes"), admits to trying/abusing various other illegal substances, crack,heroin and crystal meth are the only ones he says he hasn't done, and if so, it was just a matter of time.His predisposition to addiction made these especially scary. He admitted to shooting up coke (once). He regularly sold to others and associated with several very frightening dealers, brought them home (!), stole lots of money from lots of people, stole expensive jewelry and pawned it, and probably more that I don't know about. If he was able to use in moderation I would be delighted, life would be great for all of us---we tried that too--but moderate doesn't exist for him, unless moderate includes smoking weed more than once a day and huge amounts of alcohol.Yes, it is almost impossible to stop someone who is determined to get high, but shouldn't we try? We tried 5 different therapists/psychiatrists -- he didn't really respond to them. We tried every punishment/reward we could come up with. We had him go to meetings, found him a sponsor, took him to visit jail, had family member recovering addicts talk to him, anything I could think of. And yes, I'm not terribly impressed with the success rate of any substance abuse program. I readily admit my failures as a parent, but I think he knows he is loved and even if he doesn't feel it now someday he will understand that we ran out of parenting options. It may sound like BS to some of you, but I truly believe that this kid would end up dead or in jail. Maybe that prospect has lost its significance since its tossed around with impunity, but as a parent who believed it was a real possibility, keeping him safe or at least safer was the best I could do.
I don't really comment much on here, but had to interject (sp?) with this one. Now I am not all against programs in general, because I have been to some that have done some good, and others that have only done harm (ahem...). So don't think my response is just because I don't think kids should ever be in a treatment environment.
But please... If your son truly has this bad of an addiction problem, and it is truly as bad as you've represented it, then HLA is NO place for him. I didn't even have drug problems, and still managed to have a good time every once and a while with "contraband". If I could get it, having no true drive or desire to attain drugs (and honestly no real savvy with it either) then imagine what your son, who very obviously has the mind of an addict and the means to make things happen, will be able to do there.
The supervision is a joke, the addictions program is a one-size-fits-all mentality with a stupid rating system as to "how addicted you truly are." And I promise you, I've seen what real support systems should look like. My mother is a 17 yr recovering alcoholic, so a lot of my childhood was spend in the back of a church basement at her meetings when she couldn't find a babysitter. I've seen people genuinely leaning on eachother for their very survival, and trust me... That just is NOT there at HLA. Someone else said it best, they've spread themselves way too thin, and addictions treatment is, in my opinion, their worst area.
So please, find somewhere that can truly help your son... Maybe a treatment center directly geared for kids with addictions, or as RB said, a wilderness program. I went to a wilderness program in Utah, and it was a great experience. But HLA is definitely not appropriate for your son. It very possibly will do more harm than good.
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Why are people recommending a wilderness program on Fornits? Your kids will most assuredly hate it, and it'll remind them how much they want to be back home and on drugs (and now they have a new reason- to forget the things done to them in wilderness!). If you want to break every bond you've ever had with your kid, sending him out into the wilderness with a bunch of sadistic "counselors" is a wonderful way of accomplishing this. It's just another idea that sounds good on paper if you're stupid, but doesn't work in 95% of cases, and no, your kid will not be the exception.
Also, keep your kids the hell out of Utah, period. There's no oversight. Dehydration is a great way to get your kid killed.
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The supervision is a joke, the addictions program is a one-size-fits-all mentality with a stupid rating system as to "how addicted you truly are." .
As a parent who had a kid at HLA a bunch of years ago I have to say something about this outrageously bogus "rating" system. There are 10 or so questions that the kid has to answer. On the basis of those answers, the level of addiction is determined. Just think about how crazy this all is. We were told by those assholes that our son was a "severe addict" with practically no hope of ever being off drugs and/or alcohol. They do this to scare the parents to death, and it works.
Oh, and did I mention that the person administering the "test" was "Doctor" Clay Erickson. He had us all convinced our kids were addicts just like he had us convinced he was a real doctor.
And yes, according to my son, it was easy enough to get drugs, alcohol, etc on campus. Mostly from staff.
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No shit!
Look, folks, it's real simple. You simply cannot pay someone to raise your kids better than you can. You can pay someone to break them down and make them pretend they're all better. But ask some of us old heads who have been through it. Even most of the ones who have towed the line for decades so often talk about nightmares, phobias and all kinds of trouble owing to the trauma they suffered as teenagers.
Now, as frustrated and angry as I still am over the whole thing, I don't think the people who run these places and who staff them or who send their kids there ever intended or do intend to do any harm. Ask TSW. He used to be staff. Hell, ask my sister in law, she was on staff too. They all, except for a small minority of sadistic assholes who knowingly get off on the shit, thought they were doing The Right Thing® But, just like routine lobotomies and witch burning, they were wrong. Now we're here to tell you, yup, shaw nuff, that conflicted gut feeling we all had from time to time (some of us constantly) that it was an horrific evil, GO WITH THAT! Or suffer the consequences of those too fucking stubborn or stupid to learn from history.
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To give some background info on why I recommended a wilderness program. Parents of students in treatment will 99% of the time NOT be persuaded by anyone that it's wrong to send them away. My parents didn't get it, and most other students parents I've talked to still are under the impression that what their doing is best for their child. So for me to sit here and say "Just pull your kid! Bring him home!" will more than likely just have those parents who desperately need the validation that what they did for their child was the best decision skim right over my post. So yes, ideally, I want children home with their parents and the parents to to the harder thing by raising them themselves. BUT in most cases, that wont happen. So PERSONALLY (based on my experience alone in the 3 seperate programs I went to) the wilderness program was the least harming. Now yes, parents should not take the "lesser or two evils" mentality for their kids, but lets be honest... Most of them do. So my recommendation was based on the fact that these parents probably wont wise up until much later in their child's life, and that if their GOING to stick them in another program, then from my experience alone (which is all I can convey), the wilderness program was the "best" (lesser of the evils) that I endured.
Plus, (and this really only applies to my situation) my parents were in the middle of a nasty 20 year long court battle, and going home would NOT have been the best for me. I would have been put back into a manipulative, extremely hurtful environment that was created by my own parents. Neither of them really had my best interest at heart, and I was a tool to hurt one another. It was so bad that even the court decided to not let either of them represent my brother and I in the case, but to appoint us a guardian ad laudem (sp??) as an objective 3rd party entity. I don't know where the best place for me would have been, it definitely wasn't home, it definitely wasnt in treatment, and my parents were definitely not open to sending me to a regular boarding school. So programs were just kinda where I bode my time until I was old enough to go to college (17, 4 years after I entered my first program).
This parent obviously isn't open to bringing him back home, so thats why I recommended the wilderness. It was just the least hurtful place I went to.
But whatever, I don't know if any of you will understand this, and still think that I'm just blindly supporting BM schools. Oh well.
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I completely agree with most of what lacey has said. I too am a former hla student, and also a Utah wilderness program student. I think that wilderness is definitely less harmful and more effective than a TBS type program. I was at second nature wilderness in 2002 before attending HLA and i feel it really helped me. I still keep in contact with both students and staff from the program. However, HLA was a very negative experience for me and my family. Having never been around cocaine going into the program it was available to me on several occasions in the short time i was there. Many people would sneak drugs in while returning home from breaks. I ended up leaving HLA 2 months after entering with a black eye and a broken nose which i received when a staff member decided to introduce my face to the ground for refusing to split firewood on restrictions. My parents were told i had gotten into a fight with another student.
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Who was the staff member that broke your nose?
Did you get medical treatment?
Did your counselors know about this? What did they do?
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Another shining example of the qualified and caring nature of HLA staff members.
My own recomendation towards wilderness programs also has to do with my own experience. I found it to be less of a cookie cutter therapy aproach and more centered on allowing the individual to remove all the distractions from their life and focus on their own needs, not deal with a bunch of greedy quacks trying to force bullshit therapy on us.
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Who was the staff member that broke your nose?
Did you get medical treatment?
Did your counselors know about this? What did they do?
Rob Hyde, while I was on super restrictions for trying to run away. I also received a chipped tooth. Did I get medical treatment? Not so much. They (Ted mcallister and Rob) had someone drive a gator down and drop off a small first aid kit, which i never even saw until i stopped refusing to split wood. I never saw a dentist even after i asked. I also never saw my counselors again after the incident. Several days later i ran away from the school and met up with my dad. It was late at night. He took me back to the school immediately and we sat down with a man I had never met before (whose name i can't remember) Ted, and Lee Parham. That is when they tried to convince my dad the story of the fight with another student. They also told my dad that I would be going to ridge creek. When he said I would no longer be a student at HLA, they changed their mind about ridge creek. They said everything they could to try to convince him to keep me there. Every word that came out of my mouth was followed by them convincing my dad i was lying and just trying to manipulate him. When they figured out i was leaving for sure Ted went off, saying, "He is a fucked up kid, if you take him home he will destroy your family, he needs to be in a lockdown facility" I went home the next day and began seeing a counselor. He told my parents that Hidden Lake did nothing but harm me. I returned back to my old high school repeating the year. HLA refused to give me any school credits. I still managed to graduate early and I am now on my second year of college. My parents and I were able to work through everything and we talk every day. I go to the same school now as a student I knew while attending HLA. That person came up to me recently saying.. "didnt't rob hyde break your nose?" That person also told me that he was fired from HLA shortly after that.. I do not know if that is true.
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I used to work there. I probably at least knew who you were. I am truly sorry that that happened to you. Knowing Rob Hyde the way I do, I have no reason not to believe what you are saying. He is one sick individual. I am glad that you have made something of yourself and that you get along with your family.
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I used to work there. I probably at least knew who you were. I am truly sorry that that happened to you. Knowing Rob Hyde the way I do, I have no reason not to believe what you are saying. He is one sick individual. I am glad that you have made something of yourself and that you get along with your family.
Sooooo.... was he fired or what? WTF was he doing working there at all???
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From what I remember, he worked there for a long time. 7 years I think? He was insane. And also made the girls feel just as uncomfortable as Danny PERVel. I'm not at all suprised at this ex-students account of the incident.
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i saw rob walk around with his camelbak (that backpack/water bottle thing) in a kind effort to re-hydrate several students. but one sick little detail is that the females he approached that were down in the sit up position, were asked to close thier eyes as he pervesely stood over them and squirted water not only in thier mouths, but on thier faces and necks, with a grin on his face. he then asked me i wanted some and i just shook me head in disgust. i saw him at walmart on a post-grad shopping trip, about eight months before i left, and he stated that he was a pro-b officer.
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Who was the staff member that broke your nose?
Did you get medical treatment?
Did your counselors know about this? What did they do?
Rob Hyde, while I was on super restrictions for trying to run away. I also received a chipped tooth. Did I get medical treatment? Not so much. They (Ted mcallister and Rob) had someone drive a gator down and drop off a small first aid kit, which i never even saw until i stopped refusing to split wood. I never saw a dentist even after i asked. I also never saw my counselors again after the incident. Several days later i ran away from the school and met up with my dad. It was late at night. He took me back to the school immediately and we sat down with a man I had never met before (whose name i can't remember) Ted, and Lee Parham. That is when they tried to convince my dad the story of the fight with another student. They also told my dad that I would be going to ridge creek. When he said I would no longer be a student at HLA, they changed their mind about ridge creek. They said everything they could to try to convince him to keep me there. Every word that came out of my mouth was followed by them convincing my dad i was lying and just trying to manipulate him. When they figured out i was leaving for sure Ted went off, saying, "He is a fucked up kid, if you take him home he will destroy your family, he needs to be in a lockdown facility" I went home the next day and began seeing a counselor. He told my parents that Hidden Lake did nothing but harm me. I returned back to my old high school repeating the year. HLA refused to give me any school credits. I still managed to graduate early and I am now on my second year of college. My parents and I were able to work through everything and we talk every day. I go to the same school now as a student I knew while attending HLA. That person came up to me recently saying.. "didnt't rob hyde break your nose?" That person also told me that he was fired from HLA shortly after that.. I do not know if that is true.
glad to hear you're on the right track my friend. hyde was there for like my first 5 months, and i was enrolled in jan 04.
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i was also told by a fantastic and bona fide staff member, the his fiancee left him because he beat her. piece of shit.
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So, we know the sex thing is still ongoing at HLA.
Have they found a solution to their "drug problem"?
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Kid are huffing and cheeking medicine like Adderall and then chopping it up and snorting it and lots of other ways of getting high. It is disgusting how creative these kids can find ways to catch a buzz. :(
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When I was there last year, the students got the stuff when they went horse back riding...from the son there at the stables.
Not reported to parents as it would have made HLA look bad.
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A bunch of kids I knew got smokes from people at the soup kitchen.
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oh about drugs....this has been happening since HLA opened and they still havnt caught on. there are a number of plants which may be grown inconspicuously which provide effects. personally i brought some seeds in to the school (shoes) and grew these plants on lower left, and reaped the harvest. morning glories were really popular, calamus root and valerian root was nice. there were also some hops here and there, but it was somewhat useless. i also grew jimson weed and datura for fun, and just in case i feel like giving my counselors a psychotic episode. i never took any of the jw or datura for obvious reasons, but i know one kid's curiosity really took hold. he decided to eat some and for the next week his eyes were completely dilated and he was acting like a maniac he got sent to RCI for his behavior which he did not remember or understand. but the morning glories = nice. to this day they provide me glory at home every fall.
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a friend of mine was once on restrictions in the lodge, cleaning up. she picked up a styrofoam cup and found a joint just sitting there. go figure what she did with it..... she got caught but they never figured out where it came from.
there are many loopholes in the squat and cough routine. one can tape it under the balls, or even hold it in their hand their entire time if they are slick. there's also the anal technique along with the string n swallow (tie a baloon to a thread, swallow, and then tie the string to a molar. stuffed animals also provided smuggled goodies. some kids are just ingenious. i know one person paid a doc at home to write a not saying he is allergic to the deoderant they provide and should be able to bring his own. he brought his own, execpt instead of deoderant the bottom half of the sticks were filled with weed, papers, and lighters. in another case an ingenious kid rigged his advair inhaler with cocaine. he took out the little thing with the premeasured doses, made his own thing out of the bubbles in bubble wrap and cardboard, and filled the bubbles with with blow. every morning the nurse handed him his cocaine filled inhaler. of course, inhaling powder isnt like snorting it, but it still works.
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What nurse?
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once upon a time there was a nurse. robert, we've run into this problem with you before, and i wont explain it again. things on this board do not only pertain to the current situation at hla, but also to the past 5+ years too.
but yeah, you're right. what nurse?