Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: try another castle on December 28, 2006, 11:04:00 PM
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A few weeks ago, my therapist was telling me that during his weekly meetings with his colleagues, one of the therapists asked about TBS facilities. She apparently has clients who are parents and were considering sending their daughter to a place. The therapist asked if anyone in the room had any info on any of these facilities. My therapist raised his hand and say "Oh yes! I do." and he proceeded to tell her about my experience with CEDU. (What he knew at the time. I've been telling him more recently.) He made a point to mention how negative these places are.
When he told me about it a few weeks ago, I suggested that he recommend Szalavitz's book to the other therapist's clients. We followed up a week later, and he did, indeed recommend the book to her. During that time, I was giving him more info about the industry as a whole.
Today, I asked him if he had heard from his colleague about what had happened. He said "It was frightening. It went down just like you said it would. The parents went ahead and hired an escort to come get her at 5am, to take her away on a plane, to a place in Utah (he didn't have the facility's name offhand). They can't see her right away, and when she does come to visit, she will have to have an escort with her. And the place is outrageously expensive. They are going to have to take out a second mortgage on their house." He was obviously shaken by it. Of course, this sounds familiar to all of us, but he was freaked out.
I asked him "Did you tell her about the book?" He said "Absolutely! She recommended it to them, but they sent her off anyway. They probably didn't read it, or didn't want to read it."
I said "Did she mention by any chance why the parents wanted her to be sent off, anyway?" (not like there is any valid reason to be sent to one of these places) He said "Based on what she said, they simply sounded happy and relieved to be alone finally."
I said "So essentially, they didn't want to be parents anymore? So the kid has to suffer?"
He shook his head sadly and said "It sounds that way."
Anyway, I left him a message about the isaccorp.org site, so his colleague can educate herself on the specific facilities and their abuses. It sounds like the parents are true program parents, though, in the sense that they have totally bought into the whole sales pitch. But at least the therapist can learn more about this shit, especially if she is going to continue to treat these people. Yeah, I guess I should have mentioned the website first instead of the book when the subject was initially broached, websites are less cumbersome to navigate through for people who are seeking quick answers.
Maybe I'm tired. Maybe it's lack of sleep. I read about kids being sent off all the time on this forum. I don't know this kid, or her parents, but for some reason, it upset me. I rarely cry. Even when I try to cry, I normally can't. I don't even cry about my own experiences at CEDU, so I don't know why this hit me weird. I mean, it's not like I was naive enough to even think that my suggestions, two persons removed, no less, would have had much of an impact. Good lord, I'm not that idealistic, and I'm not Mr. Interventionist, but I felt obligated to sure as fuck say something about it. I guess what hit me was thinking about what fresh hell this kid is going through right now. Why her and not all of the other stories I've read and heard about? Dunno.
Fucking whatever. I'm going to bed.
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Just means you're still in touch with your inherent humanity.
Been there, done that. I cried and raged for a couple of days when I heard my neighbor had been killed at Skyline Journey.
Was my argument against the industry months prior, too weak? Didn't want to overwhelm the woman. It's hard to tell the truth without sounding like an over-reacting fanatic.
Oh well... we do what we can do, and hope for the best.
Rest well.
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I gotta learn to detach.
That weird tingly feeling you get in your chest that turns into feeling like your chest is hollow, then your heart races, then you want to beat people's faces in....
I mean I know this shit happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME, but when I hear about specifics, and it turns real, and not just a statistic, I think of what that kid went through, and is going through, and will KEEP going through while I fruitlessly try to get through to people...
And then ST, KiD/Charly, lon, and all the other FUCKS come into my head and I wish I could forget I ever knew about this.
But I can't. I have a conscience. I'm all too human. I'm too compassionate! But what have I done so far?
Oh, I got a few parents to pull kids from a program, prolly warned a bunch through what I've done on askquestions and other stuff I can't talk about..., but its not enough. This still happens. Lazy fucks still put their kids through hell because its the easy way out... its *like locking something you don't want to see behind a door and forgetting its there, even if that person is suffering, just because you can't handle it. Her own parents...
... times a thousand. Times thousands, yearly. The machine sucks them in, and spits them out. Hopelessness turns into a breakdown turns into brainwashing turns into a regression turns into an outburst turns into a PTSD-riddled young adult, and they end up here, and wonder why I'm here too, and here we are, and hopefully they can get their life back on track, or maybe they stay and try to help... but all we do is talk, but do so little.
Maybe they might read that book. Maybe a conscience might actually start to assert itself, Jiminy Cricket! Maybe Lon's nose will get really long! Maybe they'll run out of money. Maybe the girl will work the program and get out without being too fucked up. Maybe she'll resist and get it bad. Maybe I'll fucking snap. Who knows?
I just know I either have to turn off my give a fuck or DO SOMETHING, because the way it is now can't continue any longer, and I really do not know how people can be so inhuman to their own children, and why this nation is so apathetic about its own children collectively.
Happy fucking new years.
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@castle
There wasn't anything more you could have said or done. The parents sound like real shits in this case. Unfortunately the kid has to suffer for this.
@Deborah
Your neighbor will have to live with her son/daughter's blood on her hands for the rest of her life. There isn't anything to be said. She will suffer for what she has done. I would not feel so harshly had you not warned her... But she heard the risks, and did nothing.
.....................
Yeah i too have an experience with this. After i got back from Bmark, I started telling my parents about what it was like there. My mom never wanted to listen... "too stressful" she says. So i didn't force her to hear the details of what happened. "tell it to Dr. ********" (the shrink) she would say.
So i kept silent. A few months later, i find out one of her friend's daughters was sent to a program... I was furious. She didn't even try to talk her out of it. The girl was suspected of smoking pot, and was hanging around with the Goths. That was enough to label her as "out of control"
And my parents invited that bitch mother over for christmas dinner that year. I bit my tongue, (my parents made me promise i wouldn't say anything, that it wasn't my business)... She's probably still in program.
So I keep wondering, if i had said something to the lady, might it have made a difference?
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I'm really amazed you can do that.
I would have murdered the bitch then and there. No custody, no money, no program and the girl is out.
I seriously do not know how you can not dropkick your mom and tell her to grow up and accept what happened to her own flesh and blood at the LEAST, and do the normal human thing and warn someone else about this.
I really think I'm about to lose it. Ugh.
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Niles, If you can save one kid from being sent to one of these corporate gulags, you have done more than you will ever know.
Yes, it hurts when try as we might to show parents the "dark side" of the troubled teen industry, they still turn a deaf ear and a blind eye.
But this pain we feel serves a purpose. It reminds us why we are here (toughlove hurts) and why we will stay here as long as it takes to keep saving kids one at a time.
:nworthy:
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I'm really amazed you can do that.
I would have murdered the bitch then and there. No custody, no money, no program and the girl is out.
I seriously do not know how you can not dropkick your mom and tell her to grow up and accept what happened to her own flesh and blood at the LEAST, and do the normal human thing and warn someone else about this.
Eeh. She's in denial. My dad thinks the place should be shut down outight but my mom won't even read the information i give her. She refuses to take a look at anything i print off for her. "get over it" I'm told on a daily basis. Or "Your wasting your time with this crap" (in reference to my website). It's funny... she doesn't say that when i play video games.
She refuses to listen to me about my experiences there. She says it's too much stress for her. She says I was "out of control" and "we didn't know what to do with you". I was "dressing in all black" and "involved in that Wicca crap", and "doing drugs" (she had no proof at the time). I never smoked while in my parents house before getting sent to program. period. ( i smoked at parties sometimes outside of the house but never inside ). The main reason I was out of control was becuase they found out i was bi... and that really threw them through the roof.(religious types)
Now you understand why i tolerate Karen so well. My mom is far worse.
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@psy, I see. Guess if youre used to worse, it's easier to deal with
@the anon - yeah, but what about those thousands more who go through this shit, and the millions who give me that "duhr" face when this is exposed to them, who don't care and do nothing?
I can't just shrug that off! I can't just ignore that! It eats away from the inside until you want to just throw your own existance away for the CHANCE you might put this to an end until your mind comes back and says no matter how much you WANT to do something, you can't do anything but ruin your own life and any potential help you might be able to lend later.
And that would be stupid, and pointless. Depending on my career path, I might stand to do a lot of tangible good, and actually take action and see something happen. Or, at the least, make enough money to bankroll some lawsuits and try to get some do-good celebs to lend their mouth and their face to this.
::bangin:: The only reason "patience" doesn't work on my mind is that there are kids going through this shit... right now while you try to make ME feel better, when they need it so much more. If it was only getting justice on the people who did this, if they were not hurting anyone anymore, I could be patient.
But honestly, I have got to figure SOMETHING out, be it how to detach, or how to get the ball rolling again. It's just too much to have in my mind without some means of moving on.
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This post struck a chord with me.When i first stumbled across this industry I tohuhgt i could not possbly be this bad and that thhere must be some element of crazy conspiricy theory. I cant tell you how many times I have cried for what kids have gone through.
The tragedy to me is that it seems for every stepbitch, lazy divorcee or hysterical fanatic, there is a parent who is naive, or frantic with worry for a kid who seems to be in real trouble or who is not that confident in their own abilities. While some responsibility does lay with these parents, i often feel sad for them because they were vulnerable to a powerful industry which knew all the right buttons to press and who has what seems like a simple solution to a complex issue. if i were such a person perhaps I would not ask too many questions of my kid when they claim they owe their life to the school. Perhaps I also would not want to feel the guilt of hearing about how it did not go so well from a kid who felt it ruined them.
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I find it difficult to believe that parents would send a child to a program just because they didn't want to parent anymore. Call me naive, but that is just plain outside the realm of my understanding.
What did come to my mind while reading this post was that this family is probably in some respects a product of our culture.
Think about what many people do with their babies from birth. Put them in daycare so that they can chase the American dream. They are institutionalized from the crib for crying out loud (no pun intended). I don't mean the single moms who have to work to put food on the table or the 2 couple "working poor" who have to both work to pay the rent for the small 2 bedroom apartment. I have trouble with the middle class family who wants the bigger, better home and 2 SUV's in the garage. Who wants the fab trips to the Caribbean every spring break. And the latest electronic toys. Who pays the price? Their kids who are stuck in daycare and are being raised by perfect strangers.
Parents want year round school calenders. Keep the kiddies in the institution of school more days a year. Rob them of the joy of summer vacation. How about letting the school system feed them breakfast, lunch and offering an after-school program ... so mom and dad can stay at work longer. In junior high and high school keep them to a seven period class schedule, and then keep them in after-school sporting programs until after dinner time.
Or when there are minor legal infractions incarcerate them in our new fangled juvenile care facilities (our city just built a multi million dollar state of the art facility).
Get my point? Sending this girl off to a program was probably NOT an out of the blue random decision. As a culture we endorse institutionalizing our kids from the get go. As much as the decision to place an adolescent enrages most ... I don't understand (given the probable history) why is so surprises us.
Thats my $.02 on that.
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I think it surprises people because suddenly reality hits them in the face and the rhetoric gets thrown out the window. "You mean America really isn'tthe land of the free, who'd a thunk it?"
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Maybe the parents will come to their senses when they get to talk to their child. They might have bought the TBS's website bullshit, but I hope they have the sense to believe their child if she tells them about abuse and don't buy into the "manipulation" bullshit. At Peninsula Village, the parents' handbook says not to believe your child if he says "my peer is a violent psycho". Fuck that, he could be telling the truth. (See PV homicidal alumnus. Andrew Klepper, a kid who sodomized a prostitute with a baseball bat, bunked up along with kids who suffered from depression and post traumatic stress. So yeah, never discount the stories, these facilities will bend the rules and take violent psychos, just like HLA did.)
I don't know how a parent could stand any lengthy separation from their kid, regardless of the circumstances. It drove us half-mad not knowing how our girl was doing. My wife literally didn't know if her daughter was alive or dead and went weeks with no news. We warned the biological father about Peninsula Village, what a vile shithole it is, and sent him here to read up. He referred to Fornits folk as "organized malcontents" and dismissed anything that went against PV. It took six months to get our girl out of there, and Peninsula blamed my wife, claiming she and her daughter were in "collusion", and fought treatment. Jesus. Whatever.
Warn the gullible when you can, but don't torture yourself over the decisions of the ignorant. Some parents know exactly how these programs work, they want somebody else to do the kinds of shit they would be thrown under the jail for. Send anonymous letters with info about abuses at the facility where their kid is. They'll throw them away, but eventually curiosity might take over.
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I find it difficult to believe that parents would send a child to a program just because they didn't want to parent anymore. Call me naive, but that is just plain outside the realm of my understanding.
Keep in mind TS that I am getting this information third hand. I have no idea the true motivations of the parents. It just struck a nerve to hear that they were finally happy to be alone. I honestly don't know if my dad and stepmom felt that way when I was shipped off, but I'm sure they were relieved to finally be able to sleep with their bedroom door unlocked. (For some reason, they thought I was going to try to kill them, which is the silliest thing in the world, because I am a total pussy.)
And yes, I agree that this wasn't some random decision to send her off. It rarely is.
Maybe the parents will come to their senses when they get to talk to their child. They might have bought the TBS's website bullshit, but I hope they have the sense to believe their child if she tells them about abuse and don't buy into the "manipulation"
I actually made a point of mentioning that to my therapist, to pass on to his colleague. i.e. to be aware that the school is going to tell the parents that their kid is being lying and manipulative if she tells them bad things about the place. Ultimately, I don't know how much she is going to be able to say. She is going to have an escort with her next time she sees them.
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I wonder how they got fooled into thinking she needs one...
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I came pretty close to "needing" one myself. That was going to be "plan B", if the "tricking the kid into getting there" ploy didn't work. (Your parents tell you that you are going up to visit the school and tour the campus. Due to the fact that I had done that with other schools in the past, I was none the wiser. You go up with one parent, and another parent packs all of your shit and comes up separately. Then when you get there, you're told that you are staying.) I remember screaming and pounding on the window of the car, and tried to let myself out while it was moving, as we drove up from Spokane. My Dad told me that if I didn't settle down, they were going to send me to a lock-up facility in the area that CEDU recommended.
I believe most parents who hire escorts do so upon the advice of the facility. CEDU was the one who recommended both the "trick" tactic and the "escort" one if the trick didn't work, to my parents. Mike Parr was the designated CEDU escort at the time, and kids who were brought up by him were known as "Parr babies."
Yeah, this is the first time I've heard of a kid requiring an escort when they see their parents. Normally they just dump the kid off at the place when they first get sent there and that is it.
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Hopefully it won't take too long before they start to realize how fucked up this all is.
All I know is I need some fucking sleep. Ugh.
Fornits needs to form a support group :(
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Yeah, that's all we need. More group therapy. :P
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Eeh. She's in denial. My dad thinks the place should be shut down outight but my mom won't even read the information i give her. She refuses to take a look at anything i print off for her. "get over it" I'm told on a daily basis. Or "Your wasting your time with this crap" (in reference to my website). It's funny... she doesn't say that when i play video games.
She refuses to listen to me about my experiences there. She says it's too much stress for her. She says I was "out of control" and "we didn't know what to do with you". I was "dressing in all black" and "involved in that Wicca crap", and "doing drugs" (she had no proof at the time). I never smoked while in my parents house before getting sent to program. period. ( i smoked at parties sometimes outside of the house but never inside ). The main reason I was out of control was becuase they found out i was bi... and that really threw them through the roof.(religious types)
Now you understand why i tolerate Karen so well. My mom is far worse.
Hrms. I think I would respond to, "Get over it" with, "You're the one living in denial. You're the one who screwed up by the numbers. You get over it."
Maybe not those words, but something short that means the same thing. No rancor, no heat, no opening of the discussion---just a calm, consistent, repetitive contradiction of her denial.
I do strongly suggest using the broken record technique. It works better than many other things at shaking someone out of denial.
Hitler, bless his little genocidal heart and I hope he's burning somewhere, said: "Tell a person a lie often enough and he will begin to believe it."
The Big Lie technique stinks--when someone is pushing lies.
However, it also works equally well with the truth. Particularly if you "stay on message" and "stick with your talking points" and "stay on that sound bite."
Pick a sound bite, three of them at most, and repeat them consistently whenever the subject comes up.
One of my favorite generic ones is, "Your denial is not my problem."
I save this technique for when the situation is very, very serious. I don't use it for casual disagreements---just for big problems where someone's denial is dangerous to others or a very big pain in the butt stressing others' daily lives.
Wanna believe the Earth is flat? Fine, don't care. Wanna believe you're not manic when you're bouncing off the walls, coming on to everybody in sight, talking a mile a minute bouncing from subject to subject, not sleeping, irritable as hell and biting people's heads off, convinced you're the smartest and most talented person on earth (big time grandiosity), spending more money than you have on random useless junk and needing to be rescued---in short, if you're being an overwhelming pain in the butt to everybody around you? Then I care about your denial. Don't really care how you and your doctor deal with it, just as long as you quit being a colossal pain in the butt to your friends, coworkers and family.
Hey, if someone's close to me and they're sick and always needing rescue, I'd really rather see her get better than have to cut her out of my life to protect myself and my other loved ones.
You obviously love your mother. Her denial is equally obviously hurting you. It's worth bringing out the heavy verbal artillery to try to break through. Which doesn't mean being verbally abusive--just annoying in a way that's usually effective. Eventually.
I know the Programs use the soundbite jargon with the Big Lie and use it to hurt people.
As I'm letting my foster daughter know, everybody manipulates other people. We all do it. The important part is how, and when, and why--what ethical limits you place on using those techniques.
"Manipulation" doesn't make you bad, it just makes you human. How, when, and why is what makes the difference between being a good person versus being at best fucked up and at worst a real asshole.
Every good parent manipulates their kid from babyhood through adulthood. We just do it with the end goal of getting a happy, healthy adult, with ethical limits on what techniques we use when, and with enough real love that we put the kid's interests before our own. Genuinely, not in the false-front way the Programs and Program Parents do. Grounding a kid from TV because she didn't do her chores is manipulation. So? We all do it. It's the limits that we set on our use of it that makes the difference between good and bad.
When you're all outside of institutions and free to walk away, the broken record technique is a mild form of coercive persuasion that usually eventually works if you're right, and just makes you a colossal pain in the butt if you're wrong.
It also has the virtue that if you're wrong, your friends and family will get sick of it, gang up, and get through to you. So it has a built in safeguard.
There's not a thing wrong with one person "manipulating" another---as long as the how, when, and why are right. Which takes a great deal of brutal self-honesty.
Julie
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You're right Julie
I spoent so many years trying to tell my mother how it was for me and what she did to me, but she wasn't and still isn't prepared to listen, she'll never admit half the stuff even happened let alone give me some closure on it, so i just came to the conclusion that if she deliberately blocks it out, or won't confront the truth, then she has a weight to bear, not me, she can walk around in happy denial, but I know she has to live with the guilt of knowing I am not happy about her denial, she has hurt her daughter and will continue to do so until the day i die, I can sleep at night, wether she can or not is up to her, she either faces it and helps me to sort it, or she lives with it....but I am not wasting energy on trying to make her, I have a life to be getting on with and I don't need other ppl's problems getting in the way!
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She refuses to listen to me about my experiences there. She says it's too much stress for her. She says I was "out of control" and "we didn't know what to do with you". I was "dressing in all black" and "involved in that Wicca crap", and "doing drugs" (she had no proof at the time). I never smoked while in my parents house before getting sent to program. period. ( i smoked at parties sometimes outside of the house but never inside ). The main reason I was out of control was becuase they found out i was bi... and that really threw them through the roof.(religious types)
Now you understand why i tolerate Karen so well. My mom is far worse.
Did bench mark tell your parents that they could change your sexuality?
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I believe most parents who hire escorts do so upon the advice of the facility. CEDU was the one who recommended both the "trick" tactic and the "escort" one if the trick didn't work, to my parents. Mike Parr was the designated CEDU escort at the time, and kids who were brought up by him were known as "Parr babies."
The "trick" tactic would force me to sue my parents upon my release for fraud, misrepresentation and unlawful imprisonment.
I was considering renting a billboard on the highway that leads to Peninsula Village and having a simple message in bold letters.
YOUR PARENTS HAVE LIED TO YOU, CUZ. PENINSULA AIN'T NO SUMMER CAMP, IT'S A LEVEL 3 LOCKDOWN MINDFUCK UNIT. PLAY THE GAME UNTIL THEY TRUST YOU WITH AN AXE, THEN HACK YOUR WAY OUT AND GO SEE YOUR FOLKS. WON'T THEY BE SHOCKED.
It would have to be a big billboard, I guess...
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Update:
Just met with my therapist. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get the name of the facility. It's a confidentiality violation. (He doesn't know what it is, either.) I assumed this would be the case, so this doesn't surprise me.
That's all.