Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: ehm on March 28, 2003, 02:04:00 PM

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: ehm on March 28, 2003, 02:04:00 PM

We're taking over Iraq! We have dolphins helping us! Good lord we have a shitload of money to do this with. Wow.
Yep, there's killing and death.
Government take Government!
Star Wars or Dune type shit.
Bad guy ? Good guy?
Heck, we have ourselves a War.
War can be sorrowful,yet liberating.
Something our children will be paying for still when they are 20-30somethings or longer.
Is it worth it?
Morli

[ This Message was edited by: Morli on 2003-03-28 11:06 ]

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: kosmonaut on March 28, 2003, 03:10:00 PM

worth of worms right now.  The Arab world is seething with hatred for us because of this invasion.  A little history, approx. 200 yrs worth, shows that they have every right to be pissed off at the West, specifically Britian and the US.  

Oh, and it doesn't help that Bush used the word "crusade" last year in a speech about the middle east.

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on March 28, 2003, 11:41:00 PM

I was against it starting, but now I see no turning back.  I think the coalition is sloppy as shit currently, but pulling it together.  Sloppy on all fronts... the air bombing (not the missles from the ships int he Gulf), the close combat, the humanitarian stuff, the supply lines and the public relations, all off to a rough start.

There are good strategies being spent to the media military analysts.  I sure do hope most of what these analysts are saying is just actually bait, smokescreens or fake-out maneuvers provided by government strategists.

I am glad that there is so much talk about US Imperialism surfacing.  Maybe this will cause the US to voluntarily ban itself from profit-generating involvement afterwards and restrict itself to only giving aid (no receiving). I want to see Dick Cheney's Haliburton company NOT be the ones to repair the oil wells, for example.

I hope Afghanistan is doing ok. I think while it is still "bad" in Afghanistan, it is a whole lot better than I was expecting it would be at this point.  In relation to Afghanistan, I suspect Iraq will do even better after the war.

I hope Iraq is the end of Bush's middle east rampage, unless of course he wants to take action against Israel's 69 UN Resolution violations.  I'm all for that.  Did you know that the U.S. has vetoed 32 times in the UN to take action against Israel's violations?

Even though lots of progress will be made in both Afghanistan and Iraq, someone will rise to power and screw it all up again.  So that's why I just say to hell with these wars.  They're only temporary relief.

David

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2003, 10:15:00 AM

_____Questions you may ask yourself:____

Can we help build a democracy in Iraq?
Who's gonna be left?
Sacrifice for freedom?
Do I want "Super-size?"
Does anyone want to see Saddam gone?
Will iraq be Our 51st state?
Will the state flower be the desert rose?
Has Saddam killed more Iraqis than we have?     Do I want to see his head on a stick?
Would that be sweet?
Am I the only one?

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2003, 12:55:00 PM

On 2003-03-28 20:41:00, JDavid wrote: " Maybe this will cause the US to voluntarily ban itself from profit-generating involvement afterwards and restrict itself to only giving aid (no receiving). I want to see Dick Cheney's Haliburton company NOT be the ones to repair the oil wells, for example.>"

David, I think you are naive.  This war is all about making the world safe for hypocrisy.  Try this Washington Post article for starters
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... l?referrer (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62995-2003Mar31.html?referrer)

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Antigen on April 02, 2003, 04:03:00 PM

On 2003-03-28 20:41:00, JDavid wrote: "I was against it starting, but now I see no turning back.  I think the coalition is sloppy as shit currently, but pulling it together.  Sloppy on all fronts... the air bombing (not the missles from the ships int he Gulf), the close combat, the humanitarian stuff, the supply lines and the public relations, all off to a rough start.

I'm still against the war. I still think that just about all we're accomplishing is to unite the Arab world against us like never before, and that's saying something! The next most important accomplishment, from the POV of those lunatics who concieved and fostered the Program and who now occupy the halls of power, is the total suspension of what was left of our Constitution after 100 years of New Deal Socialism.

Check out the (intentionally) misnamed PATRIOT II (http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,57636,00.html). Once again, that sardonic and frightened little voice in my head is chiding "We're all in the program now!" and I'm sure I liked it better when I was just a little paranoid and the rest of the world was more-or-less OK.

I don't think the military is doing a sloppy job at all. I think they're doing a very good job. I just wish the joint chiefs had maybe lived up to their titles, smoked a little ganga and had a little pow-wow about maybe the proper procedure for responding to an unlawful and wreckless order from the Commander in Thief.

But there they are, halfway around the world, doing what they're trained to do and, on a personal level, for all the right reasons. I think the soldiers believe in what they're doing. For that reason, I can't hold anything against them. And I want them home safe with as little blood as possible on their hands and as few nightmares as possible to haunt them.

I don't think the soldiers have gone in nearly as clueless as most Americans are wrt the outcome or the realistic definition of "surgical strikes". I don't think they had any illusions about zero casualties or a "clean" war. I do think that, if I had to be a POW, I'd rather be an Iraqi in American hands than the other way around. I also hold no illusions about the effects of war on soldiers. I know that some of our guys will snap and turn animal. But not many.

I think they will be as dissilusioned as any Viet Nam vet about the promised outcome; liberty and democracy for all. Remember that most of the WTC hijackers were Saudi nationals. `Scuse me, but aren't these supposed to be the beneficieries of all of our selfless altruism in the Mideast? Or was that the people who live in Israel? Oh? Just some of the people? Just the ones who kiss our buts and never are heard to criticize those select few?

We're making the same damned mistake again. And, again, they've made certain promises to the Kurds and Shias (what ever did those dastardly Shias do to the Shiit devils who used to live south of Bagdhad? Did they eat them??) They didn't have my authorization to make these promises in my name. But they've gone and done it. Now hundreds or thousands or perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands of Iraqi nationals have condemned themselves to death and misery if we abandon them again like we did last time they acted on our lofty promises. It would be unconscionable to do that to them again. So we're obliged, for better or for worse, to finish what we've started.

I am glad that there is so much talk about US Imperialism surfacing.  Maybe this will cause the US to voluntarily ban itself from profit-generating involvement afterwards and restrict itself to only giving aid (no receiving). I want to see Dick Cheney's Haliburton company NOT be the ones to repair the oil wells, for example.

That was a little slight of mind. They already have the contract to put out the fires. We still don't know how much money or time or any other details of that contract. And the same people will be pulling down the big bucks under different corporate names regardless. Hell, we still don't know who was on Cheney's energy commission. And, the way things stand, we probably won't until America is liberated from our illigitimate, tyranical government. The USFG will never voluntarily relinquish the power we give it. We'll have to take it back ourselves or wait around come under the rule of some other tyranny. I just hope it's done in a somewhat civil manner by Americans. Any other option is practically unthinkable.

I hope Afghanistan is doing ok. I think while it is still "bad" in Afghanistan, it is a whole lot better than I was expecting it would be at this point.  In relation to Afghanistan, I suspect Iraq will do even better after the war.

Hey, quit bogartin' and pass some along. Why do you think things are OK in Afghanistan and why do you think things will be better in Iraq?

I hope Iraq is the end of Bush's middle east rampage, unless of course he wants to take action against Israel's 69 UN Resolution violations.  I'm all for that.  Did you know that the U.S. has vetoed 32 times in the UN to take action against Israel's violations?

I'm right with you on that! I've held pretty much all along that the place to start is to quit giving Arabs good reasons to hate us. Maybe then we can deal with the stupid reasons without committing mass murder.

Even though lots of progress will be made in both Afghanistan and Iraq, someone will rise to power and screw it all up again.  So that's why I just say to hell with these wars.  They're only temporary relief. David "

Exactly.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
-- Aristotle

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Hamiltonf on April 02, 2003, 07:49:00 PM

On 2003-04-02 13:03:00, Antigen wrote: " I don't think the soldiers have gone in nearly as clueless as most Americans are wrt the outcome or the realistic definition of "surgical strikes". I don't think they had any illusions about zero casualties or a "clean" war. I do think that, if I had to be a POW, I'd rather be an Iraqi in American hands than the other way around. I also hold no illusions about the effects of war on soldiers. I know that some of our guys will snap and turn animal. But not many. I think they will be as dissilusioned as any Viet Nam vet about the promised outcome; liberty and democracy for all. Remember that most of the WTC hijackers were Saudi nationals. `Scuse me, but aren't these supposed to be the beneficieries of all of our selfless altruism in the Mideast? Or was that the people who live in Israel? Oh? Just some of the people? Just the ones who kiss our buts and never are heard to criticize those select few? We're making the same damned mistake again. And, again, they've made certain promises to the Kurds and Shias (what ever did those dastardly Shias do to the Shiit devils who used to live south of Bagdhad? Did they eat them??) They didn't have my authorization to make these promises in my name. But they've gone and done it. Now hundreds or thousands or perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands of Iraqi nationals have condemned themselves to death and misery if we abandon them again like we did last time they acted on our lofty promises. It would be unconscionable to do that to them again. So we're obliged, for better or for worse, to finish what we've started. I have to agree with much of what you say, Ginger.  As an ex patriat Brit, I was shocked by Tony Blair, I look to Newspapers like the Independant or The Guardian from Britain for analysis.  Unfortunately, in N. America, our news is seriously filtered and CNN for sure lacks ANY credibility.  The cheerleading done by the Washington Post and the New York Times still leaves much to be desired. Robert Fisk has written a good article at http://argument.independent.co.uk/comme ... ory=392756 (http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=392756)  I'd like to hear your reaction

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Tampa survivor on April 02, 2003, 10:14:00 PM

Ginger,
Good to read a post from my favorite cellular irritant.  You always seem to keep up on stuff. I respect that!!! I am trying to ignore the war.  I was there last time....
If there is a force above or below, this is the time our kids over there need ya.  Thier kids too...
Our politicians are idiots.
Thier politicians are idiots.
If we gave the big poli-players a 45 caliber each and a field to win or loose against the other side's senior officials, I would pay attention.  That would be fair to the soldiers.
Generals rarely start wars, because they have to finish them....
Bill, Petty Officer 2nd class, US Navy 88-92

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on April 03, 2003, 04:54:00 PM

I don't need you calling me naive.  See the first word you quoted is "maybe".  You somehow missed that word though.  So I will spell it out into greater detail.  Maybe those who are shouting against American imperialism and capitalizing on defense and rebuilding will be taken as a sign that the planners are caught in their scheme.  The result could be that the planners abandon the self-serving elements of the scheme.  I know it is a long shot.  Very unlikely to happen.

On 2003-04-01 09:55:00, Anonymous wrote: " On 2003-03-28 20:41:00, JDavid wrote: " Maybe this will cause the US to voluntarily ban itself from profit-generating involvement afterwards and restrict itself to only giving aid (no receiving). I want to see Dick Cheney's Haliburton company NOT be the ones to repair the oil wells, for example. >" David, I think you are naive.  This war is all about making the world safe for hypocrisy.  Try this Washington Post article for starters http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... l?referrer (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62995-2003Mar31.html?referrer)"

[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-04-03 13:56 ]

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on April 03, 2003, 05:32:00 PM

Yep, I am aware of the aspect of fueling the fire of the Arabs' hatred.  The risk of producing a hundred new Al Quaidas.  Maybe the guilty parties will steer clear of such a backlash.  More likely they will not, I realize.  Has the US government already crossed the line which dooms us to the backlash?  I don't know.  It took Al Quaida 10 years to get pissed off enough to react to the US military still being in Saudi Arabia.  If the war stopped right now, I'd say, "ok, that's good too".  But if they can confirm Saddam's death within 4 more days or so, that's good news.  If it takes 4 more months, no way.

I was expressing an idea/hope that US corporations like Haliburton would hand over the contracts to Arab companies.  Most of my hopes of this nature are based on how these US corporations probably did not expect to be so exposed and receiving so much interest from the people.  Now they are exposed.  Maybe it will be influential.  Maybe not.

You know me.  I know all about Patriot Act, Patriot Act II, Total Information Awareness, the detentions & roundups of immigrants & dissidents.  I'm against all that.  It makes me want to not have kids.  I don't want them doomed to live under the United States authoritarian state.

I don't think Afghanistan is doing ok.  They still have gangs, militias, tribes bullying people around.  The security forces are at a 40% dropout rate.  The existing security groups are practically savages who panic and lose their patience with large crowds.  I thought it was going to be much worse at this time.  That's all I was saying.  They don't have a 13-sided civil war going.  They aren't attempting to assassinate Karzai all the time.  No one seems to be pissed off at the US over Afghanistan right now.  Everything I know of that is bad there right now was bad before the war.

Iraq has the hope for keeping their intact industries going and rebuilding anything important which was destroyed in the war more easily than Afghanistan.  Afghanistan slid into third world poverty before the "war on terror", so they had to start from basically nothing.  In addition to other industries, Iraq already has established and operational oil fields and shipping ports.  Iraq just basically has a huge head start compared to Afghanistan.

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Antigen on April 04, 2003, 08:24:00 PM

On 2003-04-02 16:49:00, Hamiltonf wrote: I have to agree with much of what you say, Ginger.  As an ex patriat Brit, I was shocked by Tony Blair, I look to Newspapers like the Independant or The Guardian from Britain for analysis.  Unfortunately, in N. America, our news is seriously filtered and CNN for sure lacks ANY credibility.  The cheerleading done by the Washington Post and the New York Times still leaves much to be desired. Robert Fisk has written a good article at http://argument.independent.co.uk/comme ... ory=392756 (http://argument.independent.co.uk/commentators/story.jsp?story=392756)  I'd like to hear your reaction

Well, here's a theory that I've read and it seems credible. Chaos in the mideast and, indeed, the world is not an unintended consequence of the neocon regime. It's the objective. Today, I heard a most articulate and level headed representative of the PLO on C-Span pose the idea that Sharone might be perpetuating chaos in Israel because it's the only way he can remain in power. More and more Israeli citizens oppose the ongoing colinization, the horrific treatment of Palestinians.... but, there's a crisis and he's an iron fisted warrior and so he wins another election.

At the same time, back in the USSA, we're witnessing a total and blatant suspension of our Constitution, the likes of which we haven't seen since the days leading up to Lincoln's assasination. We could argue till the cows come home over who knew what and when about 9/11. We'll never really know for sure what the facts are because .... well, it's secret.

But there are certain other facts that are just as plain as day. Regardless of whether or not they had anything to do with causing that attack, this administration is taking full advantage of it to scare the American people into accepting totalitarian rule by the neocons.

When we note that the war is, obviously, not going according to plan, which plan are we talking about? The one Melvin Sembler may have advised the President to pursue? Or the other, more simplistic one used to sell war to the American people?

Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 05, 2003, 11:35:00 AM

On 2003-04-03 13:54:00, JDavid wrote: "I don't need you calling me naive.  See the first word you quoted is "maybe".  You somehow missed that word though.  So I will spell it out into greater detail.  Maybe those who are shouting against American imperialism and capitalizing on defense and rebuilding will be taken as a sign that the planners are caught in their scheme.  The result could be that the planners abandon the self-serving elements of the scheme.  I know it is a long shot.  Very unlikely to happen. [ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-04-03 13:56 ]"

Yes, indeed, very unlikely to happen.  I see that Colin Powell has been trying to persuade the Europeans that the US should direct reconstruction.  The Europeans are not buying it.  To me this just confirms that there are US corporations salivating at the prospect of making great profits.  The American people are being duped by these neocons.  "shock and awe" is what US taxpayers face when the bill finally faces them.  Perhaps I was wrong to suggest that you are naive.  As you say, it's very unlikely to happen.  Which prompts me to ask why you would put forward the proposition in the first place.  Is it a faint hope that you hold?  If so,  could it not be that is exactly what the neocons rely on to gain American acceptance of their evil ways?  It is highly unlikely the planners will abandon the self-serving elements of their scheme.  Richard Perle continues to spout his ideology, but modifies his language to suit the change in circumstances.  I note that Blair, for example, changed his rationale for going to war at least six times since resolution 1441.
So, I do not think you, personally, are naive, and I apologise if you took offence, but I do think that it is problematic when your hopefulness and inherant goodness permits you to contemplate that the goals of these people will be changed.  They won't, only their strategies will.

For excellent analysis from Britain  read
http://www.medialens.org (http://www.medialens.org)

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 09, 2003, 04:04:00 PM

Well, it looks like the Iraqis are pleased here in the US. about the progress. People are saying the war is over. It's not. What about all these people who are free now?

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Antigen on April 09, 2003, 08:56:00 PM

A friend of min (BBS type friend) in Flanders reminded me today that the annimosity over Nazi sympathizers, alleged Nazi sympathizers and the Walloon oppression continues to this day!

No, the war is not over in Iraq, the bell just rang, contenders are taking to their corners for a brief rest and strategy planning. Next (if not already) the Shias and Kurds will be lynching the Sunnis (Sadam was a Sunni). Probably the Kurds more than the Shias, since "our" man, Ahmed Chalabi, has at least some vague ties to the Kurds. So they'll be less pre-occupied with raising resistance to the US military occupation, at least during these first few weeks.

Never mind that Afghanistan is going back to the Taliban and we're making serious noise about pounding No. Korea, Syria and possibly Iran (of all places!) already.

Here's an interesting discussion on the whole thing on a Belgian forum. They've created an English language forum just to find out what Americans think. I've been hanging out there just to find out what Belgians think.

http://www.1000-poot.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=23 (http://www.1000-poot.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=23)

If you create a login and choose English, most of the control links will show in English.


 

The fact is the fact, the program is evil, and every attempt to make
chicken salad out of chicken shit has resulted in a Chicken shit
sandwich, No pickle on the side could ever change that.

BINGO!

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: METALGOD8 on April 10, 2003, 02:52:00 AM

OK, so US liberated Iraq, woohoo, then it's off to North Korea. That one will involve nukes though. I hope you don't mind.  ::cheers::
 
MG8 :smokin:

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on April 10, 2003, 03:24:00 AM

I would have approved of an intentional assassination of Saddam and the Baath Party.  It's the full-scale war I don't approve of because it's not necessary.  I'd rather have seen Iraqis assassinate the Baaths, but that's ok with me if a US bomb is what it takes.  Around 1200 people are dead from the full-scale war.  The full-scale war wasn't necessary, but then there would not be billions to be made of all the destruction that has been done in the meantime.  I wonder if they intentionally left Saddam in power long enough for him to destroy oil facilities just for the sake of adding to that sector of the rebuilding market.

David

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2003, 04:01:00 AM

The only way to rebuild it, was to tear it down? The only way to get Saddam was to take over? Assasanation is terrorism. What about the generations to follow for these people? A nation that has been oppressed for almost 40 years? Can this be a change that changes everything for them? Changes have happened before.

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on April 10, 2003, 05:36:00 AM

If terrorism is to maliciously kill whoever happens to be around at the time, how can the deliberate, targeted assassination of a dictator and his party be terrorism?  Even if it is under the new blanket of defined terrorism, I wouldn't care.  Anything that meant 1200 people didn't get killed in the process would do just fine for me.

David

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2003, 05:45:00 AM

I know but 3000 were killed in 9/11. How many more terrorist attacks do we need before we showed force back.

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on April 10, 2003, 10:31:00 PM

You know those 3000 basically died for Israel?  I bet they would have not died for Israel if they had a choice.  Our government refuses to give anyone a choice where Israel is concerned.  In the aftermath, our government sets up or continues to boost funds for a total of 30 huge US agencies all for the sake of Israel.  Our government would rather launch a massive training campaign in hopes that the National Guard will be able to squash the US citizens if we protest too much against elements of the Israeli agenda.  How long until we show force against what... Israel controlling the entire world in a two-tier caste system of Zionists and Gentiles?

David

On 2003-04-10 02:45:00, Anonymous wrote: "I know but 3000 were killed in 9/11. How many more terrorist attacks do we need before we showed force back. "

[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-04-10 19:33 ]

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2003, 10:42:00 PM

That's right. I knew that. Little Big Israel. I know a lot of Arabs are gonna hate us more now!?
I just wish we as a nation could do something that wasn't riddled with greed.
Otherwise, what next, decide to nuke the entire Middle East? Except for Isreal?...LOL

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 10, 2003, 10:57:00 PM

Project for a New American Century

Take some time and read the stuff at the below referenced sites.  If you don't know what I'm talking about.   I can tell you, it isn't gonna be over with just Iraq.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lo ... _pnac.html (http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_louise_010603_pnac.html)

http://www.newamericancentury.org/ (http://www.newamericancentury.org/)

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Froderik on April 10, 2003, 11:24:00 PM

First of all, I'll start by saying I'm WAY behind when it comes to researching politics. I admit that my knowledge is limited in this area. I won't go into why I am almost 'apolitical'. I used to do NOTHING BUT read about media cover-ups, conspriracy 'theories', and all all that good stuff. I had a genuine desire to be as aware as i could be about this wonderful world of politics that we live in and are victims of. Anyhoo - a lot of this stuff is either over my friggin' head, or I just downright don't have the patience or desire to read about it. My interests lie elsewhere. I guess i ought to be stung up from a tree for not 'giving a shit'. Well there's just too damn much to sift thru.. Well here i go...I don't want this to turn into a rant. But here is my question...What about the Iraqis who are GLAD TO SEE THAT FUCKER DEAD? This kind of puts a dent in the whole protest thing in my eyes. Truthfully, zealousness on both sides makes me want to VOMIT! People tend to just want to 'form an opinion' and jump on whatever bandwagon comes rolling by. An example of how sickeningly ironic things can get is THIS:
I saw a woman on the news a few weeks back commenting on protesters here in Balto saying something derogatory about them, and her point was, "They shouldn't be protesting because that's what our boys are fighting to defend - the right to protest." Talk about some blatantly convoluted logic, well there it is! So until we meet again I guess it's "Live & let Live" and "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out", etc...

 :skull: 

[ This Message was edited by: AlexL on 2003-04-10 20:24 ]

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2003, 02:03:00 AM

World domination, complements of the US huh, okay, how bad could that really be?  Mc Donalds in every city in the entire world?!  It was bound to happen eventually. Everyone knows that most Americans are gluttonous pigs, especially the heads. Hey, as much as the rest of them hate us, It's a good thing we  can kick everyone's asses. No-one is comin' to our rescue! Giving them Israel would only give them more people to slaughter, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. So Alex, I agree with ya, nothin' we can do globally. Why bitch about it? I don't care how many hippies you've got forming a circle of love, they're out numbered.
Good for the Iraqis, it's about time for them, isn't it?

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2003, 06:52:00 AM

the americanization of the world according to those guys in the "inner circle" of the administration should be done via preemptive strikes.   They name Iraq, Iran, syria, russia, north korea, and many other  countries that should be invaded by the US.   Don't know about you guys, but that is kinda scary to me.

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on April 11, 2003, 06:59:00 AM

Now the Iraqis get to live under the rule of the Imperial Republican government.  The Fox News version of democracy only for the elite and "as long as you aren't being tortured, you're free".

You know why the greens, anarchists and libertarians are outnumbered?  It's because all media is either republican or democrat.  All the satellite and cable news is republican while all the local news is democrat.  Mass media brainwashing.

It's not the war that made the Iraqis so happy.  It's the assassination of Saddam plus the others who either died or disappeared when 4 2000 lb bombs were dropped on one place.  This B-1 bombing did not kill 1200 people, but the war did.

So what next?  100 new Al Quidas form in retribution to the Iraq situation and coalition troops having to either stay there indefinitely or leave and let Turkey, Syria and Iran plow the shit out of each other and the Iraqis.

I don't mind helping out the Iraqis with getting the assassination dealt with, but I do think the only real solution would have been a solution carried out by Iraqis themselves.

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2003, 08:35:00 AM

"So what next? 100 new Al Quidas form in retribution to the Iraq situation and coalition troops having to either stay there indefinitely or leave and let Turkey, Syria and Iran plow the shit out of each other and the Iraqis. "

Like I said, let's nuke 'em all!?! Those guys can't take care of them selves?...so how cares?
 Media Brainwashing... I think intellegent people can educate them selves.
Iraqis aren't strong enough to re-build on their own.

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on April 11, 2003, 03:00:00 PM

I'm saying how about if we not nuke or bomb anyone and realize why people hate us (and why they resort to terrorism).  If we stop pissing people off by ceasing to support a genocidal apartheid, that's a good thing.  It's also a good thing to stop trying to establish a US military presence all over the middle east.

It's not our place to judge if they can take care of themselves or not.  One thing is certain: they would have a hell of a lot more strength as 24 million individuals instead of relying on one central dictator (Saddam or not) to supply their strength.  It's not our place to evaluate their ability to rebuild on their own either.

I can't say I expect the masses to spend the kind of time I do looking for things outside the mass media.  Hell that could even be a disaster because there are tons of lies out here on the Internet too.  It's too hard to find the truth.  Instead, I would like to make the truth obsolete and quit relying on big government; it only leads to mass media influence (propaganda), misrepresented masses, internal and international conflict, capitalist corruption, and so on.

On 2003-04-11 05:35:00, Anonymous wrote: Like I said, let's nuke 'em all!?! Those guys can't take care of them selves?...so how cares?  Media Brainwashing... I think intellegent people can educate them selves. Iraqis aren't strong enough to re-build on their own. "

[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-04-11 12:02 ]

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Tampa survivor on April 11, 2003, 06:54:00 PM

I love this thread....lots of good thinking and listening going on.  The bits about the constitution trouble me the most, as that is where my children have the most to loose.
Well, maybe that Ponzi known as Social security will cost them more (or us).....
Bill

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2003, 09:41:00 AM

On 2003-04-11 12:00:00, JDavid wrote: "I'm saying how about if we not nuke or bomb anyone and realize why people hate us (and why they resort to terrorism).  If we stop pissing people off by ceasing to support a genocidal apartheid, that's a good thing.  It's also a good thing to stop trying to establish a US military presence all over the middle east. It's not our place to judge if they can take care of themselves or not.  One thing is certain: they would have a hell of a lot more strength as 24 million individuals instead of relying on one central dictator (Saddam or not) to supply their strength.  It's not our place to evaluate their ability to rebuild on their own either. I can't say I expect the masses to spend the kind of time I do looking for things outside the mass media.  Hell that could even be a disaster because there are tons of lies out here on the Internet too.  It's too hard to find the truth.  Instead, I would like to make the truth obsolete and quit relying on big government; it only leads to mass media influence (propaganda), misrepresented masses, internal and international conflict, capitalist corruption, and so on."

 Wow, that is the stupidest thing I've read in a long time.

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on April 17, 2003, 11:45:00 AM

I'm used to all the devoted Fox News viewer types insulting the things we free thinkers say out of paranoia that we are most likely correct, while you and the people who run your life are wrong.


On 2003-04-17 06:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

Wow, that is the stupidest thing I've read in a long time."

[ This Message was edited by: JDavid on 2003-04-17 08:46 ]

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Antigen on April 17, 2003, 12:29:00 PM

These are some of the most brilliant things I've read lately:

"Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own."
--John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives [July 4, 1821]

And

WAR IS A RACKET Smedley Darlington Butler Major General - United States Marine Corps [Retired] Born West Chester, Pa., July 30, 1881 WAR is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes. In the World War a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows. ... Full Text: http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/artic ... racket.htm (http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm)

Holy Crow! Smedley Buttler was born in my father's home town! He may well have known my grandfather's family.

A multitude of laws in a country is like a great number of physicians, a sign of weakness and malady.


--Voltaire, philosopher (1694-1778)

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2003, 12:33:00 PM

On 2003-04-17 08:45:00, JDavid wrote: "I'm used to all the devoted Fox News viewer types insulting the things we free thinkers say out of paranoia...>"

                  ...AKA not real.

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: Antigen on April 17, 2003, 12:36:00 PM

On 2003-04-17 09:33:00, Anonymous wrote: " On 2003-04-17 08:45:00, JDavid wrote: "I'm used to all the devoted Fox News viewer types insulting the things we free thinkers say out of paranoia...>"                   ...AKA not real."

AKA Faux News.

[1971 - 2001] the darkest chapter in Federal law enforcement history.
Committee on Government Reform

Title: Hello, where is everyone at on the?WAR? that's going on righ
Post by: JDavid on April 17, 2003, 03:16:00 PM

Far Unbalanced