Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: ehm on March 24, 2003, 11:36:00 PM

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ehm on March 24, 2003, 11:36:00 PM

Did anyone watch the Oscars last night? I heard the boos from the audience were actually members of his family,(Michael Moore's) he asked to do that.
I think if he can worm his way into winning the Oscar, (inch worm) then he has all the right in the world to voice his protests into the mic.I don't think it was out of line, it was his moment.  Who cares... ::soapbox::

The guy likes to stir up shit, and is good enough at it to win, so good for him. I think this guy is entertaining, like Andy Kaufman, or Penn & Teller. The difference is he seems convicted to what he does, or sincere. I'm not denying he's a smart-ass, but he's funny.  ::soapbox::

No big deal, I just wanted to know what people think.
Morli

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2003, 12:37:00 AM

Michael Moore is for gun control ::armed:: . He voice and views are usually very irritating to me.

But the war in Iraq seems pretty immoral and therefore some of his comments at the Oscars were well recieved by me :lol: .

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2003, 12:37:00 AM

Michael Moore is for gun control ::armed:: . He voice and views are usually very irritating to me.

But the war in Iraq seems pretty immoral and therefore some of his comments at the Oscars were well recieved by me :lol: .

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2003, 12:38:00 AM

Michael Moore is for gun control ::armed:: . He voice and views are usually very irritating to me.

But the war in Iraq seems pretty immoral and therefore some of his comments at the Oscars were well recieved by me :lol: .

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2003, 12:40:00 AM

oops on the triple submission. that is irritating too.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: kpickle39 on March 25, 2003, 07:47:00 AM

you are annoying too - at least get a username that no one will recognize.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2003, 08:11:00 AM

I don't know what kpickle39 stands for? ahem.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2003, 08:11:00 AM

I don't know what kpickle39 stands for? ahem.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ehm on March 25, 2003, 12:02:00 PM

Did anyone watch the Oscars Monday night? I heard the boos from the audience were actually members of his family,(Michael Moore's) he asked to do that.
I think if he can worm his way into winning the Oscar, (inch worm) then he has all the right in the world to voice his protests into the mic.I don't think it was out of line, it was his moment. Who cares...  ::soapbox::  

The guy likes to stir up shit, and is good enough at it to win, so good for him. I think this guy is entertaining, like Andy Kaufman, or Penn & Teller. The difference is he seems convicted to what he does, or sincere. I'm not denying he's a smart-ass, but he's funny.  

 ::soapbox:: No big deal, I just wanted to know what people think.
Morli

[ This Message was edited by: Morli on 2003-03-25 09:03 ]

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: kpickle39 on March 25, 2003, 12:33:00 PM

yeah, I saw it....thought it was great.  In my opinion, Michael Moore is a far greater american than that pathetic excuse of a man named Charlton Heston.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ehm on March 25, 2003, 01:02:00 PM

News was ripping him to shreads last night, I found it amusing. I mean, if you don't fully support this War, you're a piece of "Bad American Shit." It's hilarious!
Morli

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Tsila on March 25, 2003, 02:06:00 PM

Good for Michael Moore.
 :lol:

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 25, 2003, 11:33:00 PM

As everyone knows by now, extreme gun control causes crime rates to soar because the law abiding populace is disarmed and therefore vulnerable to criminals who seize the opportunity. These are stats, facts, not opinions. The weird thing is that gun control proponents KNOW THIS AND DON'T CARE. This should always tip the discerning off when the facts are ignored.

Michael Moore is at best unwilling to acknowledge these facts undermining the strength his anti-gun stance. There are gun control laws on the books, but disarmament of the people is not the answer.

 Hitler disarmed Germany right before the Holocaust. Many Jews therefore, the smart ones who learn from history, are also against gun control and are armed to the teeth against gun control. No thank you, these say, to the controlling of the guns. "Been there, done that, never again. Pry it from my cold dead fingers, you darn dirty hippies of the coming apocalypse! :rofl: " (or something like that).

I don't own a gun never have, probably never will. But to blindly go along with the gun control because it is popular among alternative rockers is lame. Just study it out. Stick with the facts and avoid hyped out one-sided views like Michael Moore's opinions on the subject. He's entitled, but he is wrong.

Switching gears to the original post, although I respectfully disagree with Mr. Moore on gun control, I don't think he should be booed for disagreeing with the war. Neither should I be "booed" for dissenting against Morli's censorship.

Mr. Moore certainly has more leverage with the war. The fact that he was booed doesn't mean he was wrong. I am fair. I think this war, under the premise that it is being fought under is immoral and it took some balls to speak out at the Oscars. It is refreshing to see it on CNN headline news every half hour-a firm rebuke to the President. oofta.

We are not in Straight, we have our own opinions now. Be free to agree or disagree. I love you all.

Sincerely,
Mr. Anonymous

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ehm on March 26, 2003, 08:19:00 AM

I can definately see both sides. Did anyone see him on CNN last night? His arguement was terrible.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2003, 07:26:00 PM

Excuse me, where did you get that crap?  Charlton Heston?  The United States has one of the highest crime rates in the world, especially organised crime.  And the highest incarceration rate -- approaching somewhere around 700 per 100,000 population, compared to Britain, at around 100 per 100,000 where they've had gun control for years.  Moreover, the British police are largely unarmed, so that when I encounter a UK bobby I know that his authority is in his head and not on his hip. Even in Northern Ireland, at the height of "the troubles" the murder rate was still lower than in Detroit.  
Now in Canada, where they are trying to bring in a gun registry (the design of which is badly flawed),   the murder rate just across the river at Windsor is again far lower than in Detroit  (I think Michael Moore points this out).  As well, more than 50% of the crimes committed with guns in Canada have had the guns smuggled from the US.  Heaven forbid, though that the US shouldn't become apoplectic when a little bit of POT goes in the opposite direction.  I say NO to gun controls in the US then it can simply proceed apace and self-destruct.  

The point about the question about Michael Moore was, I thought, his opposition the the US led invasion of Iraq.

How about some discussion about that?

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 26, 2003, 11:37:00 PM

Yes, we did go on a little rabbit trail there, so what are your thoughts on the war? Bush says there is "day of reckoning" coming for Iraq. My mother in law is currently residing in China and the press is showing a very anti-U.S. view of the situation that is the polar opposite of our media coverage here in the states. It is not a popular war. Before the unpopular war though, the U. S. has been becoming increasingly unpopular worldwide. This war compounds that unpopularity tremendously and it is not helping our reputation elsewhere.

We can't just do our own thing, thinking that world opinion doesn't matter because we are the biggest, strongest, nation/military...but this is how we are acting and it is really scary. No nation is without invulnerabilities. We have porous borders, foreigners on our soil who are ready to fight against America and so to just flex our military strength is inviting certain aggression and retaliation. I think that they (anti-U.S. Muslims in particular) have been begging for us with their chants and prayers for us to do something like this (Iraq war) so they can have the excuse to release havoc on us. What better excuse than the U.S. led invasion of Iraq against the United Nations and world-wide public opinion?

We may be looking at an end of the line thing here in the very near future. It sure feels that way. This is why I was very impressed with Michael Moore's booming rebuke in regards to the war. It was courageous. It is one thing to write a song against the war as some have done. It is quite another thing to yell at the Oscars,  ::bangin:: "Shame on you, Mr. Bush!" :rofl:

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ClayL on March 27, 2003, 09:25:00 AM

Give me a break, the islamic fundamentalist were already chomping at the bit to do damage to America, the Great Satan. In case you have forgotten, these fundalmentaists were responsible for 2 bombings of the World Trade Center, the bombing of that Pan-AM jet over Locerbie Scotland, and bombing 2 US Embassies amoung various atrocities comitted in other nations.

Micheal Moore is a fat ass moron who takes hot issues and sensationalizes them, often with complete fiction ( http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/pri ... =110003233 (http://www.opinionjournal.com/forms/printThis.html?id=110003233) ) and then passes them off as documentaries when they are actually up there with Jules Vern. He should shut up and go eat something else. The last thing about MM that really pisses me off is the way he tries to come across like Mr. Everyman. This fat ass is a very wealthy fat ass from a wealthy family. I truly hate rich folks who try to come across like a mill worker that has experienced truly hard times. Their whole lives are phony. Susan Sarandon is the same way, coming from a very wealthy family, but at least she had the class to leave the politics at home. (I hate her politics, but think she is quite classy.) Hmmm, perhaps MM's next Documentary could be on Dr. Atkins?

Who says we can't do things on our own? This Nation has the largest economy in the world, far out-streaching the GDP of it's next closest competitor. Yes, Competitor. Most of the Nations in Europe are not France and Germany and most of the European Nations support what we are doing. I can see why France and Germany don't want to fight, mostof the things that Saddam is not supposed to have will have little tags on them saying "Made in France" or "Made in Germany." Their just issed because they are going to lose a good customer. By the way, the German Ambassador to the UN really pissed me off yesterday saying that it should be our responsibility alone to rebuild Iraq. Perhaps, the US should remember this next time we put the smack-down on a little Hitler who causes a devastating war in Europe. Speaking of war in Europe, I have thought we should give those ungrateful bastards in France back to Germany, then they could all be one happy family. France should shut-up about colonial shit also. If it wasn't for them trying to hold on to their Michelin rubber plantations in their colony, Vietnam, then we would have never wound up there ourselves. We originally got into Vietnam because France wouldn't join NATO unles we promised to help them with Vietnam.

Now that I have made clear that I think Saddam has/had to go. I still have my doubts as to why it had to BE the US to force him out. I still think he had to go, because once he had the weapons he sought, Saddam would have had no promlems selling them to whomever. On the other hand, I don't think the UN could find a Quarter Pounder with Cheese at McDonalds and no way in hell find something a Nation State is trying to hide. The UN has become as worthless as tits on a bull. I believe the UN has trouble Managing to go to the restroom, There is no way they can Manage world events. Where the Hell in Kofi Anan from anyway and what's this with little third world piss ants trying to tell us what to do? They get thier economy moving, then we'll talk.

CL

These are my views and opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time. I don't think these will change anytime soon though.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ClayL on March 27, 2003, 09:34:00 AM

On 2003-03-26 16:26:00, Anonymous wrote: "Excuse me, where did you get that crap?  Charlton Heston?  The United States has one of the highest crime rates in the world, especially organised crime.  And the highest incarceration rate -- approaching somewhere around 700 per 100,000 population, compared to Britain, at around 100 per 100,000 where they've had gun control for years.  Moreover, the British police are largely unarmed, so that when I encounter a UK bobby I know that his authority is in his head and not on his hip. Even in Northern Ireland, at the height of "the troubles" the murder rate was still lower than in Detroit.   Now in Canada, where they are trying to bring in a gun registry (the design of which is badly flawed),   the murder rate just across the river at Windsor is again far lower than in Detroit  (I think Michael Moore points this out).  As well, more than 50% of the crimes committed with guns in Canada have had the guns smuggled from the US.  Heaven forbid, though that the US shouldn't become apoplectic when a little bit of POT goes in the opposite direction.  I say NO to gun controls in the US then it can simply proceed apace and self-destruct

Perhaps you should catch up on your data. Since the "total" gun ban in GB. The Armed crime rate has exploded, a good portion of the bobbies are now armed, and I stand a far less chance of being mugged in NYC than in GB. Further, you can obtain the RAW data if you wish from the DOJ, but the states with concealed carry laws do have lower crime rates.

CL

[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2003-03-27 06:36 ]

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: kpickle39 on March 27, 2003, 12:40:00 PM

what fundamentalists are you talking about?   Maybe the right wing christian fundamentalists?  Oh God, I wish I was a bigot like most of the "christian" right wing,fascist, right to lifers...then Jesus would save me!

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ClayL on March 28, 2003, 08:29:00 AM

On 2003-03-27 09:40:00, kpickle39 wrote: "what fundamentalists are you talking about?   Maybe the right wing christian fundamentalists?  Oh God, I wish I was a bigot like most of the "christian" right wing,fascist, right to lifers...then Jesus would save me!  "

I believe the sentence you are referring to is the one in which I state, "these fundamentalists...." In the paragraph I am talking about islamic fundamentaists as stated in the topic sentence. The ultra right-wing christian wacco's are a completely different matter. Actually, if you think about it, the ultra right-wing christian wacco's are just the ku klux klan without the sheets. I just love listening to their backwoods, redneck, incestial rheteric. It's better than icapec.

CL

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: kpickle39 on March 28, 2003, 01:20:00 PM

are not only southerners....and they aren'to nly rednecks  either.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ClayL on March 28, 2003, 03:20:00 PM

I agree, rednecks aren't just from the South. Some of the worst redneck's I have ever met are from up north. Just plain river bottom white trash. People who redefine the term "Skank."

As for not just being rednecks. I'll bet you could catch quite a few of the "Christian" Fundamentalists throwing empty beer bottles at road signs from a moving car. Kind of like a joke I heard:
 (Q) How can you spot a Baptist?
 (A)They're the ones that won't talk to you in the liquor store.

I don't know about you, but here in SC, this has a certain ring of truth to it.

CL

[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2003-03-28 12:21 ]

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: kpickle39 on March 28, 2003, 09:19:00 PM

LOL

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2003, 12:42:00 AM

Clay, you seem to agree with what I am saying that gun control causes crime rates to skyrocket. I have heard mind-blowing reports of crime increasing as much as 300% in Austrailia or in certain localities within that country because of gun control. America is violent, but gun control will make the problem worse if these statistics are any indication.

To address what you said about Islamic fundamentalists already wanting to kill us; You are correct. We are living in very volatile times, and there are very hard decisions around this conflict. America has been polarized into two camps: one that supports the war with Iraq, and one that does not support it.

I can understand the logic in both camps. But I ask the question for those who support the war, can we kill ALL the people that want to kill us before they do? Do we dare to attempt to preemptively strike at ALL who would murder us or cherish the notion? In picking on Iraq, we are seeming like hypocrites, because we are only picking a fight we think we can win, and leaving everybody else alone, because we aren't up to taking them ALL on.

If we kill the so called enemies in Iraq, the inspiration for the fundamentalist Muslims that are anti-U.S. will still thrive and perhaps be encouraged by our actions in Iraq.

THE WAR IN IRAQ WILL DO NOTHING TO STOP THE RADICAL MUSLIMS INSPIRATION TO DESTROY AMERICA(NS)!

Other militant groups are just going to rise up to replace them and we only injure our cause by making them "martyrs" for their cause.

Am I right about this or not?

We're dealing with a new threat and new consequences for going to war.

I am a conservative, I like President Bush. I am strongly for Missle Defense, for example. But I feel that this war of Bush is grevious and full of presumption for reasons I won't go into here.

The death toll for our coalition forces is very high when you compare it to the casualties in the Gulf War in 1991 (I don't know how many died, I will research). This is hard to ignore. Anyway, I love America, but this war IS wrong.

Please contribute to this healthy debate on the war. We need creative solutions for these difficult problems.

By the way, don't be thrown that I pointed out that our enemies tend to be "muslims", because, well, they ARE (the media avoids this obvious distinction of our enemies). I only bring this out to clarify the situation and bring out the religious elements that certainly define our present conflicts, not to promote bigotry or fear. The doctrine of Islam, the Quaran, is not peaceful, but violent. There ARE many peaceful, moderate Muslims, but they really don't help because they are afraid to censure (and don't) the radical ones, and because they know the Quaran supports violence against "the infidels". Let's face it, not all of our fellow Muslims act like Cat Stevens who seems like Ghandi or something. There I go again, saying too much. Oh that all the Muslims of the world were as Cat Stevens...

But, in my view, killing them is NOT the answer, though it may seem the only answer to some people because of the threat. Creative Solutions? Any ideas?

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: kpickle39 on March 29, 2003, 07:53:00 AM

300% over what?  that is the critical question.  If there were 10 shooting deaths in year 1, and it went up 300% in year 2.... then 300% ain't much.  Very easy to lie w/stats.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2003, 02:04:00 PM

I cant beleive that you would sy that all of our enemies are Muslims, that is an incorrect statement. Everyone, pretty much outside of America hates America. The fundamentalists, so happen to be the ones that have acted on this anger. I find it sad that so many people on this site can see the injustices that they were submitted to yet are blind of the injustices that America submits millions of people to everyday. We are an empire that, under the Republican hawks, is out of fucking control. Islam is one of the largest religions in the world. The fundamentalists represent roughly 3% of said population so we're only seeing a slither of said population declaring Jihad. The ones we really need to watch are these fucking hawks right here. Have you read the Patriot act? Have you checked the Patriot act 2 that they want to push through? Dont become so distracted with all this bullshit nationalistic fervor and find out that while you looked the other way your own goverment fucked you.A true patriot will do what he must for his country including calling his own goverment on thier bullshit. Isnt that what democracy is about? Every since Jeb Bush fucked the election for his bro. there have been more schemes and scams coming out of Washington. Cant you see that?

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 29, 2003, 11:52:00 PM

You are changing the subject from our foreign threats to our domestic problems. Both are real problems. You are familiar with a particular document called Patriot Act II which I am also familiar with. It is a tremendous power grab that threatens the loss of our freedoms. To compare the two separate threats does not mean that one invalidates the other. Militant Muslims are indeed a major threat, but you are right that is not the only threat.

There are many threats within the US and without, foreign and domestic. I occasionally visit Alex Jones website and think that he is preoccupied with the domestic threat, which is real, and ignoring the foreign threat which is also real. It is difficult to address them together, because they are different problems having different motivations.

But this topic will probably be abandoned now that we have entered the realm of conspiracies, oh well.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ClayL on March 31, 2003, 09:02:00 AM

Everyone hate America? This is not so. France and Germany are NOT Europe. The Majority of European Nations support out action in Iraq. I do not think we should wipe out all people that hate America, I think we should cut off the aid they get from America. The US gives, by a huge margin, the most foreign aid in the world. We are the most giving nation in the history of the world.

Any person will agree there is a difference between an idioit in a car loaded with C-4 and an idiot in a car loaded with a WMD. (Tell me, does it kill you when Diane Finstein puts a machine gun in the same group as nuclear, bio and chemical weapons?) Saddam Husein was trying to enable the terrorists to gain WMD's. I believe that most anything must be done to insure that this does not happen.

As far as the Patriot Act(s). I do not think some of the clauses will pass Constitutional muster and the Supremes will strike down portions of this law/bill as violating the 4th and 5th Ammendments. If this court won't, then some furture Court will. I suspect the Founders wrote the Constitution to enable the US to kick the shit out of whomever we wanted and not get much else done. It specifically protects the privacy of the citizen from the government and so states quite plainly. Which is odd for the Constitution. It was only when FDR invented entitlements that the Government got to waste boatloads of money to do nothing.

CL

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on March 31, 2003, 09:56:00 PM

Sadaam was going to give weapons of mass destruction to Bin Laden? Who told you about it!?!  Yo that double dealing fuckn rat! I thought he was going to give them to me and my dogs! Hey when did you meet with him, I mean we're talking about the same guy right?Did he tell you he was going to give them shits to Osama?
Well when I get ahold of that punk Im going to treat him like he's on t&r, you know, rip him a new asshole then make him go clean shit up! Thanks for da info mr. I repeat every damn thin I hear on FOX. Love ya's....group hug

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2003, 01:35:00 AM

On 2003-03-27 06:34:00, ClayL wrote: " On 2003-03-26 16:26:00, Anonymous wrote: "Excuse me, where did you get that crap?  Charlton Heston?  The United States has one of the highest crime rates in the world, especially organised crime.  And the highest incarceration rate -- approaching somewhere around 700 per 100,000 population, compared to Britain, at around 100 per 100,000 where they've had gun control for years.  Moreover, the British police are largely unarmed, so that when I encounter a UK bobby I know that his authority is in his head and not on his hip. Even in Northern Ireland, at the height of "the troubles" the murder rate was still lower than in Detroit.   Now in Canada, where they are trying to bring in a gun registry (the design of which is badly flawed),   the murder rate just across the river at Windsor is again far lower than in Detroit  (I think Michael Moore points this out).  As well, more than 50% of the crimes committed with guns in Canada have had the guns smuggled from the US.  Heaven forbid, though that the US shouldn't become apoplectic when a little bit of POT goes in the opposite direction.  I say NO to gun controls in the US then it can simply proceed apace and self-destruct Perhaps you should catch up on your data. Since the "total" gun ban in GB. The Armed crime rate has exploded, a good portion of the bobbies are now armed, and I stand a far less chance of being mugged in NYC than in GB. Further, you can obtain the RAW data if you wish from the DOJ, but the states with concealed carry laws do have lower crime rates. CL[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2003-03-27 06:36 ]"

Well, Clay, it's not hard to see how you have been indoctrinated.  What I find really interesting here is the claim that British police have had to arm.  I think you have to look at that in a global context of what has been happening politically and economically since the destruction of Britain's social fabric by Margaret Thatcher and which occured in conjunction with Reagan's commencing to dismantle the regulatory framework of America's superb network of utilities which resulted in the Enron and other debacles associated with privatisation, but I digress.  
You see, the economic miracle of Thatcherism was only a miracle for the rich, and sometimes not even then.  Based on the theories of the madmen known as the Chicago boys (Milton Friedman et al), Thatcherism saw the majority of Brits gradually impoverished, the destruction of an excellent public school system, the eating away of the National Health Service, the breaking of the unions, corruption at every level, skyrocketing energy costs, and "Americanization". One of Thatcher's "miracle" cures had to do with the drug trade.  She just couldn't go all the way with Milton Friedman (neither could Reagan)  on that and within her first term of office, she put a stop to allowing heroin's availability to addicts, a program that had been available since the 1920's.  Within months there were hundreds of deaths.  Moreover, organised crime moved in and the drug trade in Britain became "Americanized" with it's associated violence.  
So which came first, ClayL, the chicken or the egg?  
In fact, the first police force in Britain to  request being armed as a matter of routine was in the midland industrial town of Nottingham where they felt it was necessary because, you guessed it, organized crime and drugs.  It is only with the breakdown of the social safety net and neoliberal economic policies combined with a drug war waged on people who have lost all hope that makes it necessary to have an armed police force.  Come to think of it, ClayL, isn't the drug war in your neck of the woods still being fought mainly, by armed police against a predominantly black population?    And don't many of the States still have "Justifiable Homicide" on the books?
Now come on Clay, your sources are not very reliable. The only so-called civilized country that still has the death penalty is the US.  And most of thse executed are still niggers.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2003, 01:53:00 AM

On 2003-03-31 06:02:00, ClayL wrote: "Everyone hate America? This is not so. France and Germany are NOT Europe. The Majority of European Nations support out action in Iraq. I do not think we should wipe out all people that hate America, I think we should cut off the aid they get from America. The US gives, by a huge margin, the most foreign aid in the world. We are the most giving nation in the history of the world. Any person will agree there is a difference between an idioit in a car loaded with C-4 and an idiot in a car loaded with a WMD. (Tell me, does it kill you when Diane Finstein puts a machine gun in the same group as nuclear, bio and chemical weapons?) Saddam Husein was trying to enable the terrorists to gain WMD's. I believe that most anything must be done to insure that this does not happen. As far as the Patriot Act(s). I do not think some of the clauses will pass Constitutional muster and the Supremes will strike down portions of this law/bill as violating the 4th and 5th Ammendments. If this court won't, then some furture Court will. I suspect the Founders wrote the Constitution to enable the US to kick the shit out of whomever we wanted and not get much else done. It specifically protects the privacy of the citizen from the government and so states quite plainly. Which is odd for the Constitution. It was only when FDR invented entitlements that the Government got to waste boatloads of money to do nothing. CL"

Oh, ClayL  
Apologists for the Bush administration just don't get it.  When you say these nations "support" the war, do you mean the governments or the people?  
The majority of European countries do NOT support the war in Iraq.  And the "Coalition of the Willing" should be renamed the "Coalition of the Coerced" few of whom are providing any material support in any case, and it ain't the people, it's the governments.  
After 9-11, I wept.   Americans asked "Why do they hate us" The world does not hate you.  They hate what various administrations have done in your name.  Like the secret carpet bombing of Cambodia resulting ultimately in the demand by students at the Uiversity of Texas, for example, that Henry Kissinger be tried for War crimes.  

Like US adventures in Chile (the deposition and murder of the democratically elected president), Guatamala, El Salvador, and now the attempts by the US to bring about the overthrow of the democratically elected President of Venezuela (whch the New York Times prematurely crowed about.  Then there's the Panama deception and Plan Colombia which is not really about drugs.

But then, you wouldn't know about these things because the US Media are in a war frenzy.  What I would suggest you do is look to media outside of the States to obtain some balance.

Read Noam Chomsky.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on April 03, 2003, 12:51:00 AM

Damn.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Anonymous on April 03, 2003, 01:08:00 AM

Just a question, has anyone here who defends your right to bare arms ever lived in a country that doesn't? Because I have, and it's quite obvious that the crime rate is lower and society runs with more arguement than threat.

Micheal Moore is a great person and I think that it was appropriate for him to say what he did considering what he won the award for.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: Froderik on April 03, 2003, 09:54:00 AM

I would never give up my right to "bare arms" even though I have tattoos all over them.  :rofl:
Seriously though, Anonymous, I'm not really into guns, but I firmly believe that we have the right to keep and bear 'em! As long as the cops can have them, then so should we! Period.
This topic is almost not worth discussing, and you'll never change my mind, or the minds of many others. Love it or leave it, pal!

[ This Message was edited by: AlexL on 2003-04-03 06:56 ]

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ClayL on April 03, 2003, 10:20:00 AM

On 2003-03-29 04:53:00, kpickle39 wrote: "300% over what?  that is the critical question.  If there were 10 shooting deaths in year 1, and it went up 300% in year 2.... then 300% ain't much.  Very easy to lie w/stats. "

Tell this to the additional victims....

CL

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ClayL on April 03, 2003, 10:43:00 AM

I would suspect that you require a blood tranfusion every day to prevent your bleeding heart from bleeding out. The source of my information is the London Times amoung others; people from academia included. What is the source of your pathetic diatribe?

Despite what you believe, most of the people executed inthe US are white males not black. Further, what makes you think that I think execution anything other than state sponsored murder?

Also, what's up with the use of the "N" word anyway? Surely didn't add anything to your arguments. I may be from the south, but that does not make me sheet wearing, bigoted, river bottom white trash. That you would think that seriously impinges on your ability for critical thinking. Further I resent the stereo type and wonder even more where you get your information. Probably from the television.

While the drug trade has a correlation to todays gun problem in GB, GB started passing gun laws shortly after WW1 because Parliment was worried about communism. Interestingly enough, GB started showing an increase in gun crime at the same time. Further, with each tightening of GB's gun laws there was a corresponding increase in gun crime. This is not something that has just gone POOF! we have a problem. It is something where a correclation can be shown to tightened laws.

I would suspect that you are one of our Canadian brethren from the Great White North. How's that Gun registery comming? Need another Billion or so to make it work? You do of course realize that the people in the hinterlands are not supportive of it don't you?

CL

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ClayL on April 03, 2003, 10:47:00 AM

Apologist?

Hey buddy, I not apologizeing for shit!

CL

PS Who the fuck is Noam Chomshy and why should I read him? From your writing he sounds like a Pinko Commie Bastard. I don't read things that piss me off much. I got enough of this liberal BS from my college professors. Now I make more than most of them.....

[ This Message was edited by: ClayL on 2003-04-03 07:47 ]

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: kpickle39 on April 03, 2003, 01:51:00 PM

I'm just saying that when you say things like you do, you should look at the entire picture, and the percentage increase and the raw numbers do make a diff....easy to lie w/stats.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: ClayL on April 03, 2003, 04:18:00 PM

I know, I don't think I was the one who played magical numbers. I'm just giving you shit, Kpickle39.

CL

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: kpickle39 on April 03, 2003, 04:25:00 PM

ok, sometimes I am too darn gullable.   LOL - take care, hope to see you in July.

Title: The Oscars...Michael Moore.
Post by: 85 Day Jerk on April 03, 2003, 04:46:00 PM

A year before I entered the program, I went hunting with my grandfather for the first time. I used his double barreled Remington .20 guage.  Up until that point I had only fired BB guns.  He showed me how to properly handle it, and the proper way to walk with one, barrel down, with the stock resting in the crook of the elbow.
    The first shot put nine holes in the can he had set on a log.  Second shot put 19 in the next can.  Thats gun control right there, hitting what you aimed at.  I did'nt rush right home afterwords and beg for a shotgun for Christmas, the only game to shoot in Largo Florida were Impalas, Cougars, Jaguars and an occasional Roadrunner.  They were illegal to hunt because they were made of glass and steel and had people inside them.  As for home defense, baseball bats get the job done too.  I don't own a gun simply because I don't need one.  A gun in the hand is alot like suicide......  a permanent solution to a temporary problem, especially when you are pointing one at someone you know.