Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 16, 2006, 02:46:37 PM
-
Since there are so many adults here that know in detail how not to run a teen boarding facility (face it, thats mostly what these places are), has anyone put serious thought into starting their own? It could be non-profit, and offer all the checks and balances that are discussed here.
Has anyone give this any thought before?
-
I'm against residential treatment, period. Court ordered, I don't know about. I'm talking about parents shipping their kids off. Community based treatment is the least invasive method.
-
Since there are so many adults here that know in detail how not to run a teen boarding facility (face it, thats mostly what these places are), has anyone put serious thought into starting their own? It could be non-profit, and offer all the checks and balances that are discussed here.
Has anyone give this any thought before?
Of course I have. So have others.
It's pretty simple... present it like a normal 'program', go 'escort' the kid at 3 am, and as soon as they're out of the parents neighborhood, spell it out to them:
If they play along, act repetant, bla bla bla, they can just hang out and play video games or whatever while there (Granted nothing is wrong with the kid) until you get enough kids incomes to hire teachers.
If the kid has an ACTUAL PROBLEM, spend that money on therapists.
Naturally, that kind of approach would attract a lot more negative attention than the torture/enslavement paradigm that is the current status quo, but as soon as I point out what the other guys do, well... :rofl:
-
why have the things at al? if a kid has a severe and dangerous drug problem then make rehabliltation affordable, work with the kid so that iti s not a punishment and only have a qualified professional make the recommendation as to the level of treatment needed
If the kid has a bonafide mental illness then they need a really good and patient doctor and perhaps the family may benefit from a support group of some kind who has some insight into their challenges.
It is worth bearing in mind that no other country has such "programmes" and American kids are statistically no more sexual, drug addicted or generally obnoxious and painful than their foreign peers. It seems to be parentings dirty little secret that kids are not always that lovable or easy to have around. if you can convince yourself that this means they need "treatment" it makes it a whole lot easier to have someone else take them off your hands when they are at their worst.
-
Since there are so many adults here that know in detail how not to run a teen boarding facility (face it, thats mostly what these places are), has anyone put serious thought into starting their own? It could be non-profit, and offer all the checks and balances that are discussed here.
Has anyone give this any thought before?
Starting one good program wouldn't put the bad ones out of business, or expose them for their practices. I disagree, also, that these places are simply "teen boarding facilit"ies. Call a spade a spade. They're unregulated behaviour modifications facilities (at best).
If I teen is not an immediate danger to him/herself or others he/she should not be institutionalized. Period. Let the teen deal with the consequences of his/her actions.
It is unfortunate that most parents think these programs somehow rationally convince teens of the error of thier ways. A brainwashed teen may behave in a more mature matter but it's all a generic program (in the computer sense) of an ideal boy/girl of which the parents would be proud to be parents. As far as i'm concerned, any involuntary modication of personality or self-image is criminal. It seems most people have very little respect for the sanctity of free will and the private confines of the mind. When the "modification" is perfomed by somebody with no proper qualifications, the consequences can be even worse.
Unfortunately, in most states(not California), practicing psychology does not require a licence as long as you don't call it "psychology" or refer to the practice as "therapy". Would you propose establishing a program with actually qualified therapists? Such places are commonly known as "funny farms"... But no parent would dare tolerate such a stigma in their family.
It is for this reason I do not think there is a valid reason for programs. There is either a school, or a mental instution. Trying to create an unlicenced middleground is asking for trouble.
-
I still have a standing offer that any parent can send the kid to me for half the price of a program.
And I'd do pretty much what the second reply said, only I wouldn't bother with hiring teachers. There does exist a public school system.
-
Wilderness Therapy
1) The parents should be there all the time. At no point, the child must be alone. All tasks has so be solved as a family.
2) If the child is taken from his or her room by a Escort Company, the parents should be there when the child arrives at the program.
3) Also in such case, no Wilderness Therapy before a proper intervention has been conducted at the base camp. Some crazy Ed con on TV says: ?You can not fix what you don?t acknowledge.? On that single account he is right.
4) Once completed, all goes home as a family problem solved or not. However, they are free to try once more.
Residential programs:
1) Must be court ordered or as result of a decision done by the social services, if the child?s life is at danger due to the family.
2) The child should have access to an unmonitored phone with 24-hour access to call 4 phone numbers: 1-2 to the parents, 1 to another family member and 1 to the authorities in his hometown.
3) The social service in his hometown must visit the facility once a month unannounced.
4) The therapists, who recommend the facility, must be paid by the social services. No economical connections must exist between the therapist and the facility.
5) No group mix between different kinds of problems. (Depressed children should be grouped with depressed children, Children with anger problems likewise with children with anger problems.)
6) Every child should have his own room in order to make it possible for the child to have his moments with his religion alone.
7) An organ recognized by United States Department of Education should accredit education.
Recently I have visited a friend at a psychiatric hospital in Denmark. When he was released I was present at a meeting as an assessor (Assessors are normal in Denmark because we consider the rights of the patient right very serious.). He was going into some kind of group therapy and now they are looking for the right group member. In order to archive the best result you cannot create a group of some patients. Their profiles and sicknesses have to fit.
-
Children with anger problems likewise with children with anger problems.
You can't be serious.
Just think on this one for a while.
-
Children with anger problems likewise with children with anger problems.
You can't be serious.
Just think on this one for a while.
You can not be expert on anything or everything. When I first read about these programs, I became surprised of how many problems these program claims that they can fix.
If a child has an anger problem, he or she needs to be with experts in this problem. We all needs to see that the problem is addressed and fixed in the shortest amount of time, so the child can return to his family.
Of course a program or school for children with anger issues would require one therapist per child. It will be expensive. But it will also be a short program, because if you work with a narrow target group the staff only needs to be experts in this problem.
And that is not what these programs is all about. They are in business to earn money. So they claim that they are the solution to all problems children can have.
-
You're missing my point. We're probably misunderstanding each other.
What happens when you group together kids with serious anger problems? (We already have such groupings. We call it 'prison'. What do angry inmates do to each other in prison?)
In fact, what happens when you group together depressed kids? "Hey, nice scars. But it's down the highway, not across the street." (this refers to suicide by wrist-slitting)
Even if you kept them mostly separated from each other, why would you allow a private company to do this at all? Why allow the profit motive to come into play?
-
I think to debate what sort of programme there should be is to miss the point. If huck finn or Holden Caufield lived today they would be sitting in a "programme" how wrong is that!
Given that:
-American kids take drugs at the same rate as their other western counterparts
-Enrolment at conservative christian colleges us up, thus american kids must to some extent have relatively conservative social values
-American kids get a little bit less sex put some how manage to get pregantant a bit more than their English and Australian counterparts
-American kids in many cities face harsh zero tolerance laws which are likely to place them in BIG legal trouble for staying out late, smoking pot or being sexually active in a way that their community finds distasteful
Perhaps some other things should be tried so that the need for programmes is not there
instead try these things
-Get rid of unfairly harsh Zero tolerance laws particularly for victimless crimes like drug use
-Get rid of public youth cerfews and leave such things in the hands of the family
-Get rid of the stigma surrounding mental illness. if you would not send a kid to have their "behaviour modified" for athsma or epilepsy then why is it ok for some programmes to accept kids with mental illnesses like bipolar disorder. Such conditions need to be treated by comptent doctors
- Do the same for aspergers. This is a bonafide medical condition not a sign that a kid needs to change their ways
-have publically subsidised help for all people (not just kids) who are genuinely developing a dependence on drugs and alcohol. have a professional help in the diagnosis of this so that only those who need it get help
- Have options for people who may not be addicts but feel they could use some help on this score because they are on a slippery slope
-Leave the occasional users alone. This is a universal fight between parent and kid
-Get rid of Abstenence training in public American schools. Tell kids the truth about sexuality and their body give relevant up to date info on contraception and std prevention.
-in private religious schools do the same in a biology class. If there is a separate religion class that says good christians only get it on after marriage fine, at least a vital part of the kids education is not denied.
-Avoid overdiagnosis of ADD and encourage medical professionals to work with families to leave no other stone unturned before meidicating kids. if you had been on a form of speed since age 8 would you not have a desire to do drugs?
-Recognise that brattiness is a hard thing to quantify. Deal with it the old fashioned way. Ground kids, Take the car keys or just dont buy them a car right away, vent to relatives and friends and seek counselling if necessary
After all of this has been tried see if there is still a need for programmes at all.
-
I still have a standing offer that any parent can send the kid to me for half the price of a program.
And I'd do pretty much what the second reply said, only I wouldn't bother with hiring teachers. There does exist a public school system.
I would send my kid to you...
-
In the program that I help direct, we recruit and train people to be mentors to children referred by guidance counselors, CPS, and other agencies. Our mentors outshine the social workers by far. Kids often grow to trust the mentors and get a chance to vent, without the mentor being judgemental or diagnostic. ADHD symptoms nearly always disappear during outings with the mentors. Unfortunately, it is difficult recruiting people to do this, especially men. 99.9% of the problems with these kids are due to the behavior of their parents or legal guardians.
-
I think to debate what sort of programme there should be is to miss the point. If huck finn or Holden Caufield lived today they would be sitting in a "programme" how wrong is that!
Given that:
-American kids take drugs at the same rate as their other western counterparts
-Enrolment at conservative christian colleges us up, thus american kids must to some extent have relatively conservative social values
-American kids get a little bit less sex put some how manage to get pregantant a bit more than their English and Australian counterparts
-American kids in many cities face harsh zero tolerance laws which are likely to place them in BIG legal trouble for staying out late, smoking pot or being sexually active in a way that their community finds distasteful
Perhaps some other things should be tried so that the need for programmes is not there
instead try these things
-Get rid of unfairly harsh Zero tolerance laws particularly for victimless crimes like drug use
-Get rid of public youth cerfews and leave such things in the hands of the family
-Get rid of the stigma surrounding mental illness. if you would not send a kid to have their "behaviour modified" for athsma or epilepsy then why is it ok for some programmes to accept kids with mental illnesses like bipolar disorder. Such conditions need to be treated by comptent doctors
- Do the same for aspergers. This is a bonafide medical condition not a sign that a kid needs to change their ways
-have publically subsidised help for all people (not just kids) who are genuinely developing a dependence on drugs and alcohol. have a professional help in the diagnosis of this so that only those who need it get help
- Have options for people who may not be addicts but feel they could use some help on this score because they are on a slippery slope
-Leave the occasional users alone. This is a universal fight between parent and kid
-Get rid of Abstenence training in public American schools. Tell kids the truth about sexuality and their body give relevant up to date info on contraception and std prevention.
-in private religious schools do the same in a biology class. If there is a separate religion class that says good christians only get it on after marriage fine, at least a vital part of the kids education is not denied.
-Avoid overdiagnosis of ADD and encourage medical professionals to work with families to leave no other stone unturned before meidicating kids. if you had been on a form of speed since age 8 would you not have a desire to do drugs?
-Recognise that brattiness is a hard thing to quantify. Deal with it the old fashioned way. Ground kids, Take the car keys or just dont buy them a car right away, vent to relatives and friends and seek counselling if necessary
After all of this has been tried see if there is still a need for programmes at all.
Where to start with all that you don't know? Who told you that only the USA has these programs? Whoever it was. . . WRONG. From the Slavik regions to Australia to Ireland and England, there are programs to address adolescent behavior issues. You also assume in an amazingly narrow way that causes are limited to drug addiction or mental health issues. How extraordinarily arrogant to assume, on top of all that, that if only all these bad people knew how to parent as well as you do, there would be no need for such programs. Yes, I'm sure none of the parents tried such obvious things as paying more attention, staying engaged in the child's life, trying to maintain structure in the family, getting the help of educators and counselors. They didn't try community-based methods, I'm sure, because they wanted to lay out the small fortune it costs to enroll your child in a residential program. You can bet they never tried the old reliables like grounding. Perhaps in your mind, becoming a parent creates a tendency toward utter incompetence and lack of imagination. For someone with all the answers, you have a profound disconnect with reality.
-
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Parents! The above poster wants control of your kid!
-
I think to debate what sort of programme there should be is to miss the point. If huck finn or Holden Caufield lived today they would be sitting in a "programme" how wrong is that!
Given that:
-American kids take drugs at the same rate as their other western counterparts
-Enrolment at conservative christian colleges us up, thus american kids must to some extent have relatively conservative social values
-American kids get a little bit less sex put some how manage to get pregantant a bit more than their English and Australian counterparts
-American kids in many cities face harsh zero tolerance laws which are likely to place them in BIG legal trouble for staying out late, smoking pot or being sexually active in a way that their community finds distasteful
Perhaps some other things should be tried so that the need for programmes is not there
instead try these things
-Get rid of unfairly harsh Zero tolerance laws particularly for victimless crimes like drug use
-Get rid of public youth cerfews and leave such things in the hands of the family
-Get rid of the stigma surrounding mental illness. if you would not send a kid to have their "behaviour modified" for athsma or epilepsy then why is it ok for some programmes to accept kids with mental illnesses like bipolar disorder. Such conditions need to be treated by comptent doctors
- Do the same for aspergers. This is a bonafide medical condition not a sign that a kid needs to change their ways
-have publically subsidised help for all people (not just kids) who are genuinely developing a dependence on drugs and alcohol. have a professional help in the diagnosis of this so that only those who need it get help
- Have options for people who may not be addicts but feel they could use some help on this score because they are on a slippery slope
-Leave the occasional users alone. This is a universal fight between parent and kid
-Get rid of Abstenence training in public American schools. Tell kids the truth about sexuality and their body give relevant up to date info on contraception and std prevention.
-in private religious schools do the same in a biology class. If there is a separate religion class that says good christians only get it on after marriage fine, at least a vital part of the kids education is not denied.
-Avoid overdiagnosis of ADD and encourage medical professionals to work with families to leave no other stone unturned before meidicating kids. if you had been on a form of speed since age 8 would you not have a desire to do drugs?
-Recognise that brattiness is a hard thing to quantify. Deal with it the old fashioned way. Ground kids, Take the car keys or just dont buy them a car right away, vent to relatives and friends and seek counselling if necessary
After all of this has been tried see if there is still a need for programmes at all.
Where to start with all that you don't know? Who told you that only the USA has these programs? Whoever it was. . . WRONG. From the Slavik regions to Australia to Ireland and England, there are programs to address adolescent behavior issues. You also assume in an amazingly narrow way that causes are limited to drug addiction or mental health issues. How extraordinarily arrogant to assume, on top of all that, that if only all these bad people knew how to parent as well as you do, there would be no need for such programs. Yes, I'm sure none of the parents tried such obvious things as paying more attention, staying engaged in the child's life, trying to maintain structure in the family, getting the help of educators and counselors. They didn't try community-based methods, I'm sure, because they wanted to lay out the small fortune it costs to enroll your child in a residential program. You can bet they never tried the old reliables like grounding. Perhaps in your mind, becoming a parent creates a tendency toward utter incompetence and lack of imagination. For someone with all the answers, you have a profound disconnect with reality.
Why don't you address the thread topic? Oh - that's right - you are the cliche internet bully. :rofl:
-
Where to start with all that you don't know? Who told you that only the USA has these programs? Whoever it was. . . WRONG. From the Slavik regions to Australia to Ireland and England, there are programs to address adolescent behavior issues.
.
Really. What are these programmes? Do you mean counselling services? Private drug rehabs that take voluntary patients? Hospitals which treat mental illness and eating disorders? Boarding schools which are centred primarily around education? Voluntary wilderness adventures and outward bound programmes which are not profit and largely take voluntary kids? Or jails which take kids who have broken the law to the extent that the judge cant have them living at home. None of these things are programmmes. None that i am aware of claim to "treat" entitlement or manipulation.
Which of these parts of the world have states or reigons that allow school districts to reommend a kid be placed on ADD meds before coming back into the class room. How many have youth curfews? Can you tell me which of the countries you have listed have Abstenence training in Public secular schools? Zero tolerance policies?
I am aware australia did adopt mandatory sentencing laws in 2 states after seeing what Zero Tolerance apparently did for New York under guiliani. They were then were forced to abandon them when when it turned out that small town indigenous kids were going to jail for stealing bags of chips from local delis and being exposed to real crims in jail and the judges who were forced to hand out such sentences protested strongly. (there was no "softer" wilderness or bootcamp option available)
-
Where to start with all that you don't know? Who told you that only the USA has these programs? Whoever it was. . . WRONG. From the Slavik regions to Australia to Ireland and England, there are programs to address adolescent behavior issues.
.
Really. What are these programmes? Do you mean counselling services? Private drug rehabs that take voluntary patients? Hospitals which treat mental illness and eating disorders? Boarding schools which are centred primarily around education? Voluntary wilderness adventures and outward bound programmes which are not profit and largely take voluntary kids? Or jails which take kids who have broken the law to the extent that the judge cant have them living at home. None of these things are programmmes. None that i am aware of claim to "treat" entitlement or manipulation.
Which of these parts of the world have states or reigons that allow school districts to reommend a kid be placed on ADD meds before coming back into the class room. How many have youth curfews? Can you tell me which of the countries you have listed have Abstenence training in Public secular schools? Zero tolerance policies?
I am aware australia did adopt mandatory sentencing laws in 2 states after seeing what Zero Tolerance apparently did for New York under guiliani. They were then were forced to abandon them when when it turned out that small town indigenous kids were going to jail for stealing bags of chips from local delis and being exposed to real crims in jail and the judges who were forced to hand out such sentences protested strongly. (there was no "softer" wilderness or bootcamp option available)
Your last paragraph is just too pinball to track, let alone address in a logical manner. Given that it also has nothing to do with programs, I'll pass.
Re: programs around the world: What do you think programs are? How do you define them? I'm particularly interested in what you think considering you've never seen one. Are they defined by the evil tactics they employ, (because I've worked at enough of them to realize most of the stories about abuse are utter BS). What is it you think they do? How do you define them? How does one distinguish between drug rehab, treatment centers, and alternative programs? The fact is, many of them are extremely innovative and have the nerve--and compassion--to defy the stilted and ineffective models to which you refer.
-
Observe the true apologist at his craft: Misdirection, refusal to directly answer questions, and constant attempted belittlement of anything he doesn't like. It's only going to get worse till he leaves, folks.
No, asshole, you fucking define a program if you know so much of what you're talking about.
You have a lot of nerve, but no compassion. You're not fooling anyone to believe otherwise.
I've worked at enough of them to realize most of the stories about abuse are utter BS
Why don't you meet SCL Survivor face-to-face and tell him that? Or maybe Cowdude or RobertBruce or, hey! How about former staff DJ and TSW?
Nope, no credible reports of abuse there, no sir. And Michelle Sutton wasn't killed in the Utah wilderness from dehydration, she's just pining for the fjords. Angellika Arndt wasn't killed for gargling milk, she's.. just sleeping. Yeah, that's it. She'll wake up bright and early tomorrow and play with her dolls and not worry about things like being put in a "restraint hold" for an hour at a time.
Hmm.. nope. I still don't have any reality-editing powers. Damn. Looks like the previous paragraph- and pretty much everything you've said- is all bullshit.
-
Observe the true apologist at his craft: Misdirection, refusal to directly answer questions, and constant attempted belittlement of anything he doesn't like. It's only going to get worse till he leaves, folks.
No, asshole, you fucking define a program if you know so much of what you're talking about.
You have a lot of nerve, but no compassion. You're not fooling anyone to believe otherwise.
I've worked at enough of them to realize most of the stories about abuse are utter BS
Why don't you meet SCL Survivor face-to-face and tell him that? Or maybe Cowdude or RobertBruce or, hey! How about former staff DJ and TSW?
Nope, no credible reports of abuse there, no sir. And Michelle Sutton wasn't killed in the Utah wilderness from dehydration, she's just pining for the fjords. Angellika Arndt wasn't killed for gargling milk, she's.. just sleeping. Yeah, that's it. She'll wake up bright and early tomorrow and play with her dolls and not worry about things like being put in a "restraint hold" for an hour at a time.
Hmm.. nope. I still don't have any reality-editing powers. Damn. Looks like the previous paragraph- and pretty much everything you've said- is all bullshit.
Let me just add on to that by saying that the abuse accusations are so utterly consistent over such a long span of time among such disparate people that its either a very well done conspiracy, or they're telling the truth.
That's all! :lol:
-
How was my post too pinball to track? My original post if you had read it at all was about the fact that factors like zero tolerance laws, kids being medicated earlier and for longer and other public policy decisions in the US are what contribute to the "need" for programmes. They both shape public opinion and make it easier for kids to be at risk. They also encourage the idea that rehabilitation of real problems should be punitive and that US kids are out of control when the statistics dont support this. I dont believe it even mentioned the parents of kids who went to programmes.
As to whether i have been to a programme, you are right, i have not. I also have not been to Abu Ghraib or guantanamo bay but i do believe organisatons such as Amnesty international and the red cross when they say that there is abuse.
But as you want a case study of a standard "teen industry" programme in the US lets look at Academy at Swift River. Perhaps you can explain to me the therapudic value of some of the policies which Dave marcus outlined in What it takes to pull me through. Afterall in his preface he claims that when he went to the school it was an industry leader. Here are some questions that book raised with me.
Why did a boy who was in for impulsive behaviour continually get "banned" from hanging out with a boy who was known for being mature and calm. Surely this is a friendship they would encourage. What was their paranoia about kids like DJ and Tyrone developing friendships?
Why would they send a girl with an eating disorder on a rigourous wilderness programme. Rudy Benz had discribed her as being dangerously thin.
What good interrogating Ashley did? While they finally forced her to admit to a sexual relationship with phil, the process of writing truth lists and confessing to all of her peers was so degarding that she threw herself in front of a car. Surely people who are experts with troubled kids would be aware that this kind of public humiliation could tip an emotionally fragile girl over the edge.
In fact what is the specific therapudic benefit of truth lists and public confession at all?
What was the therapudic benefit of making kids write lists of things wrong with them? (DJ)
Why were all the kids strip searched when entering base camp, including those who had not done drugs? Afterall mainstream drug rehabs dont even do this.
How did ASR "help" Trevor. All the Smile bans in the world could not prevent him from "speedballing" on his first exeat weekend
In fact while we are on the subject of kids not helped ehat about tanner? he died in a drug overdose at age 20. Did ASR's brand of therapy help him? or his poor grief stricken father who ended up robbing a randon shop because his sadness tipped him over the edge.
Did forcing a girl with a devoutly Catholic upbringing to confess all of her sexual acts publically show a level of cultural sensitivity you would expect of a specialist programme? I would argue not. And i note it did not stop Bianca from getting pregnant 1/2 2 years into college.
And if this was one of the more sucessful peer groups, and Dave claims it was, then how much did the Academy help the other kids?
Which troubled youth programmes in Australia, the UK , ireland or Slovakia employ such methods? Also I am curious If you do know of such programmes in these countries are they for profit?
-
The troll's anger and self-righteous tone are enough for me to stay clear of programs. We, of course, know nothing. They, of course, know all.
Who would entrust their kid to someone who says all accusations of abuse are "BS?" Not me.
I find it particularly offensive when the troll declares that the other 'stilted' measures are ineffective. He/she should read the article about Milwaukee's wrap-around program which was so successful it all but shut down the residential approach in the City.
But when the troll asks Oz Girl to state what practices are not practiced outside the USA, that is easy to answer. Show me one other country that has 'escort services' handcuff children and drag them off at their parents' whim. That, troll, is a uniquely American practice.
-
"because I've worked at enough of them to realize most of the stories about abuse are utter BS"
You may be interested to know that one of the largest and most succesful programmes, CEDU family of services, was felled partially due to lawsuits based on abuse. So whether or not you think it is BS, at least one jury has disagreed with you, and you are crazy if you think CEDU didn't have an adequite defense fund. A year at CEDU cost more than a year at Stanford.
Moving on to the main point of this thread, I would not attempt to start a better programme. This is partially because I lack the quailfication. One of my key issues with these sort of programmes is the fact that they are generally not based on established therapeutic methods and generally not run by qualified individuals. My program would not be different in that regard.
-
Staff Personality Disorder 601.83
A pervasive pattern of condescension, degradation of others, and controlling behavior beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1. Condescending or degrading use of body language, vocal inflection, and behavior.
2. Presentation of two or more markedly different personality styles based entirely on context.
3. Persistent protection of people in positions of power even if such people have done something unethical or illegal.
4. Employment in one of the "helping professions", or other situations in which a person has or can secure power over others.
5. Rigidity in application of rules and explanations to other people
6. Persistent or stereotyped use of euphemisms, jargon, deceptive language, and double standards in language
7. Persistent use of degradation, ridicule, and violence, either gratuitously or grossly out of proportion to the situation.
-
How was my post too pinball to track? My original post if you had read it at all was about the fact that factors like zero tolerance laws, kids being medicated earlier and for longer and other public policy decisions in the US are what contribute to the "need" for programmes. They both shape public opinion and make it easier for kids to be at risk. They also encourage the idea that rehabilitation of real problems should be punitive and that US kids are out of control when the statistics dont support this. I dont believe it even mentioned the parents of kids who went to programmes.
As to whether i have been to a programme, you are right, i have not. I also have not been to Abu Ghraib or guantanamo bay but i do believe organisatons such as Amnesty international and the red cross when they say that there is abuse.
But as you want a case study of a standard "teen industry" programme in the US lets look at Academy at Swift River. Perhaps you can explain to me the therapudic value of some of the policies which Dave marcus outlined in What it takes to pull me through. Afterall in his preface he claims that when he went to the school it was an industry leader. Here are some questions that book raised with me.
Why did a boy who was in for impulsive behaviour continually get "banned" from hanging out with a boy who was known for being mature and calm. Surely this is a friendship they would encourage. What was their paranoia about kids like DJ and Tyrone developing friendships?
Why would they send a girl with an eating disorder on a rigourous wilderness programme. Rudy Benz had discribed her as being dangerously thin.
What good interrogating Ashley did? While they finally forced her to admit to a sexual relationship with phil, the process of writing truth lists and confessing to all of her peers was so degarding that she threw herself in front of a car. Surely people who are experts with troubled kids would be aware that this kind of public humiliation could tip an emotionally fragile girl over the edge.
Aah. the dirts lists. Yeah that brings back memories. Mine was always incomplete for some reason. The staff always kept handing them back. "You missed something. You know what". Sometimes I did. Sometimes I didn't. In either case, it didn't seem right to rat people out for pointless shit like "breaking bans" which could actually get them into real trouble. Most of the time they were just handing it back to see if they could squeeze out something more. By comparing the lists in group as they were being written, by a process of elimination, they were pretty effective in discovering just about everything that went on. Snitches were rewarded handsomely. It's a nice bit of ethics to teach kids.
In fact what is the specific therapudic benefit of truth lists and public confession at all?
You get them to "face up to their shit". That's therapeutic ... ish.. kind of:rofl:. They have to face the truth of what they did (or any rumor, which became truth after enough people wrote it down). So dirt lists teaches kids truth. Yes that's it. The virtues of truth and hearsay.
I'm not sure how much about dirt lists are understood but i'll explain why the programmers use it. In order to initiate proper reprogramming of the mind, the programmer must appear to have almost supernatural control over the environment, creating a "big brother" atmosphere where you feel you are being watched by informants all the time (and you were... you never knew what peers were writing down on their dirt lists. If they didn't have anything good, they would put down rumors). This type of "peer based" surveillance was commonly practiced in "communist" countries where almost a third of the entire population were informants. With dirt lists, it's worse, you never knew who you could trust, as even you were an informant.
If you, person A, knew about something, and person F wrote "person B kissed person C, and person A and person D saw it happen" you would have to do one of two things:
Option 1Write nothing, and hope nobody else did. Taking the chance that if they find out you knew about it, you would be in shit. Generally only level 1s took this option since Level 2s would lose their levels for that sort of behavior. Chances are the staff is going to hand the dirt list back as incomplete in any case. They like to do that to see if they can squeeze any more information out. Since you don't know whether or not Person A, B, C, D wrote down, or what is on person F's dirt list, you have to weight the probability that staff knows about the horrid act (kissing) and if they do, you might as well attempt to carry favor by writing down "I , person A, saw Person C kiss person B, person D was also there and saw it happen." You may ask, "Well how did person F" get to know about it. Well none of us ever knew exactly how either. Somebody had loose lips but you never knew who. If you kept denying things, and eventually even person B, and C confessed, you would end up being in even bigger trouble then they would be. It is at this point when you are fined up the yin-yang and given "work ethic".
Option 2"I , person A, saw Person C kiss person B, person D was also there and saw it happen." Hey. If you wanted to emotionally grow yourself up to level 2 you had to fuck some people over on the way. Eventually they would convince themselves that they were doing the right thing, "helping the others", by forcing them to "face their shit". Privacy was a non-issue.
The overall effect on the psyche of the kid eventually is. "Well i guess i can't get away with anything, i have not privacy, i should just give in" (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing10.html). Only you wouldn't succeed if you did that either, by the time you realized that out, you were Isolated from the rest of the student population for "spreading negativity". With this method they could instill a sense of powerlessness into a person and get them ready for "Friendship Workshop" / "Propheets" where they would place the final straw on your back so you would decompensate (see above link) and they could subesquently obliterate your sense of self.
The tactics of a thought reform program are organized to destabilize individuals' sense of self by getting them to drastically reinterpret their life's history, radically alter their world view, accept a new version of reality and causality, and develop dependency on the organization, thereby being turned into a deployable agent of the organization operating the thought reform program.
What was the therapudic benefit of making kids write lists of things wrong with them? (DJ)
Aah. The rap sheets. Therapeutic value.. lemme see. Well you got to discuss your issues in raps(group). If you didn't put down three "legitimate" "issues" on your rap sheet, staff would bring up a "legitimate" issue for you. Well I guess it taught kids to "face their shit"... It taught sexually abused kids how to talk about their experiences with "daddy" in public. Hmm. People got "called out" when staff thought they were not being forthcoming enough. Confrontation was encouraged. Hmm. I suppose that's therapeutic.
Why were all the kids strip searched when entering base camp, including those who had not done drugs? Afterall mainstream drug rehabs dont even do this.
Why? You never know when they might have a twenty dollar bill, or more in their sock. God forbid they decided to leave before the refund period.
How did ASR "help" Trevor. All the Smile bans in the world could not prevent him from "speedballing" on his first exeat weekend
In fact while we are on the subject of kids not helped ehat about tanner? he died in a drug overdose at age 20. Did ASR's brand of therapy help him? or his poor grief stricken father who ended up robbing a randon shop because his sadness tipped him over the edge.
Did forcing a girl with a devoutly Catholic upbringing to confess all of her sexual acts publically show a level of cultural sensitivity you would expect of a specialist programme?
Well maybe it.... Nope. I can't even find a sarcastic justification for that one. Yeah I saw similar disclosures happen more than a few times and I wouldn't exactly describe it as sensitive.
I would argue not. And i note it did not stop Bianca from getting pregnant 1/2 2 years into college.
And if this was one of the more sucessful peer groups, and Dave claims it was, then how much did the Academy help the other kids?
Which troubled youth programmes in Australia, the UK , ireland or Slovakia employ such methods? Also I am curious If you do know of such programmes in these countries are they for profit?
I don't know of any. Odd that. Wonder why there aren't any people on Fornits from those places. Hmm. Makes you wonder. Sorry for the long post. I would suggest letting the programmie continue to put his foot in his mouth. The more they type, the more they embarrass themselves. They are used to a less knowledgeable audience.
PS: I'm going on vacation for a week and might not have net access. If you need to contact me my cell has roaming.