Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Nihilanthic on November 14, 2006, 06:08:14 PM
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http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ ... 2;t=001300 (http://www.strugglingteens.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001300)
Fledderwitch
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Icon 9 posted November 07, 2006 11:53 PM Profile for Fledderwitch Email Fledderwitch Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Daughter says she will never forgive us for sending her to a TBS. She is in college now not doing real well but not real bad either. Has anyone else had this thrown in their face? Posts: 2 | From: PA | Registered: Feb 2005 | Logged: 75.117.144.102 | Report this post to a Moderator
Darian
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 06:08 AM Profile for Darian Email Darian Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Yes. Our daughter told her current therapist that she would never forgive us for sending her away. She said this about 2 years ago and I don't think she feels so strongly about this anymore. Time does heal many wounds.
We have to realize that when we take the drastic step of sending our children to a TBS or RTC, that they may, in fact, hold a grudge against us for the rest of their lives. We told our daughter that it was better to have a pissed-off kid than a dead one. Our girl was one of those hard-core cases whose body would have been found in a cornfield one day if we didn't have her secured somewhere.
Don't fret about it. She is alive. She is going to school and moving forward with her life. Had she not gone to a TBS, where would she be now?
I'm sending you a private message. Posts: 38 | From: Indiana | Registered: Sep 2001 | Logged: 74.133.96.87 | Report this post to a Moderator
mose
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 06:24 AM Profile for mose Email mose Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Not to be rude but did you send them to one of those notorious programs that are punitive and abuse the children, you know the ones, the owners are alwasy in the news about being being sued by parents and children?
[ November 08, 2006, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: mose ] Posts: 1021 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2002 | Logged: 69.203.106.219 | Report this post to a Moderator
mose
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 06:54 AM Profile for mose Email mose Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Hi Darian,
I want to clarify that my somewhat pointed post was addressing "Fedderwitch" who I am not convinced is really a parent. I think it is a troll playing with our emotions about having a child still angry that they were sent for help at a TBS.
I think young adults can be angry with their parents for all types of reasons. The depth of their experience is as complicated as ours having to send them away for help.
And sometimes they say things to push for greater autonomy from the family, or because they were hurt and want us to understand the depth of their pain. Other times they just push our buttons and know how guilty we feel about the whole mess their adolescence became.
I like to believe that most parents and children figure out a way to heal the past emotional wounds. We have all been through so much therapeutic speak and know how to do this. Especially parents that realizes in retrospect they were misled and made a mistake sending a child to a placement that was punitive or harmful. If it harmed the child, I know first hand it harmed the parent to know their kid was hurt by their best intentions.
I made a mistake with a placement at a psych hospital that mistreated my daughter, she forgave us, and I sometimes forgive myself for that placement.
mose Posts: 1021 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2002 | Logged: 69.203.106.219 | Report this post to a Moderator
exhausted
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 04:59 PM Profile for exhausted Email exhausted Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote i don't personally think it can ever be considered a mistake to send your child somewhere that will keep them alive and hopefully bring them out as a better person
I have to be honest when I say I'd have preffered to have been sent to a hospital or any program even if they mistreated me than been allowed to carry on the way I did as a youngster, the very fact no-one cared enough to stop me has caused more mental harm than any program could ever have done......young ppl just don't see it until they are mature enough to understand that it was done out of love and fear for them
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Help help help help help ......
Posts: 68 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 84.71.104.18 | Report this post to a Moderator
WillieNelson
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Icon 1 posted November 08, 2006 05:08 PM Profile for WillieNelson Email WillieNelson Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Mose- I had the same first reaction, but the OP has been registered for awhile. We'll see if the poster returns.
My kid claimed that he would never forgive us for sending him to a program and would not be part of our family- that was while he was in the program. He has never even questioned our decision since he got out 2 1/2 years ago. He thinks he "could have done OK with just wilderness", but understands our position and is grateful for how things fell into place for him post-program. Time does heal.... Posts: 27 | From: Way up north | Registered: Aug 2006 | Logged: 72.150.102.92 | Report this post to a Moderator
mose
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Icon 1 posted November 09, 2006 08:09 AM Profile for mose Email mose Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Hi Exhausted
I do think there are placements that are truly detrimental to our children?s well being and the parents. My daughter needed to e saved form herself so treatment was no longer an option or choice she had to have help. I understand and my heart goes out to you and what you are saying by feeling neglected because your family did not help you enough to gather insight to your dangerous acting out as an adolescent.
We had a terrible sitution when my daughter was hospitalized she was shot up with thorzine, and put in a basement cell at the psychiatric hospital. It is one of the premier private hospitals and if I did not go to visit her that day and see with my own eyes, what they did to her I would not have believed it possible. My daughter was in a very difficult time in her life and completely out of control (and coming down off a cocaine addiction, we did not grasp the extent of her addiction at that time) however no child ever deserves that type of treatment.
Naturally, I took her home that day against medical orders; I fired her psychiatrist and reported the incident. We transferred her to another hospital (she could not go to drug rehab, or wilderness or any type of program unless she had medical clearance). It was a mess to say the least.
By transferring her, (thankfully she sees it as rescuing her) this helped to heal the deep psyche wounds from the ordeal. I believed her (and I saw with my own eyes). She needed me to believe what she told us about what led up to the incident and how they were treating the children. I believed every word she told us.
In all of the following placements after that one, I believed my daughter, she told some remarkable revealing truths about her self. We were fortunate that the other placemats were wonderful and she had then only loving kind and nurturing experiences at drug rehab and a two yr placement at a therapeutic boarding school.
Thanks for reading this far [Eek!]
Take care, mose Posts: 1021 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2002 | Logged: 69.203.106.219 | Report this post to a Moderator
mose
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Icon 1 posted November 09, 2006 08:16 AM Profile for mose Email mose Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Wille,
Fedderwitch seems like a real parent she sent me a private post and claims she is.
O well I could be wrong (maybe [Big Grin] )
Mose
[ November 09, 2006, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: mose ] Posts: 1021 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2002 | Logged: 69.203.106.219 | Report this post to a Moderator
exhausted
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Icon 1 posted November 09, 2006 03:40 PM Profile for exhausted Email exhausted Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote I understand waht you are saying Mose, I do feel even to this day that I wasn't loved or cared about enough to be stopped, even though your daughter hada terrible exoperience, at least you loved her enough to place her in what you believed to be a safe situation - I'm truly sorry there are places out there that take advantage of these poor kids' vunerabilities and hope she will put it down to a horrible mistake on whoever is supposed to regulate theses places part and not you!
Luckily parents have gut instinct, yours naturally would have been not to believe a word that came out of her mouth at that time, however, you somehow knew she was telling the truth, I believe that you having that faith in her when she really wasn't trying yet another trick took her a long way in her road to recovery
Lord we are fantastic parents [Big Grin]
P.S. Fledderwitch is a parent with a problem as far as I can tell
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Help help help help help ......
Posts: 68 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2006 | Logged: 84.65.169.53 | Report this post to a Moderator
KimzMom
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Icon 1 posted November 10, 2006 06:07 AM Profile for KimzMom Email KimzMom Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Fledderwitch did you ask your daughter why she won't forgive you?? I find it hard to think she just blurted this out. What was the context in which this was said?
When my daughter returned, she was very bothered by having graduated HS from her TBS. She didn't know what to put on job applications when they asked for education. She thought EVERYONE would know she must have had issues if she put the name of the school. Also, she didn't talk at all about Utah or the school for the first year. Now its been almost 4 years and she sometimes mentions "school", or kids there or her experiences. Never are they negative coments. She even has offerred to help a local kid who just came home from a year at a TBS transition back. All this from the girl who litterally jumped out of the back of the plane when she arrived in Utah w/her escort (and I DO mean jumped)!
There was a time when I NEVER thought she would come around, but she has!
Unless your daughter has eluded to some abuse or something bad, you just have to let these comments roll off your back. They may just be some lingering manipulation.
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19 Yr old daughter home since 2/04 and doing great!
Posts: 190 | From: Upstate, New York | Registered: Mar 2003 | Logged: 70.165.184.239 | Report this post to a Moderator
JBH
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Icon 1 posted November 10, 2006 10:17 AM Profile for JBH Email JBH Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote I am not trying to start an arguement but say a daughters prospective on what I went through.
I have not forgiven my parents for sending me away and they have said they have not forgiven me for some of the stuff I did. I did not have a good experience ans still live with effects of what happened most of it is because of what one therapist did and not the program but I don't agree with how the program was run either. I told my mom that the day they left me at my first program I felt abandoned and she said that's not how it was, whether is was or it wasn't doesn't change how I felt on that day. The therapist I lived with after my first program told me that my parents don't want to hear or accept that what they did hurt thier child. I know in order for me to heal I have to forgive them for sending me away and hopefully I will sooner rather than later. I don't even care that much if they agree with me I just want them to look at things from my prospective and see that is wasn't all great.
They said they ran out of options which I disagree with because I was suppose to go into a program in Seattle that I lived at a place and had to go to school and get a job and make a weekly menu, go to the store and cook your own meals. To me that program would have been a lot more real life application that I could have actually used not learning how to go around and say to people my experience of you is... Posts: 1 | From: Seattle, WA | Registered: Nov 2006 | Logged: 67.168.95.147 | Report this post to a Moderator
exhausted
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Icon 1 posted November 10, 2006 03:39 PM Profile for exhausted Email exhausted Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Hi JBH
I feel very sad you're having such a tough time with accepting what happened
All I can say to you from a parents point of view is that it takes real courage to send your child away in order to help them, it really is an absolute heart breaker wondering if you've done the right thing, are they safe, will they ever forgive me, and the missing your child is almost like going through the grieving process, it really hurts
On the other hand I do understand how you feel, as a child who was constantly shoved from kids homes and foster parents, although it was not through my behaviour, it was through the behaviour of my mother, so I was the victim of her issues and instability as a person, I'm not sure I will ever forgive her for doing that to me, I know for fact I will never understand it, but, it happened and I'm not going to let it ruin my life because I cannot change it, I want to shape my future, not waste time on being bitter about the past
I hope this makes some sense to you and I also hope you can one day realise that your parents did whatever it took to help you, don't beat yourself up if it takes years to come to that realisation, just promise yourself you'll try to make it a goal in life to get to the point of letting it go, you'll be far happier for it
Take care
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Help help help help help ......
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CarolS
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Icon 2 posted November 10, 2006 07:22 PM Profile for CarolS Email CarolS Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote On the drive home from a detox unit about a year ago, my then 20 year old daughter told me how much she resented our sending her away for 2 1/2 years from age 14 to treatment centers and TBS. My first instinct was to defend my position. She was able to accept that she needed to go away initially or she might not have survived, but she challenged whether she had to stay away as long as she did. I was able to really question myself and humbly admit that perhaps in retrospect it became easier for us to keep her away than to face further disruption in our lives. We were doing what we were advised to do and we also were concerned about the potential impact to our younger daughter - yet, as she pointed out, she suffered greatly the last year and is still working on those feelings of abandonment. When we did bring her home, there were indeed continuing problems which eventually centered around the theme of addiction. The latest research I read on the subject suggests that addiction may stem from early childhood attachment issues. In any case, we have been through a lot together. Life is good right now - although we no longer ever become complacent. I talk to my daughter daily now - usually she makes the call - and I really think the conversation we had that day made a big difference. Good luck to all. Posts: 87 | From: NY | Registered: Feb 2000 | Logged: 68.175.11.62 | Report this post to a Moderator
Anne from Minnesota
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Icon 1 posted November 11, 2006 08:02 AM Profile for Anne from Minnesota Email Anne from Minnesota Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote To Fledderwitch; my heart goes out to you, it sounds like you did what you really thought was best for your child, given the circumstances. And yet she is not, at this point, either accepting of, or grateful for, what I know was a hard, hard decision.
In our family, we were pretty lucky because at the school my son attended, we went through the "never forgive" frame of mind while he was still at the school. So we were able to work a lot out there.
And by the time he was home, even when we were in disagreement aobut something, the playing field was 1) his pre-TBS behaviors were clearly something that he would not allow to happen his kids if he had children of his own and 2) his knowing that we, as parents, had done the best we could, given the situation and the people we all were at the time.
In my work, I see parent-child problems frequently and it's obvious to the point of being a truism, in both work and life in general, that kids and adults process experiences in many different ways. Equally obvious that every situation is individual.
I would strongly suggest that if a child has finished a program and is still notably ambivalent about the parents' choice to send him/her in the first place, then have some kind of aftercare (with a clergy person, loved elder in the family, counselor, life coach, whatever) if an within-family discussion doesn't put the issue to rest. No point in letting resentment and disunderstanding fester and poison life going forward
Don't despair Fledderwitch, this may not be permanent. It may be just be the way that your child has to fight the whole experience through, given her own demons, strengths, and personal way of being in the world.
Just my opinion, but from what I've seen, your best response is to let her know that whatever decision you made, 1) it was done out of love and concern for her and 2) it was the best you could do (given who you were, the choices available to you, and what you knew at that point in your life). Earlier, I commented, I think on this thread that if I had known more about parenting and teenagers in the years before we placed our child in a TBS, then perhaps I could have been more proactive and this step wouldn't have been needed. I don't see anything wrong in admitting to this, others may feel differently. But in my experience at least, some honest vulnerability can sometimes enrich a dialogue.
Also, I do know families where the child never did come to the point of thinking that the school experience was the right decision, but still came to accept why parents made that choice, with a resulting loving family relationship that was able to put the whole experience into an "agree-to-disagree" category. Posts: 5 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Feb 2004 | Logged: 24.118.46.220 | Report this post to a Moderator
techdad
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Icon 1 posted November 11, 2006 05:14 PM Profile for techdad Email techdad Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
quote:Originally posted by Anne from Minnesota:
To Fledderwitch; my heart goes out to you, it sounds like you did what you really thought was best for your child, given the circumstances. And yet she is not, at this point, either accepting of, or grateful for, what I know was a hard, hard decision.
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Just my opinion, but from what I've seen, your best response is to let her know that whatever decision you made, 1) it was done out of love and concern for her and 2) it was the best you could do (given who you were, the choices available to you, and what you knew at that point in your life).
While reading this, I couldn't help but imagine this: subsitute "parent" for "child", fast forward thirty years and imagine that the above was written by your adult child, discussing his or her difficult decision to place you in a nursing home, hoping they made a wise choice and that you wouldn't have a "never forgive you" attitude about it.
[ November 11, 2006, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: techdad ] Posts: 32 | From: AZ | Registered: Jun 2006 | Logged: 68.3.26.171 | Report this post to a Moderator
Anne from Minnesota
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Icon 1 posted November 11, 2006 06:11 PM Profile for Anne from Minnesota Email Anne from Minnesota Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Interesting observation, techdad.
Nobody in my family has ever been in a nursing home actually, we've always managed to pull together somehow to care for the physicailly or mentally incapacitated at home, and to the end.
Hope that continues, btw, if I become one of the incapacitated.
But if I did in fact become unable to care for myself (actually unable, I'm not talking about the scenario of the evil son making a power grab for poor old mom's $$$) and my family really could not, for some reason, care for me, well, I'd expect them to work with me to the level of mental capacity that I had to find the best place possible to me.
Maybe some people think that a "good" son or daughter should sit back, in some confused parody of personal freedom, and let a mother with say, advanced dementia, sit around unaware in soiled diapers and at risk of burning to death in her home because she can't remember to turn off the stove.
That isn't love to me. So in our family, happily we trust our child to do the very best that he would be able to for us in that hopefully hypothetical circumstance, as he (now) believes that we did and would do for him when he was in trouble.
In this uncertain world, I can only wish the same level of trust for you and your family members. Posts: 5 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Feb 2004 | Logged: 24.118.46.220 | Report this post to a Moderator
galen
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Icon 1 posted November 14, 2006 05:19 AM Profile for galen Email galen Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote This hits home for me. Not only do we have a 16 yr old son in a TBS, but my elderly mother fell in her apartment. Thank goodness nothing was broken! She was hospitalized for a day and is now in a skilled nursing facility for therapy and rehab. She had moved into assisted living from a regular apartment only a week before the fall. She has been diagnosed with dementia and was doing well enough until the summer. She began to go downhill at around the same time we sent our son to WC. The decline has been very rapid since her move to assisted living last month. I am so overwhelmed. I can't remember the last night I actually got some sleep! Needless to say, everyone is b*tching and complaining. We get nasty phone calls from our son at TBS, and my Mom is upset and angry, too. Frankly, I hate to imagine what DS will choose for us as we age!
To top it off, we are also in the process of applying to private high schools for our very academic eighth grade son, who wants to go to a competitive boarding school out-of-state. As if we had the time (or money) ... although we are still checking out the options ... Posts: 29 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Jul 2006 | Logged: 67.10.187.238
Wow. This makes me livid.
"B-b-but we did the most we could! It was out of LOVE! Nevermind we ignored your pleas for help becuase the program told us to, we really truly did it for YOU! And right now we're not defending it for ourselves its so you can accept what happened!
:flame: I'm gonna go try to forget about this for a while. Jesus FUCKING Christ I can't believe this happens so much, but OH WELL.
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(http://http://www.ftou.gr/button3/stuff/puke/puke.jpg)
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We told our daughter that it was better to have a pissed-off kid than a dead one. Our girl was one of those hard-core cases whose body would have been found in a cornfield one day if we didn't have her secured somewhere.
:rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:P
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I can't even read it. I have a headache already... and i just found the rest of my school files today. God how can parents be so stupid.
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Nihil.
1 have you no ability to summarize, then maybe refer readers to the source
2 if u must copy, at least please clean it up to help readability
3 if the topic so offends others - the subsequent posters - and presuming you share goals/interests, why disgust them so much?
psy ... how can kids be so stupid?
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psy ... how can kids be so stupid?
WTF! Do kids have a choice most of the time? What do you mean kids? Sure some of em screw up from time to time but that's a normal part of growing up (not that program would tell you that). When they're sent to program they are portrayed as little monsters to their parents until they believe it. If kids want to get their "level" they better be damn sure to further this illusion in supervised phone calls. "Oh Dad, Mom, I was headed for jail. I'm so glad these people are here to help me. Thank you for giving me this opportunity" Eventually, some kids even start to believe it themselves (especially after intense BM). Even then, most of them realize (usually after a year or so), that they will never be allowed to graduate as long as their parents keep forking over the dough. Once you get a level, you will inevitably lose it for something as inane as "negitive attitude towards program" or "breaking bans". They will find a reason, and as soon as the kids realize how they are being played they really become a handful for the program and parents don't understand why they would be upset: EG: "Why is he acting out all of a sudden, he was doing so well". Where I was they isolated them at this point to avoid the "negativity" spreading. The parents are never told the real (if any) reasons for "consequences." The programs make up fairy tales to make you look like satan incarnate. After all the things they tell your parents. Who would want you back.
And that's the point. That's how they make their money. Whether they keep you at their program or pack you off to one of their back rubbing buddies it's all the same result in the end: Instutuionalized until the age of 18 / however long they can profit from you, then dropped on the streets as failures. But who knows. Maybe the streets will set the little fuckers straight!?!?
Kids are the pawns of the staff in these programs whether they realize it or not. Sure you might be able to hold them accountable for actions before program, but once in program i hold them blameless. How could they be so stupid?!?! Hah! They have little choice. They are fucked if they follow the program and fucked if they rebel. It's not called the "fuck-its" in program for nothing.
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that was me above. forgot to login
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Nihil.
1 have you no ability to summarize, then maybe refer readers to the source
2 if u must copy, at least please clean it up to help readability
3 if the topic so offends others - the subsequent posters - and presuming you share goals/interests, why disgust them so much?
psy ... how can kids be so stupid?
- I would rather let people decide for themselves than summarize
- I can figure it out, and so did psy and MGDP
- Just becuase it's hard to stomach, and makes me angry, does not mean it should not be addressed. And its "discuss them so much" not disgust. Anyway, yes, its offensive, but that does not mean it is OK and should be tolerated or not discussed.
Also, on the troll-o-scope, I give you 8/10
P.S. the cookies are broke.
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Actually, the programmie did mean "disgust them so much", but it misses the point; this is fucking disgusting. Welcome to Fornits.
Also, if you're going to quote ST, it's best to quote in full without a link; since they have no integrity they may edit anything and everything at any time. "We are currently at war with Eurasia", anyone?
P.S. the cookies are broke.
I noticed.
Fixed.
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I'm going to post some snippets of my parent's correspondance (yes they gave me all the letters Jayne. Don't tempt me or i'll post em all.) with Benchmark Young Adult School in an effort to help explain to those who "just don't get it" what exactly happens behind the scenes:
some background information: I was at Benchmark to finish High school. That was my "issue". Ann Weiss, Ed-con from the department of State and personal friend of Jayne S. Longnecker referred the place as a "theraputic boarding school". The school age ranged from 17 - 24 at the time. There is another thread i stated here (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19452) with more specific information. I post this here because it pertains to parent manipulation.
When Michael's blowup came, we directed him to
move off property, go to school, with the intent in mind to complete high
school asap.
That was a lie. When they sent me into motel they sent me 20 miles outside redlands into a motel in Calamesa (desert in every direction). They did this becuase i was attempting to orchestrate a student protest and had found a contract law book which i was using to inform students that they could not have signed away their rights. I had to threaten them with legal action to get them to allow me to be able to go to school after they sent me to motel. I told Jayne i had contacted an education lawyer willing to work on this pro-bono(bluffed). She bought it since i had been busy studying California education law in motel and was saavy enough to explain to her exactly what she had done illegally.
He has not been attending daily
She told my parents had not been attending Redlands Adult School daily. First off. I was bussed there from the motel, and never missed a single day of school except for a few occasions when they forgot to pick me up. School attendance records can show this. why would she lie about something like this?:
(He can finish anytime
Not true. I was only allowed to work at Redlands Adult School when Flo (the education lady) was there which was approx 2 hrs / day.
but must finish before graduation on June 6 if he wants to walk.) He is apparently trying to do this. My question is, if Michael does finish HS by graduation, will he still have funding to continue his program at Benchmark at least until September? ... He will improve if we have the time to turn him around. I am not sure
how much improvement we can get done in a year, but we will do our best. I believe he could use at least 18 months, but you'll have to let me know what you are willing to do in order to accomplish this.
At this point my parents had already stated this was not a possablity. The US Dept of State was not willing to pay for more than a year of "high school" (i was a junior, why would they). She continues:
Can Michael do all of this before
September? It's possible. Will he need more time? He could use the time, and you'll need to tell us what is in your thinking
more time more money. Maybe the previous letter from my dad (in which er letter was a response to) had something to do with it:
It was my understanding from both Carl and Flo that Michael was going to graduate in June. Flo told us she was ordering him his cap and gown. Now I understand things can change, but his graduation date is crucial for us as to whether the U.S. State Department will pay for Benchmark. With only a month to go until graduation, is he on track for graduation, or not?
Now that i think about it. It's about that time the "school bus" started being a little less punctual.
This was the relavant part of the letter my father was responding to:
As to school, Michael could be finished very quickly if he so chose. He seems to realize that he needs more time, but I'm not sure he thinks its for the same needs as the rest of us. Academically, he is pretty sound. but emotionally, he is still very dependent. He could use more time than September
She does not seem to get NO MORE TIME. conidering my parents made the situation clear when i enrolled.
this regarding the three cup o noodle soup / day diet:
we could put him on the same old boring menu... anything that will underscore his need to comply.
Here is my father's subsequent response to her requests for more time:
-- If he graduates in June, the State Dept. will pay, and has already paid, for Benchmark until September 30.
...
-- Assuming that he graduates in June or sometime between June and
September, the State Dept. will not, I repeat not pay after September 30.
...
-- We are not in a financial situation that we would be able to pay after
September 30.
...
the U.S. is crucial to whether the State Dept. will fund Benchmark passed September (assuming that Michael does not finish high school by September and State is willing to pay) that would be crucial as well since if we are in the States, the U.S. State Dept. will not pay for Benchmark... we must be overseas for State to pay.
...
I have some concerns about any discussion about going beyond September because I don't see how that would be funded? My last conversation with Carl seemed to indicate that Michael was told that he has until September 30 to Sink or Swim. At least, that was my understanding and that is why we are considering being reassigned to the States. If he were to fail at being independent and he reached out to us, we wanted to be more available
I was very lucky my parents were so kind. If it were not for their compassion they would never have discovered the truth about what was really going on.
You guessed it folks. In her response she urges my parents to go overseas:
Whatever you do, should not
include Michael's returning to home, wherever that may be, to live. He
needs to tell us what he is willing, and able to do to take care of himself.
However, the emotional issues that still plague him are still there, and he
needs help to deal with them in order to be at his best, and hopefully by
now, he is willing.
Interesting isn't it. Translation: "NO NO NO.. don't come back... just stay thousands of miles away... and we'll take care of him."
oh. but don't worry we'll offer him a scholarship but DON'T TELL HIM ABOUT IT!!!:
"I may or may not wish to have Benchmark continue with Michael beyond September, but I have scholarshipped some kids who I believe in and who will absolutely take advantage of this in a healthy way. This is a fact that I do not wish anyone to discuss with Michael. I share it only because he could make significant gains by then and would benefit by staying awhile longer.
Not quite. She shared it because she wanted to further convince my parents to go overseas, and that i would be fine without them. Why not tell me? Because "scholarships" aren't quite what they sound like. She gives "scholarships" to kids when she needs a remodeling job done. It's free labor, just give them a $60 / week motel and a cup o noodles diet. It's cheaper than mexican. When the job is done they get dropped on the streets. She'll tell your parents whatever she feels like: EG: "He ruined his last chance ..." This happend to a friend of mine, he was raped while on the streets. His parents would not take him back. He was sent to Benchmark for ADHD.
When you did that Jayne. You made youself a lifelong enemy.
Now. to get back to more general things. What happens when a parent asks about the specifics of "therapy?"
I am not
eager for parents to get involved in the questions surrounding therapy
anymore than I am eager to explain the in's and out's of our emotional
growth program, and frankly, Dr. Nelson is so busy, that I can't guaranteethat he will have the time to answer all the questions you may have. We don't generally involve parents in this way, with the professionals that we have dealt with for years, and whose work we have seen and trust.
Well i wonder why. But parents. Trust them. They know what they're doing. They have GED degrees.
Oh. And Nelson is their only psychologist they refer to, and is not employed by the school. Yes. they're had a long healthy relationship over the years. Hypothesis (not allegation, since it would be very hard to prove): Nelson says all the kids are fucked up, nelson gets more business, Jayne is happy, parents think kids crazy, Nelson is happy, he keeps getting more "clients".
The contract signed on intake states a kid will only see doctors / shrinks the school approves and recommends. Hmm...
At some point i am going to post all these letters online. Soon. Jayne, Soon. ::jawdrop::
PS to Fornits Webmaster: the cookies ARE broke. Maybe i clear my cache and try it again. you did switch hosting companies so maybe it has a cookie stored but will not be used because of differing IP addresss.
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Also, if you're going to quote ST, it's best to quote in full without a link; since they have no integrity they may edit anything and everything at any time. "We are currently at war with Eurasia", anyone?
There's actually a trick to this milk. It's based on the principle of a "diff" / "patch". I regularly archive certain sites and run a
"diff siteOld.htm siteNew.htm" (this shows only what has changed)
Do this after scaring them a little in a general manner. When they run to cover things up. BAM. They've just shown you exactly where to look.
Yes i have been using this for a while on you Jayne. Why do you think i would warn you?
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I went and read the Benchmark website.
This Don Harper...the wife of Jayne S. Longnecker......
His title is "Director of Work Education"
It says he has extensive experience working in a variety of areas.
He exhibits a wide range of skills and abilities and knowledge.
He is a jack-of-all-trades.
He teaches how to work, how to start and finish a job.
That he helped to shape the work program into what it is.
WTF does this mean. What does this DO-DO actually do?
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Benchmark's Educational Staff:
Flo Reynolds: Director of Academics
She brings a history of experience that includes retail management.
She assists students in finding classes in work programs.
Mona Tripple:
Has a 2 year AA degree in Art
Her previous jobs include installing carpet, and a Vet assistant.
She opened the Art Dept with stain glass and ceramic classes.
Tony Armanderes: Crew Chief
He has various duties which began with security for night watch.
He helps students comply with work assignments.
He supervises work on "our apartments."
He too, is a Jack-of-all-trades"
Steve Kruse"
He only has 2 years of college, yet claims he MAJORED in Psychology.
He teaches the concept of work. by helping them build "the required projects or what ever is needed.
He has "many hands-on-talents"
I HAVE TO ASK:
Isn't this a school? What happened to English, Math, Science, History......that sort of thing.
This place sounds like a fucking working-these-kids-to-death zoo!
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I went and read the Benchmark website.
This Don Harper...the wife of Jayne S. Longnecker......
His title is "Director of Work Education"
It says he has extensive experience working in a variety of areas.
He exhibits a wide range of skills and abilities and knowledge.
He is a jack-of-all-trades.
He teaches how to work, how to start and finish a job.
That he helped to shape the work program into what it is.
WTF does this mean. What does this DO-DO actually do?
Not much at all. In your search did you find any official qualifications.
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Benchmark's Educational Staff:
Flo Reynolds: Director of Academics
She brings a history of experience that includes retail management.
She assists students in finding classes in work programs.
She escorts the kids to Redlands Adult School and makes sure they don't use the computers (cant have them discovering fornits now can we). She helps teach occasionally but has no qualifications to do so.
Mona Tripple:
Has a 2 year AA degree in Art
Her previous jobs include installing carpet, and a Vet assistant.
She opened the Art Dept with stain glass and ceramic classes.
She's flo's girlfriend. She teaches kids the invaluble sciences of gluing little pieces of glass together. She also does the drug testing.
Tony Armanderes: Crew Chief
He has various duties which began with security for night watch.
He helps students comply with work assignments.
He supervises work on "our apartments."
He too, is a Jack-of-all-trades"
he teaches kids how to fix the toilets (really).
Steve Kruse"
He only has 2 years of college, yet claims he MAJORED in Psychology.
He teaches the concept of work. by helping them build "the required projects or what ever is needed.
He has "many hands-on-talents"
He teaches "Building trades." You basically learn how to build dressers, coffee tables, etc. It's so they don't have to buy furnature for the apartments. What isn't shipped to the apartments is sold off. As Deborah would say:
"Get your money for nothin, and your slave labor for free"
I HAVE TO ASK:
Isn't this a school? What happened to English, Math, Science, History......that sort of thing.
This place sounds like a fucking working-these-kids-to-death zoo!
Well it's more of a BM them until they dissociate into like 5 people type of place. The behavior modification is CEDU style (propheets, raps, etc). Jayne used to be the director of Hilltop (CEDU's college) in Running Springs (about 10 miles from Redlands).
Well they claim to be a school according to the affidavit they filed with the state of california. They also claim to have 10 full time teachers. I don't know how they figured that one out. Flo is the only one who actually does some limited teaching at Redlands Adult school, and 2 hours a day could hardly be described as full time. They also claim to offer HS diplomas (not true). They did not claim to offer LD assistance though they mention it on their website, as well as an alphabet soup of disorders in their "meta" html tag (which they later deleted, which pointed me to california regulations on practice of psychology, which are actually quite strict). There is a thread on this here (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=19452) with much more information on a lot of this if you want to comment. I don't want to hijack this thread.
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Edit: whoops. double post
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psy ... how can kids be so stupid?
Because they were raised by parents like you,
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i don't personally think it can ever be considered a mistake to send your child somewhere that will keep them alive and hopefully bring them out as a better person
I have to be honest when I say I'd have preffered to have been sent to a hospital or any program even if they mistreated me than been allowed to carry on the way I did as a youngster, the very fact no-one cared enough to stop me has caused more mental harm than any program could ever have done......young ppl just don't see it until they are mature enough to understand that it was done out of love and fear for them
THEY ARE INSANE!
liars,dramatizers,exagerators
all of them! a pathetic group of assbags if ive seen one.
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AND THAT WAS POSTED BY MOSE - THE "MODERATOR" !
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Sometimes when reading something, I'll skim through and come back later.
I have got to learn to stop doing that with ST!
(http://http://www.mpt.org/artworks/thisweek/images/10.31.02/barf.jpg)
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AND THAT WAS POSTED BY MOSE - THE "MODERATOR" !
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Mose is a fucking dirtbag loser and WillieNelson is KarenInDallas. These people are right at the top of the hierarchy of morons.
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Well i finally got around to reading that tripe. What a bunch of self centred little shits, whining about how THEY are hurt by their bitter children.
Frankly, I hate to imagine what DS will choose for us as we age!
Took the words right out of my mouth. If I didn't think my parents were truly sorry for sending me where they did, they'd be going to a nursing home a la Abu Ghraibe. Hmm. Really unpleasant nursing homes could make a killing advertising on fornits.
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Saw a sign in a gift shop once that read:
"Be Kind to Your Children. Remember, They Choose Your Nursing Home."
Parents should take notice.
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young ppl just don't see it until they are mature enough to understand that it was done out of love and fear for them
Don't you mean "young people will be amazed until they mature enough to understand just how far their own parents will go to justify making the wrong decision out of fear and saying it was out of love to guilt trip the victim"?
:flame:
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We told our daughter that it was better to have a pissed-off kid than a dead one. Our girl was one of those hard-core cases whose body would have been found in a cornfield one day if we didn't have her secured somewhere.
:rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:P
I'm Darian. I'm the mom who apparently posted something on ST that really tickled your funny bone. Care to explain? Then I'll give you our story.
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Darian,
What is funny is that this "insane/dead/in jail" tripe is used with everybody. There are a lot of people who feel this is a marketing tactic, as well as a way for parents to feel comfortable about the decision to send their kids away to an unlicensed facility in an unregulated industry.
You can't predict the future and you cannot know what would have happened if you didn't send your kid to program. Parents often have the uncanny ability to predict the worst to make themselves feel comfortable with an otherwise dodgy decision. (ie. "well it's better than the alternative").
Most of the time people just grow out of things, and unless you daughter was an immediate danger to herself or others should not have been institutionalized based on hypothetical "future crime". If she was a danger to herself or others she should have been sent to a state licensed mental facility where the doctors there could have diagnosed and treated her properly.
Sure i'd love to hear the story. And i hope she is doing fine now.
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psy,
I know that the "dead r' in jail" mantra is often quoted by those who advocate the use of programs and also by those who ridicule the decisions made by some grieving parents.
In our daughter's case, she was a danger to herself. I don't want to turn my post into a novel, so I will distill it down to the essentials.
Our child (one of 3) started exhibiting signs of mental illness around preschool age. We found a child psychiatrist and therapists at a local university medical center. She remained in therapy for about 4 years. A complete neuro-psych evaluation determined depression and parasomnia (sleep disorder). My husband and I were peaceful
attentive, and loving parents. Loving and involved extended family. No history of familial mental illness. No evidence of abuse or molestation of our daughter.
Fast-forward to age 12. On an overseas trip with grandparents and cousins, she is molested by an older teenage boy. The hell begins. Despite the entire family rallying around her with love and support, and despite finding the best local therapist who specializes in sexual abuse and trauma recovery, our daughter spins out of control.
She starts fondling and giving blow jobs to boys in 7th grade. She leaves the house in the middle of the night and hitchhikes with strangers. (Yes, we installed a security system). Gets beaten up, raped and prostituted out when she walks off with strangers at age 14. From 12 to 14 she is in outpatient therapy and is admitted to a
local adolescent mental health care facility off and on, sometimes for one week, sometimes for 3 weeks at a time.
One summer she disappeared for 9 days. We live in the rural Midwest where the corn grows very high by August. Almost every year when the corn is harvested a partially decomposed body is found. We were absolutely certain that our daughter's body would be found under those circumstances given her tendancy to walk off
with men who were strangers to her. When we found her, she had lost 10 pounds, was covered in bruises, and spent 5 days in the hospital with an IV. Didn't seem to faze her. As soon as she got home she started contacting the men who had abused her. She admitted to her therapist at a TBS that the plan was for her to rejoin
one of them, drive to Tennessee, and prostitute to feed his heroin addiction.
I've said enough. I think you get the picture. We tried to keep her safe, but our state's ONLY long-term inpatient mental health facility had a waiting list of 8 months. Yeah, we took drastic action or we were going to lose her forever.
Right now she is 19 years old, a sophomore in college, and on the Dean's list. It was in her RTC where she was finally diagnosed with bi-polar ll. Wonder of wonders, she was prescribed lithium with an anti-depressant and started to feel like a human being again.
Our daughter still struggles with several issues surrounding her mental illness and sexual abuse. She probably always will. But she is alive and moving forward.
Our daughter, my husband and myself have had many long conversations about the merits and drawbacks of residential placement. We have all come to the conclusion that, for her, placement kept her physically safe while she continued her education and her brain matured. No more, no less. She didn't receive any magical, life-changing advice from any of the staff, and she didn't buy into the "program." She was just kept safe from herself.
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8/10
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:question:
what is 8/10?
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:question:
what is 8/10?
A little low, you got a 9/10
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psy,
I know that the "dead r' in jail" mantra is often quoted by those who advocate the use of programs and also by those who ridicule the decisions made by some grieving parents.
In our daughter's case, she was a danger to herself. I don't want to turn my post into a novel, so I will distill it down to the essentials.
Our child (one of 3) started exhibiting signs of mental illness around preschool age. We found a child psychiatrist and therapists at a local university medical center. She remained in therapy for about 4 years. A complete neuro-psych evaluation determined depression and parasomnia (sleep disorder). My husband and I were peaceful
attentive, and loving parents. Loving and involved extended family. No history of familial mental illness. No evidence of abuse or molestation of our daughter.
Fast-forward to age 12. On an overseas trip with grandparents and cousins, she is molested by an older teenage boy. The hell begins. Despite the entire family rallying around her with love and support, and despite finding the best local therapist who specializes in sexual abuse and trauma recovery, our daughter spins out of control.
She starts fondling and giving blow jobs to boys in 7th grade. She leaves the house in the middle of the night and hitchhikes with strangers. (Yes, we installed a security system). Gets beaten up, raped and prostituted out when she walks off with strangers at age 14. From 12 to 14 she is in outpatient therapy and is admitted to a
local adolescent mental health care facility off and on, sometimes for one week, sometimes for 3 weeks at a time.
One summer she disappeared for 9 days. We live in the rural Midwest where the corn grows very high by August. Almost every year when the corn is harvested a partially decomposed body is found. We were absolutely certain that our daughter's body would be found under those circumstances given her tendancy to walk off
with men who were strangers to her. When we found her, she had lost 10 pounds, was covered in bruises, and spent 5 days in the hospital with an IV. Didn't seem to faze her. As soon as she got home she started contacting the men who had abused her. She admitted to her therapist at a TBS that the plan was for her to rejoin
one of them, drive to Tennessee, and prostitute to feed his heroin addiction.
I've said enough. I think you get the picture. We tried to keep her safe, but our state's ONLY long-term inpatient mental health facility had a waiting list of 8 months. Yeah, we took drastic action or we were going to lose her forever.
Right now she is 19 years old, a sophomore in college, and on the Dean's list. It was in her RTC where she was finally diagnosed with bi-polar ll. Wonder of wonders, she was prescribed lithium with an anti-depressant and started to feel like a human being again.
Our daughter still struggles with several issues surrounding her mental illness and sexual abuse. She probably always will. But she is alive and moving forward.
Our daughter, my husband and myself have had many long conversations about the merits and drawbacks of residential placement. We have all come to the conclusion that, for her, placement kept her physically safe while she continued her education and her brain matured. No more, no less. She didn't receive any magical, life-changing advice from any of the staff, and she didn't buy into the "program." She was just kept safe from herself.
by "8/10", Milk is rating you as a troll. (ie. i give the post an 8/10 on the convincing meter) I'm not so sure you are a troll so i'll answer you.
I'll only respond by saying I don't think you made the right decision by program, and I don't think lithium was the answer either. Lithium is a very strong emotional suppressant. Although it covers the symptons, it really doesn't deal with the crux of the issue, which in my opinion, would be her sexual abuse. People on Lithium generally are very numb and it wouldn't be nice to her to have to live out such an existence long term when a skilled psychologist could uncover and deal with her issues.
I can guarantee she never felt safe enough to reveal the details of this in program unless it was coerced out of her under conditions of sleep deprivation, starvation, guided imagery, or trance induction (which does happen). In CEDU schools it's called "propheets" or "Workshops". We'll just say, from personal experience, it is not exactly good for the mind to have things brought to the surface without your consent. If this was done to her, I would estimate it being considerably more difficult for her to feel comfortable enough to talk to a therapist about her issues again. This happened with many people I knew and it was the worst with the ones who were sexually abused. It's like being victimized all over again.
I'm not so sure you should believe any of her "confessions" in program. It was not uncommon where I was for one to be forced to buy into exaggerations and outright lies in order to be perceived as "going along with the program". Often, after enough time, enough pressure, and enough brainwashing (i can explain in further detail if you wish), one actually came to believe their trumped up confessions. There are a thousand reasons why i could think of such a story with heroin and Tennessee not to be true and it really sounds like something that was made up for your benefit. Have you talked to your daughter in detail about her program experience? Where was she?
You may ask. What alternative? Well, I've seen other posters suggest a wealth of options before. A psych ward at a hospital could have been an option as would be any mental institution available, in state, or out of state. You could have contacted a rape hot line or support group for abused women. I'm sure they could have helped. Having friends who understood her experiences might have helped her to realize why she was behaving the way she was. These are just a few suggestions, though at this point I suggest you research the program where she was placed, and find out if her confessions were truthful (unlikely) or trumped up / coerced.
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8 month waiting list for actual psych treatment?
LOL.
No such thing! I love "only in the state" too. :rofl:
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I am sorry. Your story sounds awful. What strikes me is that this girl sounds deeply ill.
It is concerning that RTCs and TBS schools are selling themselves as providing a service which fills gaps that should be provided by mental health services. I would argue that your daughters Treatment Centre would have been more ethical in their approach if they had immediately helped you to look at any other options in which your daughter could have been helped by professionals who work only with children who are mentally ill. But this is the problem with an industry which is unregulated and for profit. it will be all things to all people, even if it means being a "better than nothing" option for those who feel they dont know where else to turn
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psy,
I'm not real familiar with internet terms, so I don't know what a "troll" is either.
There are actually 2 main issues challenging our daughter. The first is the underlying mood disorder and parasomnia. Layered over that is the sexual abuse. It is very difficult to counsel a patient about traumatic events in their lives if they have an untreated psychiatric issue to boot. In our daughter's case, both issues were addressed, and continue to be addressed. I agree that medicating a victim of abuse and ignoring the abuse itself would be negligent.
She has never reported feeling "numb" on Lithium, only more clear-headed, focused and content. Perhaps this is because her dosage is low.
Our daughter received outpatient psychiatric and psychological counseling for years before residential treatment and for years before her molestation. Several different anti-depressants were tried without success. According to our daughter, Lithium was the only med that worked. She is living away at college now, and takes it on her own regularly. No one puts a gun to her head and forces her. She came to this conclusion on her own after trial and error.
As to her program, we did our own research. We found this site, and the ST site, and isaccorp and heal-online. We networked with local and regional psychiatrists and visited 4 different facilities. No, the facility we chose was not a WWASPS or CEDU or "faith-based" facility. It is a very small clinically-based facility in Wisconsin that specifically treats girls who are victims of sexual abuse. There are 2 separate homes with 7 girls in each. And no psy...no witchcraft was used to get her to talk. She had been talking openly about the abuse incidents with us and her therapists before she went into residential.
As far as "confessions" in the program...there were really no surprises. Her molestation at age 12 was corroborated by one of her cousins who was with her on the trip. Our daughter had been talking to us about it anyway. Her rape case 2 years later hit the local newspapers. The man she was going to run with was found dead in his home 2 weeks after she left for residential - heroin overdose. No surprise there. Two of the men who raped her are currently serving time. One got a suspended sentence. Two more have disappeared. The nasty details of our daughter's time with these animals came out in court. We didn't hear about the Tennessee plan until she was in residential because, as I indicated above, the jerk died before he went to trial.
Other options...we tried all the ones you listed. She was short-term inpatient at our local facility on 5 different occasions, and a resident at another in a nearby city for 2 weeks. The long-term inpatient psych facility in our state had a very long waitng list (and a scary reputation). Out of state psych ward? We think our daughter got better and more specialized care in Wisconsin. Rape counseling, check. Support group, check. The advice of her friends went in one ear and out the other.
Bottom line, I agree that residential treatment should be the absolute last choice, and should only be made if the kid is a danger to himself or others. It should be considered ONLY after all LOCAL mental health care resources have been completely exhausted.
guest,
I didn't say there was an 8 month waiting list for psych treatment. I said there was an 8 month waiting list for INPATIENT LONG-TERM psych treatment. Learn to read, asshole.
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I sounds as if you did your homework and chose a true residential "treatment" facility not associated with the hellholes that are trashed on this site; facilities that advertise themselves as being "theraputic" when in fact most are abusive. These are "one size fits all" cash cows that don't offer the kind of treatment you got for your daughter. They have incompetent and uneducated staff (some barely have a GED, let alone a college degree) for the most part. They are unlicensed and unregulated and experiment on the kids heads with all kinds of new agey crap and old-fashioned 1984-like brain-washing. They take anyone whose parents have the big bucks to send them there. I have read on this site how some of these programs actually force kids to confess being sexually abused in front of everyone, male and female, then have it used against them.
No way would your daughter have gotten "treatment" or a diagnosis at one of these places.
A "troll" is someone who comes on the site to start shit by putting out phony stories to get everyone stirred up. Usually they are people who continue to benefit financially from these "therapukic" places and want to keep milking the cow. They like to "bait" and try to distract posters from telling the truth. They also call people "assholes" when the person posts something don't like.
Just curious but have you ever thought that your daughter might have been seriously molested at a very young age by a familly member or a babysitter? I only say this because her problems started so young. I have not read any case of a bi-polar diagnosis where the person did not have huge trauma in their background and it usually happened at a young age. check it out
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A troll. I get it. When I see the word "troll" I think of the trolls who lived under the bridge in "The Three Billy Goats Gruff." No, I'm not a troll. I'm just a mom who has lived and breathed this issue for a number of years now.
This possibility of early molestation was suggested to us by her primary therapist at the facility. I have always been a stay at home mom and never used babysitters. The only people who babysat our children were my parents, who raised me. Let me just say that, in a perfect world, my mom and dad are the parents that every child would have. Absolutely no possiblilty of harm there. We really can't think of a time when our daughter would have been alone with someone we don't know very well. We, and her therapist, did discuss this possibility with our daughter. She says she has no recollection of an early molestation. Part of the reason it took so many years to properly diagnose our daughter was because bi-polar almost always has a very strong family history. Since there is no history of bi-polar in either side of the family, that diagnosis was put on the shelf and dismissed.
There is still so much mystery surrounding these biologically-based mental illnessess. We have beaten ourselves up so many times trying to figure out what happened, or if there is a recessive gene in the family, or if something did happen to her in early childhood. We have to accept the fact that we may never know.
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This may seem like an odd question, but not having dealt with drugs/alcohol before (son went to RTC for other issues), I'm wondering what my boy might have been on last night. His friend drove him home, he was weaving as he came across the deck, stumbled in the door, slurred his words and went straight to bed. According to his "friend", they'd gone out to eat, went to another boy's house where our son repeatedly threw up, then (several hours later)he brought him home. Sounds like a first time drinker chugging too much at once, to me. I'm just wondering if there are other possibilities? Some drug or substance I'm not aware of?
Sounds like he was slaughtered to me, maybe he smoked a little pot as well, the two together are guaranteed to make anyone sick - but you more than likely would have smelt pot on him, it sticks to everything and has a very sweet sickly smell to it.......if it's any conilation, my son did this to me last night as well, puked all over the back seat of my car, he's going to have fun clearing it up tomorrow, hence my new rule of him not being allowed in the house with even a touch of alcohol on his lips
How old is your lad?
If these people can't even get their facts straight about drugs and drug use how can they be expected to get their facts straight about where they ship their kids off to and whether or not it's really necessary in the first place? :roll:
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I'm just laughing at how he wasn't involved in drugs before he got sent away.
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I'm just laughing at how he wasn't involved in drugs before he got sent away.
2/10
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I'm just laughing at how he wasn't involved in drugs before he got sent away.
2/10
2/10? Ur nuts! This is a 12/10 simply for the drug/alcohol habit being CREATED at a TBS. This happens all the time and is seriously under-reported. "Good kids gone bad due to 'help'"...
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(some barely have a GED, let alone a college degree) for the most part. They are unlicensed and unregulated and experiment on the kids heads with all kinds of new agey crap and old-fashioned 1984-like brain-washing. They take anyone whose parents have the big bucks to send them there. I have read on this site how some of these programs actually force kids to confess being sexually abused in front of everyone, male and female, then have it used against them.
Check, check, check, check. Sounds like where I was.
Habibi,
the above quoted guest pretty well summarized what goes on at some programs. It's good you researched the place you sent your daughter (it's better than my parents ever did, who just took the ed-con's word for it). You must admit, however, that it was still a risk, and that as long as the industry remains completely unregulated there still a danger (which in my mind, especially becuase of my experiences, remains unacceptable).
I never questioned the authenticity of her story of abuse (such a thing should never be done), although it was a frequent occurance by the staff where i was. I was referring, rather, to the "tennessee plan" which sounded a bit exaggerated at the very least. As i said, now that she is out of treatment, i might think it wise to ask her about the authenticity the stories.
It sounds like the guys she was going out with were complete shits and for your daughter's sake, i'm glad their dead.
As far as the Lithium goes, it is, in the end, your daughter's choice, though i hope she is getting therapy as well.
You mention that there were "therapists" at the facility you sent your daughter to. That is a good sign. Where i was, there were no body on staff with anything above a BA, and no counselors with anything above a HS diploma.
I do aggree, with the guest, however that there is a high likelyhood of early life sexual molestation. Such would explain a lot about her behaviour. There was a girl in my program who was very promiscuous. Eventually she had a flashback of being raped by her father as a child. It was a memory she had repressed. She disclosed this to her counselor and it was later made a topic of group discussion. I would hope the staff at your daughter's facility were more qualified and/or sensitive.
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This may seem like an odd question, but not having dealt with drugs/alcohol before (son went to RTC for other issues), I'm wondering what my boy might have been on last night. His friend drove him home, he was weaving as he came across the deck, stumbled in the door, slurred his words and went straight to bed. According to his "friend", they'd gone out to eat, went to another boy's house where our son repeatedly threw up, then (several hours later)he brought him home. Sounds like a first time drinker chugging too much at once, to me. I'm just wondering if there are other possibilities? Some drug or substance I'm not aware of?
Now THAT is funny. No. He was drunk.
[/quote]Sounds like he was slaughtered to me, maybe he smoked a little pot as well, the two together are guaranteed to make anyone sick[/quote]
:rofl: Okey dokey. Pot is given to leukemia patients to keep them from throwing up from the chemo. If your kid blew chunks, he probably wasn't smoking. His friends might have been. Pot, in no quantity, will make somebody throw up. It will keep them from throwing up. This is actually dangerous in some cases (throwing up is the body's way of doing a stomach pump, avoiding alcohol poisoning), and the real reason why the two should not be mixed (at least not in mass quantities).
Look. So your kid got drunk and threw up. Woop-e-di-doo. I did it once when i was growing up and never drank that much again. No really. I never wanted that headache again. Screwing up is part of growing up. It's a learning process. How else are you supposed to know when to stop than to get sick at least once.
Well. Back to my wonderful vacation in sunny Romania.
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I'm just laughing at how he wasn't involved in drugs before he got sent away.
2/10
2/10? Ur nuts! This is a 12/10 simply for the drug/alcohol habit being CREATED at a TBS. This happens all the time and is seriously under-reported. "Good kids gone bad due to 'help'"...
Laughing at other people's misfortunes deserves a 0/10. All some people care about is if THEY are right and win an online argument (in their own head) and could care less about the kids discussed here.
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I ought to differentiate here.
The idea of some dipshit paying a manager's salary for a year to have the kid come out with even more problems than he went in with is black humor, and deserves derisive laughter.
The actual kid isn't who I intended to laugh at at all.
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Hi all
I must admit that I did not read everything on this thread before responding to you here. When I have more time, I will. Just wanted to say I sent my son to a Wilderness (for 6 weeks), then on to a TBS, and he graduated from high school (i was there for his graduation), and (he had dropped out of high school here, so he would not have graduated from high school), with almost all A's. He is not mad at me to this day. He told me that he knows why I did what I did, and that he was spinning out of control.
However I do want to say, that I think that the only thing he got out of all of this was that he was spinning out of control, he learned lots of things in the wilderness, and he is totally off drugs and he graduated from high school with high grades, however, he is back to gambling which should have been addressed more in counseling at the TBS and wasn't. All I can say is that he does admit that he is adicted to gambling, and the last month he went on a spending trip to CA with a "gambling friend", and spent thousands of $, and lost it all. He also neglected himself, and is a diabetic and wasn't taking his insulin and he finally called a relative who came and picked him up at the casino, and my son (18) was in really bad shape, dirty, and was taken to the ER, and his sugar level should not be over 180, and it was 668. If he had not been taken to the ER that day, they say his sugar level would have gotten higher since he was not taking his insulin and he would have soon, passed out and gone into a coma, and prob. died. So he realized what he had done to himself, but I know and he knows he is hooked on gambling. He is going to do counseling, but will this really help?
Just thought I would tell you our story.
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4/10
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4/10 what does this mean?? I am not a troll and I
am being totally honest with you.
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Hi all
I must admit that I did not read everything on this thread before responding to you here. When I have more time, I will. Just wanted to say I sent my son to a Wilderness (for 6 weeks), then on to a TBS, and he graduated from high school (i was there for his graduation), and (he had dropped out of high school here, so he would not have graduated from high school), with almost all A's. He is not mad at me to this day. He told me that he knows why I did what I did, and that he was spinning out of control.
However I do want to say, that I think that the only thing he got out of all of this was that he was spinning out of control, he learned lots of things in the wilderness, and he is totally off drugs and he graduated from high school with high grades, however, he is back to gambling which should have been addressed more in counseling at the TBS and wasn't. All I can say is that he does admit that he is adicted to gambling, and the last month he went on a spending trip to CA with a "gambling friend", and spent thousands of $, and lost it all. He also neglected himself, and is a diabetic and wasn't taking his insulin and he finally called a relative who came and picked him up at the casino, and my son (18) was in really bad shape, dirty, and was taken to the ER, and his sugar level should not be over 180, and it was 668. If he had not been taken to the ER that day, they say his sugar level would have gotten higher since he was not taking his insulin and he would have soon, passed out and gone into a coma, and prob. died. So he realized what he had done to himself, but I know and he knows he is hooked on gambling. He is going to do counseling, but will this really help?
Just thought I would tell you our story.
Addiction is addiction, and the object of the addiction can be just about anything -- drugs, alcohol, gambling, the internet, video games, work -- you name it. Find a way to suggest to him that he find a therapist that specializes in addiction and get himself some help. If he doesn't control it, it will control him.
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Thanks I agree totally! His gambling addiction is already controlling him.
There is a therapist/counselor for him to see starting in early December, hopefully this will help, but I have no idea. He is living with Grandparents in another state than I live in.
I hope this person can help him, however if he doesn't want to be helped then it won't, it is up to my son.
Thanks!! :D
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Oh, so this is Leslie back again. Won't your ST friends help you?
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No, she's a pariah there. She didn't follow their orders, so now they just ridicule her for being weak. They're nice people. :roll:
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Hi all
I must admit that I did not read everything on this thread before responding to you here. When I have more time, I will. Just wanted to say I sent my son to a Wilderness (for 6 weeks), then on to a TBS, and he graduated from high school (i was there for his graduation), and (he had dropped out of high school here, so he would not have graduated from high school), with almost all A's. He is not mad at me to this day. He told me that he knows why I did what I did, and that he was spinning out of control.
However I do want to say, that I think that the only thing he got out of all of this was that he was spinning out of control, he learned lots of things in the wilderness, and he is totally off drugs and he graduated from high school with high grades, however, he is back to gambling which should have been addressed more in counseling at the TBS and wasn't. All I can say is that he does admit that he is adicted to gambling, and the last month he went on a spending trip to CA with a "gambling friend", and spent thousands of $, and lost it all. He also neglected himself, and is a diabetic and wasn't taking his insulin and he finally called a relative who came and picked him up at the casino, and my son (18) was in really bad shape, dirty, and was taken to the ER, and his sugar level should not be over 180, and it was 668. If he had not been taken to the ER that day, they say his sugar level would have gotten higher since he was not taking his insulin and he would have soon, passed out and gone into a coma, and prob. died. So he realized what he had done to himself, but I know and he knows he is hooked on gambling. He is going to do counseling, but will this really help?
Just thought I would tell you our story.
I just poked my head in after being away from Fornits for 6 months or so...but anyhow...this post looks familiar to one that I saw in the past regarding a program parent that actually took their son to a casino for his graduation present.
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This may seem like an odd question, but not having dealt with drugs/alcohol before (son went to RTC for other issues), I'm wondering what my boy might have been on last night. His friend drove him home, he was weaving as he came across the deck, stumbled in the door, slurred his words and went straight to bed. According to his "friend", they'd gone out to eat, went to another boy's house where our son repeatedly threw up, then (several hours later)he brought him home. Sounds like a first time drinker chugging too much at once, to me. I'm just wondering if there are other possibilities? Some drug or substance I'm not aware of?
Now THAT is funny. No. He was drunk.
Sounds like he was slaughtered to me, maybe he smoked a little pot as well, the two together are guaranteed to make anyone sick[/quote]
:rofl: Okey dokey. Pot is given to leukemia patients to keep them from throwing up from the chemo. If your kid blew chunks, he probably wasn't smoking. His friends might have been. Pot, in no quantity, will make somebody throw up. It will keep them from throwing up. This is actually dangerous in some cases (throwing up is the body's way of doing a stomach pump, avoiding alcohol poisoning), and the real reason why the two should not be mixed (at least not in mass quantities).
Look. So your kid got drunk and threw up. Woop-e-di-doo. I did it once when i was growing up and never drank that much again. No really. I never wanted that headache again. Screwing up is part of growing up. It's a learning process. How else are you supposed to know when to stop than to get sick at least once.
Well. Back to my wonderful vacation in sunny Romania.[/quote]Wrong wrong wrong, I smoked pot ONCE! never again because I threw up all night long
Wrong again on the drinking, my own 19 year old got so drunk at the age of 12 he had to have his stomach pumped, he now has a pretty bad drink problem, it never stops him, nor did it stop either of my brothers
Wrong again on it being an excuse to send my child away to alleviate my 'guilt as a bad parent' I haven't sent any of my children away because I can't! The fact that I ask for and want the help instead of burying my head up my arse and pretending it'll all go away if I deny it (the "oh no, not mine, they wouldn't do that" syndrome) makes me a good parent.....I want my children to grow into responsible, cionfident, mature human beings who can take responsibility for their own actions, how does that make me a crap parent?
I am the poster who said the child had probably smoked pot, I am also the poster who said she would never forgive her mother for not caring enough, I hope to God my kids will never say that about me - I fight tooth and nail to get help because I DO care!
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tip: make sure to do a preview before posting to make sure you haven't screwed up a BB tag. (my bad as well)
Wrong wrong wrong, I smoked pot ONCE! never again because I threw up all night long
I don't believe it was pot then. Might have been opium or pot laced with opium or something else. Unless: you were already very very drunk when you first had a hit (and i'm guessing you didn't smoke cigarrettes). What probably happened is you coughed until you threw up becuase your lungs couldn't handle the shock and you were already drunk.
Wrong again on the drinking, my own 19 year old got so drunk at the age of 12 he had to have his stomach pumped, he now has a pretty bad drink problem, it never stops him, nor did it stop either of my brothers
Yes. He had to get his stomach pumped. That happens. So? I said that happens. It is more likely to happen if your kid smokes pot before binge drinking because he won't throw up as easily (or at all). That's all i'm saying. Still you shouldn't take any action against him unless you know for a fact that he is smoking pot. And even then I wouldn't consider it a problem unless he was regularly smoking pot at home and it was negatively affecting his school work / social life. If he tries it one time at a party and you condemn him to a "emotional growth school" for that it would be pretty messed up in my opinion.
Wrong again on it being an excuse to send my child away to alleviate my 'guilt as a bad parent' I haven't sent any of my children away because I can't!
And what. Would you really do it if you could. Who has his head in the sand? Look around this board if you don't immediately see what i mean. I've been in program (not for drugs, but it's where i learned all about them) and it's not a nice place to be.
I never said you were a bad parent. Where do you get that?
The fact that I ask for and want the help instead of burying my head up my arse and pretending it'll all go away if I deny it (the "oh no, not mine, they wouldn't do that" syndrome) makes me a good parent.....I want my children to grow into responsible, cionfident, mature human beings who can take responsibility for their own actions, how does that make me a crap parent?
I never said anything about you being a crap parent. And if you want your kids to grow up like that DONT SEND THEM TO PROGRAM. If you did, i would label you an "idiot (as in uninformed or having done poor research) parent" not a crap parent. If you knew about the abuse your kid would inevitably go through which you might never find out about, then i would label you a crap parent.
I am the poster who said the child had probably smoked pot, I am also the poster who said she would never forgive her mother for not caring enough, I hope to God my kids will never say that about me - I fight tooth and nail to get help because I DO care!
Well my advice is to ask a psychotherapist what to do. Programs will solve nothing and i'm guessing you won't listen to whom you most likely already assume to be "program rejects" or some such.
@milk:
let me explain why i am answering the above as if he/she is an actual poster and not a troll (95% sure in this case). It looks better to the uninformed than "fuck off ST troll" and makes a conservative parent more likely to read the whole thread and not dismiss it as a bunch of junkie-scum-program-reject-failures-typing-out-of-thier-moms-basement
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Psy, this isn't a troll; I can say without much doubt that the post you responded to is, in fact, the poster on ST- it's the same ISP.
I haven't sent any of my children away because I can't!
And you never will.
There is a British poster who occasionally stops by these boards. He is many, many times as smart, politically connected, wily, etc as you are, and he has a number of friends as adamant as he is. You can beat your head against that particular wall all you like; your kids will have grown up, you will REALLY be at your wit's end, and you will not have budged the British system one inch in the direction you wish. Especially since most of the British authorities in charge of such things are horrified at what's being done to kids in America. You know, by the people you post with on ST.
As for an actual solution, let's start here: From your other posts, it looks to me like they're systematically avoiding your home. Why? Step back for a moment. Take a deep breath. Ask "What happens in my home to make my kids avoid it?" How well do you really know your kids? What do they really think of you? Why? What is going on between you and them? It's very rare that a family with three children is going to have all three of them come out violent. And where's their father in all this, anyway?
Without details, the only thing I (or anyone) can say for sure is that whatever you're doing, it's not working. Don't do more of it. If you're going to keep trying to discipline, ground, etc them, they're just going to continue to avoid you, and it's not going to end well. Have the people on ST gave you any answers worth a shit? Odds are, no. They don't have any.
I'm not a professional, so I'll just conclude with this: Stop, sit back, and think. Everything else comes afterwards.
If you can't come up with answers that work on your own, go into a professional psychiatrist's office, even if your kids don't come with you. Sit back, pay the money, swallow your pride, and ask questions of a real professional. His opinion is probably going to matter a lot more than anyone you might meet on the Internet.
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Well, Aardvark said that this sort of thing doesn't exist there.
If you know of such places, I'll gladly crowlunch, but I'd love to know their names.
But by PM or at some other time, if you don't mind. We have an ST poster here and the last thing we want is to give her ideas...
*gets a sudden, disturbing vision of the ST poster going around asking "Yes, I've heard online that there are abusive places to send my kids in Britain, but I'm not sure where they are. Can you please point me in their direction?"*
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Psy, this isn't a troll; I can say without much doubt that the post you responded to is, in fact, the poster on ST- it's the same ISP.
Can it not be both? But my mistake. 95% leaves a 5% margin of error.
Also. To correct Three Springs: I lived in the UK for a year (boarding school). They have a thing called "child line" there. The number is plastered everywhere. Their social services are really really finicky and I truly doubt anything close to WWASP or CEDU could possably operate with the amount of state oversight and opportunity for kids to report abuse.
If you can find one example. Please go ahead. Apart from the American "fat farm" import, can you find one example of an abusive program on british soil. Consider it a challenge to shut up a liberal commie hippie etc... I would actually like to be proven wrong. I'm an American after all and all this shit is very embarrassing.
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Have you read "exhausted"'s posts? She sure seems to be at a loss about what to do with her kids over there in the UK. I often get the sense that she's really hoping some program will offer to take all three of her kids on scholarship or recruit them for the next Brat Camp UK series.
Aspen has a fat farm there. While "parent choice" incarceration may not be propular with the Brits, they might consider weight loss camp okay. Little would they know it's not any different than any other program, just a different problem to "fix".
While Brits may not be ready for the industry, Aspen etal are slowly working on changing the public attitude toward private pay incarceration.
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All is "well" in merry old England.
This of course is not the case. I have a mate who survived both the foster care system and a youth authority placement. His stories tend to run quite the contrary to the established myths being put out in some quarters.
While the UK might not be home to private torture facilities they certainly have plenty of abusive incidents in their own public institutions. Like all other countries they make a song and dance about getting right on top of the problem. Outrage is expressed by members of parliament and so on and so forth.
Yes this is true. But it is far less prevalent than it is here.
I think people routinely tend to forget the obvious.
Kids get shat on in every country in the world. It doesn't matter what country you can name, kids are, have, and will be abused.
This private torture program issue isn't at all unique to the USA. Where did boarding schools orginate? Europe.. Where did boarding school hazing being? Europe.. Where did it become popular to subcontract out the raising of your children so that you can carry on with your daily sodomization of polo ponies and eating scones? Europe..
For a moment i thought you were going to blame Clinton. :lol:
Also. Boarding school hazing in the UK cannot be compared to what program does to kids (i've experienced both, personally.) Although it was frownd upon, there were ways of reporting abuse but not many people bothered to becuase it never really got that bad, at least where I was: Ampleforth, just north of Leeds. There were also councelors who you could go to (and i mean licenced school shrinks) and talk about things if you were really down. There was always a means of reporting abuse if you needed to.
You are right that the british are far more likely to send their kids away to boarding school but most of them don't really mind. It's not like it's hell. Boarding school doesn't have to be a bad experience. Yes it's no substitute for proper parenting but it's not abusive.
Behavior modification if you think about it is merely a new twist to an old idea. Send your kids away and they will become a better person by enduring hardships and deprivation. Military academies and so forth began as a very unique European institution that thankfully have not caught on more than they have here in the United States.
I hear alot of people toot their horns about their countries. I like that Covergard fellow and his statements about how superior Denmark is to the rest of the world. Excuse me when Denmark amounts to more than a postage stamp in world existance then I will give a shit.
And you wonder why they all hate us.
Of fucking course Denmark can focus more on their domestic affairs. The only international affairs of recent notice have been their embassies being torched for some islamic cartoons. When they do 1/100th of what America does in the international scene then I will give a toot.
At least they had the balls to publish the cartoons. At least they realize freedom is more than just a catchy slogan. There is only one newspaper in this entire land of the free that was willing to publish those cartoons. And i could do without what we do on the "international scene" personally.
Still though I don't immediately disregard Covergard. He does mean well, his ideas are sound, and he gives a damn.
The sad tale being played out in America at the moment is only another chapter in a long sad tale of abuses in a very long and sicken book.
Now someone fill me in on what this broad is blathering about? I can't be arsed to read this retarded thread.
Basically
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Yes this is true. But it is far less prevalent than it is here.
Validate this claim old son.
Gladly. How many british programs do you see complained about on Fornits? The internet is global. Why yes fornits doesn't get reports of every single program (my school was missed until i started organizing people and posting) but if there were more than one or two instances programs in the UK, don't you think we might know about them. I could see maybe one going under the radar but if they existed in the same volume as they do here, we would know about them by now.
You want another reason?
Doesn't matter either way to me. My point is simple.. No country is free from the taint of their own ballsack stinking from abuse to children. You can view child abuse as a condition unique to America or a condition systematic of the entire Human Race. I tend to see it from the larger perspective myself, yet choose to focus on a very select element of the larger problem.
I focus on what can be fixed from where i am. Good luck changing human nature. I see the big picture but i know it cannot be fixed on such a large scale. Local change gradually spreads. Exposing these programs here helps create global awareness and sets a precedence. I see the program "globally" as all abuse. I see the problem "locally" as programs. I'm not using "local" and "global" literally, but more in a figurative sense. Yes i'm a programmer, and an artist... long story.
Don't think just because you're American your shit doesn't stink. Yes it all stinks everywhere, but in my opinion, our shit is just a little stinkier right now.
I lived through both Boarding schools and TBS programs. Abuse is abuse. Hazing in a Boarding School or systematic torture from staff in TBS is wrong no matter what the severity.
Yes it's all bad. I agree with you there. And i'm tired of arguing about this anyway so let's agree to disagree because it's really irrelevant to the goal at hand anyway.
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People know, they just don't care. Add it to the list of atrocities they hear about daily from Anderson Cooper reporting live from the scene, Tragedy has become a new form of entertainment. If we are using a global scale, the going ons at American teen programs most likely ranks very low on people's give-a-shit meter.
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You haven't validated your claim. I on the other hand have provided a link that shows the reported incidence rate of child abuse to be higher in the UK than in the USA.
While the studies are out of date, and I am somewhat skeptical of such studies anyway, it is interesting that it is posted on a UK goverment website. The information still shows that child abuse rates are higher elsewhere in the world. Obviously they didn't survey Arkansas.
If you carefully read my posts you will see that I already acknowledged that private torture centers aren't quite the problem in the UK. I also clearly on two different occasions stated, very clearly, that the problem exists in the public institutions.
I'm not talking about child abuse in general. I'm talking about institutionalized child abuse (ie. programs and their ilk).
I know that child sexual abuse in general is higher than it is in the US in a lot of places including Europe, but it's an overall statistic and there is no concentrated pocket of abuse to go after. Here, on the other hand, we have programs. It's an easy target to go after. Now if you could find something resembling wwasp or CEDU in the UK(public institutions included), i'd be impressed.
And to guest: No people don't know. Americans tend to care about things when it's in their back yard. Example: One white girl goes missing: there's a multi-state manhunt, flier campaigns, etc etc etc... Jon Benet Ramsey all frigging summer long. Black boys and girls being massacred on a daily basis in Dubai and it lasts all of five minutes on cnn. There are over 300,000 kids (not a typo) living on the streets and sewers of Romania and nobody gives a shit about them. Why? Because it isn't in our back yard. It isn't embarrassing enough to US.
Programs are, and thus if they are exposed to the public at large, can easily become a sensational enough issue to gather national attention. Yes you're right, sensationalism is the key. However, the cruel reality is that people in general only care about atrocities if they're in their country.
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I dont think that anyone is naive enough to think that child abuse within state care or the home is a problem unique to the USA. Just look at the Stolen Children reports which look at the history of Abuse of Aboriginal children in State care. Most countries including Australia have now recognised that Abuse flourishes in a closed environment where kids are cut off from the outside world and have moved toward the foster home model. This is why the tough love industry is so dangerous. Foster care may not be without it's issues but i can see the rationale for it over orphanges.
There is also mandatory reporting in most Australian states which means that any Doctor, social worker or school teacher must report any suspected instance of child abuse. Hence Natcam's report. It is appalling that so many instances are reported but at the very least there is an outside chance that potential abuses in Oz might get looked into by someone with authority. Uniform mandatory reporting has dramtically increased the instances of abuse being reported in Australia in recent years and highlighted the issue. This to my mind is a good thing.
Australia's conservative federal govt wants to abolish this system as it believes that various child welfare depts become overburdened with frivolous claims which turn out to be false. Leftist and cynics argue that this is both a way to justify less funding for child protection and a way to deny that Australia really has any child abuse issues. For this reason i hope MR is here to stay.
The key difference between the US and its other western counterparts is that it seems that in the US private for profit institutions currently have a hell of a lot of leeway to do what they want with kids and parents can also decide to send a kid to a place which may be abusive. It seems that the rest of the world is now moving away from the idea that private schools and institutions are above the law. Moreover there seems to be a perception both within America and outside of it, that American kids are far more out of control and likely to fall through the cracks without tough love than their counterparts. This is not necessarily accurate.
I also do not know of many Private schools in non US countries which are for profit. Are there any countires which have this tradition? Is it even a US tradition or did it just come about with BM facilities and RTCs?
IMO most regualar Private schools everywhere are a way to create and bolster the establishment in the same way that normal non crazy US boarding schools are and therefore put their money into facilities for the kids they educate so that the kid leaves with a born to rule mentality. This is why so many private schools have those pompous "famous old boy/girl" lists on their websites.
American BM schools in contrast profit from their students and actively encourage the idea that the kid is a fuck up who would be nothing without them. Both America and other countries should therefore be as critical of this as possible. This does not mean people are blind to the problems in their own backyard.
http://www.hreoc.gov.au/social_justice/ ... index.html (http://www.hreoc.gov.au/social_justice/stolen_children/index.html)
http://www.aifs.gov.au/nch/bib/mandatory.html (http://www.aifs.gov.au/nch/bib/mandatory.html)
Does the US have mandatory reporting? Did the rate of abuse being reported increase when it was introduced?
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I implore you to learn how to read. I never claimed the issue with the UK was a WWASP or a CEDU like organization. The problems in the UK exist in the public facilities.
ME learn how to read. I said "public institutions included". GAAAH. i never claimed sexual abuse was higher in the US either. I explicitly said the opposite. REREAD my post dammit. I expect lots of these next --> :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
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settle down boys. Settle down. This is turning into a pissing contest
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The US is five times as populated as the UK, and 15 times the population of Australia.
If you are going to do some comparisons, make them fair. The US is much closer to the size of the entire EU than it is to the population of the UK. Australia has the same amount of people as New York state, my home state of California has 14 million more people than Australia.
Why do we hear so much US related shit on the net?
United States ? Internet Users: 159 Million (2002)
United Kingdom ? Internet Users: 25 Million (2002)
Australia ? Internet Users: 9,472,000
Maybe that has something to do with it.
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You know, assholes, there was an actual topic here about two dozen posts ago.
Hey ST poster! You still reading this? You got off that crap forum and called a real professional yet?
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Oh don't so full of shit Oz Girl. You know I was laughing my ass off about it earlier on Yahoo messenger when I was nattering with you.
Psy is alright in my book. I only bust balls of people I can stand. The rest I tend to ignore these days or concoct ludicrious ploys to troll them.
Mind you psy.. I think you will find that I tend to change sides on most issues to suit my own entertainment needs.
Except about the French.. fuckers.
I suspected as much. I was laughing my ass off as well actually as the thread kept going on and on and on.
Milk does have a point though. There was an ST poster reading this at some point. I doubt he took our suggestions though.
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Have you read "exhausted"'s posts? She sure seems to be at a loss about what to do with her kids over there in the UK. I often get the sense that she's really hoping some program will offer to take all three of her kids on scholarship or recruit them for the next Brat Camp UK series.
Aspen has a fat farm there. While "parent choice" incarceration may not be propular with the Brits, they might consider weight loss camp okay. Little would they know it's not any different than any other program, just a different problem to "fix".
While Brits may not be ready for the industry, Aspen etal are slowly working on changing the public attitude toward private pay incarceration.
Sorry about the quote thing, i press quote and expect it to do just that so bear with me...
yes read exhausted's posts, Exhausted has had every door slammed in HER face by every agency in the UK, Exhausted is one of the very rare parents who actually care if her kids turn intop muggers, criminals etc, Exhausted is desperate to get a mental health assessment because she is terrified her son is really ill, Exhausted spent 8 years fighting to get an ADHD assessment which incidentally came back positive within 10 minutes of being in the room
Exhausted does not want to see her children in priosn, she did not bring her children into the world for that, she wants ONE thing for them, Happiness, and at the admission of all 3 boys, they are NOT happy - so sit back & think what I've done wrong, what's not working? I don't think so, I have tried everything there is, EVERYTHING! There is no system in place in the UK to help teens who are really struggling, there is no help for the parents, all there is, is 'wait until they do something and we can slap an ASBO on them' something they wear with pride as it goes - what do you suggest I do? Not ground them? Not punish them? Yep that'll be a sure way to make them grow into adults who can't follow rules or realise there are consequences - you know the little rules of life that help one to hold down a normal thing like a job!
Exhausted has no family, and is very much alone in the world, she also has a successful child who does very well in life, so what is it that Exhausted has done wrong, why isn't it working when all 4 children were brought up exactly the same way??
Get to see a Psychiatrist LOL!!!!! It can only be done through GP referal, the GP has absolutely refused over & over to make the referal so that's a no go - and there is no way I can afford to go private, not a hope in hell.
Exhausted was dragged through the children's home & care system most of her childhood, believe me those places weren't pleasant, but I was safe, safe from the constant mental abuse and trauma suffered when living at home, I should never have been allowed to go back to the lunatic mother & I may have stood half a chance in life!
I am a genuine poster, I have been the kid who was taken away, I was the kid who saw more therapists than you've had hot dinners, death, destruction, violence, alcohol & drug abuse was a daily part of what i saw, it wasn't good and I don't condone putting any child away unless it is a last resort after things are so out of control that the child is unsafe, as was in my case
Deborah, Aspen offered to take my son via e mail!! I immediately said NO way! I would never send him across the pond knowing I was unable to visit or not know what was going on with him, it was not an option, so your theory is way out of line, all i want is some help to bring my family back together and put an end to my children's miserable existene=ces and ensure a bright, healthy & happy future, I want that to happen by us working together as a family, not by sending the boys off in all different directions, you don't know me so don't chat shit about what I think or feel ok?
And Exhausted's partner died when the baby was 2 months old, hope that answers what you wanted to know!
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Talking about yourself in the third person isn't going to help. You even switch between third and first halfway through your post. It's hopeless.
I have tried everything there is, EVERYTHING!
Except things that might, well, work.
what do you suggest I do? Not ground them? Not punish them?
Exactly what I suggest.
Haven't you made it very clear that they're not actually being grounded or punished, as it is, right now? I mean if all they have to look forward to at home is you trying to impose "consequences" on them, and the alternative to that is simply going out with their friends all night and ignoring what you might want, what do you think they're going to do?
Don't you understand this by now? They don't have to listen to you, and they're not. Anything you do with them in the future should reflect this simple fact.
there is no way I can afford to go private, not a hope in hell.
I would never send him across the pond knowing I was unable to visit or not know what was going on with him,
And the money had nothing to do with that? You're telling me that you can afford to send them to some shitpit, but can't afford a real shrink outside of NHS? How can the latter be more expensive than the former?
put an end to my children's miserable existene=ces
If I used that turn of phrase, it could only mean one thing, so I'm calling Freud on this one.
By the way, if every member of "the system" is treating you as if you're insane, there might be a reason for this.
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Have you read "exhausted"'s posts? She sure seems to be at a loss about what to do with her kids over there in the UK. I often get the sense that she's really hoping some program will offer to take all three of her kids on scholarship or recruit them for the next Brat Camp UK series.
Aspen has a fat farm there. While "parent choice" incarceration may not be propular with the Brits, they might consider weight loss camp okay. Little would they know it's not any different than any other program, just a different problem to "fix".
While Brits may not be ready for the industry, Aspen etal are slowly working on changing the public attitude toward private pay incarceration.
Sorry about the quote thing, i press quote and expect it to do just that so bear with me...
yes read exhausted's posts, Exhausted has had every door slammed in HER face by every agency in the UK, Exhausted is one of the very rare parents who actually care if her kids turn intop muggers, criminals etc, Exhausted is desperate to get a mental health assessment because she is terrified her son is really ill, Exhausted spent 8 years fighting to get an ADHD assessment which incidentally came back positive within 10 minutes of being in the room
Exhausted does not want to see her children in priosn, she did not bring her children into the world for that, she wants ONE thing for them, Happiness, and at the admission of all 3 boys, they are NOT happy - so sit back & think what I've done wrong, what's not working? I don't think so, I have tried everything there is, EVERYTHING! There is no system in place in the UK to help teens who are really struggling, there is no help for the parents, all there is, is 'wait until they do something and we can slap an ASBO on them' something they wear with pride as it goes - what do you suggest I do? Not ground them? Not punish them?
No. I suggest those things might be appropriate if they misbehave.
Yep that'll be a sure way to make them grow into adults who can't follow rules or realise there are consequences - you know the little rules of life that help one to hold down a normal thing like a job!
Exhausted has no family, and is very much alone in the world, she also has a successful child who does very well in life, so what is it that Exhausted has done wrong, why isn't it working when all 4 children were brought up exactly the same way??
There are no guarantees in parenting. You can do all the right things and still have kids that misbehave and raise general mayhem. Later in life, the effects of your good parenting will show up in them. It's normal for kids to misbehave in the teen years, and drinking is culturally far more common in the UK than it is in the states.
Get to see a Psychiatrist LOL!!!!! It can only be done through GP referal, the GP has absolutely refused over & over to make the referal so that's a no go - and there is no way I can afford to go private, not a hope in hell.
Yes that is one part of your system that is messed up over there (the GP referrals) but at least you have free health care at all. If a shrink won't help perhaps a social worker could make some suggestions.
here (http://http://isaccorp.org/experts.asp) is a list of common suggestions from IECA.
Exhausted was dragged through the children's home & care system most of her childhood, believe me those places weren't pleasant, but I was safe, safe from the constant mental abuse and trauma suffered when living at home, I should never have been allowed to go back to the lunatic mother & I may have stood half a chance in life!
I am a genuine poster, I have been the kid who was taken away, I was the kid who saw more therapists than you've had hot dinners, death, destruction, violence, alcohol & drug abuse was a daily part of what i saw, it wasn't good and I don't condone putting any child away unless it is a last resort after things are so out of control that the child is unsafe, as was in my case
Deborah, Aspen offered to take my son via e mail!! I immediately said NO way! I would never send him across the pond knowing I was unable to visit or not know what was going on with him, it was not an option, so your theory is way out of line, all i want is some help to bring my family back together and put an end to my children's miserable existene=ces and ensure a bright, healthy & happy future, I want that to happen by us working together as a family, not by sending the boys off in all different directions, you don't know me so don't chat shit about what I think or feel ok?
And Exhausted's partner died when the baby was 2 months old, hope that answers what you wanted to know!
Ok. I realize your want a happy and bright future for your kids, but the faster you realize programs will never be able to magically sell you that, the better you will be in the long run. Parenting can be tough and kids can/will be little monsters.
Just realize, that in the long run, things will turn out fine if you work with your kids, tell them you love them, and ask them how you can help them. You cannot force them to "help themselves" like program says. They need to want to change. You cannot make them. Until then all you can do is support them and love them. Generally, I find you get what you give. Find alternatives to program.
Subcontracting brainwashing is not an option. And yes that is exactly what happens in program.
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here is another interesting study about child abuse. The information seems out of date, but it is rather insightful:
http://tinyurl.com/y9lyow (http://tinyurl.com/y9lyow)
My point here is this:
Child abuse isn't the sole creation of the United States of America. George Bush Jr. isn't head of some world plot to export and franchise WWASP all over the god damn world. If some crazy broad in the UK wants to ship her kid off to a teen torture center in the USA then more power to her.
I don't give damn if she does or doesn't.
If she can't get her head far enough out of her ass to find a place to abuse her kid in the UK then we here in the USA will be happy to deliver for her.
We saved their asses in two world wars I am sure we can save this lady's ass in her desire to have her child beaten like damn Alabama huntin' dog.
To this anon lady.. If you really really want to have your kid beaten and abused you go ahead and PM me.
I know a really fucked up place that doesn't even get mentioned here on Fornits but every once in a blue moon. I'll give you the details you need so that you can get your kid so beaten black and blue he will shit bruises for a month.
I'll PM you as & when I can register, am waiting for validation
I don't need to send any of my boys away to have them driven away and the crap scared out of them, I know people who would do it for me - fact is it's not what I want
I'm not some 'crazy broad' I'm a very intelligent person, coping with a hell of alot, with both issues from my own past & the terrible fear that my own kids are going down some truly horrible path
However i do understand why some parents are that desperate to stop their kids abusing themselves that they will go to these lengths, I'm sure you'll find they have all tried everything else possible - be sure to tell me where this place is just in case I need to contact them though ;-)
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You have to forgive Milk. He posts what everybody else is secretly thinking.
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here is another interesting study about child abuse. The information seems out of date, but it is rather insightful:
http://tinyurl.com/y9lyow (http://tinyurl.com/y9lyow)
My point here is this:
Child abuse isn't the sole creation of the United States of America. George Bush Jr. isn't head of some world plot to export and franchise WWASP all over the god damn world. If some crazy broad in the UK wants to ship her kid off to a teen torture center in the USA then more power to her.
I don't give damn if she does or doesn't.
If she can't get her head far enough out of her ass to find a place to abuse her kid in the UK then we here in the USA will be happy to deliver for her.
We saved their asses in two world wars I am sure we can save this lady's ass in her desire to have her child beaten like damn Alabama huntin' dog.
To this anon lady.. If you really really want to have your kid beaten and abused you go ahead and PM me.
I know a really fucked up place that doesn't even get mentioned here on Fornits but every once in a blue moon. I'll give you the details you need so that you can get your kid so beaten black and blue he will shit bruises for a month.
I'll PM you as & when I can register, am waiting for validation
I don't need to send any of my boys away to have them driven away and the crap scared out of them, I know people who would do it for me - fact is it's not what I want
I'm not some 'crazy broad' I'm a very intelligent person, coping with a hell of alot, with both issues from my own past & the terrible fear that my own kids are going down some truly horrible path
However i do understand why some parents are that desperate to stop their kids abusing themselves that they will go to these lengths, I'm sure you'll find they have all tried everything else possible - be sure to tell me where this place is just in case I need to contact them though ;-)
Well it's good you don't want to send them away. Your kids will appreciate that in the long run. It seams you are coping with fear. Fear that your kids will go down a miserable path and their heads will explode and they will be dead or insane or in jail. You were posting on ST. What exactly did you expect? That site's whole purpose is to scare the shit out of parents so they will think they need program. No matter what your kid's problem is, they will always need program on that site. You do realize the whole industry, from Ed consultants to the schools themselves are completely unregulated in most states.
What have your kids been up to exactly?
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Every member of the system treats me as if I'm insane for daring to ask them to do their jobs! It's not exactly a hidden secret here in the UK, our social services are rubbish, they aren't interested unless you are beating your kid to death, and even then they don't help you, they just prosecute (actually I am with the prosecution thing) But hey.....when a parent has spent years & years begging, pleading, threatening, blackmailing just to get a simple statement done and each time a file is opened, no-one calls or visits and the file is then closed again, you tell me, is it me or them? Have you any idea how exhausted I really am? I deal with daily life and the police, the school, the suspensions, the complaining neighbours, the irate victims on the doorstep threatening me, every single day of my life, quite often several times a day....yes this part of it is about me! I can't be a good parent all the time I have been awake most the night because they have misbehaved in soje way or won't come in, or won't sleep - it has absolutely nothing to do with the way I am towards them when they are here, I have tried arranging nights out, nights in, family evenings, but hell no, they'd rather be on the streets comitting crime and getting stoned/drunk, I can't believe the mentality that goes behind 'always blame the parents' just sometimes, we do everything we can and still get it slapped back in our faces
I am just a genuine mother who really does want the best for her kids, both now & in the future, and I am reaching out for help on the internet because there is nothing in the way of support here
Think what you like, you're going to anyway and I have a skin as thick as a rhino
Sorry about the typo's, am sitting in the dark
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here is another interesting study about child abuse. The information seems out of date, but it is rather insightful:
http://tinyurl.com/y9lyow (http://tinyurl.com/y9lyow)
My point here is this:
Child abuse isn't the sole creation of the United States of America. George Bush Jr. isn't head of some world plot to export and franchise WWASP all over the god damn world. If some crazy broad in the UK wants to ship her kid off to a teen torture center in the USA then more power to her.
I don't give damn if she does or doesn't.
If she can't get her head far enough out of her ass to find a place to abuse her kid in the UK then we here in the USA will be happy to deliver for her.
We saved their asses in two world wars I am sure we can save this lady's ass in her desire to have her child beaten like damn Alabama huntin' dog.
To this anon lady.. If you really really want to have your kid beaten and abused you go ahead and PM me.
I know a really fucked up place that doesn't even get mentioned here on Fornits but every once in a blue moon. I'll give you the details you need so that you can get your kid so beaten black and blue he will shit bruises for a month.
I'll PM you as & when I can register, am waiting for validation
I don't need to send any of my boys away to have them driven away and the crap scared out of them, I know people who would do it for me - fact is it's not what I want
I'm not some 'crazy broad' I'm a very intelligent person, coping with a hell of alot, with both issues from my own past & the terrible fear that my own kids are going down some truly horrible path
However i do understand why some parents are that desperate to stop their kids abusing themselves that they will go to these lengths, I'm sure you'll find they have all tried everything else possible - be sure to tell me where this place is just in case I need to contact them though ;-)
Well it's good you don't want to send them away. Your kids will appreciate that in the long run. It seams you are coping with fear. Fear that your kids will go down a miserable path and their heads will explode and they will be dead or insane or in jail. You were posting on ST. What exactly did you expect? That site's whole purpose is to scare the shit out of parents so they will think they need program. No matter what your kid's problem is, they will always need program on that site. You do realize the whole industry, from Ed consultants to the schools themselves are completely unregulated in most states.
What have your kids been up to exactly?
You hit the nail on the head, it is fear I live with, for exactly those reasons....and probably due to having losyt my brother at a very young age through alcohol abuse, that was probably the harshest thing about the whole screwed up life we lead.
Yes I am well aware that th Industry is about getting my money - which is why i was so shocked that The Aspen Group asked me to put my son on a plane that night so they could meet him at the airport the next morning (No lady that ain't going to happen) However I do believe some kids may end up dead or in a very bad way if they aren't sent away, I know my own life would be a lot worse if I hadn't been put into care, as I say, it was horrible and I am scarred by it, but that's nothing compared to the scars I received from home life - I write not only as an exhausted p[arent but also as a still very angry child!
What do my kids do? Shoplift, drink (vodka) skip school, smoke weed, do other drugs, intimidate residents in the area, vandalise, graffiti, set fires to everything, steal from me and their sister constantly (I have to carry a plastic bag with all alcohol, money, cigarettes in it) and that's no joke, I even have to take it to the bathroom with me or they'll strip me clean, I have been attacked by both the 19 yr old and 14 yr old, it's probably just easier to tell you what they don't do.
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Every member of the system treats me as if I'm insane for daring to ask them to do their jobs! It's not exactly a hidden secret here in the UK, our social services are rubbish, they aren't interested unless you are beating your kid to death, and even then they don't help you, they just prosecute (actually I am with the prosecution thing) But hey.....when a parent has spent years & years begging, pleading, threatening, blackmailing just to get a simple statement done and each time a file is opened, no-one calls or visits and the file is then closed again, you tell me, is it me or them? Have you any idea how exhausted I really am? I deal with daily life and the police, the school, the suspensions, the complaining neighbours, the irate victims on the doorstep threatening me, every single day of my life, quite often several times a day....yes this part of it is about me! I can't be a good parent all the time I have been awake most the night because they have misbehaved in soje way or won't come in, or won't sleep - it has absolutely nothing to do with the way I am towards them when they are here, I have tried arranging nights out, nights in, family evenings, but hell no, they'd rather be on the streets comitting crime and getting stoned/drunk, I can't believe the mentality that goes behind 'always blame the parents' just sometimes, we do everything we can and still get it slapped back in our faces
It happens. You can do everything right and you kids can still screw up. It's nobody's fault. Some people just have to learn the hard way. For the most part, it's out of your hands. You can't force them to change. Here's what i suggest:
Volunteering them for some sort of charity. Seeing how others suffer and helping them, can help your kids have a sense of purpose, as if they're doing something good in the world. Having nothing to do is asking for trouble. If they won't go, force them.
Weeping. Tell them how upset you are about their behavior.
Ask them why they do what they do.
As far as the hash and alcohol are concerned: most kids do this at some point in growing up. Most just grow out of it. I don't suggest you ignore it either. Just state that you don't want it in the house, and if they every feel things are getting out of control, to tell you about it. If they get into coke / heroin / meth. Then you have a different class of problem entirely. But at least if you are open with them about things, and they feel they can talk to you, you can help them before it's too late. Don't condemn them for experimentation. Talk frankly about things and tell them your concerns. Institute a dialogue that does not involve condemnation.
I'm sure Deborah could have some suggestions.
I am just a genuine mother who really does want the best for her kids, both now & in the future, and I am reaching out for help on the internet because there is nothing in the way of support here
Think what you like, you're going to anyway and I have a skin as thick as a rhino
Sorry about the typo's, am sitting in the dark
Parents often aren't extremely well though of here because there are a lot of kids who are bitter about their experiences and there ARE parents who truly do not care about the welfare of their kids. It appears you aren't one of them. If you take anything from this site, realize this: programs won't help. It's an unregulated industry.
I'm not a parent, which is why i suggest Deborah step in with some suggestions. I'm sure TSW might have some good suggestions as well.
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What do my kids do? Shoplift, drink (vodka) skip school, smoke weed, do other drugs, intimidate residents in the area, vandalise, graffiti, set fires to everything, steal from me and their sister constantly (I have to carry a plastic bag with all alcohol, money, cigarettes in it) and that's no joke, I even have to take it to the bathroom with me or they'll strip me clean, I have been attacked by both the 19 yr old and 14 yr old, it's probably just easier to tell you what they don't do.
It sounds like they're pretty bad. Attacking is out of line and they need to know that. Tell them if it happens again you will call the cops. (and do it if they attack you again)
Hmm. Well they sound like little ruffians all right. I'm guessing you live in a fairly poisonous area. I'm also guessing you work full time and they have a lot of free time. In my opinion, that's what you want to stop. Also, my suggestions in my previous post might help in that area (open dialogue, volunteering). Find out how serious things are and promise them no consequences for confessing things to you (and be true to that). If there is a serious hard drug problem rehab might be an option(rehab, 30 day, not program). I wouldn't suggest forcing it on any of them though. They have to want to change.
Ask them what they want in life. My guess is they aren't thinking much about the future. Talk to them on their level, it's the only way they will listen. Ask them what they want from you, and tell them what you want from them. Maybe you can come to a compromise.
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Thank you so much for the constructive thoughts
we are a very open family, I have always talked to my kids form a very young age about the danger of drugs, safe sex, crime - I have also taught them to always stop & think how they might feel if what they do to others happened to htem, or to me, how would it make them feel?
My children have always been encouraged to talk openly to me about anything and everything, without me going into a screeching frenzy over it, I still do this every single day when they finally arrive home (If they arrive home) I ask if they need to talk about their day, ask what they've been up to, who with, can i smell alcohol or drugs on them......I nEVER shout at them over things, i'd rather they weren't afraid to talk to me and start to back off...
I call the police every time, they arent interested most the time, when the 14 yr old chased me up the stairs brandashing a baseball bat at me they said "Oh well we'll leave you to it then" they have also told me not to call them when my sons go missing as they are not here to babysit my kids
There is no way on this earth they would do anything voluntarily, they've been kicked out of every club and activity I've put them into, and I can't force them as they just run away if I try to set anything up
Again rehab has to be a GP's referal and we all know that story
I'm just so desperate to help my kids back on the straight & narrow, but I really cannot get the help to do so, all I have is threats of prosecution and angry ppl shouting at me for their behaviour, i have cried, ignored them, begged, taked and pleaded with them to stop behaving like this but they just shrug their shoulders and say they don't really care what they put me through, and although we live in a small village whichh is nice, there are some undesireables here which they seem to be attracted to.
I actually gave up my job to work for myself so that I can work around them and what they need, but it's made no difference, I hardly ever see them, they just wak out after throwing some swear words at me and I may not see them for hours or days, depends what mood they're in
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Kick the 19-year-old out of your house. 18 is the age of majority in Britain isn't it? Tell him that he has a week to find a place to live and that you're not going to keep a home for what he does anymore. He's an adult. Treat him like one.
Don't keep asking your kids what they're up to. You already know. Don't bother with that anymore.
I think most of this has to do with the absence of a father figure in their lives. At some level they think that what they're doing is what they should be doing. They never learned any counterexamples, and instead have aligned themselves with the 'thug' elements of youth culture. This is an old, old story.
Again, step back, stop whatever your habits are towards them (something you're doing, that you're not telling us about, is really pissing them off- even violent kids don't go after their mothers with baseball bats unless they're either literally insane or they have a reason), and accept that they've gone and grown themselves up in a direction you don't like.
If you're having problems with them stealing alcohol and cigarettes, throw the damn things away and don't buy any more. You've "tried everything", have you tried that? If your kids see you drinking and smoking, what do you think they're going to learn to do, and why would you get pissed off when they do it?
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Kick the 19-year-old out of your house. 18 is the age of majority in Britain isn't it? Tell him that he has a week to find a place to live and that you're not going to keep a home for what he does anymore. He's an adult. Treat him like one.
Milk might have a point here. As much as it really rubs against my normal opinion on this issue there is a welfare system in Britain. If he's a bad influence on the rest of your kids it might set an example.
Don't keep asking your kids what they're up to. You already know. Don't bother with that anymore.
Again. There might be some wisdom in this as well. If your kids don't care when you act like you give a shit, maybe if you act like you don't care anymore it will make them wonder why. I don't know if it's a good idea but it sounds like you've tried mostly everything else.
I think most of this has to do with the absence of a father figure in their lives. At some level they think that what they're doing is what they should be doing. They never learned any counterexamples, and instead have aligned themselves with the 'thug' elements of youth culture. This is an old, old story.
Again, step back, stop whatever your habits are towards them (something you're doing, that you're not telling us about, is really pissing them off- even violent kids don't go after their mothers with baseball bats unless they're either literally insane or they have a reason), and accept that they've gone and grown themselves up in a direction you don't like.
I think milk is right about the father figure thing.
And like i said, he posts what everybody else is thinking. Your kids obviously have a deep resentment towards you. Surely there must be a reason why. It may not be a good reason, maybe a perceived reason, but there is a reason. Have you asked them why? do you know why?
If you're having problems with them stealing alcohol and cigarettes, throw the damn things away and don't buy any more. You've "tried everything", have you tried that? If your kids see you drinking and smoking, what do you think they're going to learn to do, and why would you get pissed off when they do it?
I aggree with him on this. Except for the cigarettes. I smoke and don't think that in your stressful condition it would be a good idea to try and quit.
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Thank you so much for the constructive thoughts
we are a very open family, I have always talked to my kids form a very young age about the danger of drugs, safe sex, crime - I have also taught them to always stop & think how they might feel if what they do to others happened to htem, or to me, how would it make them feel?
My children have always been encouraged to talk openly to me about anything and everything, without me going into a screeching frenzy over it, I still do this every single day when they finally arrive home (If they arrive home) I ask if they need to talk about their day, ask what they've been up to, who with, can i smell alcohol or drugs on them......I nEVER shout at them over things, i'd rather they weren't afraid to talk to me and start to back off...
I call the police every time, they arent interested most the time, when the 14 yr old chased me up the stairs brandashing a baseball bat at me they said "Oh well we'll leave you to it then" they have also told me not to call them when my sons go missing as they are not here to babysit my kids
Your pigs really sound like pigs.
There is no way on this earth they would do anything voluntarily, they've been kicked out of every club and activity I've put them into, and I can't force them as they just run away if I try to set anything up
Hmm. There has to be somewhere that wouldn't kick them out.
Again rehab has to be a GP's referal and we all know that story
I'm just so desperate to help my kids back on the straight & narrow, but I really cannot get the help to do so, all I have is threats of prosecution and angry ppl shouting at me for their behaviour, i have cried, ignored them, begged, taked and pleaded with them to stop behaving like this but they just shrug their shoulders and say they don't really care what they put me through, and although we live in a small village whichh is nice, there are some undesireables here which they seem to be attracted to.
I actually gave up my job to work for myself so that I can work around them and what they need, but it's made no difference, I hardly ever see them, they just wak out after throwing some swear words at me and I may not see them for hours or days, depends what mood they're in
Well. Your GP sounds like an asshole. I can't remember if they're assigned or if you can choose. If possible you might want to try and change your GP.
You could also play hardball (absolute last resort). Find out about the undesirables they hang around with, tell the neighbors, and go as a group to the police demanding something be done. If you can, get evidence on them. I suggest, however, doing it quietly so as not to provoke vengeful hooligans.
You could also do this(second to last resort): Set a curfew. Every night, at a specific time, lock the door. Tell your kids you will do this. Every morning, unlock it. If they miss curfew, tough. Don't let them in. Buy earplugs and go to sleep.
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Because as an adult I am entitled to smoke and/or drink if I so wish?? :-?
I made that mistake and don't want the same for them, they are very young to be smoking.
I don't drink very often, in fact it's pretty rare, but if I do fancy a drink why shouldn't I be able to relax in the evening and have one, most of the alcohol in the house is usually left over from birthday presents or xmas etc......
i agree about the 19 yr old, that is already in place, the aw says I have to give him a month's notice to move, so |i am moving house without him
As for the 14 yr old attacking me, that is what I am trying to say, he has a mental health problem, probably Bi polar, the reason he chased me with a baseball bat is because weed makes him extremely aggressive, and I'd caught him seconds beforehand smoking it and told hijm it was taking the piss to actually do it in my house, he wasn't impressed at being caught out - but as i can't get anyone to actually see him I can't know or seek treatment - you tell me what I'm doing to piss them off so much that they'd put me through a living hell every single day of my life, I dread the phone ringing, the door knocking, it is constant, but i am at an absolute loss as to what i can ever have doen to piss them off so much that they have such little regard for me....my kids have everything, materially and emmotionally, I have always been there for them and loved them unconditionally (which is why I want them to be happy)
I also agree the lack of male role model hasn't helped much, but I can't help a death, or that the male role model of the 19 yr old has just made things worse, but honestly they are like it with or without him here
I cannot and will not just accept they've grown up into a direction I don't like, i am their mother, I have a duty and love them enough to do what it takes to protect them from making seriously bad choices, i will never give up the fight, they are 13 and 14 yrs old! They don't know how to make decisions that could seriously affect their futures!! No, I'm sorry, I won't do that
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Heh Psy, i locked the 14 yr old out for 4 nights once using that same method, not in by 10.00 and the doors get locked, I am now under threat of prosecution from social services for neglecting my child (wtf??) and was told I am never to do that again, so I have tio allow him to stab me or beat me or whatever, he can walk out on a grounding and there are no consequences because i am not alowed to hand them out
No to changing the GP - I live in a rural area and there is only one small surgery, another good reason to move me thinks, my GP is a total arse
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Because as an adult I am entitled to smoke and/or drink if I so wish?? :-?
It is this attitude that leads down a one-way path to ruin. Children learn by example. Period.
I made that mistake and don't want the same for them, they are very young to be smoking.
I don't drink very often, in fact it's pretty rare, but if I do fancy a drink why shouldn't I be able to relax in the evening and have one, most of the alcohol in the house is usually left over from birthday presents or xmas etc......
Oh my! Is that justification I hear? I do believe that is, mixed with a twinge of fear. You've tried everything for your children.. except giving up the bottle.
the male role model of the 19 yr old has just made things worse, but honestly they are like it with or without him here
Do you really think that his presence at that exact moment is going to affect your children's behavior? Do you even know what a role model is? Just because he might not be there at that exact instant doesn't mean he isn't still affecting his siblings.
I keep thinking that genetics might have something to do with this. Who was their father? Was he anywhere near as nasty, brutal, etc as they are?
They don't know how to make decisions that could seriously affect their futures!!
Don't you understand yet that they already are?
I'd caught him seconds beforehand smoking it and told hijm it was taking the piss to actually do it in my house, he wasn't impressed at being caught out
See, now this I can visualize.
You: "Oh bugger it's really taking the piss now, you're smoking pot inside my house."
Him (thinking): Sod off, cunt.
You: "Do you have any idea what I've done for you? What I've sacrificed for you? And now you're going to go ahead and"
Him (reaching for baseball bat): "Shut UP you miserable bitch."
You: Oh shit- *run run*
I'll end this with a simple fact: Your children hate you. Do I need to tattoo this on your forehead in mirror writing, so when you wake up every morning you can read it and be reminded? They seriously, literally, personally, fiercely hate you. In fact, from what I gather, the only reason you're not dead yet is because they know they really will go to jail if they kill you.
Because odds are, you're every bit as sanctimonious I'm-just-trying-to-help with them as you are on this board, and that above all else is making them furious.
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Because as an adult I am entitled to smoke and/or drink if I so wish?? :-?
I made that mistake and don't want the same for them, they are very young to be smoking.
I don't drink very often, in fact it's pretty rare, but if I do fancy a drink why shouldn't I be able to relax in the evening and have one, most of the alcohol in the house is usually left over from birthday presents or xmas etc......
i agree about the 19 yr old, that is already in place, the aw says I have to give him a month's notice to move, so |i am moving house without him
As for the 14 yr old attacking me, that is what I am trying to say, he has a mental health problem, probably Bi polar, the reason he chased me with a baseball bat is because weed makes him extremely aggressive, and I'd caught him seconds beforehand smoking it and told hijm it was taking the piss to actually do it in my house, he wasn't impressed at being caught out - but as i can't get anyone to actually see him I can't know or seek treatment - you tell me what I'm doing to piss them off so much that they'd put me through a living hell every single day of my life, I dread the phone ringing, the door knocking, it is constant, but i am at an absolute loss as to what i can ever have done to piss them off so much that they have such little regard for me....my kids have everything, materially and emotionally, I have always been there for them and loved them unconditionally (which is why I want them to be happy)
Well you might ask them why they are so angry with you. I find it really odd that weed makes him aggressive. Are you sure it's not laced with something?
If he is Bipolar i'd truly recommend getting him to a shrink. Take him to the fucking GP and raise a stink until he aggrees to refer a shrink. Don't take no for an answer. Threaten to report him. Whatever it takes. Medication might help. he might be trying to self-medicate with the weed.
I also agree the lack of male role model hasn't helped much, but I can't help a death, or that the male role model of the 19 yr old has just made things worse, but honestly they are like it with or without him here
I cannot and will not just accept they've grown up into a direction I don't like, i am their mother, I have a duty and love them enough to do what it takes to protect them from making seriously bad choices, i will never give up the fight, they are 13 and 14 yrs old! They don't know how to make decisions that could seriously affect their futures!! No, I'm sorry, I won't do that
I never said give up the fight. I said pretend to give up the fight. See what happens. Tell them: "i dont' give a fuck anymore what you do. so you go off and do whatever the hell you want." They will probably look fairly puzzled and maybe start wondering what they've done now to bring you to that point.
Milk is abrasive but he does have a point. Your kids seem to hate you. Ask them why. It seems as if (not necessarily is) you aren't telling us everything. And that's your right, but after all, the internet affords a great deal of anonymity. If there is something you're not mentioning, it might help things make more sense.
And if alcohol is dangerous for your kids. Throw it out. If you can't... well that's another issue entirely. I find it unlikely that you go through the trouble of carrying a bottle around in a bag if it's just a Christmas present. It would be more convenient to throw it out if you don't drink it. The picture just doesn't fit.
If you have a drinking problem, well that might be the source of the resentment, or part of the cause. Your kids might not only be learning from exaple, but also might not respect you if they perceive you as a "drunk". But the above is just a "seems as if" again.
I think it is a good idea to move though. Try to introduce your kid to new friends where you go. He might not like them, but then again, he might.
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Because as an adult I am entitled to smoke and/or drink if I so wish?? :-?
It is this attitude that leads down a one-way path to ruin. Children learn by example. Period.
I made that mistake and don't want the same for them, they are very young to be smoking.
I don't drink very often, in fact it's pretty rare, but if I do fancy a drink why shouldn't I be able to relax in the evening and have one, most of the alcohol in the house is usually left over from birthday presents or xmas etc......
Oh my! Is that justification I hear? I do believe that is, mixed with a twinge of fear. You've tried everything for your children.. except giving up the bottle.
the male role model of the 19 yr old has just made things worse, but honestly they are like it with or without him here
Do you really think that his presence at that exact moment is going to affect your children's behavior? Do you even know what a role model is? Just because he might not be there at that exact instant doesn't mean he isn't still affecting his siblings.
I keep thinking that genetics might have something to do with this. Who was their father? Was he anywhere near as nasty, brutal, etc as they are?
They don't know how to make decisions that could seriously affect their futures!!
Don't you understand yet that they already are?
I'd caught him seconds beforehand smoking it and told hijm it was taking the piss to actually do it in my house, he wasn't impressed at being caught out
See, now this I can visualize.
You: "Oh bugger it's really taking the piss now, you're smoking pot inside my house."
Him (thinking): Sod off, cunt.
You: "Do you have any idea what I've done for you? What I've sacrificed for you? And now you're going to go ahead and"
Him (reaching for baseball bat): "Shut UP you miserable bitch."
You: Oh shit- *run run*
I'll end this with a simple fact: Your children hate you. Do I need to tattoo this on your forehead in mirror writing, so when you wake up every morning you can read it and be reminded? They seriously, literally, personally, fiercely hate you. In fact, from what I gather, the only reason you're not dead yet is because they know they really will go to jail if they kill you.
Because odds are, you're every bit as sanctimonious I'm-just-trying-to-help with them as you are on this board, and that above all else is making them furious.
MGDP, you're a complete fucking asshole.
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Ma'am: no your kids do not hate you. If they did they would of left already, that's what people do when they can't stand other people. Your kids are hurting, as you know and see and I can tell you are in pain because of that. I have no better advice than what has already been given on both forums, other than to say I hope you get through it. I was one of those teen boys too, and did worse things than your kids. They are growing up and defining their manhood in a unhealthy way but eventually they will get through it. Even the worst teenager who seems like they are on a path straight to hell, eventually matures. Hopefuly your oldest wil get his shit together and start helping out with the other boys, that seems like the best option because it seems like too much to handle by yourself. I am never surprised at how many program parents are single mothers with multiple sons, who are aggressive. It's easy to understand why you would want someone like that out of your house with no father at home. I want to say again, your kids don't hate you. They are hurting and miss their dad and trying to do their best to deal with things they don't even understand yet. They probably cannot even identify what they are feeling or why at this point. Your kids will remember the shit you are going through now and one day apoloogize and hopefully recipricate in the form of taking care of you if you ever need that. You are one of the parents out there trying, in the trenches not taking the easy way out and you defeinitely deserve some credit for that. Good luck.
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Yeah, I have chatted with Exhausted and she is certainly a very, nice person. I suggested she come over to Fornits and take a look around. She is most definitely not like the majority of ST posters.She just feels hopeless with the lack of resources in the United Kingdom. I told her props for not shipping her son to ASPEN.I told her that if she had the proper resources in the United Kingdom, she might not be even thinking about any program.
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It is this attitude that leads down a one-way path to ruin.
Oh my! Is that justification I hear? I do believe that is, mixed with a twinge of fear. You've tried everything for your children.. except giving up the bottle.
Do you really think that his presence at that exact moment is going to affect your children's behavior? Do you even know what a role model is? Just because he might not be there at that exact instant doesn't mean he isn't still affecting his siblings.
I keep thinking that genetics might have something to do with this. Who was their father? Was he anywhere near as nasty, brutal, etc as they are?
Don't you understand yet that they already are?
See, now this I can visualize.
You: "Oh bugger it's really taking the piss now, you're smoking pot inside my house."
Him (thinking): Sod off, cunt.
You: "Do you have any idea what I've done for you? What I've sacrificed for you? And now you're going to go ahead and"
Him (reaching for baseball bat): "Shut UP you miserable bitch."
You: Oh shit- *run run*
I'll end this with a simple fact: Your children hate you. Do I need to tattoo this on your forehead in mirror writing, so when you wake up every morning you can read it and be reminded? They seriously, literally, personally, fiercely hate you. In fact, from what I gather, the only reason you're not dead yet is because they know they really will go to jail if they kill you.
Because odds are, you're every bit as sanctimonious I'm-just-trying-to-help with them as you are on this board, and that above all else is making them furious.
You would have made a great seminar facilitator for WWASPS. They use the same self righteous, pretend-to-care, tear-you-apart strategy you do!
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::rocker::
Damn, I really would make a mean fucking programmie, wouldn't I?
Aren't you all glad I'm not?
To the original poster: Remember, your kids are about as mean as I am, they're just not as smart. They're nasty and brutal and potentially deadly. The only way forward is to make them accept how dangerous they are. If you continue to try to deny their power, it's only going to get worse.
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Brighter future for troubled teens
23 November 2006 | 22:09
TROUBLED teens are on the road to a brighter future thanks to a unique initiative in Ipswich - but more youngsters are needed to ensure the scheme's future.
Charity Nacro is offering those aged between 16 and 18 the chance to build their own motorbikes, race them on an off-road track and at the same time work towards a recognised qualification.
The free 12-week programme is coordinated by semi-professional stunt rider Nik Soar, who has been filmed taking part in his dare-devil exploits for the BBC and The Discovery Channel.
The cash to provide the course has come from the European Social Fund and the Learning and Skills Council.
Mr Soar said the aim of the initiative was to help youngsters not in education, employment or training.
But with only a few teens taking advantage so far, there is a desperate need for referrals to ensure the project continues.
He said: ?We have lots of funding and an excellent course but it's difficult to get referrals.
?We have given presentations at the YMCA, Connexions, The Foyer and Youth Offending. Young people can also refer themselves.
?Each session is three hours long and we try to make it fun. Some of those coming to us have dyslexia or ADHD (Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), so there is the least amount of writing possible.
?They are not having someone dictate to them or just read from a text - it's a very practical course.?
The course is based at Nacro's base at 247 Felixstowe Road.
Students leave with a City and Guilds qualification and as well as the hands-on approach to mechanics and the chance to ride the bikes, the young people can also take up an opportunity of work experience at one of two garages in Ipswich.
If the course is deemed a success in Ipswich, it may also be set up in Bury St Edmunds and Lowestoft.
What do you think of the course? Write to Your Letters, Evening Star, 30 Lower Brook Street, Ipswich, IP4 1AN or e-mail www.nacro.org.uk (http://www.nacro.org.uk)
source (http://http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/content/eveningstar/news/story.aspx?brand=ESTOnline&category=News&tBrand=ESTOnline&tCategory=News&itemid=IPED22%20Nov%202006%2009%3A44%3A40%3A933)
maybe theyd take a 19 year old?
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Confronting Britain's teenage wasteland
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1204/p09s01-coop.html (http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1204/p09s01-coop.html)
Can the supernannies really tame Britain's tearaways?
http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArt ... ID=1889861 (http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=105&ArticleID=1889861)
Bleak Picture for UK Children
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?pag ... le&id=2744 (http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?page=article&id=2744)
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Woo hoo! Fear mongering! When's the last time we had a good old-fashioned fear fight on Fornits, anyway?
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Woo hoo! Fear mongering! When's the last time we had a good old-fashioned fear fight on Fornits, anyway?
You seem to be off to a good start.
It is this attitude that leads down a one-way path to ruin.
Oh my! Is that justification I hear? I do believe that is, mixed with a twinge of fear. You've tried everything for your children.. except giving up the bottle.
Do you really think that his presence at that exact moment is going to affect your children's behavior? Do you even know what a role model is? Just because he might not be there at that exact instant doesn't mean he isn't still affecting his siblings.
I keep thinking that genetics might have something to do with this. Who was their father? Was he anywhere near as nasty, brutal, etc as they are?
Don't you understand yet that they already are?
See, now this I can visualize.
You: "Oh bugger it's really taking the piss now, you're smoking pot inside my house."
Him (thinking): Sod off, cunt.
You: "Do you have any idea what I've done for you? What I've sacrificed for you? And now you're going to go ahead and"
Him (reaching for baseball bat): "Shut UP you miserable bitch."
You: Oh shit- *run run*
I'll end this with a simple fact: Your children hate you. Do I need to tattoo this on your forehead in mirror writing, so when you wake up every morning you can read it and be reminded? They seriously, literally, personally, fiercely hate you. In fact, from what I gather, the only reason you're not dead yet is because they know they really will go to jail if they kill you.
Because odds are, you're every bit as sanctimonious I'm-just-trying-to-help with them as you are on this board, and that above all else is making them furious.
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The christian science monitor is hardly likely to be the most moderate and non alarmist paper now is it?
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Out of curiousity, this question is for Exhausted, what convinced you to say no to Aspen?
Also could you please get an account? I would dearly love to discuss your situation in greater detail. Don't let the reception you have recieved so far turn you off to posting here on Fornits. At the very minimum I would hope you to be the sort of person who would appreciate honest opinions. Not the sort of opinion you are going to find on Struggling Turds. They have a vested interest there to get you child into a program to boost their income flow. Here we don't make a single pence/farthing out of the deal.
I'll try to re register, it said I had to wait for a validation e mail that didn't turn up?? Anyone out there?
I have to say before I go any further, I have spoken privately with many struggling teens members and they aren't all "send them away" some of them really don't want that but do fear for their lives literally and for the lives of their children, it is a really really hard decision to make, not to mention a heartbreaking one
I personally don't want to send my kids away, beating them to within an inch of their lives is niot going to make them stop, I know because I've done it myself and they still continue - well you wanted honesty and you got it, I am always open & honest, that's why I'm here, I need some direction & help, I have lost all sense of direction, exhausted every avenue and just don't know how to help my boys, that is my sole purpose
As for having a drink problem, no I don't, i wish I did, maybe I could blot it all out with the booze!! My only problem with alcohol is the fact it has destroyed so many lives around me as I grew up and is still doing so to this day - It is I believe a genetic thing in the family, all of the boys in the family have drink problems, but not the girls, that is extended right across to cousins etc........
And thank you to the gargling Milk madman who pointed out my kids hate me, yes i am well aware of that fact thank you very much, what I want is to find out why they hate with such a vengence, they hate everyone!! it's nothing personal.
The reason I turned Aspen down, hmmmm....well anyone who writes an e mail saying "sure, put them on a plane tonight, we will start them on a program tomorrow morning" wihtout knowing what the situation is, doesn't get my time or money, how did they know if I was some psycho bitch who doesn't even have kids or not? How did they know if I just wanted a long hoiliday and needed someone to palm my perfectly normal child off onto to babysit? No way was I sending my boy to someone I didn't know I could trust, a facility I hadn't checked out, a country that I couldn't visit as & when I needed to, or more importantly when my son needed me to, do they think I'm mad???
Michael Muldoon is fully aware of my situation, he has been really supportive and a very good friend to me through some very difficult times, wihtout giving away his private life I trust him because he has been there, where my boys are now, yet he never disses me as a mother no matter what I do to try to stop my sons
I am more than aware that if my boys don't want to change, there is nothing I can do about it, but it doesn't make me want to give up any the less, i will fight for them for as long as I draw breath, because I CARE how they turn out, because I want them to have a good life, they aren't going to get a second shot at it are they?
I have just come back from my GP aghain! begged him to help, make a referal, after all these years of begging, he's now told me I've missed the boat because my 14 yr old is too old to see a mental health team (eh?) I asked if it was comon practice to let people with mental health problems wander round causing themselves and others harm without help, his reply was "How do you know he has a mental health problem?" FFS I don't! I can't get anyone to see him to assess the situation - so, there you have it, I have spent years and years trying to get a referal, now it has got to this stage, I am being told I should have got a referal at an earlier age *bang head sharply against a wall*
Am I really asking too much here? I'm not asking someone to reprogram my boys, I don't want to change them, I just want to change their behaviour - I'm just reaching out for help, that's all, I can't do this on my own anymore, I've run out of energy
btw yes the dad was an alcoholic, no he was never nasty & violent with it, just a hopeless alcoholic, however the chidren were 2 months, 16 months, 2 1/2 & 4 at the time of his death, they were very young, although I don't dismiss that children of any age aren't aware of what's going on, I do believe it affects them greatly no matter how old they are.
Those of you who think I'm a bad other because I have the odd drink (ike 3 or 4 times a year) et stuffed, that's normal drinking, butI do take on board what you say about not having it i the house, I will throw any I find away tonight, that is a promise to you & to myself, they will go round their mates houses and raid their parents drinks cupboards though and shoplift it because thats what they do, also to those of you who think I am trying to justify anything I do, i don't have to justify myself to you, let's get that clear from the start, those who think I'm a bad mother, okay, you are entiltled to your opinion, but I can sleep at night knowing I am not and only have their well - being at heart, let's face it, if I didn't they'd be at Aspen right now would they not?
Okay i think I've taken up enough bandwidth and hope I have covered every question with as much honesty as I can....I also promise you, i leave nothing out, if I think of anything else i will type it in, because I have one objective in life - to help my boys help themselves to a brighter future, lying, deceiving and covering up certain parts of our lives is not going to help anyone, I cannot ask you and expect you to help without giving you the whole picture.
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Just to Clarify, I think I have told Exhausted alot of what was said here. I also told her she might want to come to Fornits to see lots of stuff she would never see on ST. I explained to her that the majority of Fornits posters want the best for her sons- that they will do everything in their power to not see what happened to them happen to others. So, I think that I have said lots of things said here, just in a less emotional way. But the intentions are all the same.
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I'll try to re register, it said I had to wait for a validation e mail that didn't turn up?? Anyone out there?
There's no sense in having that around anymore with the new antispam system in place, so I turned it off. Forget the validation part; you ought to be able to just log in now.
Yes, the gargling milk madman is the technical administrator here.
Your kids can at least sit still for a few minutes, right? Get them on this board. Won't take long for them to find out who their real enemies are. You'd be surprised at what finding this out does for a young man's outlook.
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Out of curiousity, this question is for Exhausted, what convinced you to say no to Aspen?
Also could you please get an account? I would dearly love to discuss your situation in greater detail. Don't let the reception you have recieved so far turn you off to posting here on Fornits. At the very minimum I would hope you to be the sort of person who would appreciate honest opinions. Not the sort of opinion you are going to find on Struggling Turds. They have a vested interest there to get you child into a program to boost their income flow. Here we don't make a single pence/farthing out of the deal.
I'll try to re register, it said I had to wait for a validation e mail that didn't turn up?? Anyone out there?
you might want to retry that with a different name. or check your junk mail folder in case the validation is in there.
I have to say before I go any further, I have spoken privately with many struggling teens members and they aren't all "send them away" some of them really don't want that but do fear for their lives literally and for the lives of their children, it is a really really hard decision to make, not to mention a heartbreaking one
Yes they are afraid. And the ed-cons take advantage of that, making it worse, telling them their kids will be dead/insane/in jail if they don't go to program.
I personally don't want to send my kids away, beating them to within an inch of their lives is niot going to make them stop, I know because I've done it myself and they still continue - well you wanted honesty and you got it, I am always open & honest, that's why I'm here, I need some direction & help, I have lost all sense of direction, exhausted every avenue and just don't know how to help my boys, that is my sole purpose
As for having a drink problem, no I don't, i wish I did, maybe I could blot it all out with the booze!! My only problem with alcohol is the fact it has destroyed so many lives around me as I grew up and is still doing so to this day - It is I believe a genetic thing in the family, all of the boys in the family have drink problems, but not the girls, that is extended right across to cousins etc........
And thank you to the gargling Milk madman who pointed out my kids hate me, yes i am well aware of that fact thank you very much, what I want is to find out why they hate with such a vengence, they hate everyone!! it's nothing personal.
They seem to be very very angry for some reason. Only a licenced psychologist could really have a chance of finding out why. Your GP sounds like a true asshole of the greatest caliber.
The reason I turned Aspen down, hmmmm....well anyone who writes an e mail saying "sure, put them on a plane tonight, we will start them on a program tomorrow morning" wihtout knowing what the situation is, doesn't get my time or money, how did they know if I was some psycho bitch who doesn't even have kids or not?
They don't care. They would probably accept a blow up doll if you paid for it.
How did they know if I just wanted a long hoiliday and needed someone to palm my perfectly normal child off onto to babysit?
That's their favourite kind. They made up approx 10% of the population where i was. They can do anything they want to that kind. Their parent's don't care at all (yes there are messed up people out there). The others were ADHD / Depressed / anxiety / lazy etc. Maybe 30% were there for drugs and only 90% of those because their parents caught them smoking pot.
No way was I sending my boy to someone I didn't know I could trust, a facility I hadn't checked out, a country that I couldn't visit as & when I needed to, or more importantly when my son needed me to, do they think I'm mad???
No. They think you're desperate, at "wit's end" etc. They know with enough "dead-insane-injail" talk they can eventually make scared enough to take the "steps you need to help your son/daughter". Ka-ching! They don't care if you can't afford it. The loan company always pays them and you would be paying those off for the next century or so.
Michael Muldoon is fully aware of my situation, he has been really supportive and a very good friend to me through some very difficult times, wihtout giving away his private life I trust him because he has been there, where my boys are now, yet he never disses me as a mother no matter what I do to try to stop my sons
I am more than aware that if my boys don't want to change, there is nothing I can do about it, but it doesn't make me want to give up any the less, i will fight for them for as long as I draw breath, because I CARE how they turn out, because I want them to have a good life, they aren't going to get a second shot at it are they?
I have just come back from my GP aghain! begged him to help, make a referal, after all these years of begging, he's now told me I've missed the boat because my 14 yr old is too old to see a mental health team (eh?) I asked if it was comon practice to let people with mental health problems wander round causing themselves and others harm without help, his reply was "How do you know he has a mental health problem?" FFS I don't! I can't get anyone to see him to assess the situation - so, there you have it, I have spent years and years trying to get a referal, now it has got to this stage, I am being told I should have got a referal at an earlier age *bang head sharply against a wall*
Your GP is truly an asshole of the highest caliber. Here's what you do: Don't take no for an answer. Be as much of a pest as he is an asshole. Eventually he'll comply simply to be rid of you. Drag your kid in. He'll catch on after that.
Am I really asking too much here? I'm not asking someone to reprogram my boys, I don't want to change them, I just want to change their behaviour - I'm just reaching out for help, that's all, I can't do this on my own anymore, I've run out of energy
btw yes the dad was an alcoholic, no he was never nasty & violent with it, just a hopeless alcoholic, however the chidren were 2 months, 16 months, 2 1/2 & 4 at the time of his death, they were very young, although I don't dismiss that children of any age aren't aware of what's going on, I do believe it affects them greatly no matter how old they are.
It's normal to want to help your kids and i can understand your frustration. I was not quite as bad as your kid but i did drive my parents relatively mad (with things so mild you wouldn't believe: differences in religion, sexuality, and politics). To quote my mom "you were dressing in black, you were hanging out with all those goth kids, you were out of control !" Oz knows what i'm talking about. To you're credit: your kids, in my family, would have been sent away long long ago.
Those of you who think I'm a bad other because I have the odd drink (ike 3 or 4 times a year) et stuffed, that's normal drinking, butI do take on board what you say about not having it i the house, I will throw any I find away tonight, that is a promise to you & to myself, they will go round their mates houses and raid their parents drinks cupboards though and shoplift it because thats what they do, also to those of you who think I am trying to justify anything I do, i don't have to justify myself to you, let's get that clear from the start, those who think I'm a bad mother, okay, you are entiltled to your opinion, but I can sleep at night knowing I am not and only have their well - being at heart, let's face it, if I didn't they'd be at Aspen right now would they not?
None of us... well maybe milk since he's the resident asshole, are judging you. I'm not a parent (that i know of at least), don't know if TSW is, Zen is, Deborah is, don't think OZ is. Milk... for some reason i doubt it.
I don't think you have a drinking problem, i just was wondering why your kids were so irate with you and that's a common cause. It would also make sense since alcoholism is genetic. Since you've explained your husband was the one with the drinking problem it makes sense now.
Okay i think I've taken up enough bandwidth and hope I have covered every question with as much honesty as I can....I also promise you, i leave nothing out, if I think of anything else i will type it in, because I have one objective in life - to help my boys help themselves to a brighter future, lying, deceiving and covering up certain parts of our lives is not going to help anyone, I cannot ask you and expect you to help without giving you the whole picture.
Well thanks. Have you looked at the motorbike program posted earlier? That might be something your kid would enjoy.
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Exhausted,
I have read some of your postings on the ST forum.
I believe your 19 year old son has been in jail. Do you think he may be influcing your younger sons' out-of-control behaviors?
Do you think if you could keep him away from your home for an extended time---that perhaps you could work better with these younger boys?
Welcome to fornits, and you do not have to be a non-drinker or a non-smoker to deserve respect and peace in your own home, as a mom.
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I have refrained from commenting so far because i don't have kid so havent the faintest clue how i would handle them in your shoes. I can understand why you would be reluctant to kick any of your kids out but you should have the right to a violence free home. Kudos to you for not sending them to any American BM school. It is a for profit industry which takes advantage of human misery.
Perhaps a 1/2 way measure. What if you were to ask the oldest to leave but have a trusted family friend or relative to check on him regularly while he gets on his feet. At 19 he may find that once he is set up, he enjoys the independence and is able to rebuild things with you on a more adult level. A lot of young people find the relationship improves with their parents once they are out of home because it becomes more adult and less parent and child. Is there some kind of 1/2 way house for young men like your oldest? Somewhere that helps young people with life skills like Job hunting etc and perhaps provides some kind of anger management counselling. This may be a good compromise. Good luck
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I tried logging in but it seems Fornits won't have me :cry:
Still nvm about that......
I have thrown the 19 yr old out a couple of times, it doesn't make any differnece to the way my younger two behave, and as quite righty has been pointed out he has served 2 prison sentences, so of course he wasn't around in a long while and that made no difference - he is still my son though and my weakness with him is that he has suffered ADHD from a tiny child, but it has only just been recognised in this country, so he didn't get any help, he has adut ADHD to this day, the long & short of it is that through getting no help, he has never quite grasped the real world, as in he thinks the world owes him a favour, everything should be hnded to him on a plate, no one should question his behaviour and that no one can make him do anythign, we had that from a young age, 'they can't make me go to school, they can't make me go to court, they can't make me go to prison, they can't make me stay in prison' and so he goes on, he is still very much a little boy but sometimes I just want him back in jail because that way I know he isn't drinking, taking drugs or out a night getting into fights, he is hell bent on putting himself back there anyway.....I came in tongiht with food shopping & asked for some help getting it in from the car - he flipped, got in my face shouting at me "who do you think you are comig in here with that attitude" um, it's my house, I ony asked for help to carry in the food he is going to eat! he is of the opinion that I had kids so therefore I should forever be their slaves and they shouldn't have to do anything for themselves, he also has real problems in accepting the consequences for his actions, it has never been his fault when he gets arrested, it is the fault of whoever grassed him up, whoever caled the police & usually the police's fault for catching him, he just simply does not comprehend it is his fault for committing the crime!
he lived in a halfway house for a year but was kicked out when he was 1st sent to jail, he hasn't taken any responsibiity since, I think he made it for 3 weeks before he was serving his second term, the one thing that really brings my heckles up is that he cannot see that he only gets into trouble when he drinks! the rest of the time he's actually a nice lad. (He had been drinking tonight)
The bike thing sounds really good, however he wouldn't go and Ipswich is hundreds of miles from here, I'm not sure wether he would get accomodation or not, but he wouldn't go anyway and leave his little crew behind, he has zero confidence. he has been through years of life skills and help for colleges and jobs, but he just turns his nose up at it all, preffering to wander the streets intimidating people, my main fear for him is that one day he'll intimidate the wrong person and they'll kill him stone dead.
I suppose if I'm totally honest with you all - my biggest fear in life is that the younger two will turn out just like him, the GP pointed out to me that they are well on that road now (hey he recognised that but still wouldn't refer!) i did not bring my babies into this world to spend their lives rotting anway in prison, I don't want that for them, but more than this, I don't want them to want that for themselves
We, as a family have been let down badly by social services and the various other agencies I've contacted and now they are starting to point the finger at me, although I have spent many years trying to get help, my GP told me tongiht it's my fault because they have no rules and no boundaries, yes they do! they just refuse to adhere to any of them!
I wish i knew why they are so angry, if I did I would do everything I could to help them all i can do right now is to tell them I am dissapointed with their behaviour, I don't like what they are doing, but still tell them every day I love them, wish them a good day at school and kiss them goodnight, and I always make a big point of telling them how proud I am of them when they have done something good, even if its a thank you for sitting at the meal table without fighting or praising them for the odd times they do stay in on a grounding - one thing i don't get though is why my daughter is totaly the opposite, she's so focused and knows exactly what she wants form life, runs 2 jobs, goes to college and wants to join the police force, i have never had a days trouble from her and yet she has been brought up in exacty the same way
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Oh forgot to say
If I can get my boys to sit down at this forum, is that okay? I'm sure it would help them big time if they knew someone was on their side and also be able to talk to others who have been where they once were.
you'd have to excuse the 13 yr old though, he is a severe dyslexic who has a 10 seconds or less concentration span, he may not understand what you are trying to put across to him even if I read it to him........this is a big part of his lack of self esteem, he is realy clever, but feels everyoe hates him because he's thick, his words not mine, i'd like a pound for everytime I've told him you don't have to be able to read and write to be clever, he's a smart cookie, he just doesn't act very smart in his life choices
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Just try reregistering under a new name. Should work. once you have done the regster thing you can log in right away you dont get sent an email or any of that crap. :D
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he can't joint he army....I've also gone down that route, they have to be 4 months clear of any crimes, sentences or conditions, he hasn't managed to go 4 days without getting into trouble, he is on tag right now with a bail order, and ASBO and out of prison on licence, these are all seperate things and won't be considered spent for a long time, as he is still causing grief even though he is on these various conditions, I can't see him going anywhere but jail again, but you're right, he has to grow up now and learn what living in the real world is about
ona lighter note, here's something to make you all laugh, he told me the toher day that i was making him go back to prison because i wouldn't give him money, so therefore I was forcing him to go steal :roll:
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Just try reregistering under a new name. Should work. once you have done the regster thing you can log in right away you dont get sent an email or any of that crap. :D
I did try, it said there was a registered user already using that e mail address LOL
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I tried logging in but it seems Fornits won't have me :cry:
Still nvm about that......
I have thrown the 19 yr old out a couple of times, it doesn't make any differnece to the way my younger two behave, and as quite righty has been pointed out he has served 2 prison sentences, so of course he wasn't around in a long while and that made no difference - he is still my son though and my weakness with him is that he has suffered ADHD from a tiny child, but it has only just been recognised in this country, so he didn't get any help, he has adut ADHD to this day, the long & short of it is that through getting no help, he has never quite grasped the real world, as in he thinks the world owes him a favour, everything should be hnded to him on a plate, no one should question his behaviour and that no one can make him do anythign, we had that from a young age, 'they can't make me go to school, they can't make me go to court, they can't make me go to prison, they can't make me stay in prison' and so he goes on, he is still very much a little boy but sometimes I just want him back in jail because that way I know he isn't drinking, taking drugs or out a night getting into fights, he is hell bent on putting himself back there anyway.....I came in tongiht with food shopping & asked for some help getting it in from the car - he flipped, got in my face shouting at me "who do you think you are comig in here with that attitude" um, it's my house, I ony asked for help to carry in the food he is going to eat! he is of the opinion that I had kids so therefore I should forever be their slaves and they shouldn't have to do anything for themselves, he also has real problems in accepting the consequences for his actions, it has never been his fault when he gets arrested, it is the fault of whoever grassed him up, whoever caled the police & usually the police's fault for catching him, he just simply does not comprehend it is his fault for committing the crime!
he lived in a halfway house for a year but was kicked out when he was 1st sent to jail, he hasn't taken any responsibiity since, I think he made it for 3 weeks before he was serving his second term, the one thing that really brings my heckles up is that he cannot see that he only gets into trouble when he drinks! the rest of the time he's actually a nice lad. (He had been drinking tonight)
The bike thing sounds really good, however he wouldn't go and Ipswich is hundreds of miles from here, I'm not sure wether he would get accomodation or not, but he wouldn't go anyway and leave his little crew behind, he has zero confidence. he has been through years of life skills and help for colleges and jobs, but he just turns his nose up at it all, preffering to wander the streets intimidating people, my main fear for him is that one day he'll intimidate the wrong person and they'll kill him stone dead.
I suppose if I'm totally honest with you all - my biggest fear in life is that the younger two will turn out just like him, the GP pointed out to me that they are well on that road now (hey he recognised that but still wouldn't refer!) i did not bring my babies into this world to spend their lives rotting anway in prison, I don't want that for them, but more than this, I don't want them to want that for themselves
We, as a family have been let down badly by social services and the various other agencies I've contacted and now they are starting to point the finger at me, although I have spent many years trying to get help, my GP told me tongiht it's my fault because they have no rules and no boundaries, yes they do! they just refuse to adhere to any of them!
I wish i knew why they are so angry, if I did I would do everything I could to help them all i can do right now is to tell them I am dissapointed with their behaviour, I don't like what they are doing, but still tell them every day I love them, wish them a good day at school and kiss them goodnight, and I always make a big point of telling them how proud I am of them when they have done something good, even if its a thank you for sitting at the meal table without fighting or praising them for the odd times they do stay in on a grounding - one thing i don't get though is why my daughter is totaly the opposite, she's so focused and knows exactly what she wants form life, runs 2 jobs, goes to college and wants to join the police force, i have never had a days trouble from her and yet she has been brought up in exacty the same way
It would be one thing if your 19 year old was just a drunk; however he seem to be more than that. From what you are saying, he seems to be an abusive "angry drunk". If i were a psychologist i would say: he doesn't have enough confidence without it, and only feels powerful when uninhibited. Inside, he's confident, but too afraid to show it without the booze. He probably thinks very little of himself.
You could try, before throwing him out, as a last resort:
I know you already have, but try it once more, at an irregular time when he's not expecting it:
Telling him that you are proud of him. Tell him, with all his faults, you love him for who he is, and you're glad he's your son. Tell him you know he can do anything he puts his mind to. The point is to try and make him feel like he is a good person. If he changes his attitude after that, offer him the motorbike thing. Explain to him how he can make a career out of it.
Tell him that when he is sober obviously.
If that fails. Throw him out. It seems as if he is a danger to you when he drinks, and if he is going to change is must be on his own. On the other hand he may never change, and that is his right. You must understand that, at this point, it is out of your hands. What he does is not your fault as a parent. My advice is to find some place for him to stay and kick him out of the house (not onto the streets).
I can't imagine, him being in such a state would be a good influence to your younger sons. Younger brothers usually look up to their older brothers. In my opinion, as is all of this, if you want to see your 14 year old succeed he is going to need to see his brother either fuck up badly (so he doesn't want it to happen to him), or succeed(provide a positive example). My guess is he sees his brother as some sort of hollywood roguish rebel character.
I dated this alcoholic girl at one point. You can't make them change. Your son has to realize his problem himself. If he had decent friends I would suggest getting them all together when he is sober and saying something to the affect of "we think you have a drinking problem, there's nothing to be ashamed of, if you like we can get you some help". If it's just coming from you I doubt it would do any good. He has got to come to the conclusion himself. Maybe, if you could convince him to go to that motorbike thing, he might find better friends there who might have the balls to spot the problem and tell him about it.
I have no idea why your sons went wacky and your daughter is fine. My guess is genetics.
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Oh forgot to say
If I can get my boys to sit down at this forum, is that okay? I'm sure it would help them big time if they knew someone was on their side and also be able to talk to others who have been where they once were.
you'd have to excuse the 13 yr old though, he is a severe dyslexic who has a 10 seconds or less concentration span, he may not understand what you are trying to put across to him even if I read it to him........this is a big part of his lack of self esteem, he is realy clever, but feels everyoe hates him because he's thick, his words not mine, i'd like a pound for everytime I've told him you don't have to be able to read and write to be clever, he's a smart cookie, he just doesn't act very smart in his life choices
Sounds like it might be ADHD if it runs in the family. I'm ADHD. The thing is with ADHD people is that their brains operate too quickly. They're too smart. The world is just not interesting enough for them. Can he pay attention to video games? My guess is probably, since they are entertaining enough to keep his attention. A lot of people with ADHD actually have extremely high IQs.
Unfortunately, medication is really the only thing that can help. Your GP should be referring your kids. Keep bothering the asshole. Don't let up until you get what you want, and your kids need, badly.
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I found that when working with short attention span kids that if you try to force them to pay attention they are going to resist you all the harder.
GAAH. How long did it take you to figure that one out. It's like forcing a left handed kid to write with his right hand. Willpower alone won't cut it. Tough love and all that crap only frustrates kids and makes them think they are stupid, failures, or not strong enough. It used to make me so fucking irate to see the staff treat the ADHD kids like they were acting out on purpose, or not paying attention, or ignoring them, or whatever.
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I dunno I stopped paying attention to your posts sometime last week.
I'm sorry if i offended you. Seriously. I didn't mean it in a wrong way. Look. When you first started working at program you probably didn't know what you know now. Even then. You should not be qualified, and I should not be qualified to be a counselor at any program. If you were qualified, you wouldn't have to learn what we were talking about through experience with the kids. They shouldn't be training tools. I realize you, as well as many other staff in program had good intentions but without the proper psychological education, you get fallout. I am not criticizing you personally. At the program I was in, a good few counselors didn't even had HS diplomas, and they would reak havoc on kids' psyches. You probably know what I mean anyway. Just don't take it personally. I actually hold you in high regard considering you were able to realize what you were doing as staff, stop, and have the courage to be honest about it, not only to yourself but also others.
PS: yes i realize i'm long winded. It's because I type really fast.
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Thank your higher power I voted for Kerry. I could be a lot worse.
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Well i did try to write in Nader but the stupid electronic voting thingy wouldn't let me do it without the VP's first and last name (hell if i knew that). I'd vote anarchist but they aren't running.
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Me again, this time logging in succesfully as Exhausted, how embarrassing, I'm an IT tutor :oops:
Okkay everything I've read so far makes sense, everything, all of it
I have been down the route of giving my 19 yr old every opportunity to clean up his act , so have many other people, he simply doesn't want to know, so it's time for him to go, he is an abusive drunk, as I've banned him from stepping foot in the house wiht a drink inside him, he's now started sneaking it in, like I can't smell it on his breath? he got really abusive last night on vodka (again) I simply cannot carry him financially, emmotionally and physically any more, he has to go it alone and as has been said, decide on his won path, although he sopends alot of time telling me I'm not anormal mother if I ask him to pick up the rubbish he strews all over the house or bring his laundry down etc, normal mothers slave after their kids don;t you know?
I have just been to the mental health team today to get the results of my 13 yr olds tests, sadly he has the learning ability of a 6 year old, his concentration span is about 7 seconds and he has no life or comnmunication skills, so I'm waiting to find out where we go from here with this......he was diagnosed with ADHD on Jan 13th this year, was put on Concerta about 4 months later and the doseage has just been upped......my son is told daily that he is not thick, by me & his siblings, in fact he is really clevber, the block just hurtles in when putting what's in his brain down on paper, our Prime Minister was a dyslexic! (John Major - muppet)
While I was getting the results, the 14 yr old jumped through the window of the car and ran away again, so i have no idea where he is at this moment, the 13 yr old soon followed suit after we returned home ... it really scares me not knowing what they are doing and who they are with, wether they are committing some crime or smoking drugs whatever.
I assure you, no matter what the day brings, and believe me it's like this every day - I tell all 4 of my children every single night that I love them, I may not like what they do, but I love them and kiss them goodnight, that's if they decide to come in that night of course.
I do praise the 19 yr old, I always try to find something about them every day that has been good, this is often difficult because sometimes I have to look very hard for something, but I'll usually find something even if it's a small thing like taking their shoes off at the door or hanging their coat up - everyone needs to be told their not all bad all the time, even me....even when I want to throttle them, I'll say please and thankyou to them, why should they speak to me with respect if I can't do the same? I find this difficult though when I've just been called a psycho whore, I have to bite my lip and say "I don't appreciate being spoken to like that, now would you apologise to me for being so hurtful and disrespectful PLEASE" when they do I thank them, in reality I want to slap them straight in the mouth, but that's not how I deal with things.
Oh well same shit, different day, tomorrow will bring more of the same no doubt - but I will survive it as I have done so far, until I eventually crack under the strain - still, when it's me who's been put into a mental facility at least I'l get some peace & quiet!
Seriously - my friend who also has a child with ADHD has just sufggested that as I can't get any help from my GP that i should take the 14 yr old to the ER and insist that I've had to go there because I have nowehere left to turn and see if they can get a psychriatic assessment, take a short cut as it were, I may just do that when I next see him, something has to give.
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Now I'm curious what these kids physically look like.
Because I'm starting to have a suspicion... (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorder)
If that suspicion is correct, there's organic brain damage and there isn't much you can do.
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Milk. I think we've already established that she probably isn't a drunk. The lady has come here for help. Either help, or stop being an asshole.
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We're not talking about anything that's happening now, we're talking about things two decades to a decade and a half ago.
I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm being perfectly serious. The symptoms she's describing are honestly starting to match up with FAS/FAE. Or maybe lead poisoning. The more she talks about it the more it sounds like the younger kids can't control their behavior.
She needs to get a real, in-depth evaluation on her kids from a real doctor, and the fact that her GP is giving her shit about it is terrible.
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Now I'm curious what these kids physically look like.
Because I'm starting to have a suspicion... (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_spectrum_disorder)
If that suspicion is correct, there's organic brain damage and there isn't much you can do.
Now you're talking my language!
I didn't drink then either, I have been down the FAS route when I heard about it a couple of weeks ago, I wasn't quite sure what it really meant, it was explained to me and then I felt a prat lol! I didn't know kids have a physical appearance cojnected with this as the person who mentioned it is very experienced in these matters and knows my boys
However.....I have always (right from when they were babies had a sneaking suspicion something was wrong, mainly the 14 yr old concerned me greatly, didn't sit up, roll over, take any notice of lights and twinkly things, you know the sort of stuff, my mum asked me if he had floppy infant syndrome way back then....I think she's a fruitcase so ignored her, BUT, if anyone knows anythihng about the effect of Diazepam on the fetus and what happens later on in life, I'd really like to hear from you! I saw a television program many years ago about a girl whose mother had taken it during the pregnancy and her daughter was almost vegetated by her early 20's - I have always been convinced it does some damage to the brain in some way, in fact i brought this very thing up with my doctor last night, but he dismisses ADHD as being an actual condition so he wasn't having any of it, I am convinced this may be the problem, I would never have taken it if I'd known it could cause any affect, funny because I didn't smoke, drink, even take a painkiller during pregnancy & yet I trusted the GP to continue prescribing Diazepam
Does anyone know of any research about this? Or have anything that could confirm my suspicions (I can't find anything on the net)
JSYK I wasn't taking Diazepam when pregnant with the 19 yr old or the 17 yr old
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Three Springs - the police have told me to stop claling them every time the boys run away as they are not my babysitters and to get off my arse and look for them myself, I have been greeted like this on many occassions so have stopped caling them, when they call me to ask if I will act as an appropriate adult after they arrest them, I tell them to get stuffed, we do not have the greatest relationship
:o My boys are downstairs paying a game and laughing :o :o :o
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All right. First the good news. You haven't really done anything wrong.
I haven't a clue what's really going on inside their heads. I'm in another country on the Internet. We all are. At this point you're not going to get your answer here (and you'd never get a real answer on ST, ever). The problem doesn't lie in behavioral anything, and the concepts of punishing them, discipline, etc, just won't work. You're trying to affect circuitry that isn't quite right in their heads. If there's any real solution at all it's going to lie in real psychiatry.
Find someone who is willing to conduct an MRI on the kids, do a full evaluation on their brains, find out what's really going on. If your GP doesn't want to refer you, and he's the one who prescribed diezapam, threaten to report him for conflict of interest. There's something wrong, medically wrong, here. You might even have a legal case. I don't know- I'm not a doctor or a lawyer, and no one else on this forum is, and (need I say it again?) definitely no one on ST is.
If your kids are playing a game together, laughing, etc, it means that they're not *that* messed up- at least not while they're sober.
Keep them away from the fucking alcohol. Don't store it in your house. If they're going to other kids' houses and trying to steal it from there, tell their parents what's going on. They're killing themselves on that shit.
Above all be nice to them. Remember, they're not really responsible for what they're doing (brain damage is just like that). You want them to be sleeping at your house. See them downstairs having fun together? That's where you want them to be, safe, not in the custody of sadists, and away from the booze.
Have you attempted to get them on this forum yet?
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Exhausted, do you work?
How do you support all of these children?
If you have a job, who supervises these kids while you are at your job?
If you don't work--are you surviving on some "government program?" If so, isn't there some type of services available to help you out with these kids?
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This isn't by chance the same fucking retard GP? Jee Zus. He doesn't think ADHD is a condition. What a fucking moron. And he gives you fucking VALIUM while you're pregnant.
Okey dokey. Diazepam = Valium. More common term to search with. Bad news. It apparantly can cause birth defects. including:
Valium (diazepam), when taken late in pregnancy, can cause depression, irritability, exaggerated reflexes, shaking, and limpness (called Floppy baby syndrome) in the newborn.
source (http://http://www.lawinfo.com/leadcounsel-lawyers/new-york-birth-defects-1/birth-defects.html)
It's unfortunate you can't sue the asshole for anything of worth in your country. Boy. If i were you, i'd... you don't want to know.
i'll look for more in a bit.
yup. it's pretty confirmed:
fact sheet (http://http://psyweb.com/Drughtm/jsp/valium.jsp)
article on study (http://http://bipolar.about.com/cs/pregnurse/a/0104_antidefect.htm)
specific warning (http://http://www.whatmeds.com/meds/diazepam.html)
there's loads more. just google:
Valium "birth defects"
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Agreed on the MRI, that's another thing I have wanted done for a very long time, I do believe however I can ony get that done through a private doctor, and guess what? I have to have a referal from my GP for it *thud* My neighbour has just had one done for her 20 yr old son, there was some pretty scary shit going on with brain discharges or something, i didn't fully understand it (guess i had to be there)
I will follow that up & see what I can do about it
Yes I do work, I always have, I gave up my office job to become self employed so that I can fit work in around the kids, well two of them are kids, the 17 yr old works herself and goes to college and the 19 yr old isn't a kid, i work from home mainly and also teach IT to beginners.
And thank you for the links to Valium and pregnancy - wel that pretty much confirms my fears, not that the GP will listen but I will print out as much as I can to give to him in the hope he doesn't just bin it and actually takes me seriously, I always knew there wasn't something quite right about Valium and pregnancy, dammit why did I take it?
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Exhausted, didn't you post previously that your daugher has moved out of your home? Where is she living? Did the stress of all these abusive behaviors from her brothers cause her to move out?
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Exercise and vitamins is all these kids need.
You are glib.
You don't know the history of psychiatry, but I do.
(http://
[url=http://www.film-erlebnis.com/images/cruise_tom.jpg]www.film-erlebnis.com/images/cruise_tom.jpg[/url])
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A word of caution to Exhausted. I am at least glad to see you seeking out answers for your questions. However, becareful to not end up publishing the life stories of your children on fornits.
We call that doing a "Leslie" on your kids.
So far you have done well to stick with the bare essential details. Really the rest of this is up to competent medical professionals. I would further encourage you to consider seeking out further suggestions and support via the PM function.
Should you want to talk with people in a real time environment I am sure some here would not mind chatting with you on either MSN, Yahoo, AIM, or whatever it is that they use.
Please whatever you do don't stop posting. However, balance your need to post with the respect for the privacy of your children.
Thank You.
Do you feel I've gone too far?
The reason I post these things is because I don't want to ask for help on any forum without giving the full details, but I will take on board what you say about keeping it between me & the psychologist, if I ever get to see one!
The 12 year old sees one who is involved in his Ritolin intake, weighing him, blood pressure etc, but we don't get any therapy at all, which is a little surprising
Anyway none of us need to worry anymore, we have all been so blind, our problems are solved, we are glib, all we need as humans are vitamins and exercise 8)
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Okay point taken
Mine pick their nose in private nowadays as it's embarassing to be caught at their age :lol:
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I love how your "supportive" friends on ST ridicule you for trying to help your kids by looking elsewhere for information. They're great people.
BTW, did you know that "WillieNelson" is actually "KarenInDallas" (and other names) on this board? Do a search here for "Karen" and you'll see what an absolutly sick, nasty individual she is.
As bad as Karen is, "Anne from Minnesota" might be worse. Here she's called "Ottawa5" and she is truly, deeply demented despite what she tries to convey on ST. Look her up here so you can see who you're dealing with.
Those two women need a program for narcissistic control freaks and know-it-alls, preferably one that involves dog cages and a lot of humiliation!
I wouldn't take advice from either one of these deeply disturbed women...
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There's a lot of Fornits vs. ST stuff going back and forth, but this isn't just some ordinary forum pissing contest. Your kids' futures are at stake. You send them to America for "emotional growth" and they might not have a future, or at least not any sort of future you'd want. For example, a lot of the group "therapy" done in those places (Aspen most definitely included) involves kids screaming at each other about all the bad things they've done. They hold no distinction for siblings, either. Visualize it for a while. This isn't help.
Anyone referred to you by Lon Woodbury is absolutely guaranteed to attempt to manipulate you into sending your kids away. This is how ed-cons make their money, after all, through referrals to hellholes. (A real medical consultant, as it is known in the medical field, has NOTHING to do with an "educational consultant"- not even close!). The words "conflict of interest" come up again. Don't take my word for it, talk to him a while. See where the conversation inevitably goes. (Just don't agree to anything!)
I say again: Get your kids on this forum and involved in the conversation. Read it out loud to them if you have to! Do they know that you're so desperate you're asking everyone and anyone on the Internet?
Good luck on finding that psychologist. I mean that. Private psychologists still do have phone numbers. Call one (or several!) of them up and ask the psychologist or the office staff what the best way to get a referral is. It's quite likely that they know tricks that no one here does.
Hell, you've got the whole phone book. I don't know if it costs anything to make a local call in the UK but whatever it is, it's worth it. It's full of psychologists and medical practicioners. There might even be professionals who can help navigate you through the NHS! (It wouldn't surprise me, given the size of the bureaucracy.) Somewhere in that phone book there is someone who knows what the fuck he's doing. Find him.
And for fuck's sake give your kids a reason to come home tonight.
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Exhausted, I am DR. Shithead, Dean Of Admissions at Life By The Bay. I think we have the resources to help your youngsters. If you enroll one or more of your youngsters at our highly reputable facilty, we are prepared to give you your first two months of service at a 25% discount. Hurry, we can only extend this offer through 12/31/06.
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:-? Are you for real? I'm not taking your word for it just cos you offer a 25% discount, not even iof you offer it for free - not that I've taken what you say seriously, you're just trying to dig at me, you'l have to try harder, I've met & beaten bigger & better than you all my life
MGDP - Lon can refer me to someone in this country if he knows of anyone, there's no harm in that, I would obviously be there and no-one will manipulate me into sending my boys away, no program is going to help a child who has a disorder, disorders simply cannot be unlearnt - I had this conversation with our village cop tonight, he was going on about the boys learning to behave, some people just don't get it, they can't learn not to be ADHD anymore than another person can learn not to be blind......the fact I'm not that easily manipulated also helps
I'm going to say this one more time, this time I want you to read and digest - I AM NOT SENDING MY BOYS AWAY, NOT IN THIS COUNTRY, NOT IN ANY COUNTRY!!!
Now I've cleared that up, understand one thing, my boys not coming in at night is nothing to do with the way they are treated at home, they have a very good life here, it is due to the fact that they want their own way, they are behaving like brats, there are rules in this house such as going to bed at a reasonable time, getting up and going to school, NOT smoking in the house, not drinking in the house, not swearing at and attacking me physically & emmotionally, nothing abnormal, the same as any other household rules, my boys want to disregard these rules, therefore they stay out in order to do so, if you are suggesting I let them do all of the things just to keep them indoors and keep them happy, then you are seriously out of line.
I am not interested in wether you think Lon Woodbury is a psycho kiddy killer or wether you think Struggling Teens posters are the devil himself, I am there for support and I get it, I am here to find out what runs through the minds of teens who have or are still struggling, so i can get an insight as to how I can help my boys by gaining a better understanding of them, their feelings and their thoughts
The parents of teens who go through a rough time are victims as well, it is hard on us and we often don't cope very well, if the main parent can't get support and help, what good is she to the family she is supposed to be helping? Give me a break will you? I am trying so hard to work all of this out to help my kids work it out, it would be far easier for me to walk away and lead a stress free happy life believe me, but I choose not to, because I want to fight for them .... jees as if I don't get enough crap from the people who are meant to help in real life without getting it from those who you would have thought would understand the situation a little better.
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I would not stand for this either, but I have an easier job, because I only have two children. Houserules are houserules. If people dont agree they can discuss them not break them.
It seems to me that you need reinforcements. Don't you have family that can cover for you?
I think you need to take the children on one for one. Solve one of the problems first - not all problems at the same time.
Could you not arrange for relatives to come and live in your house with the rest of the children and then take the worst out in the local wilderness first?
They have you outnumbered and I think that you need to isolate them one for one at a place where you can talk to them face to face without disturbance. (No phones, no TV). Perhaps a tent somewhere remote. Get some friends to drive you there and check in on you and the child onces a day.
In my country it is not a shame to ask for help within the family.
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No family, no support Covergaard, that's why I'm struggling so much
I'd love to be able to do what you sugggest as on the rare occasion I do have either of my boys to myself, we get on really well and have a good time, and you are so right, they have me outnumbered, they're rude and nasty, spiteful and abusive towards me because they have each other for back up, knowing I have no one to turn to
it has taken me 2 hours to stop both my boys being abusive towards me for saying it was time to get to bed, I have been called everything under the sun and as always accused of moaning at them for simply saying it was time for bed, ffs
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Well you told the cop that they have ADHD and so aren't responsible for their behavior, yet you expect them to be responsible at home? I'm not getting this. Do you really understand what brain disorders are? I suspect that they literally cannot comprehend why they should listen to you.
And not only are they going to do something like this the next time you give them a reasonable request, they're going to do it the time after that, and the time after that! Forget the concepts of "fault" and "blame" for a bit. Step outside yourself for a bit and watch for patterns. You say something, your kids react a certain way. They get their hands on alcohol, they behave a certain way.
If there is a way around this problem, it's not going to come about by repeatedly bashing your heads into each other. It's just not.
Take a tape recorder next time you think something like this might happen, transcribe the exact words used, and let's find out exactly where everything goes to hell.
When did you tell them it was time to sleep...?
And the reason I keep insisting that you encourage them to be at your house at night is because they can easily get themselves killed.
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I think she means that the cop does not understand or believe in ADHD and was trying to explain to him that their behaviors would not stop just by telling him if they had ADHD, Hence, the reason she wants a professional medical assessment.
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Your absolutely right but she has not gotten one for the 14- year old and you can't treat ADHD or whatever unless it is diagnosed. I believe she was venting frustration at the cop because she feels there is a chance their behavior would improve with the proper diagnosis. She got an asessment for the 13-year old but the GP refuses to acknowledge ADHD or anything. I think that assessment goes out the window. But I agree fully that having a mental illness does not give you an excuse to be an asshole or worse.Just think that any illness should be treated to the best of ability.
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Exhausted, if you decide to send any of your children into placement, please use an escort service. The decision to send a child away is tough enough without taking them yourself.
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Lets see now ... if memory is right ...
British single mom with four kids, one girl OK, one boy clearly a chronic problem for her and to himself (it would seem) who won't even stay thrown out of the house, one 14 y.o. boy who seems bent on copying the older brother, one somewhat younger (12 or 13, depending) boy showing clear tendecies toward brothers' decisions. In all, as she views it, evident non-success with 3 of 4.
Also, no help from authorities, social services, police etc, whose best advice is don't bother us. Family doctor says 14 y.o. should have seen a shrink years ago, but has for years refused to refer him.
Toss in alleged total absence of private doctors - medical or psychiatric, no local programs to address issues (not talking send 'em away programs either). Suggestion made elsewhere to move was agreed almost immediately with viewing of potential new home (farm?) imminent [talk about moving quickly!!!]. So I guess money is there to move, but not to pay a private doc - when she got the energy to find one. Or was it the private doc couldn't make proper referrals.
So, now she wants help - a magic solution to overcome years of socially troubling behavior by her kids. However, that solution apparently can't involve them living apart from her.
1 of 4 is not a great track record, and there is no magic bullet to turn it around -- just as there is no magic program. Conclusion has to be she's looking for an ear and sympathy, but won't let go. I doubt she really could let one of her kids go to any residential program - no matter how wonderful -- or even a "regular" boarding school.
At a minimum, she needs the therapy, not the kids, though given their suffering including them in therapeutic services should help them and is the only hope for anything like "family".
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Exhausted, would you consider a move to Amish Country? We have plenty of farms.
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Exhausted, I am Susan Scheff, founder of Pure. I want to let you know that I take every possible recourse to ensure all programs I refer too are safe and appropiate. I take my job very seriously, I was once a child myself. I have a daughter also. There is no way I could send a child somewhere knowing it is not safe or appropiate. So, If you come to the ever so painful conclusion that one or more of your children need treatment away from your home, I want you to choose PURE to help you in the decision making process.I know you have pure intentions for your children. And I know there is no better place to go than PURE to get PURE treatment.
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Exhausted, would you consider a move to Amish Country? We have plenty of farms.
Well at least you know they would be well treated. This isn't a bad idea actually if you can afford it. It would be a big decision though, and an international move. At least you know the kids in the neighborhood won't be the source of bad influence.
btw: What the heck is an Amish mom doing posting on fornits anyway? I thought the Amish didn't have computers. Or maybe i'm confusing you guys with the Quakers. No offense meant. I actually respect the both of your groups far more than many other forms of organized religion.
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You're so disciplined Gookie.
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:-? Are you for real?
Are you?
He's obviously a troll. His program name is an amalgam of various geography and touchy-feely (or, orwellian... you read much? You ARE in the UK...) and nobody would call themself Dr. SHITHEAD.
No offence but if you're duped that easily... :(
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they can't learn not to be ADHD anymore than another person can learn not to be blind.
Ok. ADHD basically means "Wacky, bounces off walls, can't concentrate on only one thing at one time". ADHD people, on the other hand, can concentrate on lots of things at one time. They make great airline pilots (really). For me, medication does help.
ADHD is not an excuse, nor is it probably the cause, of your kid's acting out. It may be a secondary cause (if they find it hard in school(either too boring, too rigid, or requiring too much focus), they may not like it, and turn to things that do entertain them.
I think in this case your kids problems stem from your 19 year old, his example, and alcohol. I have ADHD, and i don't do the things your kid does. Yes they are probably messed up in the head in other ways but only a shrink can really make that assessment. Maybe they are bipolar. Keep bothering the GP until he gives you that reference.
PS: doctor shithead was attempting to parody a wwasp rep offering a discount for "casa by the sea".
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I love how your "supportive" friends on ST ridicule you for trying to help your kids by looking elsewhere for information. They're great people.
BTW, did you know that "WillieNelson" is actually "KarenInDallas" (and other names) on this board? Do a search here for "Karen" and you'll see what an absolutly sick, nasty individual she is.
As bad as Karen is, "Anne from Minnesota" might be worse. Here she's called "Ottawa5" and she is truly, deeply demented despite what she tries to convey on ST. Look her up here so you can see who you're dealing with.
Those two women need a program for narcissistic control freaks and know-it-alls, preferably one that involves dog cages and a lot of humiliation!
I wouldn't take advice from either one of these deeply disturbed women...
I'm curious about the Willie--Karen equality. Did Karen move "way up north" to Tennessee? How do you know they are the same poster?
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I love how your "supportive" friends on ST ridicule you for trying to help your kids by looking elsewhere for information. They're great people.
BTW, did you know that "WillieNelson" is actually "KarenInDallas" (and other names) on this board? Do a search here for "Karen" and you'll see what an absolutly sick, nasty individual she is.
As bad as Karen is, "Anne from Minnesota" might be worse. Here she's called "Ottawa5" and she is truly, deeply demented despite what she tries to convey on ST. Look her up here so you can see who you're dealing with.
Those two women need a program for narcissistic control freaks and know-it-alls, preferably one that involves dog cages and a lot of humiliation!
I wouldn't take advice from either one of these deeply disturbed women...
I'm curious about the Willie--Karen equality. Did Karen move "way up north" to Tennessee? How do you know they are the same poster?
Yes, Karen moved to Nashville to work for a timber company. She posted that she was moving there on other forums and has admitted it many times since she's been busted posing as someone else.
Yeah, ol' Karen tries to be sneaky, but she has so many enemies (who she thinks are friends) that sell her out for nothing every time she pulls some crap.
So, yeah, WillieNelson is KarenInDallas, Hstreet, RandomWalk, MomofWildChild, etc. She's just a run-of-the-mill retarded child-hating programmie mom who thinks she knows everything and what's best for everyone's life despite the fact that her own life and experiences raising children have been an unmitigated disaster.
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I love how your "supportive" friends on ST ridicule you for trying to help your kids by looking elsewhere for information. They're great people.
BTW, did you know that "WillieNelson" is actually "KarenInDallas" (and other names) on this board? Do a search here for "Karen" and you'll see what an absolutly sick, nasty individual she is.
As bad as Karen is, "Anne from Minnesota" might be worse. Here she's called "Ottawa5" and she is truly, deeply demented despite what she tries to convey on ST. Look her up here so you can see who you're dealing with.
Those two women need a program for narcissistic control freaks and know-it-alls, preferably one that involves dog cages and a lot of humiliation!
I wouldn't take advice from either one of these deeply disturbed women...
I'm curious about the Willie--Karen equality. Did Karen move "way up north" to Tennessee? How do you know they are the same poster?
Yes, Karen moved to Nashville to work for a timber company. She posted that she was moving there on other forums and has admitted it many times since she's been busted posing as someone else.
Yeah, ol' Karen tries to be sneaky, but she has so many enemies (who she thinks are friends) that sell her out for nothing every time she pulls some crap.
So, yeah, WillieNelson is KarenInDallas, Hstreet, RandomWalk, MomofWildChild, etc. She's just a run-of-the-mill retarded child-hating programmie mom who thinks she knows everything and what's best for everyone's life despite the fact that her own life and experiences raising children have been an unmitigated disaster.
And if you look up her IP addresses she posts from (on ST) using an ip locator, most of her posts come from Tennesee, though she does travel a lot.
She has also admitted many times on ST to posting on Fornits. She's not very well liked here, or anywhere else really. Every time she gets busted she changes her identity. She goes through em pretty quick.
oh. And "unmitigated disaster" is a little mild.
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I think it's pretty funny that she uses Willie Nelson as a username. He's actually one of my favorite activists for the legalization of marijuana.
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4119 (http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4119)
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I think it's pretty funny that she uses Willie Nelson as a username. He's actually one of my favorite activists for the legalization of marijuana.
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4119 (http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4119)
Yeah it's a real riot. I bet the real Willie Nelson would just be uber-proud having her use his name, considering what she, and her pet industry does to kids in the name of the almighty drug war.
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I bet he would too, but I still think it's funny that someone who is all over the place trying to spead the word about how bad drugs are and how much these "damn kids" need rehab uses the screen name of one of the most notorious stoners around.
Meh, maybe it's just me. :D
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I bet he would too, but I still think it's funny that someone who is all over the place trying to spead the word about how bad drugs are and how much these "damn kids" need rehab uses the screen name of one of the most notorious stoners around.
Meh, maybe it's just me. :D
The irony is killing me. Maybe she just likes the music and has no clue about his advocacy. It's not like she chose a SN like 420-247 (which btw. would actually make a nice license plate... scratch that. bad idea) or "bobMarley" or "stickyGreen" or "iLove2SmokeWeed".
God i spent too much time in program. I never even knew what 420 was until i landed in there. Now i'm a walking fucking pharmacologist. I don't do drugs but I sure leaned a shit load about them in program.
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The irony is killing me. Maybe she just likes the music and has no clue about his advocacy. It's not like she chose a SN like 420-247 (which btw. would actually make a nice license plate... scratch that. bad idea) or "bobMarley" or "stickyGreen" or "iLove2SmokeWeed".
God i spent too much time in program. I never even knew what 420 was until i landed in there. Now i'm a walking fucking pharmacologist. I don't do drugs but I sure leaned a shit load about them in program.
Yeah, me too. I never did cocaine before I went in...that was one of the first things I wanted to try later on. In our group therapy sessions (called raps in there) we had to "talk about our past" and how bad it was. The more tears, the better. If you spoke about an incident without sufficient emotion, you were "confronted" and humiliated for the better part of an hour or more in front of the entire group (300-400) in order to help you understand just how bad you really were. So, we learned to embellish and flat out make shit up. Hell, you had to in order to progress. But....my point in all this, is that I learned much more about drugs IN rehab than I had ever known before. I wanted to try all this cool shit I kept hearing about over and over and over again (we had raps 12 hours a day straight, 5 days a week, longer on Mondays and Fridays), even though outwardly I was towing the program line, spouting all the extreme anti-drug bullshit. They fuck with your head on so many different levels and you don't even realize a lot of it until years later sometimes.
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The irony is killing me. Maybe she just likes the music and has no clue about his advocacy. It's not like she chose a SN like 420-247 (which btw. would actually make a nice license plate... scratch that. bad idea) or "bobMarley" or "stickyGreen" or "iLove2SmokeWeed".
She's had to have heard about his arrests. Shit, every time I turn around he's being busted for some fairly large quantity.
::bwahaha::
She's something else. I don't think we've ever had a more Sybil like character on here. And in so many different forums. She poses as either kids or parents or staff of at least 3 different places. And she says we have no life. :rofl:
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I have never said my son's ADHD is an excuse for his behaviour, not at all, in fact entirely the opposite, he often tries to use it as an excuse and I will not have it
However, having ADHD does lead to frutration for my son when he can't grasp certain things, in his report it is described as cognitive behaviour? I'll be able to find out more what that means tomorrow when I see the assessor
ADHD does not mean swinging off the ceiling lights at all, often ADHD children are quiet, have no self esteem, cannot look another person in the eye, avoids contact with others (especially adults) because they feel worthless and stupid, this is the case with my son, I am the only person he trusts & feels comfortable enough with to scream & swear at, the fact that he has spent his school years up until this year being called thick, naughty, stupid hasn't helped much either
I was indeed saying when i spoke to the police about it, that he didn't comprehend that alot of my son's frustrations and inability to control compulsive and irrational behaviour are due to ADHD (don't blame me, it is written in the report as diagnosed by a psychologist) although his medication does help these compulsive outbursts a little
Whoever said that I need therapy is right, you've got it bang on, because I am the one who is cracking under the strain, I am the one who deals with the backlash of bad behaviour even though I cannot get help, saying that, you are wrong in me wanting sympathy etc, it's not sympathy I want it is help, so i came to a forum to get an understanding from children and adults alike who have been where my boys are right now, it seems I was mistaken in thinking you may actually want to use your experiences to help another child, instead you use them to attack the very person who wants to help them, wouldn't it have been nice if someone had wanted to help you guys?? But, I was asking too much, I apologise for thinking you may sympathise with what my boys must be feeling and going through, and want to help them through me, it was a bad judgement error on my behalf
Guest I have been looking to move for a while now, these things don't just happen overnight, so yes I have been looking at properties that are remote, mainly because the boys will have nowehere to go at night in order to get into trouble, that is how serious I am about getting help, I will uproot my life and move (Not to Amish though, forget it)
Why is it alleged? "Toss in alleged total absence of private doctors - medical or psychiatric, no local programs to address issues" what would be my reason to lie about this, I am not getting the help, end of, believe what you like, you obviously have a much clearer understanding of the situation and resources available for me than I do
I do not want a magic solution and you make it sound as if I all of a sudden want help, I fought for 8 years to get my 13 yr old assessed, if I had a magic wand it would be wonderful, but I don't, the solution can't even be considered until I fully understand the problem, this is where I am facing the hurdles, I can't get anyone to see my son to tell me what the hell is wrong with him to even begin to start working on helping him work through this with hopefully a positive outcome for him.
Deborah, did I sound duped by DR Shithead? No! I told him/her that I was aware of the stirring they were trying to do and to get lost, if you see that as being duped then you have the problem not me.
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The irony is killing me. Maybe she just likes the music and has no clue about his advocacy. It's not like she chose a SN like 420-247 (which btw. would actually make a nice license plate... scratch that. bad idea) or "bobMarley" or "stickyGreen" or "iLove2SmokeWeed".
God i spent too much time in program. I never even knew what 420 was until i landed in there. Now i'm a walking fucking pharmacologist. I don't do drugs but I sure leaned a shit load about them in program.
Yeah, me too. I never did cocaine before I went in...that was one of the first things I wanted to try later on. In our group therapy sessions (called raps in there) we had to "talk about our past" and how bad it was. The more tears, the better. If you spoke about an incident without sufficient emotion, you were "confronted" and humiliated for the better part of an hour or more in front of the entire group (300-400) in order to help you understand just how bad you really were. So, we learned to embellish and flat out make shit up. Hell, you had to in order to progress. But....my point in all this, is that I learned much more about drugs IN rehab than I had ever known before. I wanted to try all this cool shit I kept hearing about over and over and over again (we had raps 12 hours a day straight, 5 days a week, longer on Mondays and Fridays), even though outwardly I was towing the program line, spouting all the extreme anti-drug bullshit. They fuck with your head on so many different levels and you don't even realize a lot of it until years later sometimes.
raps raps raps rape of the mind. Yeah i know how it is. How many of you did your guys actually convince. Shit. They had me believing i was an alcoholic and i had only gotten drunk once in my life before program. I was pissed when i snapped out of it. I still am. I never thought such a thing was possable before program. I thought i was strong enough, that i could resist anything they could throw at me. Then i lost hope, and they had me.
I smoked pot a few times but never tried anything hard. AA meetings after NA meetings, and people telling you how lucky you are to have the problem discovered so early. It was such a mind fuck.
So i'm making a website about it for a college art project (actually I used the art project as an excuse to work on it... it's been a long time coming). Gonna present it in class today. Wish me luck. Yup it's 90% done. The select few who have the preview URL have at it.
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ps. i don't speak for everybody here. this is just my opinion.
I have never said my son's ADHD is an excuse for his behaviour, not at all, in fact entirely the opposite, he often tries to use it as an excuse and I will not have it
However, having ADHD does lead to frutration for my son when he can't grasp certain things, in his report it is described as cognitive behaviour? I'll be able to find out more what that means tomorrow when I see the assessor
ADHD does not mean swinging off the ceiling lights at all, often ADHD children are quiet, have no self esteem, cannot look another person in the eye, avoids contact with others (especially adults) because they feel worthless and stupid,
That's more a symptom of depression caused by the reaction of others, and his self perception of his ADHD. As he grows up he may actually look upon it as a gift as I do. There are certain things ADHD people can do that normies can't.
this is the case with my son, I am the only person he trusts & feels comfortable enough with to scream & swear at, the fact that he has spent his school years up until this year being called thick, naughty, stupid hasn't helped much either
Have you considered a martial arts class for him? I'm serious. It teaches self discipline and self confidence. It's very rare for kids to misuse what they are taught because of these elements. I know it sounds like a bad idea but it might help him have some real sense of achievement.
I was indeed saying when i spoke to the police about it, that he didn't comprehend that alot of my son's frustrations and inability to control compulsive and irrational behaviour are due to ADHD (don't blame me, it is written in the report as diagnosed by a psychologist) although his medication does help these compulsive outbursts a little
Whoever said that I need therapy is right, you've got it bang on, because I am the one who is cracking under the strain, I am the one who deals with the backlash of bad behaviour even though I cannot get help, saying that, you are wrong in me wanting sympathy etc, it's not sympathy I want it is help, so i came to a forum to get an understanding from children and adults alike who have been where my boys are right now, it seems I was mistaken in thinking you may actually want to use your experiences to help another child, instead you use them to attack the very person who wants to help them,
Understand why a lot of people might be bitter against parents. I'll tell you my story and you might understand. Many people in program tried to cry out to their parents and ended up being pretty much abandoned, accused of being manipulative. The damage done in most cases to the relationship between parent and child is pretty permanent.
also, not everybody here has attacked you. It's an unmoderated forum. People say all kinds of things, just like real life. There are nice people here, there are trolls, and there are assholes. It's not sugarcoat land like over there at ST where threads get closed when a poster hits too close to the truth. This is uncensored. So don't blame us all for the reactions of a few and realize where those few are coming from. You're coming from ST and most people who have come here from ST haven't made a very good impression on them.
wouldn't it have been nice if someone had wanted to help you guys?? But, I was asking too much, I apologise for thinking you may sympathise with what my boys must be feeling and going through, and want to help them through me, it was a bad judgement error on my behalf
If you were in program a staff member would be yelling at you right now for starting a "pity party". It's not true, but in program you had to accept it as true. Eventually you learned not to resist, or speak how you truly felt. Now people are out in the real world and fornits gives them an opportunity to finally speak out about their experiences and have somebody listen. So we both want the same thing. We both want somebody to listen and sympathize without being attacked. Well some people here do listen. just tune out the garbage.
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Oh god, it fucked with me for a long time. I was in there for two years and my dad was an extreme believer. He married another parent from there and I got pregnant by another graduate less than a year after getting out, so I was surrounded by all these "true believers". They screwed with my custody for about 15 years (with the hlep of a lawyer on the BOD of Straight) and all of it was based on some whacked "diagnosis" of me when I was fucking 16 years old. I had only smoked pot and drank before I went in. They insisted I had done coke and various other drugs and you absolutey could not progress if they thought you weren't "being honest". So a lot of us ended up with these lengthy drug lists that were completely full of shit. Then after I got out I wanted to try all these other drugs that I had heard about for so long. When I did, all the crap about deadinsaneinjail ran through my head. Ya know, the whole self-fulfulling prophecy stuff. They feed you the crap about powerlessness, diagnose children with questionable 'diseases' (I'm sorry, you can't possibly tag a 13 or 14 year old with dx of addict and not expect them to respond accordingly), while stripping you of any innate survival skills that you've acquired (a lot of the kids come from pretty dysfunctional families to begin with and you learn how to cope) and send you out into the real world and expect you to function like a well adjusted adult. I faked it for a while. Was a good little Straightling, had all the lingo down, shook my finger in shame and disgust at my ex-"druggie" friends (and most everyone who drank or used drugs in any form or fashion) but little by little reality creeps in.
That's what I think is the worst part of all of these places. It screws with your core. It makes you doubt your own instincts. Critical thought and logic is bad, faith is good. Faith in "the program" or God or whichever symbolic entity. Self is bad, group is good. I'm 41 years old with two grown kids and really am just now figuring out who I[/b] am. Granted my situation with being surrounded and controlled by these people may have led me to taking a little longer, but fucking with your core is fucking with your core no matter the length of time. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the 'if onlys' of my life.
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really am just now figuring out who I[/b] am.
What? You say? I thought I learned that in program!
Yeah it's fun how they convince you that you aren't you and you don't know if you are really you or not (but they can "help" you find the real you, or at least make sure the old you takes a hike). Whee. Isn't it wonderful. And it's fucking imposable to talk to anybody about this who hasn't been through program. They just don't get it. They think: "get over it". Easier said than done.
So how long did it take you to figure out the full extent of what they did after getting out?
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I'm still figuring it out on some levels. Because of what my parents, my ex (AA nazi half the time, crackhead the other half) and his parents did during my kids lives (I was dragged into court or threatened with it whenever I stepped out of their arbitrary, ever changing line) it really fucked with me for a long time. I was off and on ordered to AA meetings, mostly whenever the ex was going. He'd get in trouble for something and be court ordered to it and was pissed. He'd get all holier than thou from the meetings and come up with some reason for mediation. Then I'd either end up paying enormous atty fees going to court fighting it (with my time at Straight being the predominant dx that I was an 'alcoholic') or in mediation where I'd be ordered to AA. The whole industry and culture just makes me sick.
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The whole industry and culture just makes me sick.
Well it's designed to reform you junkie scum into productive members of society. Can't you see the destructive beauty of the system?
I totally agree. Once you have that program stigma... It's like a big fucking letter P on your forehead. Why if you were there it must have been for a good reason right?
I'm a masochist personally. I'm still trying to remember shit i blocked out. It's probably a bad idea but hey! I never did think about the consequences. I'm just a fucked up program kid.
It's funny. Normally i'm quite elaborate in my speech and writing, but there are certain things i try to write about regarding program and i just freeze up. I can hardly put sentences together. You got the same problem?
Are straight Dx's actually valid anywhere? You would think by now the whole kit-n-kaboodle would have been discredited. Eh. Nobody lobbies for program kids. Somebody needs to start a program PAC.
So what were you in for?
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Somebody needs to start a program PAC.
*clears throat, points to donation thread*
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Nah, the dx doesn't really mean anything clinically but a judge sees that in my background and I'm fucked before I even open my mouth. Thank god that's over now! I really had no idea how bad it was until it was over. A therapist (the only one who ever really did me any good), when I explained the whole sordid story said 'my god, you've been living in fear for 20 years'. I really had. I lived under a microscope for all that time. It's like they would all sit back and just wait for something to pounce on. If they heard that I had A BEER at a party, a fucking family meeting was called....the ex, his parents, my parents...CPS was called. That shit has a cumulative effect too. We'd sit down for a mediation or end up back in court and the judge would look at the file, see all the times we had been in court or mediation and that was another strike against me. No matter that it was all frivilous, stupid, vindictive shit....the ex was in AA, the parents were 'on his side' and I was fucked. It was a fucking nightmare.
My parents got divorced, I went a little wild when my mom and I moved out and they didn't know what to do. It wasn't even that bad really. Smoking a little dope, drinking. I got into an accident and the driver was drunk. I think that's what sent them over the edge. I wasn't hurt badly, but we were lucky. My dad had heard about it through work. He was an artist for the St. Pete Times. The same paper that was running stories about Straight. :roll:
It's funny. Normally i'm quite elaborate in my speech and writing, but there are certain things i try to write about regarding program and i just freeze up. I can hardly put sentences together. You got the same problem?
Yeah, I do. There's just so much to explain, it's exhausting.
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Yeah, I do. There's just so much to explain, it's exhausting.
No need to explain. It's all the same song anyway and i'm quite familiar with the tune myself.
Fucking hell. They really did a number on your family too. Yeah i know how that is.
Do you have any idea how long it took me to explain the shit to my parents and actually have them listen. Most of the time it was like "we don't want to talk about that and you know it." It's only until i fucking shoved reams and reams of documentation under their noses and stood there while they read it (because otherwise they won't) they finally began to understand ("Oh. So my kid was telling the truth after all.").
The whole program thing just sounds so preposterous to outsiders.
Fid they ever find out what happened to that pump anyhoo? I heard it got "misplaced".
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Deborah, did I sound duped by DR Shithead? No! I told him/her that I was aware of the stirring they were trying to do and to get lost, if you see that as being duped then you have the problem not me.
I think you've confused me with someone else.
Ever heard of a book "Your Child's Self-Esteem", Dorothy Cargill?
Good stuff.
Ya know that amphetimines don't improve self-esteem, but they can shrink the brain and enlarge the heart. Something to consider.
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No need to explain. It's all the same song anyway and i'm quite familiar with the tune myself.
I mean that I freeze up, cause there's just too much to try to organize into coherent sentences.
Fucking hell. They really did a number on your family too. Yeah i know how that is.
Do you have any idea how long it took me to explain the shit to my parents and actually have them listen. Most of the time it was like "we don't want to talk about that and you know it." It's only until i fucking shoved reams and reams of documentation under their noses and stood there while they read it (because otherwise they won't) they finally began to understand ("Oh. So my kid was telling the truth after all.").
My dad and I don't talk. We haven't for about 5 or 6 years now. He won't listen. I tried one more time when Maia's book came out. He wanted no part of it.
The whole program thing just sounds so preposterous to outsiders.
Fid they ever find out what happened to that pump anyhoo? I heard it got "misplaced".
:rofl: Yeah, that's what I heard too. I have no idea. I couldn't believe how big that story was on the front page of the Times a couple weeks back. The top half of the front page and the entire back inside page. Guess my dad couldn't have missed that one. I wonder what he thought?
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So i'm making a website about it for a college art project (actually I used the art project as an excuse to work on it... it's been a long time coming). Gonna present it in class today. Wish me luck. Yup it's 90% done. The select few who have the preview URL have at it.
Good luck. It's a certain A+!!
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Deborah, did I sound duped by DR Shithead? No! I told him/her that I was aware of the stirring they were trying to do and to get lost, if you see that as being duped then you have the problem not me.
I think you've confused me with someone else.
Ever heard of a book "Your Child's Self-Esteem", Dorothy Cargill?
Good stuff.
Ya know that amphetimines don't improve self-esteem, but they can shrink the brain and enlarge the heart. Something to consider.
Deborah I'm so sorry, in my anger I quoted what Nihilanthic
said thinking it was you, I apologise :oops:
yer I've almost becvome an expert on ADHD and Ritolin, I am aware of the dangers and take my son for regular monitoring of blood pressure, growth, weight etc checks, I've had a heart scan done too, I refused to let him have the mnedication wihtout having it done 1st, especially as there is a family history of cardiomyapathy (sp?)
I know the Ritolin won't help self esteem, but it does aid his concentration, that in turn gives him the confidence to do his school work and helps him to manage to sit still for 5 minutes, in turn he gets praise and that boosts his self esteem, boy do i know about it when he doesn't take it, he's virtually suicidal once it dawns on him that he has been a total pain all day.
He does have lots of other issues which are gradually surfacing, it's taking a very long time to diagnose them bit by bit, and obviously each thing will have to be treated bit by bit as seperate problems - right now I'm the one with self esteem issues, I really feel like I messed up big time and spend a lot of time thinking back on how I could have done things differently
I am going to try to read every book that has been suggested to me, and its a lot!
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I mean that I freeze up, cause there's just too much to try to organize into coherent sentences.
I know it well. It's like talking in fragments or being overcome with sudden confusion. Mind goes totally blank.
My dad and I don't talk. We haven't for about 5 or 6 years now. He won't listen. I tried one more time when Maia's book came out. He wanted no part of it.
it might be the guilt. Although I finally got my dad to listen my mom still actually plugs her ears. She's slowly catching on and asking questions but it's a difficult deprogramming process.
:rofl: Yeah, that's what I heard too. I have no idea. I couldn't believe how big that story was on the front page of the Times a couple weeks back. The top half of the front page and the entire back inside page. Guess my dad couldn't have missed that one. I wonder what he thought?
He might not have read about Sembler or recognized his name. Even then, The article mentions little about the abuse. You read the comments on the paper's website? It's all stuff like "oh my god. how could they embarass that poor poor man" or "why is this on the front page" Oh well. Sex sells. Child abuse apparently doesn't get very good ratings.
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Oh now I'm the bad guy? :rofl: Thanks for the honor.
I guess the tongue in your cheek didn't make it over the internet, but just so you know... people have taken our trolls 100% seriously before, time and time again.
We even had a fake program page up, HOSTED ON FORNITS, with S&M therapy, and people would actually try to sign up for it! The little applet went to nowhere, of course, but they still did it.
:rofl: at any rate I'm glad you've opened a dialogue here. If the struggling turkeys would do the same it would save a lot of children a lot of suffering.
[/url]
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Exhausted, have you thought about hiring an escort service? If you could get your child to the United States, an escort service could take him the rest of the way.
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Exhausted, have you thought about hiring an escort service? If you could get your child to the United States, an escort service could take him the rest of the way.
Why
would
I
Hire
An
Escort
Service
When
My
Child
IS NOT GOING TO A PROGRAM!
Unless he needs hospitilisation for fear of him endangering himself, or goes to jail, then you get a free escort service, they're called the police
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Bob's another troll. A lot of them have crawled out of the woodwork on this thread.
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Oh for crying out loud, even a troll can read can they not? Surely my absolute refusal to send my child anywhere is apparent by now?
What the hell is wrong with these peope that they can't understand a simple concept like I'm not mad enough to just send my kid halfway across the world to people I have never met just because they say they can be trusted on the internet - it's like telling a child it's okay to meet their net friend because they say they are a 13 year old boy so therefore they can't really be a 50 year old pedo :roll:
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Are you just referring to the troll saying that, or do you mean that the real thing has done it as well?
If your communications with any program have become at all interesting (and we might find interesting what you don't), I think this entire forum would strongly appreciate it if you posted them. (But please remember what TSW said, and edit them for direct references to your children.)
I also meant it about that tape recorder business. Find out when the conversation goes to hell, and prevent it from reaching that point. You're the adult; your kids don't have the wisdom to prevent things from getting out of hand, so the only one left is you.
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Bob, if you are not employed by any of the fine companies listed below, then your company can not be trusted.
Exhausted, your kids would be safe with any of the fine compainies listed below.
ESCORT LIST:
Safe and Sound Transportation
www.SafeandSoundTransportation.com (http://www.SafeandSoundTransportation.com)
Fully Licensed and Insured.
"We go the extra miles" is our motto. We ensure safe and reliable transportation from start to finish.
Safe and Sound is based in Central Maine, about 10 minutes from Bangor International Airport. Our close proximity to ?the rest of the world' affords us the luxury of boarding a plane at a moment's notice, if necessary. We will travel anywhere in the United States to perform this service, and will provide ground transports within the New England Region.
We are a team of dedicated, motivated and experienced professionals (and most of us are parents, too) with over 100 combined years of working with youth, "at-risk" and otherwise; adults and children with disabilities.
Lorraine Colpitts
www.SafeGuardas.com (http://www.SafeGuardas.com)
Dana Cox - Toll Free - 1-866-814-0283 Direct 1-801-763-1319 www.OdysseyTransport.com (http://www.OdysseyTransport.com)
Simon Timm - 801-550-2876 or 801-259-3260 simon@odysseytransport.com
At Odyssey Youth Transport we believe in doing one thing better than anyone else in the business...safe, reliable transportation and escort of your child. We understand that treatment begins when you pick up the phone to call us. All of our services are facilitated in a therapeutic manner. We treat all our clients with honesty, dignity and respect. For children.
Odyssey Transport was recently filmed for an upcoming Dr. Phil Show on transporting teens. Stay tuned! Dr. Phil's staff located Odyssey Transport through PURE's recommended Escort/Transport list.
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Can't you assclowns troll ST instead?
(Woo! Post 666! Okay, I'm done for the night.)
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We are here for you:
Call Toll Free: 1-866-798-2285
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Are you just referring to the troll saying that, or do you mean that the real thing has done it as well?
If your communications with any program have become at all interesting (and we might find interesting what you don't), I think this entire forum would strongly appreciate it if you posted them. (But please remember what TSW said, and edit them for direct references to your children.)
I also meant it about that tape recorder business. Find out when the conversation goes to hell, and prevent it from reaching that point. You're the adult; your kids don't have the wisdom to prevent things from getting out of hand, so the only one left is you.
was referring to all the people who keep popping up and saying they can help me by dragging my kid out of bed in the night and transporting him from the UK to the US, it isn't going to happen, yet still, as you see from the above posts, I'm still getting the offers of 'help'
i have said before that Aspen e mailed me saying to get him on the next flight and they'd start him the next morning wihtout really knowing wether what i was saying was true or not, I could have kidnapped any old persons kid and sent them for all they cared.....they continue to e mail me wondering where I am and why haven't I sent my son - I just delete them lol
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Deleted
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they continue to e mail me wondering where I am and why haven't I sent my son - I just delete them lol
Please reach into your Deleted Items folder and copy and paste them into a new topic on Fornits. We're REALLY curious what they have to say.
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WAY TO GO EXHAUSTED! NEED MORE LIKE YOU.
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I've been curious from the beginning as to how Aspen got your email address. I assume you must have emailed them requesting help? If that's correct, what kind of help were you expecting from them, if not wilderness or TBS?
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I've been curious from the beginning as to how Aspen got your email address. I assume you must have emailed them requesting help? If that's correct, what kind of help were you expecting from them, if not wilderness or TBS?
Hi deborah, what happened was I was on another forum, totally unrelated to anything to do with teens etc and there was a link on there about what happened to the young man who had the amonia tablets shoved up his nose in January, there was a pop up that 'appeared' in front of the shutdown cross which i wasn't quick enough to avoid, and there I was on an Aspen website, curious because I had just seen that horrible video, I read on, there was a survey along the lines of 'does your teen need help, is your teen in danger' or something similar, and as mine is, i stupidly took it, voila they had me tracked in a second telling me how my son could be dead in no time at all and there wasn't any time to waste, so i emailed back saying actually no, I wasn't looking to send him anywhere in the states because of the reasons I gave you and would they take me off their mailing list, then I got all these desperate emails saying "But you must help your child, you're a bad parent if you don't, trust us we'll arrange escort and what not"
She was right, I need to help my child and am slowly wearing my teeth down trying to do so, but not that way, sorry but it's not for him, he needs psychiatric help not ammonia tablets shoved up his nose and the occassional beating, anyway they still e mail me, I'll have a look and see if I have any, but I do clear out my deleted items folder regularly due to the vast volume of viagara offers and promises to get a bigger penis *guaranteed* I get
(I wrote back to one that advertised "Would you like a larger penis" and siad "Wouldn't every woman?") Sorry guys but it pisses me off :lol:
If I havent got any, I promise you will get the next e mail they send me, i don't really know what the contents will be because as I say after a while I just deleted them without reading them. & they are becoming less frequent
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Hi deborah, what happened was I was on another forum, totally unrelated to anything to do with teens etc and there was a link on there about what happened to the young man who had the amonia tablets shoved up his nose in January, there was a pop up that 'appeared' in front of the shutdown cross which i wasn't quick enough to avoid, and there I was on an Aspen website,
Wow. News site or what? Can you find that site again and post a url? I'm curious what site allows Aspen to have a pop up ad with a survey.
(I wrote back to one that advertised "Would you like a larger penis" and siad "Wouldn't every woman?") Sorry guys but it pisses me off :lol:
:rofl: Good one!
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Crikey deborah I'm going back a long time now, probably nearly a year
this is the result of an e mail I got on 16 November 2006 00:18:29
http://www.parenthelpcenter.com/ (http://www.parenthelpcenter.com/)
it may be helpful to some, and anger others, take your pick, you'll find adverts on there as well.
I'll see if I can find that website again, I often get pop ups that cover the shutdown button as I roll over it, even with the blocker on! You have to remember this site was a site about programs, so I don't suppose it would be unusual for any other program to use it for advertising or in my case geting my address, although you would have thought they'd decide not to advertise on a site that is currently showing a child being killed !!!
I'm still searching my hard drive for those deleted e mails though, bear with me, I'm sure I can delve deep and find something!
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although you would have thought they'd decide not to advertise on a site that is currently showing a child being killed !!!
When you understand keyword-driven advertising, you'll understand how this can be possible.
A human being didn't make that decision.
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I do understand key word driven advertising, I have a degree in computing
I said probably nearly a year to Deborah, Im having a blonde moment, it was obviously at the time the video was released *doh* which is almost a year I believe
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That is the thanks I get for trying to save a teen who I thought was real.It is our goal to prevent youngsters from growing up being like Three Springs Waygookin.
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# Teens In Crisis: 1-800-250-3966
# Teen Soulutions: 1-800-429-6099
# Teen Help: 1-800-840-5704
# Cross Creek Admissions: 1-800-818-6228
# Help My Teen: 1-800-247-1696
# Lifelines Family Services: 1-877-723-3767
# Parent Resources Hotline: 1-888-200-5061
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She was right, I need to help my child and am slowly wearing my teeth down trying to do so, but not that way, sorry but it's not for him, he needs psychiatric help not ammonia tablets shoved up his nose and the occassional beating
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
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Actually can I change that?
He probably does need the ocassional beating but I'll leave out the amonia tabs :P
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Exhausted, I am glad you have not lost your personality and your ability to joke around. That is a good sign.
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If I don't laugh, someone'll find me in a crumpled heap on the floor drooling from one side of my mouth as I rock to and fro
let's just hope that one day i can look back at the last few years with fine, upstanding sons who have made it through the darkness
Their good jobs can pay for the Botox injections and hair dye to remove the wrinkles and grey hairs they have caused!!
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If I don't laugh, someone'll find me in a crumpled heap on the floor drooling from one side of my mouth as I rock to and fro
let's just hope that one day i can look back at the last few years with fine, upstanding sons who have made it through the darkness
Their good jobs can pay for the Botox injections and hair dye to remove the wrinkles and grey hairs they have caused!!
Might I suggest nuclear medicine? Quite lucrative, he'll get to play with radioactive shit, have a lot of work available to him (its not just chemo and cancer shit, its contrast mediums for looking at someones heart, or basically any blood vessel or anything involving fluids and looking for leaks for injuries, transplants, conditions, etc...) plus you can make thousands just for looking at a scan or an x-ray.
I'm seriously considering it, especially becuase its pharmacy school, at least in the USA, not full blown medical school.
I definitely have the ability, but NOT the patience for med school. Being reasonable with your goals is one of the best skills to learn, imho.
Oh, and to you personally - humor is what has kept me sane all this time for the past two years I've known about these places, or I'd be in such a state myself. Or, crying in a ball hiding from the world, or making a terrible drastic mistake if I reacted out of anger :(
P.S. I'm called niles all the time because people often cant spell or pronounce "nihilanthic" and Im too lazy to log in right now. Beer + quiznos makes me one satiated young man :rofl:
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I don't think any of my boys are going to make it as nuclear scientists, I don't care really, as long as they stay safe and well and we get through this really rough time, then what they do for a living is immaterial, their happiness is above al else, they can dig holes in the road for all i care
You did log in Niles :lol:
Laughter is definitely the best medicine!
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I don't think any of my boys are going to make it as nuclear scientists, I don't care really, as long as they stay safe and well and we get through this really rough time, then what they do for a living is immaterial, their happiness is above al else, they can dig holes in the road for all i care
You did log in Niles :lol:
Laughter is definitely the best medicine!
Nuclear medicine, not nuclear science. Me and nuclear science mixes about as well as sparks and oily rags. Fun for a short time but then there will be one HUGE mess to clean up, and I really dont like the idea of men in spacesuits dragging me off to scrub radioactive particles off of me with wire brushes and turpentine for a few hours while gutting my house, trashing it and burying it in a ditch with a big nuclear trifoil put on a sign planted in it while I get fined out the ass for a blue flash.
Also, NOW I logged in, you can specify a un-taken name as an anonymous if you wish. :P
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Exhausted, you definitely have the right attitude and are thinking clearly.
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Thanks I try
But I don't think I have thought clearly for nearly 20 years :D
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At least someone go cut and past something new for us to talk about.
Parent 1: My kid is doing things that scare me.
Parent 2. Oh my, that is quit frightening. Call x company to kidnap him and take him to x program.
Parent 1. You sure reccomended that quick, do you receive payment from them?
Parent 2. Dead or in jail. Dead or in jail. Dead or in jail.
Rinse and repeat.
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I tried to copy and paste from ST but the function is disabled. Anyway around it?
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I tried to copy and paste from ST but the function is disabled. Anyway around it?
they didn't disable copy & paste. they disabled right click.
simply select the text and hit ctrl+c (shorcut for copy)
on a mac it's command (apple key) + c.
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Thank you.
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I tried but it did not work.
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I tried but it did not work.
You using internet exploder....er exploiter.... i mean explorer? I don't have a windows box to test it out on. Only mac and Linux. go to http://http://www.getfirefox.com. Firefox definitely lets you do it and you won't have to deal with any more popups or activeX virus shit.
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Firefox definitely lets you do it and you won't have to deal with any more popups or activeX virus shit.
Yep!
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Psy..
I have crabs.. Man they are eating me alive in the old nether regions..
What do you suggest??
No clue. Do i look like a doctor?
My areas of expertise are network administration, some psychology, foreign affairs, 3d art, photography, art in general, programming (low level c / c++ mainly), French, and IT in general.
Doctor. nope. Try rubbing some ben gay on it. :rofl:
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Benzyl betnoate.....kill the bleeders or just go shave yourself bald
I only happen to know this because it also kills horse lice & the chemist told me what it was really used for when I went to pick it up - crabs on humans
Don't make me angry, I swear this is true :D
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(http://http://www.forthehorseofcourse.com/boots/rider.jpg)
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I would so love to know what that picture was 8-)
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You are so mean
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So we went from making fun of ST's mental problems to... some boys mental problems with chiggercream on his nuts.
:-?
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So we went from making fun of ST's mental problems to... some boys mental problems with chiggercream on his nuts.
:-?
Go figure :lol:
Got to have some entertainment on a forum like this or we'd all be slashing our wrists