Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 11, 2006, 06:22:19 AM
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Just an opinion?
While I have never posted anything but have continued to read on Fornits for a long time, I feel compelled to voice my opinion.
For starters, while, I, myself have worked at HLA, and while I have found some interesting readings on here, and there may be some facts correct, people have also have misconstrued, lied and/or are very misinformed on other situations.
The one thing that does bother me is the fact that individuals are giving out names of children who have attended the school, over the web, whose parents have sent their children to HLA or (to other intervention/boarding/academic/therapeutic schools.) And while, I am sure that some of you feel that you have been done a complete injustice at HLA, do you not think that an injustice is being done to the same kids by breaking confidentiality and posting their names on the web. You should be ashamed?I do not see you posting your real names on here, which I might add includes ex-staff, staff, parents and students. To make one correction, give credit where credit is due, referring to one particular incident wherein about the child who attempted suicide and it was not Walter who saved this child?s life ? it was Mark Keith. Your story here is not entiely accurate either.
And while I do not know Bill Gray?s ex-wife, and I certainly have no use or respect for Bill Gray, I find it interesting that at least she identified herself. If what you post is true then why don?t you identify yourself?
If you continue to choose to post your opinions, facts, lies, stretched truths or whatever, please do so with caution, caring and most of all with respect for other people. If you want your voice to be heard, then do it the legal way and stand up for what you believe, thats the only way to make any real changes. And by the nasty name calling on here it just shows people how much disrespect you have.
I also find it interesting that people are throwing stones at all staff. Just because you have a bag of apples and a few have them have turned out to be bad you do not throw out the entire bag. That includes staff and/or students. And while you all choose to condemn every one who works there, contrary to a lot of belief there are staff there and were there in the past that cares about the kids and helping them. And while I also believe that there were kids that did not belong at HLA/Ridge Creek, maybe some of you need to be directing some of your anger at the ones that sent you there or at yourself for your own misbehaviors. And to the ones who supposedly did you injustice by going through the courts.
To any of you who have been on here with whom I have had the pleasure of knowing, I hope all is well with you and I have missed you all. And while, I do still associate with a number of you on a personal basis, I hope that if there is any of you who we have lost contact together, that you are all doing well and just know that there were staff that cared deeply for you. Please feel free to call me I would love to hear from you.
Not a coward?.
Tamara Keith ? ex-school communicator and wife of Mark Keith.
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"Dammit! I want that damage report!"
"We've been hit, sir. We're sinking. The engine room is flooded, half our men are dead and we're listing heavily starboard, taking on water. We're going down, sir."
"We'll see about that, sailor. Get me Keith's wife from Damage Control, pronto!"
(Captain mumbles under his breath) "She'll keep us afloat for those few critical moments until I can get myself off this wreck. 'Down with the ship'? Fuck that.."
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Mrs. Keith - Answer this:
http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facs ... =OTP001022 (http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facsum.jsp?varFACID=OTP001022)
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Tamara,
Even the people on this site with admit in private that they know there are good people working at HLA who care about the kids. They will even admit that there are kids who get help there. The main problem they have is that Dr. Buccellato has chosen to run the school in a very irresponsible way. You know from working there that he is crazy with some of the decisions he makes. He has made Mark's life crazy on more than one occasion. He is financially irresponsible, he lies about credentials of staff, and admits kids who have no business being there. You know these things are true. If you look past the rhetoric that goes on here, you will find a lot of truth to what is being said.
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The bottom line is this...
If as a staff member you choose to ignore the way the place is run and stay... then you SUPPORT it and those that are in charge.
Just my opinion
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Just an opinion?
While I have never posted anything but have continued to read on Fornits for a long time, I feel compelled to voice my opinion.
For starters, while, I, myself have worked at HLA, and while I have found some interesting readings on here, and there may be some facts correct, people have also have misconstrued, lied and/or are very misinformed on other situations.
The one thing that does bother me is the fact that individuals are giving out names of children who have attended the school, over the web, whose parents have sent their children to HLA or (to other intervention/boarding/academic/therapeutic schools.) And while, I am sure that some of you feel that you have been done a complete injustice at HLA, do you not think that an injustice is being done to the same kids by breaking confidentiality and posting their names on the web. You should be ashamed?I do not see you posting your real names on here, which I might add includes ex-staff, staff, parents and students. To make one correction, give credit where credit is due, referring to one particular incident wherein about the child who attempted suicide and it was not Walter who saved this child?s life ? it was Mark Keith. Your story here is not entiely accurate either.
And while I do not know Bill Gray?s ex-wife, and I certainly have no use or respect for Bill Gray, I find it interesting that at least she identified herself. If what you post is true then why don?t you identify yourself?
If you continue to choose to post your opinions, facts, lies, stretched truths or whatever, please do so with caution, caring and most of all with respect for other people. If you want your voice to be heard, then do it the legal way and stand up for what you believe, thats the only way to make any real changes. And by the nasty name calling on here it just shows people how much disrespect you have.
I also find it interesting that people are throwing stones at all staff. Just because you have a bag of apples and a few have them have turned out to be bad you do not throw out the entire bag. That includes staff and/or students. And while you all choose to condemn every one who works there, contrary to a lot of belief there are staff there and were there in the past that cares about the kids and helping them. And while I also believe that there were kids that did not belong at HLA/Ridge Creek, maybe some of I want you to be directing some of your anger at the ones that sent you there or at yourself for your own misbehaviors. And to the ones who supposedly did you injustice by going through the courts.
To any of you who have been on here with whom I have had the pleasure of knowing, I hope all is well with you and I have missed you all. And while, I do still associate with a number of you on a personal basis, I hope that if there is any of you who we have lost contact together, that you are all doing well and just know that there were staff that cared deeply for you. Please feel free to call me I would love to hear from you.
Not a coward?.
Tamara Keith ? ex-school communicator and wife of Mark Keith.
Is this any excuse for your husband calling kids "worthless little fuckers"?
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Tamara, I have no idea who either you or your husband is so I won't attack you directly. I will however take issue with a number of your comments.
people have also have misconstrued, lied and/or are very misinformed on other situations.
Really? Which ones specifically. You mentioned a situation regarding your husband that you feel was misconstrued. Fine what are some of the others?
The one thing that does bother me is the fact that individuals are giving out names of children who have attended the school, over the web, whose parents have sent their children to HLA or (to other intervention/boarding/academic/therapeutic schools.) And while, I am sure that some of you feel that you have been done a complete injustice at HLA, do you not think that an injustice is being done to the same kids by breaking confidentiality and posting their names on the web.
Hi I'm Kettle you must be Pot? HLA staffers and Susie the Bullfrog specifically worked tirelessly for quite some time to identify and publish online who some of us were. Myself in particular. Now simply because they were too stupid to ever really figure it out changes nothing about the fact that they tried. Now as far as mentioned the names of students who arent involved in the discussion, I agree their names should not be mentioned without their permission. It however happens on both sides.
And while I also believe that there were kids that did not belong at HLA/Ridge Creek, maybe some of I want you to be directing some of your anger at the ones that sent you there or at yourself for your own misbehaviors. And to the ones who supposedly did you injustice by going through the courts.
I'm assuming that last comment was directed towards Deborah? Her situation is no different then some of ours. When HLA admits a student and soon discovers they either don't belogn there or need a more restrictive enviroment the ethical and respondsible thing to do is: SEND THE KID AWAY!!!!! However at HLA the allmighty dollar reigns supreme and anything or anyone who interfers with that is percieved as a threat. Student, parent or state agency alike. The school admitted me and kept me there illegally. HLA staffers lied in open court to keep Deborah's son there. Don't we have the right to be angry about that?
And while I do not know Bill Gray?s ex-wife, and I certainly have no use or respect for Bill Gray, I find it interesting that at least she identified herself. If what you post is true then why don?t you identify yourself?
She also posted anonymously so she could attack people from the shadows, threatened and tried to reveal personal information about posters with opinions contrary to hers, and ducked out like the idiot coward she is whenever the kitchen got a little too hot. As to why we dont identify ourselves....Why don't you ask Marla or Clarke how HLA reacts people posting the truth.
If you continue to choose to post your opinions, facts, lies, stretched truths or whatever, please do so with caution, caring and most of all with respect for other people. If you want your voice to be heard, then do it the legal way and stand up for what you believe, thats the only way to make any real changes. And by the nasty name calling on here it just shows people how much disrespect you have.
Are you going to claim HLA staffers have shown care caution or respect? Just look at F.Lee or any of his other names for a prime example of how hla staffers act on here.
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The bottom line is this...
If as a staff member you choose to ignore the way the place is run and stay... then you SUPPORT it and those that are in charge.
Just my opinion
Thanks for your opinion. Tamara left HLA a long time ago.
She is a remarkable person and one of the ONLY reasons my kid survived HLA. The other reason he survived was Mark Keith. My kid, who hated HLA, has credited Mark and Tamara with saving his life. Say what you want about HLA - I hate all of those people and frankly would like to see Buccellato behind bars - but be careful what you say about Mark and Tamara Keith. Do not judge them unless you know them. They are amazing human beings.
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Bullshit, you're another lying shill. But it's funny to see the lying shills go "no, MY owner is okay, it's all the OTHERS that were at fault!"
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how does a staff in the role of school communicator save someone's life? or did she have other duties? why did she leave and mark stay?
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No thanks necessary. I didn't know Tamara but have met Mark on several occasions. I don't question that your child may have benefited from the experience. Unfortunately, he may be one in several hundred that didn't. My statement wasn't a personal attack against the Keith's...I'm sorry you took it as such. As a staff member at HLA I left because I didn't support the program and recognized that it wouldn't change. Again, I stand by my original statement that if staff members stay they must be supporting HLA and all of its practices regardless of their individual contributions.
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You know this really is sort of the quintessential HLA response:
"Don't focus on what we're doing, focus on yourself and your anger. What's that you say? We're doing the exact same thing we're admonishing you for? Nonsense! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtian!"
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Tamara-
You and Mark are awesome people. I have seen the difference you two have made in the lives of many children and staff. Thank you so much for all of your support.
If you don't know who this is...your mom probably does. :P
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how does a staff in the role of school communicator save someone's life? or did she have other duties? why did she leave and mark stay?
She took it upon herself to get to know my child. He reached out to her and she responded. For the most part the "counselors" didn't give a crap about my kid. But Tamara did.
I'll get called a "lying shill" again. Whatever. I have nothing good to say about HLA these days. But don't judge Tamara unless you know her.
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No thanks necessary. I didn't know Tamara but have met Mark on several occasions. I don't question that your child may have benefited from the experience. Unfortunately, he may be one in several hundred that didn't. My statement wasn't a personal attack against the Keith's...I'm sorry you took it as such. As a staff member at HLA I left because I didn't support the program and recognized that it wouldn't change. Again, I stand by my original statement that if staff members stay they must be supporting HLA and all of its practices regardless of their individual contributions.
Me too. And I agree with this 100%. If you know what's going on and choose to stay and don't go to the authorities to report the rampant abuse, then you are ONE OF THE ABUSERS and fully deserving of a full share of scorn and blame.
Now, as far as supporting the Keith's, all I need do is look at the records from ORS showing Mr. Keith has been cited for running the facility improperly, withholding food, allegedly beating a child, not reporting abuse or suicide tries, falsifying/destroying/not keeping records, etc. I wouldn't let that fucker anywhere NEAR my kid. Remember also that what the investigators actually find and cite is normally only a fraction of the violations - only the ones that can be proven.
HLA is dirty. Any staff still taking money from it is equally as dirty or worse.
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your mom is dirty
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One more time the quintessential HLA response. The above posting was done by a staff member who rather than offering a real response or seeking to honestly discuss the problem instead reaches for the lowest common denominator.
Now the pro-hlaers will deny this up and down swearing its not coming from the school, but rather one of us trying to paint hla staff in a negative light (as if we had to try).
The truth is though that it was an hla staffer, this is all they know how to do.
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TO the bold citizen that called Mark Keith a "fucker". Ignorance is rampant in this world and you, fine citizen, are proof of that fact. Mark Keith has saved more lives than I can imagine, he has HONORABLY served in the US Army, and basically he has done more than the author of that comment could ever imagine or achieve.
The Keiths are wonderful, caring people. I am grateful for their generosity ang overall concern for others.
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TO the bold citizen that called Mark Keith a "fucker". Ignorance is rampant in this world and you, fine citizen, are proof of that fact. Mark Keith has saved more lives than I can imagine, he has HONORABLY served in the US Army, and basically he has done more than the author of that comment could ever imagine or achieve.
The Keiths are wonderful, caring people. I am grateful for their generosity ang overall concern for others.
Cool. Can you then explain why Mark (and RC) have been cited by ORS for repeat violations? If Mark is such a caring and honorable guy, why is he taking patients from HLA and providing "paperwork free" "interventions" at RC? Why are there outstanding citations for abuse at RC? Why were the abuses never reported by Mr. Keith? Why is food withheld at RC? Why are there not proper records? There are a lot of questions surrounding Mr. Keith - ones that I should hope he will have to account for.
If this is what you call "caring" and "honorable" then I'd hate to see what you call "incompetent" and "abusive."
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Let me preface this with saying that I really like Mark Keith and I think he has done an amazing job at transforming many kids life in a positive way. That being said, Mark does not look good on paper. He often has his own way of doing things that does not fit into what you would call "traditional therapy". If you break it down within the system beuracratic rules he does not look good and I am sure he couldn't care less. When he has a kid sent to him who has beaten the hell out of some student at HLA with a lock in a sock (one of those innapropriate HLA placements) Mark makes of point of making that kids life a living hell for a few days, and I have no problem with that. No ammount of traditional therapy is going to help a kid like that. If it would help, it would've helped long before that point. So my point is...yes, Mark Keith looks like a non caring to son of a bitch to people who want to paint him in that light and I am sure he doesn't care. My point is also that Mark has reached some kids that teams of traditional counselors never could.
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I beat up someone and had to deal with Mark Keith... There is no excuse for "worthless little fucker" and "Why my parents should have thrown me away" and Why he should "rip off my head and shit down my throat"
Do you see my point? Good...
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TO the bold citizen that called Mark Keith a "fucker". Ignorance is rampant in this world and you, fine citizen, are proof of that fact. Mark Keith has saved more lives than I can imagine, he has HONORABLY served in the US Army, and basically he has done more than the author of that comment could ever imagine or achieve.
The Keiths are wonderful, caring people. I am grateful for their generosity ang overall concern for others.
Spoken like a true cheerleader. The FACT remains that Mr. Keith allowed and even participated in behavior that is not appropriate in a JCAHO accredited facility. Hence the ORS findings. To my knowledge this thread isn't about his personality, simply is ethics and ability to function in his lead role at RCI. His HONORABLE service in the US Army while admirable has no relevance or bearing here. Stick with the facts not feelings. With that said I don't really condone calling him a "fucker" either. Again, fact vs. feeling.
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Let me preface this with saying that I really like Mark Keith and I think he has done an amazing job at transforming many kids life in a positive way. That being said, Mark does not look good on paper. He often has his own way of doing things that does not fit into what you would call "traditional therapy". If you break it down within the system beuracratic rules he does not look good and I am sure he couldn't care less. When he has a kid sent to him who has beaten the hell out of some student at HLA with a lock in a sock (one of those innapropriate HLA placements) Mark makes of point of making that kids life a living hell for a few days, and I have no problem with that. No ammount of traditional therapy is going to help a kid like that. If it would help, it would've helped long before that point. So my point is...yes, Mark Keith looks like a non caring to son of a bitch to people who want to paint him in that light and I am sure he doesn't care. My point is also that Mark has reached some kids that teams of traditional counselors never could.
Does the kid you described belong at HLA?
"Locks in socks" is a little more than ODD and low self-esteem. That isn't even hazing, it's assault with a deadly weapon.
They called those "sock parties" at my older son's military school- the one sued for abuse and lack of adequate adult supervision. And those hoodlums only used bar soap.
Are "sternum rubs" part of the non-traditional 'therapy' he provides? Or a new massage technique?
Now, that's an idea, nothing like a massage to melt tensions and frustration, to build closeness and trust. Perhaps they should add that to their 'therapeutic' techniques. I imagine that the majority of the kids there are touch deprived. If not before, certainly after they arrive. They could start by putting Keith in charge of the (((hug and rub))) team- every kid gets a minimum of 3 hugs a day, and a good firm foot rub while Keith spins Mt Ranger war tales, just like grandpa.
I disagree that the only way to reach an angry, hopeless kid is through physical and verbal assault. That's barbaric and antiquated thinking. Love and reasonable limits. Institutions can't provide the former, or the latter for that matter. It's like everyday is crisis management cause they're dealing with a bunch of anger kids warehoused and none of them getting their 'real' needs met.
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Hugs and Rubs?
Oh Jesus.
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Deborah,
No the kid mentioned did not belong at HLA and Buccellato knew it. He had no business being there at all. The kid had also been through a ton of therapy before coming to HLA and none of it worked. He could not go home because he would have been a danger to his family. He really needed to be in prison. I have no problem with him getting a dose of Mark Keith since everything else had failed and the next option would have been jail for a very long time. Obviously Mark's way of doing things is not best for all kids. He would be the first to tell you that. But when you have certain kids, usually ones who should have never been at HLA in the first place, that all other options have failed other than jail then I think he is very effective. For those kids, the time for love and limits is gone. Again, this is a very small ammount of kids, but there are some that are in that position.
And yes, I think Dr. Buccellato sent kids on interventions that had no business going on one. It was an easy out for Len much of the time.
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Well gosh it almost sounds like you're describing "tough love".
Now where have we heard that phrase before?
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Deborah,
No the kid mentioned did not belong at HLA and Buccellato knew it. He had no business being there at all. The kid had also been through a ton of therapy before coming to HLA and none of it worked. He could not go home because he would have been a danger to his family.
A danger to his family, so they stick him in a warehouse with with kids with low self-esteem and ODD?
He really needed to be in prison. I have no problem with him getting a dose of Mark Keith since everything else had failed and the next option would have been jail for a very long time. Obviously Mark's way of doing things is not best for all kids. He would be the first to tell you that. But when you have certain kids, usually ones who should have never been at HLA in the first place, that all other options have failed other than jail then I think he is very effective. For those kids, the time for love and limits is gone.
So, what is Keith's method? Was it "effective"? What happened to the kid?
Was this the one who left to do jail time and returned to finish?
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I wouldn't really call his method "tough love". I would say that he is best with kids who are a step away from jail and what he does is shows them how miserable life can be if they don't make a decision to let someone help them through whatever they need help with. He is not there to do therapy as much as he is there to motivate them to give the therapy offered to them a try.
I know of no studies that supports his way of doing things. Then again, I don't know of any studies that support any way of helping kids that get to that point. I do know that the kids that get to that point don't have much else to lose. The odds of helping any of them at that point are very small.
No. It is not the student that went to jail and came back.
The student I am talking about ended up going to another placement. I believe a lock down. HLA dismissed him. I don't know how he did after that.
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Jesus that was retarded. Of course there's no studies that support his way of doing things. I can practically guarantee you it just makes things worse.
What do you think is going to happen when you express that kind of hatred at kids? Do you think they're going to say "well maybe I am a worthless shit"? Maybe the more passive kids, the ones that had no psychological problems at all before they got in there, will think that (and only really start hating you some time after they get out), but do you really think that's going to work on some serious hardcase?
No, what you're going to get is someone who hates you more than he cares about himself. Of course that kid ended up being even more misanthropic to the point where not even HLA could handle him. What the hell did you expect? You practically spooned rage down his throat.
And now that HLA is buckling like a cheap bridge in a hurricane, you're probably looking for a way to inflict this shit on kids somewhere else. Go take up sea urchin juggling instead.
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Then what do you propose you do with the kids who beat the hell out of someone with a metal lock in a sock just for kicks. Remember, he has been through a ton of therapy already from many different counselors. What do you do to change the kid who does this and shows no remorse?
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Then what do you propose you do with the kids who beat the hell out of someone with a metal lock in a sock just for kicks. Remember, he has been through a ton of therapy already from many different counselors. What do you do to change the kid who does this and shows no remorse?
You sure as hell don't put him in a program that isn't trained to handle someone with that type of behavior.
http://www.ridgecreek.org/programoverview.htm (http://www.ridgecreek.org/programoverview.htm)
Who is this program for?
Ridge Creek students represent a broad spectrum of adolescent struggles, ranging from those simply needing to re-focus to those experiencing significant behavioral difficulties. The majority of our students exhibit behaviors that fit the profile of Oppositional Defiant Disorder, though they do not have to be diagnosed as such. Ridge Creek students may struggle with issues of authority and adolescent adjustment. They may exhibit a pattern of negative of negative, hostile, and oppositional defiant behavior. These students lose their temper, argue, actively defy or refuse to comply with adults? rules or requests. They will deliberately ignore people, blame others for their mistakes or misbehavior, are touchy and easily annoyed by others. They also may appear angry, resentful, spiteful, or vindictive. These behaviors significantly impair social, academic or occupational functioning.
Ridge Creek does not accept adjudicated students, or those who are diagnosed with Conduct Disorders or Antisocial Personality Disorders. It is not a ?boot-camp? type program, nor is Ridge Creek designed to substitute for long-term therapeutic interventions.
That's from the horse's mouth so to say.
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It is very sad that people, can have such nasty things to say about, two very wonderful people, I have known Tamara for most of my life and as for Mark ever since they have been married, I have seen him come home upset about a child that needs help and I have heard Tamara cry over some of these lost children. The parents that are posting, get on your knees and thank god your child is still alive and with you. Tamara lost her child and therefore has a deep concern for any child. they are genuine!! caring people!!
I am not saying HLA or RC, should not account for a lot of stuff, but put the blame where it needs to be.
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(This reply is to the guest at the end of page 2)
What do I do? I hire him. I have uses for kids like that.
You're from HLA so you don't have any business saying that he already had therapy. What he needs is real therapy, not HLA therapy. A way to work off his violent urges without actually killing anyone, and possibly a mentor who's been in his position and can absorb his hatred without reflecting it. Alternatively we can tie you to a stake and let him beat the hell out of you. I think that'd make him (and the rest of us) feel a lot better.
That and a good, solid MRI scan and possibly some antipsychotics.
But really, what's the point in using real psychiatric techniques when you can just dismiss him as incurable when your bullshit has the opposite effect?
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I didn't mean therapy at HLA. I meant a lot of therapy BEFORE HLA that did no good. I started this out saying that he should not have been there in the first place. This kid was too far gone for HLA. If you want to hire people like that, be my guest. The "just give them a fair chance and things will work out" approach will not work on kids like this. If want to do then go ahead, but I hope you have insurance. You will need it.
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You misunderstand the nature of what I'd like to hire him for, but that's okay. (Think: What would someone with my name presumably want a kid like that to DO? Additional hint: You don't know irony or sarcasm when you see them.)
Again, you're not qualified to say that he had suitable therapy. The "we tried everything" line is heard all over this board, and it's almost always crap. You wouldn't even know what therapy is. You're too busy shoving a screaming nutjob like Mark Keith.. hold up a sec. Let me make my position clear, as it directly derives from the statements of the known non-shills on this board.
Mark Keith is a screaming nutjob.
Shoving someone like that into a violent kid's face is just going to make things worse, and you can't acknowledge that simple fact.
Odds are, there's something organically wrong with him (Mark Keith or the kid? Both!) that no one ever bothered to diagnose. Has anyone taken a serious look at his brain? Looked for deep-seated triggers in his psyche? Do you even know what makes him angry or why he doesn't care about other people? Of course not. Odds are no one at HLA does. You passed him to.. a real psychiatric facility? Probably not. I'm guessing you passed him to somewhere else that isn't going to care, either.
But you'll continue to spew bullshit on this board about how telling kids that they're worthless is going to make them somehow more amenable to HLA "therapy".
Don't bother.
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It is very sad that people, can have such nasty things to say about, two very wonderful people, I have known Tamara for most of my life and as for Mark ever since they have been married, I have seen him come home upset about a child that needs help and I have heard Tamara cry over some of these lost children. The parents that are posting, get on your knees and thank god your child is still alive and with you. Tamara lost her child and therefore has a deep concern for any child. they are genuine!! caring people!!
I am not saying HLA or RC, should not account for a lot of stuff, but put the blame where it needs to be.
Give it a rest. Nobody cares if the Keith's are good people or not. It just doesn't matter.
What does matter, however, is that Mr. Keith is unqualified to hold his position and has demonstrated this fact by being repeatedly cited by ORS for violations that any first year psych student would have gotten right.
Let's face the facts, shall we? Mark Keith is incompetent, and RCF is legally liable for his failure to meet basic care standards. He has no business being in the business - he simply doesn't meet muster.
Get him out of there and get someone in who at least meets the minimum standards set by law. Mark is woefully inadequate for the job.
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Is this all you have to do, is sit around and talk about people you know nothing about?
You need to get your facts straight before you start talking such nonsense
Get back to your original battle, whatever that may be!!
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Is this all you have to do, is sit around and talk about people you know nothing about?
I want you to get your facts straight before you start talking such nonsense
Get back to your original battle, whatever that may be!!
Hey, I have my facts straight. I think everyone knows that Mark Keith is and abusive man and shouldn't be allowed around kids. I have had first hand experience with this man, and he is evil. I am talking about someone I know stuff about...
Your points aren't so valid anymore, are they?
-FLCLcowdude
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Well you must have been a very hateful, disrespectful child.
How funny that you say he shouldn't be let around kids when he has raised his own very well.
You must of just had a life you felt like throwing away. And thats how you ended up at RC in the first place. With the EVIL MAN!!
Maybe one day you will find peace in your life!! It is sad to let anger take so much of your energy.
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Well you must have been a very hateful, disrespectful child.
How funny that you say he shouldn't be let around kids when he has raised his own very well.
You must of just had a life you felt like throwing away. And thats how you ended up at RC in the first place. With the EVIL MAN!!
Maybe one day you will find peace in your life!! It is sad to let anger take so much of your energy.
Wow - aren't you a prize?
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"YAWN"
Is this all you have to do, is sit around and talk about people you know nothing about?
I want you to get your facts straight before you start talking such nonsense
Get back to your original battle, whatever that may be!!
First there was this.......
Well you must have been a very hateful, disrespectful child.
How funny that you say he shouldn't be let around kids when he has raised his own very well.
You must of just had a life you felt like throwing away. And thats how you ended up at RC in the first place. With the EVIL MAN!!
Maybe one day you will find peace in your life!! It is sad to let anger take so much of your energy.
Followed up by this....
Lady do you not see your own blatent hypocricy? You admonish him for talking about someone he knows nothing about (when apparently he knows him all to well) and then you turn immediatly around and attack someone YOU know nothing about. Once again typical staff behavior. You also make the point that he needs to get back to his original battle. LADY THIS IS THE ORIGINAL BATTLE Pointing out dangerous situations at these places, and the dangerous people who work there.
Why dont you prove your point another way. Tell us, what exactly is the purpose of Ridge Creek and how is Mark qualified to run it? Also why are there so many violations filed against him if he's doing such a bang up job?
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Not a coward?.
Tamara Keith ? ex-school communicator and wife of Mark Keith.[/quote]
If you are stupid enough to believe that this was really Mrs. Keith, you should be on this site. This would be the kiss of death and termination for Mark. She is not that big of an idiot.
The trolls start again.
HMMMMMMM who could this be
Think hard and you can watch it grow
The real poster is
Corky Prow.
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Now why would the business cordinator feel the need to pretend to be Mrs. Keith and defend Mark when prior to that point he hadnt been a focus of attention?
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Of course is was Tamara you poor un-educated soul.
209
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Not a coward?.
Tamara Keith ? ex-school communicator and wife of Mark Keith.
If you are stupid enough to believe that this was really Mrs. Keith, you should be on this site. This would be the kiss of death and termination for Mark. She is not that big of an idiot.
The trolls start again.
HMMMMMMM who could this be
Think hard and you can watch it grow
The real poster is
Corky Prow.
I don't think that she would do that. She has too much class, well at least that I know of...
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Don't be so niave she is the one who handles the financials/money with the parents and threatens them when needed in getting Len's money. I have heard her myself.
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i know for a fact that this is NOT corky prow!! i do believe this to be Tamara Keith...
first off...if not for Corky, most of the folks that have received refunds or their money back in any way they would not have...she has kept the "kids" money safe and secure making certain that when they get back from visits...as long as the money got to her...that it got credited to the child's account...if not for her that money would be long gone and trust me...it adds up!
as for the threats, etc...she is doing her job...
you can't think that everyone who works/ed there is a tyrant, some of the folks are actually there trying their best to make sure that the parents don't get a raw deal money wise...i know it is a hard pill to swallow...but she really does work very hard to make sure that what she has promised is what happens...
remember some of the folks there, even though they were in a place like that, did their best to make it as good for the kids as they could...we realized that things were going awry (sp) and still tried and got in trouble and some fired for advocating for the kids and their parents when we thought we could help, fix or just in general make less painless...
so say what you will, i know corky did not write that post!
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Of course is was Tamara you poor un-educated soul.
Too funny. While trying to personally attack someone's intelligence level, you post this nonsense. "Of course is was"? "Un-educated"? You need a lot of help. This is obvious projection from an uneducated poster.
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Well you must have been a very hateful, disrespectful child.
How funny that you say he shouldn't be let around kids when he has raised his own very well.
You must of just had a life you felt like throwing away. And thats how you ended up at RC in the first place. With the EVIL MAN!!
Maybe one day you will find peace in your life!! It is sad to let anger take so much of your energy.
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. "When all else fails blame the child." This poster is typical of program supporters. They say "don't judge!" and immediately judge others like this fool did.
Get to debating the issues or get lost.
Facts: Mark Keith is responsible for running RCF. Under Mark's lead RCF has been cited for scores of violations and some are repeat violations for the same offenses. Mark Keith is incompetent and needs to look for new work that doesn't involve caring for others or any moral/professional judgements. He does not have the requisite skills or cognitive horsepower to do the job. Get him out of there and get someone who is professionally competent to do the job.
It ain't that deep.
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Why has ORS allowed this man to hold the position of Director/Adm? Did they check credentials? Why wasn't this cited as a violation?
The Administrator or Exec Director is supposed to have a Masters degree and a minimum of 3 years of increasingly responsible experience in the human service, mental health or health care field
OR a Bachelors plus 5 years experience in child care, human services, mental health, and at least 2 in a supervisory or adm position.
Didn't see anything about Military experience.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p= ... ith#187245 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=187245&highlight=keith#187245)
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I may be wrong here, but I think Mark's position was more like what Bill Gray at HLA. He was in charge of operations, not the clinical director. David Jordan was the clinical director. I have no idea who took that role on once he left.
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I don't think so. That sounds like this position:
The staff member with primary responsibility for planning, developing, implementing treatment services, supervising staff who deliver the treatment and ancillary services, and developing in-service training shall have a master's degree in psychology, social work, education or other related fields and experience and/or training in working with children in an outdoor therapeutic environment.
Which sounds like Jordan/Sorrells position.
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I may be wrong here, but I think Mark's position was more like what Bill Gray at HLA. He was in charge of operations, not the clinical director. David Jordan was the clinical director. I have no idea who took that role on once he left.
Bill Gray had almost no day to day involvement with the students. You hardly ever saw him unless he happened to be moving from one point of campus to the other, or if you were in the admin building. Someone who has no involvement with the kids would not neccesarily need to have qualifications for dealing with kids.
This is apparently a far cry from Mark Keith. According to these reports and by the very addmission of HLA apologist, Mark was heavily involved in each childs stay at Ridge Creek.
Not the same as Bill Gray by any means.
So again how was Mark Keith qualified for his position?
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I apologize. I wasn't clear. I meant that he does many of the jobs that Bill Gray did in terms of operations. Of course he is more involved with the kids that Bill was. The point I was making was that I don't think he was clinical director. He was quick to admit that he is not a counselor and according to ORS he probably had no business being out there. I just know of a lot of kids who credit him for turning him around.
We all know that Len could care less about meeting ORS requirements. I think that is probably a big reason why David Jordan left.
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So again how is he qualified and what is the purpose of Ridge Creek?
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All I am saying is that I think he is good at the job he has been asked to do. He is not qualified to be a counselor. RCI should not be doing Interventions. To me, he is qualified to attempt to motivate the kids who have no other option left but to go to jail. That's it.
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Anyone is qualified to "try" anything. The point is that there should be someone there who knows how to do it, not try to do it.
Get him out of there and get somebody qualified and able. He just doesn't cut it.
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All I am saying is that I think he is good at the job he has been asked to do. He is not qualified to be a counselor. RCI should not be doing Interventions. To me, he is qualified to attempt to motivate the kids who have no other option left but to go to jail. That's it.
Okay so we've established then that Mark is not qualified to be dealing with these kids.
Great let's move on.
The next question is since he's not qualified what is he doing there and why was he hired?
Also you still havent answered as to what the true purpose of Ridge Creek is?
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what the true purpose of Ridge Creek is?
To punish children. It's really that simple. To punish kids whose parents are unhappy with them and to punish kids acting out at HLA.
I've no idea why we run around in circles with this question. It's a very, very simple concept. RCF is a conformity factory, nothing more, nothing less.
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I beat up someone and had to deal with Mark Keith... There is no excuse for "worthless little fucker" and "Why my parents should have thrown me away" and Why he should "rip off my head and shit down my throat"
Do you see my point? Good...
What were you there for in the first place you whiny little bitch. You are a bunch of self pitying little punks who are used to being the intimidators and can't handle it when your intimidation tactics don't work with real men. Sometimes it takes a wake up call to get your attention. Get it? Good. The spreading out of meals throughout many smaller meals is not withholding food. There were more calories offered during these events than the students got when not on intervention. It was just spread out throughout the day. Water was never withheld from the students and they were constantly monitored. I never worked for HLA and could give a shit about the company. Regarding DHR, find a company that has existed for a few years that is regulated by them that does not have violations on their record. There are definitely real questions about HLA that will be played out but stop your fucking whining about everything little thing that has hurt your feelings you hypocrit.
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You see parents, the staff at Ridge Creek is just as caring and well trained as the staff at Hidden Lake. If little Johnny runs his mouth to you, send his rebellious ass over to us. We'll either straighten him out, or kill him. For a mere three grand a month (no ammenities included) we'll threaten bodily harm, and abuse your child at no additional cost to you. Our patented abuse tactics aren't shown to accomplish anything, but they sure are fun! The thing to consider is that even psychopaths have bills to pay, and they need good American jobs in order to do so. That's where Ridge Creek comes in, providing jobs for whackos since 2001. You can learn more about Ridge Creek through the link found on our sister company's website Hidden Lake Academy. Or you could simply go to the DHR website for the state of Georgia and view the numerous violations we racked up in a period of less than six months. But hey, what company doesnt have a few? Am I right or am I right? I'm right.
Please swing by beautiful Dahlonega and visit our facility, it's located right at the foot of the Appalachian Trail, the same area where the acclaimed film "Deliverance" was shot. Many of the extras still hang around, so you know it's safe. Feel free to bring little Johnny along for the tour, so long as he has a check pinned to his shirt.
*No psychological or medical evaluation required, we'll take anyone.
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I beat up someone and had to deal with Mark Keith... There is no excuse for "worthless little fucker" and "Why my parents should have thrown me away" and Why he should "rip off my head and shit down my throat"
Do you see my point? Good...
What were you there for in the first place you whiny little bitch. You are a bunch of self pitying little punks who are used to being the intimidators and can't handle it when your intimidation tactics don't work with real men. Sometimes it takes a wake up call to get your attention. Get it? Good. The spreading out of meals throughout many smaller meals is not withholding food. There were more calories offered during these events than the students got when not on intervention. It was just spread out throughout the day. Water was never withheld from the students and they were constantly monitored. I never worked for HLA and could give a shit about the company. Regarding DHR, find a company that has existed for a few years that is regulated by them that does not have violations on their record. There are definitely real questions about HLA that will be played out but stop your fucking whining about everything little thing that has hurt your feelings you hypocrit.
Ah oh Cowdude, looks like you've angered the Ranger's friend.
There are 10 Therapeutic Outdoor Camps licensed in Ga. Their inspection reports are at:
http://www.ors.dhr.state.ga.us/facsearchs.asp (http://www.ors.dhr.state.ga.us/facsearchs.asp)
RC holds the record. Next would be Inner Harbour Hosp's Excel program.
This one, from an investigation at Eckerd was a doozy....
Based on surveyor review of agency records and interviews
with the Director and a camper it is determined that a staff
person used unapproved forms of discipline with the campers.
On more than one occasion the staff person choked the
campers, threw them to the ground and verbally abused them by
threatening to physically harm them and to take away home stay
privileges. The staff person involved had been the subject of
previous investigations, but nothing could ever be confirmed
because the campers, who were afraid of what the staff might do
to them if they told on the staff, denied mistreatment and covered for the staff.
I spoke too soon...Many more such (and worse) industry stories of "whiny bitches meet real men" in the woods. Lots of inappropriate placements, one having to do with sexual behavior, physical abuses, and denied medical attention, inadequate training, blah, blah, blah.
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oh...and...where there used to be no extra charge if you went from hla to rci there is now!!
there is a tuition fee AND a clothing fee totalling about 2800 i think...AND you are still responsible for your HLA monthly tuition!
gotta love that!
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What? You didnt know that real men pay for things they cannot use. If you weren't such a whiney little bitch throwing a pity party you'd know that. But no youre too busy being used to being able to get away with only paying for services that are actually provided! Here's a wake up call to get your attention! WAKE UP!
Now...
stop your fucking whining about everything little thing that has hurt your feelings you hypocrit.
crybaby.
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Regarding DHR, find a company that has existed for a few years that is regulated by them that does not have violations on their record
Here you go dumbass......enjoy!
http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facs ... =CCI001307 (http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facsum.jsp?varFACID=CCI001307)
http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facs ... =CCI001548 (http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facsum.jsp?varFACID=CCI001548)
http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facs ... =CCI001404 (http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facsum.jsp?varFACID=CCI001404)
http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facs ... =CCI001414 (http://167.193.144.170:7001/ORSINV/facsum.jsp?varFACID=CCI001414)
Is that enough? That was about seven mins of research just perusing through the A's. Would you like me to add more to the list or have you been sufficently made to feel like the idiot you truly are?
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i am confused...the links were just filings with no charges levied...am i being dumb cause i am not sure what the reason for that was...just asking...
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Oh no not at all. You see our friendly militant psychopath Ridge Creek staffer claimed that no company monitered by DHR was without violations found by inspections.
I was just proving him wrong.
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ah...okay, i understand!
thanks!
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FLCOWDUDE OR WHATEVER
who are you? werent you in 83? i was in 80 im just curious cause you sound like a fag.
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Don't we all love the typical HLA insults... Fag, Queer, etc. The list goes on. Just because someone talks about HLA and you are just too much of a "Man" to think that they don't have a valid point. That doesn't mean you have to try to go trolling on the forum where almost everyone agrees with what I am saying. You try to hard...
-FLCLcowdude
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Inner Harbour is truly a hell hole, it makes RCI look like club med.
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FLCOWDUDE OR WHATEVER
who are you? werent you in 83? i was in 80 im just curious cause you sound like a fag.
Yeah....its amazing how to ed cons and parents they claim we arent interested in "honest discussion" meanwhile behind what they believe to be anonimity they behave like this.
Followed by claiming we are all disrespectful and angry.
Then again it just be a coincidence that all of these trolls have IP addresses connecting them to the areas between Dahlonega and Atlanta.
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Don't you just hate that?
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FLCOWDUDE OR WHATEVER
who are you? werent you in 83? i was in 80 im just curious cause you sound like a fag.
Yeah....its amazing how to ed cons and parents they claim we arent interested in "honest discussion" meanwhile behind what they believe to be anonimity they behave like this.
Followed by claiming we are all disrespectful and angry.
Then again it just be a coincidence that all of these trolls have IP addresses connecting them to the areas between Dahlonega and Atlanta.
Don't get too high on your horse. Just as recently as this week there have been violent comments from folks on your side toward folks on the HLA side. Both sides on this site have their petty moments. And, by the way, the violent comment was unprovoked. He simply disagreed with what was being said. So, Robert, your claim that people are treated well if they treat others well on this site is not always true.
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Well you can make vauge references if you like but perhaps it would be better if you could provide a link to this alleged unprovoked attack.
Further its not as if any angry comments from HLA survivors towards HLA apologist are unwarrented anyway.
You people deserve much much worse.
But please by all means post your link.
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Here is the quote from Mr. Penal, one of you regular contributors as of late. This is actually from this thread. Page three I believe.
"Alternatively we can tie you to a stake and let him beat the hell out of you. I think that'd make him (and the rest of us) feel a lot better."
When he says "we" he is presumably speaking for the others on this thread with similar views. Do you support him saying this?
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you guys confuse me!! and i don't consider myself stupid...
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Here is the quote from Mr. Penal, one of you regular contributors as of late. This is actually from this thread. Page three I believe.
"Alternatively we can tie you to a stake and let him beat the hell out of you. I think that'd make him (and the rest of us) feel a lot better."
When he says "we" he is presumably speaking for the others on this thread with similar views. Do you support him saying this?
Wow. All I can say is "wow." You, poster who thinks this is an "unprovoked threat of violence," are a moron. If you think anyone's true aim is to tie someone to a stake and beat them, then you really need some help.
You are grasping at straws to try to erode credibility from HLA whistle-blowers, but the fact remains that HLA is a crooked business and you've done nothing to erode that notion. Stop trying to shift the focus and stick to the issues of fraud, neglect and abuse - thats what it's all about: fraud, neglect and abuse not some kid's hyperbole or flight of fancy.
The provable, concrete issues are fraud, neglect and abuse.
I hope you now understand.
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Did he or did he not threaten violence?
Do you support this violent threat?
Answer the questions. Stop trying to avoid the questions.
Sound familiar Robert?
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Did he or did he not threaten violence?
Do you support this violent threat?
Answer the questions. Stop trying to avoid the questions.
Sound familiar Robert?
Listen, dummy. I'll explain this again. It was a remark that was a flight of fancy, hyperbole and intended as a joke. OK? Go back and read other MGDP posts and you will see that this is a style of writing, not a style of life.
Did he "threaten violence"? No, he did not. If he did, nobody here would support that.
Once again, the issues being discussed in this thread are abuse, neglect and fraud, HLA style. This is the topic, not some guy's proclivities surrounding creative writing. Get it straight: ABUSE, FRAUD and NEGLECT by HLA and it's staff members[/b] is the topic of this thread.
Let's get back on track. Mark Keith is an incompetent,is unqualified by law to be the director of RCF and has allegedly personally abused children both verbally and physically in addition to neglecting to secure proper medical treatment for incidents as serious as ATTEMPTED SUICIDE on his watch.
The poster obsessed with MGDP's statements has some serious problems with understanding relative severity of events. Some kid posting on a message board pales in comparison to the behavior of Mr. Mark Keith and RCF/HLA.
Do you now understand, dummy? If not (and this is not a threat of violence), you should be beaten about the head and neck repeatedly until unconsciousness results because you are just that dumb.
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Robert Bruce has repeatedly stated on this site that if you come to these discussions respectfully, you will be treated with respect. I have done that. I have not disrespected anyone. What I have received in return is threats/wishes of violence and name calling. Is that what you support on this web site Robert? Answer the question.
BTW...I hope to God that you can tell that I am merely making a point about Robert Bruce and how he interacts with others on this site.
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Robert Bruce has repeatedly stated on this site that if you come to these discussions respectfully, you will be treated with respect. I have done that. I have not disrespected anyone. What I have received in return is threats/wishes of violence and name calling. Is that what you support on this web site Robert? Answer the question.
BTW...I hope to God that you can tell that I am merely making a point about Robert Bruce and how he interacts with others on this site.
If that's the case, take it up with him via PM. Stop gumming up the board with your inanities. We're concerned with facts about HLA/RCF surrounding fraud, neglect and abuse, not some pissing contest between you and Robert.
Be an adult, stop playing "gotcha" with Robert and PM him with your concerns.
It disturbs me deeply that this type of person is the type dealing with children at HLA, yet is totally inept at conflict resolution or even adult behavior for that matter. You are only buttressing the impression that incompetent, immature people work at/support HLA/RCF.
Comport yourself in accordance with adult norms, please.
Being in the behavior modification business, you should have learned long, long ago that the quickest, surest way to extinguish behaviors that are undesirable or maladaptive is to ignore them. It's a proven scientific fact that this is so.
It also illuminates the underpinnings of HLA/RCF's "programs" which are based on confrontation and punishment - it doesn't work there, and it sure as hell won't work here.
Grow up and join the rest of us in reality.
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No. I will not take it up with him on PM, because he does not do it on PM (at least not exclusively). You are getting bent out of shape with me doing the EXACT same thing that Robert does on this site. Why don't you tell him to stop as well? I will stop this rediculous argument when Robert answers the question:
Do you support the unprovoked violent threats on this site?
Just answer the question Robert.
Also, if the best way to stop an unwanted behavior is to ignore it then why do you keep responding to me?
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are RCF and RCI the same place?
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are RCF and RCI the same place?
Yes. Sorry for the confusion. I've heard it referred to as "Ridge Creek Facility."
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No. I will not take it up with him on PM, because he does not do it on PM (at least not exclusively). You are getting bent out of shape with me doing the EXACT same thing that Robert does on this site. Why don't you tell him to stop as well? I will stop this rediculous argument when Robert answers the question:
Do you support the unprovoked violent threats on this site?
Just answer the question Robert.
Also, if the best way to stop an unwanted behavior is to ignore it then why do you keep responding to me?
You, my friend, are a dope. Plain and simple.
You are the reason why HLA/RCF don't work. You clearly, demonstrably do not understand how to deal with conflict.
Parents, this is the type of idiot that will be browbeating your kid daily until they admit that they allowed themselves to be raped, that they are awful human beings, that their parents no longer want them, that they are "worthless fuckers," etc.
Familiarize yourselves with the approach and the continuing insistence on using a tactics that simply don't bear fruit - confrontation and punishment. It'll only cost you $6k/mo to have a moron like this take out his/her shortcomings on your kid all day every day until your child is a broken shell of his/her former self.
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All I am doing is showing you what Robert does on a regular basis.
BTW...I don't work at RCI or HLA. When I did work at HLA I certainly didn't take this approach. Why would you assume that me responding to rediculous comments on a web site is the same way I would talk to kids that are in need of help. I have confindence that you have a broader scope of reality than that.
You and I are actually on the same page with this. I disagree with Robert when he continually does this kind of crap. All he needs to do is answer the question and I will stop.
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Have you stopped beating your wife?
(The answer in this case is "probably not", now that you don't have kids at HLA to take it out on.)
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"YAWN"
The difference is I badger people to back up their own comments or views not others.
Let's do a little quid pro quo though before we go into anything else.
You claimed this....
Robert Bruce has repeatedly stated on this site that if you come to these discussions respectfully, you will be treated with respect. I have done that. I have not disrespected anyone
Prove it.
Allow us to link up your comments and prove that you have been respectfull. If you have, and you were truly were treated unfairly than I will apologize and acknolwedge I was wrong.
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You are not answering the question Robert. Do you support people threatening violence on this web site or not? It is an easy question to answer. A simple yes or no. I can't imagine why in the world this would be so difficult to answer.
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Oh it's not. It's just your claim is contingent upon whether or not you were respectfull to others.
If you've been honest and forthright the entire time you've been posting here than you have nothing to fear. If on the other hand you've played typical HLA apologist games, harrassing people, trolling, and being DISrespectfull then you would of course deserved any similar treatment you may have received.
It's a simple choice and its up to you.
Allow us to link up your post and prove your claim.
Or don't and continue to whine about...whatever.
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I'm fairly sure the post-linking bit went out with the last version of the forum.
I have no problem with [a kid with a mental problem] getting a dose of Mark Keith
I can be more offensive than that, but only when I work at it.
I've noticed he didn't answer the question. Hey programmie, have you stopped beating your wife?
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Oh so you can't do it on the new forum? Hmm hang on let me run and ask Deb.
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In the meantime.....
If we can still link the post up will you allow us to do it?
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I fail to see why we need its permission for anything.
This is where you and I diverge, Robert. My position, based on experience with a number of different programmies, is that treating them with any respect at all will neither get you the answers we seek (e.g. the reason why someone unqualified was hired and who decided that allowing someone like that to scream in kids' faces was okay) nor create meaningful discussion.
It isn't here to discuss anything. It's here to try to fulfill its sadistic desires online, take verbal revenge on the ones pointing out the flaws of its beloved institution and co-workers (particularly when the flaws are pointed out to government agencies), and hopefully make us say something we'll regret.
I for one regret nothing except the fact that I haven't been nastier.
Provoke it enough and it might end up like the Ninja Turtles on the other thread.
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Milk check your PM's.
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You are not answering the question Robert. Do you support people threatening violence on this web site or not? It is an easy question to answer. A simple yes or no. I can't imagine why in the world this would be so difficult to answer.
NO. Nobody here supports the use of violence or threats of violence. We say it all the time. I'll say it again: We do not support the use of or threat of violence.
Now run along. Go bang your head on another rock for a few hours.
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And when the accusations come from someone who really does support insane people hurting children (in that thing called real life, not basically impossible situations posted on a messageboard), it only looks more ridiculous.
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Also, if the best way to stop an unwanted behavior is to ignore it then why do you keep responding to me?
I'm not here to muzzle anyone. I personally believe that the more you share about yourself, the more you impugn HLA, its staff and its methods. So, please, keep on sharing. I've always been about letting you hang yourselves, and, since you all have done it time and again - whenever presented with the opportunity - the approach obviously works. Please, continue.
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Yeah Chris why so quiet?
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Oh it's not. It's just your claim is contingent upon whether or not you were respectfull to others.
If you've been honest and forthright the entire time you've been posting here than you have nothing to fear. If on the other hand you've played typical HLA apologist games, harrassing people, trolling, and being DISrespectfull then you would of course deserved any similar treatment you may have received.
It's a simple choice and its up to you.
Allow us to link up your post and prove your claim.
Or don't and continue to whine about...whatever.
Just look back on this thread. There were no rude remarks made to Penal by me and he made a violent comment. Why can't you admit that sometimes posters are not given the same respect they show others and let everyone know that you do not support violent comments on this site?
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"These truths we hold to be self evident..."
It's a message board, fella. People say things. If we were to go around being the morals/fairness police, that's all we'd do. If you can't handle the realities of unstructured, uncensored, unmoderated fora, I'd suggest you stop coming by and inflicting angst upon yourself. It's really not good for you.
Once again, this is not HLA and nobody has to answer to you for anything, ever. You can't isolate us, you can't punish us and you can't dictate the agenda. Get over it or move on.
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Just look back on this thread. There were no rude remarks made to Penal by me and he made a violent comment. Why can't you admit that sometimes posters are not given the same respect they show others and let everyone know that you do not support violent comments on this site?
Why should I? Espically since you won't step up to the plate and acknowledge who you are.
Add that to the fact that you did a bit of careful editing that anyone with half a brain can see.
(This reply is to the guest at the end of page 2)
What do I do? I hire him. I have uses for kids like that.
You're from HLA so you don't have any business saying that he already had therapy. What he needs is real therapy, not HLA therapy. A way to work off his violent urges without actually killing anyone, and possibly a mentor who's been in his position and can absorb his hatred without reflecting it. Alternatively we can tie you to a stake and let him beat the hell out of you. I think that'd make him (and the rest of us) feel a lot better.
That and a good, solid MRI scan and possibly some antipsychotics.
But really, what's the point in using real psychiatric techniques when you can just dismiss him as incurable when your bullshit has the opposite effect?
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"A seven year old? Gargling MILK? How dare she do this in our program! KILL HER! KILL HER NOW!"
You completly ignored Milk's entire comment prior to the statement you perceive as rude. Why is that?
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You misunderstand the nature of what I'd like to hire him for, but that's okay. (Think: What would someone with my name presumably want a kid like that to DO? Additional hint: You don't know irony or sarcasm when you see them.)
Again, you're not qualified to say that he had suitable therapy. The "we tried everything" line is heard all over this board, and it's almost always crap. You wouldn't even know what therapy is. You're too busy shoving a screaming nutjob like Mark Keith.. hold up a sec. Let me make my position clear, as it directly derives from the statements of the known non-shills on this board.
Mark Keith is a screaming nutjob.
Shoving someone like that into a violent kid's face is just going to make things worse, and you can't acknowledge that simple fact.
Odds are, there's something organically wrong with him (Mark Keith or the kid? Both!) that no one ever bothered to diagnose. Has anyone taken a serious look at his brain? Looked for deep-seated triggers in his psyche? Do you even know what makes him angry or why he doesn't care about other people? Of course not. Odds are no one at HLA does. You passed him to.. a real psychiatric facility? Probably not. I'm guessing you passed him to somewhere else that isn't going to care, either.
But you'll continue to spew bullshit on this board about how telling kids that they're worthless is going to make them somehow more amenable to HLA "therapy".
Don't bother.
Your mom is a screaming nutjob. Do you have any idea how idiotic you sound? Your postings deserve just this kind of response.
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Guess which city and state that came from. Go on, guess.
(If your guess wasn't "Dahlonega, Georgia", you haven't been paying attention.)
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Your mom is a screaming nutjob. Do you have any idea how idiotic you sound? Your postings deserve just this kind of response.
Golly I never would have thought that an HLA apologist/staffer would need to resort to "your mom" jokes. I guess Len has hired on a new set of fourth graders to work at HLA.
Parents this is who you're supposed to trust your children with. People who whine and complain about how we have "hateful mindsets" and aren't interested in "honest discussion" yet when it comes right down to it, this is all they can respond with.
"Your mom" jokes.
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FLCOWDUDE OR WHATEVER
who are you? werent you in 83? i was in 80 im just curious cause you sound like a fag.
Yeah....its amazing how to ed cons and parents they claim we arent interested in "honest discussion" meanwhile behind what they believe to be anonimity they behave like this.
Followed by claiming we are all disrespectful and angry.
Then again it just be a coincidence that all of these trolls have IP addresses connecting them to the areas between Dahlonega and Atlanta.
i wasnt trolling or whatever, i really was in pg 80. I really was curious since he said he got sent there for beating someone up, and as far as i remember everyone in 83 was a bitch haha
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Anything you say sport.
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I wasn't sent to HLA for beating someone up...
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Just look back on this thread. There were no rude remarks made to Penal by me and he made a violent comment. Why can't you admit that sometimes posters are not given the same respect they show others and let everyone know that you do not support violent comments on this site?
I'll tell you what. Answer some of the outstanding questions regarding practices at HLA and I'll answer any question regarding our practices on here.
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Okay. List the questions and I will answer them.
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Allright let's start with one of the more current questions.
Why does HLA claim to the state that they are a "Traditional Boarding School", where the primary purpose is education yet advertise as a "Theraputic Boarding School" where the primary purpose is therapy?
Is the primary purpose of HLA education or therapy?
If it is therapy why then do they state otherwise?
If it is education why is therapy mandated for all students?
Why are all students diagnosed with ODD?
Why is a psych evaluation a required part of admission?
Are students still required to "fall out" on each other?
What is the value of this practice?
How are staff members with degrees in Theology or Criminal Justice qualified to work at HLA?
Are students still punished indefinitly until they acknowledge guilt of a crime?
Are there any students currently or in the recent past at HLA who did not need to be there?
Are there any students currently or in the recent past at HLA who needed a more restrictive enviroment?
Is "cookie cutter" therapy effective?
Has there ever been a suicide attempt at HLA?
Can you justify the "bonus" plan for us?
Under that system isn't a counselor under pressure to keep a child in place rather than advise early withdrawl even if the child is better?
I think that's a good start.
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*crickets*
they don't like questions...
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Okay... Here are you answers.
Allright let's start with one of the more current questions.
Why does HLA claim to the state that they are a "Traditional Boarding School", where the primary purpose is education yet advertise as a "Theraputic Boarding School" where the primary purpose is therapy?
***They are trying to get away with playing it both ways. They want the benefits of both. Obviously it is catching up with them.
Is the primary purpose of HLA education or therapy?
***Clearly the purpose of HLA is therapy. HLA just looks stupid to say anything differently. Yes they are a school that has a focus on academics, but their primary focus is most assuredly therapy. What traditional school do you know of that offers eight hours of group therapy. Again, they look foolish to claim anything differently.
If it is therapy why then do they state otherwise?
***I don't know what they gain from stating otherwise. I gues it is so they don't have to follow the guidelines for therepeutic placements.
If it is education why is therapy mandated for all students?
***Education is not the main focus.
Why are all students diagnosed with ODD?
***This has always puzzled me. Clearly all the students are not ODD. I imagine this is just to make it easier in the insurance billing.
Really any kid can be diagnosed with this. It is an easy diagnosis to asign. How many teens are not ODD to some degree?
Why is a psych evaluation a required part of admission?
***Because they are a therapeutic school.
Are students still required to "fall out" on each other?
***Yes.
What is the value of this practice?
***The original intent of this practice was to keep the campus safe. Students were to report knowledge of incidents that would possibly endager another student. Sex, drugs, violence, running away. What it turned in to was a time to tell EVERYTHING you know. Doing fallout to find out who didn't take their shoes off when they entered the dorm is a waste of time, but some counselors do that.
How are staff members with degrees in Theology or Criminal Justice qualified to work at HLA?
***For the most part they are not. I have seen a few that are actually pretty good counselors. The vast majority are not qualified to do counseling with teens.
Are students still punished indefinitly until they acknowledge guilt of a crime?
***No. HLA implemented time limits for restrictions a while ago. Now students just bide their time until they get off. Having said that I am sure there are students who will be able to give stories to the contrary.
Are there any students currently or in the recent past at HLA who did not need to be there?
***Absolutely. There are kids who are too severe to be there and students who are not severe enough to deserve to be there.
Are there any students currently or in the recent past at HLA who needed a more restrictive enviroment?
***Yes.
Is "cookie cutter" therapy effective?
***HLA's curriculum is actually pretty good. I think it could benefit anyone. Counselors who are strictly "by the book" however are not effective. Within the curriculum you have to have the savvy to adjust to the individual needs of each student.
Has there ever been a suicide attempt at HLA?
***Yes.
Can you justify the "bonus" plan for us?
***No. It is unethical. Then again, there are no licensed therapists, so they don't really fall under the ethical guidelines of professional counselors. Either way, it is a bad practice.
Under that system isn't a counselor under pressure to keep a child in place rather than advise early withdrawl even if the child is better?
***There is no specific pressure put on counselors to keep kids. There is definitely an implied pressure with the bonus system.
I think that's a good start.
There you go.
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I never thought I'd live to see the day.....
Well parents there you are honest answers about current issues going on at HLA.
If these dont raise your eyebrows at least nothing else will.
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Would any of the current lapdog puppets care to even try to refute some of these claims?
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i just wonder which lap dog puppet answered those questions...i wonder which one of them finally "got it"...good answers though, appreciate some honesty finally...
Robert...kinda caught YOU by surprise...i could see your jaw drop as i read the answers...like you said, never thought you would see the day!!!
AWESOME!
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F. Lee.....Hunter.....Micheal......Slim?????
Can any of you respond to this slam dunk?
Is there any response at all?
Maybe he's just too busy being told what to say.
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Is this typical of the treatment methods used at HLA? Sternum rubs? Your parents should have thrown you away? Worthless little fucker?
I beat up someone and had to deal with Mark Keith... There is no excuse for "worthless little fucker" and "Why my parents should have thrown me away" and Why he should "rip off my head and shit down my throat"
Do you see my point? Good...
Does the kid you described belong at HLA?
"Locks in socks" is a little more than ODD and low self-esteem. That isn't even hazing, it's assault with a deadly weapon.
They called those "sock parties" at my older son's military school- the one sued for abuse and lack of adequate adult supervision. And those hoodlums only used bar soap.
Are "sternum rubs" part of the non-traditional 'therapy' he provides? Or a new massage technique?
Now, that's an idea, nothing like a massage to melt tensions and frustration, to build closeness and trust. Perhaps they should add that to their 'therapeutic' techniques. I imagine that the majority of the kids there are touch deprived. If not before, certainly after they arrive. They could start by putting Keith in charge of the (((hug and rub))) team- every kid gets a minimum of 3 hugs a day, and a good firm foot rub while Keith spins Mt Ranger war tales, just like grandpa.
I disagree that the only way to reach an angry, hopeless kid is through physical and verbal assault. That's barbaric and antiquated thinking. Love and reasonable limits. Institutions can't provide the former, or the latter for that matter. It's like everyday is crisis management cause they're dealing with a bunch of anger kids warehoused and none of them getting their 'real' needs met.
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Another common 'threat' I've heard is: "I'll cut of your head and shit down your throat", or something like that.