Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Nihilanthic on November 05, 2006, 04:53:16 AM
-
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15517226/ (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15517226/)
Should severely disabled kids be kept small?
6-year-old given hormones to stunt growth so parents can care for her
Updated: 6:23 p.m. ET Nov 1, 2006
NEW YORK - In a report published in a medical journal this month, two doctors describe a 6-year-old girl with profound, irreversible developmental disability who was given high doses of estrogen to permanently halt her growth so that her parents could continue to care for her at home.
The controversial growth-attenuation treatment, which included hysterectomy, was requested by the child's parents and initiated after careful consultation and review by an ethics committee.
In their report in the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, Drs. Daniel F. Gunther and Douglas S. Diekema, both at the University of Washington in Seattle, explain the reasoning behind what they hope will generate a healthy debate. Gunther is at the Division of Pediatric Endocrinology, and Diekema is at the Center for Pediatric Bioethics.
Story continues below ? advertisement
Caring for children with profound developmental disabilities can be difficult and demanding, they note. For children with severe combined neurologic and cognitive impairment who are unable to move without assistance, all the necessities of life ? dressing, bathing, transporting ? must be provided by caregivers, usually parents, and these tasks become increasing difficult, if not impossible, as the child increases in size.
"Achieving permanent growth attenuation while the child is still young and of manageable size would remove one of the major obstacles to family care and might extend the time that parents with the ability, resources, and inclination to care for their child at home might be able to do so," Gunther and Diekema write.
The parents of the 6-year-old, both of whom were college-educated professionals, indicated a strong desire to continue caring for their daughter. Despite having the neurologic development no greater than that of an infant, the 6-year-old responds to her parents and two healthy siblings ? vocalizing and smiling in response to care and affection ? and "clearly is an integral, and much loved, member of the family," the authors note.
After extensive evaluation, the combined opinion of a team of specialists is that the child will have no significant neurologic or cognitive improvements.
Click for related content
Message board: Should parents have the right?
The onset of puberty and continued growth caused concern in the parents about how they would care for their daughter long-term, which they clearly wanted to do. They were concerned about having to turn over care to "strangers" and also about the complications that would arise when the child started menstruating.
The child is now a little more than a year into growth-attenuating therapy and approaching the end of her growth, Gunther and Diekema report. "As of yet, there have been no treatment complications."
The authors feel that growth arresting therapy can be "both ethical and feasible and should be an option available to parents."
The authors of a commentary applaud Gunther and Diekema for publishing this case report, although they believe that attempts to attenuate growth are "ill advised."
Nonetheless, Dr. Jeffrey P. Brosco from the University of Miami and Dr. Chris Feudtner from the University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, say that by beginning the debate, this paper helps to "advance our ethical dialogue as we struggle to define our core values in words, laws, and deeds. Only with further research and public discussion will we learn whether attempts to attenuate growth run with or against our fundamental values in caring for children with profound developmental disabilities."
(c) Reuters 2006. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by caching, framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters and the Reuters sphere logo are registered trademarks and trademarks of the Reuters group of companies around the world.
WHAT THE FUCK?!?!??!
I swear to god, the ability for this to be abused is pretty astonishing... and terrifying.
-
yup ... the potential for abuse IS terrifying, and real controls are in order. that would seem to be one goal in publishing the report - to set standards and controls and not keep things behind closed doors. nobody seemed to be treating this likely, and all seemed interested in helping the kid and protecting her. but given that, and the content of the story, the "caption" you, N, chose for the subject is totally out of line!
-
yup ... the potential for abuse IS terrifying, and real controls are in order. that would seem to be one goal in publishing the report - to set standards and controls and not keep things behind closed doors. nobody seemed to be treating this likely, and all seemed interested in helping the kid and protecting her. but given that, and the content of the story, the "caption" you, N, chose for the subject is totally out of line!
Ok, considering an Ed-Con can CURRENTLY twist shit and say your child has to be kidnapped, held captive, and brainwashed and drugged (and they get away with it...) whats to stop them from giving the kids hormones too?
If its all about "Parent's rights" and any old idiot can just SAY your child has x mental/psychological condition, its not really a slippery slope so much as a nudge to take it there.
-
If it wasn't for the sparks shooting by themselves between nearby metal objects, Luke would almost look calm. If you know who and what he really is, you understand why he has to show up for this one..
Tell me this isn't real. Tell me this is some sort of fucking joke.
Tell me this doesn't fucking exist in your world!!
-
The parents of the 6-year-old, both of whom were college-educated professionals, indicated a strong desire to continue caring for their daughter.
sounds like a couple of caring parents who DONT want their daughter institutionalized for the rest of her life. they are trying everything they can to NOT have other people care for her. it was reviewed by a medical ethical panel, and they agreed it was the right thing for this child. this has nothing to do with the teen RTC industry. im as anti program as the next guy but this is a red herring.
-
The parents of the 6-year-old, both of whom were college-educated professionals, indicated a strong desire to continue caring for their daughter.
sounds like a couple of caring parents who DONT want their daughter institutionalized for the rest of her life. they are trying everything they can to NOT have other people care for her. it was reviewed by a medical ethical panel, and they agreed it was the right thing for this child. this has nothing to do with the teen RTC industry. im as anti program as the next guy but this is a red herring.
I sure as hell hope so, but given the shit thats gone on unbridled for so long, who knows.
I just hope this doesn't give anyone ideas.
-
The onset of puberty and continued growth caused concern in the parents about how they would care for their daughter long-term, which they clearly wanted to do. They were concerned about having to turn over care to "strangers" and also about the complications that would arise when the child started menstruating.
yeah.. what horrible people. :roll:
-
The onset of puberty and continued growth caused concern in the parents about how they would care for their daughter long-term, which they clearly wanted to do. They were concerned about having to turn over care to "strangers" and also about the complications that would arise when the child started menstruating.
yeah.. what horrible people. :roll:
Ok, that is a very valid point... but completely beside my own.
My point is the thought of chemically (and surgically) making someone be juvenile forever, because someone deemed they were mentally unfit being twisted and misapplied scared me. Obviously this a case where its a child who will remain mentally an infant forever (according to the opinion of actual experts) but consider how ed-cons and programs give 'diagnoses' all fucking day long, and Im sure you could see how someone might want to add this to the list of potential 'cures'.
Shit, they rely on psychological regression as it is!
-
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it did give them ideas.
Guest, you're missing the point. There are some roads that never should be gone down, some ideas that never should come to light. Frankly, I don't care much about the article itself. The kid in question is permanently, organically, brain damaged and isn't even sentient.
The point is that the tools used to do this are freely available on the open market, much as chainsaws are available to guys in hockey masks. It's just a matter of having the insanity to misuse them. Publishing this article is like posting a notice to all the hockey-mask guys in the world: "Guess what? Not only are chainsaws good for cutting wood, they can also be used to hack people's limbs off!"
From the programmie point of view, what better way to control hormonally-incensed teenage boys than by giving them es... I can't even type that. It's something you'd see on a particularly depraved fetish site.
Remember, the people discussed in the article might have done it after a long period of consideration and with concern, but the people we usually discuss on Fornits have no ethics whatsoever and it's easy to visualize them doing something like this (but hard to wash away the nightmares afterwards).
-
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 21,00.html (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2437921,00.html)
Doctors: let us kill disabled babies
ONE of Britain?s royal medical colleges is calling on the health profession to consider permitting the euthanasia of seriously disabled newborn babies.
The proposal by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecology is a reaction to the number of such children surviving because of medical advances. The college is arguing that ?active euthanasia? should be considered for the overall good of families, to spare parents the emotional burden and financial hardship of bringing up the sickest babies.
-
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2437921,00.html
Doctors: let us kill disabled babies
ONE of Britain?s royal medical colleges is calling on the health profession to consider permitting the euthanasia of seriously disabled newborn babies.
The proposal by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecology is a reaction to the number of such children surviving because of medical advances. The college is arguing that ?active euthanasia? should be considered for the overall good of families, to spare parents the emotional burden and financial hardship of bringing up the sickest babies.
Great. EXACTLY the same justification programs use to torture and brainwash kids are killing babies in England.
At least in the USA we give em until their teens until we try this shit... :x
-
Given that high doses of estrogen can cause breast cancer, diabetes, gallstones, asthma, blood clots, and strokes; perhaps this could be seen as a form of euthanasia.
-
My immediate reaction to this article is I think I'm going to puke. This is right up there with genetically engineering humans...
-
Kind of off topic, but if your child is "private pay", not insurance, they will keep your child sometimes past the age of 18, and some new programs use the "wayward minor" clause to keep an individual in their "treatment" until the age of 24. Oh, and if you're having insurance pay for the program, or you've mortgaged the house for the money, as soon as the cash is gone, your kid is on the street, treatment be damned. These "non-profit" organizations should have a bit of money set aside to take care of the needy, don't you think?
-
Kind of off topic, but if your child is "private pay", not insurance, they will keep your child sometimes past the age of 18, and some new programs use the "wayward minor" clause to keep an individual in their "treatment" until the age of 24. Oh, and if you're having insurance pay for the program, or you've mortgaged the house for the money, as soon as the cash is gone, your kid is on the street, treatment be damned. These "non-profit" organizations should have a bit of money set aside to take care of the needy, don't you think?
How can you say someone is a wayward minor when they hit 18 and are legally emancipated the minute the clock ticks midnight?
Well, besides not telling anyone and not letting the kid call the police.
I swear to god so much of this would get simply stamped out like so many insects if someone made the cops do their damn job.
The real question is: how do you hold them accountable?
-
This is right up there with genetically engineering humans...
*clears throat*
It's all about what you're engineering them for. Do you want to massively increase power and intelligence.. or do things better left unsaid?
God help you all if people demented enough to torture children start using the technology.
-
and some new programs use the "wayward minor" clause to keep an individual in their "treatment" until the age of 24.
I don't believe this.
Link?
-
Humans have been practicing infanticide and messing with other people for years. They used to castrate boys to keep their singing voices young.
In the particular case of the girl in the article, it seems like it might make sense, but I also see a potential for abuse. But, isn't that sort of abuse already happening in programs, schools, and mental hospitals?
-
Would someone PLEASE tell me why these parents think they can't can't take care of their daughter unless she is surgically and chemically altered? WTF???????????????? What is is about having a womb and breasts that make it impossible to continue to take care of her as a disabled adult? Yes you gotta deal with the menstruation thing ( but its not like she's gonna go out and party and come home pregnant) but they would in an insitution as well. You can hire health care workers to help out. I don't get it. I think its a bullshit excuse. They want to keep her a kid because, like sending kids away to BMSs its EASIER FOR THE PARENTS!!!!!!!!!!
You can also hire a taxidermist and stick little Janie on the wall above the fireplace. :flame:
-
While there is possiblity for abuse here, I dint think anyone can really sit in judegement of the parents if they are not in their shoes. If the girls level of disability is profound this may be the best of only a few options that are all pretty horrible. If they institutionalise this girl because they are unable to provide the level of care that a fully grown adult needs, she may be vulnerable to any number of abuses that she is unable to speak up about. They may not be able to afford a full time carer in the home.
I feel for people in this position and dont think there are any easy answers