Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 14, 2003, 03:52:00 PM
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We are considering sending our daughter to Provo Canyon. Does anyone have experience or first hand knowledge of the facility? Would you recommend their program?
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They are frauds. You will destroy your child and your relationship with her. Have you even looked into it yourself yet? There are a string of these places in Utah. Don't waste your money and destroy your family at the same time, please. Children die in those places from neglect and abuse. Please re-think your options, before it's to late. They have no credibility, ask them and they will fill you with explanations not facts.
[ This Message was edited by: ehm on 2005-10-07 12:39 ]
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Author EVERY SURIVOR
Sorted in ASC Order
anne
Welcome Stranger
Joined: 2003-03-14
Posts: 3 Posted: 2003-03-14 13:07:00
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PLEASE DONT EVER SEND YOUR KID TO ANY SCHOOL LIKE CEDU OR PROVO CANYON. ALL YOU WOULD BE DOING IS PAYING FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY ABUSE YOUR CHILD. IF YOU LOVE THEM IN ANY WAY DONT SEND THEM AWAY. I DONT KNOW WHY OR HOW THIS ABUSE IS STILL GOING ON BUT IT MUST BE STOPPED. IT IS HORRIBLE THING TO DO TO ANYONE!!!!!!!!!
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Hi Provo considering parents~
My first post may have sounded a bit desparate, and I apoligise. You see, I just can't stand seeing people like yourselves taken advantage of by these programs who claim to be able to "fix" your children for you. Being a parent myself who has actually been there myself, makes this so much more difficult to address.
The best advice is to find a licenced proffesional that your daughter likes, and can trust. Children are no different than adults when it comes down to it, your daughter has to want to change. You can't force people to change. That is how psychology and psychiatry works. Your daughter has to know that all you want is for her to be happy. I'm sure that is what she wants also. Please don't buy these programs that claim to "save" your kids. Only you can love and direct you children to better themselves. Ask her what she needs, communicate with her, don't give up, never give up. What she needs is your love. Nothing more, and nothing less. If you would like further advice, feel free to e-mail me: ladymorli@yahoo.com. I will be here, and my motivation is only, that I care.
Love,
Morli
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pcs was the best thing that ever happened to me. i still see my therapist from there even after 14 months. as hard as it was it did so much and the staff really cared and helped me. i still call the staff and talk to them today. they really do want you to succeed. if you need any other info you can email me at poeter_chick@hotmail.com.
lacey
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it is obvious to me that lacey is a fake. anyone who spent 15 months locked up in that child prison they call provo canyon would want to get as far away as possible. is lacey a fake or were they just extrememly successful with thier brainwashing? I would strongly advise you to follow morli's advice. DOnt incarcerate your children. Please weigh how bad they really are. sometimes it is hard to be objective. :flame:
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Just because someone did have success or think that they have success in a program does not necessarily mean they're a "plant" or a "fake". It's all about how you perceive things. I'm not by any means condoning the abuses that take place, nor am I endorsing Provo. But Lacey might really feel like it helped her, and that's good for her. That's certainly not true for everyone who's been there, or possibly even for the majority. She might even feel differently in a year or two.
Sorry to stick in here, I understand feeling maybe a little paranoid about people with positive things to say, but the best way to get through to someone at times is to be compassionate and patient. Show your opinions, your facts and let them speak for themselves. Most of the time, the facts get through to people, and unfortunately we can't always get through to every individual.
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Hi there,
I am very familiar with Utah programs. There are other, better, options out there. Trust me, Less restrictive is much better. Hopefully this is meant as treatment not punishment. Right?
First, let me ask you a few questions.
1) Have you exhausted ALL other forms of treatment? i.e. school counselor, individual therapy, etc?
2) What brought you to the decision to look for out-of-home placement?
3) Does your daughter know what you are planning? Is she in agreement?
4) are you planning to personally take her to the program or employ a transport company?
5) are you as parents willing to be invovled in her treatment? or are you just happy to get her out of your home? ( I ask this because some parents have the idea that out of sight out of mind. NOT true!) I HIGHLY suggest ( as do most reputable programs) that the family is ALSO in therapy/treatment at the same time as their teen.) My experience is that the problem is a family affair. Rarely does the teen just go on a wild tangent and run amuck all by themselves.
Please feel free to call me. I'd be happy to talk with you at length regarding your situation.
Lee Ann http://www.teensatrisk.net (http://www.teensatrisk.net)
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Something about this doesn't feel kosher...for a consultant to be advertising her services on a public forum where parents are asking about other's personal experiences with a program. If they'd wanted the advice of a consultant wouldn't they have sought one out from the many available on the web?
Forgive me if I'm off base, but I was offended. While this forum is open to the public I would be disappointed to see it become a place for consultants and programs to advertise their services. Other's thoughts? Would it be considered censorship to delete such a post?
Deborah
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Yes, I think it would be considered censorship if the post were to be removed. I think everyone should be given the opportunity to share their thoughts and beleifs.
I do however, think it is tacky when a consultant gives their advice on a public forum and then turns around and leaves their link to their website. It is one thing for them to come on and share or tell how or why they beleive that what they are doing is in the best interest of children, whether it is true or not, but it is all together different when they leave their link, that is when their motives have to really be questioned.
Are they trying to provide information to parents or are they trying to sell their consulting services?
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In addition her website is grossly misleading like so many other sites. Her statisics alone seem very suspect.
Utah programs have the same problems as all the others. In fact the worst programs are run in and from Utah. The regulations that were supposed to curb abuses in Utah are seldom enforced because the enforcement agency head has social ties with many of the program owners.
Child abuse is bad ergo people who abuse children are bad ergo places that abuse children are bad ergo industries that abuse children are bad ergo people who work in the industry are bad.
Sorry if it seems simplistic but until this industry submits to heavy regulation necesary to ensure the safety and freedom of its clients as every other industry that has ever held people against their will has had to submit to. As it stands now these programs have are at best frauds and often abusive.
[ This Message was edited by: FaceKhan on 2003-06-06 12:36 ]
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I am trying to help FIX the industry! I do not simply sit at my computer all day and bash programs or people trying to help others. I feel I am actually helping make Utah programs better!!
I visit programs OFTEN and when I see a problem, I contact the state. For instance, on the 29th of May, I contacted state licensing and lodged a complaint regarding a program I had recently visited,yesterday that program was personally inspected. I can't guarantee that things will change, but at least that program knows they are being watched and the state is aware of the infractions.
I know it looks like I am money hungry. I wish you all knew how many times I give away my sevices. I believe Provo Canyon is a LAST resort program. I know this, you know this, but how do we get that across to new parents looking at this one and others that ARE NOT SAFE??? There are programs in the state that I would not send my dog to ~ and guess what?? These programs are FULL!! 120 kids jammed into unkept and unsupervised warehouses. When a parent askes, you bet I am going to step up, and send them a different direction. Sorry it sounds like a sales pitch, it's meant to be a SAVE pitch! Watching parents being sold a bill of goods kills me. So frustrating!! :mad:
On the other hand there are safe programs out there. Unless you have walked the halls, looked at credentials, and more importantly talked with the students face to face, you don't know that. I have done these things.
I am only one voice here in Utah. I can't be everywhere all the time. Is there a group of people I can join to help make the necessary changes by going through the proper channels? I am unaware of any but would be happy to lend my services to make this state a safer place for teens. I am in within 2 hours drive of 20 programs! Lets put our heads together instead of bashing each other.
Lee Ann
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Although as a shorterm goal cleaning up the industry is laudable, it is not my goal and not my principle pursuit.
I want our government to protect the right of all individuals to be free from involuntary commitment to any in-patient psychiatric center. Teens should have the same rights as adults in resisting committment. That includes a full hearing before a court where no less than two physicians attest to a diagnosis of a mental disorder and a danger to the self or others requiring hospitalization.
Not getting along with your parents is not a mental disease, puberty is not a mental disease, slumping in grades is not a mental disease, hating your stepparent is not a mental disease, and winning a custody battle does not include kidnapping your kid to a concentration camp.
It can be no more clear than that. The entire industry is a fraud. It can't be fixed, because its a fraud. There can't be success rates because its a fraud. At best its little more than a teen tour for 4 times the money. At worst its a gulag complete with "reeducation".
And if you think Provo Canyon is an acceptable treatment option for any human being then our views can never even come close to being reconciled.
I accept small favors and regulation as they come but the truest regulation is that it is illegal to practice unlicensed mental health services with unqualified staff in all 50 states and that is what nearly every program does. In addition it is a violation of human rights to be held against ones will for psychological "treatment" unless a fair hearing is conducted where it is shown that the person represents a threat to themselves or others because of their documented mental disease.
Parents don't want to send their kids to therapists because often therapists see that the kid is reacting to the environment they are in and is not gonna place all the responsibility on the kid. Therapy takes a long time and only works when people want to work through it. Therapy also may reveal that the reason a person is unhappy or depressed or acting out is legitimate and parents might have to allow their teen to make changes in their lifestyle that make them uncomfortable or parents may be told that it is they who are contributing to the problems in the family. Teens are actually far less likely to suffer from mental illness than their parents and that is something they don't want to hear.
How do I know this because I suffered with clinical depression from a very young age and it took a long time to realize that rather unorthodox changes were necesary for me to at least take control of my life to the extent that if I worked at it I could be happy.
My therapist at one point told me to call him daily at 6am because it helped me to just wake up in the morning and at no point did he suggest some trek out into the woods or some hippie group therapy sharing circle bullshit would help me. He let me help myself by just listening and being a neutral party that I could run ideas by as to how to make my life better.
One explanation why incarceration of teens is so popular among wealthy parents.
"Its easier to love someone than to live with them. Love is fantasy, living is work, and those people don't like to work"
Oh and one more thing, I don't just sit at my computer all day. I discovered this industry while involved in the National Youth Rights Association, youthrights.org
I started studying it when my friend was kidnapped to Alldredge academy in WV. Going on nothing but the state that he was sent to I discovered where he was sent and enough dirt on the place to convince his father it was a mistake. His mother though kept him from coming home. I called prosecutors, CPS, the sheriff in WV and reporters. He was brought home a month early in a 3 month program (although some people have been there for over a year)
In addition I talked to my youth group about these places so they would know about them before it was too late.
More recently I have reported the Ivy Ridge WWASP facility in NY to the authorities and asked that it be investigated as an unlicensed mental health service.
I also made attempts to help a girl who claimed to have been raped at Carolina Springs and was on the verge of being sent back. Her parents would not let her call the police so I did my best to call for her.
We may both be in the trenches but I am a volunteer, not a mercenary out to make money from "helping people."
As for the possibility that WWASP will finally be shut down soon and its leaders brought to justice, I can only say one thing.
"Corpse carriers to the guardhouse."-"Mother Night", Kurt Vonnegut
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No greater love hath a man, then he lay down his life for his brother, not for millions, not for glory, not for fame, for one person, in the dark, where no one will every know or see.
[ This Message was edited by: FaceKhan on 2003-06-06 23:03 ]
[ This Message was edited by: FaceKhan on 2003-06-06 23:18 ]
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We sent our son to PCS because of drug abuse. We had exhausted every other possible form of treatment and provided lots of love and guidance. After 3 months, he is back to the wonderful son we knew and have always loved, and we look forward to his return home to a clean and sober life. No, he does not like it, but has no stories about the alleged "horrors" that go on there. PCS has saved our son!!!!We will always be eternally grateful to his primary therapist. If you would like to talk, reply with an e-mail address or phone # or whatever and I will be happy to speak with you!!
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Hope you kid doesn't get molested there...
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strongly suggest a closer read of the WWASP contract. Two supervening considerations:
(a) inmates at WWASP facilities are punished for ALL negative disclosures -- the truthful negative disclosure just as severely as the mistaken or false. READ YOUR CONTRACT!!! NEGATIVE STATEMENTS CAN BE A CAT 3 OR WORSE. More importantly, inmates cannot progress in the program unless they write positive reports to their check-writers. WWASPS REWARDS FALSE REPORTS --JUST SO LONG AS THE REPORT IS POSITIVE.
(b) all outbound communication from inmates is routinely censored by WWASP staff. Negative facts are expunged from emails -- eg., our son reported that his Casa wardens were giving out used razors for shaving. His email asking whether sharing razors posed a risk of AIDS cross contamination was not allowed to be sent. We didn't find out about this specific incident until after he got home.
Both forms of censorship are illegal for state-run juvenile facilities (or for that matter, prisons or mental institutions). (See for example, Milonas versus Williams) Why would you be proud of giving your child less consideration than would be given a mentally incapacitated person or common criminal?
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I strongly suggest a closer read of the WWASP contract. Two supervening considerations:
(a) inmates at WWASP facilities are punished for ALL negative disclosures -- the truthful negative disclosure just as severely as the mistaken or false. READ YOUR CONTRACT!!! NEGATIVE STATEMENTS CAN BE A CAT 3 OR WORSE. More importantly, inmates cannot progress in the program unless they write positive reports to their check-writers. WWASPS REWARDS FALSE REPORTS --JUST SO LONG AS THE REPORT IS POSITIVE.
(b) all outbound communication from inmates is routinely censored by WWASP staff. Negative facts are expunged from emails -- eg., our son reported that his Casa wardens were giving out used razors for shaving. His email asking whether sharing razors posed a risk of AIDS cross contamination was not allowed to be sent. We didn't find out about this specific incident until after he got home.
Both forms of censorship are illegal for state-run juvenile facilities (or for that matter, prisons or mental institutions). (See for example, Milonas versus Williams)
Under such circumstances, are you totally oblivious to why you child is loathe to say anything that would lengthen his stay by another month or two? Why would you be proud of giving your child less consideration than would be given a mentally incapacitated person or common criminal?
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On 2003-06-05 10:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"it is obvious to me that lacey is a fake. anyone who spent 15 months locked up in that child prison they call provo canyon would want to get as far away as possible. is lacey a fake or were they just extrememly successful with thier brainwashing? I would strongly advise you to follow morli's advice. DOnt incarcerate your children. Please weigh how bad they really are. sometimes it is hard to be objective. :flame: "
Lacey is not a fake, I am a good friend of hers. She had the one, really good, honest and caring, therapist in Provo. She also lived in the Utah area so it was easier for her to get in contact with her mother, etc, I know a lot of folks that are out of Provo right now, and those who shared the same therapist as Lacey still keep in touch with her. Lacey is a wonderful person, and she is not a fake, she is very much real and she did have some rough times at Provo with staff and lies that they liked to make up, but Lacey fought hard not to let it get to her and she succeeded very much so. She is one of those rare cases that has benefitted from PCS, and that is all I shall say.
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In responce to the anonymous parent who claims her son is doing so wonderful now with three exclaimation marks:
First of all, I don't doubt your sincerity. As a parent myself I was almost "sucked in" just as you have obviously been. You need to understand something - all of the kids there know that their parents are being seriously manipulated by the program. As you know you were sent a letter a few days after admission warning you of the manipulative letters and pleas you would receive from your child. I'm sure the first several phone calls home were also monitored by the therapist as was your first visit.
There are some really smart kids who catch on real fast that they will be able to go home sooner if they just go along with everything. Obviously your son was not put in isolation for 6 months like some of those who refuse to be broken down. He went along with the program if he is going home in 3 months instead of a year.
I've seen only a few parents who will admit that they made a huge mistake. I made one - and I'm now learning just how abusive PCS can be.
It's hard to believe that any child comes out of there unscathed. Your son probably isn't telling you everything because he knows you will report it to the therapist and he will end up loosing out on the inside.
I have heard reports from dozens of survivors. Your son must have heard all of the screaming. My child heard kids screaming in pain and terror night and day.
This is one of the most abusive programs in the nation. It is where the leaders and founders of the abusive WWASPS programs learned their abusive methods of behavior modification.
As you know, PCS never lets on that they are practicing behavior modification on your child. There web sites and propaganda are extremely deceptive. I know of other parents who were brainwashed by the therpists at PCS. This is a money-making institution. When the money or insurance runs out then suddenly your child is well enough to come home. Perhaps your insurance ran out.
He'll just be peachy when he gets home - asking you if he can go to the bathroom or get a drink.
It was odd to have my 17 year old ask me if she could use the bathroom for several days.
What truly helped was something that is FREE. It's called AA and NA - where people who've been there help and support those who want to get clean and sober. Also lots of family support and love. Provo Canyon School abuses children. They laughed when they were "taking down" my child in a violent human restraint that was more like and assault and battery. There are some very warped staff at Provo Canyon School. The licensed people support their activity rather than discourage it. He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
--Albert Einstein
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CW - What would help is if former therapists from Provo Canyon School would begin speaking out. Spend some time researching posts on the CEDU topic threads (if you haven't already). I don't know who to feel more sorry for, the kids or their therapists who are suffering years after they were either thrown out the door or quit on their own volition.
It's really a shame that the Utah authorities can not keep up with monitoring these places on a fairly frequent and always unannounced basis.
But since they can't, there should be a moratorium, no more new programs in Utah until the state hires and trains more DHS program inspectors.
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On 2004-05-02 17:48:00, cherish wisdom wrote:
"In responce to the anonymous parent who claims her son is doing so wonderful now with three exclaimation marks:
First of all, I don't doubt your sincerity. As a parent myself I was almost "sucked in" just as you have obviously been. You need to understand something - all of the kids there know that their parents are being seriously manipulated by the program. As you know you were sent a letter a few days after admission warning you of the manipulative letters and pleas you would receive from your child. I'm sure the first several phone calls home were also monitored by the therapist as was your first visit.
There are some really smart kids who catch on real fast that they will be able to go home sooner if they just go along with everything. Obviously your son was not put in isolation for 6 months like some of those who refuse to be broken down. He went along with the program if he is going home in 3 months instead of a year.
I've seen only a few parents who will admit that they made a huge mistake. I made one - and I'm now learning just how abusive PCS can be.
It's hard to believe that any child comes out of there unscathed. Your son probably isn't telling you everything because he knows you will report it to the therapist and he will end up loosing out on the inside.
I have heard reports from dozens of survivors. Your son must have heard all of the screaming. My child heard kids screaming in pain and terror night and day.
This is one of the most abusive programs in the nation. It is where the leaders and founders of the abusive WWASPS programs learned their abusive methods of behavior modification.
As you know, PCS never lets on that they are practicing behavior modification on your child. There web sites and propaganda are extremely deceptive. I know of other parents who were brainwashed by the therpists at PCS. This is a money-making institution. When the money or insurance runs out then suddenly your child is well enough to come home. Perhaps your insurance ran out.
He'll just be peachy when he gets home - asking you if he can go to the bathroom or get a drink.
It was odd to have my 17 year old ask me if she could use the bathroom for several days.
What truly helped was something that is FREE. It's called AA and NA - where people who've been there help and support those who want to get clean and sober. Also lots of family support and love. Provo Canyon School abuses children. They laughed when they were "taking down" my child in a violent human restraint that was more like and assault and battery. There are some very warped staff at Provo Canyon School. The licensed people support their activity rather than discourage it. He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
--Albert Einstein
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Yea, it was almost crazy to realize that after 26months I didn't have to ask anymore to use the bathroom, take a shower, get a drink of what, go to my room, have to be on my bed by a certain time and lights out by a certain time, not having to ask to watch t.v. etc... When I did this for a bit, my mother just looked at me like i was stupid or something, but it was just something that I was forced to do for the past 26months. I work at a camp during the summer and we have these wooden towers that lok out over all of the land we own and the local mountains, they call it the observation towers, but I refuse to call it that, the other term they use for it is the ob's towers, which I def. refuse to use, to close to home for me, to close for mental nightmares of my time in ob's rooms and abuse suffered in them. Then we call our certain camp site areas units, which I also refuse to call them, I use the given camp names to them, units, ugh, I even hated it when I had to use that word in math, anything associated with Provo makes me want to gag!
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two things.
One, Lee Ann, who are you? I have never heard of you before. My name is Hope. I am a survivor of PCS from 2000-2002. Also I am not surprised that with 2 hours you live within 20 programs, considering there are 196 in Utah alone and probably more that we don't know of yet. Butyea, just wondering who ya are's cause I've no clue, and I don't care what others say bout anyones. I make my own choices on whether to black list people or not. So yea.
Second, for anyone that has a long frequency conbra or other such radio or may live in Utah with one such radio, here is Provo Canyon Schools' frequency number so that you may listen in on first count of what goes on there, course you don't get all the good's this way, but you'll know part of what goes on inside.
463.5000 LAO 727315;PROVO CANYON SCHOOL
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About a month ago I was searching on line and typed in: Provo Canyon School Utah Valley Hospital. What I found was a Utah dot gov official web site showing that Provo Canyon School was one of the HOSPITALS in Provo. Why is this important? Well in Utah residential facilities and boarding schools have few if any regulations - they need only abide by core rules but hospitals must abide by more stringent State and Federal health, safety and mental health codes. So - what do you all think? Should Provo Canyon School be treated like a hospital or a residential facility if they are listed as a hospital on Utah's official State web-site?
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
"Isn't your pants' zipper supposed to be in the front?"
--Hobbs to Calvin
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"If you lack wisdom ask of God and it shall be given to you."[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-05-05 17:09 ]
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They should totally treat it like a hospitial and make it abide by they're rules and regulations, i mean wtf, that would more than likely help to stop a lot of corrupt shit.
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Fraud.
Warehouse facilities mislead the public to believe they are something they are not. And in many cases, mislead the state to believe they are something they are not- "traditional" boarding schools when in fact they are "therapeutic", BM, thought control camps.
If you decide to notify the state about a particular program, be prepared to follow up to ensure they are investigating the facility. As "boarding schools" they are private corporations and it's difficult for the state to gain access. I made numerous phone calls to the Office of Reg Services, sent them links to web advertisements, a copy of the parents manual, etc. Basically, did their job. They were still hesitant and it took weeks to gain access.
When it was finally established that they needed to apply for a license they told the state that they began as a boarding school and changed to a therapeutic facility. The state did not fine them for operating illegally for 7 years, even though I provided them with proof that they opened as a therapeutic facility.
The state determined right away that their newly opened wilderness program must be licensed. Last I heard they were "negotiating" with the facility to determine the classification for the TBS.
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You are totally right. I just asked an authrority to please let me know if it is indeed a hospital or not - if it is then they are abusing mentally ill kids (a huge percentage have some mental ailment - often depression) Hopefully they will look into it. Perhaps they will since they are now under the public eye due to the tragic death of the staff member,Anson, in Cedar City. It's too bad that someone has to die before they do anything. These youth programs are big business, profitable, and they are usually one of the major employers in the community. So there are many corrupt political, social and economic reasons for keeping these dens of torture operating. Unfortunately these places usually attract staff who have the same perversions and sadistic natures as the soldiers who abused and humiliated the Iraqi prisoners. Often they are not given the appropriate background checks.
Preacher man don't tell me heaven is under the earth; you don't know what life is worth;.......If you know what life is worth, you will look for your's on earth.
--Bob Marley
[ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2004-05-06 12:48 ]