Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 26, 2006, 09:09:22 AM
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The Archangels Michael and Raphael attempted to bring the word of God to this unholy place but have been banished by the unholy webmaster. God has no place here and here forth will banish those who continue to do this vile work from the kingdom of heaven.
Dear God:
Why didn't you save the school children at ?. ..
Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97
Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville , Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98
Littleton , Colorado 4/20/99
Taber , Alberta , Canada 5/28/99
Conyers , Georgia 5/20/99
Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee , California 3/ 5/01 and
El Cajon , California 3/22/01?
Sincerely,
Concerned Student
Reply:
Dear Concerned Student:
I am not allowed in schools.
Sincerely,
God
How did this get started?...
Let's see,
I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
she didn't want any prayer in our schools.
And we said, OK.
Then, someone said you better not
read the Bible in school,
the Bible that says
"thou shalt not kill,
thou shalt not steal,
and love your neighbors as yourself,"
And we said, OK...
Dr. Benjamin Spock said
we shouldn't spank our children
when they misbehaved
because their little personalities
would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.
And we said,
an expert should know what he's talking about
so we won't spank them anymore..
Then someone said
teachers and principals better not
discipline our children when they misbehave.
And the school administrators said
no faculty member in this school
better touch a student when they misbehave
because we don't want any bad publicity,
and we surely don't want to be sued.
And we accepted their reasoning...
Then someone said,
let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
and they won't even have to tell their parents.
And we said, that's a grand idea...
Then some wise school board member said,
since boys will be boys
and they're going to do it anyway,
let's give our sons all the condoms they want,
so they can have all the fun they desire,
and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.
And we said, that's another great idea...
Then some of our top elected officials said
it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.
And we said,
it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President,
does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....
And someone else took that appreciation a step further
and published pictures of nude children
and then stepped further still by
making them available on the Internet.
And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....
And the entertainment industry said,
let's make TV shows and movies that promote
profanity, violence and illicit sex...
And let's record music that encourages
rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...
And we said,
it's just entertainment
and it has no adverse effect
and nobody takes it seriously anyway,
so go right ahead.
Now we're asking ourselves
why our children have no conscience,
why they don't know right from wrong,
and why it doesn't bother them to
kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.
Undoubtedly,
if we thought about it long and hard enough,
we could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"
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And Fornits said let us sue and close all schools
designed to correct the academic, behavioral and moral
dysfunctions we have worked so hard to create.
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No, Webmaster states no flooding on Fornits, you self serving, sanctinonious ass. Read the terms of use, please. If you do it again, I'll enter a complaint w/ Alltel of Dahlonega and you'll likely have to find another isp.
What, exactly, set you off anyway? And don't you think it's more civil, productive and Christian to discuss the issue rather than trying to prevent conversation from taking place?
(Dear God, please smite the spammers so that we may have peace!)
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The root of discussion is discourse, as difined as...
Main Entry: 1dis·course
Pronunciation: 'dis-"kors, dis-'
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English discours, from Medieval Latin & Late Latin discursus; Medieval Latin, argument, from Late Latin, conversation, from Latin, act of running about, from discurrere to run about, from dis- + currere to run -- more at CAR
1 archaic : the capacity of orderly thought or procedure : RATIONALITY
2 : verbal interchange of ideas; especially : CONVERSATION
3 a : formal and orderly and usually extended expression of thought on a subject b : connected speech or writing c : a linguistic unit (as a conversation or a story) larger than a sentence
4 obsolete : social familiarity
5 : a mode of organizing knowledge, ideas, or experience that is rooted in language and its concrete contexts (as history or institutions)
Rational conversation, not slander, attacks or the use foul language.
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Fish or cut bait. Get to discussing the issues surrounding HLA or kindly fuck off.
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Are you speaking officially for HLA?
Does your boss know your posting this crap from a computer at HLA?
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Fish or cut bait. Get to discussing the issues surrounding HLA or kindly fuck off.
If you are posting from HLA then why don't you list some topics for us to discuss about HLA? I am SURE that the folks on here would be MORE than happy to discuss anything about HLA that you would like to discuss. So now the ball is in your court...
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Dear Ninja Turtles,
Do you two have a point you'd like to bring up or is just going to continue to be vauge nonsense and matters that have nothing to do with hla?
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Are you speaking officially for HLA?
Does your boss know your posting this crap from a computer at HLA?
If this is coming from HLA, then the question becomes "What kind of weirdo holy-roller fundamentalists are working up there?"
It's disturbing to say the least.
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What about that place isn't?
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Dear Ninja Turtles,
Nice catch! Hey assholes, do Leo and Donnie know you're posting here? :lol:
I've seen Jesus Christ post here a few times before; perhaps he should give his opinion on this "school" and the subhumans spamming from it.
It's awesome how these guys explode when pushed against a wall. I foresee more crazy spam posts as HLA goes under.
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And Fornits said let us sue and close all schools
designed to correct the academic, behavioral and moral
dysfunctions we have worked so hard to create.
No, not Fornits, my friend. The people who want to close HLA have been wronged by them. They've been lied to, abused, neglected, defrauded and bilked.
"And Churchie said 'Let us victimize children in private for fun and profit, behind closed doors, so nobody can see. And let us vilify all defenders of children to keep our collection plate full.' "
Shouldn't you be lurching around in a trance and handling snakes or something?
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The power of Christ compels you.
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Have you forgotten about us?
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Ninja Turtles, if you wish to (as you claim) have a real discussion then stop spamming. Lay out why you two feel hla is a good place and discuss some of the merits. Look at some of the issues we've brought up and justify them or offer an opposing view point. If you remain respectful the majority of anti hla posters on here will treat you the same.
If youre just here to troll then best of luck, none of your predecessors have lasted very long.
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Bruce - we might as well just let them keep digging themselves into a deeper hole, one of two things will happen.
1) God will smack him on the head and he may realize just how stupid he is (and he can't spell)
2) He will keep talking and continue to make a fool of himself and give us more room to track who he is.
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The root of discussion is discourse, as difined as...
Main Entry: 1dis·course
Pronunciation: 'dis-"kors, dis-'
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English discours, from Medieval Latin & Late Latin discursus; Medieval Latin, argument, from Late Latin, conversation, from Latin, act of running about, from discurrere to run about, from dis- + currere to run -- more at CAR
1 archaic : the capacity of orderly thought or procedure : RATIONALITY
2 : verbal interchange of ideas; especially : CONVERSATION
3 a : formal and orderly and usually extended expression of thought on a subject b : connected speech or writing c : a linguistic unit (as a conversation or a story) larger than a sentence
4 obsolete : social familiarity
5 : a mode of organizing knowledge, ideas, or experience that is rooted in language and its concrete contexts (as history or institutions)
Rational conversation, not slander, attacks or the use foul language.
The HLA network guy could look to see which employee's been on Dictionary.com today......
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The root of discussion is discourse, as difined as...
Main Entry: 1dis·course
Pronunciation: 'dis-"kors, dis-'
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English discours, from Medieval Latin & Late Latin discursus; Medieval Latin, argument, from Late Latin, conversation, from Latin, act of running about, from discurrere to run about, from dis- + currere to run -- more at CAR
1 archaic : the capacity of orderly thought or procedure : RATIONALITY
2 : verbal interchange of ideas; especially : CONVERSATION
3 a : formal and orderly and usually extended expression of thought on a subject b : connected speech or writing c : a linguistic unit (as a conversation or a story) larger than a sentence
4 obsolete : social familiarity
5 : a mode of organizing knowledge, ideas, or experience that is rooted in language and its concrete contexts (as history or institutions)
Rational conversation, not slander, attacks or the use foul language.
Dude - you forgot to mention another definition of "Discourse" is:
n 1: extended verbal expression in speech or writing 2: an address of a religious nature (usually delivered during a church service) [syn: sermon, preaching].
Preaching and giving English lessons - Kees de Vente?
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I have finally begun to understand the motivations and the fascinations of the people so dilligently involved in this site. It occured to me while looking at the recommended books in the upper right hand corner.
Burning Rainbow Farm
Steal this Urine Test
The Great Drug War
Now I see why HLA must be closed. It is ridding these drug obsessed individuals of fellow users. It is ridding children of the drug-induced paranoia necessary to keep these conspiracy theories going. Keep the bong smoking.
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I have finally begun to understand the motivations and the fascinations of the people so dilligently involved in this site. It occured to me while looking at the recommended books in the upper right hand corner.
Burning Rainbow Farm
Steal this Urine Test
The Great Drug War
Now I see why HLA must be closed. It is ridding these drug obsessed individuals of fellow users. It is ridding children of the drug-induced paranoia necessary to keep these conspiracy theories going. Keep the bong smoking.
Interesting fact about Hunter Thompson:
Death
Thompson died at his self-described "fortified compound" in Woody Creek, Colorado, at 5:42 p.m. on February 20, 2005, from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was 67 years old.
Thompson's son (Juan), daughter-in-law (Jennifer Winkel Thompson) and grandson (Will Thompson) were visiting for the weekend at the time of his suicide. Will and Jennifer were in the adjacent room when they heard the gunshot, though the gunshot was mistaken for a book falling, and so they continued with their activities for a few minutes before checking on him: "Winkel Thompson continued playing 20 questions with Will, Juan Thompson continued taking a photo." Thompson was sitting at his typewriter with the word "counselor" written in the center of the page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_S._Thompson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_S._Thompson)
Oh the irony....
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How about these titles:
They Thought They Were Free.
Ain't Nobodys Business if you do.
These works of political wisdom argue that America is already halfway to building concentration camps and furnaces and that the means to escape this destiny is to legalize prostitution, drugs and gambling. I continue to see why HLA stand in the way of your plans.
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How about these titles:
They Thought They Were Free.
Ain't Nobodys Business if you do.
These works of political wisdom argue that America is already halfway to building concentration camps and furnaces and that the means to escape this destiny is to legalize prostitution, drugs and gambling. I continue to see why HLA stand in the way of your plans.
Your posts (yawn) are an obvious attempt to divert from the real issues. Please make a point or go back to reading something that's more on your level - like Dr. Seuss for example.....
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I think the time has come to stop complaining about the troubled parent/child industry and begin offering suggestions to improve this situation. Individuals like yourselves have been successful in completing the tasks described in the initial post now take the next step. Get these reading selections made a part of every public educational system in America. Who needs the Bible when you can teach legalization of drugs, prostitution, gambling; all victimless crimes right! I feel that all parents should believe everything that is posted on this site since it is obviously very well reasoned and indisputable.
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I think the time has come to stop complaining about the troubled parent/child industry and begin offering suggestions to improve this situation. Individuals like yourselves have been successful in completing the tasks described in the initial post now take the next step. Get these reading selections made a part of every public educational system in America. Who needs the Bible when you can teach legalization of drugs, prostitution, gambling; all victimless crimes right! I feel that all parents should believe everything that is posted on this site since it is obviously very well reasoned and indisputable.
Whatever you say Jeff.....
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Parents, are these remarks truly representative of your values?
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I believe the people on this site have offered solutions. They have suggested that HLA be licensed by the appropriate authorities. They have suggested that HLA not take students who are inappropriate for the services they provide. They have suggested that HLA live up to the marketing they put forth to their parents in regards to the qualifications of teachers and counselors. There are many other suggestions that have been made by the people on the site. Please comment on why these suggestions have not been followed up on.
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Authorities appropriate to who?
Student deemed inappropriate by who?
Teachers and Counselors deemed appropriate by who?
Maybe Willie Nelson and Tommy Chong are available to come teach and counsel children in accordance with the values of Fornits.
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Authorities appropriate to who?
Student deemed inappropriate by who?
Teachers and Counselors deemed appropriate by who?
Maybe Willie Nelson and Tommy Chong are available to come teach and counsel children in accordance with the values of Fornits.
Jeff,
You already know all the answers to these questions.
PS - Work on your grammar; it's pathetic.
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As usual, a discussion is requested by the immoral fornits members and then no discussion is forthcoming. I expect the personal attacks and profanity to follow soon. Its a pattern. Why don't we continue talking about how my "dream team" could help you get your political agenda of legalized drugs, prostitution and gambling enacted while we shut down the educational system.
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Interesting fact about Hunter Thompson:
Death
Thompson died at his self-described "fortified compound" in Woody Creek, Colorado, at 5:42 p.m. on February 20, 2005, from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was 67 years old.
Thompson's son (Juan), daughter-in-law (Jennifer Winkel Thompson) and grandson (Will Thompson) were visiting for the weekend at the time of his suicide. Will and Jennifer were in the adjacent room when they heard the gunshot, though the gunshot was mistaken for a book falling, and so they continued with their activities for a few minutes before checking on him: "Winkel Thompson continued playing 20 questions with Will, Juan Thompson continued taking a photo." Thompson was sitting at his typewriter with the word "counselor" written in the center of the page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_S._Thompson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_S._Thompson)
Oh the irony....
Shall we have a toast? With say, a Gonzo Imperial Porter.
Seriously though, HT, your assumption is inaccurate. You can't lump everyone on Fornits into one neat package. It's a lame argument.
It matters not if parents values are in line with the posters here, or the webmaster's. It is important to know if the program's values are in line with their own.
The questions parents need to be asking are:
*Are they licensed and monitored by the state? Any violations or complaints filed?
*What kinds of methods and techniques are employed?
*Are they evidence-based or experimental?
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=18962 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=18962)
*Why are parents required to sever contact with their child? Their only link to the outside world.
*How many assaults, rapes, suicide attempts, deaths?
There are a number of others, but that's good for starters.
Got a kid there? What inquiries did you make in order to determine if HLA was in line with your values?
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Authorities appropriate to who?
Student deemed inappropriate by who?
Teachers and Counselors deemed appropriate by who?
Maybe Willie Nelson and Tommy Chong are available to come teach and counsel children in accordance with the values of Fornits.
Authorities deemed appropriate to who? To the State.
Students deemed appropriate to who? To HLA.
HLA claims not to take violent or seriously disturbed children. You know for a fact that is not true. You know that people are looked down upon by Dr. Buccellato if they claim a student is innapropriate.
Teachers and counselors deemed appropriate to who? Again, to HLA.
HLA claims to have all state certified teachers. I assume they claim this because they see value in that and that it would be a good selling point to parents. THOSE ARE HLA'S REPORTED VALUES. HLA is not living up to that. Counselors are supposed to have degrees within the field of counseling, yet you have counselors with degrees in divinity and criminal justice with very little clinical training if any at all. You KNOW that is true.
Many people on this board really just want HLA to live up to its stated standards. Len has chosen not to do that and he is now reeping what he has sown.
There...I have stayed within the points of your discussion. You can now take the opportunity to refute what I have stated.
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What state authority is HLA required to adhere to but doesn't?
How could HLA operate if they do not adhere to a state authority they are required to adhere to?
If HLA determines the appropriateness of its students then any student they deem appropriate would be appropriate. Is that not logical?
Are you stating that Divinity does not prepare someone for counseling? What evidence do you have that these individuals you refer to as inappropriately trained truly do not have quality clinical skills?
Are you positive that a private institution is required to adhere to all of these regulations and authorities or would you just prefer that they did?
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Again the red herring emerges.
You are attempting to detract from the real issues concerning hla by trying to paint us as a group of misguided degenerate hippies who advocate drug use.
Your whole basis for this claim centering on a link to counter culture books?
What makes you think any of us have something to do with what is displayed on this website?
Other than our own post none of us save Deborah as the moderator has any control over the display or content of fornits...but then again you already know that. Youre simply trying to distract parents from the truth.
I'll tell you what though, find me a post from an anti hla adult on here who post regurarly and isnt a troll, advocating drug use and I'll acknowledge you being correct and apologize.
In the meantime:
Authorities appropriate to who?
The legal governing body of Georgia. If hla would become licensed as a theraputic boarding school and stop pretending to be otherwise this would go a long way in my book. Of course they wont do that (willingly) because it would mean oversight from the state.
Student deemed inappropriate by who?
How about common sense? Too vauge? How about hla then? HLA claims they dont admit court ordered kids. Is this correct? Would a child with violent tendecies be appropriate in a non lockdown facility? Do you have kids? Would you want them attending public school with kids that exhibited dangerous destructive behaviors? How about pedophiles? Rapist? Would be murderers? Are these kids appropriate to go to school with your children? How would you feel if they were but your childs school was lying to you about it?
Teachers and Counselors deemed appropriate by who?
I think the department of education on either the state or federal level would be acceptable.
Hope this answers all your questions. Please get back to me on mine just as quick as you can. I'll look forward to it.
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Why don't we continue talking about how my "dream team" could help you get your political agenda of legalized drugs, prostitution and gambling enacted while we shut down the educational system.
Do you actually have anything at all to back this up?
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Robert,
I feel compelled to help you here. First, HLA is a private organization, it is not a public school, it is not a state agency, both of these would require state supervision. Second, most student at HLA have failed to be successful in multiple other settings including public school envirionments, private boarding schools, military schools, wilderness programs and residential treatment facilities. This is the nature of the student with which HLA deals. There are plenty of fine traditional boarding schools available for children. Unfortunately, these students have failed to succeed in these environments.
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What state authority is HLA required to adhere to but doesn't?
They have lied to the state regarding their purpose. Again you know this, by bringing it up you are only highlighting it for newcomers. The school claimed to the SOS, and ORS that they were a traditional boarding school with the primary purpose being education. Anyone who has ever set foot there knows this is not the case. ORS has guidelines for RTC's which hla meets the requirements of and should be licensed as (which again would mean state oversight. Can't have that now can we?) Further they advertise to both parents, ed cons, and online as a theraputic boarding school. Perhaps you can explain the discrepancy.
How could HLA operate if they do not adhere to a state authority they are required to adhere to?
See above answer. They lied to the state.
If HLA determines the appropriateness of its students then any student they deem appropriate would be appropriate. Is that not logical?
Perhaps, except hla admits certian students to the school after claiming to parents and in their literature that they do not. Would you care to argue otherwise?
Are you stating that Divinity does not prepare someone for counseling? What evidence do you have that these individuals you refer to as inappropriately trained truly do not have quality clinical skills?
The evidence would be they never went to school for it, thus they are not trained. Oh and yes divinity does not adequetly prepare someone for counseling. I've met Kees.
Are you positive that a private institution is required to adhere to all of these regulations and authorities or would you just prefer that they did?
A private institution? No probably not. I guess it's a good thing hla has accepted federal funds huh?
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What state authority is HLA required to adhere to but doesn't?
How could HLA operate if they do not adhere to a state authority they are required to adhere to?
If HLA determines the appropriateness of its students then any student they deem appropriate would be appropriate. Is that not logical?
Are you stating that Divinity does not prepare someone for counseling? What evidence do you have that these individuals you refer to as inappropriately trained truly do not have quality clinical skills?
Are you positive that a private institution is required to adhere to all of these regulations and authorities or would you just prefer that they did?
The students are not appropriate if the decision made on their appropriateness is in contradiction to their stated standards. HLA has accepted violent students. HLA has accepted sexual predators. Does this fit in to what HLA deems appropriate, or is it more likely that Len Buccellato needed heads in beds so he compromised HLA's standards. To say that a student is appropriate just because Len gives his stamp of approval is not only arrogant, it is dangerous. There are no checks and balances.
Yes I am stating that a masters in Divinity does not prepare someone for counseling unless the concetration within that degree was counseling. And the criminal justice degree also does not prepare for counseling. Divinity degreed people have routinely been poor counselors at HLA and have a much larger learning curve than MA's in counseling or even MSW's.
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Robert,
I feel compelled to help you here. First, HLA is a private organization, it is not a public school, it is not a state agency, both of these would require state supervision. Second, most student at HLA have failed to be successful in multiple other settings including public school envirionments, private boarding schools, military schools, wilderness programs and residential treatment facilities. This is the nature of the student with which HLA deals. There are plenty of fine traditional boarding schools available for children. Unfortunately, these students have failed to succeed in these environments.
Oh please, allow me to help you. HLA is a private organization ( wait are we talking about the for profit or the non profit versions of hla?) that has accepted federal funds. Further under GA law any RTC private or not is required to be subject to state oversight. Furthermore if everything at HLA is as great as you want people to believe it is, why would they have any reason to avoid state oversight? It would seem to me if it's really that great, they would have nothing to worry about.
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Robert
First, are you certain no private organizations are allowed to accept federal funds?
Second, doesn't government oversight tend to increase cost and reduce efficiency? Ever been to a governement agency to get anything done?
Sounds like HLA is just not living up to your expectations. Thank goodness we live in a Capitalist society so you have other schools to choose from.
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Robert
First, are you certain no private organizations are allowed to accept federal funds?
Second, doesn't government oversight tend to increase cost and reduce efficiency? Ever been to a governement agency to get anything done?
Sounds like HLA is just not living up to your expectations. Thank goodness we live in a Capitalist society so you have other schools to choose from.
Based on your enrollment numbers of late I would say that a lot of people feel they have other schools to choose from and are making that choice.
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First, are you certain no private organizations are allowed to accept federal funds?
No private organizations? That I don't know. HLA however, that one I'm positive on. Not just for the reason that they are a school that accepted federal funding, but because they should be licensed as an RTC and private are not, are therefore subject to state oversight.
Second, doesn't government oversight tend to increase cost and reduce efficiency? Ever been to a governement agency to get anything done?
Let's take this argument a step further shall we? Why don't we remove all government oversight? That way manufacturing plants wouldnt have that pesky EPA always looking over their shoulder increasing cost and reducing effciency. While were at it lets remove all state medical boards. Anyone who wants to be a doctor should get to be a doctor (I know Clay is with me on this) screw any kind of oversight. I think you're really onto something here. As far as reducing cost at HLA Len could always lower salaries by 20% instead of ten. That might save a few dollars. As far as efficency...well Hla has never exactly been a model of that anyway, perhaps the state reps could give them a few pointers. Oh and to answer your question I've been to the post office many many times. They usually get the job done.
Sounds like HLA is just not living up to your expectations. Thank goodness we live in a Capitalist society so you have other schools to choose from.
My expectations? My expectations are that they practice what they cram down kids throats. That they follow state laws. That they be honest in all things. That they not lie to parents. That they treat children with respect and dignity and not just as a cash cow that needs to be silenced. Are these too high for you? As to other schools, from what I've seen most RTCs are the same as hla, many are far worse. As to choices...well remember how much they lie to parents. Not that I as a child had any choice in the matter to begin with.
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Is it not true that RTC are locked units which limit the freedom and mobility of thier clients? If this is true, HLA students roam the campus freely and the campus has no fencing or gates. How does this quality HLA as a RTC?
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I was unaware that one of the requirements to be considered a RTC was lockdown facility. Perhaps you can provide a link proving such a claim? Furthermore inmates at hla are not exactly free to "roam the campus" as you put it.
Were you going to get to any of those other questions?
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Robert,
I apologize for neglecting your other comments. I did not see any particular questions. We seem to have established that there are no state or federal regulatory agencies which can be identified that HLA, as a private organization, must adhere to. Businesses from farms, airlines, and oil companies have received federal funds and subsidies yet remain privately owned and opperated. So I am unsure that HLA is some how now considered a public school. HLA is a boarding school not an RTC.
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Robert
First, are you certain no private organizations are allowed to accept federal funds?
Second, doesn't government oversight tend to increase cost and reduce efficiency? Ever been to a governement agency to get anything done?
Sounds like HLA is just not living up to your expectations. Thank goodness we live in a Capitalist society so you have other schools to choose from.
Any school/program that receives Fed money must follow certain requirements. Being properly licensed for the services provided is one. Can't ride the fence- telling the state you're a private boarding school and the public, a TBS. I challenge you, or any parent, to read the ORS regulations and list the regulations you feel would not be in the participants best interests.
No doubt, oversight would increase costs. There may be a nominal annual fee for the license. Each 'patient' would have a service plan. At $6000 a month, that doesn't seem too much to ask. Regulations would certainly interfere with many of their policies and procedures. They may have to allow contact with family unless proven to be detrimental, to provide adequate calories, to banish some of their barbaric punishments, to name a few. I would think any caring parent would support that.
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We've established huh? :D
Let's take a look at the examples you provided:
farms
Farmer recieve subsidies not to grow certian crops or not to grow them above a set limit. Should they refuse to adhere to these policies they are no longer eligible for federal funding.
airlines
Airlines must follow guidelines set forth by the FAA. Further airline employees are subject to federal ruling. I would assume you are old enough to recall when President Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers for refusing to return to work during a strike? On top of that in the event of an accident the airlines are subject to the findings of the NTSB, again a govt agency.
oil companies
As already established by me the oil companies are subject to the EPA. They are also restricted by the govt as to where they can drill for oil. I suggest you ask an Alaskan or Floridian for any more information on that point.
Now again youre claiming that we've established that HLA is not subject to any govt oversight, yet this is simply not the case. Again you know this. According to the ORS any school private or otherwise that list itself as a special purpose is required to adhere to state oversight. Now Hla claimed to be a traditional boarding school with its primary focus being on education. I doubt even you could argue that is the case, anyone who has been there for longer than five mins knows the primary purpose at hla is and always has been therapy. Furthermore hla can claim it is not a RTC all it wants, yet it somehow meets the criteria, again they were not forthright with the state. On top of all that no one has claimed hla is a public school. I'm also still waiting to hear from why if hla is such a great place they would feel the need to resist oversight.
Also riddle me this, why if all your saying is true, is hla being investigated by so many agencies concerning licensure?
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Deborah,
Gald you could join us. According to the ORS website the following institutions are exempt:
? Any bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education, provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living, shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in the licensing rules.
HLA's primary purpose is to provide education to students who have struggled in traditional settings. They have a curriculum which meets State Department of Education Standards which is why they present diplomas. Students do not reside in the classroom. HLA does not assume legal custody of the students. HLA counselors do not provide casework services.
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Again you can claim this all you like but no one who is familiar with the workings of hla would ever claim that the primary purpose is education.
Stamp your feet and insist all you want it changes nothing. Hence why hla is under the hot lamp so much right now.
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If it is true that HLA is primarily a treatment facility of some type answer the following questions.
Why are students refered by Educational Consultants rather than psychologists, psychologists, M.D.'s, social workers, etc?
Are you assuming that parents primary motivation for sending students to HLA is primarily for treatment rather than education?
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A. Students are sent there by referal of a psychologist/psychatrist, I dont know about social workers but parole officers are often involved.
B. Even though its rude I'm going to answer your question with a question. If the primary purpose of hla is education why is every student ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation either prior to arrival or shortly thereafter? Further why is every student diagnosed with ODD regardless of the results of aforementioned evaluation?
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Robert,
I apologize for neglecting your other comments. I did not see any particular questions. We seem to have established that there are no state or federal regulatory agencies which can be identified that HLA, as a private organization, must adhere to. Businesses from farms, airlines, and oil companies have received federal funds and subsidies yet remain privately owned and opperated. So I am unsure that HLA is some how now considered a public school. HLA is a boarding school not an RTC.
Why the name change, Hunter?
(b) "Child caring institution" means any institution, society, agency, or facility, whether incorporated or not, which either primarily or incidentally provides full-time care for children under 17 years of age outside of their own homes, subject to such exceptions as may be provided in rules and regulations of the Board of Human Resources**. For purposes of these rules, a child caring institution means any institution, society, agency, or facility that provides such care to six or more children.*
No person, partnership, association, corporation or entity shall operate a child caring institution in the state without first obtaining a license to operate the institution by demonstrating compliance with the necessary requirements set forth in these rules. Institutions operated as a part of a local church ministry or religious nonprofit school or a nonprofit religious charitable organization may request to be commissioned in lieu of
licensed. All provisions of these rules shall apply to institutions that request to be commissioned, and for the purposes of these rules, the term license shall have the same meaning as commission.*
Exempt:
1. Child welfare agencies and other facilities and institutions wherein children and youths are detained which are operated by any department or agency of state, county, or municipal government.*
2. Any bona fide boarding school whose primary purpose of admission is education, provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living, shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the
facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in these rules.*
3. Facilities owned and operated by the state or federal government.*
4. Temporary recreational facilities and programs which limit residency to no more than three months, such as summer camps.*
~~
Are you arguing that HLA is not a Child Caring Institution?
Have you reviewed the regulations?
I'm trying to understand why you wouldn't want your child to have the minimal protection that state regs provides.
What kind of parent would advocate for no state oversight to keep costs down?
Did you send your child to HLA for the stellar academic program only? Would you pay $6000/month for your child to be educated by HLA for 18 months?
Would you pay $6000 a month if there was no "therapy"?
Did you deduct any of the "tuition" as a medical expense?
Or write off trips to visit your "disabled" child on your 1040?
Time to get off the fence. Can't have it both ways.
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If it is true that HLA is primarily a treatment facility of some type answer the following questions.
Why are students refered by Educational Consultants rather than psychologists, psychologists, M.D.'s, social workers, etc?
Are you assuming that parents primary motivation for sending students to HLA is primarily for treatment rather than education?
Kids are refered by shrinks and psychologists, including the owner. Last demographic sheet I saw said 60some percent were referred by Ed Cons.
Not sure who refers the court appointed kids. Do you know?
As I asked in my previous post- did you send your kid to HLA for an 18 month stellar academic program?
Why only 18 months?
Why wouldn't you leave your child there for the academic program until they graduate high school?
What kind of 'school' charges $6000 per month and doesn't even have certified teachers or a science lab.
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I guess he got sleepy and went to bed.
Or maybe there were just one too many questions for him to answer.
I guess we'll see whatever stooge they send out next.
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I guess he got sleepy and went to bed.
Or maybe there were just one too many questions for him to answer.
I guess we'll see whatever stooge they send out next.
He probably just dozed off..... things are just rather boring in Arkansas this time of year.
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Let us begin again. Deborah, I am sure that many parents that consider placing their child anywhere for education or for care may consider the questions you raise. State or federal regulation, certification, etc. As you stated, you don't understand why a parent would not want these things. I would state that this is why there are other options since these things are obviously important to you.
The issue is not what a consumer desires in a product but what the provider is required by law to provide. Consumers in our society have multiple options regarding services. Part of being a consumer is finding the right services at the right price for each individual.
The ORS states clearly that as a boarding school HLA is exempt. You may not like this but this is the fact. You may prefer to view HLA as a RTC rather than a boarding school. You may prefer to see America as a rising facist state; you may prefer to believe the world would be better if we could all just get stoned. You are entitled to your opinions. Just recognize that your arguments are designed to pressure a service provider to produce a product you desire but the provider is under no obligation to provide.
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The ORS states clearly that as a boarding school HLA is exempt.
The only reason HLA was exempt is because HLA told ORS their emphasis was on academics, not therapy. All of HLA's advertising states they are a Therapeutic Boarding School. So which one is it: Academic or Therapeutic?
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Let us begin again. Deborah, I am sure that many parents that consider placing their child anywhere for education or for care may consider the questions you raise. State or federal regulation, certification, etc. As you stated, you don't understand why a parent would not want these things. I would state that this is why there are other options since these things are obviously important to you.
The issue is not what a consumer desires in a product but what the provider is required by law to provide. Consumers in our society have multiple options regarding services. Part of being a consumer is finding the right services at the right price for each individual.
The ORS states clearly that as a boarding school HLA is exempt. You may not like this but this is the fact. You may prefer to view HLA as a RTC rather than a boarding school. You may prefer to see America as a rising facist state; you may prefer to believe the world would be better if we could all just get stoned. You are entitled to your opinions. Just recognize that your arguments are designed to pressure a service provider to produce a product you desire but the provider is under no obligation to provide.
Let me get this straight: HLA is a therapeutic boarding school, but is under no obligation to provide therapy? Please explain.
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The Archangels Michael and Raphael attempted to bring the word of God to this unholy place but have been banished by the unholy webmaster. God has no place here and here forth will banish those who continue to do this vile work from the kingdom of heaven.
Dear God:
Why didn't you save the school children at ?. ..
Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
Bethel , Alaska 2/19/97
Pearl , Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah , Kentucky 12/1/97
Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro , Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro , Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville , Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield , Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond , Virginia 6/15/98
Littleton , Colorado 4/20/99
Taber , Alberta , Canada 5/28/99
Conyers , Georgia 5/20/99
Deming , New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson , Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee , California 3/ 5/01 and
El Cajon , California 3/22/01?
Sincerely,
Concerned Student
Reply:
Dear Concerned Student:
I am not allowed in schools.
Sincerely,
God
How did this get started?...
Let's see,
I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
she didn't want any prayer in our schools.
And we said, OK.
Then, someone said you better not
read the Bible in school,
the Bible that says
"thou shalt not kill,
thou shalt not steal,
and love your neighbors as yourself,"
And we said, OK...
Dr. Benjamin Spock said
we shouldn't spank our children
when they misbehaved
because their little personalities
would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.
And we said,
an expert should know what he's talking about
so we won't spank them anymore..
Then someone said
teachers and principals better not
discipline our children when they misbehave.
And the school administrators said
no faculty member in this school
better touch a student when they misbehave
because we don't want any bad publicity,
and we surely don't want to be sued.
And we accepted their reasoning...
Then someone said,
let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
and they won't even have to tell their parents.
And we said, that's a grand idea...
Then some wise school board member said,
since boys will be boys
and they're going to do it anyway,
let's give our sons all the condoms they want,
so they can have all the fun they desire,
and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.
And we said, that's another great idea...
Then some of our top elected officials said
it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.
And we said,
it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President,
does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....
And someone else took that appreciation a step further
and published pictures of nude children
and then stepped further still by
making them available on the Internet.
And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....
And the entertainment industry said,
let's make TV shows and movies that promote
profanity, violence and illicit sex...
And let's record music that encourages
rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...
And we said,
it's just entertainment
and it has no adverse effect
and nobody takes it seriously anyway,
so go right ahead.
Now we're asking ourselves
why our children have no conscience,
why they don't know right from wrong,
and why it doesn't bother them to
kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.
Undoubtedly,
if we thought about it long and hard enough,
we could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"
Dear God,
Where is the Chapel we've waited so many years for and have donated so much money towards? It might be easier for us to embrace God if we had that Chapel.
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I would refer you to the very first post in this string. You seem to believe that a school should provide education without any behavioral altercation at all. This is in line with the political logic that has created much of the current problem. Schools should not discipline children or limit thier freedom in any way. So any school that does could not be primarily educational but must be primarily therapeutic. Of course if a school provides structure and discipline it must be corrupt and sinister. Maybe you should appeal to the supreme court for a final ruling of seperation of education and behavioral modification.
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I would refer you to the very first post in this string. You seem to believe that a school should provide education without any behavioral altercation at all. This is in line with the political logic that has created much of the current problem. Schools should not discipline children or limit thier freedom in any way. So any school that does could not be primarily educational but must be primarily therapeutic. Of course if a school provides structure and discipline it must be corrupt and sinister. Maybe you should appeal to the supreme court for a final ruling of seperation of education and behavioral modification.
No, we believe they should provide THERAPY not "behavioral altercation". Take some time to read through all of the topics and you will find this is the case.
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I disagree with F. Lee here. I want my children to be able to recite clean sterile facts. If it was necessary for my children to have a moral compass or be suitable to live in society the government would not have built jails and prisons. Everyone knows that it is never the uneducated laborers who lead nations to tyranny but the most highly educated amoung society. Look at Hitler and Lenin.
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So you place the expectation that HLA provide therapy first rather than education. Again your expectation.
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So you place the expectation that HLA provide therapy first rather than education. Again your expectation.
Here's what HLA advertises to provide:
C O U N S E L I N G P R O G R A M S
Although most of our students struggle with issues of Oppositional Defiant Disorder, we separate and treat all of our students' needs with specialized attention. Hidden Lake Academy offers a strong therapeutic curriculum, coupled with specialized "adjunct" therapeutic services which address other clinical issues such as; addictive, compulsive and self-destructive behaviors.
While supported in a caring, loving environment, students are taught the lessons of healthy living and the importance of academic achievement. During the course of the therapeutic program at HLA, students move through five sequentially planned counseling segments called Elements. Elements are designed to build on each other progressively, and each Element introduces concepts that are crucial to the student's personal development and success.
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/Counse ... grams.aspx (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/CounselingPrograms.aspx)
Please stop trying to muddle the issues.
Also, Deborah asked you some pretty point-blank questions. Why don't you answer those?
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I see contributors continue to make a mockery of others moral and religious beliefs. I imagine that if the Chapel were completed there would be a debate about the seperation of church and state.
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Please note:
From 6 am to 7 am this morning Michael & Raphael, Hunter Thompson, and F. Lee Bailey have all mispelled the same word. Coincidence? I think not. Maybe someone has a multiple-personality disorder.
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I would refer you to the very first post in this string. You seem to believe that a school should provide education without any behavioral altercation at all. This is in line with the political logic that has created much of the current problem. Schools should not discipline children or limit thier freedom in any way. So any school that does could not be primarily educational but must be primarily therapeutic. Of course if a school provides structure and discipline it must be corrupt and sinister. Maybe you should appeal to the supreme court for a final ruling of seperation of education and behavioral modification.
Woops! Little slip there, eh, Bailey? You said a mouthful there, Jack.
HLA, where kids are subject to "altercations" as a form of therapy. Boy, you unwittingly summed it up quite nicely there...
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I find it striking as well that these (this) poster is the best and brightest HLA has to offer to try to provide damage control.
This is just more evidence to support the claims that HLA employs uneducated, untrained, wholly inappropriate "party-liners."
Let me ask you this: Why are you so diligently (but utterly ineffectively) fighting for HLA when Len has taken everything form you already (cut salary, cut vacation, cut benefits, cut bereavement leave, etc)? How much worse can your job get?
With those items in mind, what motivates a holy-roller like you to advocate for moral defectives like Len? If you are so concerned with righteousness and the word of God, why do you toil for a homosexual?[/b]
You're either a phony or a hypocrite. Pick one.
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Are these posts definitely coming from Dahlonega? Is there a way to tell if they are coming specifically from HLA? If so, that narrows down who it is to someone living on campus.
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Are these posts definitely coming from Dahlonega? Is there a way to tell if they are coming specifically from HLA? If so, that narrows down who it is to someone living on campus.
I have the exact location of the poster. I'll drop you a PM and let you know.
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I would refer you to the very first post in this string. You seem to believe that a school should provide education without any behavioral altercation at all. This is in line with the political logic that has created much of the current problem. Schools should not discipline children or limit thier freedom in any way. So any school that does could not be primarily educational but must be primarily therapeutic. Of course if a school provides structure and discipline it must be corrupt and sinister. Maybe you should appeal to the supreme court for a final ruling of seperation of education and behavioral modification.
You're dodging the question. Is the primary focus of hla education or therapy?
Simple question, let's see if you can't provide a simple answer.
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I see contributors continue to make a mockery of others moral and religious beliefs. I imagine that if the Chapel were completed there would be a debate about the seperation of church and state.
Doubtful and no one is mocking anyones beliefe, rather the poster. In this case you. Please though tell us more about the chapel fund. Where did all that money go? Why has it suddenly reappeared? Give us the rundown.
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I disagree with F. Lee here. I want my children to be able to recite clean sterile facts. If it was necessary for my children to have a moral compass or be suitable to live in society the government would not have built jails and prisons. Everyone knows that it is never the uneducated laborers who lead nations to tyranny but the most highly educated amoung society. Look at Hitler and Lenin.
FALL OUT
Sweetie, It's one thing to post as multiple people, but when you start talking to and disagreeing with yourself.... one has to wonder you are unstable or a skilled con artist.
You're manipulating and deceiving the readers of this forum.
Playing with semanics.
The ORS states clearly that as a boarding school HLA is exempt.
Has ORS ruled on this matter?
HLA's primary purpose is to provide education to students who have struggled in traditional settings.
Is that HLA's official position? Therapy is secondary to education?
I contend that HLA provides education because it's required of any program/facility housing kids 24/7, and secondary to their 18-22 month therapeutic program.
I would wager, that there's never been a parent who sent their child to HLA or any other Therapeutic Boarding School, primarily for education. Nice spin though. And ORS might buy it.
The issue is not what a consumer desires in a product but what the provider is required by law to provide.
The provider is required by law to deliver what they advertise.
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Authorities appropriate to who?
Student deemed inappropriate by who?
Teachers and Counselors deemed appropriate by who?
Maybe Willie Nelson and Tommy Chong are available to come teach and counsel children in accordance with the values of Fornits.
And then again, maybe Dan "The Man" Mansfield will be available to proseletyze our children to values of radical christian fundamentalism.
Is cramming fundamental christianity down the throats of troubled kids now part of your program, Dan? How do you reconcile forcing your narrow religious beliefs onto children of varied religious backgrounds with "therapy" and "education," Dan?
The courts frown upon this type of activity in a counseling environment, Dan.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1625328/posts (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1625328/posts)
Do you let parents of the kids in your peer group know that you are trying to convert their children to your belief system, Dan? I can't imaging this would be looked upon favorably by parents who sent their kids to a non-denominational, secular treatment facility.
I suppose the picture becomes clearer when one examines the stated purpose of Dan's college:
Mission
The purpose of Louisville Presbyterian Theological Seminary is to serve the church and the world by educating men and women for participation in the continuing ministry of Jesus Christ. The seminary's primary goal is to serve the church by equipping those preparing for ordination as ministers of the Word and Sacrament. In addition, the seminary provides education for counselors, educators and other church leaders whose vocation invites professional training integrated with theological reflection. The seminary also serves as an educational resource through continuing education programs for ministers and other officers and members of the church. Through its commitment to scholarly research and teaching, the seminary provides a theological resource for the church by striving to interpret the gospel in an ever-changing world.
(emphasis added)
http://www.pcusa.org/seminaries/seminar ... sville.htm (http://www.pcusa.org/seminaries/seminaries/louisville.htm)
So, Dan, tell us why you took the job at HLA. You certainly aren't qualified to be providing therapy. In fact, you're legally barred from doing so. So are you just there to increase the size of the flock, Dan?
Also, if you are there preaching the Word of God, how do you reconcile the fact that your boss is an abomination in the eyes of your church - a homosexual? Isn't there a conflict of interest for a church man like yourself taking pay from a homosexual?
"Our concern is for the integrity of Scripture, which clearly gives us guidance for every area of life, including the family and chastity. We believe God has ordained that sexual relationships should be between one man and one woman in the context of marriage, and that neither heterosexual relations outside of marriage, or homosexual relations, are appropriate."
(emphasis added)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_pcia3.htm (http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_pcia3.htm)
You hardly seem like the kind of man I'd want mentoring my kid to fit into a diverse society.
Get back to me and we'll discuss it further.
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Read the following advertisement at NATSAP. HLA makes an effort to put equal emphasis on academics and therapy in the first paragraph, but the remainder of the article is directly related to the therapy. If they were primarily educational, wouldn't they focus on their award-winning academics and make mention of therapy?
Hidden Lake Academy (HLA), located on a 215-acre campus one hour north of Atlanta, helps young people make significant gains in emotional maturity and academic achievement. Integral to the HLA program is an equal emphasis on the college-preparatory academic curriculum and sudent's therapeutic work. The Academy's 20 state-certified teachers (including two in the area of special education), 32 Master's-level counselors, and 35 wilderness/recreation staff members* cooperate to help students develop all aspects of their lives: physical, mental, emotional, social, and spiritual. The 9:1 student to teacher ratio ensures individual attention and a return to academic success.
*Are they delivering what they advertise? They aren't supposed to have a wilderness component....
Typical students exhibit oppositional-defiant behavior, low self-esteem, depression, ADHD, deteriorating family relationships, and are making poor choices. Students typically graduate Hidden Lake Academy's therapeutic program with a greatly increased ability and motivation to make decisions that will positively impact their lives.
Hidden Lake Academy utilizes a detailed, sequential therapeutic program which allows for a high degree of program accountability. Each group consists of 14 students and is led by 2 to 3 Master's-level counselors. Students participate in three group counseling sessions per week (7 hours).
In addition to group therapy, an addictions education course, planned and staffed by specialists in this field,** is included in each student's experience. A wilderness component-consisting of a series of exciting and challenging experiences including two, four, and seven-day wilderness trips, rock climbing and rappelling days, a ropes course, and canoeing is carefully integrated into a program. A staff chaplain provides ample opportunities for spiritual development for students of all faiths and coordinates extensive community services projects and numerous off-campus trips. HLA competes in the Atlanta Athletic Conference. Studens participate in basketball, volleyball, baseball, soccer, wrestling, tennis, softball, golf and track. Sports are balanced by strong Drama and Fine Arts Departments.
**and the specialists are? Last I checked, neither possesed certification as Addiction Counselors.
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I would appreciate anyone from HLA giving a list of the performances that the fine drama department has put on over the last 11 years. I am sure that prospective parents would love to have a list of the plays and musicals that have been performed. This would show that you indeed have a very good drama department.
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Why is all the discussion at NATSAP focused on Therapy in the member programs? If HLA and the rest were 'schools' with their primary purpose being education wouldn't they be focused on research in the area of education and not 'empirical studies' on therapeutic techniques?
Journal of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (JTSP)
The NATSAP Journal of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (JTSP) is now available. You may request your copy by sending a Request for JTSP to the NATSAP office as indicated on the request.
For more information on the Journal of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (JTSP), select the topic of interest.
Journal Editions and Table of Contents
Purpose of the Journal
Submitting Articles for Publication in the Journal
Purpose of the Journal
The Journal has the goal of prodding the NATSAP membership to think more deeply about our profession. We support all employees of NATSAP programs in their continuing development toward becoming more thoughtful, reflective practitioners who contribute to improving our work with children and families. We encourage and welcome empirical research in the JTSP, and we also encourage thoughtful reviews, clinical case studies, and considerations of education, recreation, program, risk management, and program management as well. We encourage each of us to think and write about what we are doing to stimulate involvement and progress, as well as provide a forum to explore important ideas that are so intrinsic to our work.
Michael Gass, Ph.D. from the University of New Hampshire and Keith Russell, Ph.D. from the University of Minnesota hold the editorial and managerial responsibilities for the Journal of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (JTSP). Both Dr. Gass and Dr. Russell have extensive professional publication and research experience that will continue to help us create professionally credible journals.
Submitting Articles for Publication in the Journal
We are accepting articles for future issues of the Journal of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (JTSP) and encourage submissions that help us better understand aspects of our field surrounding program design, development, implementation and evaluation. Topics pertaining to specific treatment approaches, particularly innovative ones and those directed toward special populations and other clients with special needs are solicited. Submissions related to management and leadership approaches are welcomed as are those related to staff recruitment, selection, training and retention as well as general policies related to personnel management. Articles that share thoughts regarding inter-disciplinary integration as well as those that focus on critical incident planning and governmental/regulatory relationships and funding issues would be highly valued. Submissions relating extant theory to clinical practice would be welcomed as would papers that produce findings resulting from clinical research of relevance, though it must be emphasized that JTSP is intended to share information of a nature useful to member programs, and is not intended to be a publication with purely academic relevance.
Those interested in submitting for the Journal are requested to follow the Instructions for Authors available on this website. Dr. Gass and Dr. Russell are willing to assist authors, particularly those without previous publication experience, in crafting their articles for publication. Volumes of the Journal of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (JTSP) will be published at the beginning and middle of each year.
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What's the matter Danny? Did you prefer that we only refer to you as anyone of your multiple personalities? Are you going to come back and argue with yourself some more? How about not answering any questions put to you? Did Len authorize you to come on here and speak for hla? If he didnt how does he feel now that he knows. That cant be the best uses of school resources now can it?
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What does NATSAP stand for again?
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The wilderness component was crap to say the least, and when recomendations to improve it, and enhance it, one person at RCI got all bent out of shape and the word from on high was that the focus was on THERAPY, and the wilderness component was far down the list even though it is a major part of the curriculum. So they do not even follow thier own curriculum.
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National Assoc of Therapeutic Schools and Programs
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Wait.....so what youre saying is that HLA is part of a group called NATSAP which stands for National Association of Theraputic Schools and Programs....and that it was founded by Len, but they aren't a theraputic school?
Sounds reasonable to me.
:roll:
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So, let us review what we have established so far:
Robert Bruce appears to be unsure of anything since most of his answers are either "I don't know" or "I'm not sure". He seems unable to provide a real clear explaination for what he believes other than the fact that HLA is not complying with it.
Deborah is chasing her tail. She can't seem to figure out which came first. Did the child not succeed in traditional settings due to behavior and thus need therapy first or did the child struggle with academics and need tutoring first? I understand the difficulty. Who knows? Maybe both. Give it time it will come to you.
Of course who can forget Dysfunction. Love her most of all. Any time a person sees they are beginning to lose an argument the easiest way out is a personal attack. You know like, "your mama". Her favorite out is "you work for a homosexual". This is, of course, in keeping with the reading club advertised above which suggests that America is becoming Nazi Germany. This of course is easy to suggest since they have active party members as supporters of this site.
Lastly, despite all efforts this brilliant axis of evil remains completely oblivious as to who I am. They have been able to run down the list of usual suspects but remain unaware. Here is the first clue. I am not affiliated with HLA. I only know about all of this because I am a local and I support HLA. I don't speak on behalf of HLA but only to show the ignorance of this site.
I would like to hear from other unbiased individuals who have been witness to this illogical debate to chime in as well. Love ya, FLB
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Ooops, I almost forgot. They also have be being a multi-personality disorder. They are so crafty.
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We hate to break it to you, but you are posting from HLA...do they frequently allow townies to enter their school and let them use their computers...?
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Careful how you respond to this guy. He's literally having a psychotic break with reality. Under normal circumstances I'd be taking full advantage of it, but he's extremely unpredictable right now and he still is in a position to hurt children.
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Oh poor delusional Danny. I would have thought you'd be well aware of our ability to trace IP's by now. For that reason we know that you posted under multiple screen names all from HLA computers.
If you'd like to continue to delude yourself by all means, the conversations you have with yourself prove to be very entertaining to say the least.
As to your previous rantings, you are of course entitled to them. Anyone however who has read so much as two or three lines from any of the trio you mentioned knows your descriptions are off base to say the least.
While at the same time you continue to evade the questions that you fear will paint you into a corner. Again anyone who reads two or three lines from any of your personalities knows this to be the case.
In case you'd like to prove me wrong one of many questions that remains for you to answer is this: Is the primary focus of hla education or therapy.
A simple question requiring a simple answer.
See if one of the three of you can't handle it.
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Not sure who Danny is but I'll bite Robert. Education
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I see. If that's the case then can you explain why therapy is attended three times a week?
Why HLA advertises as a Theraputic Boarding School?
Why a psychatric evaluation is a required part of addmission?
Why completion of the program is not contigent upon academics but upon the level of therapy?
Get back to me on those.
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I know many of you have been in your cabins for a while waiting for the ATF, FEMA, DEA or the Illuminati to come crashing through your door, but they now have wireless routers at HLA.
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To answer your question the easiest way. Yes. But you are not interested in this.
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The last time I was in a cabin it was because the hla staff locked me in one in a pathetic attempt to keep me there.
I guess it was some sort of academic exercise huh?
Tell us though, why would some random person from town stroll onto campus just to use his laptop? Even more so what were you doing there after the kids have all gone to bed?
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Given the way you describe your experiences at HLA, you must have been one of those students that they are now saying are dangerous and should not be admitted. Given you fascination with HLA, I feel sure of it.
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To answer your question the easiest way. Yes. But you are not interested in this.
Really? It seems he is interested considering his question. I for one would like to know more about this both common and safe practice.
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Given the way you describe your experiences at HLA, you must have been one of those students that they are now saying are dangerous and should not be admitted. Given you fascination with HLA, I feel sure of it.
Well even if I had been considered dangerous we both know I still would have been admitted. Since the only criteria for admitting students is the assurance that their parents can pay the tuiton, me being dangerous would not have made a difference. Then or now.
Now go answer the questions.
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I have entered into a battle of wits with unarmed people. Yes, I am Michael & Raphael, Hunter Thompson and F. Lee Bailey. I came to this site seeking out answers to all of the reasons hostility is directed at HLA from this site. All I have found are a very few adults who seem to be shaking in thier pajamas too afraid to reveal their names or stand for their beliefs. They claim that they are witness to abuse of children but have no spine to stand on these accusations. Sadly, I am more convienced by your radical reading list, lack of logical thought and inability to formulate an argument without personal attack. I'm sure that you will proclaim my departure as some futile victory of yours but I really just have a life. I hope each of you find one outside of fornits soon. Keep the bong burning and free the weed.
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Oh well, another cheap and easy source of entertainment gone to waste. I'm sure another one will take his place soon.
I find it strange though that he disappears as soon as he's faced with a series of difficult questions.
After all sorts of proof, documentation, and countless testimonies detailing the reality of hla this current puppet is so far brainwashed he is unable to see the truth. No matter, parents can, and do. The courts can, and state agencies can.
In the end they are all that matter, brainwashed multiple personality puppets do not.
Now go run up to the Little General's house and tell him his latest plan was foiled by those medelsome kids again.
I'll pray he shows you mercy.
Oh one last thing
I'm sure that you will proclaim my departure as some futile victory of yours but I really just have a life
Well it's not really futile, in that you pointed out yet another red flag that parents need to be alerted to. HLA apparently allows random people who are not affiliated with the school to stroll about campus all hours of the night. So while the main victory will of course be won by us in the court room, scaring you off was a minor victory nonetheless. In the mean time I guess you better get back to that "life" of yours. The one where you spend every night roaming a theraputic boarding school for no apparent reason.
G'Night champ!
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Say what you will but I am finding part of this humorous. This multiple personality person called Dysfunction a "she" several times. They havent been following the game very long have they. I found that funny, sorry.
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I know Bullfrog, he's as crazy as you are!
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I have entered into a battle of wits with unarmed people. Yes, I am Michael & Raphael, Hunter Thompson and F. Lee Bailey. I came to this site seeking out answers to all of the reasons hostility is directed at HLA from this site. All I have found are a very few adults who seem to be shaking in thier pajamas too afraid to reveal their names or stand for their beliefs. They claim that they are witness to abuse of children but have no spine to stand on these accusations. Sadly, I am more convienced by your radical reading list, lack of logical thought and inability to formulate an argument without personal attack. I'm sure that you will proclaim my departure as some futile victory of yours but I really just have a life. I hope each of you find one outside of fornits soon. Keep the bong burning and free the weed.
You can't answer a simple question or provide a logical explanation (one more of your misspelled words) to any question or scenario presented to you.
You are nothing more than a cockroach that scatters when the lights come on and exposes what was hidden in the dark.
PS - Why didn't they teach you how to spell and the proper use of the English language at LPTS?
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Oh im afraid he's much worse than I am, at least I didnt insult Hunter S. Thompson! That's just..........wrong!
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Ooops, I almost forgot. They also have be being a multi-personality disorder. They are so crafty.
Your IP is registered to "mail.hiddenlakeacademy.com"
You are a LIAR. How does that fit in with holiness?
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F. Lee Bailey Wrote:
This is, of course, in keeping with the reading club advertised above which suggests that America is becoming Nazi Germany.
Let me get this straight, F. Lee...
You say that because of a couple of counterculture and sociology books (that have nothing to do with the beliefs of any posters, BTW) are listed on this website that we espouse their philosophy.
Very intelligent conclusion there, Dan. You're a real genius.
Let's use your logic, shall we, to talk about HLA.
HLA is a behavior modification center created and run by a sodomite homosexual for the express purpose of turning children into little sodomite homosexuals.
If Fornits is teaching "doper values" it NECESSARILY FOLLOWS, by your own logic that HLA is teaching HOMOSEXUAL VALUES.
Way to be, Churchie. Your flock must be very proud of your values. Or maybe you're still "closeted"?
There. Can't argue with that, can you Dan? Why do you support a place like that, Dan? Is it only because you're sucking the HLA teat getting paid for a job for which you are entirely unqualified and legally barred from performing elsewhere and living on campus for free like a welfare case?
Your time would be better spent preparing your resume for your next assignment. It won't be long now...
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Given the way you describe your experiences at HLA, you must have been one of those students that they are now saying are dangerous and should not be admitted. Given you fascination with HLA, I feel sure of it.
Thank you for finally admitting that HLA does, in fact, admit "dangerous students" who "should not be admitted."
You said it. And it's true.
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I know many of you have been in your cabins for a while waiting for the ATF, FEMA, DEA or the Illuminati to come crashing through your door, but they now have wireless routers at HLA.
That's great. Wireless routers have an unobstructed range of about 100 feet (I used to be a radio frequency engineer and have built many, many wireless LANs and WIPOP sites).
So now you've admitted to trespassing and theft of services as well. Ladies and gentlemen, criminals support HLA's mission. Petty thieves and trespassers are the base of HLA's support. Fantastic. Should I report your IP address and MAC address to the local PD for investigation of theft of services and trespassing?
That's all good for a laugh. "I'm not an employee living on campus using HLA's computers! I am merely a pedophile who likes to trespass and sneak around at night peeking at children while stealing services from HLA!"
Anyway, get real. We already know who you are and if you keep insisting it's not true, I'll happily extract your personal information (files, credit card numbers, whatever) from your computer and post it for everyone to see. Wanna play? Let's do it. Say the word.
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Oh yeah, I forgot to mention to HLA parents that this is the kind of morally defective people that are looking after your children for you. Thieves, liars and hypocrites. Is this what you paid for? A phony minister who lies about his own identity rather than fight "the good fight," pretends to be multiple people, degrades and humiliates previous victims of HLA for fun and is literally so desperate to hang on to his pathetic job (because he's unemployable elsewhere and he knows it) that he'd stoop to this level while simultaneously striking others down on a moral basis?
$6000 bucks a month to have radical fundamentalism jammed down your kid's throat by a phony, lying sinner. Sounds like a great deal. :roll:
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Oh im afraid he's much worse than I am, at least I didnt insult Hunter S. Thompson! That's just..........wrong!
Oh I know! I just mean he's as crazy and stupid as you in that he refuses to see the truth about hla even when its staring him in the face. The same as you. He also, just like you becomes a coward everytime there are a couple of questions he cant handle answering. Just like you.
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Robert I have reasons I cannot share with you on why I do not wish to discuss HLA's issues on this board right now. Believe me it is neither cowardice, fear, stupidity, or any other thing you have stated. Just leave it alone will ya? I cannot tell you why, just let it go.
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Oh Bullfrog we all already know the reasons why. You got a phone call telling you to shut your stupid mouth about things you know nothing of.
I'm sorry if you thought there was some sort of mystery there but we all know about it and who was on the other end of that phone call. I'm just saddened that I wasnt there to see your face when it happened.
I still think you owe us all an apology.
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Robert there was no phone call, and no "person" telling me to do anything. Nobody told me to shut my mouth or anything of the sort. Nobody told me to do anything. My reasons are my personal business. But as usual, youll believe whatever you want and post it here to create whatever scenario is beneficial to you. I dont want to discuss HLA due to reasons that are none of your business. I am not going to discuss, agree, disagree, insult, apologize, or otherwise talk about HLA, period. Do you understand now? Is that clear enough for you? Whatever you hope happens, keep on dreaming. Whatever you feel about my decision being wrong, right, or cowardly etc, is not the true picture. I am not discussing HLA with you or anybody else on this board, end of story. Leave it alone, leave me alone, and move onto something else. Please. Its getting a little obsessive. I am neither the cause of your pain nor the perpetrator of any abuses to anybody. Please just, let it die, seriously. I am asking nicely, Robert. Do not ask again. Thank you.
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Sooooo....when can we expect that apology you stupid cowardly child abusing cow?
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Robert- glad to see you took the admonition to treat people with a little more courtesy. you are a piece of work. i guess it's easy to hide behind a keyboard and act like a big man
you are a sorry joke and i'm embarrassed for you
:silly:
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You may feel embarresed for me if you choose, help yourself to it as I can assure I do not feel ashamed in the slightest. In fact I'm proud of each and everyone of my actions on this board. All the puppets I've put to shame, all the truths I've helped bring to light about the God awful place, my assisting in bringing about the end result...As far as my dealings with Shh specifically well I'll give you the same advice I gave to the other person. Run a search under her name, you'll see she's brought every insult and every comment onto herself. She deserves everything she gets and a bit more.
She came on here attacking hla survivors, called us liars and said babeled on and on about how great hla was. She made a series of bullshit claims, and when shown the truth about hla she was far too brainwashed and too stupid to see the truth. SHE REFUSED TO SEE IT. She ignored the most obvious of truths, finally even her ex husband had to leave hla. When that occured something snapped in old Susie Q. She suddenly claimed she "had no opinion" on hla. This despite the fact she ran her mouth incessantly for a year and a half about how wonderful it was and how we were all liars. This along with her pretending to be multiple people, trying to attack posters from the shadows. When that was brought to light she still feigned innocence and never once accepted respondsibility for her actions or apologized.
With all that like I said she deserves everything she gets, and then some.
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Robert, what does it make you look like to be the self-appointed one to give everyone what you think they deserve? you look like a spiteful jerk. oh, wait- you are one
:silly:
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Again think what you like. It makes zero difference to me. I treat everyone in the exact same manner they treat others. Susie came on here ranting and raving, claiming we were all liars and were making our claims about hla up.
Same as Lynn
Same as Aften
Same as Lance
Same as Hunter/F. Lee/Raphael aka Dan
Same as many others.
They all got exactly what they asked for.
You claim I'm a jerk yet you fail to mention the behavior of any of these previous people.
Why is that?
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And what exactly was it that all these heinous people asked for? And who appointed you the guardian of doling it out?
You have been told how completely asinine those kind of statements are. Of course you care. you care so much you spend your entire life attacking people on the internet.
why do people leave the forum? people with all viewpoints leave. the reason is because it becomes crushingly boring listening to the premature gloating and ugliness constantly vomited up by you so-called regulars. it is no great victory for you. it isn't even a contest. it is simply a sad little exercise in bitterness and simple meanness.
:silly:
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why do people leave the forum? people with all viewpoints leave. the reason is because it becomes crushingly boring listening to the premature gloating and ugliness constantly vomited up by you so-called regulars. it is no great victory for you. it isn't even a contest. it is simply a sad little exercise in bitterness and simple meanness.
Karen dear,
Have you taken a poll? People are actually compelled to return, just like yourself, even if it's just to get in an anonymous jab.
IF I were in the mood I'd pull up some of your old classics, like.... JulietheGreat... or DysfunktionJunktion..... but, the 'regulars' remember their content well.
You can go on and on with Robert if you like... but while you're here, how about contributing your thoughts, as a dyed-in-the-wool program supporter, regarding the creation of a specific catagory and regulations for TBSs.
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=19064 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=19064)
Good idea? Bad idea?
Might the participants benefit from such licensing and regulation.
Might RB be less angry had HLA been following these regs explicitly?
His anger may be unpleasant for you and may even be misplaced at times, but it's justified.
What drives your's?
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And what exactly was it that all these heinous people asked for?
To be treated rudely.
And who appointed you the guardian of doling it out?
They did.
You have been told how completely asinine those kind of statements are. Of course you care. you care so much you spend your entire life attacking people on the internet.
Care about what exactly? Care that a few child abuse supporters get their feelings hurt? No I don't. As to my life, well I assure its much busier than you imagien.
why do people leave the forum?
That depends....
people with all viewpoints leave
Well people who are anti-hla often leave because they are threatened by the pro hlaers. The pro hla people usually leave because they are to weak and stupid to answer a couple questions. Either that or they are exposed. See last night for an example.
the reason is because it becomes crushingly boring listening to the premature gloating and ugliness constantly vomited up by you so-called regulars. it is no great victory for you. it isn't even a contest. it is simply a sad little exercise in bitterness and simple meanness.
Yet again you ignore the actions of others....typical.
Why is this?
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Oh Karen Karen Karen.
This just couldnt get any better.
Idiot.
You like all the others have repeatedly gotten exactly what you deserve.
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Yet she goes so quiet all the sudden now. Why is that Karen?
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Karen is a dope. I PM'ed all the people she argues with at College Confidential and linked them to her posts on ST and here. They had a LAUGH RIOT! Each and every one of them said the same thing. "She's a holier-than-thou, pushy, arrogant asshole who loves to start fights with people 1/3 of her age..." (paraphrased)
Karen, are you begging for me to contact your company and let them know where to read your opinions (not talking legal documents, here either :wink: ) and how you use their equipment to do it? LP is not going to be happy with you, Karen. Not at all, I'm afraid. Very, very unethical and revealing comments you have posted here and elsewhere, Karen. I'm not sure how beliefs like yours play in Tennessee. Then again, I could just send ol' Kiley the links. I'm sure he'd be oh-so-proud of you, Karen. Keep pushing.
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Oh please please do it. Bury the stupid bitch. This just keeps getting funnier and funnier all the time.
Karen like all these others YOU'RE GETTING EXACTLY WHAT YOU DESERVE!!!!
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Robert, what does it make you look like to be the self-appointed one to give everyone what you think they deserve? you look like a spiteful jerk. oh, wait- you are one
A little projection there, Karen? YOU happen to be the biggest loser ever to post on Fornits. Just look at your OWN behavior, dolt. You've got a 42 page thread dedicated entirely to your asinine comments and behavior. YOU'RE the top dog in any idiocy poll, Karen. Get a grip. Get a life. Move on...
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Oh Karen, don't let being exposed stop you from running your mouth. I mean honestly stupid, it isnt the first time.
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I would refer you to the very first post in this string. You seem to believe that a school should provide education without any behavioral altercation at all. This is in line with the political logic that has created much of the current problem. Schools should not discipline children or limit thier freedom in any way. So any school that does could not be primarily educational but must be primarily therapeutic. Of course if a school provides structure and discipline it must be corrupt and sinister. Maybe you should appeal to the supreme court for a final ruling of seperation of education and behavioral modification.
Define BM. If you're talking about BM, HLA/CEDU style, no need to appeal to the supreme court. Depriving kids of food and contact with their parents as punishment would not be allowed in any public or private school, or any bonefide psychiatric hospital for that matter. For good reason. The same reason it's not allowed in prisons. Not to mention the more heinous punishments employed by HLA, which you apparently consider appropriate "discipline".
Where do you draw the line between "discipline" and abuse, Mr F. Lee?
Justify severing contact between parent and child, as a blanket policy. I'd like to see a genuine boarding school attempt to do this, or deny a home visit for "therapeutic" reasons.
Let's see a genuine boarding school require daily group therapy or attendence in AA meetings.
Let's see a genuine boarding school hold an all night Fall Out or require a student to clean a dumpster with a toothbrush.
Let's see a parent get by with any of this.
No. HLA should have to defend its methods and policies before the Supreme Court.
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I'd rather see them defend themselves before some local hole-in-the-wall court, with a mean jury and a judge with a great distaste for child abuse.
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SUE SCHEFF WINS $11.3 MILLION FOR INTERNET DEFAMATION
Susan Scheff and her Weston-based company, Parents Universal Resource Experts Inc., won the jury verdict in Broward Circuit Court in Florida against Carey Bock for posting defamatory statements about her on an internet bulletin board viewed by parents, according to court pleadings. Ms. Scheff was represented by David Pollack, of the Law Offices of David H. Pollack, LLC.
The Broward Circuit Court jury sent a strong message that freedom of speech has limits, and the case will make people think twice before setting out on a campaign to destroy others.
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SUE SCHEFF WINS $11.3 MILLION FOR INTERNET DEFAMATION
Susan Scheff and her Weston-based company, Parents Universal Resource Experts Inc., won the jury verdict in Broward Circuit Court in Florida against Carey Bock for posting defamatory statements about her on an internet bulletin board viewed by parents, according to court pleadings. Ms. Scheff was represented by David Pollack, of the Law Offices of David H. Pollack, LLC.
The Broward Circuit Court jury sent a strong message that freedom of speech has limits, and the case will make people think twice before setting out on a campaign to destroy others.
I believe the difference here is that most of the claims that folks make on this board, not all, can be backed up with some fact. While there are surely some folks on this board who are just disgruntled kids, parents, and ex employees, many of these people have some legitimate complaints. HLA will have its day in court. If the judge agrees with HLA then they will be fine. If not, it will be a sad day for them.
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SUE SCHEFF WINS $11.3 MILLION FOR INTERNET DEFAMATION
Susan Scheff and her Weston-based company, Parents Universal Resource Experts Inc., won the jury verdict in Broward Circuit Court in Florida against Carey Bock for posting defamatory statements about her on an internet bulletin board viewed by parents, according to court pleadings. Ms. Scheff was represented by David Pollack, of the Law Offices of David H. Pollack, LLC.
The Broward Circuit Court jury sent a strong message that freedom of speech has limits, and the case will make people think twice before setting out on a campaign to destroy others.
F. Lee, Hunter, Warning,
Here's a warning for you.
Don't flood the forum.
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SUE SCHEFF WINS $11.3 MILLION FOR INTERNET DEFAMATION
Susan Scheff and her Weston-based company, Parents Universal Resource Experts Inc., won the jury verdict in Broward Circuit Court in Florida against Carey Bock for posting defamatory statements about her on an internet bulletin board viewed by parents, according to court pleadings. Ms. Scheff was represented by David Pollack, of the Law Offices of David H. Pollack, LLC.
The Broward Circuit Court jury sent a strong message that freedom of speech has limits, and the case will make people think twice before setting out on a campaign to destroy others.
I believe the difference here is that most of the claims that folks make on this board, not all, can be backed up with some fact. While there are surely some folks on this board who are just disgruntled kids, parents, and ex employees, many of these people have some legitimate complaints. HLA will have its day in court. If the judge agrees with HLA then they will be fine. If not, it will be a sad day for them.
No difference. Bock's comments were backed with fact. She just lacked the resource to defend herself. Which was extremely unfortunate.
The fiasco played out here of Fornits. Scheff was very obviously upset that Bock posted her deposition which exposed much of the fraud Bock had accused her of, as well as the programs Scheff refered to.
I might add, that Bock did so only after Scheff or one of her anon allies, had posted Bock's deposition, before Bock even had a copy.
What can be said of a woman who pulls her daughter out of a program she feels is abusive, yet continues to refer parents and collect the referral fees? Or continues to refer minors to a program that is being investigated for abuse/neglect?
This is not intended as a defense of Bock. I didn't agree with all of her descisions and actions, but she had been lied to and manipulated by so many in the industry, it's my opinion, that she didn't know who to trust or where to turn.
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Danny back again? I thought you were too busy with your life to post on here? Oh silly me. Its not dark enough yet for you to start roaming the campus,
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You know I'm wondering if we werent off on the identity of our favorite night stalker.
This qualified HLA staff member seems to not only fit the profile but like our our multiple personality friend likes children.
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/loadPr ... userID=140 (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/loadProfile.aspx?userID=140)
See...he enjoys his two daughters.
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I have entered into a battle of wits with unarmed people. Yes, I am Michael & Raphael, Hunter Thompson and F. Lee Bailey. I came to this site seeking out answers to all of the reasons hostility is directed at HLA from this site. All I have found are a very few adults who seem to be shaking in thier pajamas too afraid to reveal their names or stand for their beliefs. They claim that they are witness to abuse of children but have no spine to stand on these accusations. Sadly, I am more convienced by your radical reading list, lack of logical thought and inability to formulate an argument without personal attack. I'm sure that you will proclaim my departure as some futile victory of yours but I really just have a life. I hope each of you find one outside of fornits soon. Keep the bong burning and free the weed.
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Damn, this was a funny thread. Whatever happened to Mike/Ralph/Hunter/F. Lee et al?
:rofl:
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Probably got laid off and has no reason to defend HLA anymore. Or maybe that paycut took internet service off the table in his tight little budget.