Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 03, 2006, 01:51:24 AM
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I was in one of these programs - I am 33 and stumbled across this s- It has brought up alot of memories some good some bad - I have heard the testimony about the abuse etc. In my program I witnessed some instances where people were restrained, this did not happen often and was in only in extreme circumstances - I can easily see how in other programs that this kind of thing happened more frequently even daily I think it depended on the culture of each individual program how bad the restraining got - I have very conflicting emotions about the whole thing - do I think I was brainwashed - yes- do I think I was imprisoned - yes - do I think it broke the kid down - yes - what is said on these forums is all true - it happened - I had a difficult program -when I first got in I thought I was in the twilight zone but like most kids I learned quickly that to get out you better start getting in line - and the next thing I know I am on 5th phase - pretty quickly- then one day when i was home on my day off I took off - and was caught several days later and my parents took me back - sat on 1st phase for 150 days - I didn;t speak to anyone for about 90 days - sat in that chair and fantasized about how I could break out or kill myself- it is difficult to write that down - one day it just clicked and I got myself through it and graduated - and I have had a pretty good life ever since but the place still haunts me -personally I don;t think I could have gotten better without such a dramatic therapy but at the same time I hate the place - I kind of think of the program as medical warning on a pharmaceutical - take for instance chemotherapy - chemo helps people from dying from cancer but it also has serious side effects that can damage other parts of the body - and this is how the program is - it can be good for those who really need such a dramatic therapy but you are risking yourself to the side effects bad memories, nightmares, anxiety, paranoia- I think this is where all the programs do not tell the whole story to the parents - remember all our parents were at their wits end, they didn;t know what to do with me as 15 year old smoking pot, completely rebellious to any authority figure, I think in their mind they did the right thing and then they get brainwashed just as us kids did which then caused a host of other problems for the kids cause your parents would end up talking just like one of your staff members - when i realized that I knew there was no way out of that place - so I ask myself what is the alternative solution to a program like this that could help the kid out but not leave the extra baggage that you carry with you for the rest of your life- I don;t know - personally I don;t think it can be done- for people as messed up as me your sense of moral compass is so schewed that it must be corrected in a drastic way - I think the program accomplishes that by making you feel guilty for every little thought you have, they teach you to analyze yourself, thoughts and actions so much that you feel guilty for everything and that is no way to live and nearly make you an incapable human being I think that is why they have all those harsh rules and punishments for the least of infractions - by the time you are on your 7th step 6 months you try and get that compass back to a more normal standard which I had a very hard time doing and I even after 17 years i still don't feel completely normal- that is where the program really begins - how to get yourself back to normal - and I think most kids just couldn;t do it which I can see why cause it is hard after going through so much of a traumatic experience - I can see why it was hard it was hard for me and I can easily imagine during certain times in my life just letting it go and telling myself I would rather drink than do what is necessary to keep straight- I was completely straight for about 14 years and then my wife and I hit a rough patch and one night I went out and drank some beer, I didn;t even finish the thing - but for 14 years I remembered what the program told me that I would go back to being a druggies that my life would go to shambles but I woke up the next morning, went to work, had a good day, didn't even feel that bad that I drank after such a long time - my wife and I worked things out and every now and then we have a glass or wine - i felt a sense of freedom that I did not have for a long time it was a real strange experience but at the same time I can see why a kid who took 400 days to get to 4th phase and got started over back to 1st would want to kill themselves - I know they just sat there and wondered how and the hell am I going to get back to 4th phase or even graduate and the wrath of group on these people who got sent back or came back from running like I did was absolutely horrible I really feel bad for the stories of those folks who were in there that didn;t need to be in there, the kids who had a bad attititude, smoke pot once, drank a few times I just couldn;t imagine living in that place knowing that I had no drug problem and the crazy thing was even those kids would end up thinking they needed to be in there after a few days or months- I really do think it was an occult type experience, I even wrote my parents and told them to look at this site, and even though I don;t think I would have maybe made it to adulthood without it I am haunted by the fact of my memories there - I mean it can;t be that good if after 17 years it haunts me to this day the ridicult from group, the loneliness I felt but it is weird cause I can remember happy times too I also find it strange that when I contact people who i was in the program with that I have this undeniable unbreakable bond with people I haven;t spoken to in years cause of the experience that we went through together - even the ones who chastised me - like I said I can;t disagree with the people's testimonies here, they were as I remember and this forum has opened up memories that i haven';t thought about for years and I feel sorry for myself and all those who were in the place - I just hope we can all myself included can move on from our experience there whether we feel it was all good- some good some bad or all bad - I think all our feelings are justified - but my deepest regret is for those kids who really didn;t need to be in there but does that mean it is ok for those who needed to be in there to have to go through such hell - i would have to say no that too but there has to be people out there that admit that they were in a bad way that they were really going down hill or were already at the bottom - what kind of program should be developed for those that need it that a general concensus would deem appropriate? I have no idea
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Thanks for your post and welcome to the forum. Kinda a crazy place($tr8 and this forum) but always interesting to read what other survivors think about their experiences. Peace.
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what kind of program should be developed for those that need it that a general concensus would deem appropriate? I have no idea
I don't know about a general concensus. Shit, the concensus seems to be that McDonald's sells good food and TV Guide is the best periodical out there. I know that addiction is not a disease, therefore there is not treatment extant or needed.
The Program never was about drugs. It was, is and ever shall be about control. Drugs just happened to be a handy hot button to use on Americans at the time, just like the Germans bought into fear of Semites. And it's just as damned silly, too. Semite is synonymous w Aryan. It just means all the people of Arabic blood. But there's a high place for Aryans in the old Germanic religions and cultures that the NAZI's (Nationalist Socialist Workers Party) had to work with, so they just went along w/ the rediculous fiction that they themselves were Aryans and the real Aryian immigrants were some other, hated, Semitic race. Similarly, just about all the pro program people I know (including all of my family) are on hard drugs. Their drugs are things like Prozac and Xanex when they're attending meetings or good old fashioned ethyl when they're not.
I think the reason why this shit haunts us all so is because we're surrounded by reminders of it. The more DARE license plates I see around here the more dedicated I am to building that crux house out in the hills.
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I don;t know all the answers. I know that there are people who want to get off drugs and there should be a way to go about it. For adults there should be a way to go about it - for children - most do not want to get help - I am a parent now and I dread the possibility that if my kid gets hooked on drugs and is determined to screw his life up what I would do - do I just let him or do I intervene - i believe my reaction would be similar to my own parents and that is to intervene- but I think there has got to be a better way to go about it than one of these places that I was in cause of for as much good it did it cause alot of things bad which is proven by the fact that I am even reading this site after 17 years- everyone here is against the programs like these - and I agree with the reasons why - but what is the alternative that would be successful? The feeback that I have read say that the 30 day programs that are less intense don;t work -
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I do not believe anyone can be an alcoholic before age 16. The personality is just finished being formed at 16.
These are the things that had happend in the same year I went to Straight:
My select soccer team won state championship and because there was no USA championship, my soccer team broke up and went seperate ways.
My grandmother who lived with us died on my mothers birthday.
My other grandmother died on my birthday.
I had just got done touring being one of the youngest handbell players in America.
I lost all these things within the same year I was put into Straight on December 23. Straight took the rest of what I had away at the age of 13. I needed help, but not that kind. It took me 6 years after to relize why it was so easy for me to stay sober and then the only friends I had (recovering alcholics) kick me out cause I aint no alcoholic.
They shoulda had some sorta true honest psycological screening before the kids went in. It aint hard to do a few tests. That is why I know it was all about money, not about helping kids. The kids that became adicts, well at least they had all the steps and stuff memorized so I guess they got something out of it eh?
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The feeback that I have read say that the 30 day programs that are less intense don;t work -
NONE of the programs work, they exist only to bilk money out of parents like you that should know better than to fall for the scare stories that they sell. Shame on you for being a parent who would even consider sending your child to a treatment program (for an imaginary disease, no less), particularly after having been mindfucked by one yourself.
The people who "want to get off drugs" STOP DOING DRUGS, period. They don't need a "program" to "help them quit", they just quit, then and there. The lie that "drugs are soooooooo irresistable that anyone who is on them needs our help to get off them" is ludicrous, and another example of the jive that the Stepcult has succeeded in shoveling to an ignorant populace. If someone wants to quit doing drugs, they will stop--and they will be at least as, but probably more successful, in maintaining long-term abstinence by going it alone than they would be by joining some cult (like AA) or going to some kooked-out treatment center.
Really, if you're feeling so goddamned humanitarian and caring, you should be doing something to help the people who DON'T want to quit doing drugs. Help them obtain quality drugs at affordable prices by working to make all drug use and possession legal. Make honest, accurate, scientifically proven information about drugs and their effects available to them. Maybe you could do something to address the social, economic, or psychological reasons that cause them to want to do drugs in the first place. However, these things require rational thought, and hard work, as well as respect for other people's freedoms and rights, in addition to compassion , or at least sympathy for others. It's much easier and more quickly rewarding to get on a self-righteous power trip and declare all drug users to be suffering from insanity and in need of treatment, if not criminals hell bent on destroying civilization.
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you bring up some interesting points - ones that I never considered - ones that I would not accept for myself but am ok with you accepting them for yourself -to each his own
I find it ironic that I get confronted by you rtp --similar to the program- because I have a different opinion on a subject - you are doing what you proclaim to hate about one of the things that went on in the program - verbal abuse
Have I said that I liked the program - that how they went about things was right - no - i have denounced everything about the place- i went through it for 497 days and still am haunted by it
but i have to disagree with you that people who want to get off drugs just do- how many of us tried but did not- how many of us said we were going to stop- but didn't- that it was our last time- but did it again- sure there are exceptions but in general experiences this is not the norm
so for those who hold a value system that obssesive drug use or alcohol abuse can be destructive shouldn't there be a way to stop doing drugs where an occult like experience is not the only option
cause right now I don;t know of a rehabilitation center that does not employ some sort of behavior modification system
the majority of the posts here talk about what is wrong with the the way the treatment is employed - which I completely agree with - but i hear nothing about how it could be changed
if your an adult and you choose to use drugs routinely - no problem - that is your choice and should be left up to the individual if that is what he or she would like to do - i have no problem with that but your telling me that my best option for me if my 14 year old kid likes to smoke crack all day is to ensure he has the best purest crack available to him so he can express his rights/freedom to do as he wishes -
what is worse - letting him continue to smoke crack and hope he grows out of it before he kills himself or someone else or put him in a program and hope he gets back to normal - neither of these options are acceptable to me-
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Smoking is just as adictive if not more adictive drug than others. I quit smoking and really I was tempted to smoke again, I had cravings and such. I fasted for 10 days and I seriously have no more cravings at all. I know smoking isn't illegal but it calmed my nerves or it did while I was adicted. Anyways what I am getting at is, I too believe that alcoholism, drug adiction has to be an imaginary disease. I did not have to work a program to stay off nicotine. I do believe that very small portions of anything toxic stays stored in fatty tissues, fasting and such can clean the system. I also believe that we can have habits. We avoid problems so we eat, do drugs, drink, bite our nails. Anything can become a habit. What do we do to change our habits? I believe that self control has a lot to do with it. Are we as humans blaming a disease on lack of self discipline? Can we resist temptations or do we need to say oops I sliped cause I have a disease? How about oops I have a habit I need to break?
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You druggies never miss an opportunity to display your pathetic state of denial, do you? That's it; take another toke and keep pulling the wool over your own eyes! Keep talking about how GREAT drugs are while you become walking pincushions and SLAVES TO HEROIN!!! :flame: :flame: :flame:
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No one knows the answer. We are at the mercy of the elements. Often times the innocent are hurt and killed. There is no security. Nature takes it's course.
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I do not believe anyone can be an alcoholic before age 16. The personality is just finished being formed at 16.
You are retarded :rofl:
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i agree that you are retarded. so is this place. i wonder how many retardos will show up for the memorial????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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I think Ricky Retardo plans on being there...
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Why does it matter so much to you who goes and who doesn't? Miss us?
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Hey Grace. I'm sure RTP didn't mean to be mean. The topic just a sort of a source of irritation for some of us. Same shit comes up again and again, it's madening. I can understand someone who just doesn't know much about the whole sordid story, just going on what they've picked up by accident from tv and such. But I have to tell you it does scare the living shit out of me that there are people who were in Straight and who would consider anything like that for their own kid. It's not personal. Anyway....
so for those who hold a value system that obssesive drug use or alcohol abuse can be destructive shouldn't there be a way to stop doing drugs where an occult like experience is not the only option
cause right now I don;t know of a rehabilitation center that does not employ some sort of behavior modification system
Should there be? Well, maybe a whole lot of people want there to be such a thing. That doesn't mean it's possible. And the fact is that something well over 90% of rehabs in this country practice a particular kind of behavior modification made all too familiar by the step cult. There is absolutely no basis for the frequently repeated mantras about substance abuse being a disease or stepcraft being a cure. Check out The Orange Papers
the majority of the posts here talk about what is wrong with the the way the treatment is employed - which I completely agree with - but i hear nothing about how it could be changed
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but your telling me that my best option for me if my 14 year old kid likes to smoke crack all day is to ensure he has the best purest crack available to him so he can express his rights/freedom to do as he wishes -
what is worse - letting him continue to smoke crack and hope he grows out of it before he kills himself or someone else or put him in a program and hope he gets back to normal - neither of these options are acceptable to me-
Oh, come on! Enough w/ the simplification. You have infinitely more choices than that. To start with, you have to start well before the kid is 14 making sure they know the difference between drug war propaganda and the truth. You just have to be a parent to the kid and help them sort this out just like you'll be helping them with their first broken heart and many, many other difficult things. In fact a drug habit isn't anywhere near the most serious problem a kid will face going through life. The key to it, as with anything, is to not make things worse--first, do no harm.
But first you have to educate yourself. Props to ya for starting to think about the issue ahead of time. But, and please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems to me you haven't washed the brainwashing out of your head entirely yet. A lot of people wind up inflicting a lot of grief on their kids simply because they've never questioned the Program, really. You get away by whatever means, keep your head down, blend and pray nothing of it ever comes back on you. But when your own kid hits that age, what have you got to go on? The only teenagehood you know is the fucked up shit we all have in common around here. So you should go out of your way to re-examine how all that went down and how you can improve on your own parents' work.
There's probably no better source for insight on these questions than the people who often or occasionally hang around here. But I think it's safe to say we tend to be a bit... cranky? Yeah, cranky is a good word for it LOL. It's a sensitive topic for all of us. Don't get drawn into a lot of animosity needlessly.
Again, welcome, really!
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Don't make the mistake of paying heed to these depraved druggies. You'll regret it while you helplessly watch your kids travel down the sordid path to JAIL, INSANITY or DEATH.
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I find it ironic that I get confronted by you rtp --similar to the program- because I have a different opinion on a subject - you are doing what you proclaim to hate about one of the things that went on in the program - verbal abuse
I find it interesting that you feel I was abusive because I said "shame on you" and used the word "fuck" a few times, yet you disregarded the main points of my response to your post, which were:
1-Programs of the type to which you were subjected, and to which you are considering subjecting your child, are ineffective at best, harmful at worst. You should know this first hand, and again, you should be ashmed if you are considering sending your child to one, for whatever reason.
2- People have to want to quit doing drugs in order for them to stop doing them Enforced abstinence does not work. Those who want to quit doing drugs will quit doing them Disagree with me if you wish, but these are facts. You can believe that the world is flat if you are so inclined, but this does not make it so. AA's own stats show that quitting on your own is just as effective as they are, and you don't have to go to all those goddamn cult indoctrination sessions, or "meetings" as they are referred to.
3-People who use drugs to the point of their own detriment generally have underlying issues that they are dealing with through self-medication. Address those issues and they will not feel the need to get fucked up all the time.
I don't see where any of the things I said in my response to you could be considered "verbal abuse", and I think it is kind cheapens the word (abuse) when it gets thrown around casually, belittling real abuses that were suffered by you, me, and other kids at treatment centers just like the ones you are thinking about sending your child to.
I understand that you are scared, and granted, smoking crack isn't the most desirable recreational activity for a fourteen year-old kid to be engaging in, but sending them to a Straight spinoff is not the solution. It may sound like a quick , cheap fix, but that is the same delusion that our parents suffered from, and one that inevitably created far many more problems than it solved.
I think the underlying reasons for your child's drug use need to be addressed, and the drug issue will resolve itself. I also bet you thinkikyour child is using drugs to a far greater extent than they actually are, not to say that any amount of crack smoking is appropriate behavior.
Whatever you do, I hope you do not send your child to one of the programs you have been considering.
rtp
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Let me clarify something cause I believe rtp you misinterpreted what I said - I do not have a 14yrold who is on crack - I was using that as an example
The discussion with you guys has been interesting - I wish everyone the best I think I need to take a step back and let all this sink in for awhile-
The fact that I am so conflicted and confused is a testament to how good they brainwash us I hadn;t thought about my experience for a long time I think I will be happier suppressing it all again
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That's a relief, knowing that you aren't actually considering sending your kid to Straight-spinoff. I was really kind of freaked out by that.
I really don't see where I was "abusive" in any of the statements I made, if you could point out anything specific, I'd be interested in seeing what you considered abusive in my statements.
The brainwashing runs deep---I was there for about 13 months, and for a month of that I was gone, hiding out at a "druggie friend"'s house, and for a very long time I was convinced--even though I had resisted the indoctrination as best I could--that the stepcult was effective and worked, that it was actually the best way to recovery from addiction. I believed that I was doomed to be an addict because I would not work the program. It amazes me now how I bought into that particualr aspect of the program when I resisted so much of it. I knew it was a fucked up program, while I was there, and after getting out, but I thought they were somehow right about their beliefs about addiction and how to deal with it. I wasted a lot of time and energy believing that crap. I blame my own laziness for not being more thorough in researching other techniques for dealing with drug abuse, but I believe that Straight's indoctrination and the Stepcult's infestation of our culture and it's purposeful obscuration and attempt to conceal not only it's own flaws, but the effectiveness of (and even existence of) other methods and techniques for dealing with problem drug use. That, to me, is the real crime of AA/NA/other forms of Stepcultism---intentionally or not, they have overshadowed other, more effective forms of treatment. AA is not very good at helping people deal with problem drinking. AA is extremely good at promoting AA.
The mindfuck they worked on us at Straight was first-rate, no doubt, but I believe it can be overcome. You'rre right, the whole "loss of innocence" can be a real bitch, I've definitely had the same notion run through my mind after discovering these sites, wishing I could "re-repress" some of the memories. That's not really an option, and ultimately, is just sweeping the shit under the rug. You might not see any shit, but you can damn sure smell it. I think the ordeal can be coped with, though, and although it ain't easy, I'm confident that it is possible to recover from our enforced teenaged "recovery".
Take care, grace, see you around.
rtp2k3