Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: marika708 on February 19, 2003, 04:00:00 PM
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I want to know about the kind of responses survivors are getting from
their spouses and loved ones. Are you getting, ooh that's
terrible...or is it more like, that was a long time ago, what are you
talking about? Is it hard for people who see survivors
as "functioning" to perceive the underlying problems? Is it
difficult to understand that we still have nightmares about the place
that we were imprisoned? Or are we oversensitive and need to not
dwell on unpleasant memories if we don't like the way they make us
feel or what they make us remember? I have seen an across the board
response from my family, I'd like to know what you guys got...
Thanks
Marika
Since you [US "drug tsar" McCaffrey] control a federal budget that has just been increased from $17.8 billion last year to $19.2 billion this year, is asking people like you if we should continue with our nation's current drug policy like a person asking a barber if one needs a haircut? --
Orange Country, California
Los Angeles Times
29 March 2000
--Judge James P. Gray
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I don't talk about this with my parents so I don't know the response that I'd get from them. This is not something I want to discuss with my dad in a room full of people. I'm sure y'all can figure the reason why. I showed my wife Wes' site and the response was more like, "There is no fucking way....?" Then on to how did you live through that. Followed by, "Well, that explains a lot. Perhaps, you should bring this up to Joby (our Therapist)." When I told her Joby seemed to pass the whole thing off she was like we need to find a different therapist.
Sally is saddened by the whole thing and is floored by the fact that my parents never REALLY knew what was happeneing in there. They were out-of-town parents and I'll cut them some slack on that. At least she understands better when I say, "I'm not yelling, damn it." After all, ALL straightlings (yuk!) know it is only tough love.
CL
PS Good Question!
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Spookey how familiar the "I'm not yelling" line is as a spouse of a survivor. I've heard that before.
I experienced the nightmares with my husband vicariously when he would awake trembling and sweating. He'd just say, "I had another Straight dream". I got a little at a time about what he experienced. And his wasn't by any means a worst case scenario, just a typical case. I dealt with the low self-esteem thing. I'd never seen anyone that down on himself. I had to figure out what would make someone stress over such small things. Now I know.
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ISAC has a national spouse support group and support line for spouses
For spouse support call ISACS main number
to email the ISAC National Director of Spouses
email
spouses@straightincorporated.com
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My gf is sympathetic but really doesn't seem to understand what it was like. Whenever I bring the subject up I can see that look in her eyes... "oh no he's talking about it again" so I rarely discuss it. I find most people have that reaction. I'm not close with my family, although we keep in touch, and haven't talked about Straight with them in probably 18 years.
Thank god for these forums and the other sites!
:smokin:
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Wow really good question. My parents jump down my throat with such blind defense of themselves their choices how they "did't know", made the best choice they could at the time blah blah blah. I will never forgive them, they will never admit wrongdoing. I could maybe see an oops you were in there for 3months or oops 6months but a 13month mistake um NO. We don't even talk about it that much anymore. It basically comes up when my anti-social, trustless cyncial personality irritates them and the ask why or how I could be that way and not trust anyone. Then if I am in a fighting mood I let them know how truely grateful I am that they stopped every illusion of safety and the police are your friend out of my 14 year old brain in 1989.
Relationships and even friendships are difficult too. I guess I have a fighting style that is militant, relentless, and cruel. This was recently told to me by my live in boyfriend. I guess when I am in a disagreement I go for the throat and keep verbally attacking and shredding all attempts that he makes to explain anything. I really did not see any Straight connection to this behavior until reading this thread. Is that not what we learned in Straight. The confrontational style of agressively wearing someone down??? Not even letting them think with a relentless assualt on them. 14years later and I still cannot cope in any other way?
14 years later and I still dig my fingernails into my palms when I am pissed off and don't know what to do. All these things are Staight behaviors. I can think of not one positive thing I got from that place not one. Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
- Patrick Henry
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Your response to this question is so similar to what mine would have been. I?m not used to any of this yet, this being my second posting, and about 94 hours into learning of how many comrades I have out there or that any one else had the same experience as me. My post is the ?help me someone.?
For years I have been broken hearted to hear the words, ?I can?t handle you?, or ?you are to intense for me.? Just in the past four days it has been so important and amazing to learn these horrible traits I literally possessed, were not me. It will take years to forgive or correct this ?destruction skill? thanks to straight, I too am jaded, and engulfed with guilt and shame. I?m so sorry, that is not me. At least I know this now, finally.
As far as my family, my abusive Father died when I was 13. six months later, I was sent away, not to straight but another boot camp style child prison. I was there two years. Six months later is when I was thrown in straight. Between that small period of time, I was a run away. I knew my Mother was doing everything in her power to find me, so she could send me away again. The day she had two large men, whom I did know, pick me up, dragged me kicking, screaming, biting, scratching spitting, to a van and drove (a short drive, I lived in Richardson where the facility was) to straight Dallas. I would have jumped out if ever there was an opportunity, I was small though, they were big. That moment, the one right before you don?t see your parents for a long time, I told her, ?I swear to God, if you do this to me again, I will NEVER forgive you.? 17 years later, I not only can?t, but won?t. At least not until she could ever admit to anything, but I have been trying to tell her for 17 fucking years, ?don?t you realize, because you stole it from me my youth, did not exist.? My mom refused to open a host home, yet we lived in Richardson(Dallas). Since 13 I was not welcome in my own home. My fiancé has been on a personal campaign ever since we stumbled into this info. He could be nothing less of a true saint, daily I?m thankful. My mom, I can?t touch on the subject . My feelings of any thing that resembles love for my Mom are frozen. For years I could and still do feel nothing but REPULSION.
Thank you for simply being alive,
Morli a.k.a. Lesli
[ This Message was edited by: Morli on 2003-04-04 23:47 ]
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"My parents jump down my throat with such blind defense of themselves their choices how they "did't know", made the best choice they could at the time blah blah blah." -Kaydeejaded
That is precisely how my mom always responds, plus "oh, get over it" and "you're still carrying that around?" One time I got really specific and I told her about being forced to motivate and then restrained on the floor when I tried to fight them off. That really upset her. She said why didn't I tell her before and that I had to let it out.
Well, (prepare for sarcasm) excusez moi, what did you think was going on in a place that controlled every single thing a person did? Do you think teenagers just showed up there, saw the light, and decided to cooperate?
In my mind, there is no excuse whatsoever for a parent's ignorance. They signed me over, for God's sake.
My mother uses that argumentative tactic -- ripping a person up -- and she was never in Straight. It is probably just a human thing, certainly taught and encouraged by Straight but not necessarily unique to that place. I think it might come from fear. I am an extremely amgry person when I become afraid, so I have to watch the whole paranoia thing. I have been homeless rather than live somewhere that was too public, where people could see me come and go.
These days what makes me the saddest is that I can't seem to get my life together and I have not had an intimate relationship in over a decade. I would love to be in love. Maybe people can't get to know me because there are too many defenses. Also I don't give people a chance, and I am very critical.
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Our stories all sound so similar. I am awaiting a response from my mother as I sit. After finding all this myself, especially Wes Fager?s, I sent her that reading material to ?breeze over.? I?m not expecting any revelation from her though. I?m convinced my mother is empty. After all, I?ve been trying to tell her anything my whole life and she?s not heard any of it. People from my psychiatrist, to my sister agree, but I still wait, because I need a Mommy. My sister was not in straight (thank goodness) but almost feels the exact same way I do. This is not at all to ever imply that we should all, hate our parents, But if a parent can?t ever hear our pain without reacting with defensiveness, sadly those are their issues, they may carry with them always. As far as what you said about intimate relationships, I hear you. Never give up. Straight may have put trillions of mental obstacles in our way, along with any one else who abused us, but what does not kill us... It?s so hard being patient, especially when you are starved for love, yet trust NO ONE. It ?s taken me 17 years to find one healthy relationship. It takes so much time. That?s the only thing that?s reliable though, time.
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I still feel my parents owe me, or at the least, that I don't owe them (for the times they have helped me out).
Does anyone else have thoughts on this? When one's life has been difficult because of the fallout from time in Straight, even if one is never going to get any justice, what IS justice? Are we not owed? Or is justice not about paying someone back?
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I sent her Wes Fager's introduction to straight inc. I got from her what I've always gotten...
DENIAL!!!!!
It was horrible, my heart broke all over again. She even called me a liar and defended herself over and over. I kept screaming,"I WAS A CHILD." She did not hear me. I'm so sad. She asked me things like why I didn't tell her, I told her,"I've been telling you for 17 years." This Jan. she called me to deny knowledge of my father abusing me for the first 13 years of my life,AGAIN!! She can't keep enough track of the things she says, let alone acknowledge anything I have EVER told her even MY FAVORITE COLOR. I know my mom doesn't know me, how could she? I was not there, I was where she put me 13-17. And before that , I guess the reason she didn't notice I was getting abused by my prick father is because she was SHOPPING!!!!! I need help dealing with all this rage, please help me again...
:???: I don't want to hate my mom anymore, but what do I do? M
[ This Message was edited by: Morli on 2003-02-25 12:53 ]
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Hey Morli, I know how it feels even though my situation is a little different. The whole time I was in Straight my stepmother was using drugs. My dad had quit several years before, but she was still using in our home. When I say drugs I specifically mean methamphetamine. I found out about this years later. The denial and hypocrisy in our family runs deep to this day. I've given up on trying to be a part of it, otherwise I would have a breakdown just getting involved in anything more than a casual long-distance relationship.
My suggestion is that you try and let it go, just let her go... walk away from it. At her age she isn't going to admit her wrongdoing. And she obviously isn't concerned with how you should be dealing with all of this.
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You sound just like me except for the details. Why are our mothers like that I do not know I think we will never understand. Unless we become mothers ourselves and see ourselves becoming insane. It seems that to ask why is to scream without making a sound. Better to walk away like the other poster said, and know that you are not alone in your experience.
Why do they have to call us liars, or say "get over it" or "you're having a pity-party"?
It is as though when I bring up Straight she herself is transported back to that time and those bizarre phrases come out of her mouth like an incomplete exorcism.
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Hi Kosmonaut,(love the name)
Thank you. The funny thing about it is that,I KNOW, I KNOW... But there's this need inside to have even ONE parent's love. Cutting the cord is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
very hard. But that's the only way for me to survive!! My mom is an alcoholic, and the first time I ever tried cocaine, or saw it for that matter, was from her.To this day it's hard to realize ,people lie and you can't trust everyone.
Thank you for the good advice,I need to hear it, all of this is so unreal still...Ahhhhhhhh- TIME.
Thank you.
Morli ::alieneyesa::
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Oops! Sorry everyone. Will the moderator delete that last post? I'm really sorry.I guess that was a few to many os, also doesn't help that I forgot to log in. Morli
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I have been a mother for 12 years. My daughter Loves me. I know I'm doing this Mommy thing right, she's a pre-teen and trusts me enough to tell me everything without me ever having to "extract" anything. That trust, I earned, with good dececions, paticence, and love. Why are so many people of this world not capable of figuring this out? Sad, but true. I am proud of the wonderous gift of a child I am raising.
Love you children
Morli ::kiss:
[ This Message was edited by: Morli on 2003-04-05 00:02 ]
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::jawdrop:: Hi Morli, I have 6 kids and they all seem to love me too. I aint the best parent in the world, can't give them everything they need all the time, but at least I do what I can. My wife, another survivor, and I got married going on 18 years ago. We keep doing the best we can, lord knows it is hard, and lately getting harder with the economy the way it is. Hang on to what you have, and don't worry too much about your mom, you will be OK. Did you check out the yahoo site? There's lots of people on that one that would love to see you there. Good luck,
MG8 :smokin:
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I completely agree
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could you provide a link to the yahoo site?
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Please read as much as you can about this straight, inc. program. you will be in for a helluva suprise
MG
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I rarely post on this forum, but I do keep a close eye on it. But, I've been reading this thread, and need to say that my father has his head so far up his ass on Straight that I don't think he'll ever see the light of day.
I actually searched out this and Wes Fager's site after my father talked about how great he thought Straight was for me. That was last July 4th. On the drive home after a long silence, I said to my wife, "Dad's full of shit." And the weirdest sensation went over me. "Full of shit." A wave of memories from Straight. I had always retained some limited memory, but over the passing of 15 years I had put some things away, so to speak. They were all coming back. My wife drove, and I told her stories, intermitently crying and yelling. She just drove with tears streaming down her face.
July 5th rolled around, and she asked what I was going to do about all this. I did a Google search and found websites. My wife and I read through them, and she observed that they explained much, my insomnia, nightmares, temper, insecurity, paranoia, and (that totally fucked-up straightling word) "awfulizing." (My step-mother constantly uses that word. After I pointed out to my wife that it was straight-speak, we agreed to strike it from our collective vocabulary.)
My wife comes and hugs me now, when she notices that it's 3:00am and I'm not sleeping. She never had given it any thought before. If she notices that I'm having a nightmare, she wakes me, takes me to look at our kids sleeping, and whispers "they're what's real to you now." When I am assuming that things are going to turn out shitty, she reminds me to have faith saying, "they can't hurt you anymore." She lets me sleep with a light on. I couldn't be more blessed than to have her be understanding the way she has been.
My dad. I love him, but we're not close. My kids love him, but they sense my tension when we are around him. But fuck him. We have a surface relationship - my wife and I do the obligatory crap. He doesn't really know who I am anymore and hasn't for some time. I don't rely on him for identity or esteem anymore. That makes me sad - that I could really give less than a shit that we aren't close. I wish it were another way, but it's not and probably won't be. That reality predates my entering Straight, but the fact of the matter is, my being in Straight was one of his deepest abandonments of me, his son. Sadly, I doubt that I will ever reconcile that feeling. I was pissed off righteously for what seemed like an eternity, and now I just feel sad. Sad that I would just say "fuck him," but hey, "FUCK HIM."
I recently have really hurt his feelings. I'm about to graduate from seminary and be ordained as a minister in the Episcopal Church. Neither he nor his wife are getting one of the limited tickets to my graduation, nor am I asking him to present me for ordination. He told me that he felt "disappointed." Guess what I thought? That's right let's say it all together now - "FUCK HIM." I told him that the people who helped to put my life right were the ones I asked to participate in these huge events in my life. I guess I am still pissed-off, but mostly I am sad that my first response to my dad is ... well you know what it is.
Anyway. Thanks for being so patient with my rant.
I pray we all find peace somehow, someway.
your brother,
Michael Cadaret