Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on September 16, 2006, 02:06:55 AM
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Does anyone have any knowlege of Discovery Ranch? I only recently heard of this place and discovered lots of interesting WWASPS connections: the owners include Dane Kay, relative of Ken Kay, and Jim Salisbury -- both co-owners of Redcliff Ascent -- and Steve Nadauld, a co-owner of Discovery Academy. The ranch's website even advertises the connection to Discovery Academy & Redcliff.
This place calls itself a residential treatment center, but it sounds like it might be just a close cousin of Discovery Academy, except with horses and calves and ropes courses. They carefully avoid the BM words.
I didn't see this place on any watchlists.
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Does anyone have any knowlege of Discovery Ranch? I only recently heard of this place and discovered lots of interesting WWASPS connections: the owners include Dane Kay, relative of Ken Kay, and Jim Salisbury -- both co-owners of Redcliff Ascent -- and Steve Nadauld, a co-owner of Discovery Academy. The ranch's website even advertises the connection to Discovery Academy & Redcliff.
This place calls itself a residential treatment center, but it sounds like it might be just a close cousin of Discovery Academy, except with horses and calves and ropes courses. They carefully avoid the BM words.
I didn't see this place on any watchlists.
If its connected to WWASPS, why the hell would you want to risk placing anyone there?
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If this is JulieE from ST, who posted in the ST Program Questions Forum, I am glad that you have decided to post this question on Fornits as well.
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Again...
would someone please explain how a grown adult, not under duress, could get twisted into trusting in and believing in these places?
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:D
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I found their website...
http://www.discoveryranch.net (http://www.discoveryranch.net)
Discovery Ranch is right for your teen if:
* Male or Female 13-17 years old
* He/she would benefit from experiential therapy versus traditional youth residential treatment.
* Has been resistive to self-improvement or oppositional in other therapeutic settings.
* Suffers from emotional issues such as:
o Depression, bipolar disorder
o Non-compliant behaviors
o Adoption or abandonment issues.
o ADD or ADHD
o Anxiety Issues
o Family Relationship Issues
o Social Problems
o Drug and Alcohol
o Low-self esteem
o Trauma
o Low frustration tolerance
We do not treat:
* Psychotic/schizophrenic behaviors
* Serious medical issues
* Serious assaultive behaviors
* Conduct Disorder
* Serious gang involvement
* Serious mental impairment (IQ lower than 85)
* Sexual perpetration
so like any good program they will admit any normal teenager. low frustration tolerance? low self esteem? are these now conditions that i am unaware of, because i have yet to meet this theoretical teen who does not suffer from these things.
adoption and abandomnet isuess... best dealt with, sending the kid away! how perfectly ironic. family issues.. being dealt with by, removing child from family... great solution. :roll:
if you haven't read the site yet, check out the philosophy page and read about 'experiential therapy' and have a good laugh. :P
i couldnt find any direct link to wwasp as far as marketing or anything, but if the owner is related to jay kay, it definitely smells fishy! they know wwasps is becoming a liability brand name so they are probably going to start to ditch it soon, or by changing structure and names and expand that way. thats what i would do if i were them.
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Again...
would someone please explain how a grown adult, not under duress, could get twisted into trusting in and believing in these places?
Actually, I think it's a simple question, and I think the answer is simple -- abuse by proxy. They can't get away with locking the kid in the basement and forcing him into submission, so they pay someone else to do it. All the other bullshit is just conscience-soothing self-justification. How many times have you heard about an abusive spouse or parent saying something like "I only hit you because I care about you.", or "This is for your own good."?
"He's out of control." Yeah, it's all about control. As far as good intentions... well, you know where those get you.
And to all the parents that have come to their senses, and are now outspokenly opposed to these places: I have forgiven my mother, because she knows she was wrong. She's even admitted that her conscience was eating away at her the whole time, even though she says she wasn't aware of what was going on in those places, and that she was conned.
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If this is JulieE from ST, who posted in the ST Program Questions Forum, I am glad that you have decided to post this question on Fornits as well.
No, it wasn't Julie who posted this. I am another parent who frequents this forum, ST and other forums related to this hideous industry. I only did a little digging on DR because it sounded like it might be related to DA, and I wanted to warn Julie to stay away from any place that has any sort of affiliation with WWASPS or any of it's known personnel. In fact, there a lots of non-WWASPS programs I would like her and other parents to avoid too.
Having said that, I am not against parents finding help for kids who really need help. I hold on to the optimistic belief that there are some mental health care professionals in this country that actually care about children, that are qualified and licensed and want to help kids improve their lives and resolve their issues in a loving, caring and therapeutically accepted manner. That certainly rules out all the unlicensed programs, and probably most of the licensed ones too.
The reason for posting the question about DR here was that I thought there might be some alumni (although it's only been open a year) or some other info that could expose this place. Like I said, I couldn't find it on any watchlists -- and that's scary.
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Good to hear that you are looking out for julie and her child. Caring medical profesionalS? ABSOLUTELY THERE ARE! The kind who oppose these types of programs. The type who do everything in their power and then some to keep the child at home. Not the type who refer to programs and/or throw meds at every single problem. Upset that your uncle threw your mother down a flight of stairs and are acting out because of frustration? Here is some Haldol. Depressed because of disfunctional family? Here is some Zoloft.Having arguements with your mom and having school problems?Well, We will send you to some program instead of dealing with it. Much easier that way.
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I'm just laughing at how threy don't treat "serious gang involvement".
Wanna know why they don't?
Because any kid who's been through gang initiations and the like is gonna think "Hey... I've BEEN HERE before!"
He will then proceed through the program at a rapid pace, further perfecting the arts of bullying and threatening, before he returns home a true expert.
Seriously, if your kid isn't doing well in his gang, not participating in illegal activities, not being hateful or brutal enough, etc, a Program will surely help him out.
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Sounds like some lame ass make the kid work at shoveling cow shit till they behave concept. Not that is all together a bad idea, but one must be very directed in the cow shit shoveling. Shoveling cow shit with out goals or purpose is pointless cow shit shoveling.
Yeah, if a kid has lost so many points that he's below level one, I could see them sending him outside with a shovel for like 12 hours a day shoveling cow shit. If the kid believed it was like getting rid of the shit in his head, hey, it might even be therapeutic to shovel cow shit all day.
Of course I'm not serious. I may be a sick bastard, but I'm not that sick.
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Again...
would someone please explain how a grown adult, not under duress, could get twisted into trusting in and believing in these places?
Normally it's a divorced parent, one with a strained relationship(or none at all) with a child, who gains custody by blaming the other parent when the teen behaves like a teen. They have to put the child somewhere, can't live with them..."Say, this place looks like a Summer camp, look at the rustic terrain on the website...says it teaches accountability...makes them clean horse shit and deal with disease laden cattle...why, I bet if I send the kid there, this qualified team of pros will force him(her)to love and respect me, despite years of abuse and neglect..."
That's one idea of how a sucker is born...
What the hell is "Sexual perpetration"?
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What the hell is "Sexual perpetration"?
Anything the program wants it to be. Basically anything sexual.
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What the hell is "Sexual perpetration"?
Sorry folks, there are quite a few typos on our web site. We've been trying to get the developers to fix them, but they're asking for a lot of money, and we just don't have it.
That one is suppose to be "Sexual Penetration", and it's on the wrong page. It's one of the many styles of individual therapy we offer here.
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Sam Gerhardt used to teach the same course at Mountain Park.
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I have a question.Lets say a family is having genuine issues getting along & a kid is acting out, or not coping with a blended family, divorce etc. How is a parent able to decifer a genuinely helpful & caring family therapist from one that is getting kickbacks from an ed con or who also doubles as an ed con? How can the credentials and professionalism of a therapist be guaranteed?
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It isn't as simple as the qualifications of the therapist, it's also the environment in which they work -- the program and the employer. Good therapists may sometimes be duped into taking a job that turns out to not be what they thought it would be, just as caring parents are duped into sending their kids to abusive programs. That might be one reason why staff turnover is so high in some programs -- the good staff, the therapists who care and want to help patients, realize they made a mistake in taking the job and they find themselves a different job.
A simple rule of thumb for parents is to read the warning signs on the ISAC web site: http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.asp (http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.asp)
If a program being considered by a parent violates one or more of these warning signs, red flags should go up. The more warning signs violated, the more likely it is that the program is an abusive 'tough love' facility or a cult that may harm rather than help a child.
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I have a question.Lets say a family is having genuine issues getting along & a kid is acting out, or not coping with a blended family, divorce etc. How is a parent able to decifer a genuinely helpful & caring family therapist from one that is getting kickbacks from an ed con or who also doubles as an ed con? How can the credentials and professionalism of a therapist be guaranteed?
Its as simple as if the therapist wants to throw the child away in a brainwashing program, or actually provide therapy without forcing anything or blaming it all on anyone or convincing anyone its 'all about them'?
COMMON SENSE?
Jeeze. Are we THAT DUMB? ^^^^ The "dumbing us down" book above is realy yelling at me atm.
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A good therapist treats the patient like a person, with dignity and respect.
A good therapist will ask the patient what the patient's goals are--what the patient wants to gain from therapy. A good therapist will respect the patient's goals and genuinely listen to the patient, not view the patient as clay to be molded to the parent's specifications.
A good therapist will provide a patient's "bill of rights," either spontaneously or if asked, and will explain clearly to a minor what his or her rights will be in the therapeutic relationship, and what rights the parent will have in the therapeutic relationship. A good therapist will also explain where, in the therapeutic relationship, the parents' rights end.
A good therapist should be able to tell you, if asked, what kinds of things they would not do, for ethical reasons, even if the parents requested it. One of these things should include that the therapist will report, and will not cover up, if something should come up that gives the therapist reason to suspect that child abuse is occurring.
If a therapist doesn't tell you they are obliged to report suspicions of child abuse, when you ask them to describe the line between what some parents might want them to do and their responsibilities to a minor patient, that is a huge red flag.
A therapist cannot treat your child like a person and, at the same time, treat your child like the absolute property of the parent to be done with as the parent wishes no matter what.
A sense of ethics requires forethought. Without having gone through training about where the ethical lines are, without having thought ahead, any professional will find it all too easy to cross the line into unethical behavior when faced with serious temptation. Over time, that professional will lose all sense of proportion about what's ethical and what's not. Nobody can stay ethical by just doing what feels right at the time without ever thinking ahead about precisely where that line is in a wide variety of situations.
If a therapist can't tell you, the parent, a number of things they won't do at the behest of the parent, then that therapist doesn't have the ethics to help your child.
Julie
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A sense of ethics requires forethought. Without having gone through training about where the ethical lines are, without having thought ahead, any professional will find it all too easy to cross the line into unethical behavior when faced with serious temptation. Over time, that professional will lose all sense of proportion about what's ethical and what's not. Nobody can stay ethical by just doing what feels right at the time without ever thinking ahead about precisely where that line is in a wide variety of situations.
So in order to call yourself a therapist in the US is some kind of ethics course required the way it is for doctors? Is a therapist allowed to also practice as an Ed Con or does it vary from state to state?
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I have a question.Lets say a family is having genuine issues getting along & a kid is acting out, or not coping with a blended family, divorce etc. How is a parent able to decifer a genuinely helpful & caring family therapist from one that is getting kickbacks from an ed con or who also doubles as an ed con? How can the credentials and professionalism of a therapist be guaranteed?
I have a question. Lets say you have a serious disease/infection. How are you able to "decifer" a genuinely caring & qualified physician from one that is getting kickbacks from a pharmaceutical manufacturer or hospital admissions office?
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I attended discovery ranch 5 years ago when I was 15 years old. My parents sent me there because I was depressed, doing poorly in school instead of getting straight A's, got caught shoplifting a pack of gum from 7-11, spent too much time on the computer, and was "too angry and defiant". I had never done drugs, drank, or even smoked a cigarette at this point in my life. I had been raped when i was 12 and was unable to tell my male therapist or parents about this happening because my family is very Catholic. in comparison, most of the other residents had serious drug problems, were in gangs, were extremely violent, etc. Regardless of what they were there for, NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE TREATED AS INHUMANELY AS CHILDREN SUCH AS MYSELF WERE. I had repressed memories of the physical, sexual, and psychological torture i endured for five years until I watched a documentary on the stanford prison experiment in my psychology class. It brought everything back because I lived that experience, except for ten months and it was real. I don't believe that the people who tortured me were innately evil; i think it was a situation similar to Abu Ghraib. I was forced to do the most humiliating and degrading things possibly conceivable; I was forced to eat a girls used tampon, lick cow shit off a girls boots, unclog a toilet with my bare hands... adult male staff would masturbate to me showering, changing, and using the toilet while masturbating (keep in mind I was 15.), I witnessed a 15 year old boy be sodomized by a broom handle and have the living shit beat out of him because he tried to run away and watched a girl punch a window and slit her wrists in front of me because she couldn't take it anymore. They would arbitrarily lock me in a tiny pitch black closet devoid of food, water, a bathroom, or human contact for days, usually because I made an "inappropriate facial expression" like crying or raising my eyebrows when they screamed at me that I was worthless and no one could ever love me. The night staff was apparently fucked up on heroin, meth, pcp, etc the whole time and had virtually no training or qualifications, which I learned when a male staff member sexually propositioned me over Facebook when I was 18, so three years later, and told me what happened behind closed doors. I had no contact with the outside world except letters to my parents which were censored, and observed phone calls once a month. I had to raise a baby cow for the slaughter to "learn to deal with loss", exercise until I threw up blood, pick up cow shit every day, I could go on and on. And the scariest part was that it was fantastic during the day; we would do ropes courses and go skiing and horseback riding and talk to a truly kind therapist every day who genuinely though I was insane or a pathological liar and convinced me I was hallucinating or having nightmares.... But I fucking wasn't. I literally couldn't make this shit up. I thought I was actually crazy, but it was all real. I don't know why but when i was there I never wanted to leave. I felt like i somehow deserved to be treated like this and I think a part of me knew I could never stand living in the real world after all this happened. I stopped feeling emotions and didn't for two years. When I came back to real life I had forgotten how to smile and had to train myself to make facial expressions that corresponded to the emotions I should have felt in various circumstances. Even when I started feeling feelings again I realized on Wednesday that I had been experiencing emotions with maybe 50-75% of the intensity that I normally should, which was put into perspective when I finally accepted that these things truly happened to me and felt for the first time in my life the appropriate pain and humiliation that corresponds to being treated in such a way for such an extended period of time. Until now I had remembered my experience there as a happy one- I literally only remembered what went on during the day. The reason I am writing this now is because I ended up becoming an alcoholic and drug addict once I went to college and had finally had complete freedom. With the help of a REAL rehab and AA, I had achieved 14 months sober. After essentially being re-traumatized after remembering all this, I recently went on a five day bender started Wednesday where I got high and or drunk every waking moment, which culminated with me waking up on my bathroom floor on Monday morning covered in blood and vomit next to two empty bottles of wine and Xanax spilled across the floor with a five page suicide note on my computer that I'd written in a blackout. I am at a loss for what to do at this point. I'm in therapy, on medication, have been to three AA meetings in the past three days, and just feel like I am out of options and suicide or getting constantly fucked up is my only option at this point. I literally can't live with these memories. It makes me fucking sick that this place, along with HUNDREDS of others, still exists, quietly protected under the umbrella of the state government of Utah, and that parents are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for their children to be tortured and driven insane or into obedient, soulless sociopaths.