Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Hyde Schools => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 30, 2006, 11:16:11 PM
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i went to hyde after my first try at sophmore year in public school. i faied out of public school not because i didn't go but just because i didn't care about life anymore.
so i went to hyde. i entered teh school and repeated my sophmore year and thought the school was ok. i thought that i would stick it out till i graduated because my mother told me before i even went there that i would have to graduate from there. so i stuck it out. i kept my nose clean(easy if you can avoid other kids trying to influence you) and entered my junior year. I had challenging classes(Mr. Rigney) and i had easy classes (spanish) but i went through junior year. i was never an athletic person but i have always been wierdly skinny. so i took up sports and loved them. again because i was able to avoid other kids trying to pressure my i was able to not get any 530s or 2-4.
it really was simple.
so near the end of my junior year i was trying to apply to become a junior steward and i was told that i didn't lead enough. so i said to myself, "shit, i have got to put myself out there" so i led a school meeting and i lead the library. i learned if you could just say fuck it and not listen to the kids bitching about work(which i hear a lot of kids say that the work load is easy but while at school i heard kids always bitching about how hard it was and tehy had no time) then it is easy.
so i entered my senior year and helped out in many ways in the school. becoming a mentor to people and helping those who struggled. by the end of my senior year i just wanted to leave and go on to college. but now looking back i miss hyde. i know i spent a lot of time hating it but hyde helped me out so much because i wanted to change, if you want to change then hyde can help, but don't bitch if you don't want to change.
so i made it through hyde without getting dirty and was able to staay of 2-4
don't think i didn't have temptations though, i love cigars and an alum was up hanging out with me and i was talking about my love of a good smoke. he then procedes to pull out 4 very nice cigars and asks if i would like to go smoke one with him cause that is where he is headed. i declined.
so in the end you have a choice, if you realy hate it so much run away
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i went to hyde after my first try at sophmore year in public school. i faied out of public school not because i didn't go but just because i didn't care about life anymore.
so i went to hyde. i entered teh school and repeated my sophmore year and thought the school was ok. i thought that i would stick it out till i graduated because my mother told me before i even went there that i would have to graduate from there. so i stuck it out. i kept my nose clean(easy if you can avoid other kids trying to influence you) and entered my junior year. I had challenging classes(Mr. Rigney) and i had easy classes (spanish) but i went through junior year. i was never an athletic person but i have always been wierdly skinny. so i took up sports and loved them. again because i was able to avoid other kids trying to pressure my i was able to not get any 530s or 2-4.
it really was simple.
so near the end of my junior year i was trying to apply to become a junior steward and i was told that i didn't lead enough. so i said to myself, "shit, i have got to put myself out there" so i led a school meeting and i lead the library. i learned if you could just say fuck it and not listen to the kids bitching about work(which i hear a lot of kids say that the work load is easy but while at school i heard kids always bitching about how hard it was and tehy had no time) then it is easy.
so i entered my senior year and helped out in many ways in the school. becoming a mentor to people and helping those who struggled. by the end of my senior year i just wanted to leave and go on to college. but now looking back i miss hyde. i know i spent a lot of time hating it but hyde helped me out so much because i wanted to change, if you want to change then hyde can help, but don't bitch if you don't want to change.
so i made it through hyde without getting dirty and was able to staay of 2-4
don't think i didn't have temptations though, i love cigars and an alum was up hanging out with me and i was talking about my love of a good smoke. he then procedes to pull out 4 very nice cigars and asks if i would like to go smoke one with him cause that is where he is headed. i declined.
so in the end you have a choice, if you realy hate it so much run away
Thanks for sharing that.
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i went to hyde after my first try at sophmore year in public school. i faied out of public school not because i didn't go but just because i didn't care about life anymore.
so i went to hyde. i entered teh school and repeated my sophmore year and thought the school was ok. i thought that i would stick it out till i graduated because my mother told me before i even went there that i would have to graduate from there. so i stuck it out. i kept my nose clean(easy if you can avoid other kids trying to influence you) and entered my junior year. I had challenging classes(Mr. Rigney) and i had easy classes (spanish) but i went through junior year. i was never an athletic person but i have always been wierdly skinny. so i took up sports and loved them. again because i was able to avoid other kids trying to pressure my i was able to not get any 530s or 2-4.
it really was simple.
so near the end of my junior year i was trying to apply to become a junior steward and i was told that i didn't lead enough. so i said to myself, "shit, i have got to put myself out there" so i led a school meeting and i lead the library. i learned if you could just say fuck it and not listen to the kids bitching about work(which i hear a lot of kids say that the work load is easy but while at school i heard kids always bitching about how hard it was and tehy had no time) then it is easy.
so i entered my senior year and helped out in many ways in the school. becoming a mentor to people and helping those who struggled. by the end of my senior year i just wanted to leave and go on to college. but now looking back i miss hyde. i know i spent a lot of time hating it but hyde helped me out so much because i wanted to change, if you want to change then hyde can help, but don't bitch if you don't want to change.
so i made it through hyde without getting dirty and was able to staay of 2-4
don't think i didn't have temptations though, i love cigars and an alum was up hanging out with me and i was talking about my love of a good smoke. he then procedes to pull out 4 very nice cigars and asks if i would like to go smoke one with him cause that is where he is headed. i declined.
so in the end you have a choice, if you realy hate it so much run away
Sounds like your experience wasn't to terribly bad overall. Did you witness or hear of any of the horrible emotional cruelty, pedophilia, abuse or incompetence that is regularly attributed to Hyde on this site?
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nope, i saw a kid spit in a teachers face, but the teacher didn't try and harm the kid they were in the middle of an argument.
that was the worst i saw
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It seems to me that a lot of the posts here against Hyde are from the same people over and over again, often hiding their identity by not logging on.
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It seems to me that a lot of the posts here against Hyde are from the same people over and over again, often hiding their identity by not logging on.
A lot of the posts here are the same people over and over again who are proponents of Hyde. Could even be one person from hyde who writes positive comments
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nope, i saw a kid spit in a teachers face, but the teacher didn't try and harm the kid they were in the middle of an argument.
that was the worst i saw
true...that's about it. the worst a teacher did was my sophomore year, Mr. Bowles put a restraining order on this brolic student Adam Freed and didn't tell anybody, so they fired him mid-year. and lots of students spitting in teachers faces without teachers doing anything harmful back.
-Bill Procida '07
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Billy, you must have an incredibly strong neck to carry around such weighty blinders! :lol:
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Billy, you must have an incredibly strong neck to carry around such weighty blinders! :lol:
When you are there it is difficult not to buy in and have a tasty gulp of Gauld Kool-Aide. Don't pick on poor Billy, he is just doing the best he can given the cards he has been dealt. Don't beat the victims.
Norm Degarre
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In all seriousness, I could not agree more. I don't wish to pick on Billy per se, he seems like a good sort, but he has chosen to put himself out there. And the blinders are simply unbelievable.
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In all seriousness, I could not agree more. I don't wish to pick on Billy per se, he seems like a good sort, but he has chosen to put himself out there. And the blinders are simply unbelievable.
Hey, I had blinders on too and I was not in my teens like Bill. I was a parent with my head in the sand! It can happen especially when you are a desperate parent trying to help your child.
Hyde is pitiful. The one good thing that came out of my Hyde experience is the desire to help at risk kids. I am involved in a program in the NY schools. We give support to these kids in the right manner, not with scare tactics and punishments. It is done with love and support. Hyde is not the only program that needs to be shut down. There are lots of programs like Hyde that need to be regulated. It is very dangerous to send your kid to a program or school that isn't regulated by the department of education. Whether it be a wilderness program, a "character based" school, a therapuetic boarding school, etc, we need to protect our children!
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I appreciate your comment. When I was Bill's age, I had blinders on too. And the comment could have been expanded to include not only thick neck, but thick head too, as applied to me. Maybe if someone had cared enough or bothered enough to make that comment to me, I might have woken up sooner. Who knows...
Hyde is not the only program that needs to be shut down. There are lots of programs like Hyde that need to be regulated. It is very dangerous to send your kid to a program or school that isn't regulated by the department of education. Whether it be a wilderness program, a "character based" school, a therapuetic boarding school, etc, we need to protect our children!
The problem with these types of places is the premise that thought coercion and behavior modification works and is to the benefit of the child. Notice that so-called followup studies always evaluate after 2 months or so and then a year, never more than that. It is later that the shit really hits the fan. Nobody appreciates having their mind fucked with and there is understandably a certain and expected amount of rage that erupts as a backlash to that. It is an undeniable assault to the dignity and the autonomy of the human spirit. You can not disrespect a kid more than that.
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I appreciate your comment. When I was Bill's age, I had blinders on too. And the comment could have been expanded to include not only thick neck, but thick head too, as applied to me. Maybe if someone had cared enough or bothered enough to make that comment to me, I might have woken up sooner. Who knows...
Hyde is not the only program that needs to be shut down. There are lots of programs like Hyde that need to be regulated. It is very dangerous to send your kid to a program or school that isn't regulated by the department of education. Whether it be a wilderness program, a "character based" school, a therapuetic boarding school, etc, we need to protect our children!
The problem with these types of places is the premise that thought coercion and behavior modification works and is to the benefit of the child. Notice that so-called followup studies always evaluate after 2 months or so and then a year, never more than that. It is later that the shit really hits the fan. Nobody appreciates having their mind fucked with and there is understandably a certain and expected amount of rage that erupts as a backlash to that. It is an undeniable assault to the dignity and the autonomy of the human spirit. You can not disrespect a kid more than that.
On that same note, I spoke to someone on Fornits whose brother committed suicide at the age of 18 after one of these programs broke him down to nothing. They did not succeed in building him back up and was found out to be bi polar. Without the proper medical help, (which hyde does not provide either) he couldn't deal with life and killed himself. This destroyed not only his life, but the life of everyone around him. If we could continue to get the word out there, maybe we can save some lives.
Don't give up. Keep posting and keep getting others to come to this board. Write your stories and send them to the NEASC as well as the school boards where Hyde has Charter Schools. Let them know of the "character" behind the administration of Hyde. Let's make a difference!
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I appreciate your comment. When I was Bill's age, I had blinders on too. And the comment could have been expanded to include not only thick neck, but thick head too, as applied to me. Maybe if someone had cared enough or bothered enough to make that comment to me, I might have woken up sooner. Who knows...
Hyde is not the only program that needs to be shut down. There are lots of programs like Hyde that need to be regulated. It is very dangerous to send your kid to a program or school that isn't regulated by the department of education. Whether it be a wilderness program, a "character based" school, a therapuetic boarding school, etc, we need to protect our children!
The problem with these types of places is the premise that thought coercion and behavior modification works and is to the benefit of the child. Notice that so-called followup studies always evaluate after 2 months or so and then a year, never more than that. It is later that the shit really hits the fan. Nobody appreciates having their mind fucked with and there is understandably a certain and expected amount of rage that erupts as a backlash to that. It is an undeniable assault to the dignity and the autonomy of the human spirit. You can not disrespect a kid more than that.
I found the following quote on the ISACCORP website. Really bizarre!! It was written by Joe Gauld the founder of Hyde Schools.
Since kids - and their parents have been far more immersed in this counter growth culture than has Hyde, Hyde can be far more objective about how to best address the true growth needs of kids. And given the limited time available, Hyde insists on being the final judge on growth issues. We are in a better position than parents to determine a students true best, and further we consider our commitment to help each student realize that best a sacred trust.
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Okay... ... this needs to be done at some point... Here's the entire treatise. All punctuation and grammar are entirely his, I was meticulous.
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http://www.isaccorp.org/hyde/joegauldletter01.jpg (http://www.isaccorp.org/hyde/joegauldletter01.jpg)
http://www.isaccorp.org/hyde/joegauldletter02.jpg (http://www.isaccorp.org/hyde/joegauldletter02.jpg)
"Isn't Hyde Ever Wrong?"
A Hyde parent, upset with a Hyde decision, asks, "Isn't Hyde ever wrong?"
Of course Hyde is sometimes wrong. It is a human institution that requires the constant vigil of students, teachers and parents alike. In fact, Hyde is merely a temporary scaffolding that must be dismantled by graduation, to ensure the student is led in life by conscience and not Hyde--or even parents. If we both "let go" properly, we should be confident that conscience will only take from Hyde--and parents--what it deems worthy.
However, I think the question implies that maybe the parent and not Hyde knows better about a given situation. Maybe so, but that is dangerous ground that can ultimately lead to students dismissing all of Hyde, both bad--and good. This question simply does not respect the role Hyde is supposed to play in the family structure.
The caterpillar depends upon nature's cocoon to become a butterfly. Similarly, a child must depend upon our human cocoon to be transformed from its initial animal self into a higher human self. And the true quality of an individual's transformation is determined during childhood-adolescence; seldom if ever do we make major change in ourselves later.
Since society is presently very ignorant about this powerful truth about human growth, the human cocoons we are constructing around our children are sloppy and porous, and often compromise a child's best growth:
- Society does not realize the depth of a child's animal instincts of self-gratification and subjective fears and desires, and thus doesn't fully help the child transcend them;
- Families don't recognize their incredibly interwoven nature and how much family dynamics can compromise a child's best growth;
- Societal and family ignorance have created a huge and powerful youth culture that reaffirms children's animal instincts and resists their human transcendence.
Hyde generally deals with kids who have been unusually influenced by those three factors, and, unfortunately, at a late point in their adolescent gestation period. So to counter this, Hyde creates a very intensive growth cocoon focused on character development that seeks to help students: 1) transcend their animal instincts; 2) combat negative family dynamics, and 3) create a new youth culture committed to each student's best.
Since kids--and their parents--have been far more immersed in this counter growth culture than has Hyde, Hyde can be far more objective about how to best address the true growth needs of kids. And given the limited time available, Hyde insists on being the final judge on growth issues. We are in a better position than parents to determine a student's true best, and further we consider our commitment to help each student realize that best a sacred trust.
So--Yes, we may be wrong, and thus we appreciate all the input we can get. However in the end, we urge parents that until graduation to defer to Hyde's judgment, not their own. To instead accept their own judgment becomes a clear statement to their children that the Hyde experience is simply an add-on to old family dynamics, and not a new beginning for the entire family.
If you are wise, you don't second-guess your doctor; you simply find another doctor. Similarly, question Hyde, but don't second-guess it, simply find another school.
Remember that Hyde is a temporary scaffolding, to be dismantled at graduation. But if you hope to help your kids internalize Hyde concepts and to develop a life-time strategy to fully make their human transformation, make sure that your leadership fully respects that scaffolding as well.
— Joe Gauld 2/27/02
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I appreciate your comment. When I was Bill's age, I had blinders on too. And the comment could have been expanded to include not only thick neck, but thick head too, as applied to me. Maybe if someone had cared enough or bothered enough to make that comment to me, I might have woken up sooner. Who knows...
Hyde is not the only program that needs to be shut down. There are lots of programs like Hyde that need to be regulated. It is very dangerous to send your kid to a program or school that isn't regulated by the department of education. Whether it be a wilderness program, a "character based" school, a therapuetic boarding school, etc, we need to protect our children!
The problem with these types of places is the premise that thought coercion and behavior modification works and is to the benefit of the child. Notice that so-called followup studies always evaluate after 2 months or so and then a year, never more than that. It is later that the shit really hits the fan. Nobody appreciates having their mind fucked with and there is understandably a certain and expected amount of rage that erupts as a backlash to that. It is an undeniable assault to the dignity and the autonomy of the human spirit. You can not disrespect a kid more than that.
I found the following quote on the ISACCORP website. Really bizarre!! It was written by Joe Gauld the founder of Hyde Schools.
Since kids - and their parents have been far more immersed in this counter growth culture than has Hyde, Hyde can be far more objective about how to best address the true growth needs of kids. And given the limited time available, Hyde insists on being the final judge on growth issues. We are in a better position than parents to determine a students true best, and further we consider our commitment to help each student realize that best a sacred trust.
This Joe Gauld character (speaking of character education) sounds like a man with delusions of grandeur. Hyde must be quite a place with someone like him at the helm. I can picture him berating students and acting quite sanctimoniously. Is that the right profile?
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Jesus Christ!
Transcend animal instincts? Hyde just redirects it. Bad family dynamics? Sure substitute the Gauld families' bad dynamics for yours. A new youth culture? I am seeing a social realism poster in my mind with two young people holding up Joe's Little Red Book. Where does he get this stuff from?
What a hoot
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Well, I suppose one could say he has his "endearing qualities," but then so did Jim Jones and we all know now how that scenario ended up. I think the correct term might be one of a few rather unflattering profiles in a Psychology 101 textbook, which I feel constrained to elaborate on at the moment...
see here for the full pontification:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17336&start=14 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17336&start=14)
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I appreciate your comment. When I was Bill's age, I had blinders on too. And the comment could have been expanded to include not only thick neck, but thick head too, as applied to me. Maybe if someone had cared enough or bothered enough to make that comment to me, I might have woken up sooner. Who knows...
Hyde is not the only program that needs to be shut down. There are lots of programs like Hyde that need to be regulated. It is very dangerous to send your kid to a program or school that isn't regulated by the department of education. Whether it be a wilderness program, a "character based" school, a therapuetic boarding school, etc, we need to protect our children!
The problem with these types of places is the premise that thought coercion and behavior modification works and is to the benefit of the child. Notice that so-called followup studies always evaluate after 2 months or so and then a year, never more than that. It is later that the shit really hits the fan. Nobody appreciates having their mind fucked with and there is understandably a certain and expected amount of rage that erupts as a backlash to that. It is an undeniable assault to the dignity and the autonomy of the human spirit. You can not disrespect a kid more than that.
I found the following quote on the ISACCORP website. Really bizarre!! It was written by Joe Gauld the founder of Hyde Schools.
Since kids - and their parents have been far more immersed in this counter growth culture than has Hyde, Hyde can be far more objective about how to best address the true growth needs of kids. And given the limited time available, Hyde insists on being the final judge on growth issues. We are in a better position than parents to determine a students true best, and further we consider our commitment to help each student realize that best a sacred trust.
This Joe Gauld character (speaking of character education) sounds like a man with delusions of grandeur. Hyde must be quite a place with someone like him at the helm. I can picture him berating students and acting quite sanctimoniously. Is that the right profile?
The words "obedience" and "submission" come to mind when I think of the "Hyde Experience." Seems that this Joe Gauld who runs the place believes he is the messiah! After reading some of this material on this website I would say that this Hyde School is as close to a Cult as they come.
The question at this point might be, how can you help change Hyde School or is it beyond repair and should it be shut down? Will the administration listen to constructive critism and are they willing to make some changes that could include changing their hiring practices? Are they willing to take a look at themselves and turn over the reigns to people better qualified to give a true Character Educatiion which includes positive reinforcement? Are they willing to have professional staff living on campus who will deal with problems such as depression, anorexia, drug and alcohol abuse? How about these kids who have had some form of sexual abuse both at home and at the hands of Hyde? What does Hyde do for them other than seminaring?
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Well, I suppose one could say he has his "endearing qualities," but then so did Jim Jones and we all know now how that scenario ended up. I think the correct term might be one of a few rather unflattering profiles in a Psychology 101 textbook, which I feel constrained to elaborate on at the moment...
see here for the full pontification:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17336&start=14 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=17336&start=14)
Some one posted on this site a description of a set of personal behaviors. You read down the list and you say "yup,thats Joe, yup thats Joe ..." then you get to the end. The description is of Adolf Hitler. Pretty shocking. Joe and Adolf had the same bad family dynamic" doting mother, strict step father. Perhaps one of you dedicated anti-cooersive types could fish that out and post it here.
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Okay, guys, here you go... I hope this is what you are looking for? This was from March 2006. The link will take you straight to that post in case you want to read onwards (or "pre-wards") in the thread; in the meantime, I've copied the requested portion below.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=13050&start=146 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=13050&start=146)
...The words "rage, "abuse," "tirade," "tantrum," and "outburst" come to mind, although the list is by no means exhaustive.
In fact, the following passage, written by the CIA's predecessor agency about another individual who had memorable rages, contains various details (e.g., biting objects, spittle, purple face) that might ring a bell for you [I have substituted the name of Joe for the name of the original subject]:
"Almost everyone who has written about [Joe Gauld] has commented on his rages. These are well known to all of his associates and they have learned to fear them. The descriptions of his behavior during these rages vary considerably. The more extreme descriptions claim that at the climax he rolls on the floor and chews on [substitute "tennis balls" for "the carpets"] ...
Even without this added touch of chewing [substitute "tennis balls" for "the carpet"], his behavior is still extremely violent and shows an utter lack of emotional control. In the worst rages he undoubtedly acts like a spoiled child who cannot have his own way and bangs his fists on the tables and walls. He scolds and shouts and stammers and on some occasions foaming saliva gathers in the corners of his mouth ...
"He was an alarming sight, his hair disheveled, his eyes fixed, and his face distorted and purple. I feared that he would collapse or have a stroke ...
"It must not be supposed, however, that these rages occur only when he is crossed on major issues. On the contrary, very insignificant matters might call out this reaction. In general they are brought on whenever anyone contradicts him, when there is unpleasant news for which he might feel responsible, when there is any skepticism concerning his judgment or when a situation arises in which his infallibility might be challenged or belittled. ... [A]mong his staff there is a tactic [sic] understanding: "For God's sake don't excite [Joe] - which means do not tell him bad news -- do not mention things which are not as he conceives them to be."
"Many writers believe that these rages are just play acting. There is much to be said for this point of view since [Joe's] first reaction to the unpleasant situation is not indignation, as one would ordinarily expect under these circumstances. He goes off into a rage or tirade without warning. Similarly, when he has finished, there is no aftermath. He immediately cools down and begins to talk about other matters in a perfectly calm tone of voice as though nothing had happened. Occasionally he will look around sheepishly, as if to see if anyone is laughing, and then proceeds with other matters, without the slightest trace of resentment.
"Some of his closest associates have felt that he induces these rages consciously to frighten those about him ... [a] technique by which he would throw his entire entourage into confusion by well-timed fits of rage and thus make them more submissive ...
"Rage and abuse became the favorite weapons in his armory ...
"This is not the time to enter into a detailed discussion concerning the nature and purpose of the rages. It is sufficient, for the present time, to realize that his associates are well aware that [Joe] can and does behave in this way. It is a part of the [Joe] they know and are forced to deal with. We may point out, however, that they are not conscious acting alone since it is quite impossible for an actor to actually become purple in the face unless he really is in an emotional state.
"... If we examine the causes of these outbursts, we almost invariably find that the trigger which sets them off is something which he considers to be a challenge of his super-man personality. It may be a contradiction, a criticism or even a doubt concerning the truth or wisdom of something he has said or done, or it might be a slight or the anticipation of opposition. Even though the subject may be trifling or the challenge only by implication, or even wholly imagined, he feels called upon to display his primitive character ... To contradict him is in his eyes a crime of 'lese-majeste'; opposition to his plans, from whatever it may come, is a definite sacrilege, to which the only reply is an immediate and striking display of his omnipotence.
"As soon as his display has served its purpose and cowed his listeners into submission, it is turned off as suddenly as it was turned on. How great is the insecurity which demands such constant vigilence and apprehension!
"... we must ferret out and seek to correct the underlying factors which produced the unwelcome phenomenon. We must discover the psychological streams which nourish this destructive state of mind in order that we may divert them into channels which will permit a further evolution of our form of civilization."
Source:
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hit ... index.html (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/profile-index.html)
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Okay, guys, here you go... I hope this is what you are looking for? This was from March 2006. The link will take you straight to that post in case you want to read onwards (or "pre-wards") in the thread; in the meantime, I've copied the requested portion below.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=13050&start=146 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=13050&start=146)
...The words "rage, "abuse," "tirade," "tantrum," and "outburst" come to mind, although the list is by no means exhaustive.
In fact, the following passage, written by the CIA's predecessor agency about another individual who had memorable rages, contains various details (e.g., biting objects, spittle, purple face) that might ring a bell for you [I have substituted the name of Joe for the name of the original subject]:
"Almost everyone who has written about [Joe Gauld] has commented on his rages. These are well known to all of his associates and they have learned to fear them. The descriptions of his behavior during these rages vary considerably. The more extreme descriptions claim that at the climax he rolls on the floor and chews on [substitute "tennis balls" for "the carpets"] ...
Even without this added touch of chewing [substitute "tennis balls" for "the carpet"], his behavior is still extremely violent and shows an utter lack of emotional control. In the worst rages he undoubtedly acts like a spoiled child who cannot have his own way and bangs his fists on the tables and walls. He scolds and shouts and stammers and on some occasions foaming saliva gathers in the corners of his mouth ...
"He was an alarming sight, his hair disheveled, his eyes fixed, and his face distorted and purple. I feared that he would collapse or have a stroke ...
"It must not be supposed, however, that these rages occur only when he is crossed on major issues. On the contrary, very insignificant matters might call out this reaction. In general they are brought on whenever anyone contradicts him, when there is unpleasant news for which he might feel responsible, when there is any skepticism concerning his judgment or when a situation arises in which his infallibility might be challenged or belittled. ... [A]mong his staff there is a tactic [sic] understanding: "For God's sake don't excite [Joe] - which means do not tell him bad news -- do not mention things which are not as he conceives them to be."
"Many writers believe that these rages are just play acting. There is much to be said for this point of view since [Joe's] first reaction to the unpleasant situation is not indignation, as one would ordinarily expect under these circumstances. He goes off into a rage or tirade without warning. Similarly, when he has finished, there is no aftermath. He immediately cools down and begins to talk about other matters in a perfectly calm tone of voice as though nothing had happened. Occasionally he will look around sheepishly, as if to see if anyone is laughing, and then proceeds with other matters, without the slightest trace of resentment.
"Some of his closest associates have felt that he induces these rages consciously to frighten those about him ... [a] technique by which he would throw his entire entourage into confusion by well-timed fits of rage and thus make them more submissive ...
"Rage and abuse became the favorite weapons in his armory ...
"This is not the time to enter into a detailed discussion concerning the nature and purpose of the rages. It is sufficient, for the present time, to realize that his associates are well aware that [Joe] can and does behave in this way. It is a part of the [Joe] they know and are forced to deal with. We may point out, however, that they are not conscious acting alone since it is quite impossible for an actor to actually become purple in the face unless he really is in an emotional state.
"... If we examine the causes of these outbursts, we almost invariably find that the trigger which sets them off is something which he considers to be a challenge of his super-man personality. It may be a contradiction, a criticism or even a doubt concerning the truth or wisdom of something he has said or done, or it might be a slight or the anticipation of opposition. Even though the subject may be trifling or the challenge only by implication, or even wholly imagined, he feels called upon to display his primitive character ... To contradict him is in his eyes a crime of 'lese-majeste'; opposition to his plans, from whatever it may come, is a definite sacrilege, to which the only reply is an immediate and striking display of his omnipotence.
"As soon as his display has served its purpose and cowed his listeners into submission, it is turned off as suddenly as it was turned on. How great is the insecurity which demands such constant vigilence and apprehension!
"... we must ferret out and seek to correct the underlying factors which produced the unwelcome phenomenon. We must discover the psychological streams which nourish this destructive state of mind in order that we may divert them into channels which will permit a further evolution of our form of civilization."
Source:
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hit ... index.html (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/h/hitler-adolf/oss-papers/text/profile-index.html)
And this is a man you entrust your kids to? He sounds more like a psycho than someone who runs a boarding school that teaches character education.
Does he also run the charter schools? Certainly there are more stringent rules that he cannot break when dealing with public monies. This must drive a man like him crazy. It would be a form of abuse if he were to have his tirades at the charter schools. Am i correct about this? Is there anyone on this board who is affiliated with the Charter Schools who can answer this?
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I was a real hoot to watch him bite and gnaw at a tennis ball. Talk about controlling and transcending animal instincts.
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Let's get animal, animal, I wanna get animal, let's get into animal
Let me hear your body talk, your body talk, let me hear your body talk
Oblivious Neutron Bomb
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Let's get animal, animal, I wanna get animal, let's get into animal
Let me hear your body talk, your body talk, let me hear your body talk
Oblivious Neutron Bomb
Ooo Dreamweaver, I believe you can
get me through the night
Ooo Dreamweaver, I believe we can
reach the morning light
Bow wow, Joe.
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...Due to his time serving in the British Colonial Office in Malaya, Burgess thought that the phrase could be used punningly to refer to a mechanically responsive (clockwork) human (orang, Malay for "person"). It is possible, however, that Burgess invented the phrase as a play upon the expression "a work of pith and moment".
Burgess wrote in his later introduction, A Clockwork Orange Resucked, that a creature who can only perform good or evil is "a clockwork orange--meaning that he has the appearance of an organism lovely with colour and juice, but is in fact only a clockwork toy to be wound up by God or the Devil; or the almighty state."
In his essay "Clockwork Oranges"², Burgess asserts that "this title would be appropriate for a story about the application of Pavlovian, or mechanical, laws to an organism which, like a fruit, was capable of colour and sweetness". This title alludes to the protagonist's negatively conditioned responses to feelings of evil which prevent the exercise of his free will.
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange)
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...Due to his time serving in the British Colonial Office in Malaya, Burgess thought that the phrase could be used punningly to refer to a mechanically responsive (clockwork) human (orang, Malay for "person"). It is possible, however, that Burgess invented the phrase as a play upon the expression "a work of pith and moment".
Burgess wrote in his later introduction, A Clockwork Orange Resucked, that a creature who can only perform good or evil is "a clockwork orange ? meaning that he has the appearance of an organism lovely with colour and juice, but is in fact only a clockwork toy to be wound up by God or the Devil; or the almighty state."
In his essay "Clockwork Oranges"², Burgess asserts that "this title would be appropriate for a story about the application of Pavlovian, or mechanical, laws to an organism which, like a fruit, was capable of colour and sweetness". This title alludes to the protagonist's negatively conditioned responses to feelings of evil which prevent the exercise of his free will.
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange)
Mr Bear,
Thanks for that truely horrorshow post.
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:Cloc ... t_milk.jpg (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:Clockwork_orange_got_milk.jpg)
yours,
alex
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It would be a form of abuse if he were to have his tirades at the charter schools. Am i correct about this?
It's all abuse. From A to Z.
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It would be a form of abuse if he were to have his tirades at the charter schools. Am i correct about this?
It's all abuse. From A to Z.
Who was it that said daylight is the best disinfectant? Some of that stuff that happens at the boarding schools, like mushrooms, can only take place in the dark. In the daylight of public accountably it can not exist. I would guess that was what drove the letter that Joe wrote to DC board apologizing for his behavior. That must have been a bitter pill for him to swallow. I can see him thrashing about in the throws of a tantrum like Helen Keller in the "Miracle Worker" coming to terms with it.
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I think you all will be shocked if you go to WWW.guidestar.com (http://WWW.guidestar.com). You can register for free and then type in Hyde Schools. Go to the 990 form that is public information. This is the IRS form that Hyde has to fill out as a non profit. You can see the information for Hyde School Woodstock, Hyde School DC, Hyde Foundation, and Hyde School Bath Maine. I was flabergasted to see the bucks they have at that place. Boy do I feel like a fool and so will you if you look at this information. SHAME ON YOU HYDE!!! How dare you get up in the auditorium and infer that you are doing this for the kids and then beg us for money saying that the school needs it in spite of the high tuition! It is obvious by looking at these IRS forms that you could charge a lot less money for tuition, although you then would not be as wealthy as you are!! Amazing that you can't bring yourself to spending more money on professional staff and on the kids!! The $$$ are certainly there!!
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Hi,
The other advantage (to Hyde) to hiring green staff with personal issues is that they can be manipulated using the same techniques employed on students and parents. You have the same small cadre of puppet masters and a constantly changing cast of puppets. It is a sweet sweet system ... if you are a Guald
Il ce non vrai?
Norm DeGuerre
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It would be a form of abuse if he were to have his tirades at the charter schools. Am i correct about this?
It's all abuse. From A to Z.
Who was it that said daylight is the best disinfectant? Some of that stuff that happens at the boarding schools, like mushrooms, can only take place in the dark. In the daylight of public accountably it can not exist. I would guess that was what drove the letter that Joe wrote to DC board apologizing for his behavior. That must have been a bitter pill for him to swallow. I can see him thrashing about in the throws of a tantrum like Helen Keller in the "Miracle Worker" coming to terms with it.
from: http://www.bartleby.com/73/1572.html (http://www.bartleby.com/73/1572.html)
AUTHOR: Louis Dembitz Brandeis (1856-1941)
QUOTATION: Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman.
ATTRIBUTION: LOUIS D. BRANDEIS, "What Publicity Can Do," Other People's Money, chapter 5, p. 92 (1932). First published in Harper's Weekly, December 20, 1913.
SUBJECTS: Publicity
BIOGRAPHY: Columbia Encyclopedia
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Hi,
The other advantage (to Hyde) to hiring green staff with personal issues is that they can be manipulated using the same techniques employed on students and parents. You have the same small cadre of puppet masters and a constantly changing cast of puppets. It is a sweet sweet system ... if you are a Guald
Il ce non vrai?
Norm DeGuerre
Hyde seems to hire a steady stream of young, impressionable faculty who don't stick around long. Clearly some of them have their own major issues. What's especially troubling is that Hyde gives these people incredible power and authority when they have little skill and wisdom to enable them to use the power and authority responsibly. The result is too much incompetence and abuse. When these young staff have Joe Gauld as a role model, the problem is compounded. No wonder Hyde suffers from such controversy and ill repute.
-
Hi,
The other advantage (to Hyde) to hiring green staff with personal issues is that they can be manipulated using the same techniques employed on students and parents. You have the same small cadre of puppet masters and a constantly changing cast of puppets. It is a sweet sweet system ... if you are a Guald
Il ce non vrai?
Norm DeGuerre
Hyde seems to hire a steady stream of young, impressionable faculty who don't stick around long. Clearly some of them have their own major issues. What's especially troubling is that Hyde gives these people incredible power and authority when they have little skill and wisdom to enable them to use the power and authority responsibly. The result is too much incompetence and abuse. When these young staff have Joe Gauld as a role model, the problem is compounded. No wonder Hyde suffers from such controversy and ill repute.
At this point in my view of Hyde is that it is a cynical institution. I do not believe that hyde believes the stated mission. Hyde is like the patent medicine hucksters of old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_medicine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_medicine)
The goal is not to cure or relieve but to addict the victim to the nostrum.
Norm DeGuerre
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All the crap we guinea pigs went through thirty plus years ago would be a lot more bearable were the current crop of guinea pigs not still being wrung through the same old mind-raping bullshit.
You would think that, at the very least, Hyde has had plenty of time to perfect or at least improve their educating skills and to come up with some better post-Hyde statistics, were this really their goal. Yet, even today, you still hear horror stories from too many fronts... And between all the adjectives, the anger, and the innuendo, the bottom line is that there truly is a lot of pain and trauma going down.
Is Hyde incompetent? Perhaps. But perhaps competence or incompetence is not the question. Hyde hasn't changed their modus operandi because they do not wish to, and they do not think they need to. They see nothing wrong with twisting some hapless adolescent's emerging psyche to fall in line with the "Program's position." The end is so laudable in their eyes, that it justifies any means.
If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means--to declare that the Government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal--would bring terrible retribution.
Justice LOUIS D. BRANDEIS, dissenting, Olmstead et al. v. United States, 277 U.S. 485 (1928).
http://www.bartleby.com/73/707.html (http://www.bartleby.com/73/707.html)
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All the crap we guinea pigs went through thirty plus years ago would be a lot more bearable were the current crop of guinea pigs not still being wrung through the same old mind-raping bullshit.
You would think that, at the very least, Hyde has had plenty of time to perfect or at least improve their educating skills and to come up with some better post-Hyde statistics, were this really their goal. Yet, even today, you still hear horror stories from too many fronts... And between all the adjectives, the anger, and the innuendo, the bottom line is that there truly is a lot of pain and trauma going down.
Is Hyde incompetent? Perhaps. But perhaps competence or incompetence is not the question. Hyde hasn't changed their modus operandi because they do not wish to, and they do not think they need to. They see nothing wrong with twisting some hapless adolescent's emerging psyche to fall in line with the "Program's position." The end is so laudable in their eyes, that it justifies any means.
If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means?to declare that the Government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal?would bring terrible retribution.
Justice LOUIS D. BRANDEIS, dissenting, Olmstead et al. v. United States, 277 U.S. 485 (1928).
http://www.bartleby.com/73/707.html (http://www.bartleby.com/73/707.html)
very well said my friend. Hyde is a toxic place. Hyde needs to stop lying on their promotional materials. Stop portraying yourself as a "school" who has a good education system in place, stop stretching the truth about the high percentage of graduates going to college, stop misleading parents into thinking their kids are in a safe environment, because NON OF THIS IS TRUE!!!!!!! Remember what you teach at Hyde "the truth will set you free."
I for one wish that Gary would write his story. The story of a "character based" program which calls themselves a school and has a Cult following. There is so much material that comes into play re the abuse, kids not going to school for a wk as a punishment, lack of medical care, inadequate staff or staff without the proper credentials. What about the millions of dollars they keep when a family pays for the year but pulls out after a month when they are scared away by the psycho Joe Gauld.
It is all wrong. I thank the poster who put up the info on Guidestar which shows how much the school makes. Joe Gauld and his entire family have themselves quite a fortune. By the way, have you ever heard of a family whose son, two daughters, and all their husbands and wives work for the same company? It smells so much of a Cult!
I wonder what they all do with their millions. They are much more fortunate than you or I. They have no housing, food, education, travel, or any other expenses. The only thing this family has to buy for themselves is clothes. Did you see how much the different corporations spend on travel and fundraising? Unbelievable that the board does not care about this, but then again they have selected the board very carefully.
Why don't you answer for some of this Hyde. Enquiring minds want to know. Is it a scam?
-
All the crap we guinea pigs went through thirty plus years ago would be a lot more bearable were the current crop of guinea pigs not still being wrung through the same old mind-raping bullshit.
You would think that, at the very least, Hyde has had plenty of time to perfect or at least improve their educating skills and to come up with some better post-Hyde statistics, were this really their goal. Yet, even today, you still hear horror stories from too many fronts... And between all the adjectives, the anger, and the innuendo, the bottom line is that there truly is a lot of pain and trauma going down.
Is Hyde incompetent? Perhaps. But perhaps competence or incompetence is not the question. Hyde hasn't changed their modus operandi because they do not wish to, and they do not think they need to. They see nothing wrong with twisting some hapless adolescent's emerging psyche to fall in line with the "Program's position." The end is so laudable in their eyes, that it justifies any means.
If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means?to declare that the Government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal?would bring terrible retribution.
Justice LOUIS D. BRANDEIS, dissenting, Olmstead et al. v. United States, 277 U.S. 485 (1928).
http://www.bartleby.com/73/707.html (http://www.bartleby.com/73/707.html)
very well said my friend. Hyde is a toxic place. Hyde needs to stop lying on their promotional materials. Stop portraying yourself as a "school" who has a good education system in place, stop stretching the truth about the high percentage of graduates going to college, stop misleading parents into thinking their kids are in a safe environment, because NON OF THIS IS TRUE!!!!!!! Remember what you teach at Hyde "the truth will set you free."
I for one wish that Gary would write his story. The story of a "character based" program which calls themselves a school and has a Cult following. There is so much material that comes into play re the abuse, kids not going to school for a wk as a punishment, lack of medical care, inadequate staff or staff without the proper credentials. What about the millions of dollars they keep when a family pays for the year but pulls out after a month when they are scared away by the psycho Joe Gauld.
It is all wrong. I thank the poster who put up the info on Guidestar which shows how much the school makes. Joe Gauld and his entire family have themselves quite a fortune. By the way, have you ever heard of a family whose son, two daughters, and all their husbands and wives work for the same company? It smells so much of a Cult!
I wonder what they all do with their millions. They are much more fortunate than you or I. They have no housing, food, education, travel, or any other expenses. The only thing this family has to buy for themselves is clothes. Did you see how much the different corporations spend on travel and fundraising? Unbelievable that the board does not care about this, but then again they have selected the board very carefully.
Why don't you answer for some of this Hyde. Enquiring minds want to know. Is it a scam?
The Board is in on it. Lennox Black. Follow the money.
DEEP THROAT
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Dear Uncle Rico (s), hyde is part scam, you are right. But did your parents not send you there because you failed other school enviornments?...it is a lifeboat for panicked well to do parents with screwed up kids...that is its reason for existance, and the free market will support the $$$ there...instead of chat rooming why not ask what lead to your placement in Hyde?...and why you now spend all this time "chatting"...do you guys have jobs?? for some of you it was 30 years ago...there is no time machine , the coach is not going to put you in some long passed game....your nephew...Napoleon Dynamite
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Dear Uncle Rico (s), hyde is part scam, you are right. But did your parents not send you there because you failed other school enviornments?...it is a lifeboat for panicked well to do parents with screwed up kids...that is its reason for existance, and the free market will support the $$$ there...instead of chat rooming why not ask what lead to your placement in Hyde?...and why you now spend all this time "chatting"...do you guys have jobs?? for some of you it was 30 years ago...there is no time machine , the coach is not going to put you in some long passed game....your nephew...Napoleon Dynamite
Correction: It is a lifeboat for screwed up parents with panicked kids.
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Dear Uncle Rico (s), hyde is part scam, you are right.
No argument here... ::noway::
But did your parents not send you there because you failed other school enviornments?
No, I was doing quite well, thank you. Better than I ever did at Hyde, but that was because my academics weren't yet artificially deflated by alleged character "deficiencies."
...it is a lifeboat for panicked well to do parents with screwed up kids.
No, sorry, my parents were not well off. The tuition strained the family budget considerably. I am ashamed when I look back and remember how difficult things were financially. And I was not screwed up, just suffered from Major Depression. Of course, you know what label that bought me at Hyde...
::bangin::
...that is its reason for existance, and the free market will support the $$$ there.
Hopefully the free market will come to its senses soon, before the wealth gets disproportionately concentrated in the pockets of a select few Down East.
...instead of chat rooming why not ask what lead to your placement in Hyde?
Hmmm... let's see.... naivete, idealism, the desire for not only self-improvement, but also greater World Peace?
...and why you now spend all this time "chatting"...do you guys have jobs??
We're on a mission... from G O D. ::unhappy::
for some of you it was 30 years ago...
A N D counting... Gee, how time flies when you're not having much fun. :rofl:
there is no time machine , the coach is not going to put you in some long passed game...
Hopefully not a game of passing gas, as this has been quite a long-winded reply... ::kma::
Well, my fine friend Napoleon Dynamite, I respectfully hope I have adequately addressed your concerns.
your humble hearthrug, Ursus :em:
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Dear Uncle Rico (s), hyde is part scam, you are right. But did your parents not send you there because you failed other school enviornments?...it is a lifeboat for panicked well to do parents with screwed up kids...that is its reason for existance, and the free market will support the $$$ there...instead of chat rooming why not ask what lead to your placement in Hyde?...and why you now spend all this time "chatting"...do you guys have jobs?? for some of you it was 30 years ago...there is no time machine , the coach is not going to put you in some long passed game....your nephew...Napoleon Dynamite
The free market supports Hello Kitty and Crack addiction. The market knows the price of lunch not much beyond it.
I have a very nice job thanks, I make almost as much as Mal and I actually contribute something tangible to the economy, Uncle Joe's Character Elixir step right up, step right up hurry hurry cures uppitty children that sniff cocaine and drink booze. Do you have a slutty girl child? Send 'em right up. Some of the staff specializes in deal with them. (wink wink) Have them right as rain in no time folks step right up.
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Dear Uncle Rico (s), hyde is part scam, you are right. But did your parents not send you there because you failed other school enviornments?...it is a lifeboat for panicked well to do parents with screwed up kids...that is its reason for existance, and the free market will support the $$$ there...instead of chat rooming why not ask what lead to your placement in Hyde?...and why you now spend all this time "chatting"...do you guys have jobs?? for some of you it was 30 years ago...there is no time machine , the coach is not going to put you in some long passed game....your nephew...Napoleon Dynamite
Correction: It is a lifeboat for screwed up parents with panicked kids.
Correction: it is a screwed up lifeboat for parents and kids that ought to seek professionals help, instead of Uncle Joe's Character Tonic.
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All the crap we guinea pigs went through thirty plus years ago would be a lot more bearable were the current crop of guinea pigs not still being wrung through the same old mind-raping bullshit.
You would think that, at the very least, Hyde has had plenty of time to perfect or at least improve their educating skills and to come up with some better post-Hyde statistics, were this really their goal. Yet, even today, you still hear horror stories from too many fronts... And between all the adjectives, the anger, and the innuendo, the bottom line is that there truly is a lot of pain and trauma going down.
Is Hyde incompetent? Perhaps. But perhaps competence or incompetence is not the question. Hyde hasn't changed their modus operandi because they do not wish to, and they do not think they need to. They see nothing wrong with twisting some hapless adolescent's emerging psyche to fall in line with the "Program's position." The end is so laudable in their eyes, that it justifies any means.
If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means?to declare that the Government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal?would bring terrible retribution.
Justice LOUIS D. BRANDEIS, dissenting, Olmstead et al. v. United States, 277 U.S. 485 (1928).
http://www.bartleby.com/73/707.html (http://www.bartleby.com/73/707.html)
very well said my friend. Hyde is a toxic place. Hyde needs to stop lying on their promotional materials. Stop portraying yourself as a "school" who has a good education system in place, stop stretching the truth about the high percentage of graduates going to college, stop misleading parents into thinking their kids are in a safe environment, because NON OF THIS IS TRUE!!!!!!! Remember what you teach at Hyde "the truth will set you free."
I for one wish that Gary would write his story. The story of a "character based" program which calls themselves a school and has a Cult following. There is so much material that comes into play re the abuse, kids not going to school for a wk as a punishment, lack of medical care, inadequate staff or staff without the proper credentials. What about the millions of dollars they keep when a family pays for the year but pulls out after a month when they are scared away by the psycho Joe Gauld.
It is all wrong. I thank the poster who put up the info on Guidestar which shows how much the school makes. Joe Gauld and his entire family have themselves quite a fortune. By the way, have you ever heard of a family whose son, two daughters, and all their husbands and wives work for the same company? It smells so much of a Cult!
I wonder what they all do with their millions. They are much more fortunate than you or I. They have no housing, food, education, travel, or any other expenses. The only thing this family has to buy for themselves is clothes. Did you see how much the different corporations spend on travel and fundraising? Unbelievable that the board does not care about this, but then again they have selected the board very carefully.
Why don't you answer for some of this Hyde. Enquiring minds want to know. Is it a scam?
I don't think Hyde is a scam. That is, I don't think the Gauld, et al. crowd is deliberately trying to separate parents from their money purely to enrich themselves. I don't think they're that venal.
However, I DO think that the Gauld, et al. clan is self-aggrandizing, arrogant, misguided, and haughty. I'm convinced they have a perverse, twisted sense of mission that is remarkably out of step with what the vast majority of educators think is appropriate for troubled teenagers. Hyde doesn't hold a candle to the increasingly large number of professionally run schools that serve a similar student population. Hyde survives only because it manages to attract a critical mass of uninformed, desperate parents and because of its misleading marketing. Hyde's tactics are shameful and its track record is embarrassing.
I recently took a look at Hyde's materials. They tout a survey of parents' satisfaction with Hyde. I wonder what the response rate was. I wonder if the sample included parents who left Hyde in disgust. I'd be willing to bet money that Hyde's data are as flawed and deceptive as the school itself.
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Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
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Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
I think you're right. Hyde's data and evidence are very thin indeed. They offer lots of anecdotal claims about their successes but few hard numbers. Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:
1. What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2. How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3. What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde? 10th grade? 11th grade? 12th grade? That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4. What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college? How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5. When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample? Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)? Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled? How honest is Hyde about the data they report?
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And what of the students who are forced to leave, despite being willing to be tortured some more? Is getting rid of the undesirables Hyde's way of trying to stack the stats in their favor?
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Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
I think you're right. Hyde's data and evidence are very thin indeed. They offer lots of anecdotal claims about their successes but few hard numbers. Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:
1. What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2. How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3. What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde? 10th grade? 11th grade? 12th grade? That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4. What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college? How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5. When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample? Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)? Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled? How honest is Hyde about the data they report?
This is one of the best posts I have seen. On another post Billy Procida says that no school is going to post the negative. This is true Billy, but it is one thing not to post negatives and another thing to lie on your PR material in order to entice families to join!
I think that many of us would stop questioning Hyde if they would simply answer the above questions. How can you stand for truth in one sense and not in another? Read this post carefully Billy and then ask these questions to your Superiors. Guarantee you they will not answer them. Why? Because the truth would not set them free, it would put them out of business!!!@!@!@!!@!!!
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Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
I think you're right. Hyde's data and evidence are very thin indeed. They offer lots of anecdotal claims about their successes but few hard numbers. Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:
1. What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2. How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3. What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde? 10th grade? 11th grade? 12th grade? That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4. What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college? How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5. When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample? Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)? Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled? How honest is Hyde about the data they report?
Bill: It seems clear that several of us who are posting here would love to hear the answers to the above questions. Here's my request: Would you please share these questions with Hyde administrators and let us know the answers? If they're willing to give you accurate responses, that would be great.
However, if Hyde's administrators are not willing to give you this information, I hope you will ask them why. Also, I hope you will report here on whichever response you get.
Hyde claims to believe in truth. Let's see if they're willing to honor that principle.
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Ok, leme try and crank this up a few notches.
Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
3) Hyde is part of a government subsidized long term program along with the Seed/Straight, the CEDU programs, Elan, Phoenix House, Bob Mehan's programs and those creepy Kentucky and Tennessee and Florida prison and JDC programs. It's very well documented, tweaked and adjusted over the years, extremely effective in it's aims. Just that neither we nor the program operators are privy to the objectives or the data.
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Ok, leme try and crank this up a few notches.
Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
3) Hyde is part of a government subsidized long term program along with the Seed/Straight, the CEDU programs, Elan, Phoenix House, Bob Mehan's programs and those creepy Kentucky and Tennessee and Florida prison and JDC programs. It's very well documented, tweaked and adjusted over the years, extremely effective in it's aims. Just that neither we nor the program operators are privy to the objectives or the data.
OOOOOooooo... government conspiracy! Love it. And yes, much of this would fall under that. Kind of like what was going on in the 60's vis-a-vis the Vietnam War. But I think consideration of that is probably beyond what most of us are dealing with here at the moment.
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Ok, leme try and crank this up a few notches.
Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
3) Hyde is part of a government subsidized long term program along with the Seed/Straight, the CEDU programs, Elan, Phoenix House, Bob Mehan's programs and those creepy Kentucky and Tennessee and Florida prison and JDC programs. It's very well documented, tweaked and adjusted over the years, extremely effective in it's aims. Just that neither we nor the program operators are privy to the objectives or the data.
I have a jukebox in my mind and I am hearing Camper Van Beethoven song: "this here is a government experiment."
I would add the "i" to your regex so you will match Coercion.
if ($_ ~= /coercion/i)
{
print("fuck off n");
return undef;
}
Larry Wall
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I have a jukebox in my mind and I am hearing Camper Van Beethoven song: "this here is a government experiment."
I would add the "i" to your regex so you will match Coercion.
if ($_ ~= /coercion/i)
{
print("fuck off n");
return undef;
}
Larry Wall
Really? I wonder if I have that one.
Shit, fuck! Wandering i? Oh well, I'll go fix that shortly.
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OOOOOooooo... government conspiracy! Love it. And yes, much of this would fall under that. Kind of like what was going on in the 60's vis-a-vis the Vietnam War. But I think consideration of that is probably beyond what most of us are dealing with here at the moment.
Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn?t mean politics won?t take an interest in you!
- Pericles (430 B.C.)
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Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
I think you're right. Hyde's data and evidence are very thin indeed. They offer lots of anecdotal claims about their successes but few hard numbers. Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:
1. What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2. How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3. What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde? 10th grade? 11th grade? 12th grade? That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4. What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college? How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5. When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample? Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)? Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled? How honest is Hyde about the data they report?
Bill: It seems clear that several of us who are posting here would love to hear the answers to the above questions. Here's my request: Would you please share these questions with Hyde administrators and let us know the answers? If they're willing to give you accurate responses, that would be great.
However, if Hyde's administrators are not willing to give you this information, I hope you will ask them why. Also, I hope you will report here on whichever response you get.
Hyde claims to believe in truth. Let's see if they're willing to honor that principle.
-
Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
All of the above. And more. Cults need money to survive. It's a shill game and an AmWay/Landmark Ed/Lifespring processing plant under the nebulous rubric of "character education." Fine words, no connection to the reality of it. And all too many lives damaged, destroyed, and perhaps even lost, along the way.
Sure, some people actually think it helped them. If every single Moonie or est graduate or Ramtha fanatic was unhappy with their lot, these operations would no longer be sucking in the bucks. And, as anyone with even a smidgen of understanding of statistics knows, if you've got an exam with a-b-c option answers, and you just check the same box for each, you'll be scoring 33%. Seems to me, Hyde scores far lower than that.
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Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
All of the above. And more. Cults need money to survive. It's a shill game and an AmWay/Landmark Ed/Lifespring processing plant under the nebulous rubric of "character education." Fine words, no connection to the reality of it. And all too many lives damaged, destroyed, and perhaps even lost, along the way.
Sure, some people actually think it helped them. If every single Moonie or est graduate or Ramtha fanatic was unhappy with their lot, these operations would no longer be sucking in the bucks. And, as anyone with even a smidgen of understanding of statistics knows, if you've got an exam with a-b-c option answers, and you just check the same box for each, you'll be scoring 33%. Seems to me, Hyde scores far lower than that.
I am disappointed that Billy has not responded to this request.
If Hyde is so successful on their own, then why are parents asked constantly to have "get togethers" at their homes to try and bring in more people suckers. This for sure smells of a cult who tries to recruit! My regional group was asked by Hyde on a regular basis to please have "teas" in order to find prospective parents and talk them into sending their kids to Hyde. Now Hyde is so desperate they are asking the public to get involved and come to Hyde events even if they don't have a school aged child. I suppose Joe Gauld's arrogance is reaching out further believing he can cure all!
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In order for the school to operate in the black there needs to be a certain amount of students enrolled. After graduation, it's nessesary to fill those spots with new students,m preferably Freshmen. Hyde's student/family body is supported through educational consultants, guidance counselors, and, most of all, by word of mouth. The "Tea" approach has been used for years as a why "To replace thyself".
It's not a way to overload the program and even though a higher percentage of candidates are excepted, there are a lot that are not. The school will give most families a chance to make it at the school, but there are some families and/or students and/or parents that are not ready for the program. Believe it or not there are quite a few families told to go try somewhere else.
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In order for the school to operate in the black there needs to be a certain amount of students enrolled. After graduation, it's nessesary to fill those spots with new students,m preferably Freshmen. Hyde's student/family body is supported through educational consultants, guidance counselors, and, most of all, by word of mouth. The "Tea" approach has been used for years as a why "To replace thyself".
It's not a way to overload the program and even though a higher percentage of candidates are excepted, there are a lot that are not. The school will give most families a chance to make it at the school, but there are some families and/or students and/or parents that are not ready for the program. Believe it or not there are quite a few families told to go try somewhere else.
Boy are you naive! The very good local private schools in my area do not have to have any informal gatherings to recruit candidates. Hyde does because Hyde is trying to find prospective families. This would mean that the guidance counselors, and ed consultants are obviously not sending enough kids Hyde's way!
Some students and families that are not ready for the program? You got that one right!! It is a "program", not a school and many of those families you talk about see that Hyde is a Cult and run as fast as they can. Does Hyde offer money back to those that "don't make it?" Hell no! This is how they make their money, and it is too costly for most families to go after them legally.
I do encourage any families who have been taken advantage of this way to hire an attorney and sue to get your money back including attorney's fees. Hyde does not want their name publicly displayed as someone who has been sued. They always settle which is why you don't see their name in any public dockets.,
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Believe it or not there are quite a few families told to go try somewhere else.
Oh sure I believe it ... the families with no money. I am sure that is how Phillips and St Pauls work ... teas. It the true making you miserable yet?
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The Phillips Schools and St. Paul's don't have admission teas because the kids and families are waiting in line to attend. Do you think if they drop out of one of those schools they will be refunded their tuition...NO WAY! Many prep schools make their students sign a contract upon entering their school as a Freshman stating that they will attend that school until graduation. If you pull out before, you're responsible for the tuition through their senior year whether you're there or not.
Hyde holds Teas to educate and offer options to students and families who have no where to turn. Tuition is not refunded only in some circumstances, where families pull out for no reason. They've signed a contract that lays all that out. If a student can't cut it or is a distraction to the rest of the school, they'll get their money back on a pro-rated basis. The people on this site bitching about the lack of tuition refund are those who left because they didn't want to do the work. Hyde is a school and a program. It's not a traditional prep school and dosen't claim to be and it's not a therapy school and doesn't claim to be. It's a little of both for kids and families who aren't too "off track".
I guarantee that the "Tri-State" whiney, baby-boomer attitude is behind many of the complaints you read about on fornits. Incluing Ass-Kow's passive aggressive rants and offers.
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The Phillips Schools and St. Paul's don't have admission teas because the kids and families are waiting in line to attend. Do you think if they drop out of one of those schools they will be refunded their tuition...NO WAY! Many prep schools make their students sign a contract upon entering their school as a Freshman stating that they will attend that school until graduation. If you pull out before, you're responsible for the tuition through their senior year whether you're there or not.
Hyde holds Teas to educate and offer options to students and families who have no where to turn. Tuition is not refunded only in some circumstances, where families pull out for no reason. They've signed a contract that lays all that out. If a student can't cut it or is a distraction to the rest of the school, they'll get their money back on a pro-rated basis. The people on this site bitching about the lack of tuition refund are those who left because they didn't want to do the work. Hyde is a school and a program. It's not a traditional prep school and dosen't claim to be and it's not a therapy school and doesn't claim to be. It's a little of both for kids and families who aren't too "off track".
I guarantee that the "Tri-State" whiney, baby-boomer attitude is behind many of the complaints you read about on fornits. Incluing Ass-Kow's passive aggressive rants and offers.
Now this is too funny NOT to respond to!! First of all Mr Trash Mouth, Hyde does NOT REFUND TUITION when they kick you out! They don't refund a dime and in fact I know several people who have had to hire an attorney to get it back!! I am not sure where you get this insane information, but Hyde is known for kicking people out and keeping their $$$$.
You are right. Hyde is not a therapy school or a prep school. Hyde's schooling actually a joke. If you read all the posts the kids write on Myspace you will see how the graduates of Hyde can't spell or write. They also talk about how they didn't get an education at Hyde!
As far as Hyde being for families who aren't "too off track", this is what made me laugh out loud. Whoever you are, please, please, don't insult anyone's intelligence!! If Hyde is for people who aren't "too off track" then why do they accept completely messed up kids who usually have drug and alcohol problems as well as bulimia, ADHD, etc. Hyde is not properly able to deal with this which is why so many families leave!!
You Mr Guest is the one who is completely off track for writing this post which is not even close to the truth
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May God help you should you ever experience even one tiny inkling of the trauma and hell many of the former students and parents here have been through because of Hyde. Clearly this has not been your lot. Hopefully someday you will learn to temper some of your dogmatic arrogance with empathy, as such a glaring deficiency is usually associated with an atavistic and undeveloped character. A mindset, I might add, most assuredly in keeping with the institution you claim to defend.
I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised that you should focus on one select issue, namely that of tuition refund, in lieu of addressing the larger issue, namely that of Hyde's coercive and mind-fucking methods and the damage these wreak on adolescents and their families. The tuition issue only adds fuel to the fire and serves as a tangible and quantifiable barometer of Hyde's hypocrisy and failure to live up to its promises.
Hyde holds Teas to educate and offer options to students and families who have no where to turn.
Many families, in the process of entertaining several options, leave these teas believing that they have no where else to turn but to Hyde.
Tuition is not refunded only in some circumstances, where families pull out for no reason. They've signed a contract that lays all that out. If a student can't cut it or is a distraction to the rest of the school, they'll get their money back on a pro-rated basis.
This is the most unbelievably stinky pile of bullshit you people have posted here in some time. Total LIE. And what, do tell, exactly qualifies as being "a distraction to the rest of the school?" And who makes that assessment?
The people on this site bitching about the lack of tuition refund are those who left because they didn't want to do the work.
Another stinky LIE. Who's whining here?
Hyde is a school and a program. It's not a traditional prep school and dosen't claim to be and it's not a therapy school and doesn't claim to be. It's a little of both for kids and families who aren't too "off track".
GEEEEZZ LOUISE!! Somebody didn't bone up on their deductive reasoning skills! You can't say something isn't something and yet at the same time is something in the same paragraph and expect people to take you seriously. Oh wait, this must be Hyde's new marketing plan, this way parents won't really know what to sue Hyde for!
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The Phillips Schools and St. Paul's don't have admission teas because the kids and families are waiting in line to attend. Do you think if they drop out of one of those schools they will be refunded their tuition...NO WAY! Many prep schools make their students sign a contract upon entering their school as a Freshman stating that they will attend that school until graduation. If you pull out before, you're responsible for the tuition through their senior year whether you're there or not.
Hyde holds Teas to educate and offer options to students and families who have no where to turn. Tuition is not refunded only in some circumstances, where families pull out for no reason. They've signed a contract that lays all that out. If a student can't cut it or is a distraction to the rest of the school, they'll get their money back on a pro-rated basis. The people on this site bitching about the lack of tuition refund are those who left because they didn't want to do the work. Hyde is a school and a program. It's not a traditional prep school and dosen't claim to be and it's not a therapy school and doesn't claim to be. It's a little of both for kids and families who aren't too "off track".
I guarantee that the "Tri-State" whiney, baby-boomer attitude is behind many of the complaints you read about on fornits. Incluing Ass-Kow's passive aggressive rants and offers.
When I was looking at Phillip Andover, there was no mention of such a contract. Tri-State is NJ NY Conn ?
It bothers you that people are saying bad things about your school. I think I have vented my spleen on the subject pretty much. I was bothered at first about the things I read here about Hyde. I wanted my experience to mean something. I wanted the time that I spent there to mean something. It still does. But it is better to look at the truth. The truth is Hyde is just something that Joe and and a bunch of guys made up. They pulled it out of their collective ass and made it up as they went along. Eye of newt and toe of frog. What ever was lying around the kitchen. They hit on some things that worked by trial and error. Part of what makes it work it the fact that once you get through it you want it to mean something so you say it does. Otherwise it is a reflection on you. You wasted your time. In a way it is like the Ramtha rap: It is because we imagine it to be. There's a Spooky Tooth. The fact that there are elements that are cultic is no accident. It was either by design or trial and error. The notion that if you fail you are "off track" has been the mantra from back in the day. I call it blame the victims. Hyde says "it works" if it does not then it is your fault. Imagine a seat belt that helped you in a car crash only if you believe, if it fails it is your fault. Not a good seat belt. Why do you accept it from Hyde? Why doesn't the community stand up and say "it is not acceptable that Hyde fails these students?" Why do you identify with your keepers rather then your peers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome)
Deal with it. You identify with the power holder not because you have character. It is actually the converse. It is because you are weak. The ones that are strong are the ones that resist.
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Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
I think you're right. Hyde's data and evidence are very thin indeed. They offer lots of anecdotal claims about their successes but few hard numbers. Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:
1. What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2. How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3. What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde? 10th grade? 11th grade? 12th grade? That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4. What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college? How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5. When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample? Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)? Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled? How honest is Hyde about the data they report?
Billy: I notice that you haven't responded to this request for information. Have you shared these questions with Hyde staff? Have you received a response?
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When I was looking at Phillip Andover, there was no mention of such a contract. Tri-State is NJ NY Conn ?
It bothers you that people are saying bad things about your school. I think I have vented my spleen on the subject pretty much. I was bothered at first about the things I read here about Hyde. I wanted my experience to mean something. I wanted the time that I spent there to mean something. It still does. But it is better to look at the truth. The truth is Hyde is just something that Joe and and a bunch of guys made up. They pulled it out of their collective ass and made it up as they went along. Eye of newt and toe of frog. What ever was lying around the kitchen. They hit on some things that worked by trial and error. Part of what makes it work it the fact that once you get through it you want it to mean something so you say it does. Otherwise it is a reflection on you. You wasted your time. In a way it is like the Ramtha rap: It is because we imagine it to be. There's a Spooky Tooth. The fact that there are elements that are cultic is no accident. It was either by design or trial and error. The notion that if you fail you are "off track" has been the mantra from back in the day. I call it blame the victims. Hyde says "it works" if it does not then it is your fault. Imagine a seat belt that helped you in a car crash only if you believe, if it fails it is your fault. Not a good seat belt. Why do you accept it from Hyde? Why doesn't the community stand up and say "it is not acceptable that Hyde fails these students?" Why do you identify with your keepers rather then your peers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome)
Deal with it. You identify with the power holder not because you have character. It is actually the converse. It is because you are weak. The ones that are strong are the ones that resist.
I buy these statements completely. I sang Hyde's praises when I heard it put down --- this despite the fact that I had always had strong reservations about the place. I didn't "fight the good fight" because I was brainwashed; I did it because my ego was on the line. I didn't want to admit that I was from a "bad school," that I made a stupid investment, that I did things that cut against the grain of my conscience.
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When I was looking at Phillip Andover, there was no mention of such a contract. Tri-State is NJ NY Conn ?
It bothers you that people are saying bad things about your school. I think I have vented my spleen on the subject pretty much. I was bothered at first about the things I read here about Hyde. I wanted my experience to mean something. I wanted the time that I spent there to mean something. It still does. But it is better to look at the truth. The truth is Hyde is just something that Joe and and a bunch of guys made up. They pulled it out of their collective ass and made it up as they went along. Eye of newt and toe of frog. What ever was lying around the kitchen. They hit on some things that worked by trial and error. Part of what makes it work it the fact that once you get through it you want it to mean something so you say it does. Otherwise it is a reflection on you. You wasted your time. In a way it is like the Ramtha rap: It is because we imagine it to be. There's a Spooky Tooth. The fact that there are elements that are cultic is no accident. It was either by design or trial and error. The notion that if you fail you are "off track" has been the mantra from back in the day. I call it blame the victims. Hyde says "it works" if it does not then it is your fault. Imagine a seat belt that helped you in a car crash only if you believe, if it fails it is your fault. Not a good seat belt. Why do you accept it from Hyde? Why doesn't the community stand up and say "it is not acceptable that Hyde fails these students?" Why do you identify with your keepers rather then your peers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome)
Deal with it. You identify with the power holder not because you have character. It is actually the converse. It is because you are weak. The ones that are strong are the ones that resist.
I buy these statements completely. I sang Hyde's praises when I heard it put down --- this despite the fact that I had always had strong reservations about the place. I didn't "fight the good fight" because I was brainwashed; I did it because my ego was on the line. I didn't want to admit that I was from a "bad school," that I made a stupid investment, that I did things that cut against the grain of my conscience.
I not sure "bad" is exactly right. Hyde is what it is. It is a coercive, cult like closed community. Is that bad? Some people seem to do well going forward through life ascribing to hydeism. Paul M is successful. You could argue the what he does is "bad' But he seems happy. You could argue what I do with my life is bad.
Even though I resisted Hyde in small ways and to some extent kept my own internal compass, I did internalize. I have come to realize that some of the aspects of my personality that Hyde tried to beat out of me are a core part of what I am as a person. This realization has lead me to a new level in my life for which I am greatful to this board. Like they say the truth will set you free ... free from hyde if that is what you need.
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When I was looking at Phillip Andover, there was no mention of such a contract. Tri-State is NJ NY Conn ?
It bothers you that people are saying bad things about your school. I think I have vented my spleen on the subject pretty much. I was bothered at first about the things I read here about Hyde. I wanted my experience to mean something. I wanted the time that I spent there to mean something. It still does. But it is better to look at the truth. The truth is Hyde is just something that Joe and and a bunch of guys made up. They pulled it out of their collective ass and made it up as they went along. Eye of newt and toe of frog. What ever was lying around the kitchen. They hit on some things that worked by trial and error. Part of what makes it work it the fact that once you get through it you want it to mean something so you say it does. Otherwise it is a reflection on you. You wasted your time. In a way it is like the Ramtha rap: It is because we imagine it to be. There's a Spooky Tooth. The fact that there are elements that are cultic is no accident. It was either by design or trial and error. The notion that if you fail you are "off track" has been the mantra from back in the day. I call it blame the victims. Hyde says "it works" if it does not then it is your fault. Imagine a seat belt that helped you in a car crash only if you believe, if it fails it is your fault. Not a good seat belt. Why do you accept it from Hyde? Why doesn't the community stand up and say "it is not acceptable that Hyde fails these students?" Why do you identify with your keepers rather then your peers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome)
Deal with it. You identify with the power holder not because you have character. It is actually the converse. It is because you are weak. The ones that are strong are the ones that resist.
I buy these statements completely. I sang Hyde's praises when I heard it put down --- this despite the fact that I had always had strong reservations about the place. I didn't "fight the good fight" because I was brainwashed; I did it because my ego was on the line. I didn't want to admit that I was from a "bad school," that I made a stupid investment, that I did things that cut against the grain of my conscience.
I not sure "bad" is exactly right. Hyde is what it is. It is a coercive, cult like closed community. Is that bad? Some people seem to do well going forward through life ascribing to hydeism. Paul M is successful. You could argue the what he does is "bad' But he seems happy. You could argue what I do with my life is bad.
Even though I resisted Hyde in small ways and to some extent kept my own internal compass, I did internalize. I have come to realize that some of the aspects of my personality that Hyde tried to beat out of me are a core part of what I am as a person. This realization has lead me to a new level in my life for which I am greatful to this board. Like they say the truth will set you free ... free from hyde if that is what you need.
"Bad" is exactly right and you know it. You're a smart guy and I know you wouldn't defend racketeering, etc. by standards of money or happiness.
As for identity, that is what is not lost at Hyde.
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Hyde has been in the business of delivering a product "Character Education" for forty years. In all those years their has never never never been any attempt to quantify the result. Establish a metric, a set of metrics and track graduates through their adulthood. There is nothing to substantiate any of their claims except anecdotal evidence in the form of graduate/parent testimonials. These are no more believable then the testimony of shills at a medicine show.
Why has this not been done?
1) they are too stupid or lazy
2) they really _are_ that venal and it is all about the money
Pick one
I think you're right. Hyde's data and evidence are very thin indeed. They offer lots of anecdotal claims about their successes but few hard numbers. Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:
1. What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2. How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3. What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde? 10th grade? 11th grade? 12th grade? That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4. What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college? How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5. When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample? Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)? Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled? How honest is Hyde about the data they report?
Billy: I notice that you haven't responded to this request for information. Have you shared these questions with Hyde staff? Have you received a response?
Billy: It's been quite some time since someone asked you to respond to these questions. I'm curious to know why you haven't responded.
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The truth is Hyde is just something that Joe and and a bunch of guys made up. They pulled it out of their collective ass and made it up as they went along. Eye of newt and toe of frog. What ever was lying around the kitchen.
I totally agree that Joe & Co. made up a lot of things, but I also think that they were influenced by the times, as well as by certain specific experiences that Joe had and influences that he sought out, not to mention certain characteristics of his personality.
I think most everyone has heard Joe refer back to AA, both obliquely as well as direct quotes. AA was a progenitor of sorts for many cults, many of which distorted AA's format to suit their means, perhaps most notoriously the cult Synanon, begun in California in 1958 or 1959.
I also find some influences from the Human Potential Movement, a time which spawned LGATs. As you may recall, Landmark Forum is one of these. The following is a huge piece, which covers many types of cults; I have copied a subsection on LGATs here.
Large-Group Awareness Training
Historical Background
The Human Potential Movement bloomed in the 1950's and 1960's. Sensitivity and encounter groups spread rapidly, promising increased communication, intensified experience, and expanded consciousness. Business, educational, and other groups were sold sensitivity training programs, some conducted by psychologists, but most led by non-professionals who used the processes and techniques developed by psychologists. There soon appeared the commercially packaged large-group awareness trainings (LGATs), which combined a number of the encounter and sensitivity techniques with various sales, influence, indoctrination, and behavior control techniques.
Most existing commercial LGATs grew out of a format developed in the early 1960s by William Penn Patrick, who labeled his venture Leadership Dynamics Institute (LDI). This was the first of what has become a smorgasbord of commercially sold LGATs.
Church and Carnes (1972) describe the original LDI program as an encounter group training session costing $1,000 and in which persons "were held virtual prisoners for four days of living hell during which members of the class were beaten, deprived of food and sleep, jammed into coffins, forced to perform degrading sexual acts, and even crucified" (p. 178). Purportedly, this commercial encounter group would make persons "better leaders and executives." The seminar was supposed to rid people of their "hang-ups," teach total obedience, and motivate participants to persuade other persons to take the training. Patrick, who headed Holiday Magic Cosmetics, Mind Dynamics, LDI, and other pyramid sales organizations, decreed that attending an LDI "seminar" was required for anyone wishing a management position with Holiday Magic. Attendees were kept in the dark about what they would experience at these seminars, as "graduates" were pledged not to reveal their experiences. The venture ended amidst multiple law suits in California courts.
Some changes have occurred in subsequent LGATs, while certain features have remained. In most of the new groups, attendees continue to pledge secrecy and push the product on friends and acquaintances within a pyramid sales structure. The status of "graduates" of the LGATs is generally dependent upon the number of recruits they bring in. Eliciting most criticism, however, is the extensive use of deceptive and indirect, and even coercive, techniques of persuasion and control at all levels of the organization, including the training.
Review of the Literature
There is an extensive array of accounts of these "trainings," most notably about est (Erhard Seminars Training). Hundreds of journalistic reports exist. The following are but a sample of articles or books on est: Bartley, 1978; Benziger, 1976; Brewer, 1975; Bry, 1976; Fenwick, 1976; Frederick, 1974; Greene, 1976; Hargrove, 19xx; Hoyt, 1985; Leonard, 1972; Rhinehart, 1976; Tipton, 1982. Descriptions of Lifespring, another well-known LGAT, are found in Haaken and Adams (1983) and Cushman (1986), while Actualizations is described by Martin (1977).
The term training is misleading if the consumer thinks the title refers to skill-building groups (Rudestam, 1932). The LGATs are not skill training events, but instead resemble intense indoctrination programs. In the LGATs an authoritarian leader, now minus the Marine Corps swagger stick of LDI days, persuades the consumers who purchase attendance to believe that their lives are not working, that they have caused every dire event that has happened to them, and that salvation is based upon accepting the belief system being offered, learning to talk in the jargon of the trainer, and remaining connected with the organization by becoming unpaid volunteer helpers recruiting other customers for the organization. The formats, stripped of individual jargon characterizing each particular commercial group, remain essentially as outlined above (Baer & Stolz, 1978; Cinamon & Farson, 1979; Fenwick, 1977; Gross, 1978; Tipton, 1982; Zilbergeld, 1983).
Finkelstein, Wenegrat, and Yalom (1982) consider Lifespring, Actualizations, and est as examples of "intensive large-group awareness trainings." They describe these groups as being characterized by "the commercial, non-professional use of potentially powerful tools for personal growth," which "often evoke powerful emotions" (p. xx). These authors discuss the "trainer's extraordinary demeanor...(his/her) air of absolute authority ... no affect, even when he excoriates the trainees ... repeatedly referring to them as 'assholes'...devalues their accomplishments with the repeated assertion that their lives 'do not work'" (p.xx).
Finkelstein et al. (1982) report on est's "Truth Process," an event occurring on the second day of the training. During this exercise trainees lie on the floor, eyes closed, meditating on an individual problem they have selected.
At the trainer's command, the trainees imagine a situation in which that problem has occurred and systematically explore the detailed bodily sensations and images associated with the problem itself. As the trainer orders the trainees to examine images from the past and from childhood, powerful affects are released. The room is soon filled with the sound of sobbing, retching, and uncontrolled laughter, punctuated by the exclamations of those remonstrating with figures from their past... Later in the second day, during the so-called "Danger Process," trainees come to the dais in groups of 25 and stand facing the audience. The trainer exhorts those on the dais to "be" themselves, and reprimands those who appear to be posturing or falsely smiling, or who fail to make eye contact with the seated trainees. It is not uncommon, apparently, for trainees to faint or cry when called to the dais in this fashion, and some later recount that they found the experience liberated them from social anxieties. (p. xx)
At a mid-week meeting following the first weekend, "trainees report on their experiences since the weekend, often to tell of dramatic improvements...and occasionally to complain of deterioration in their mood" (Finkelstein et al., 1982, p. 515-521).
Finkelstein et al. (1982) also note that nearly 450,000 persons in the United States have undergone one of the several commercial large-group awareness trainings. Yet the literature on these groups resembles that of the early encounter and human potential groups:
...a few objective outcome studies which exist side by side with highly positive testimonials and anecdotal reports of psychological harm. Reports of testimonials have been compiled by est advocates and suffer from inadequate methodology. More objective and rigorous research reports fail to demonstrate that the positive testimony and evidence of psychological change among est graduates result from specific attributes of est training. Instead, non-specific effects of expectancy and response sets may account for positive outcomes. Reports of psychological harm as the result of est training remain anecdotal, but borderline or psychotic patients would be well advised not to participate. (Finkelstein et al., 1982, p. 538)
The reports of psychological harm resulting from LGATs appear in Fenwick (1976), Glass, Kirsch, and Parris (1977), Kirsch and Glass (1977), Simon (1977, 1978), Higgitt and Murray (1983), and Haaken and Adams (1983). While Fenwick, a psychologist, was a participant observer at an est training, Haaken and Adams, a psychologist and a sociologist respectively, were participant observers at a Lifespring training.
Fenwick called attention to the est training selections-admission forms, in which persons were asked if they had been in therapy, and if in therapy (now or recently), were they "winning." She voiced the opinion that some persons might, intentionally or because of incapacity, misrepresent their psychiatric status on such a form, or might feel "their medical or psychiatric history is not appropriately revealed to a private business offering them an 'educational' service" (p. xx). She concluded:
Trainers in est do not and cannot take the precautions that would be considered appropriate for psychotherapy. They use techniques such as confrontation, which undermines psychological defenses and strips away resistances. They use some techniques whose effect is to increase anxiety and other techniques which encourage regression to developmentally more primitive modes of functioning. There are only two logical possibilities as to the implications of such activities: (1) Based on currently accepted standards of psychotherapeutic practice, est uses techniques indiscriminately which in a certain proportion of the population are known to be harmful and potentially quite dangerous, or (2) based on the use of such techniques in est, if research were to indicate that no harm occurs, some of the most basic tenets of psychotherapy are lacking any basis in evidence. (p. 171-172)
Fenwick further noted that the Lieberman and Yalom studies (19xx) of encounter groups indicated that "the people who experienced negative results in combination with the psychological casualties constituted about 19% ... or for close to one out of five people who participated in these group experiences, the results were harmful" (p. 166).
Haaken and Adams (1983) analyzed Lifespring from a psychoanalytic perspective:
Basing our conclusions on a participant-observation study, we argue that the impact of the training was essentially pathological. First, in the early period of the training, ego functions were systematically undermined and regression was promoted. Second, the ideational or interpretive framework of the training was based upon regressive modes of reasoning. Third, the structure and content of the training tended to stimulate early narcissistic conflicts and defenses, which accounted for the elation and sense of heightened well-being achieved by many participants. (p. 270)
Cushman (1986) termed a number of groups, such as est, Lifespring, Psi World, Transformations, and Summit Workshops, "mass marathon psychology organizations." As had the many writers who described the est trainings, he noted the highly coercive and authoritarian methods of control used in these groups. He called them restrictive groups, because they depended upon strict milieu control, public rewards and punishments, and the pressuring of participants to enroll others and immerse themselves in the organizations as volunteers and companions of other graduates.
Despite the LGATs promoting themselves as educational experiences, the majority of the professionally trained writers (psychologists and psychiatrists) who have published comments on the groups consider them to be psychological in nature (Cushman, 1986; Hoyt, 1985; Fenwick, 1976; Glass, Kirsch, & Paris, 1977; Haaken & Adams, 1983; Higgitt & Murray, 1983; Kirsch & Glass, 1977; Paul & Paul, 1978; Simon, 1977, 1978). Glass et al. (1977) concluded that although est presents its programs as educational, they are in fact "quasi-therapeutic group experiences" (p. xx). Simon (1978) stated that "est has some powerful psychological effects on many of those who take the training... It is apparent from the progressive and regressive responses to est that some powerful change agent is at work here. It may be that... Werner Erhard has discovered an unconventional route to approach these psychotherapeutic goals" (p. 686, 691).
Conclusions
The preceding literature review suggests that most of the nationally known LGATs and a burgeoning, but as yet undetermined number, of take-offs on them are using powerful psychological techniques capable of stripping individuals of their psychological defenses, inducing behavioral regression, and promoting regressive modes of reasoning. Further, it appears that deceptive sales techniques are involved in promoting the trainings since the secrecy surrounding the programs' sales promotions prevents consumers from obtaining full disclosure. Consumers are persuaded to purchase programs described as educational, while in actuality the programs consist of highly orchestrated, intense indoctrination processes capable of inducing marked psychological experience. Consumers are not fully and adequately informed about the programs' intensity, the new philosophical formulations of reality that they imply, the potentially harmful consequences of some of the exercises to which participants will be exposed, the sometimes lurid psychological upset they will witness, nor the fact that management is aware of at least some of the risks to which they subject participants. Such practices run counter to American Psychological Association recommendations on the running of growth groups (American Psychological Association, 1973).
From: Report of the APA Task Force on Deceptive and Indirect Techniques of Persuasion and Control; November 1986
Margaret Thaler Singer, University of California Berkeley; Harold Goldstein, National Institute of Mental Health; Michael D. Langone, American Family Foundation; Jesse S. Miller, San Francisco, California; Maurice K. Temerlin, Clinical Psychology Consultants, Inc.; Louis J. West, University of California Los Angeles
http://www.rickross.com/reference/apolo ... ist23.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/apologist/apologist23.html)
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.....believe that their lives are not working, that they have caused every dire event that has happened to them, and that salvation is based upon accepting the belief system being offered, learning to talk in the jargon of the trainer, and remaining connected with the organization by becoming unpaid volunteer helpers recruiting other customers for the organization.
That reminds me of something.
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Most existing commercial LGATs grew out of a format developed in the early 1960s by William Penn Patrick, who labeled his venture Leadership Dynamics Institute (LDI). This was the first of what has become a smorgasbord of commercially sold LGATs.
There was a pamphlet put out by William Penn Patrick, long out of print, that detailed five principles... I can not find my original source at the moment, but this one references it as well:
Leadership Dynamics Institute was formed on the principles outlined in a booklet entitled "Happiness and Success Through Principle" written in 1967 by William Penn Patrick, the founder and corporate king of Holiday Magic, Inc., and apparent co-owner of LDI. The foremost principle set forth by Patrick is honesty, complete and total honesty, both towards yourself and others. Another attribute stressed is courage, courage to stand up and fight for what you believe.
Click Here (http://http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.landmark/msg/c55e8423fa952a53?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&scoring=relevance&as_drrb=between&as_qdr=&as_mind=1&as_minm=8&as_miny=1998&as_maxd=30&as_maxm=9&as_maxy=1998&ic=1)
LDI eventually went out of business in the early 1970's, partly due to all the lawsuits against Holiday Magic, not to mention Patrick's death in a plane crash. I've read rumors that LDI has resurfaced, but have not found further references.