Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 26, 2006, 05:08:22 PM
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TeenScreen - Normal Kids Labeled Mentally Ill
Despite years of public outcry, based on recommendations by President Bush's New Freedom Commission to screen all school children for mental illness, TeenScreen is now being administered in the nation's public school system and children are being regularly diagnosed with one, or more, disorders chosen from the close to 400 listed in the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV" (DSM), also known as the psychiatric "Billing Bible."
The list of mental disorders to chose from when diagnosing children mentally ill with TeenScreen, are "voted" into the Billing Bible by members of the American Psychiatric Association, and include, among others, conduct disorder, avoidant personality disorder, mathematics disorder, reading disorder, disorder of written expression, general anxiety disorder, nightmare disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, and factious disorder.
A mental illness that drew a lot of ridicule recently, is called the "intermittent explosive disorder," for people who fly into occasional but unwarranted fits of rage.
. . . and guess who's behind it--pharmaceuticals!
The TeenScreen survey is billed as a suicide prevention tool, but according to former government investigator, Allen Jones, "Teen Screen is a nefarious effort to recruit our children into the quagmire of biological psychiatry."
"The program employs dubious screening tools administered by non-professionals," he states. "It is based on misleading science and diagnostic criteria that would be downright laughable if the stakes were not so high," he adds.
"While the idea of screening kids for mental problems seems like a good idea, it ends up being nothing more than a Drugging Dragnet," says Jim Gottstein, an attorney who represents clients harmed by the psychiatric industrial complex.
"The high rate at which we are drugging America's children with psychotropics," he says, "is a national disgrace."
"This is junk science at it's worst," says Dr Jan Johnson, MD, "follow the money, the trail leads right back to the drug companies."
Rest of the article:
http://www.newstarget.com/020092.html (http://www.newstarget.com/020092.html)
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Hi Toni,
Indepth disscussion and numerous articles on this topic can be found here:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... ght=screen (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=10271&highlight=screen)
If you don't know the history of Teen Screen there is documentation of it's origins in Tx, using foster kids as guenia pigs while developing TMAP at the hefty expense of taxpayers. They were perfecting this Algorithm model which is being sold to other states.
BTW, welcome. Thanks for your contributions.
And why, are you "stuck" in Utah?
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How come Bitching Disorder (BD) is not in the DSM. I know lotsa people with that one. Dunno if there's a pill for it tho.
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How come Bitching Disorder (BD) is not in the DSM. I know lotsa people with that one. Dunno if there's a pill for it tho.
Midol.
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How come Bitching Disorder (BD) is not in the DSM. I know lotsa people with that one. Dunno if there's a pill for it tho.
The solution literally grows on trees, cannabis.
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Sounds like one of my favorite songs by the Stranglers...
"I'm bitchy,
I'm tellin' you the Gospel truth,
I'm bitchy,
Now why don't you all go get screwed,"
Props to JJ Burnell.
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Rather than being alarmist and hysterical, it might help if you found out more about what you were talking about before you went ballistic.
Several of the things you listed aren't mental illness, they're learning disabilities.
It's important that we have labels for learning disabilities. It helps tremendously towards ensuring that the kids that meet the criteria for those labels get what they need to learn, just like the more typical kids are getting what they need to learn.
Learning disabilities go in the diagnostic manual, but they are not mental illnesses.
ADD/ADHD is the only learning disability I know of that gets treated with medication.
The other learning disability categories are just ways for highly trained specialists to identify and communicate what's wrong so that educators aren't just groping around in the dark trying to figure out how to help a particular kid learn.
Julie
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Teen Screen is such bullshit. Fucking everyone is 'diagnosed' with something or other nowadays. Hasn't this shit gone far enough? I had a really good friend a few years back. She was absolutely convinced that she had ADD or ADHD, went to a doc, got a dx and her script for Adderall. Then her kids come along, two boys. Healthy, rowdy boys. It wasn't long before they were both 'diagnosed' with ADHD and promptly put on Adderall themselves. She would always tell me how hard they were to control and deal with. School had problems with them and wholeheartedly agreed with doping them up. I could never figure it out. I babysat a lot.....i mean a lot. I never had any problem dealing with those boys.....before or after the meds. They knew how far they could and could not push me. The first few times sitting for them was rough, but once they knew the limits things settled down just fine.
I'm not saying there's never, ever any reason to medicate a kid, but I think it's an extremely small number that it's actually appropriate for. Certainly not anywhere near even approaching the numbers that PharmaCo and the psychiatrists would have you believe. Not by a long shot.
Oh, and that former friend really used to piss me off too. She'd rag on me about drinking or smoking a joint but she was just too tired to make it thru the day without her fucking Adderall and that was A-OK. Fucking hypocrite.
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Thanks for the info, Deborah. Perhaps the above is a little more appropriate. I was feeling stuck for awhile, but a bit freer lately. I'm working on the frustration right now! Lost my password for login here, so I'm using "guest" which is kind of nice, I can change it as I want!
Utah's a strange place to live. After 6 years, I still don't fit in here, and from how I see it, hopefully, never will.
Mormons hang together, no matter what. Laws, morals, right/wrong, doesn't matter to them . . . they do it their way and if you (or someone you know) is on the Church's hierarchy, you can't do no wrong.
They control everything through the Church, it controls the people and the people are all one big inter-related family. That's why it's really disturbing to see so many of these teen institutions going up here.
The Sheriff's related, the Child Protective Service people are related, the State Licensing people are related, the Attorney General, Governor and every elected official is related. And, these guys are all related to the people who work at the teen facilities.
The Feds have taken control of Utah through land thefts (Utah is over 65% Fed owned, my county is 90% Fed/St) and the historical economies have been shut down.
These teen facilities are replacing the old economy. They call it the NEW ECONOMY, which is part of the NEW WEST, which is part of the NEW WORLD ORDER (as is every other place on Earth, different action plans for different regions, but we're all coming together under "one" umbrella).
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Toni, Eeeewwwwwwww! Why are you living in Utah?! I mean, if you're not some religious nut or some avid skiier or something...
I have wondered what life is like for those living in Utah. It seems like all they do is go to church activities, eat at chain restaurants, go to their job at the reform school, then eat some more. They all get married so young and seem to have no ambition, and they don't seem to travel much. What a bunch of losers.
I'm curious, not being sarcastic or fecisious, what exactly do young people do out there in "fly-over land"?
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Toni, Eeeewwwwwwww! Why are you living in Utah?! I mean, if you're not some religious nut or some avid skiier or something...
I have wondered what life is like for those living in Utah. It seems like all they do is go to church activities, eat at chain restaurants, go to their job at the reform school, then eat some more. They all get married so young and seem to have no ambition, and they don't seem to travel much. What a bunch of losers.
I'm curious, not being sarcastic or fecisious, what exactly do young people do out there in "fly-over land"?
A chick I know who went to Utah a while back said they freak out over shorts that end above the knee.
I should go there and give a seminar (apparently everyone there loves them) about sexual fetishes or something. If I put a wind turbine into the doors to the auditorium when everyone gasps and freaks out I could probably power the whole nation for a week.
On the flipside, oppression can breed some VERY interstesting people with interesting tastes and way of expressing themselves once they find freedom to be sexual. :lol:
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I spent 2 nights in Utah once. Before i knew it was the capital of adolescent gulags. It was kinda nice. The people were really friendly. Unlike mormons everywhere else they were not out to convert anyone because hey were the majority. Afer a while it felt like i was surrounded by Ned and Maude flanders wherever i went but it was overall a good experience. i would love to spend some time there. It is just the thing if you are the outdoors type.
PS I am NOT just being a smart are. I really liked it.
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According to the "experts" ADD/HD is not a Learning Disability.
ADHD is not considered to be a learning disability. It can be determined to be a disability under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), making a student eligible to receive special education services. However, ADHD falls under the category ?Other Health Impaired? and not under ?Specific Learning Disabilities.? - Learning Disabilities Assoc of America
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, ADHD, is one of the most common mental disorders that develop in children. - NIMH
ADHD is not a Learning Disability
A Learning Disability is a general term that refers to a heterogeneous group of disorders manifested by significant difficulties in the acquisition and the use of listening, spelling, reading, writing, reasoning, or mathematical ability. These disorders are intrinsic to the individual, presumed to be due to central nervous system dysfunction and may occur across the life span. - National Joint Committee on Learning Disabilities
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Fine. I was speaking of the specific utility of these labels in getting kids the special services they need in school so that they can learn.
Yes, ADHD is classified as OHI, but it also, in a school setting, can be treated as a learning disability.
If a child is classified OHI or EBD, without an LD, then he only gets a 504 plan, it limits some of the options, and the school gets no extra money to pay for any of it.
If a child is classified as having a learning disability, then he gets an IEP, which opens up some more options, and the school gets extra money from the government to pay for the services.
This is the rough, 5 second explanation since the nitty gritty of child educational advocacy can get into mind-numbing detail and complexity.
The long list in the alarmist post above, including "Disorder of Written Expression," etc., contains a bunch of labels that are learning disabilities--labels meant to help school staff and parents do a better job getting that child what he needs to learn.
The learning disabilities on that list are not mental illnesses, and they do not---that I've ever heard of---put a kid on any kind of meds for dyslexia, disorder of written expression, disorder of mathematics, and so forth.
It's mindless hysteria to say that a school that says a kid is dyslexic, or similar, is classifying a "normal" kid as "mentally ill."
Julie
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disorder of written expression, disorder of mathematics, and so forth.
Omg. Disorder of mathematics???
It's mindless hysteria to say that a school that says a kid is dyslexic, or similar, is classifying a "normal" kid as "mentally ill."
Julie
I think it's mindless hysteria to diagnose all these kids with any one or more of these "disorders". IMO, most of them are crap, catch-all phrases for normal kids who aren't behaving as desired.
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According to the "experts" ADD/HD is not a Learning Disability.
And indeed it's not. I have a son who has always been very energetic and very curious. His teachers kept asking us to get him tested for ADD/ADHD, since kindergarten. He was tested several times over the years, but one of the key diagnostic indicators was always school performance. So a kid who always got straight A's just didn't quite fit the ADD/ADHD profile.
After years of this b.s., and years of me believing it was a made-up disorder (a decade ago it was ONLY diagnosed in the U.S. and in no other country), my son visited a therapist who thought maybe he could benefit from some meds. My son was willing to try and immediately felt better, more able to relax, not pace around the house, etc.
I have heard that ADD/ADHD kids tend to be above average intelligence, but I don't know if there's research that backs that up.
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My son was willing to try and immediately felt better, more able to relax, not pace around the house, etc.
Why not try teaching him some coping skills instead of drugging him?
I have heard that ADD/ADHD kids tend to be above average intelligence, but I don't know if there's research that backs that up.
I've heard that too. Mostly from parents of so called ADD/HD kids.
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http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_10/sr10_227.pdf (http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_10/sr10_227.pdf)
Learning Disability and Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (Table 3)
a.. + Almost 5 million children 3-17 years of age (8%) had a learning disability; 10% of boys had a learning disability compared with 6% of girls.
b.. + Four and one-half million children 3-17 years of age (7%) had Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Boys were more than twice as likely as girls to have ADHD (10% and 4%).
c.. + In families with an income of less than $20,000, the percentage of children with a learning disability was more than that of children in families with an income of $75,000 or more (12% and 8%).
d.. + When compared with children with an excellent or very good health status, children with a fair or poor health status were five times as likely to have a learning disability (30% and 6%) and more than twice as likely to have ADHD (16% and 7%).
A child with genuine learning difficulties should not have to be dx'd and drugged in order to get accomodations. Unfortunately, this is too often the case. It appears to be the first line of "treatment" rather than a last resort when all other factors have been exhausted.
The stakes are too high when you're dealing with a drug similar to cocaine, with all the negative side effects.
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Why not try teaching him some coping skills instead of drugging him?
Oh sure, like learning coping skills is such a piece of cake. Hey, I'd like to learn some of those skils too. Where do I sign up? Like I said, I fought this ADD b.s. for many years, thinking it was a bogus disorder. HE wanted to try meds, HE is the one who says they are helping him. I still think it might be a bogus disorder, or if it's genuine, it is grossly overdiagnosed. But I'm not going to argue with what works for him. It's his choice.
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According to the "experts" ADD/HD is not a Learning Disability.
And indeed it's not. I have a son who has always been very energetic and very curious. His teachers kept asking us to get him tested for ADD/ADHD, since kindergarten. He was tested several times over the years, but one of the key diagnostic indicators was always school performance. So a kid who always got straight A's just didn't quite fit the ADD/ADHD profile.
After years of this b.s., and years of me believing it was a made-up disorder (a decade ago it was ONLY diagnosed in the U.S. and in no other country), my son visited a therapist who thought maybe he could benefit from some meds. My son was willing to try and immediately felt better, more able to relax, not pace around the house, etc.
I have heard that ADD/ADHD kids tend to be above average intelligence, but I don't know if there's research that backs that up.
I think ADD is just a way of saying theyre less capable of feigning interest and are more susceptable to boredom than most kids.
Why do I say that? Im (quite literaly) a Genius and public school bored the ever loving hell out of me. I was so far above everyone else, including the teachers, I really learned more slacking off in a library reading random shit, or getting on the internet.
This sucked becuase when I go to college and they actually teach you shit I had to re-adjust to it, but I like it a lot more. Mostly because Im actually able to hold a conversation/debate (not a pissing contest or RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH schtick) with the teacher/professor and the students who actually comprehend the material, whatever it may be. And I dont have dumbfucks iwth inferiority complexes telling me Im too smart, because they dont go to college! :D
I think for ADD kids the best thing to do is give them a college-type environment, intead of the current "school" environment, which is more of a holding pen where children and adolescents set up their own social hierarchy and... well, get all that social bullshit in the way of the education. I could not STAND highschool and the thought of going back to one now (now that Im 21, and Im not conditioned to put up with the shit I had to as a teenager) would piss me off more than bush being elected for a third term.
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disorder of written expression, disorder of mathematics, and so forth.
Omg. Disorder of mathematics???
It's mindless hysteria to say that a school that says a kid is dyslexic, or similar, is classifying a "normal" kid as "mentally ill."
Julie
I think it's mindless hysteria to diagnose all these kids with any one or more of these "disorders". IMO, most of them are crap, catch-all phrases for normal kids who aren't behaving as desired.
These learning disability labels aren't about kids' behavior.
Kids with learning disabilities process information differently from "normal" kids. Kids with different learning disabilities process information differently from each other. Kids with the same learning disability process information in similar ways.
When a specialist identifies a label for these kids and gives a whole profile of in-depth test results, the special ed teachers and the classroom teacher then have some idea of which ways information has to be presented differently for this kid for the kid to learn.
If you don't have the formal labels, the teachers and other classmates still label the LD kid. They label him lazy and dumb.
When you have a formal label, there are all kinds of specialized curricula that have been designed to help students that have that particular label learn---usually learning at the same rate as their peers, now that their needs are being met.
Sure, they're not caught up immediately in the area where they have an LD. But there are specialized curricula for each LD, and within that, there are specialized strategies for whichever quirks each child has about how he learns.
LD labels aren't about modifying a kid's behavior.
LD labels are about getting each child what he needs so he can learn and not feel lazy, stupid, and worthless.
Children and parents frequently welcome these labels because it means the teacher quits thinking the kid is lazy and stupid, and the kid starts getting kinds of help that, amazingly, start him learning and making progress again.
My Katie has a disorder of written expression. A lot of kids with pediatric bipolar also have a learning disability.
What the label meant was instead of being thought a lazy kid, instead of having to put up with the other children teasing her for being a slowpoke and calling her stupid, they got her a special ed teacher who did a pull-out class for handwriting.
In the pull-out class, they used a specialized curriculum that taught in ways that worked for Katie. Her handwriting went from completely illegible, even to her, to legible, with identifiable capitals and small letters, used appropriately, that uses the lines on the paper appropriately.
Her math improved tremendously because she started being able to keep track of what numbers were in what columns, so she could keep track of what step she was doing and get the right answers.
She got special pencil grips that helped her control her pencil better.
The teacher got more patient about her homework. She still had to do it, but she got more time to get it turned in.
The teacher got on top of other kids teasing her and nipped it in the bud whenever it started to come up. The teacher handling it properly made it almost completely stop---and what didn't stop, Katie can cope with, now that it's not overwhelming. There's also less to trigger it, now that she's catching up.
The teacher quit blaming her spelling on lack of study or lack of effort and started writing tips on her papers to help her learn the spelling words. Consequently, her spelling started improving where before it had seemed hopeless.
Getting the label was a godsend for Katie, because once the teachers knew what was wrong, they quit jumping to conclusions about her motivation and the specific label told them how to help her, specifically, learn.
LD kids process information in different ways, because some pathways other kids use to learn don't work correctly.
LD kids can still learn, teachers just have to use different learning pathways and different techniques to get the information into their little heads.
LD kids usually desperately want to learn and are incredibly frustrated that they can't "get it" like the other kids.
The specific LD label lets special ed and classroom teachers know what learning pathways don't work correctly for that kid, and what package of techniques to use to get around the block for that individual kid.
Kids with a particular label aren't cookie cutouts, of course. But a particular label narrows down the pack of specialized techniques and strategies to try with that kid and helps the teachers find a way to reach that kid faster.
Katie, we parents, her teachers, and her school are grateful for that label because she's learning again and it's like a light turned on in a dark room.
You don't see websites with huge numbers of LD labeled kids screaming about how they were traumatized for life by getting specialized curricula and extra help with the areas that were kicking their butts in school.
These kids aren't coming out of being labeled with PTSD and permanent scars, they're coming out of school with an education.
Given that, maybe you should reserve your uninformed opinion and learn something before expounding your anti-wisdom on the subject.
It's people like you who, by denying the reality of these kids' learning differences, perpetuate the myth that the kids are just lazy and stupid and either won't or can't learn.
Julie
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I understand why you feel so strongly about this, but it's all a matter of opinion I guess. I just don't buy it and stand by my catch-all statement.
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I understand why you feel so strongly about this, but it's all a matter of opinion I guess. I just don't buy it and stand by my catch-all statement.
That's a more civil response than mine. You make me ashamed of myself for being so harsh.
Think of your average schoolteacher. They see all kinds of kids and have their prejudices and preconceptions just like anybody else. They also are accustomed to dealing with mindless red tape or they wouldn't ever have been able to sit through all those terminally boring and mostly useless education classes in college.
If you stick a label on a kid's learning differences, and hand the teacher a manual on how to teach to those differences; if you give specialist status to teachers that learn extra proficiency in recognizing and teaching to learning differences, you get those kids learning differences accommodated in ways you never would if you didn't have a label for it and laws specifying the kids with a label get their differences accommodated.
The end result is more kids succeeding in school--kids who would have just given up in frustration.
The LD labels aren't mental illnesses, they're ways of ensuring that kids who weren't getting what they needed so they could learn, do get the extra help that makes all the difference in the world.
I used to expect the kids who got special ed services to be badly stigmatized--the way they were when I was growing up.
My daughter's school works very hard to avoid that. Successfully.
Nothing is 100% satisfactory, but Katie's learning a lot faster with the label and accommodations than she was without them, she's a lot less frustrated, and the special ed. teachers are really nice to her so she looks forward to working with them.
If it's imaginary bullshit, it's imaginary bullshit that sure works--with a happy, mainstreamed kid rather than a scared, isolated, overcompliant, or traumatized one.
Julie
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I think for ADD kids the best thing to do is give them a college-type environment, intead of the current "school" environment, which is more of a holding pen where children and adolescents set up their own social hierarchy and... well, get all that social bullshit in the way of the education. I could not STAND highschool and the thought of going back to one now (now that Im 21, and Im not conditioned to put up with the shit I had to as a teenager) would piss me off more than bush being elected for a third term.
I totally agree, but how do you give a college-type environment to a kid who is not yet that age? Skipping ahead and starting college very young is socially awkward and not something I'd want for my kid.
My son (the one who takes ADD meds because HE says they help him) also hates high school, is totally bored there, doesn't have to work very hard at it and also hates the social b.s. you mentioned. He refers to the place as "daycare," and I think that's a pretty accurate name for it.
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I think for ADD kids the best thing to do is give them a college-type environment, intead of the current "school" environment, which is more of a holding pen where children and adolescents set up their own social hierarchy and... well, get all that social bullshit in the way of the education. I could not STAND highschool and the thought of going back to one now (now that Im 21, and Im not conditioned to put up with the shit I had to as a teenager) would piss me off more than bush being elected for a third term.
I totally agree, but how do you give a college-type environment to a kid who is not yet that age? Skipping ahead and starting college very young is socially awkward and not something I'd want for my kid.
My son (the one who takes ADD meds because HE says they help him) also hates high school, is totally bored there, doesn't have to work very hard at it and also hates the social b.s. you mentioned. He refers to the place as "daycare," and I think that's a pretty accurate name for it.
Youre not socially akward in public school?? :rofl:
College age people would deal with a kid or a teen a lot better than a highschool would. I wouldnt go back to one without a tazer or a fire extinguisher sized bottle of mace, I HATE the way the little shits act, and quite a few of the teachers too for that matter.
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I suppose they would have slapped me with the ADD label, had it existed when I was in school. They use to say I was "staring off into space", and assumed that I had a problem paying attention. But no one could understand why I was acing every test that I took.
The truth is, I was bored to tears. And aside from the fact that I had a real problem sleeping at night, public school really did nothing to foster individuality. College is a little better at that, but there's still the idea of group thinking, that everyone learns in the same way, at the same pace.
By the time I finally broke free from the programs, I was living on my own at age 16, working a night job, bussing tables, but really making pretty good money. But, then that was when all the trauma of the previous few years hit me, and it took about 10 years for me to come to terms with all that.
Anyway, after taking a stab at college, I finally found out that organized education just wasn't for me, and I don't think it's for everyone. But, nowadays (last time I checked) a minor can't even drop out of school in the state of Florida without losing their driver's license. So, you have to conform, or else you're not only labeled as antisocial, but you are actually outcast, by losing your independence and means of making a living.
What the hell ever happened to individuality? Some of the most successful people in history are the ones that broke free from the masses, and made their own way.
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I think American schools have been changed to "dumb down" and to program "stay in line and don't question the status quo". Haven't you guys ever seen that 8th grade test from the early 1900's? I doubt that many high school seniors, or many of us, today could pass it.
From one of my articles, "One Alternative Is the Constitution Party":
On the DVD, Pratt says, ?Liberty and literacy go hand in hand. You can?t have a free people that are ignorant. You?ve got to be able to read. Our forebears ([forefathers and foremothers] kept reinforcing literacy. . . Religion, morality and knowledge was the anchor of the American culture from 1620 to 1936. Something happened after that.?
Pratt reveals, ?It wasn?t until the demise of the McGuffy Readers in 1936 that religion and morality were abandoned in our schools to be replaced by a content of trivia and amusement. The McGuffy was way beyond anything in grade school today. It taught it all ? religion, morality and knowledge.?
Pratt lists Benjamin Franklin?s five fundamentals of all sound religions, which he explains are contained within most Christian and non-Christian religions today:
1. There exists a creator who made all things, and mankind should recognize and worship him.
2. The Creator has revealed a moral code of behavior for happy living which distinguishes right from wrong.
3. The Creator holds mankind responsible for the way they treat each other.
4. All mankind live beyond this life.
5. In the next life individuals are judged for their conduct in this one.
Full article:
http://www.sierratimes.com/05/08/04/63_ ... _76405.htm (http://www.sierratimes.com/05/08/04/63_226_125_231_76405.htm)
The moral of the story is that we've all been set up: parents, kids, teachers, enviros, land users, this side and that one. Keep everyone divided, at odds and really busy while they steal the Constitution, Bill of Rights, our land, our kids, our weather and our minds.
They have to come up with a diagnosis so the docs can prescribe the pharmaceuticals. Control of the mass population comes through their "legal" drugs. How many people do you know who have NOT been prescribed massive quantities of drugs lately for never-before-heard-of medical conditions (Do you have restless leg syndrome?)?
Only one generation ago, my grandmother never, ever went to a doctor through 84 years (into 1970's) and 9 children. At 84, she fell and broke a hip and was put in the hospital. Once they got her on the drugs, she went into a coma and never came back. This is how far they've come. My grandfather, likewise no docs/drugs, died a few months later of a broken heart, he was 87.
To be successful, it has been necessary for TPTB to shut down our spiritual body because it is our greatest and strongest weapon (heck, it's really the only one left these days) to fend them off. Not only have our spiritual bodies been neglected, but the formal Churches have shut them down entirely and led everyone astray.
You don't need no stinking Church to be spiritual and "in touch". We're all in touch every second, just grab on and jump out of "their" matrix.
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On the Mormon thing and them being nice, that's true, and they are, in the beginning. They don't necessarily push their religion on us, the newcomers here, but if they try and you turn them down, then you're on the outside, forever, looking in because they stick together first and foremost, no matter what. They do a great job of shunning as well.
I've met a few really GREAT people in these parts (but that happens everywhere, doesn't it?).
As far as shorts above the knees, that's not necessarily true, but sexual abuse, particularly child sexual abuse, abounds here. The ladies I've worked with have filled me in on how it is. As a grown woman, I can also feel the ramifications of the male-control-dominance society (whatever they say goes and the little woman has her place).
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From a Salt Lake Tribune article on 6/22/04, headline "Mormon portion of Utah population steadily shrinking":
"According to the 2004 count, Utah is now 62.4 percent LDS with every county showing a decrease."
They estimate that Mormons will be the minority in Utah by 2030.
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Sorry for the duplicate posts . . . I have a sticky mouse and sometimes the necessary heavy hand deals a double whammy!
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I think American schools have been changed to "dumb down" and to program "stay in line and don't question the status quo".
"Program", is right. If you don't think like the masses, and you don't act like them, you are defective, and need help, right?
And the whole idea that it's not possible to learn without being spoonfed... that's a huge load of horse shit.
If it's imaginary bullshit, it's imaginary bullshit that sure works--with a happy, mainstreamed kid rather than a scared, isolated, overcompliant, or traumatized one.
Julie, I can't really speculate on Katie's specific situation, but the keyword that stands out here, for me anyway, is "mainstreamed". The idea that a kid would have to be traumatized by not being like everyone else is more than a little disturbing. Apparently, Einstien, Edison, Beethoven, Louis Pasteur, Woodrow Wilson, Winston Churchill -- and the list goes on -- all had learning "disabilities". One of the things that people miss, is that "genius" is really the ability to see things in a different way than most people. Perhaps, the learning pathways that most people have are just not quite as effective.
I've also noticed that a lot of people expect the schools to teach their kids all the fundemental skills. The parents do little or nothing, and wonder why their kid isn't learning anything.
My son (the one who takes ADD meds because HE says they help him) also hates high school, is totally bored there, doesn't have to work very hard at it and also hates the social b.s. you mentioned. He refers to the place as "daycare," and I think that's a pretty accurate name for it.
So, he has to take drugs, so he can tolerate being in "daycare", and that's socially acceptable. WTF is going on?
When I was in 2nd grade, my dad made an appointment to take me to a shrink. This was all about not doing well in school, not paying attention, being disruptive, etc. We sat in the waiting room while I practiced my handwriting. I remember showing my dad what I had done. He looked at how good it was, smiled, and said "let's get the hell out of here". He probably saved my ass.
This whole subject just irritates the hell out of me. And the trouble I had in school was what started the whole chain of events that landed me in Bethel, and then LIFE, and that really robbed me of a huge chunk of my life, all because I just wanted to be free. Putting so much pressure on kids to conform, and laying a huge guilt trip on them if they don't, or even telling them they have a disorder, or a disability. I'm sorry, but I just can't see why school is important enough to crush a person's spirit if they aren't cut out for it.
I'd be willing to bet that if the parents would actually take the time to help the kids learn the basics, and help them find a real world interest, the rest would take care of itself. My dad taught me how to read and write before I ever went to school, and he also noticed my interest in aviation, and chartered a small plane when I was in kindergarten, and took me and a friend of my mine for a ride. As much of an asshole as he was in other areas, those are a couple of the big things that really stuck with me.
So, even though I never really even completed the 7th grade, I lived on my own at 16, got a private pilot's license at 23, and now, in my 30s, I work in a field where many of my peers have advanced degrees in computers and engineering, and they come to me on a regular basis to solve complex problems that they don't even know how to approach.
The ability to think for yourself is not a flaw! Not everyone can go to the library or the internet and learn more than they can in school, like Niles. The kid that takes meds to tolerate "daycare" is probably bored to death. This whole concept that you're going to be an absolute falure without being educated by an institution sounds very much like the "dead, insane, in jail" crap that the programs preach.
No wonder kids are going on shooting rampages at school.
Anyway. I usually don't say much, but I'm always lurking. :D
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Anyway. I usually don't say much, but I'm always lurking.
You should more often. That was great.
I'd be willing to bet that if the parents would actually take the time to help the kids learn the basics, and help them find a real world interest, the rest would take care of itself. My dad taught me how to read and write before I ever went to school, and he also noticed my interest in aviation, and chartered a small plane when I was in kindergarten, and took me and a friend of my mine for a ride. As much of an asshole as he was in other areas, those are a couple of the big things that really stuck with me.
So, even though I never really even completed the 7th grade, I lived on my own at 16, got a private pilot's license at 21, and now, in my 30s, I work in a field where many of my peers have advanced degrees in computers and engineering, and they come to me on a regular basis to solve complex problems that they don't even know how to approach.
Yep. Same here. My dad gave me a connection to the water and boating. Now my husband and I make a living in the field, mostly him but it's been getting busier so, so am I. I'm a high school drop-out (well, pulled out to go in Straight) and always given a hard time for not going back to school. I just couldn't, especially after that place. Then I was pushed to get a 'real job'. Office job, 9-5. I did. I was miserable. I'm finally happy now and that didn't happen until the last few years when I was finally able to let go of what everyone else wanted me to do and be. I fought so hard for so long to try and fit into their image of what I should do with my life, and I failed miserably, I seriously believe it damn near killed me. When I did finally turn loose of the chains I turned out ok.
That's what I mean when I harp on this adolescence is not a pathology stuff I keep throwing around. What else is there really to talk about? Programs are going to keep popping up as soon as one gets shut down until this changes.
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That's what I mean when I harp on this adolescence is not a pathology stuff I keep throwing around.
Adolescence is not a pathology, but other things are. Sometimes therapy and/or medication helps, and sometimes those same things are abused by those who are supposed to be dispensing them competently and caringly. So what do we do, get rid of it all -- the mental health field and its drugs -- to make sure no one can possibly be harmed by incompetence?
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No, of course not. I'm not a fanatic, I do believe that meds have their place. But I think it's gotten so far out of hand now. In my admittedly limited experience with ADD/HD kids, they've all been friends' kids or my kids' friends but there have been A LOT that carry a dx for it, there wsa one kid out of about 15 who I would have even considered for even looking into it.....and they were all, ALL of them doped. It just seems like most of it is so unnecessary and done for kids to fit the molds of what their parents and society have set up for them. Again, just a layman's unscientific observation
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***Adolescence is not a pathology, but other things are.
Yes, like real medical diseases. Behaviors and learning challenges aren't diseases, although they can manifest as sympton of real disease. Children shouldn't have to be "labeled" and drugged in order to receive accomodations for their differences/preferences.
***So what do we do, get rid of it all -- the mental health field and its drugs -- to make sure no one can possibly be harmed by incompetence?
Not "we", but they, could start by admitting that there is no science to support their claims and that the drugs "cure" nothing. "We don't know what 'causes' ADHD, but we've noticed that speed seems to have a desirable effect on children who can't conform to oppressive environments, particularly young boys". Schools could stop requiring a dx/drugs in order for a child to attend or receive special accomodations. They should also be required to inform parents of the risks associated with the drugs they recommend, like Ritalin carries the same risks associated with cocaine- enlarged heart, stunted growth, brain shrinkage. Antidepressants- increase risk of suicide/homicide, addicting with severe withdrawal symptoms, long-term effects unknown.
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What i dont understand about drugging kids is that on one hand the "war on drugs" tells people that illegal drugs are really societys worst ill, yet kids are being drugged so easily. Is there no concern about the mixed message that this sends? Surely kids should be encouraged to think that medication is only one answer because it is for genuine illness.
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In response to schools having to "dumb down"...
While I have don't know much about public schools CURRENTLY... during the 90's I was in junior high and high school, both at public and private schools.
And I have not seen that "8th grade test from the early 1900's", I must say that in consideration of all that has been learned and discovered since that time, of course test questions will change! Kids have so much more to learn today about biology, chemistry, computers, ect... We cannot even compare it to schools of an earlier time.
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In response to schools having to "dumb down"...
Kids have so much more to learn today about biology, chemistry, computers, ect... We cannot even compare it to schools of an earlier time.
Very true. Kids have not only have much more to learn, but they have to learn it at a younger age than in decades past, and the expectations of knowlege & skills in the modern economy are much higher.
But it also seems to be true that schools "dumb down" to the lowest common denominator, so the really smart kids are bored to death, and yet there are still so many who struggle, barely make it through or drop out.
Seems to me a kid who is bored is more likely to get in trouble and get labeled with 'behavioral issues.'
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It's called "learning disability" but a more correct term is probably learning differences.
The latter term reeks too much of political correctness to gain acceptance.
All kids learn in the same general range, unless their brain is terribly damaged. They learn somewhere along a curve relative to each other, but in the same ballpark we call "humanity."
All kids have brain and body development that affects when they're ready to learn specific things. For example, they teach cursive when they do because of the average rate of development of fine motor skills.
Average.
Most kids are in that average land on brain and body development, pretty much across the board. They're ready to learn certain tasks by a certain age.
In Katie's case, it's not that she can't write, it's that her ability to write smoothly has lagged behind other kids. Some things she does better than average. On writing, she's on a different development timetable. Her fine motor skills are developing to handle writing. Her ability and willingness to form the letters other people's way instead of insisting on making up her own--which wasn't working out very well for her--are developing.
She's stubborn, but she's maturing into making better decisions about what to be stubborn about.
I don't know exactly why she couldn't write small or on the line without extreme labor compared to other kids, but she couldn't. She's catching up, and as her handwriting becomes more automatic and she doesn't have to concentrate on the mechanics so much, the content of what she writes is improving.
I don't know why it takes her longer to learn how to spell, but I do know that that's not uncommon and it's not uncommon for kids' spelling to catch up, mostly, when it finally clicks.
It's not that she's unable. It's just that her mind is putting a priority on different talents and tasks, putting "written expression" on a different timetable.
If the mass of kids were on that same timetable, everybody, on average, would still graduate high school knowing the same stuff they do now---the curriculum would just be oriented towards that "average" development pattern and a kid who meets todays "average" would be lagging in something else.
It really is a learning difference, instead of a disability---all PC crap aside.
But a rose by any other name---what the label gets the kid and the parent is a curriculum rewritten to the timetable that's "average" for that subset of kids, with careful attention paid to further tailoring the rate of instruction and techniques emphasized to whatever best helps the kid learn.
There's a very real set of differences these "learning disabilities" describe. The specialized curricula and teaching techniques work.
It's a Washington thing. If you call it a "disability" you can explain to taxpayers why they need to pay more money for it. If you call it a "difference" those rotten little brats can damned well conform.
The truth? It's a difference, but it always costs more to do small lot specialty jobs than big, industrial production runs. Schools are run a lot like factories. The average kid can get a good education, if the parents are paying attention, in the present, mainstream system. However, then you have all the kids who don't exactly match up with that average, and it's counterproductive to fail a kid a whole grade when he's passing everything else, and a year ahead in language arts and reading, just because he's trying but flunking math. It also doesn't work to pass him anyway and leave him sitting in a class that is teaching math that's way over his head.
The LD kids cost more money to teach because they're the small, specialty production runs.
But if we don't pay more and educate them anyway, we all pay the price down the line when Johnny can't read or figure, or drops out and can't do any of it very well.
Taxpayers will pay to educate kids with disabilities.
Taxpayer: Aw, poor kid. Here's a quarter.
Taxpayers will not pay to educate kids whose readiness to learn different skills is out of kilter from average.
Taxpayer: The little brat can fall in line, stand up straight, and work harder, dammit. The very idea!
Whaddya want more, accuracy in labelling or kids actually learning? Can't seem to have both.
Julie
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Yeh, it always boils down to money with the system.
Truth being, the 'system' is flawed from the foundation up.
Read about Montessori. There's no reason we can't have Montessori in our public schools. It would eliminate this problem all together.
The daughter of the woman who owned the M school (K-12) my sons attended couldn't spell until she was in her 20s. She wasn't labeled or criticized/humiliated for 12 years, or singled out for special services. M allows for differences, in fact applauds kids uniquenesses. They also believe that every person develops at their own rate and doesn't compare children's abilities. No test except to see where a child may need extra attention. No grades. Brilliant kids who are self motivated to learn.
We 'do' have options that are more humane. More aware of and sensitive to children's real needs. Why does the system insist on continuing to do what clearly doesn't work?
Gatto addresses that well.
An essay that kinda summarizes his thesis "Against Schools":
http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm (http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm)
Read the entire book "Underground History of American Education" online here:
http://www.rit.edu/~cma8660/mirror/www. ... /index.htm (http://www.rit.edu/~cma8660/mirror/www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/index.htm)
2-1/2 hours of video lecture broken up into 19 topics that were covered in the book. Really good:
http://www.edflix.org/gatto.htm (http://www.edflix.org/gatto.htm)
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The sad, unfortunate fact is that we CANNOT depend on the public school system to educate our young.
I have seen too many kids "fall through the cracks", myself included. I recall my girlfriend's 12th grade AP English teacher FAILED her simply because she had "too many unexcused absences", although she did all her work and had earned a B+ in the class. Because of this, my friend was not allowed to graduate with her high school class.
Anyway, what I remember most about public school was being treated like a herd of unruly animals.
BTY, I did find that "8th grade test" online somewhere. It features such questions as "Name 10 rules for the use of Capital letters". It reminds me of my early years of Catholic school education- petty minded and impractical.
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In response to schools having to "dumb down"...
And I have not seen that "8th grade test from the early 1900's", I must say that in consideration of all that has been learned and discovered since that time, of course test questions will change! Kids have so much more to learn today about biology, chemistry, computers, ect... We cannot even compare it to schools of an earlier time.
The test is on the basics that apply to any degree or any further knowledge and would be necessary for any career. The year is 1895:
http://people.moreheadstate.edu/fs/w.wi ... grade.html (http://people.moreheadstate.edu/fs/w.willis/eighthgrade.html)
On the news last night they had a piece on how far behind American kids are from European kids, with both given the same test and to different grade levels. At 4th grade, Americans scored the highest at above average. By high school, Americans scored in the 40 percentile, while the Europeans were at 76%. In both places, they utilized top performing kids in top performing schools.
One mother interviewed had a 16-year-old son in public schools who was reading at grades 1-4. She was angry at the schools for not teaching him.
My wonder and amazement was that she had not self-taught her son by age 16 to read, but put the entire blame on the schools. I know if my son wasn't doing well in grade school, I'd be trying something different, and I'd certainly be involved in teaching him myself if I felt he wasn't getting it from school.
By 8th grade, my son was well ahead of the class and bored stiff. I took him out of public schools from 9th grade on, and put him in a new charter school that was just beginning. His class size dropped from 1,400 to 25! This alone made a huge difference, and the charter school had different curriculums, more interests, and more hands-on learning and teaching.
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In that news report I talked about in the last post, the public schools were paying $10,000 per child per year. Some of the private and charter schools had costs as low as $3,000 per child, and they had higher performing kids, more of them, and less "left behind" than did the public schools. Educators in these facilities said money is not the cure, it's how you use it. Teachers in these facilities were also paid a higher salary than the public schools.
In Europe, the schools compete for kids. Parents pick which school and the "state" sends the payment to the schools based on enrollment. If the parents or the kid doesn't like the school, they pick and go to another one. Due to this, bad schools end up going by the wayside.
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Some interesting facts from Stosell's Stupid in America, that aired last night: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/stor ... 857&page=1 (http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=2383857&page=1)
It's not about money.
And while many people say, "We need to spend more money on our schools," there actually isn't a link between spending and student achievement.
Jay Greene, author of "Education Myths," points out that "If money were the solution, the problem would already be solved ? We've doubled per pupil spending, adjusting for inflation, over the last 30 years, and yet schools aren't better."
He's absolutely right. National graduation rates and achievement scores are flat, while spending on education has increased more than 100 percent since 1971. More money hasn't helped American kids.
Money is wasted:
Here's just one example from New York City: It took years to fire a teacher who sent sexually oriented e-mails to "Cutie 101," a 16-year-old student. Klein said, "He hasn't taught, but we have had to pay him, because that's what's required under the contract." (United Federation of Teachers)
Only after six years of litigation were they able to fire him. In the meantime, they paid the teacher more than $300,000. Klein said he employs dozens of teachers who he's afraid to let near the kids, so he has them sit in what are called rubber rooms. This year he will spend $20 million dollars to warehouse teachers in five rubber rooms. It's an alternative to firing them. In the last four years, only two teachers out of 80,000 were fired for incompetence. Klein's office says the new contract will make it easier to get rid of sex offenders, but it will still be difficult to fire incompetent teachers.
Unionized monopoly, no competition, parents don't have a choice.
Chavous, who has worked to get more school choice in Washington, D.C., said, "Choice to me is the only way. I believe that we can force the system from an external vantage point to change itself. It will never change itself from within. ? Unless there is some competition infused in the equation, unless that occurs, then they know they have a captive monopoly that they can continue to dominate."
Competition inspires people to do what we didn't think we could do. If people got to choose their kids' school, education options would be endless. There could soon be technology schools, science schools, virtual schools where you learn at home on your computer, sports schools, music schools, schools that go all year, schools with uniforms, schools that open early and keep kids later, and, who knows what else. If there were competition, all kinds of new ideas would bloom.
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We do have such schools, Deborah. They're called private schools.
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I hate John Stossel, just wanted to get that out of the way.
I wonder if he has set foot at a school lately? It's like a lockdown prison, they have plain clothes police officers, drug dogs, metal detectors, motion cameras, kids aren't allowed to leave at lunch anymore. School is nothing more than a prison now, conditioning the sheep for the herd. John Stossel... man I would love to punch him in the face.
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Competition inspires people to do what we didn't think we could do. If people got to choose their kids' school, education options would be endless. There could soon be technology schools, science schools, virtual schools where you learn at home on your computer, sports schools, music schools, schools that go all year, schools with uniforms, schools that open early and keep kids later, and, who knows what else. If there were competition, all kinds of new ideas would bloom.
There could also be:
Jesus Schools
KKK Schools
Druggie Schools
Black Schools
Mexican Schools
White Schools
ESL Schools
Retard Schools
We already know there are tens of thousands of ignorant parents out there willing to send their children to known and notorious child abusers and murderes, how hard do you think it would be to get parents to send their kid to my new schools?
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Competition inspires people to do what we didn't think we could do. If people got to choose their kids' school, education options would be endless. There could soon be technology schools, science schools, virtual schools where you learn at home on your computer, sports schools, music schools, schools that go all year, schools with uniforms, schools that open early and keep kids later, and, who knows what else. If there were competition, all kinds of new ideas would bloom.
There could also be:
Jesus Schools
KKK Schools
Druggie Schools
Black Schools
Mexican Schools
White Schools
ESL Schools
Retard Schools
We already know there are tens of thousands of ignorant parents out there willing to send their children to known and notorious child abusers and murderes, how hard do you think it would be to get parents to send their kid to my new schools?
Make school VOLUNTARY and like college, and I'd bet you that a lot of the problems with school would automagically? fix themselves.
The biggest problem I had in school was with the kids who didnt want to be there nor had any business there. I was so un-fucking-beliveably miserable becuase of those little shits. :roll:
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My family is not socioeconomically challenged, so the "drug the poor kid" label doesn't fit. When my 12 year old was in 1st and 2nd grade, the teachers and counselors pushed us to get him on Ritalin, or an analogue. We vociferously fought against it. His grades were in the low Cs and D, with an occasional F. He wasn't happy, had no friends, wasn't sleeping, and had impulse control problems. We tried play therapy, and other counseling, but to no avail. In third grade, I brought it up with the pediatrician who had known him for several years, and she told us that she never recommended ADHD drugs unless the parents suggested it first. We put him on Concerta. I got a constant raft of crap from well meaning friends who thought I was an awful parent for drugging my kid. However, he made the honor roll, started to sleep at night, and became more confident and made friends. He's now in 7th grade, and we are probably going to reduce his dose and see what happens. He still makes the honor roll, and is significantly happier. Say what you will, blame the drug industry, whatever you like, all I know is it worked for us. One interesting aspect is realizing that I also had/have ADHD (I'm 45), as I was very similar to my son when I was a child. I got horrible grades, was socially awkward, and also had insomnia. My doctor has recommended that I try Adderol, but I feel that I've managed to work around it. Now I'm happily hyper, but I often wonder how life would have been different had I been diagnosed at an earlier age and not written off as a waste of space in school.
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How about giving kids the option of attending school at later hours? Some people are just biologically nocturnal, and there is actually a genetic basis for this. It's been labeled as a "circadian disorder", but the fact is, it's not a disorder at all. Society needs people that can be awake and alert when others are sleeping. Funny how those people are also written off as social deviants, and nobody seems to notice that the world doesn't shut down after dark.
People often mistake this for insomnia, but a lot of them have never even tried a night schedule. The effects of chronic sleep deprivation can look very much like ADD, and can make a person nearly nonfunctional and absolutely miserable.
Personally, I'd rather eat broken glass than to have go to school at 7 or 8 every morning.
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Hey Hey, good point. There are a lot of square pegs out there that don't fit in round holes no matter how hard you push, file, hammer. We all just weren't made from the same mold.
There are so many cases where kids have been drugged for genuine medical problems. Allergies, bad vision or hearing, malnutrition, learning differences, neurological problems..... and then we have the parent induced anxiety- parent speaking to their kid in cheerleader tone, normal is boring, exposing them to scarey movies at an early age (Disney included), real emotional distress, and of course, unrealistic expections on the part of parent/school.
No one says the drugs aren't "effective" in some cases, just as effective as a daily dose of cocaine or marijuana, depending on where one sits on the bell curve- and the latter being far less harmful than the former. The questions- have all other potential medical/emotional factors been ruled out and are the risks worth it?
There is no Ritalin/Adderall/Concerta (cocaine/amphetimine) deficiency from which these kids suffer and for which the drugs are a cure. If you speed up a hyper person with any amphetimine, they're going to be pushed over the bell curve and appear more calm. They may also experience an enlarged heart, shrunken brain, decreased appeitite/weight loss, etc. But hey, the drug masked all the indicators of a real problem and therefore, the kid made the honor roll. And that's what's important boys and girls.
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Thats a fantastic idea.
My biggest problem as a student was having to wake up and function in school at such early hours. Many times, I just did not even go.
For certain, if school had started at noon, I would have had no problems going and doing my work.
I have always been a "night person", ever since I was an infant. When I was in junior high and high school, and didn't want to wake up early, my parents would tell me that I would end up as a "loser" if I did not learn to wake up early. They also told (any therapist who would listen) that I was "not functioning" well with my family, that I was "not trying", because I slept until noon on the weekends. It was like this huge deal.
Ha-ha. I now work as a nurse, where not only can I work night hours, I also get paid extra for it.
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Damn, seems fornits should set up a night club for insomniacs :o
BTW, Ive spent the past few days basically alone while my folks are down in Jacksonville looking for a job... I prolly shoulda announced this when they first left :rofl:
They should be back sometime today. Jax got much of a night life? HERE everything fucking closes at 10 pm!!!!
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George Carlin puts a humorous spin on Education, American Dream
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... =935607276 (http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=935607276)
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Ernest Ryan wrote on September 20, 2006 10:13 PM:"Here is an example of what Indiana families can expect to see happen if they do not take immediate action to repeal SEA 529. This bill mandates universal mental health testing for Indiana children. As a result of this, all school children will take some form of invasive mental health survey such as the TeenScreen survey that was recently run on a pilot group of 71 Mansfield, Ohio area ninth-graders. Based on the results of that screening "39 students required a follow-up interview with a clinician." That's 55% of what would otherwise be considered normal students now needing to see a mental health clinician based on answers they gave to the TeenScreen survey. That's quite a few kids that might end up spending years taking drugs like Prozac, Strattera, Cymbalta or Zyprexa. These are all expensive and often violence and suicide-inducing psychiatric drugs made by Eli Lilly. The fact that Gov. Mitch Daniels was the former President of Eli Lilly is one big reason SEA 529 got signed into law. I wonder how much the Indiana Commission on Mental Health had to do with designing this ground-breaking mental health plan for Indiana school children. Just when the light of public outrage started shining on mandated mental health screening in Indiana, Robert Postlethwait, a member of that commission, quietly resigned. He was also a 30-year employee of Eli Lilly and an advisor to TeenScreen which figures prominently in surveying children for mental illness in many American schools and funneling them to psychiatrists who put them on psychiatric medications in almost every case. It seems to me that Robert Postlethwait should become a person of interest. With Eli Lilly being centered in Indianapolis, is it any wonder why Indiana school children are being set up to be prescribed the profitable psychiatric drugs that they make? With the help of TeenScreen, the Madison Center in South Bend, Indiana, is now treating over 500 kids per day for trumped up mental illnesses and they recently broke ground on an expansion building so they can treat many more kids. This was all reported in the South Bend Tribune in September, 2005. People need to question how SEA 529 came about and investigate the connections and backgrounds of everyone connected to bringing that law into existence. Then repeal SEA 529 and prosecute those found promoting the interests of Eli Lilly and other drug companies at the expense of Indiana's children and families. This whole issue is not about the welfare of children at all. It is about ruthless greed, money and hooking kids on profitable psychiatric drugs and nothing else. "
http://www.kpcnews.com/online_features/ ... mments.txt (http://www.kpcnews.com/online_features/sea529/comments/comments.txt)
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There already is a late-start provision that gets included as a modification in some IEPs for bipolar children.
The school sends a van or somesuch to pick the kid up an hour or two later than the normal start time for school.
Parents usually only pick this if the kid is extremely drowsy in the mornings after everything else has been tried, because it results in a loss of instructional time for a kid who may already be struggling academically.
Sometimes, there's no choice---you can park the kid in a chair, but he's still going to be snoring. Better he should be snoring in his bed.
They do it for some bipolars because it can be a symptom of the disorder. Meds, bedtime, amount of time in bed---for some, none of it matters and there's nothing you can do. Their circadian rhythms are just wired that for certain times in the morning, they're gonna be asleep.
Where the population is dense enough to support it, flextime for schools is a great idea. For parents of bipolars, if something your kid needs is on your menu of options anyway, it helps protect the kid from being stigmatized.
Julie
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Someone mentioned the existence of Program Parents is a reason school choice can be a bad idea---parents that send their children to known child abusers. Parents who are either oblivious or so far in denial that the flood waters are bashing them against the pyramids.
I think it's important to remember that the single most significantly bad feature about the Programs is the incarceration.
Even in Ginger's Straight days, the system was still incarceration---a bizarre form of house arrest in some fool of a lunatic's house, but incarceration nonetheless.
Without physical incarceration of its victims, the Programs' ability to function as a punitive system for breaking individuals into abject compliance is crippled. Not necessarily eliminated, but crippled.
Julie
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Without physical incarceration of its victims, the Programs' ability to function as a punitive system for breaking individuals into abject compliance is crippled. Not necessarily eliminated, but crippled.
I agree. For some parents (not all) the attraction is incarceration though. It is a whole lot easier to tell yuorself that your kids is getting help than it is to recognise that it is easier to have a difficult kid out of the house, or worse that in the battle between stepmom and the kid the kid is gonna loose.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again; kids don't deserve no goddamn rights, cuz they ain't no better than a bunch of fuckin NIGGERS! If mine ever try to "assert their rights" I'm gonna drag 'em out to the woodshed and tear up their uppity little asses!
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You forgot to log out thsi time :D
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I always read and hear about stuff and forget where I read it. I read lots of stuff. But one article was about teens and sleep. The article stated the typical school hour were great for the natural sleep cycles of a third grader. It explained that a hormone called melatonin increases in kids of that age at the right time to get them to bed and have them fall asleep so that they wake up naturally 9 or 10 hours later and can go to school.
Teenagers also need 9 to 10 hours sleep, but the study showed that the melatonin does not increase in until later in the evening. You can put the kid to bed, but they won't fall asleep any earlier. Thus when morning comes and they must wake up, they are difficult to get out of bed. Worse, they are missing out on the REM sleep cycles that are most important for learning and memory. Of course, they are tired and cranky.
They told about a school that experimented with later high school hours and discovered that grades went up, discipline problems went down, and truancy was almost non-existent.
Now I remember where I heard all this. It was a show on the Discovery Channel. They did two shows actually. One was about boys and one about girls. It was called Teen Species: Boys.
http://vcuhvlibrary.uhv.edu/libraryinfo ... fall05.htm (http://vcuhvlibrary.uhv.edu/libraryinfo/depts/media/dvdfall05.htm)
I remember a quote from a psychologist on the show: "Show me a boy who does not get into trouble prior to age 18, and I will show you someone who is NOT the epitome of mental health."
She was talking about puberty, testosterone, and risk taking behavior in teenage boys; and how normal this is.
These were excellent shows depicting the real development of real kids that they followed for two years through the onset of puberty.
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You mean like I like to fuck goats, but most people I know say that's normal...?
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No, should I???
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I remember a quote from a psychologist on the show: "Show me a boy who does not get into trouble prior to age 18, and I will show you someone who is NOT the epitome of mental health."
She was talking about puberty, testosterone, and risk taking behavior in teenage boys; and how normal this is.
These were excellent shows depicting the real development of real kids that they followed for two years through the onset of puberty.
This is why I think the idea of wilderness programmes & team sports can be such a great thing for some teenage boys (not the for profit style nature prisons that have sprung up) Get them doing exciting risk taking things like rock climing and white water rafting or skiing! have them bash into each other on a football field. This has to be a healthier outlet for a boy and it does not punish anyone for a normal biological stage!
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What qualifies a kid as normal though?
Seems way to objective, and not nearly subjective enough.
Damn psychological check lists.
Exactly, what is normal? Is ADHD a 'disorder', or is it a case of trying to force the kids to fit the classroom instead of the other way around?
I believe that what is called 'normal' has become more and more narrowly defined; causing more and more people to fall off the edges of the binomial curve.
Hide your goats.
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Hide your goats.
Or better yet, crate them & send them to me!
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Theresa Rhoades Speaks Out Against Teen Screen and tells what happened to her daughter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6AFRhVe8aE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6AFRhVe8aE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3T2rRpx ... ed&search= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3T2rRpxhps&mode=related&search=)
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Student's Suicide Confession Lands Her In Mental Clinic
February 27, 2007
APOPKA, Fla. -- An Orange County father is furious after school
officials sent his daughter to a mental health clinic.
Jenny Helmick, a student at Wolf Lake Middle School, went to a guidance
counselor and ended up spending the night at Lakeside Alternatives, WESH
2 News reported.
Her father, Paul Helmick, said the situation started with a movie about
suicide prevention. The movie is part of a district-wide program that
teaches students to ACT; Acknowledge, Care and Tell if they or a friend
shows warning signs of depression or suicide.
Helmick said he believes the school's student resource officer acted way
out of line by invoking the Baker Act, which allows law enforcement to
take someone in for emergency evaluation.
Although she can forget her troubles when riding her go-cart around the
family farm, Helmick said she'll always remember how she ended up at
Lakeside Alternatives, by admitting she had once thought about suicide.
"I was pretty honest and I guess honesty can get you to a good place and
get you in a bad place and at this point I think it's really messed my
life up at this point so far," Helmick said.
Helmick made her confession to Latasha Hanna, the SAFE coordinator at
the middle school, who said she was just taking precautions.
"I never want to gamble with their lives. So when a student comes to
talk to me, I take everything that they say very seriously and try to
get them help if I can," Hanna said.
Helmick's father said it didn't help when the resource officer
considered her a threat to herself and had her admitted to Lakeside.
"If my daughter did say she wanted to kill herself, the right thing for
them should have been to make sure that they held on to that child until
a parent was brought in to that school to meet with them," he said.
Helmick believes the Baker Act that allowed the student resource officer
to take his daughter to Lakeside gives police too much power.
"Keep in mind, a police officer does not have medical experience on
telling me whether my daughter is crazy or not," He said.
Helmick said the movie encouraged her to seek out the SAFE cooridinator
because she felt depressed about problems with bullies. School officials
said they are looking into those problems.
Administrators said there have been four students taken to Lakeside from Wolf Lake Middle School this year.
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On the video- The "student resource officers/SAFE coordinators" work for law enforcement and the number of kids sent to a mental health facility is not tracked.
VIDEO HERE: http://www.wesh.com/news/11123803/detail.html (http://www.wesh.com/news/11123803/detail.html)
Screening for Mental Health, Inc. out of Massachusetts, has a program
called "Signs of Suicide" which has been implemented in many public
schools across the country. They receive millions in pharmaceutical
funding. Tax records here: http://www.signsofsuicide.org (http://www.signsofsuicide.org) They are also
the ones that came up with the annual National Depression Screening Day.
Please write to the below Orange County, Florida school board chairman
and bcc the school board members and a few legislators who sponsored
the SOS bill in Florida last year and may be filing the same bill this
year (e-mail addresses provided below) and let them have a piece of
your mind - politely - and add that you saw the video in the news and
that you don't want Signs of Suicide in schools.
The suicide movie is part of the SOS program. You can see the reference
to: "Acknowledge, Care and Tell" right on their website here:
http://www.mentalhealthscreening.org/ch ... oWest.aspx (http://www.mentalhealthscreening.org/champions/MetroWest.aspx) (last
paragraph)
School board chairman, Karen Ardaman martinj7@ocps.net (http://mailto:martinj7@ocps.net), cadlej@ocps.net (http://mailto:cadlej@ocps.net),
roachr@ocps.k12.fl.us (http://mailto:roachr@ocps.k12.fl.us), webster.daniel.web@flsenate.gov (http://mailto:webster.daniel.web@flsenate.gov), fasano.mike.web@flsenate.gov (http://mailto:fasano.mike.web@flsenate.gov), frank.attkisson@myfloridahouse.gov (http://mailto:frank.attkisson@myfloridahouse.gov)
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http://www.truthnews.net/world/2006100395.htm (http://www.truthnews.net/world/2006100395.htm)
Congressional Control of Health Care is Dangerous for Children
Ron Paul, September 30, 2007
This week Congress is again grasping for more control over the health of American children with the expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). Parents who think federally subsidized health care might be a good idea should be careful what they wish for.
Despite political rhetoric about a War on Drugs, federally-funded programs result in far more teenage drug use than the most successful pill pusher on the playground. These pills are given out as a result of dubious universal mental health screening programs for school children, supposedly directed toward finding mental disorders or suicidal tendencies. The use of antipsychotic medication in children has increased fivefold between 1995 and 2002. More than 2.5 million children are now taking these medications, and many children are taking multiple drugs at one time.
With universal mental health screening being implemented in schools, pharmaceutical companies stand to increase their customer base even more, and many parents are rightfully concerned. Opponents of one such program called TeenScreen, claim it wrongly diagnoses children as much as 84% of the time, often incorrectly labeling them, resulting in the assigning of medications that can be very damaging. While we are still awaiting evidence that there are benefits to mental health screening programs, evidence that these drugs actually cause violent psychotic episodes is mounting.
Many parents have very valid concerns about the drugs to which a child labeled as "suicidal" or "depressed," or even ADHD, could be subjected. Of further concern is the subjectivity of diagnosis of mental health disorders. The symptoms of ADHD are strikingly similar to indications that a child is gifted, and bored in an unchallenging classroom. In fact, these programs, and many of the syndromes they attempt to screen for, are highly questionable. Parents are wise to question them.
As it stands now, parental consent is required for these screening programs, but in some cases mere passive consent is legal. Passive consent is obtained when a parent receives a consent form and fails to object to the screening. In other words, failure to reply is considered affirmative consent. In fact, TeenScreen advocates incorporating their program into the curriculum as a way to by-pass any consent requirement. These universal, or mandatory, screening programs being called for by TeenScreen and the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health should be resisted.
Kinda like incorporating "Emotional Growth" into the curriculum to avoid regulations.
Consent must be express, written, voluntary and informed. Programs that refuse to give parents this amount of respect, should not receive federal funding. Moreover, parents should not be pressured into screening or drugging their children with the threat that not doing so constitutes child abuse or neglect. My bill, The Parental Consent Act of 2007 is aimed at stopping federal funding of these programs.
We don't need a village, a bureaucrat, or the pharmaceutical industry raising our children. That's what parents need to be doing.
Congressman Ron Paul, a Republican, represents the 14th Congressional District of Texas, which encompasses the Gulf Coast region south and west of Houston.
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julie mentioned earlier that ADD/ADHD is the only LD treated with medication. i must disagree, many doctors perscribe medication "off-label". i know of many people who were put on anything from ritalin to provigil, straterra, ambien, neurontin, even xanax in one case for "learning disabilities", or some unknown school-related disorder. e.g someone very close to me had trouble falling asleep without weed before 4am, only giving her 3hrs of sleep on school nights. so she was falling asleep in class, and the concerta she was on wasnt helping to keep her up (although that was the original cause of her insomnia), so the doc stuck her on provigil, a narcolepsy drug used by primarily by millitary pilots and truck drivers. she was feeling a "comedown" from the concerta, so the doc put her on neurontin to ease the comedown. the provigil and concerta, although they were keeping her up, exacerbated her sleep problem, so she was put on ambien. before she even knew it she was on a whole cocktail of drugs just to keep her functioning. lately, all the drugs have been giving her anger issues - the concerta (ritalin - an amphetamine), caused anger issues, (methamphetamine and cocaine are known to do), and now the doc gave her a bottle of xanax to carry around with her to school, and told her to pop one whenever she gets angry or irratible.
of course, this is not very common, but it happens. some special ed school/teachers actually do some good. but other schools, even ones dedicated to helping kids, would rather drug you than give you a little extra care and attention; because they have an X number of other kids to deal with too.
it doesnt matter if it's a public or private school, it's all about location. in my area, (a major metro area), private school are simply a place where middle to upper class white people send their kids, so they can be with other middle to upper class kids, so that they will be able to make freinds and wont be harrased by the largely minority public school population. the private school education is really not much better, the classes are smaller but the general attitude is all the same, all the same drugs and violence is still there. it's just nice, clean, sanitary, and "white". there are plenty of public schools in the city where if you excel in a particular subject, you can apply there and they are a very exlusive, high-end school, strictly for the best and the brightest. also, if you go out to the suburbs you'll notice something. the domanantly white areas have very, very good public schools, with great special ed programs. but the black and mexican areas, all have horrible schools. the goverment simply doesnt want to educate the lower class, and put all their energy in the upper class. and then problems arise when neighborhoods become gentriified and white people start sending their kids to minority schools.
it's my personal opinion that LD diagnoses are O.K, as long as medication is only used in the worst of the worst of the worst, and even then it has to be strictly monitored and "off-label" usage has to have much stricter controls. i think psychologists, psychiatrists, and psychotherapists should all get at least 5 years of experience as a teacher, or working with kids outside of their field before they ever start giving out meds and helping kids. i think private schools should be abolished, and that parents must pay a per-kid school tax if you are in the upper brackets; and cities must keep all schools, regardless of the neighborhood, diverse and equal. the only thing that i think should be allowed is charter public schools and specialty schools, e.g if you're way ahead of your classmates in every subject, and particularly excel in say, science, you can apply to a public school which specializes in science.