Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 10, 2006, 10:58:44 PM
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I was going to post this in the main Troubled Parent forum but this is sort of off-topic for that.
As most of the people on this forum know, assorted sports-related activities bring me in the vicinity of a wide variety of children. For convenience purposes I'll classify them into a dichotomy, although this is more of a sliding scale than anything else.
Kid A: Usually alone or with friends. Only in certain situations (water park) followed around by caring parents who generally keep their hands off. Talkative. Moves quickly. A bit on the hyper side. Confident, even overconfident. Endures scrapes well, wants to do everything.
Kid B: Almost always closely watched by an adult. Rarely goes outside- it's obvious. Often obese. Slow. Quiet, way too God damn quiet. Usually coddled by unnecessary safety devices (motherfucking floaties in the water park on a seven year old?!). Uncertain, scared. May be on some sort of mind-altering drug.
At first when I saw this I figured the Kid Bs were just younger, maybe a bit bigger for their age. Nope. I've had a Kid A follow me around. (No, seriously. I don't approach the kids; it's not my place to do so. It's always the reverse.) He couldn't have been older than seven, probably younger than that. He was all the way to the A side of the scale- stair-climbing exhaustion meant nothing to him and he knew no fear. And when I informed his guardian (don't think it was his mom) that he was following me (and that I didn't care), she didn't freak out.
On the other hand, I've seen eight and nine-year-olds whose parents wouldn't let them more than four feet away. Those kids hesitated even before the slow circular river.
At first I wondered if it was mental retardation on the Kid Bs. No. Not that common. These kids have something done to them, something insidious. Some of it I'm sure is chemical- parents who smoke around their kids, for example. But a lot is obviously simple hard overparenting.
I can't remotely guess the percentages due to the utterly biased sample. Kid Bs are rarely seen outside, after all.
Bottom line: The kid with the parents who back the fuck off and let him go play, is going to grow up stronger, smarter, more sociable, and more self-reliant. I have seen absolutely zero exceptions to this, out of a sample size of dozens upon dozens. If you want to absolutely protect him from the small chance of injury or death living his life, there is a 100% chance you will fuck him up for life doing this.
And yes, it's occurred to me that maybe some of these parents want to have their children as Kid B, an obedient little thing that they can show off in public instead of an actual growing sentient being. I want to kick these parents in the face. Hard. With Heelys on. When the coroner sees the inch-deep semicircular indentations in the skull, he'll know it's me. "Welllp, looks like MGDP got another one. Asshole keeps me in biz, that's for sure."
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My parents were fine with me wandering miles from the house when I was 9. That was back in the 70's. Yeah, there's a happy medium there that lies somewhere between neglect and "over-parenting".
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To think that I walked to school by myself when I was five with one friend, and traveled blocks away to play in the streets/canyons/forts without my parents knowing specifically where... this was normal then. I never felt unsafe.
Now I have two children, 4 and 6, and I don't know if its the media or what, but I couldn't imagine letting them walk to school alone.
When I took them to the library recently, another mother gave me holy hell for letting them play outside while I read the bulletin in the foyer.
Hell--I fear more the wrath of judgmental mothers.
Today, mothers don't support eachother, we just bitch and judge expecting everyone to go at it alone.
When I was coming up, the mothers supported eachother and you can be damn sure that one of them would be on our case when we fucked up. In this way, we got the message on how to behave in society that we might not get if we had to solely listen to our own parent. Third party reinforcement is usually the most effective. All the kids in the neighborhood knew if there was trouble there was a whole cadre of parents we could turn to who would help us.
Now everyone is on his own, but with a nice side of judgment thrown in.
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Now I have two children, 4 and 6, and I don't know if its the media or what, but I couldn't imagine letting them walk to school alone.
Dunno about the 4 year old, but just tell the 6-year-old, "You know where the school is, right? You know you have to be there on time? What do you need me for? Go."
There's a billion technological solutions to keep track of them and prevent them from getting kidnapped, including a 110 decibel hyper screamer.
When I took them to the library recently, another mother gave me holy hell for letting them play outside while I read the bulletin in the foyer.
Learn how to be nasty. "Piss off, bitch. Maybe your dumb ass keeps kids on leashes, but my kids are going to grow up to become human beings. Now maybe your tiny little mind can't handle that, in which case I have to ask what you're doing in a libratry of all places."
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To think that I walked to school by myself when I was five with one friend, and traveled blocks away to play in the streets/canyons/forts without my parents knowing specifically where... this was normal then. I never felt unsafe.
This reminded me that I went to the school bus stop by myself in 1st and 2nd grades... The stop was on 39th & Greenmount which was in a relatively 'bad' part of town. No one thought twice about it....
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Now I have two children, 4 and 6, and I don't know if its the media or what, but I couldn't imagine letting them walk to school alone.
Dunno about the 4 year old, but just tell the 6-year-old, "You know where the school is, right? You know you have to be there on time? What do you need me for? Go."
There's a billion technological solutions to keep track of them and prevent them from getting kidnapped, including a 110 decibel hyper screamer.
When I took them to the library recently, another mother gave me holy hell for letting them play outside while I read the bulletin in the foyer.
Learn how to be nasty. "Piss off, bitch. Maybe your dumb ass keeps kids on leashes, but my kids are going to grow up to become human beings. Now maybe your tiny little mind can't handle that, in which case I have to ask what you're doing in a libratry of all places."
Pretty obvious that you don't have a 6 year old at home....
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Pretty obvious that you haven't seen a six year old in several years.
I've known several real world children at that age who walked to school every day, so shut your mouth and go back to Struggling Tards or whatever hole in the wall you came from.
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I've known several real world children at that age who walked to school every day, so shut your mouth and go back to Struggling Tards or whatever hole in the wall you came from.
:rofl: :rofl: :tup: ::rocker:: ::both:: ::both:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha2:: ::bangin:: ::soapbox:: ::unhappy:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: :skull: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: :tup: :tup: :tup:
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Pretty obvious that you haven't seen a six year old in several years.
I've known several real world children at that age who walked to school every day, so shut your mouth and go back to Struggling Tards or whatever hole in the wall you came from.
You sound so lovely....something you're not used to stuck in your ass??
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Don't you have seven year olds to murder?
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Don't you have seven year olds to murder?
Is that supposed to be funny? You must seriously be one unhappy person :cry:
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i have a boy that is 10, as far as letting him outta my site....pahlease.....the world is not a place for children to be left unattended. too many fuckin perverts in the world today. hello this is not the 70s 80s or 90s. the world is not as it was when we were growing up.
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i have a boy that is 10, as far as letting him outta my site....pahlease.....the world is not a place for children to be left unattended. too many fuckin perverts in the world today. hello this is not the 70s 80s or 90s. the world is not as it was when we were growing up.
FINALLY a voice of reason!! :tup:
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You are forgetting kid C, the one who falls in the middle of your two extreme stereotypes, which includes the large majority of kids. Most parents are protective or their young children, I would expect that. What nine year old wants to go by themselves to the mall and hang out anyways? None that I've seen. Kids don't usually even want independence from their parents until the age of 12, 13. When they are old enough to not be taken advantage of quite so easily, and when parents feel more comfortable allowing their kids to go out with their friends to the mall, etc. The child's sex also plays a large part, I'd say most parents would admit being more protective of their girls.
I do not subscribe to the idea that the opposite of a bad parent is a neglectful parent. They are both two negative extremes of the same spectrum.
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I'm just going to pass the two posts before yours off as retarded trolling or supreme idiocy- either way it's unworthy of response. You've obviously bothered to put some thought into your post, so I'll just have to say this:
I feel like Fornits somehow is connected through multiple universes. The world in which I live does not correspond to the world in which the trolls live. Whatever abyss they're from, I only hope they go back in, and make sure to firmly seal the door behind them. Either it's a dimensional problem or someone's just not paying attention to the real world, and because I actually take time to look around I don't think it's me.
I'll clarify what I see daily. Although children occasionally go alone, they usually travel in packs. I've seen two eight year olds together, sans parents, hanging out at the local Gamestop- yes, in the mall, by themselves. No, nobody was watching them. Profane little guys, too. An eight year old goes with his fourteen year old brother to the skate park reguarly to do some truly daredevil stunts. Some nine year old got his dollar swallowed by the broken vending machine and I got him a Powerade from another one (it was that hot outside; unlike certain people in Utah, I'm not going to let anyone get dehydrated). I've seen bikes locked up at the water park, meaning they came there themselves; judging from the bike sizes the kids couldn't have been more than four, four and a half feet tall. Occasionally a seven year old will go with his nine, ten year old brothers and friends.
And, of course, there's the Kid Bs- the heavily safetied-out and chafed children of parents who watch like mother hens, stick around for a grand total of fifteen minutes, and then leave when their parents are sick of watching them play.
I did mention that it was a sliding scale but the difference is usually fairly stark. The "middle of the road" is rarer than either side.
Am I getting through, yet? This is reality. If i really cared about this flamewar I'd use a digitial camcorder (faces edited out, naturally) to prove it.
For the record, I was going to the mall by myself on a regular basis by the time I was 12, and I had damn overprotective parents; practically everyone else had the same independence I've talked about above, in the fifth grade. The town was loaded with bike paths. I knew it by heart by 13. I can still navigate it from memory.
Neglect, actual neglect, doesn't even enter into it. A substantial number of these kids carry money and have cellphones, for the specific purpose of being in contact in case of emergencies. Out of all of them I don't think I've seen one where any sort of neglect was evident.
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quote{
I feel like Fornits somehow is connected through multiple universes. The world in which I live does not correspond to the world in which the trolls live. Whatever abyss they're from, I only hope they go back in, and make sure to firmly seal the door behind them. Either it's a dimensional problem or someone's just not paying attention to the real world, and because I actually take time to look around I don't think it's me.}
No...sorry... after reading your entire response I think we can safely say it IS you..
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You are forgetting kid C, the one who falls in the middle of your two extreme stereotypes, which includes the large majority of kids. Most parents are protective or their young children, I would expect that. What nine year old wants to go by themselves to the mall and hang out anyways? None that I've seen. Kids don't usually even want independence from their parents until the age of 12, 13. When they are old enough to not be taken advantage of quite so easily, and when parents feel more comfortable allowing their kids to go out with their friends to the mall, etc. The child's sex also plays a large part, I'd say most parents would admit being more protective of their girls.
I do not subscribe to the idea that the opposite of a bad parent is a neglectful parent. They are both two negative extremes of the same spectrum.
:tup: very well said
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http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=100 (http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=100)
Today?s tip will not only help you save on gas, but will hopefully help your kid(s) get some easy exercise before and after school.
Assuming it?s safe, let your kids walk or ride the bus to school.
Since it?s back to school time, I figured it was finally the appropriate time to post this tip. Today, it seems that more and more kids are getting dropped off at school by their parents as opposed to walking or riding the bus.
Some of the time, it is convenient for the parent to drop off their kid(s) at school because it?s on their way to work, but it seems a vast majority of the parents who drop their kids are making a ?special trip? to do so.
While it may not seem like a heavy burden your gas to drop your child off at school, it probably wastes more gas than you think.
More than likely, you?re going to drive between 2 and 4 miles (round trip), will sit in idle for a couple of minutes and, when you are moving, it?ll probably be a lot of stop and go driving. All of these things combined equal terrible gas mileage.
All of these things combined over an entire school year equals a lot of wasted gas and money.
So, if it?s safe enough, let your kid walk to and from school. It?s a great way for them to get some easy exercise and a simple way for your family to save some money.
If you live too far away from the school to let your child walk, I?m sure most school districts provide reliable bus service to take your child to and from school. If this is the case, go ahead and let your son or daughter ride the ?cheese wagon? to school, and it?ll help you save on gas.
Your tax dollars are paying for the service, so you may as well take advantage of it.
Either way, but not taking dropping your kids off at school each and every morning, you?ll do yourself a favor by saving a bunch of gas and money and will do your child a favor by either letting them get some easy exercise or by letting them spend some extra time with their friends on the bus.
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It/they had to make a name called "all of us" to pretend to be in the majority.
That's pathetic. That doesn't even work on Fucked Company.
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I am laughing my ass off at these responses. I'm the original poster w/ 4 and 6 year old. My only post--I didn't get into the debate. MGDP's suggested response to anal library mom had me in stitches. It is tough man, my kids climb trees and other mothers are saying "Are you sure you should let your kid do that?" It is out of control how anal, overprotective, politically correct, and judgmental we are becoming. God, we can't even issue a cross word without someone calling 911-SuperFuckingNanny.
By the way, as far as pervs are concerned (addressing anon poster who believes there are more wack jobs now), I'm not so sure if there are more pervs or media hype. My Dad is 40 years older and was a reporter who has lived through many moons. He said there were just as many wack jobs then as there are now, its just that we have the 24/7 news and tabloid shows to cover them. This did not exist in the 70s and 80s. Additionally, we now have the Internet, which provides a totally different forum for predators. I never had to worry about a 50 year old schmuck-o trying to pick me up in my Romper Room cat forum.
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Nastiness is usually the only solution. Just say, deadpan: "You're going to scream at me for allowing.. KIDS.. to climb TREES. Don't you have a hole to crawl into?"
Frankly the whole street-kidnapper pedo idea is utterly overblown. It's much, much easier for them to perpetrate their acts from positions of authority. Your average pedo is far more likely to be someone you trust with your children rather than some weird looking guy on the street.
When the time comes, teach your children to LIE on the Internet about who they are. If anyone asks for their address, tell them to give 'em some hardcore perverted-justice.com guy's name and number (be sure to have this set up in advance; lots of PeeJers would be happy to help). Ownaj will follow in short order.
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This is one of the better threads I've read on here in a long time and I think it speaks to the crux of the problem. Children are not to be covered in bubble wrap to be sent out to play and adolescents aren't to be prevented from making the mistakes in life that will help them learn. Kids are going to get hurt, physically, emotionally, all the way around. It's our job to teach them how to deal with those things, not to keep anything harmful ever from happening to them. Obviously within reason and age appropriate but that's where the debate begins. Whoever made the point about the media is dead on. There isn't really any higher of a percentage rate of the pervs out there, you just hear about more of them......over and over and over again. Same thing with bogus teen drug stats, pregnancy stats, violence stats and gullible or controlling parents all start freaking the fuck out.
I shudder to think about where my kids would be today if I had listened for even a second to their grandparents (my dad and my ex's parents put us both in Straight when we were kids). My oldest had a run with drugs for a while, scared the shit out of me but I knew better than to panic. I knew better than to allow the doomsdayers near her. They were all feeding me the tired old line "deadinsaneorinjail". Funny, she grew out of it just like most kids eventually do. There was some damage. She lost some time with school, lost some friends for a while, lost a shitload of trust from me and that's not easy to do, but she pulled herself out of it when she realize HERSELF for her OWN REASONS to reign herself in a bit. Now she's starting her LPN course, mended fences with friends or family that she hurt and she's looking forward to the rest of her life. It took her about 6 years to get through all of it, but she made it.
I really didn't mean to ramble on about my kid but I think this is getting down to the bottom of why these places are still around after all these years. It's getting more difficult for them now that there are more of us to speak out and with more ways to connect with each other but that mentality has got to change before anything meaningful happens.
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Nastiness is usually the only solution. Just say, deadpan: "You're going to scream at me for allowing.. KIDS.. to climb TREES. Don't you have a hole to crawl into?"
Frankly the whole street-kidnapper pedo idea is utterly overblown. It's much, much easier for them to perpetrate their acts from positions of authority. Your average pedo is far more likely to be someone you trust with your children rather than some weird looking guy on the street.
When the time comes, teach your children to LIE on the Internet about who they are. If anyone asks for their address, tell them to give 'em some hardcore perverted-justice.com guy's name and number (be sure to have this set up in advance; lots of PeeJers would be happy to help). Ownaj will follow in short order.
This a great thread, I think I'll hang around for a little while. I'll just sit down over here with my dog, if that's alright. No worries, I've got a plastic bag in case he drops anything. Hell, why not extend this conversation a little to include dogs! Some people are hyper-paranoid about ~any dog being off of a leash these days. Sure some of us have had some bad experiences with aggressive canines, but an unleashed dog is certainly not something to have a coronary over in each and every situation....
I used to own a big black flatcoat retriever. Nicest dog you could ever meet, but he'd tend to scare people sometimes just because of his size. I lived in a residential neighborhood that was sequestered in an area where there were a couple blocks that didn't have too much traffic on them... It was a "through street" but rarely used as such due to its narrowness and proximity to more traffic-friendly roads... I'd set out on the walks with leash in hand but would leave the dog off of it. This pooch needed lots of exercise and it was good to just let him get some of that energy out by letting him wander down the sidewalk and run around here and there. He'd usually go to the same old relatively harmless places that he liked to visit on every one of his walks... If and when he made for the street, I'd call him and he'd get out of it. I rarely had any problems with him. Perhaps I was a little too lenient with him considering this was the city, etc. (Liability and all of that- God forbid he knocks over some old lady and breaks her hip or something) But overall, no one seemed to mind! When we would get to the part of the walk where there was a block that had more traffic on it, I'd get the leash on him. At that point, I saw it as a necessity....
It seems that people tend to err on the side of over-caution all too often; in other words they worry too goddam much...
PS- Fuck all of you anally-puckered Guests on this thread. I'd like to sic my dog on you... ::both::
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I think one of the toughest things I've had to learn as a parent is you can't protect your kid from life, and if you try to, you often deprive them of learning coping skills.
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'Nuther day, more evidence.. water park was loaded with kids not being supervised. Probably one of the last good days of the year- soon it'll start to get a bit too cold for that. (In Mid-fucking-AUGUST!)
Question for the mom: Where's your husband in all of this?
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How do you end up spending so much time at the waterpark? I'm not suggesting anything shady. I've enjoyed reading your posts and we're on the same page most of the time but I'm just curious. You talk about being there a lot. Do you work there?
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He gargles there.
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When your job is as boring as mine, you start wanting to do things like that on a regular basis. Turns the zombie mode off.
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The only time I ever get really pissed off is when some of them start asking me for tobacco and alcohol. Uh, no. Do not fucking ask me for that shit. What the fuck do those guys want to be addicted to nicotine for anyway? I mean if they were asking me for some pot or something I could just laugh it off (no, I don't do weed either), but they seriously think I'm going to go over to the local convenience store and buy them stuff like that. Take two "hell no"s and call me in the morning.
Of course I'd still rather gunlunch than see any of them get sent to some shitpit.
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The only time I ever get really pissed off is when some of them start asking me for tobacco and alcohol. Uh, no. Do not fucking ask me for that shit. What the fuck do those guys want to be addicted to nicotine for anyway? I mean if they were asking me for some pot or something I could just laugh it off (no, I don't do weed either), but they seriously think I'm going to go over to the local convenience store and buy them stuff like that. Take two "hell no"s and call me in the morning.
Of course I'd still rather gunlunch than see any of them get sent to some shitpit.
Ahh...the awesome, great, well parented unsupervised kids asking a stranger for booze and butts and this is how you think children should be raised??? unsupervised??? You are a fucking moron!
BTW Im dbucfan...too lazy to log in because my parents over-parented me! :rofl:
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Iam possibly going to be a lone dissenter here, but I can see the reasoning for bubble wrapping kids, if mandatory sentencing for god knows how long is what kids face as penance for their youthful indisgresions. (see the straight discussion on cops against prohibition)
I agree in principal with Anne bonney that some kids just take the teenage thing pretty far but eventually grow out of it & make their own way in the world in good time. But if they genuinely are at risk of a harsh jail sentence, parents cant be blamed for being scared. How is a parent reasonably supposed to balance out the fact that kids will be kids with the fact that the legal system can seriously fuck things up for them and make their future pretty bloddy bleak?
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Iam possibly going to be a lone dissenter here, but I can see the reasoning for bubble wrapping kids, if mandatory sentencing for god knows how long is what kids face as penance for their youthful indisgresions. (see the straight discussion on cops against prohibition)
I agree in principal with Anne bonney that some kids just take the teenage thing pretty far but eventually grow out of it & make their own way in the world in good time. But if they genuinely are at risk of a harsh jail sentence, parents cant be blamed for being scared. How is a parent reasonably supposed to balance out the fact that kids will be kids with the fact that the legal system can seriously fuck things up for them and make their future pretty bloddy bleak?
Go with your gut...trust yourself...im not gonna give my kids too many opportunities to ask the local weirdo for a cig and some beer.
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The only time I ever get really pissed off is when some of them start asking me for tobacco and alcohol. Uh, no. Do not fucking ask me for that shit. What the fuck do those guys want to be addicted to nicotine for anyway? I mean if they were asking me for some pot or something I could just laugh it off (no, I don't do weed either), but they seriously think I'm going to go over to the local convenience store and buy them stuff like that. Take two "hell no"s and call me in the morning.
Of course I'd still rather gunlunch than see any of them get sent to some shitpit.
Ahh...the awesome, great, well parented unsupervised kids asking a stranger for booze and butts and this is how you think children should be raised??? unsupervised??? You are a fucking moron!
BTW Im dbucfan...too lazy to log in because my parents over-parented me! :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: Gotta love this one!!!
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:lol:
Fuck you :lol: :oops:
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Still there, on page two.
'tard. :roll:
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:lol:
Fuck you :lol: :oops:
Stupid asshole came here SCREAMING about how his post was deleted.
Still there, on page two. :roll:
'tard. :roll: :roll:
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once again...fuck off you perfect person who never makes a mistake. :D
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:lol:
Fuck you :lol: :oops:
Stupid asshole came here SCREAMING about how his post was deleted.
Still there, on page two. :roll:
'tard. :roll: :roll:
No i didnt...what are you talking about?? :rofl:
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uh huh!!! did too did too!! I saw it!
:P :rofl:
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uh huh!!! did too did too!! I saw it!
:P :rofl:
:lol:
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Letting a thirteen year old borrow my new grind-plate Heelys and then promptly get shown up horribly by him (he's a skateboarder, which means he knows how to grind.. I don't, yet), and promptly receving a sprained ankle attempting to grind a slippery rail.. funny, but not of interest.
What was of interest was the father bringing his two children to the park, one in infancy and the other approximately two and a half years old- not even able to talk yet- and moving around on a razor scooter.
Oh yes, the skate park was, in fact, full of moving human beings roughly two and a half times his height and eight times his weight. Not one of them came particularly close to colliding with him. (Ist verboten. Not even the biggest asshole in the place would physically interfere with that kid. Even with the father not looking.) For his part, the kid was rapidly learning to understand where the big people were going, wise beyond his years.
A few of the locals even shook hands with him, and he sat down on the long curb next to them. Surreality: A three year old and a seven year old (one of the locals, actually), sitting with a pack of teenagers. The trolls probably think I'm making this up. I'm not.
The father only intervened twice, both times to place him on top of the long incline, move his feet into a balanced position, and hold him while moving him down it at relatively high speed. The kid attempted speed a few times, falling on his ass only twice, and occasionally dramatically succeeding for someone his age.
This is the opposite of coddling. That kid is going to rule that place in ten years. Which is probably the father's intent.
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"Fearlessness is better than a faint heart for anyone who sticks his nose out of doors. As for me, the length of my life and day of my death were fated long ago." - Old Norse saying
As for the Guest who believes the world has changed and is more dangerous and we should never let our kids out of our sight, I have some advice. Turn off Fox News and go outside and play. You will see the real world is still a place where kids play just like MGDP says they do. I see it everyday. I have an active 9-yr-old son. If you continue to watch Fox News, you only become more and more paranoid. The news is not real life.
Teach your kids to be aware and cautious. My type A kid is more streetwise than many of his peers and more informed about some things than over protective parents are comfortable with, but I believe he is safer for it.
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"Fearlessness is better than a faint heart for anyone who sticks his nose out of doors. As for me, the length of my life and day of my death were fated long ago." - Old Norse saying
As for the Guest who believes the world has changed and is more dangerous and we should never let our kids out of our sight, I have some advice. Turn off Fox News and go outside and play. You will see the real world is still a place where kids play just like MGDP says they do. I see it everyday. I have an active 9-yr-old son. If you continue to watch Fox News, you only become more and more paranoid. The news is not real life.
Teach your kids to be aware and cautious. My type A kid is more streetwise than many of his peers and more informed about some things than over protective parents are comfortable with, but I believe he is safer for it.
You are more like little johnny's friend, gotcha...hey if that works for you... :rofl: