Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Oz girl on August 10, 2006, 06:35:43 AM
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Can someone explain/weigh in- is ODD:
A) a real disorder
B) a euphemism that is used when a kid is just a little shit
C) a cheap and cynical marketing tool for drug companies and the troubled teen industry to make big bicckies from kids who are having some real issues
D) any or all of the above
Discuss.
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B & C
Same with most dx of ADD, ADHD and any other comination of letter they'd like to come up with. It's so fucking twisted. I'm not so extreme that I think meds have no place at all in psychiatric treatment but holy shit it gets abused as hell. The doping of kids is never a good thing and IMO rarely[/b] necessary.
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E) Parents shop for their kids at grocery stores, which are nothing more than glorified candy stores, the food, the drink, it's all made of sugar. Why are so many kids getting fat? Because of their parents, same with all the other 'new' child pathologies we are seeing. The reaction the children are having is very much real, but the treatment they are receiving is not, it just covers up the problem. Well over ninety percent of kids on adhd drugs are boys, that should tell everyone something. The school system, and the world for young people, is being run by woman, and they haven't a clue on how to deal with unruly young boys. What these kids need is good food, plenty of exercise, mental stimulation, friends, good parents and importantly for young boys, a male role model of some kind. But that's kind of a lot of work, so why not just drug em instead?
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OCD, ODD, ADD and ADHD are all extremely over-diagnosed -- particularly the first two, which in reality are somewhat rare.
All of these disorders are of biological, not psychological origin. As such, medication can and should be used in treating true cases. Unfortunately, the staff in these 'troubled teen' institutions are grossly unqualified to make these types of diagnoses and their employers have ulterior motives for wanting diagnostic "tests" to reveal a disorder or two that justify the parents' decision to place their child in that institution. The result is that many children being diagnosed and medicated for these disorders have been mis-diagnosed and are being given medication that they do not need and which in fact could do more harm than good.
Another label of which parents should be very suspicious is "dual diagnosis." It is possible, though quite uncommon, for a person to suffer simultaneously from 2 or more disorders that manifest in behavioral or psychological ways -- for example, a patient with both schizophrenia and clinical depression. But the "dual diagnosis" label is frequently misused by incompetent mental health professionals. In most cases, the two 'disorders' that have been diagnosed are merely behavioral symptoms of a single underlying disorder or psychological issue and should be treated as such.
There is so much quackery in the mental health care business it's staggering -- and I'm referring to qualified and licensed pros with the appropriate degrees. It's quite unbelievable that there are people in 'therapeutic boarding schools' who are making diagnoses without the appropriate education or qualifications to even be considered as high in esteem as a professional "quack."
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For Opposition and Defiance to be a disorder - it must cause serious dysfunction in the life of the person who has it - as well as those around them.
This could mean, for example, the family finds it impossible to sit down to dinner together, or a movie, or whatever, due to the opposition/defiance of the patient. They are continually and unrelentingly disruptive and argumenitive.
It can mean that the patient is unable to get through a full day of class, or work, with out creating a disturbance. This can mean that the parents are also not able to get through a day of work.
It is not ODD, if the kid is just a smart alec who tends to test authority. That would indeed include most kids at one point or another in their growth and development. So, as this is normal ,it can not be a 'disorder'.
However - there are many cases of ODD being used as a throw away diagnosis. When something is wrong, and clearly causing significant disruption in a family; and they can't pin point just what - Or - if they know what it is, but it is a diagnosis the pros resist using for a child - they will often fall back on ODD, as well as ADD and Bi-Polar disorder - all acceptable in the professions, as a diagnosis for children.
Myself - I tend to believe that ODD (and "fast cycling" bi-polar disorder) are just what they call BPD, until a person is 18, when it is acceptable to diagnose a "Personality Disorder". However - I do not believe BPD is in fact a Personality Disorder. It can be treated with good nutrition, and some meds; as well as with DBT - a kind of therapy that teaches people how to examine their emotions, and the reality around, recognize the disconnect, then and to calm themselves. If it were a Personality Disorder, it would not be benefited by nutrition or medication - and patients would not be seeking out any kind of therapy - as they would not recognize they were in need of it. So say I, anyway.
Speaking of "dual diagnosis" - this is very common with BPD patients. Most all of true Borderlines have some form of OCD (such as tricotillomaina, or Tourettes; or the more common obsessions and compulsions) to one degree or another.
But back to ODD - there are of corse plenty of cases where perfectly normal kids, are labeled such, simply b/c the schools and some families, are so rigidly structured; and a creative, free thinking, free sprit, is always going to rock such a boat. Sadly, they are often tossed over board, and not embraced.
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ODD, ADD, ADHD--the profusion of psychiatric disorders defined as separate things comes, I think as a result of psychiatric research---it's pluses and its minuses.
Good: Modern psychiatry knows a lot more about the brain than they used to.
Bad: Modern psychiatry frequently knows just enough to get in trouble.
We're learning more and more about the brain every year. Understanding of what different parts of the brain do and how the brain of the kid getting bad grades, or being a little shit, differs from the brain of the kid getting good grades and being really together, is growing by leaps and bounds.
As is our understanding that many of these individual differences persist into adulthood.
Teachers, parents, and doctors naturally want their kids to get along socially, make good grades, and be happy. So we've started defining the brain differences that keep them from doing that as diseases.
In one sense, it's true. Those differences do get in between the kid and his school performance, friendships, happiness, and prospects in life. What sane person wouldn't want to improve all that, when you could figure a way to do it without harming the kid.
Instead of just calling a kid dumb, we're starting to understand why he has problems, be able to put a more specific label to it, and help him work around it. The same with the different things that can make a kid extraordinarily obnoxious and immature for his age.
Where present psychiatry's ignorance of the brain and body comes into all this is that most of these problems either come from specific genetic vulnerabilities, or the interactions of those vulnerabilities with damage, or just gross environmental damage.
It's like diagnosing a different disease for every different symptom caused by the mono virus, and for every different combination of symptoms people can have, instead of just being able to say that a kid has mono.
When we identify the genes, and we identify and name the different tiny areas of the brain with their very specific functions, we'll be able to say, "Joey has the BRCA4 gene combined with the 15-284b gene variant, with dead cell damage to frontal lobe areas 314 and 258, and excess blood flow to limbic area 39."
Then we will be able to say, "Joey's gene combination has potential to give him these problems. You can either feed Joey this vitamin supplement to reduce damage risk, you can protect Joey from these triggering events, or we can do an in vivo genetic change to one of the genes and replace it with the more common variant. The downside of BRCA4 is it increases Joey's chances of obesity, heart disease, and diabetes as well as these other risks. The upside of BRCA4 is this. We can medicate Joey to help his body and brain handle cortisol better, or we can do a one time gene fix. Because a gene fix is lifelong and this is not a life threatening gene, we generally do not do it before age 14 and never without the consent of the minor. The exception is if the minor contracts the Newman virus, which in combination with this gene can become life threatening, etc....."
The doctors will eventually have the information to refer to the specific damages and risks, instead of having a bazillion diagnoses that may be wrong, and to give parents and Joey enough information to make an informed decision. I also expect, on the basis of what we're already seeing, ethics laws governing a person's right to informed consent before his genome is changed, and banning major changes when the person is too young to personally consent except in cases like cystic fibrosis or Tay Sachs where time is of the essence.
Right now, we have a bazillion vague new diagnoses because science knows more about the brain and genetics, but doesn't know nearly enough.
When science knows more, some of Deborah's alternative treatments may be perfectly appropriate for patients with certain specific problems---just like phenylketoneurics get along just fine as long as they avoid phenylalanine.
BTW---phenylketoneuria and general paresis are two examples of specific things that made (sometimes still make) people dumb or crazy where we figured out what, specifically, was going on and were able to let people permanently avoid the problem. In the case of phenylketoneurics, a genetic problem that can be handled by diet, in the case of general paresis, a pathogen that you'd darned well better treat with drugs, regardless of the age of the patient with syphillis, and treat damned quickly.
I tend to think of ODD as a fake diagnosis, but being honest, it would be more accurate to say it's a useless and potentially harmful diagnosis. ODD is like the flu. It's a collection of symptoms that describes a specific problem in a not very useful way. How many different virii and bacteria start out with the same set of "cold and flu symptoms"? About a bazillion. It wasn't until we started being able to isolate specific strains and develop yearly vaccines against the major ones going around that year that we started having a really useful way to prevent the people most vulnerable to flu virii from catching one and dying of it.
We need more research to find out how many of these "ODD" kids have a medical problem, what different medical problems (probably) are causing similar symptoms, how those symptoms are manifesting in the body and brain, and therefore what different treatment options are most likely to help with the different problems at different ages. We also need to know enough to sort out which kids are choosing to behave badly from being spoiled rotten, and which kids have nothing wrong with them and got "diagnosed" because some parent, teacher, or doctor has an overactive imagination.
Doctors used to look at a kid with a broken arm and just see a kid with a broken arm. Now they look at the kid's arm and can see whether the break is a greenstick fracture or a spiral fracture. If it's the latter, they know to bring the parents up on charges.
Someday we may know enough about the brain and how genetics and environment interact to be able to sort out genetic risk, or viral damage, or damage from a conk on the head out playing, versus damage to the psyche caused by physical and emotional abuse.
We will almost certainly have different ways to most effectively treat those different kinds of damage.
When we know more about the brain, we'll be better able to tell how much environmental damage is less likely to be caused by deliberate parental abuse and more likely to be caused by the parents' own brain damage and the behavior arising from it.
It will never be perfect, but as we learn more about the brain and genetics and biology in general, it will get better.
We don't know enough.
I think the diagnosis of ODD is a flash in the pan springing from ignorance that will go into the freshman psychology textbooks as a cautionary tale about jumping the gun and assuming you know more than you do.
Julie
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ODD is a joke. It says... what, exactly? It's not even a diagnosis. It's a "Duh!"
Julie gets two extra points for the genetic modification. God help us all if they start using such techniques against the kids instead of for them, though...
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Wow Julie, great reply. The problem isn't so much the labels themselves, but the value people put to the labels. Any decent psychiatrist should know that ODD isn't a "real" diagnosis, just an easier way to describe a set of behaviors that are troubling to see in a child, especially when it comes to insurance paperwork. The real trouble are those professionals who think ODD is as real and concrete as our current understanding of schizophrenia is.
As a side note, you seem to know way more than I do about this stuff. I'd love it if you could share your expertise with CAFETY (if you aren't there already). Take care.
Brian
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Can someone explain/weigh in- is ODD:
A) a real disorder
B) a euphemism that is used when a kid is just a little shit
C) a cheap and cynical marketing tool for drug companies and the troubled teen industry to make big bicckies from kids who are having some real issues
D) any or all of the above
Discuss.
ODD is to be deleted from the next edition of the DSM. There's no single collection of behaviours or neurochemical triggers that characterise it. There's no coherent definition and it therefore ir does not meet the standards required of a diagnostic label. So the specifically answer your question, it would seem a little bit of b mixed with a lot of C
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It's an 'odd' acronym to be sure... :lol:
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There is no diagnostic test to prove that any mental 'disorder' exists. Dx is subjective, based on the observers perceptions. Shrinks get together and VOTE on which 'disorders/diseases' should be included in the DSM.
A little satire on the madness:
Introducing nine new made-up diseases for drug companies to exploit with
mind-altering drugs (satire)
Posted Sep 7, 2005 PT by the Health Ranger (Mike Adams)
http://www.newstarget.com/011506.html (http://www.newstarget.com/011506.html)
As the drug companies are running out of real diseases to boost their
pharmaceutical sales, they're increasingly inventing new, fictitious diseases in order to scare people into thinking they have some sort of disorder or dysfunction. Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is perhaps the best known fictitious disease invented to sell psychotropic drugs, but there are many other made-up diseases such as General Anxiety Disorder (GAD).
All this is headed to an obvious conclusion: every quirky or uncomfortable human behavior will soon be labeled a disease, and a medication will be quickly be dispensed to deal with that "disease." Of course, it may take the drug industry years to invent all these diseases, but you can bet they have teams of scientists working on that effort right now.
But why wait? I decided to pitch in and help the drug companies by listing
quirky human behaviors that deserve to be called diseases right now! There's hardly a person alive who hasn't exhibited one or more of these behaviors, meaning there's a huge untapped drug market out there for the taking!
So this is my goodwill deed for Big Pharma today: my list of human behaviors that should be diseases, but aren't. So far, at least.
(Note: some of these diseases are considered "real" by organized medicine! See if you can spot them...)
Refrigerator Door Disease (RDD)
This disease is characterized by standing in front of the refrigerator with the door wide open, staring blankly into a collection of fuzzy jars of grape jelly, half-eaten margarine tubs with bread crumbs, and something that used to resemble fresh fruit (but might actually be meatloaf). This disease strikes only at night, and is accompanied by light sensitivity that makes the refrigerator light seem ten times brighter than normal so that it pierces closed eyelids like the flashlight of God himself.
Language Obfuscation Disorder (LOD)
Striking mostly doctors, surgeons and oncologists, Language Obfuscation Disorder causes its victims to speak in unintelligible medi-babble while imagining their words make perfect sense. People afflicted with this disease literally speak in Greek, substituting normal-sounding English words (like "liver" and "inflamed") with words made of Greek elements ("hepato" and "itis" or just hepatitis.) Interestingly, two or more victims of LOD seem to be able to understand each other perfectly well, although no one else has any idea what they're saying.
Obsessive Hosiery Dislocation Disorder (OHDD)
OHDD is characterized by a frantic household search for the other sock of any given sock pairs. Victims of this disease, when finding only one sock from a pair, feel the universe has fallen into a state of great imbalance that can only be restored through the recovery of the missing sock. Victims may also become sock-dependent, whereby they repeatedly buy new socks in the hopes that sheer sock volume will make up for the universal imbalance caused by dislocated socks. In advanced stages, this disease causes people to safety-pin their socks together in the wash.
Commerce Anxiety Disorder (CAD)
Characterized by heightened worry over whether your credit card charge will be declined at the cash register, Commerce Anxiety Disorder afflicts primarily people under 35. Victims of CAD frequently experience sweaty palms and heart palpitations at any checkout counter, and they often carry three or four credit cards or debit cards in order to have a backup plan should one piece of plastic fail the transaction.
Repetitive Remote Disorder (RDD)
This devastating disease afflicts mostly males aged 15 - 35 and is characterized by rapid channel surfing of cable television using a remote control device. Victims of RDD can often flip through over 100 channels is less than one minute, spending just slightly over one-half second per channel to evaluate its programming. This near-subliminal exposure to channels of varied television programming can cause long-term damage to the retina and visual recognition system, leaving RDD victims in a permanent zombie-like state where they can no longer recognize anything other than brand logos or sports teams.
Obsessive Wardrobe Change Disorder (OWCD)
This fascinating disease afflicts mostly women and is characterized by the
incessant changing of clothing before a planned event (for which the victim is usually late). OWCD victims have been known to change clothes up to nine times before deciding on something to wear -- which is usually the initial item the victim tried on in the first place. Women with OWCD are often married to men with Repetitive Remote Disorder (RRD), which actually works out nicely because it gives the husband something to do while waiting for the OWCD victim to work out her wardrobe obsession.
Obsessive Disobedience Disorder (ODD)
This disease is characterized by a persistent distrust of authority figures,
including schoolteachers, government officials and often law enforcement figures as well. While most normal people have no trouble whatsoever in following orders (even seemingly ridiculous ones) from anyone displaying the symbols of authority, victims of ODD believe they alone have the right to think and make their own decisions. For obvious reasons, ODD people are dangerous to the balance and harmony of society, and they should all be medicated ("treated") as quickly as possible, for their own protection. (Did you guess this one? It's a "real" disorder currently being discussed by those in the psychiatric community!)
Repetitive Pocket Searching Syndrome (RPSS)
This frustrating condition is characterized by repeated searching of one's own pockets following the misplacement of some small item such as car keys. The victim of RPSS frantically and repeatedly searches the pockets of the clothes they are wearing, irrationally hoping that the missing object will somehow appear after the third or fourth search. When this proves futile, the RPSS victim will turn to yesterday's clothes and start searching those pockets. Additionally, pockets of jackets and coats will be desperately searched for the missing item. In extreme cases of RPSS, the person will search the pockets of other peoples' clothing.
Ultraviolet Light Tanning Dependent (UVLTD)
This disease results in an addiction to ultraviolet light, causing victims to
repeatedly sunbathe with the same zeal as crack addicts searching for their next fix. UVLTD sufferers feel an obsessive need for sunlight and cannot function without it. Some have even been known to capture sunlight in a syringe and shoot up on the beach. (Did you get this one? According to some in organized medicine, this is a real disease!)
Retarded Gait Disorder (RGD)
Afflicting mostly men, this disease only becomes apparent after a person trips on a crowded sidewalk or curb, then proceeds to act like they actually meant to trip by continuing to walk in retarded-like fashion that somewhat resembles the trip motion itself. It's as if the victim wants the world to think, "I always walk like an idiot. Therefore, I did not trip."
Traffic Light Anticipation Disorder (TLAD)
This condition affects both men and women, usually striking those who drive crappy cars held together by at least six yards of duct tape. Victims of TLAD are mentally incapable of grasping the meaning of red traffic lights. They think red lights indicate the driver should allow their vehicle to slowly creep forward into the intersection, sort of like a green light, but in slow motion.
(Author note: I once saw a TLAD person who creeped all the way to the center of the four-way intersection, and then figured, "Heck, I'm half-way, might as well get to the other side at this point..." So he floored it and just continued on.)
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::cheers:: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: :rofl:
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Language Obfuscation Disorder (LOD)
Striking mostly doctors, surgeons and oncologists, Language Obfuscation Disorder causes its victims to speak in unintelligible medi-babble while imagining their words make perfect sense. People afflicted with this disease literally speak in Greek, substituting normal-sounding English words (like "liver" and "inflamed") with words made of Greek elements ("hepato" and "itis" or just hepatitis.) Interestingly, two or more victims of LOD seem to be able to understand each other perfectly well, although no one else has any idea what they're saying.
:D This is also true for computer engineers... I live with one... and this cracks me up.
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My wife has this one:
Shoe Hording Disorder (SHD) -- This disorder affects some women between the ages of 14 and 55. It is characterized by an obsessive need to purchase and horde shoes of various styles and colors, including some that can only be worn with a single dress. This disorder can become so extreme, after literally dozens of pairs of shoes have been horded, that the woman's husband or male companion is forced to store his own clothes and shoes somewhere other than the "shared" closet.
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ODD= Our Doctor's Deluded
ODD= Opposing Dumb Doctors
ODD= Only Diagnosed by Dipshits
ODD= Over Diagnosed Disorder
[/list]
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I'd highly recommend homepathy to any parent or child. It works on the premise that our minds build our diseases and so it cuts through all of the mind crap (don't need no stinking psychiatrist or teen abuse facility) whether you want it to or not.
Homeopathic remedies have no side effects 'cept getting better. It's important to accurately match the remedy for the person's character and mindset (many remedies for one disease, only a particular remedy is right for a specific individual).
There are a few homeopathic physicians, but you can buy remedies at any good health food store. To self-prescribe, you'll need to do some research on the remedies and the disease:
http://www.hpathy.com/materiamedica/index.asp (http://www.hpathy.com/materiamedica/index.asp)
Or, even better yet is this Materia Medica book written by one of the earliest discoverers in the field (has much more than available online), Pocket Manual of Homeopathic Materia Medica and Repertory (Hardcover):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/812081 ... 05?ie=UTF8 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/8120811232/sr=8-1/qid=1156332967/ref=sr_1_1/102-4364470-5264105?ie=UTF8)
List of all remedies for purchase (not just the most common ones):
http://www.dataroad.net/cgi-bin/htmlos. ... _list.html (http://www.dataroad.net/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/081044.2.076394916618036790/hahnemannlabs.com/hstore/programs/remedy_list.html)
If the industry really cared about getting kids better, they'd be using all kinds of alternative treatments which are easier on the body, work better, and cheaper (oh, that's it, they don't want cheap, they want to suck all of the money they can out of the parents).
Chiropractic: I am an ex-chiro wife and have lived "alternatively" for nearly 25 years. When the nervous system has impingements, behaviors change. In our office, parents knew it was time to bring the kids in for an adjustment when they started not behaving and bouncing off the walls. Works every time.
Brain Gym: Simple and easy exercises that open blocked neuropathways so the brain can function properly. Do the exercises and you change (no mind games to play, it just works):
http://www.braingym.org/about.html (http://www.braingym.org/about.html)
Homeopathy and Herbs
Sorry, but I don't know of any remedies that help get new parents, however, maybe the parents can get themselves treated when they take their kid in.