Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Carey on January 30, 2003, 07:38:00 AM
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Why I Believe Dundee Ranch Academy
was the Wrong School
for My Twin Boys
Before I explain why Dundee Ranch Academy was the wrong school for my boys let me say that I am not in denial of the fact that my boys did need help and I am not in denial as to the fact that they still do today.
Here is my experience with Dundee and why I felt the need to pull my boys from this "program."
Read the rest: http://www26.brinkster.com/bs4/stories_dundee.htm (http://www26.brinkster.com/bs4/stories_dundee.htm)
[rescued from a very old cache]
Why I Believe Dundee Ranch Academy
was the Wrong School
for My Twin Boys
Before I explain why Dundee Ranch Academy was the wrong school for my boys let me say that I am not in denial of the fact that my boys did need help and I am not in denial as to the fact that they still do today.
Here is my experience with Dundee and why I felt the need to pull my boys from this "program."
When I found out my boys were sent to Dundee Ranch Academy in Costa Rica I was concerned. I began to do some independent information gathering. I wanted to make an informed decisions as to whether or not I was in an agreement with the program chosen and be sure that it had the resources necessary to help my boys. I first began reviewing the information provided on the Internet website for the WWASP schools and the website for Dundee itself. I followed that up by directly contacting the school. I emailed the director asking him to provide me with information on the school's employees. I wanted to know things like: where they had worked previously, how long they had worked with teens in crisis, how they were trained, what their specific credentials were and whether they did criminal background checks on all individuals who had contact with the teens. (The school does credit checks on the parents, why should parents not be able to have criminal background checks done on the employees?) The reply that I received back from the director at Dundee, Joe, was that he did not have time to provide me with that information. He suggested that I look again at Dundee's website. I explained to him that I needed information, and not just boiler plate information, but specific information on the individuals who worked with the boys on a day to day basis and who were responsible for their well-being. I believe as a parent it was not only my right to have access to this information but my responsibility. Needless to say, after many requests, I was never provided with any information from Joe.
I then heard a story about a very serious life threatening incident that occurred at Dundee. I heard that as a result of the incident there were employees who had been fired. I emailed Joe, the director, and Ken Kay to see if they could either confirm the incident or deny it. I asked them why certain employees were not longer employed by Dundee. Neither one would address my question. Why? Don't parents have a right to know? If there is an explanation why would they not be willing to provide it?
The next thing I did was to have my attorney get me a copy of the enrollment agreement that had been signed. The first thing that I noticed that did not seem right was that the cover page of the enrollment agreement stated that "if joint custody both parents must sign." Well my case is and was a joint custody case and yet I never signed anything. I had never even seen the agreement. Anyway, I began to read over it. What I gathered from reading the contract was that it was written to protect the school and all affiliates and not the teens. I decided to have it looked at by a licensed clinical social worker. I wanted the opinion of a professional. I took it to an individual who has worked with Boys Town for over 10 years. This individual has had experience working with at risk teens and the credentials necessary for providing a professional opinion. This is what was pointed out by this professional:
· By signing the agreement parents are signing over their right to what is known as in the States as "informed consent." (The right to be informed about all decisions relating to your child.)
· The staff employed by Dundee are not professionals. These individuals who are responsible for the health and well-being of the children do not have to be qualified, trained or certified to provide the types of services that at risk teens need.
· Teens were allowed to punish other teens. (Are these teens emotionally stable enough to punish other teens at lower levels? If so why are they still in the program? Wouldn't they or shouldn't they be able to go home if they are at a stage where they are emotionally stable enough to determine what is right or wrong for another student? Or, could it be that the students at higher level are cheap labor for the school?)
· The school is not licensed or regulated by any outside agency that has the ability/power to monitor the methods and techniques that are being used in the school. (That will likely change now that the local authorities know that the school is there and that there are children there.)
There were many other red flags noted in the enrollment agreement. These were the ones that were the most concerning for me.
Children have to be protected. Information is vital for making informed decisions. They should never be isolated and not allowed to contact their parents. Even if they are the "manipulators" the school claims them to be. I would think that the very parents who lived with them for the first 12-18 years of their lives would be able to determine whether or not their child is being manipulative. There is nothing more important than communication between parent and child, direct open communication that is uncensored. If my child wants to vent or complain, then let them do that, I am an adult and I will decide whether or not it is something I need to be concerned with. I do not need someone who is 26 years old with degree in economics who has never had kids of his own telling me that my kids are manipulating me and that I should not have contact with them.
Carey Bock
577 Cambronne St.
Mandeville,LA 70448
985-626-7488
Your Stories Main Menu
[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-03-23 09:42 ]
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Hi Carey,
Thanks for posting here. I hope this forum will eventually take off.
Denial? A need for help? I can't help but to be very, very dubious of that kind of talk. Just because a kid is messing up in some way does not mean they need professional help. The TOUGHLOVE crowd will always try and convince us that things are different today. But I really don't think the kids are different. They'll say things like "Well, he was arrested TWICE!!!" asif that's proof that the kid was deranged. But remember, folks, that 20 years ago, they didn't used to arrest kids just for being outside or place them under light surveilance just for talking with other kids who they were watching.
Yeah, things are different today, but it's not the kids, they just got here. They're only acting on the ques we give them.Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
--Anonymous
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Hi Antigen,
Maybe I should have said "in need of direction" in stead of in need of help. They are in no way in need of "residential behavior modification."
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Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse you. Is that how I came off? I apologize. I sort of meant the opposite. But cult lingo sort of brings out the warrior in me.
A mother's love and protection are NOT denial! There is no need for you to explain your need to rescue and protect your children from one of these prison camps.
What I really meant to say, and said badly aparently, is that you should not waste a single moment apologizing or making excuses or, far less, feeling guilty (guilty!) for looking after your sons. None of us are perfect. We all need guidance for our whole lives. I think that growing up is more about learning how to seek good guidance for ourselves than about not needing any.
You don't need to explain to us that your sons never deserved to be tortured and punished and never needed to be reprogramned. I think it's safe to say that each and every one of us who survived one of these programs (and I'm pretty sure that most were nowhere near as hard as the WWASP programs) can remember daydreaming about our friends and family doing just what you have done for your boys. Sadly, very few ever actually saw that dream come true.
To seek out the best through the whole Union, we must resort to the information which from the best of men, acting disinterestedly and with the purest motives, is sometimes incorrect.
Thomas Jefferson Letter to Elias Shipman and others of New Haven, July 12, 1801.
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On 2003-01-30 04:38:00, Carey wrote:
"Why I Believe Dundee Ranch Academy
was the Wrong School
for My Twin Boys
Before I explain why Dundee Ranch Academy was the wrong school for my boys let me say that I am not in denial of the fact that my boys did need help and I am not in denial as to the fact that they still do today.
so the boys did need help. you didn't deny that. and they still need help. do you have any suggestions for any good programs in today real world? i'd just like to know this for the future of our son sake.
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WWASP blows Jamaican dicks...
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just a post I think is worth looking at from some one who knows.....Posted: 2004-02-19 09:21:00
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Brainwashed? So let me get this straight, do you think that they "brainwashed" me into "forgetting all the abuse"?!?! You apparently didn't listen on my post when I stated that program kids say what they want to. I have almost been out for as long as I was in there, and so you'd think that the chemicals they used to brain wash me would have worn off by now. Dundee is a past chapter in my life; the only reason I respond to these damned things is because you people choose to be so damn ignorant. I'm telling you, you'd all make great candidates for weekly world news customers. As far as brainwashed goes-- we have two ways to look at things in life- positively or negatively. 6 months before I went to the program my brother got in a car wreck and my best friend was in the vehicle and died. He was the closest person that I had ever lost. Being in the program, I realized that sometimes life deals you a shitty hand, and you have to work with it. Those of us who actually tried to help ourselves out when we were in the program realized that we could make dundee whatever we wanted it to be: good or bad. For me it was all a big adventure. For some kids it was hell, and that's because they decided to feel that way about it-- not because they were abused. Dundee was the toughest episode of my life by far, but because of it I went from being a school drop-out to majoring in engineering at virginia tech with a 3.8. It gave me a chance to get off of drugs. A CHANCE. It was totally up to me whether or not I did anything when I got back- thats why they don't guarantee anything. If they really could brainwash us, then maybe there would be some gurantees; but we have free wills about deciding what we do, just as well as we have them about deciding what we say. You can't stop me from saying something that I want to. It makes me sick that you ignorant people actually believe that you are fighting for some type of just cause here.
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Yep, if it looks like shit, it prolly is...sounds like program-speak to me..from the mind of the recently discharged. Try a little harder there, WWASP scum. :rofl:
Funny how when the shit hits the fan, and someone starts bumoing MEANINGFUL posts to the top, that you WWASP assholes have to come and try to defend yourselves...
I've planted a bomb in your car. Your refrigerator's running. There's a dead horse in your bed. Your mommie's calling you...the train's leaving..woo woo... :rofl:
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What a joke you are. Can I call you WWASPIE?
spammer1
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Shut up F-13 ....
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Shut up, spammer2...toughguy. You're a big weenie.. :lol:
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I agree entirely; I don't think you should feel guilty at all about getting your kids out of what you thought was a really dangerous situation. It was really brave and it shows how much you love them. In fact, I would like to applaud all of you who are fighting for whom you believe cannot protect ourselves, or might be afraid to- its a really valiant thing that you are doing. I dunno, I just think that the biggest problem is a misunderstanding... I mean, I honestly believe you guys would be able to rest a lot easier if you would believe what I have to say about Dundee. Hell, for all you know I am just a manipulator trying to cover something up. I really wish you would open up, though.
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I am not sure if you were referring to what I had to say in the post, but it's hardly shit. I think that the base to the truth of this entire matter lies in the kids that went through it. That would be me. If you are going to fight on the sides of the kids who went there, then you should listen to me because I'M ONE OF THEM. As far as me being recently discharged-- I wasn't discharged. I didn't "serve my time" and leave. I pushed and struggled and through sweat and tears got myself out of there. If you think that makes me WWASP scum, then you are very wrong. Your indifference of what I have to say shows me that you have gotten so lost in your cause that you no longer remember who you are doing it for, you just know that you should attack anyone who doesn't think that we should point fingers at dundee.
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christopher, we are all happy that you had a good experience with wasp, ok? what we are not happy about (and i'm not just talking about dundee), is what you, in your own words, have asked us to focus on, the kids. I have personal experience with the program. What I have heard about the program is very contrary to what you say about the program. Ok? So, why dont you go to your dundee website where all the wasp people talk about how great you all are? Ok? because the people on this board are people who have been hurt, in very profound, and quite frankly, digusting ways, by the program. why dont you get on isaccorp.com website and look at the wasp crimes report, Christopher. Then ask yourself, could all of those people, and all of that evidence (videos, photos, sworn statements, etc. etc. overwhelming amount of evidence), all be false. The evidence will speak for itself. Ok? You ask us to understand you, right? so why dont you just run along and talke to people who just love that effing program, go be your happy little smug self somewhere they speak your programmed language b/c you'll finally find someone who agrees with you, which is obviously what you are seeking, validation/rationalization of your experience :wave: .
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yo you guys wanna rag on christopher but your just bitchin cuz hes doing good and you guys are stuck on fuckin crack. i went to dundee and it was fuckin hell but changed my life forever and met some of my best friends and coolest people there. you people have no life if all you do is sit here and bitch. try solving the problems rather then making them. they started these programs to help kids and if you dont like it start your own fuckin program. life is good and people like you are what bring down the usa. I aint sayin im the best kid or im gonna be the next president but i am sayin i know myself and will stand for me and what i believe in. also i think being there i have a lot more to say then you people who read or heard from a kid who didnt have to balls to stand up and finish the shit. why dont you go visit a place and tell me what the fuck is up. quit being pussies. Pura Vida y coma merda puta. Nick
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speaking of twins? are you talkin about geoff and garred because i hope they are doing good and they were 2 of my best friends there and i only thing i have heard are things in magazines so my prayers are with them. Nick
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Fine, then, if the problem is the kids then why in the hell are you focusing so much on wwasp? Why don't you just take all of your kids and go and get them therapy or something. What do you want, money? The sweet taste of revenge? Maybe if all of these kids had actually spent time learning to use what the program had taught them, then they would know how to deal with what they are going through. When I was 16 years old, I was raped by a 45 year old man. Do you have any fucking idea how I used to feel about that? No matter what I do, or what I say, or what I think, I can never go back and change the fact that it happened. I can sit and think that I am less because of it, and that I have been damaged, and that now I am unable or uncapable, and then I could go into my own little fucking hole and cry to myself. But no- I am stronger than that. I have been trying to help you understand more because of my experience, but I surrender. You are victims. You can blame and point fingers and cry all you want to, but sooner or later you are going to have to pick your shit up off the floor and move on with life, because it passes like the blink of an eye. I am not sure how old you are, but I consider your verbal attacks extremely immature. There is no communicating going on here.
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I DONT THINK WASP IS GREAT
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On 2004-02-19 18:15:00, Christopher Riner wrote:
"Fine, then, if the problem is the kids then why in the hell are you focusing so much on wwasp?
Because WWASP is the one doing the damage to the kids idiot.
Why don't you just take all of your kids and go and get them therapy or something.
Because some of us believe in actually parenting our children ourselves. Novel idea, I know...but you should try it sometime, it works. And don't tell me I don't know what it's like to have an out of control teen in the house. I've had two and somehow we made it through without the 'benefit' of a program. Not to say that we didn't need and seek help, just not the sadistic, twisted version WWASP offers up.
What do you want, money? The sweet taste of revenge? Maybe if all of these kids had actually spent time learning to use what the program had taught them, then they would know how to deal with what they are going through.
Funny you should mention learning to use what the program taught me. Notice some of the verbal attacks that sometimes border on verbal abuse???? TAKE A FUCKING GUESS WHERE WE ALL LEARNED THAT ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!!!! As far as what the program taught me in dealing with my own kids.....well, it DID teach me quite a bit about everything NOT to do with/to them.
When I was 16 years old, I was raped by a 45 year old man. Do you have any fucking idea how I used to feel about that?
Yeah, think I have a clue. It happened to me when I was 7.
No matter what I do, or what I say, or what I think, I can never go back and change the fact that it happened. I can sit and think that I am less because of it, and that I have been damaged, and that now I am unable or uncapable, and then I could go into my own little fucking hole and cry to myself.
True, it can't be changed but it WILL affect me for the rest of my life....just like the 'treatment' I got for a drug problem I did NOT have when I went in.
But no- I am stronger than that. I have been trying to help you understand more because of my experience, but I surrender. You are victims. You can blame and point fingers and cry all you want to, but sooner or later you are going to have to pick your shit up off the floor and move on with life, because it passes like the blink of an eye. I am not sure how old you are, but I consider your verbal attacks extremely immature. There is no communicating going on here. "
Fuck off....we HAVE moved on with our lives, but some of us are finally finding people that understand what we went through for the FIRST TIME IN OUR FUCKING LIVES SO BACK THE FUCK OFF. There's one more reason for us to keep trying to shut these mind rape mills.......there are still kids going through exactly what we went through and we're not going to stand for it....PERIOD.Freedom has a thousand charms to show, That slaves, howe'er contented, never know.
William Cowper, a British Christian poet & hymn writer (18th century)
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/bump...sorry, Frod..
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/bump :nworthy: :cool:
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Haha, someone obviously has never dealt with their emotional baggage :cry2: Well whatever man, you didn't understand thing I said. ¿quieres que te lo digo en español? And by the way, I don't know a damn thing about parenting I'm not a parent. You are at the world's control. You let events control your life and how you feel.
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On 2004-02-19 21:06:00, Christopher Riner wrote:
"Haha, someone obviously has never dealt with their emotional baggage :cry2:
This is exactly the kind of compassion kids can expect from the programs.
Well whatever man, you didn't understand thing I said. ¿quieres que te lo digo en español?
yeah, why don't you tell me in Spanish. moron :roll:
And by the way, I don't know a damn thing about parenting I'm not a parent. You are at the world's control. You let events control your life and how you feel."
No, I'm at MY control now. I used to be in the control of people like you, but now I just pity you. I'm entitled to the anger that I have. I fucking EARNED it. Outside of trying to shut down these programs, I lead a very easy-going, contented life. If I get heated about kids still being abused the way I was, Oh well. God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
--Voltaire (1694-1778)
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Alright, I think there is a little confusion. Let's stop bitching at each other. What program did you go to? I went to Dundee in Costa Rica from 02-03. The reason I am telling you that is because for some reason, when reading your posts, I kind of get to the conclusion that maybe you haven't read the posts where I said that (you thought I was a parent and stuff).
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that anon post was from me, btw
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No, I didn't think you were a parent. I read the thread. I had a problem with what you were saying about us needing to just get over it and move on with our lives. If WWASPs didn't effect you the way it has other people, fine.....but it very obviously has effected the lives of quite a few people in some very devastating ways and they've got a right to their anger. HERE is one of the few places they can express that to others who have gone thru the same thing, whether you did or not.
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woops, sorry...the above post was me.
"One commentator pointed out that when the mafia commits violence, no
one suggests we bomb Sicily. Today it seems we are, in a symbolic way, not only bombing "Sicily," but are thinking about bombing "Athens" (Iraq)."
Ron Paul, 11/29/01 Speech before Congress
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Right on, now we are communicating. It really does help me to understand more of where you guys are coming from when we get past the bickering and name calling. When I came to this forum, I wanted to bring a little understanding, and now I see that I have been getting riled up just because I wasn't abused there. So tell me your opinions about what you would like happen to WWASP- do you want them out of business, out of commission, incarcerated? I honestly want to know because I think if a few of us can get deeper into this issue then we can find closure on the whole thing a lot sooner. I personally, think that a fair medium between both sides resides somewhere in the reconstruction of WWASP under closer government supervision, and with the parents more aware of how strict the rules are and whatnot: because many parents don't agree with all of the strict rules, but for my family and me, it was the best way to learn. Tell me your thoughts.
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On 2004-02-20 10:20:00, Christopher Riner wrote:
"Right on, now we are communicating. It really does help me to understand more of where you guys are coming from when we get past the bickering and name calling. When I came to this forum, I wanted to bring a little understanding, and now I see that I have been getting riled up just because I wasn't abused there. So tell me your opinions about what you would like happen to WWASP- do you want them out of business, out of commission, incarcerated? I honestly want to know because I think if a few of us can get deeper into this issue then we can find closure on the whole thing a lot sooner. I personally, think that a fair medium between both sides resides somewhere in the reconstruction of WWASP under closer government supervision, and with the parents more aware of how strict the rules are and whatnot: because many parents don't agree with all of the strict rules, but for my family and me, it was the best way to learn. Tell me your thoughts."
What I want:
I want each kid to get mail freely from anyone from day one, every week--three first class stamps and envelopes and paper and a pen to write to anyone they choose. I want social services addresses for reporting abuse and appealing determinations clearly posted where all students can see them.
Why I want it:
You can't induce Stockholm Syndrome without isolation. It stops bad schools from substituting Stockholm Syndrome and cult dissociation (it implants a false "acceptable" personality on top of the teen's own) for effective treatment. It's the preventive measure that's least disruptive of any real and responsible therapeutic process.
What I'd accept as a limit on it:
If the parent can reasonably substantiate to a caseworker that the kid's relationship with the letter writer was or is sexual, that correspondent can be barred. If the parent alleges a correspondent is a drug abuser, the correspondent has X time from notification to take a drug test at a hospital, if the test is clean the correspondent stays uncensored--dirty, that correspondent can be barred. Three false accusations, total, and the parent loses the right to make the claim of "druggies." The parent can ask that mail to or from convicted felons or juveniles convicted of delinquent offenses be barred.
What else I want:
Each school to have a state social services case worker assigned. Each student to have their assignment to a TBS reviewed within 72 hours by said caseworker to determine if the kid has a problem requiring residential treatment. If the kid doesn't, he goes home *unless* he chooses to attend the TBS. *If* he chooses to attend the TBS, *that* kid is free to leave and go home at any time (school doesn't have to take him back later, though). If the parents won't take him, social services should treat it like any other case of child abandonment.
What else I want:
Social services to investigate all allegations of abuse and do a certain minimum number of thorough surprise inspections each year.
What else I want:
All staff who would restrain a patient/student/inmate in an emergency trained in application of those restraints and alternate techniques of resolution (restraints are always a risk to the patient's life, for various reasons I won't get into here), and trained by an accredited service/program *not* affiliated with the TBS.
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I don't want to shut all TBS's down. I want quality controls and external oversight to protect the basic rights and long-term mental health of the teen and ensure quality of care.
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.
--H.L. Mencken
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Your ideas definitely sound negotiable. Is stockholm syndrome like an isolation-induced medical condition? If it is, then that would probably have a good chance of holding up in court if you want to have the mail policies changed. These rights' cases can carry a pretty fuzzy line between the two parties, though. If they were to approve of that, then would that make parents unable to stop there kids from barring phone calls at home, who had nothing to do with the program? My personal experience with mail in the program wasn't EXTREMELY frustrating, but then again my parents would send mail out to most of my friends, when I would send it to them. I don't know much about S.S., but if I were to assume, I would think that as long as the kids have SOME communication, they would not have a strong enough sense of isolation to really be in any danger. Maybe there could be a standard for a set amount of minimum contacts- whatever can be proven to be safe or whatever. The idea of controlled mail does serve a good purpose- as a parent, I am sure that you understand the influence that other kids have on one another. I think more phone calls w/ parents would definitely be nothing but instrumental for the children. I still believe they shouldn't be with held from the student having to work for them, but perhaps maybe not quite so much. I didn't speak to my parents on the phone until my 5th month day in the program, and after that, I never felt like I was quite as distant or disconnected with them (costa rica definitely feels like its another planet away).
Other than that, I agree a lot with what you say about haing social services very involved, and having random visits every month or so. They did have Costa Rican child welfare services (PANI?) come by with random visits, but it never really settled everyone's suspicion- they never found enough to shut it down (until whatever happened with the riots there). They always thought that the school would just put on an act for a day or something. A big factor is how comfortable the parents are with their kid across the country/world: I think a closer relationship between officials and the schools would really be able to help parents rest easy- as well as keep fishy things from going on. But no matter how many visits/checkups to the school, there will still be small margins which will allow large amounts of suspicion to form. I think the best way to handle that situation would be to have at least one (government) official on grounds at all times.
oh yeah, you didn't mention what program you were in :???:
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I really need to start remembering to log in....
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On 2004-02-20 14:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Your ideas definitely sound negotiable. Is stockholm syndrome like an isolation-induced medical condition? If it is, then that would probably have a good chance of holding up in court if you want to have the mail policies changed. These rights' cases can carry a pretty fuzzy line between the two parties, though. If they were to approve of that, then would that make parents unable to stop there kids from barring phone calls at home, who had nothing to do with the program? My personal experience with mail in the program wasn't EXTREMELY frustrating, but then again my parents would send mail out to most of my friends, when I would send it to them. I don't know much about S.S., but if I were to assume, I would think that as long as the kids have SOME communication, they would not have a strong enough sense of isolation to really be in any danger. Maybe there could be a standard for a set amount of minimum contacts- whatever can be proven to be safe or whatever. The idea of controlled mail does serve a good purpose- as a parent, I am sure that you understand the influence that other kids have on one another. I think more phone calls w/ parents would definitely be nothing but instrumental for the children. I still believe they shouldn't be with held from the student having to work for them, but perhaps maybe not quite so much. I didn't speak to my parents on the phone until my 5th month day in the program, and after that, I never felt like I was quite as distant or disconnected with them (costa rica definitely feels like its another planet away).
Other than that, I agree a lot with what you say about haing social services very involved, and having random visits every month or so. They did have Costa Rican child welfare services (PANI?) come by with random visits, but it never really settled everyone's suspicion- they never found enough to shut it down (until whatever happened with the riots there). They always thought that the school would just put on an act for a day or something. A big factor is how comfortable the parents are with their kid across the country/world: I think a closer relationship between officials and the schools would really be able to help parents rest easy- as well as keep fishy things from going on. But no matter how many visits/checkups to the school, there will still be small margins which will allow large amounts of suspicion to form. I think the best way to handle that situation would be to have at least one (government) official on grounds at all times.
oh yeah, you didn't mention what program you were in :???: "
It only takes three days to induce Stockholm Syndrome. I understand the concerns about influence of peers, but allowing mail is the *least* intrusive way to neutralize one of the preconditions for induction of the syndrome.
I wasn't in a program. I could have been. I would have had no rights, and placement in a program probably would have killed me. I have bipolar II disorder, which (last time I checked) has the distinction of being the mental illness most likely to end in suicide. Fortunately, I respond well to medication, but I *would* have suicided in a program. Guaranteed. There are ways, even on suicide watch, and I already knew plenty of them---they were my safety net in case something like a program did happen to me, so I wouldn't have to live through it.
Fortunately, I respond well to medication and am more normal than most "normal" people provided I don't get in a situation where some idiot could keep me from taking it. Which, thank god, is highly unlikely.
I have a degree in psychology from a nationally ranked school, and I had an experience of someone being sent to a program who should never have been accepted into one.
I'm not against residential treatment, just *bad* residential treatment, insufficient safeguards to ensure quality, and no checks on the system to keep parents from warehousing kids for trivial reasons.
If you were doing coke, if I had been the person making the call, I would have considered you a solid candidate for residential treatment.
The other kid I spoke of above wasn't in need of residential treatment, in my opinion, from everything I was able to find out (which was a hell of a lot).
My problem with that situation isn't so much that the kid is in residential treatment. It's that there was no competent disinterested party anywhere in the pipeline deciding whether the kid needed to be there or not.
In your case, letters to and from non-active-user non-convict friends, family members, neighbors, etc., would have only served to make the adjustment to being clean at home smoother and more likely to "take"---by giving you the experience of interacting with those folks clean and sober.
One of the reasons substance abuse treatment sometimes fails is the patient gets used to being clean in the treatment environment, but gets home and is used to being trashed in interactions with the people in his life. Encourage letters, and the patient is going to get home with some experience of interacting with the people in his life *while sober*---which can only help in the ongoing effort to build the habit of the healthy, fun, coping kind of sobriety at home.
Oh, I also, naturally, have no problem with censoring harrassment or threats of violence, whether incoming or outgoing, and any incoming letters that are basically emotionally abusive towards the patient. If it's jerking the patient around and making him/her feel like crap, any psychiatrist worth his salt would be well within professional ethics to stop that incoming letter.
I believe if you fix the isolation, fix admissions criteria based on the parents' need for a cashectomy and fix the lack of oversight, the industry will have a shakeout where the programs with problems will either shape up or go under.
It's not that residential treatment is *never* needed or has to be done badly----it's just that it's (mostly) being done badly *now* and needs to be cleaned up.He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
--Albert Einstein
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We are focusing on wasp b/c we don't like child abusers
dont try to tell me about therapy, you little snot, it it took alot of therapy to deal with the whole Wasp experience unless you believe in their sort of therapy which makes a person feel unwanted/unloved by their family so much so that they would send you somewhere that teaches you that you are "damaged goods" and a piece a shit for skipping school and being depressed. real therapy is not humiliation. REAL THERAPISTS DONT JUDGE! i'm sure you know that in all your wisdom, if you don't, pick up a psychology book and give yourself a little education.
here's another example of wasp therapy/help: chew on this for a while
if, while you were there CR, someone threatened to do to you what that sick fucking 45 yr old man who deserves to be casterated did to you, is that thereapy? Would that have changed your opinion of how much Wasp "helped" you? b/c it sure change my opinion. i call that mental abuse. i think a child has a right to feel safe while in bed to rest, of all places.
did you want to blame and point your finger at the sick fuck who did that to you, or just get on with your life, or did you want him to be held responsible, perhaps you wanted to make sure he wouldn't do that to anyone else? Well, we want people to be held responsible for their actions and we want to make sure those people who behave in this way are stopped.
if, on the other hand, wasp did in fact make you want to crawl in a little fucking hole and cry to yourself, when you never wanted to do that BEFORE you went to wasp prison, would that change your opinion? probaby not, programmed people have their own ingrained version of morality and values.
i am going to pick the shit up off the floor when the people who have victimized others are help responsible for what they have done.
yes, christopher, i am 35 yrs old, i realize how fast life goes by, alot more so i believe than you do. which is why people should be able to live their short little lives without being mentally and physically tortured. so glad you had such a "life changing" experience! Goody for you!
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I'd like to comment on one thing here.
Chris, I have seen you and others who support the program talk about how the people at the program *sometimes* care more about the kids than their own parents.
Granted, this might occasionally be true. Some people are not hitting on much in the parent department; and they may be prone to dumping the kids in such places as the program.
But what concerns me; is the way the kids are *Universally* told their parents don't care about them; don't want to see them; don't want to talk to them; and even hate them; by the program staffers.
This seems to be part of the overall method used to break their minds ('snapping')for modification.
Keep in mind; all the while, the parents are being fed the message that this is the very best; the most loving most caring thing they could possibly do for their child. Life saving and nothing less.
Of corse, for the program to work, you must trust the program, and do as they say; which means you don't talk to your kid until they've earned the right to talk to you. You don't visit for the same reason; you are advise to let them know you are working your program and moving on with your life to encourage them to do the same; And to help re-enforce this message, they are told to take a vacation and send a post card telling the kid how much fun their having and how glad they are the kid aint there.
You might notice, all of this feeds into and re-enforces the message the kids get that Ma & Pa don't give a shit about them.
Just plain evil as far as I'm concerned.
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Yeah, I agree with Karen.
:rofl:
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yes, just plain evil is right.
and not exactly "theraputic" at that.
understanding, encouragment, enlightenment, education, these are some helpful concepts. humiliation, degradation, NOT HELPFUL
no. 1, If the "school" was actually a "school", that would have been helpful, and many would have benefited from my son's presence there and he could have benefited, rather than him getting all fucked up in the head from being there.
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that was me, i forgot to login.
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Warrior Princess, when is holding WWASPS accountable going to be a reality? Today, tomorrow, never? What's holding up the direct-action lawsuit? Nobody seems to want to answer that question except to say "these things take time". Well, it has been nearly a year (May) since Masry (Huron/Masry) announced they would be filing a massive class-action lawsuit and seeking cease-and-desist orders. I think people should be more forthcoming on what's going on instead of playing games.
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anon, why dont you call mr. wilf at huron and ask him yourself. huron is not the only legal conduit there is available. raising awareness is a start. i recently read a metro times article where they chronicled a teacher, beginning in the early 70's had been molesting children .
repeatedly over the course of over 25yrs, they stepped forward and made school officials aware of what had been happening to them. this person was verbally reprimanded several times, sealed warnings were placed in his employee file. and the children were discounted and sent back to his class, HIS CLASS. when there was too much heat at one school, he was sent on. and from school to school in the district the reports of molestation came in. the schools he was sent to were not warned of the allegations against him. now there is a 7 million judgment against the school for letting this person continue to work with children. its so inconceivable. yet there it was in black and white, and evnetually by the perputrator's own admission, what he had done.
people refuse to believe what is undesirable or are just too damn lazy to do something about it. he told them, if you tell, i will kill you, hurt your family, etc. the usual things molesters say. year after year, he got away with it.
i believe i used the analogy of the civil rights movement in an earlier post, and the moral of the story in another to try to explain this matter. how people "get away" with their imoral behavior.
i'm not playing games with anyone. i am just trying to raise an awareness to the reality that these things do happen, and ask people to investigate or explore how and what can be done.
huron is certainly not the only attorney in the world. if you don't like how they are proceeding with your case, you should maybe get another attorney. i don't know what they are doing out there.
gina,
from michigan
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Thanks Gina, but I wasn't saying you are the one playing games. There is a group of people who since day one, have been promising this direct-action-lawsuit was for real and urging people to contact them or the Huron Group. Now they say WWASPS has met with the Huron Group and that this information (that the lawsuit is moving forward) is public knowledge. Only problem is, they refuse to provide any documentation (facts) to support their claim, leading me to conclude some people are more interested in playing games than "being real".
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if the complaint was filed, its a matter of finding out with which court it was filed, going to the court and requesting to look at the file. unfortunately for me, michigan is a far cry from california.
gina
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BTW,
This happens to be a very interesting thread. My thanks to whomever bumped it up to the top. I'm debating whether or not to bust out the first anon poster. Some of you would shit a brick if you only knew who it was saying these things just a year ago. But I'm not sure it would be legal or ethical to do that, or that it wouldn't do more harm to ppl's expectation of privacy and anonymity than any potential good. I really have to think about it some more. Any thoughts, anybody?A free people ought...to be armed...
George Washington, 1790
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On 2003-08-11 18:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2003-01-30 04:38:00, Carey wrote:
"Why I Believe Dundee Ranch Academy
was the Wrong School
for My Twin Boys
Before I explain why Dundee Ranch Academy was the wrong school for my boys let me say that I am not in denial of the fact that my boys did need help and I am not in denial as to the fact that they still do today.
so the boys did need help. you didn't deny that. and they still need help. do you have any suggestions for any good programs in today real world? i'd just like to know this for the future of our son sake."
Ginger, is the Anon whose post you are referring to?
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My thanks to whomever bumped it up to the top.
That was me, $pammer1. (I called myself that because people kept complaining that my thread bumping was SPAM. Whatever..) Check my IP, and I'll bet you'll figure out who I am..hehehe..
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Anon writes:
"so the boys did need help. you didn't deny that. and they still need help. do you have any suggestions for any good programs in today real world? i'd just like to know this for the future of our son sake."
----------------------------------------------
Who is the poster? My guesses:
(1) Carey's ex? (e.g.future of "our" son's sake)
(2) A WWASPIE?
(3) A PUREE and/or TREKKER?
If it is someone that appears to fit the profile of Guess #2 or Guess #3, then I'd say the poster should have hit the edit button awhile ago if they didn't want this post to come back and haunt them later?
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On 2004-02-22 12:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Anon writes:
"so the boys did need help. you didn't deny that. and they still need help. do you have any suggestions for any good programs in today real world? i'd just like to know this for the future of our son sake."
----------------------------------------------
Who is the poster? My guesses:
(1) Carey's ex? (e.g.future of "our" son's sake)
(2) A WWASPIE?
(3) A PUREE and/or TREKKER?
If it is someone that appears to fit the profile of Guess #2 or Guess #3, then I'd say the poster should have hit the edit button awhile ago if they didn't want this post to come back and haunt them later? "
The more I read this post, the more perplexed I am b/c to me, the post on it's face, appears to be a set-up of some sort. Second, what the hell does the poster mean by "today's (apostrophy added) real world"? How bizarre is that?
:scared:
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Lemme know if any of these guesses are in the ballpark, if not, I'll have to admit I don't have a clue.
:silly:
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There was not a single time that I can recall when I was told that my parents didn't love me. I knew that my parents were dying to talk to me on the phone and come and visit me just as bad as I wanted to see them- I don't think any kid understands how much more their parents love him then they, until they finally have kids of their own. Even if the staff did tell me that my parents didn't want to see me, I would have never believed them. Yeah, it would have been pretty mean if they would have said that- btw, did you have a kid at Dundee? If you did, then tell them I said what's up. I don't think I had a single enemy there with any of the other kids (even though I was an upper level for a while), and if you rkid knows me then I would love to catch up with them about whats going on.
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Hey Chris, welcome to Fornits. Not sure if you have an opinion, but thought I'd ask anyway. Have you heard about the possible direct-action lawsuit against WWASPS and what do you think about it? Also, what do you think of the info on the ISAC website? I am not involved with either organization, BTW, just interested in hearing different opinions from people (especially former students) who have first-hand experience, such as yourself.
http://www.isaccorp.com (http://www.isaccorp.com)
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I don't know anything about the suits going on or whatnot. I will read the document you have posted around 4:30 today (east coast) when I get back from class.
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On 2004-02-25 07:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't know anything about the suits going on or whatnot. I will read the document you have posted around 4:30 today (east coast) when I get back from class."
Give it a break...it's a "threatened" lawsuit with nothing to back it up but big mouths and a big agenda to make wwasps look really bad. The threat is enough. ISAC...their sicko's that think they need to stick their noses into parents choices and write garbage that is what dreams are made of...bad dreams. But, you're a smart kid, it won't take long to figure it out.
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their sicko's that think they need to stick their noses into parents choices and write garbage that is what dreams are made of...bad dreams
This hardly even makes sense.. Tell me, were you schooled in a WWASP facility? :rofl: :rofl:
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Some wasp lover says:
Give it a break...it's a "threatened" lawsuit with nothing to back it up but big mouths and a big agenda to make wwasps look really bad.
Its no longer a threat or a theory, but a fact.
There are plenty of plaintiffs who have signed agreements of representation from the Huron Law group.
I theorize, more will follow.
Not myself being one of the attorneys; or yet a plaintiff; I don't know for sure how it is going to play out. Could be another case of a settlement being quietly reached, with no press conferences or other fun things like that; but personally, I'd like to see it get contentious and the lawyers get frisky, with a lot of debating on CNN and such. But alas, I have no say.
And I have to tell you friend, wasp needs no help looking really bad. They manage that very well all on their own.
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And I have to tell you friend, wasp needs no help looking really bad. They manage that very well all on their own.
As 'Kelso' on "That 70's Show" would say...
Oooooooohh! Burn!!! :lol: