Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Deborah on July 28, 2006, 10:55:28 AM
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Deborah on July 28, 2006, 10:55:28 AM
Lichfield/Dundee in the News http://www.aldia.co.cr/ad_ee/2006/julio ... les11.html (http://www.aldia.co.cr/ad_ee/2006/julio/22/nacionales11.html)
Translation by Altavista 22 of 2006 July They will judge its owner, Narvin Lichfield Mónica Umaña D. monicau@aldia.co.cr The owner of the Academy Farm Dundee, Narvin Lichfield, will go in opinion in September, defendant of presumed deprivation of freedom, coaction and tortures, informed the press office of the Court.
The American will be judged from the 26 to the 29 of next September, in the Court of Judgment of Alajuela, because she is related to him to supposed punishments committed in damage of minor, that were committed in that academy. Without permissions Apparently, the Dundee Farm did not count on the permissions of the PANI. There they lived, at least, 200 minor foreigners.
This case was investigated by Al Dia in May of the 2003, when the authorities closed the academy and sent to the students from return to their countries. By this investigation, that same year Al Dia gained the Prize the International of Journalism King of Spain.
It is presumed that the minors were isolated in the Academy, in degrading conditions, where a member of the personnel tortured them in diverse parts of the body until reducing them to the impotence. In addition, apparently to the victims it was not allowed them to communicate with his companions or their relatives who were in the United States.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on July 28, 2006, 01:05:17 PM
Finally.
He should be hanged after a fair trial.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on July 28, 2006, 03:00:10 PM
Does anybody remember when Narvin let a reporter in from Inside Edition (I think that's where he was from)? Anyway, he's trying to defend himself on the allegations.....and they go to a dorm room that is no bigger then one of the guest bedrooms at my house, and there are bunk beds stacked 3 tall, and there were 5 of them......and the reporter is like WOW! Tight quartes here......wait weren't you told you could only have a maximum of 12 students in here???? And Narvin said yes, the reporter is like I count 15 beds? I can't remember exactly what was said, but you could tell that he was not being honest, and that he trying to cover up. It was a moment that cannot be forgotten.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Deborah on July 28, 2006, 03:41:23 PM
The response I remember is that even though there were 15 beds, there were only ever 12 kids in there. That's about the time I wanted the reported to say, "well let's go ask the kids".' funny how that would have been seen as rude or inappropriate, yet the kids can be subjected to all manner of disrespect on a daily basis.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on July 28, 2006, 03:51:56 PM
Anybody have that link? To the video? You're right Deborah, I just would love to see that part again. Sometimes, I am too sympathetic, or give people the benefit of the doubt . I need to not be that way, I know, I know.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on July 28, 2006, 08:38:31 PM
How soon are we going to see the rest of the family prosecuted?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on July 31, 2006, 02:20:38 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
How soon are we going to see the rest of the family prosecuted?
Who cares? What's significant is for the first time, a WWASPS program owner is going on trial for abuse.
That's news in and of itself, which can't be good for WWAWPS, the industry at large and the referral companies who help fill all these programs (not just WWASPS a point which has been made but bears repeating). HLA, Whitmore, CEDU, Aspen Educational Services (or whatever it's called), MMS, Kids Peace, KHK, the list is very long and stretches back further than when WWASPS first came on the scene in the late 80's.
I'm just sorry Su Flowers passed away. She played a big role in this. I hope her daughter is aware of the news about the upcoming trial.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 14, 2006, 10:38:39 AM
think narvys scared?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 14, 2006, 03:55:55 PM
Quote from: ""sister mercy""
think narvys scared?
yes. i also wonder what his family thinks of him.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 14, 2006, 07:50:20 PM
The Litchfields? Are you kidding? They probably love him now more than ever.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 15, 2006, 12:09:49 AM
Q: Where should they try the rest of the Litchfields?
A: Nuremburg.
Julie
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: A.T.O.M. on August 15, 2006, 12:27:03 AM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Anybody have that link? To the video?...
ISAC has a copy: http://www.isaccorp.org/wwasps/insideedition.mpg (http://www.isaccorp.org/wwasps/insideedition.mpg)
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on August 15, 2006, 12:44:55 PM
Gracias for the link!
I'm guessing that Narvin is thinking, no biggie. If he is convicted, and it's splashed all over the news.........his family will distance themselves from him (business wise). At the same time they will say he was wrongly accused and convicted.
We know the truth, no matter what the outcome is.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 15, 2006, 07:15:41 PM
He's not thinking "no biggie". His ass is going to jail. You do realize what inmates do to child molesters in jail, don't you?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on August 16, 2006, 12:08:18 PM
Child molester? Hmmm..........I thought it was child abuse (not sexually related?). Besides, aren't the prisons filled with tons of men who in one way or another have participated in sex with a minor?
What would they do to him, that doesn't normally happen to most inmates?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 16, 2006, 06:03:45 PM
Too bad it won't be a prison in the states. It would be worthwhile quitting my job to become a guard there. Talk about isolation-restraint-violation for petty rules violations. And I would do my best to see that his roommate was someone he would get along with, if you get my drift. Couldn't wait for the rest of the SS to show up there too!
SCL survivor.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on August 16, 2006, 06:21:21 PM
That's funny. I'm such a softy that after a couple days of torturing him, I would feel really bad. Why don't more people have feelings like that? How do they go to sleep at night, knowing these kids are hurting? It's makes you wonder?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 07:46:50 AM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
That's funny. I'm such a softy that after a couple days of torturing him, I would feel really bad. Why don't more people have feelings like that? How do they go to sleep at night, knowing these kids are hurting? It's makes you wonder?
For just about everyone else in the world, I do feel like that. maybe it's just because with these sadists, they made it personal! As far as I'm concerned, they can send the whole crew to Angola Prison (in LA) or Parchman (in Miss)-or Devil's Island (since they like central America so much!) for life and throw away the key! I would sleep just fine knowing how much they are hurting.
Victim of SCL
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on August 17, 2006, 11:52:13 AM
Hey, I am definately not saying they don't deserve some mistreatment! I think of the thousands of kids that have been through WWASPS programs, and left with deep emotional scars. I do believe they have it coming in one form or another. I'm just saying I wouldn't be able to torture them myself.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 12:38:30 PM
Wouldn't it be cool if you could hire thugs with handcuffs to escort them off to some place where other people could torture them for you?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Deborah on August 17, 2006, 12:46:30 PM
Here ya go. Thug for Hire http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=thug+for+hire (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=thug+for+hire)
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 01:23:22 PM
His ass is going to third world jail.
Maybe the overcrowded type that requires lots of calisthenics, hard labor, and has shitty food and water (gotta love that foreign E. coli).
It'd be just goddam poetic, wouldn't it.
Julie
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on August 17, 2006, 01:31:40 PM
Ya really think? Why would he step foot back in Costa Rica to go through a trial? I don't know much about the law! So, please explain! Also, why has it taken so fricken long? I don't want to get my hopes up, only to be let down.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 05:48:16 PM
E is for extradition.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2006, 06:05:50 PM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Ya really think? Why would he step foot back in Costa Rica to go through a trial? I don't know much about the law! So, please explain! Also, why has it taken so fricken long? I don't want to get my hopes up, only to be let down.
He may not want to-but remember, didn't Dundee reopen under the name Pillars of Hope? He may not be there-but the law in other countries isn't the same as ours. If he doesn't show up for trial, the authorities might just swoop down and arrest whoever is in charge there, plus any other Americans for any trumped up charge they can think of. Remember 'Midnight Express'? Other countries can do what they want-isn't that why the SOB opened up so many overseas facilities? Too bad for him that they quit turning the blind eye to the abuse. Now if only Jamaica will get their act together and close TB!
Survivor of SCL
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on August 17, 2006, 06:36:08 PM
I'm soooooooooo with you on that one. I really have NO CLUE why that place is still around?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on August 17, 2006, 08:31:33 PM
It would be great if there was an address that we could write to, like to the judge or something? Especially for all those kids who were in there. I think he should put to death on the charges of having really bad hair personally! J/K
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 18, 2006, 07:52:42 AM
Quote from: ""Three Springs Waygookin""
Do remember he will be doing time in Costa Rica. Due to the fact he is an American he will recieve special consideration. The Costa Rican government will not look kindly on him being shanked in the showers. This would create bad publicity for their little tourist paradise, and piss off the American government.
He will do his time in a cozy private section of the prison. Probably be a 2 year vacation for him.
Maybe, but I don't think so. A lot of countries go out of their way to ensure that Americans DON'T get any special treatment. They put them in the same type of cells as their own nationals, and treat them the same. BTW-getting shanked in the shower isn't often an option-many countries are big on either solitary or being chained to the wall in squalor several feet from the next prisoner. Oh Narvin-think about THAT one!
Survivor of SCL
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on August 18, 2006, 12:55:48 PM
Chained to the wall? Would that be considered a stress position? Or just a stressful situation?
Title: so.....
Post by: Anonymous on August 19, 2006, 12:42:42 PM
what happens if he doesnt show up for his court date?
Title: .....
Post by: Anonymous on August 19, 2006, 12:46:32 PM
anyone know where hes hiding?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 21, 2006, 10:53:04 AM
Pretty sure he is still in Costa Rica. His second wife is from there.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 22, 2006, 03:48:13 PM
Sort of nice that some rich jerk has to hide out--even if he is hiding out in some type of RICH STYLE. It still is "hiding out."
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on August 22, 2006, 04:40:53 PM
Well, I dunno about him hiding out? He does plan on attending his court date. I guess he feels like he hasn't done anything wrong? I'm not sure what to think of that? I feel like if you are the owner of the school, and you've received lots of complaints, you should check into them. If he is a good guy, he would've made sure that his school was following the law.
I don't know much about Costa Rica, and what the future has to hold for him? The government wouldn't go after him unless they felt like they had a case. You can only paint the picture of being a good guy for only so long. In the end, the truth will come out. I don't know Narvin personally. But, when he's caught lying on camera........that's just the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid (relating to the Inside Edition Story/footage).
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 22, 2006, 11:38:49 PM
This will sound like wishful thinking, I'm sure...
The government is gonna rape him. Costa Rica is small-l libertarian. When PANI raided his ass, they did so understanding that the children were being held against their will. I don't think Narvin quite understands that that's illegal in Costa Rica. He's fucked on that alone. Satan only knows what else they're going to charge him with.
The prisoners are gonna rape him. In a libertarian country, only the truly violent or destructive go to jail. Some asshole American who gets his kicks from hurting children? He's toast. He's gonna look like Mr. Goatse when he gets out. If he survives.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 23, 2006, 08:12:28 AM
Quote from: ""Milk Gargling Death Penal""
This will sound like wishful thinking, I'm sure...
The government is gonna rape him. Costa Rica is small-l libertarian. When PANI raided his ass, they did so understanding that the children were being held against their will. I don't think Narvin quite understands that that's illegal in Costa Rica. He's fucked on that alone. Satan only knows what else they're going to charge him with.
The prisoners are gonna rape him. In a libertarian country, only the truly violent or destructive go to jail. Some asshole American who gets his kicks from hurting children? He's toast. He's gonna look like Mr. Goatse when he gets out. If he survives.
And the problem with this scenario is what, exactly? None that I can think of.
Survivor of SCL
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 24, 2006, 10:30:33 AM
I hope youre right. It is a sad state of affairs in this country if a man who hurts his fellow countrymen can only be held accountable in a foreign court. It's time justice is served on these motherfuckers. :evil:
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on August 24, 2006, 12:38:27 PM
I hope that you are not disappointed if this fantasy wish for justice does not come true. Litchfield has accumulated huge wealth after all these years of ripping off parents and abusing their children. He has made huge donations to the Republican party & candidates in the U.S. -- don't you think he has bribed his way up the food chain in Costa Rica as well?
The only immediate hope of justice being served on this evil man is if the Costa Rican justice system is less subject to being bought off than the U.S. justice system has been. It's possible, but I wouldn't hold my hopes up.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on September 06, 2006, 04:50:24 PM
Anything is possible, and we won't know for 3 more weeks. Trial date is set 9/26/06-9/29/06. It's been a long time since all this went down. What I mean is that it's taken a few years to have this case heard. Sometimes things like these lose momentum. The place was closed down 3+ years ago. They need the testimony of the kids that were in there to be honest, and specific.
It's always possible that maybe the government feels like they did their main job by having Dundee closed down? They might want to focus their energies elsewhere? What the hell do I know?!!!!
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2006, 11:35:27 AM
Sounds like the trial will not go forward. :flame: we'll have to wait and see, but that's word on the street.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2006, 12:51:50 PM
Which street?
How can this possibly not go forward?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: 001010 on September 09, 2006, 01:32:11 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Sounds like the trial will not go forward. :flame: we'll have to wait and see, but that's word on the street.
Do you have a source or link or anything besides hearsay?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on September 10, 2006, 07:32:38 PM
Like I said before, let's wait and see........
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on September 12, 2006, 09:07:35 PM
There have been some frustrations but the trial is still on for the 25th and is expected to last five days. Like CCM says - we'll have to wait and see. . .
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on September 20, 2006, 11:42:29 AM
Well, Narvin has his court date coming up in less then a week. Let the truth prevail. I just want to see things done right. If he's innocent, then fine. But, if what all these kids/parents are saying is true, then he should be found guilty.
I wasn't there, so I cannot speak. But, for those of you who were.......I and others here on fornits would like to hear your thoughts on this.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2006, 02:06:02 PM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Well, Narvin has his court date coming up in less then a week. Let the truth prevail. I just want to see things done right. If he's innocent, then fine. But, if what all these kids/parents are saying is true, then he should be found guilty.
I wasn't there, so I cannot speak. But, for those of you who were.......I and others here on fornits would like to hear your thoughts on this.
I wasn't at Dundee either-but it's a WWASPS program, and he ran it. All of a sudden Dundee used a different, kinder gentler model than say-SCL, TB, CCM or Casa? I don't think so. Let the truth come out, and let him serve about 12 consecutive terms. And keep in mind that if he is found guilty, and by inference, the program is-than that can be used as precedent for other cases, even here in the US. With any luck, the judge will be the Costa Rican equivalent of Roy Bean, the famous texan 'Hanging Judge'.
Survivor of SCL
Title: Here is what they say about Pillars of Hope
Post by: Anonymous on September 20, 2006, 06:07:08 PM
Pillars of Hope Academy is Located in Costa Rica. This group continues in a tradition of saving young men and women's lives and often shares services with the Carolina Springs School. This is a 17 year old or greater and level 3 or better school and thus the student will attend Carolina Springs first to obtain the proper level before proceeding to Costa Rica. If a student has attended and obtained a level 3 from any of the other schools they are also eligiable for this program after a transition stay at Carolina Springs. The advantage of this program is the costs are less and are reflected in the pricing to the parents. In addition the Costa Rica program supports a satillite college campus and provides freshman and sophmore college credit classes while attending there. This will ultimately help the student and give the self confidence to finish a college study and profession. We also have advanced opportunities that the location only provides such as equistrian training with european riding stock. And deep sea fishing opportunities with our yahct adventures. As well as tree canopy exploring and other field trips.
Quote
Do you think that the judge or the jury will make a visit to Pillars of Hope in order to determine "guilt or innocence" in the case against Narvin? I would hate to think they would take the testimony of kids who are there now. I am sure he would like that and would put on a real good dog an pony show for the court.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on September 25, 2006, 04:18:57 PM
Isn't the first day of trial today?
Title: narvin
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2006, 03:52:29 PM
Does anyone know how the trial came out?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2006, 10:46:57 AM
It was postponed.....
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on October 11, 2006, 05:38:12 PM
Postponed? Interesting. Postponed until when?
Title: narvin
Post by: Anonymous on October 30, 2006, 02:16:04 PM
Does anyone have any updates? I would love to see him rot! He is not what he pretends to be by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2006, 02:34:06 PM
What's the point of postponing this trial? Hasn't it been in the works for a few years? Are they hoping that the victims will give up, and put what happened behind them?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on November 27, 2006, 07:57:21 PM
Is there any news on this at all to be had anywhere?
Title: Narvin Lichfield aquitted
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 02:48:14 AM
San José, Costa Rica, Jueves 22 de febrero de 2007, 10:52:30.
• Penal Court of Alajuela did not find a single crime: ACQUITTED OWNER OF RANCHO DUNDEE • Prizes of journalism in New York and in Llorente de Tibas in Costa Rica are a blunder.. Adolfo Ruiz Photos (not included) by Luis Chinchilla, correspondent
The public prosecutor asked for a decision of not guilty in favor of Marvin Browning Lichfield, director of the program of rehabilitation of youth Rancho Dundee, located in Orotina, Alajuela, accused since 2003 of mistreating one out the over 200 American youths who attended the academy.
The students came from the U.S. and they were reclused in the program of rehabilitation for violent behavior, bad character, aggressiveness and aggression toward other youths. The institute of rehabilitation had connection with the National Patronage of the Infancy (PANI), "but at the moment of their arrival of the investigations of the Patronage appear, it was not proven that there were the scandal that was invented against him injuries to anybody nor do any medical reports exist.
In a rare Twist the prosecutor asked for the dismissal
“ It was never proven that Marvin was guilty in anyway in the case of aggression towards any youth, I do not have anything, ladies and gentlemen, honorable judges, therefore I ask for a decision of not guilty",
said with nobility the prosecutor Edgar Oviedo in conclusions yesterday, before the Penal Court of Alajuela, comprising the judges Rosario Alvarado, Hanna Sbravatti and the tribunal president Ana Maria Foyer.
Fiasco Julio Bustos, defender of the American, underlined two technical points: that it was not proven that neither the PANI nor the Agency of Judicial Investigation made any accusation or investigation, and on the other hand, that the journalistic scandal carried out by a national newspaper -that is not this NEWSPAPER EXTRA- was a show, they even went as far as to call Marvin a "Torturer" which lead to winning two awards, one in New York and another in Lorene de Tibias (Costa Rica).
Down the Drain The scandal that was created in the press over false allegations four years ago caused that 200 youths could not continue in the program of rehabilitation at the Rancho Dundee, furthermore that 150 inhabitants of Orotina to lose the tourist employment giving services to the families that came from the U.S. They all lost, except for two journalists that were "awarded with prizes". "We will continue ahead, the program does not stop, we will fight to help youth with aggressive behavior, they slowed the program down for four years, nothing more", Flora Alvarado said, wife of Mr. Lichfield.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 03:27:34 AM
The local mexican press had a similar article when Casa closed down, making the American journalists out to be some kind of self-serving opportunists, when in fact they are the only ones who really care about these kids (and even if they dont at least they bring attention to it). Anyone who nkows the conditions of Costa Rica prison camp and the brainwashing WWASPS kids are forced to endure would never write an article like this, but some of these poorer countries are more than happy to take "spoiled american kids" and teach them a lesson.. is that what a parent wants? Some poor third worlders taking out their hate for america on their child? Because that's what happens...
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 04:32:47 AM
Obviously you are not my son and quite obviously the rumor mongers that try to create a "so called life" here electronically had nothing more to say when the facts and the truth of the Dundee Ranch Fiasco didn’t quite turn out to be what they thought or believed. No one has posted here for months and of course no one has posted the fact that I, Narvin Lichfield was innocent and acquitted of any charges like I had been saying from the start...even though this was made publicly evident more than 4 months ago in the press this is the first posting of it to my knowledge and it is sad I had to be the one to do it. You would think the people here so ready to "bravely" slander others trying to look like the latest savior of the children would have the courage to admit when they have rushed to judgment and destroyed another’s persons name. Obviously no such honor among thieves exists for the persons who post here over the last 5 years in my opinion are just that “thieves” as defined by the bard they …steals trash; ’tis something, nothing. ‘Twas mine, ’tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him And makes me poor indeed. Iago, Othello The Moore Of Venice, Act III Scene iii. ...it is my sincere hope that others do not treat you all with the same level of hypocrisy and poison I’ve experienced here at your hands and keyboards.. that you will never have this forced upon you over false allegations made by such needy people as Amberly Knight whose story changes every time it is told (just go check her testimony in the court documents in Colorado when she was advocating the virtues of the program against what she said in the Utah sue sheff case both were under oath) or by a now convicted pedophile in the form of Bruce Harris (Bruce was convicted of having sex with an under age boy for 3 years in central America) and as a result of a defunct pseudo-child caring organization like what we saw in Casa Alilanza that he was the director of that closed weeks after his arrest.. Karma has a way of coming around so be careful and try to treat the next guy with a little more kindness you might need it yourself some day.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 12:38:24 PM
Quote from: ""Narvin Lichfield""
’tis something, nothing. ‘Twas mine, ’tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him And makes me poor indeed. Iago, Othello The Moore Of Venice, Act III Scene iii.
I'm sure it's of no coincidence you would quote Iago, of all the characters in Othello, how suiting for you.
Title: To Mr. Lichfield
Post by: Covergaard on June 26, 2007, 01:20:21 PM
Dear Mr. Lichfield
Yes, the court ruled that the D.A. could not prove beyond doubt that your were personal responsibility for that abuse that the court believed have taken place.
Please notice, that there according to court has been abuse going on there. I was not done by you, but by some unknown who you had employed.
Normally it is a job of a boss to supervise and oversee the area, he or she is boss for (I am CIO for information technoligies in a company with more than 200 people employed in several countries, so I should know.). A boss should check his staff and see to that rules are upheld and point out at those staff-members, who breaks rule. Sometime even fire them.
Of course errors can occur and then the boss must step in and kick the responsible parties out. It did not happen in your facility. Is that a crime regarding to your person?
Yes, normally it would be if you were able to prevent it or you did not work with the autorities to find the person who should be punished. But there is a huge but.
If you are not well-qualified to hold the job, it is not a crime if your mental capacity does not met the needs. A poor manager is not a criminal.
That was the verdict from the court. You were not guilty regarding managing the facility, because you simply did not have the skills.
Seen in that light, I would - if I got such a verdict - seriously consider my future in this business and find another line of work instead.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 02:09:27 PM
Wait, is that the real cuntprince Litchfield posting here? The grammar and word choice are retarded enough...
Hey, child abusing fuck! Glad to have you here.
Inquiring minds want to know, how often do you masturbate, and what do you masturbate to? Because I've just got this unshakable feeling that you beat off nightly to the kids you get paid for torturing.
Let us know, 'k?
Thanks.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: BuzzKill on June 26, 2007, 02:24:57 PM
Quote from: ""Narvin Lichfield""
Obviously you are not my son and quite obviously the rumor mongers that try to create a "so called life" here electronically had nothing more to say when the facts and the truth of the Dundee Ranch Fiasco didn’t quite turn out to be what they thought or believed. No one has posted here for months and of course no one has posted the fact that I, Narvin Lichfield was innocent and acquitted of any charges like I had been saying from the start...even though this was made publicly evident more than 4 months ago in the press this is the first posting of it to my knowledge and it is sad I had to be the one to do it. You would think the people here so ready to "bravely" slander others trying to look like the latest savior of the children would have the courage to admit when they have rushed to judgment and destroyed another’s persons name. Obviously no such honor among thieves exists for the persons who post here over the last 5 years in my opinion are just that “thieves” as defined by the bard they …steals trash; ’tis something, nothing. ‘Twas mine, ’tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him And makes me poor indeed. Iago, Othello The Moore Of Venice, Act III Scene iii. ...it is my sincere hope that others do not treat you all with the same level of hypocrisy and poison I’ve experienced here at your hands and keyboards.. that you will never have this forced upon you over false allegations made by such needy people as Amberly Knight whose story changes every time it is told (just go check her testimony in the court documents in Colorado when she was advocating the virtues of the program against what she said in the Utah sue sheff case both were under oath) or by a now convicted pedophile in the form of Bruce Harris (Bruce was convicted of having sex with an under age boy for 3 years in central America) and as a result of a defunct pseudo-child caring organization like what we saw in Casa Alilanza that he was the director of that closed weeks after his arrest.. Karma has a way of coming around so be careful and try to treat the next guy with a little more kindness you might need it yourself some day.
Hello Narvin.
I thought I'd make a comment or two about your post trumpeting your acquittal. You do understand this is a forum where thought and opinions and possibilities are freely discussed? I assume you understand this, and so I will tell you what I think about your acquittal. Naturally, you would present a differing POV.
If comment has been sparse up to now - do not think it because there isn't plenty that could be said. It is really more a matter of frustration and depression, that once again a perpetrator of evil was able to grease the right palms and slip free of justice.
Of corse - I can not *prove* you paid people off. But I believe in my heart of hearts, this is what happened, and why you had the result you did in court. After all, you freely admitted to Tim Rogers of the Tico Times you had contributed generously to the Costa Rican President's campaign fund - and you had asked him for "help", but that you feared that the allegations against you would make him not want to touch you with a ten foot pole.
November 28, 2003 Dundee Case Still Worries U.S. Parents By Tim Rogers Tico Times Staff
a quote:
"CHILD Welfare Minister Rosalía Gil has told The Tico Times she will not allow Dundee to reopen here. Lichfield, however, said he will use the $2 million in estimated damages to Dundee as leverage to convince authorities to allow him to reopen an appropriate facility that the "Costa Rican government is comfortable with."
[note: It was suggested by some witness to the raid and "riot" that staff encouraged the trashing of the facility so as to provide a cover for the destruction of evidence]
Lichfield, who said he donated $10,000 to campaign of President Abel Pacheco, claims he has appealed to the President for help, but added Pacheco probably "doesn’t want to touch us with a 10-foot poll." end quote
[ note: I was told by Tim Rogers that this was an illegal contribution; but that no evidence it took place could be found]
Looks like you found the leverage to re-open, as you are now operating under the name Pillars of Hope. And, you managed [or it was somehow managed ] to get the one man who understood the case against you; the one man who was speaking with the student and parent witness about giving evidence; taken off the case. His replacement, for some reason, had no interest in prosecuting you, and did nothing what so ever to gather evidence and witness. They would not take a call from a Dundee student, or parent - nor would they respond to email. So naturally, they had no evidence to present; despite the fact there were indeed witnesses willing and able to come give testimony.
I would imagine, if one were to do some digging in the right places, one would find fatter bank accounts, or new cars, or what ever it is that buys such favors and considerations in places like Costa Rica.
Its all very depressing and frustrating. Still, just as I believe in my heart of hearts you bought your way out of this; I also believe there is a judge who can not be bought, and you will stand before Him one day. I take some comfort in that.
Now - can I ask you something about Pillars of Hope? It was my understanding this was to be a program for the over 18 program kids - who wanted to be there, instead of abandoned to the streets by the "exit plan"; so as to comply with the Costa Rican law concerning not keeping minors against their will. So - Narvin - do you have any minors at Pillars of Hope, who would rather be somewhere else - who would leave if they could?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on June 26, 2007, 02:36:34 PM
Quote from: ""Narvin Lichfield""
Obviously you are not my son and quite obviously the rumor mongers that try to create a "so called life" here electronically had nothing more to say when the facts and the truth of the Dundee Ranch Fiasco didn’t quite turn out to be what they thought or believed. No one has posted here for months and of course no one has posted the fact that I, Narvin Lichfield was innocent and acquitted of any charges like I had been saying from the start...even though this was made publicly evident more than 4 months ago in the press this is the first posting of it to my knowledge and it is sad I had to be the one to do it. You would think the people here so ready to "bravely" slander others trying to look like the latest savior of the children would have the courage to admit when they have rushed to judgment and destroyed another’s persons name. Obviously no such honor among thieves exists for the persons who post here over the last 5 years in my opinion are just that “thieves” as defined by the bard they …steals trash; ’tis something, nothing. ‘Twas mine, ’tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him And makes me poor indeed. Iago, Othello The Moore Of Venice, Act III Scene iii. ...it is my sincere hope that others do not treat you all with the same level of hypocrisy and poison I’ve experienced here at your hands and keyboards.. that you will never have this forced upon you over false allegations made by such needy people as Amberly Knight whose story changes every time it is told (just go check her testimony in the court documents in Colorado when she was advocating the virtues of the program against what she said in the Utah sue sheff case both were under oath) or by a now convicted pedophile in the form of Bruce Harris (Bruce was convicted of having sex with an under age boy for 3 years in central America) and as a result of a defunct pseudo-child caring organization like what we saw in Casa Alilanza that he was the director of that closed weeks after his arrest.. Karma has a way of coming around so be careful and try to treat the next guy with a little more kindness you might need it yourself some day.
Narvin,
I cannot speak for everyone here, but I for one did not set out to slander your name. I am guilty of watching the news, and reading articles on your school, and then discussing it openly. Your beef my friend, is with the media, and your former employees.
Nobody here knows you personally (I don't think??? If so then speak up). I think if you tried putting yourself in someone elses shoes besides your own, someone that did suffer abuse whether it be mentally, physically, or sexually from schools or placements similiar to yours then you could understand the anger and disgust pointed in your direction. You'd be able to empathize with them.
I'm not sure if posting this newspaper article will do much to change peoples opinion of you here on Fornits, or not? But, it's pretty much a guarantee that by saying what you said in your post, and the way you said it, people here are not going to like you even more.
I'm not even really sure why you decided to post? I am assuming that you did to basically rub everyones nose in the fact that you were found "Not Guilty". Not sure that was a good idea? Basically, in doing so you've disturbed the hive.
My advice, if you're truelly innocent........and your school, and staff are innocent........just let it go. The more you bring things up, the more you give people here something to talk about.
CCM girl 1989
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 02:53:44 PM
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Basically, in doing so you've disturbed the hive.
A handful of WWASPS victim's post here, I'd hardly call that "a hive".
The true "hive" is a hundred million dollar corporation lying to parents about their kid to keep them imprisoned as long as possible. Their hive has lawyers and money behind it. This is just a discussion forum.
To use WWASPS terminology, throw your "pity party" somewhere else, Narvin. :roll:
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 03:31:13 PM
Don't WWASPS live in hives, or is that just bees?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on June 26, 2007, 03:41:05 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""CCM girl 1989""
Basically, in doing so you've disturbed the hive.
A handful of WWASPS victim's post here, I'd hardly call that "a hive".
The true "hive" is a hundred million dollar corporation lying to parents about their kid to keep them imprisoned as long as possible. Their hive has lawyers and money behind it. This is just a discussion forum.
To use WWASPS terminology, throw your "pity party" somewhere else, Narvin. :roll:
I wasn't just talking about WWASPS victims Guest. I'm talking about everyone who posts here.
Obviously, people here on Fornits have made a big enough stink about all this to get N.L.'s attention to where he feels like he needs to post his Not Guilty verdict on this forum.
I agree that there is a Judge that exists, that none of us can buy off. In the end we will all be held accountible for what we have done during our lifetime, and to others. We won't be able to escape it.
I just hope that if he was aware of any abuse going on there, that he addressed it, and got rid of any employee responsible doing it. If he was too far removed not to know the daily operations of his own school, then let's hope this is a wake up call for him that he needs to be. Or he puts someone in charge who will be.
I'd like to believe that most people out there are good people, with good intentions. I know a lot of people don't think, or feel the same way I do around these parts. Because, I get slammed for it all the time!!!! Maybe I am too nice? Maybe I am too forgiving? But, when it comes to emotional baggage, I am packing an overnight bag, while others are driving a Uhaul.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 03:52:15 PM
It's good you are moving on, you are also one of the oldest survivors, keep that in mind. You might not mean it to, but it sounds like you are putting down people who are , rightfully, hurt because of what WWASPS and ti's employees did to them and their families. It's good that you are getting over it, but you don't need to compare yourself to others in order to make that point. If your child was in trouble, and you were lied to by one of these program owners you might not be so forgiving, watching them grow and see the long term effects program abuse has, you should know full well.. and most survivors are not in their 30's.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on June 26, 2007, 04:07:23 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
It's good you are moving on, you are also one of the oldest survivors, keep that in mind. You might not mean it to, but it sounds like you are putting down people who are , rightfully, hurt because of what WWASPS and ti's employees did to them and their families. It's good that you are getting over it, but you don't need to compare yourself to others in order to make that point. If your child was in trouble, and you were lied to by one of these program owners you might not be so forgiving, watching them grow and see the long term effects program abuse has, you should know full well.. and most survivors are not in their 30's.
I'm sorry if it came across that I was putting people down. I did not mean for it to.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 04:46:34 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't WWASPS live in hives, or is that just bees?
wasps live in nests not hives, duh.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Joyce Harris on June 26, 2007, 04:52:26 PM
Buzzkill, Many people emphasize with the profound frustration and depression felt by the families with this verdict. The Whtimore families felt the same frustrations/depressions when County Attorney Jared Eldridge gave Cheryl Sudweeks a TAP on the wrist by giving her a plea bargain in the Whitmore Academy criminal case. I sincerely hope it is not discovered that WWASP is holding any children under the age of 18 at Pillars of Hope.
CCM Girl: you may want to give your well-meaning advice and seemingly support to Mr. Litchfield in private communication to him. It does come across as rather offensive to parents of abused children, in my opinion. Most of us have not reached "your level of forgiveness."
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2007, 05:01:54 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
Don't WWASPS live in hives, or is that just bees?
wasps live in nests not hives, duh.
Sure wasps might, but WWASPS live in:
Royal Gorge Academy, Colorado Red River Academy, Louisiana Sky View Christian Academy, Nevada. Horizon Academy, Nevada Respect Camp, Mississippi Woodland Hills Maternity Home, Utah Darrington Academy, Georgia Majestic Ranch Academy, LLC, Utah Cross Creek Manor/Center/Academy LLC, Utah Carolina Springs Academy, South Carolina Tranquility Bay, Jamaica Academy at Ivy Ridge, New York Midwest Academy, Iowa Spring Creek Lodge Academy, Montana Pillars of Hope, Costa Rica - Narvin Lichield
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on June 26, 2007, 05:44:32 PM
Quote from: ""Joyce Harris""
Buzzkill, Many people emphasize with the profound frustration and depression felt by the families with this verdict. The Whtimore families felt the same frustrations/depressions when County Attorney Jared Eldridge gave Cheryl Sudweeks a TAP on the wrist by giving her a plea bargain in the Whitmore Academy criminal case. I sincerely hope it is not discovered that WWASP is holding any children under the age of 18 at Pillars of Hope.
CCM Girl: you may want to give your well-meaning advice and seemingly support to Mr. Litchfield in private communication to him. It does come across as rather offensive to parents of abused children, in my opinion. Most of us have not reached "your level of forgiveness."
I figure if he's posting here, he's reading this. Therefore, I don't have to contact him. BTW Joyce, this isn't the first time I've offended you is it? Talk about pity parties.......Joyce is throwing one right now as we sit here reading this stuff!
I personally could care less about your guilt, and sensitivity on this matter Joyce. You were the one that made the decision to send your kid away. Whitmore didn't come knocking on your door, you came knocking at theirs. Please take some responsibility, and stop putting your crap on me!
BTW, any form of abuse I may have had, during my 4 1/2 years, spent in 3 different placements, pales in comparison to the abandonment issues that I suffered with for years due to my parents decision to outsource their parental responsibilities. I wonder if your child deep down inside feels the same way as I do?
I find it interesting how you try to control the means by which I communicate with people on here. Do you think I have God on speed dial too?
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Joyce Harris on June 26, 2007, 10:18:40 PM
No "pity party" at all; and I have no guilt from being conned, CCM GIRL.
Joyce
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Joyce Harris on June 26, 2007, 10:23:32 PM
CCM Girl: I wanted to add; My daughter was enrolled at Whitmore for 7 weeks. It is to her great disadvantage that it took me THAT LONG to figure things out and remove her. I do accept my own responsibility for her placement, along with her father. I blame no one else for allowing us to be conned by the best.
I am deeply sorry that your family abandoned you for over 4 years. Joyce
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on June 27, 2007, 01:32:49 PM
I think it was the word "support" that got underneath my skin. I do not support anyone who abuses children.
Here's the facts, there are schools that are good, there are schools that are bad. I have had my own experiences that I know to be true, but there were also some things I outright lied about to my parents to try to get them to take me home (didn't quite work!). I also witnessed other girls do the same thing as me. I was so desperate that one time when I ran away from one of the schools, I was picked up by the police. I told them my therapist was making sexual advances towards me in an effort to not return. It didn't work, I returned. CCM immediately switched out my therapist, and investigated. I was too young, and too proud to admit I lied. Poor guy, he hadn't done anything wrong.
I agree that we should aire on the side of caution rather then chalking it up to these kids are just liars, and manipulators. However, you have to remember these people that run these schools are human too. BTW, there are people in this business that are in it to help families, not to just pick up a paycheck. This is not by any means an "easy" business. There's a hundred different avenues someone could take to generate the kind of income a school like Dundee produced with half the headaches.
I just see a pattern repeating itself around here of attacking people before all the facts are presented, that's all. That, and the fact that the majority here feel all schools, and programs are bad!!! Well, they are not.
There is also quite a few people here that make it known that they believe no programs such as these should exist. That parents should be forced to deal with their pain in the butt son/daughter. But, people don't stop to think that maybe the parents are just as screwed up as the kids?!! Another thing that really gets to me is when some of you have told me in the past that no kid should be forced to go into treatment if they don't want to! So, my response was great let them roam free! Let them end up hurting themselves, or killing an innocent bystander because they are on drugs or drinking and stole Mom and Dad's car, and got into an accident!
I'm not well liked around here, and I really don't care. I hardly ever post here anymore anyways because I have a different opinion that most people are not interested in hearing. I've already spent way too much time on this. If anyone wants to PM me go ahead, I will read it. Otherwise, I will catch up with you all in about a months time.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Rude Intrusion on June 27, 2007, 02:04:52 PM
CCM - I don't think it is that people don't like you. I think it is that you confuse people. You do often come across as sympathetic to the abusers. On the other hand, you will also sometime speak out against the abuse in very strong terms. Even when speaking of the same person, and the same acts of abuse.
You have often written here, and elsewhere, about the sexual abuse you endured at the hands of Robert Litchfield. Sometimes you seem to understand it was criminal abuse; and other times it seems you think it harmless and normal and no big deal. You will complain about it on a forum board - you sometimes seem to understand that an adult who has power and authority over a child, is committing abuse of that child, when he makes sexual advances; but you refuse to talk about it to anyone that matters - to hold him in any way accountable. And then you'll flip back to its no big deal - everyone does it - who cares; and you seem to be very sympathetic towards this man who took egregious advantage of you when you were the most vulnerable. It is frustrating for those who read your conflicting posts.
As for Narvin knowing what was going on at Dundee - I wonder how you can have the least doubt he knew the intimate details of everything that happen at Dundee? He lived on the grounds. If the "students" could hear their friends screaming from the pain of a restraint from across the grounds - do you think he couldn't? When he looked in on the OP room - do you think he went suddenly blind? Do you think he was unaware of the consequences of shutting off the city water and putting a "school" full of Gringos on Costa Rican well water? Do you think he failed to notice the flesh melting off the boys as they were fed starvation rations for weeks and months on end? Do you think he failed to notice they had 12 cots jammed into room meant to hold 2 ?
Oh but poor Narvin. . . He is only trying to help. He could become a millionaire any number of other less difficult ways, you say. That's the kind of thing people find offensive.
But I don't think most people who know you dislike you. I think most wish you would find a good PTSD therapist and come to grips with the damage done to your mental health by these bastards.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 02:24:28 PM
I just got this flashback to the WWASPS documentary when they were deposing Robert Lichfield and he says something to the effect of "business... my interest in school was business..." these people don't want to help kids, if they did they'd shut down and transfer them to regulated facilities or home.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on June 27, 2007, 04:13:36 PM
The only thing I can say, is that there are people that I have hurt in my lifetime that didn't deserve it. I think what I'm going to say might be a complete shock to people, but I think it's important that I say it.
My parents for their own reasons made the decision to send me away at the age of 12. By the time I was 16 I was so burnt out on placements, that I was on the verge of ending my own life. I actually had attempted it a few times. Anyway, Bob Lichfield was one of the few people that tried to make life better for me. He went out of his way to give me more privelages then the other girls such as having staff take me to ride his horses in my freetime. I think he did so because he actually felt bad for me. He even took time out of his hectic life to talk to me about my situation, and he didn't have to. It wasn't his job. I had a therapist. But, he felt sorry for me.
Well, it was never enough for me. What I wanted was complete freedom, and release. He couldn't make that happen, only my parents could. I even went as far as to try and blackmail him. I told him if he didn't get my parents to let me go that I would tell them he was molesting me. I took it way too far. I literally convinced myself of this because I had to come across as the victim. I needed to play the part, and win an award for it. Because, if I didn't it meant I had to stay in placements until I was 18. BTW, that part came easy to me since I had been abused by men since the day I entered this world.
I hadn't revisted any of these memories till 2 years ago when I came across Fornits. I looked back at those times, and remembered being the victim. I told the same story as I did back then. In every other part of my life I had come so far, except for my memories of CCM. I never really took a good look at what happened to me there, and seperated the fact from fiction until about a year ago. That's when you started to see a complete change in my posts.
I find it a little bizarre, as I am sure you do too! How I could be the person I have been for the last 10 years atleast, the type of person who is honest, and does not hurt people as she once did. But, not come out and be a 100% honest about my relationship with Bob Lichfield? I couldn't tell you why. I think it's because I forced myself at that young age to believe my own lies and then never took the time to correct my brain until now.
If you think I am the only one who did such things you are wrong. But, I may be one of only a few that has the strength to come out, and set things straight, and admit I was wrong. I'm not saying that all kids who claim they were abused are liars. I am absolutely not saying that whatsover. But, there are kids who were in similiar situations such as myself that made false accusations to try and gain freedom.
I think I was nervous to come out and admit to people what I did, especially being this is such an open public forum. So I started becoming more sympathetic to people such as Narvin. I was more open to hearing both sides of the story, and NOT judging them until then.
I realize that if Bob wanted to come after me for the things I have said about him, he could. But, I highly doubt he will. Bigger fish to fry, and the fact he probably understandsand and forgives me for what I did. He's been in this business a long time, I wasn't the first to say such things, I will not be the last.
It's pretty safe to assume that by setting the record straight here, that I will be attacked, called a bunch of names, and told what I horrible person I am blah, blah, blah!!!! But, I really could care less. I know what I'm doing is the right thing.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 04:58:55 PM
I'm so sorry your parents abandoned you like that for your entire teenage life.. what can you say to a person after this happens to them? You were reacting to an insane situation, and doing whatever you could do to get out would be expected, nobody is ever going to judge you for this, it's a human reaction.. I don't think anybody here is going to bash you or say mean things, we have all been hurt by the same people.. and I say WWASPS hurt me and my parents did.
My parents for believing in WWASPS and WWASPS for providing them an outlet in which to just abandon me, although not nearly as long as you were. I saw abuse and experienced abuse, sometimes kids would say or do something that would not be with the program, hbut the reaction from staff was way overkill. You don't need to restrain kids for no reason or lock them up in isolation for being depressed or trying to run.
They are kids, doing what kids do, reacting to the strange reality placed in front of them... I know what WWASPS did to me was wrong. They violated my human rights, and left a scar that will never heal.. no it wasn't the program owner, and some of the staff were nice yes, but it's not them that do it. It''s the system which they built and profit from, a system that allows our parents to leave us , without anybody ever asking any questions other than telling them where to send the paycheck. I'm sorry you had to endure so many years of captivity and non traditional life as a teen.
And yes I can too admit that I did some things to "deserve" the punishments I received. I ran from the facility, so they tackled me and restrained me and dragged me to isolation for 5 days and made me snow shovel the facility to be let out for Christmas. By the end of that I was thanking them for letting me out. Its weird how that works.
But to me the bottom line is, no matter what went down, none of us deserved what we got. The system is corrupt. They built it, and made a financial empire off it. Their main customer base, is, uncaring selfish parents who want to abandon their kids and also some legitimately scared parents who are fooled , I think. What are some people's guesses on the percentage? I'd wager about an even split.
What if a kid is being sexually abused in their house by a parent and then are sent away for years? Maybe they feel saved from abuse, who knows right. I'm sure this has happened. But to go from a household of abuse into a controlled, cold and completely non-empathetic environment is not doing any favors for a kid who suffered abuse. There are countless better places to help a kid in that situation, than to just leave them at some facility where the world forgets about them. Seminars in my opinion are hurtful there is no reason for that. Traditional therapy and treatment work much better, but they cost a lot and cannot be repackaged and sold at such low rates. So WWASPS just makes it up as it goes, so long as the money doesn't stop coming in. That's why I have a problem with them.
scd
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Joyce Harris on June 27, 2007, 06:50:53 PM
CCM Girl, Your truth is your truth--and that is all you have to live with. Hopefully, no one will attack you for speaking your truth. I certainly repect your right to do that. Joyce
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Oz girl on June 27, 2007, 07:48:35 PM
CCM girl. i dont think you are disliked though I sometimes disagree with some of the things you say. i certainly dont dislike you. I have heard from some people that there are good programs. I have also occasionally spoken to kids/parents which say their place was not bad in the sense that the kids were well fed and not physically abused or called names. But here is why I see programs as deeply philosophically and morally flawed;
-While every parent who sends their child to a program is not bad, programs do enable bad parents to abandon their children.
-Programs (even the good ones) appear to promote the idea that kids problems stem from the fact that the kid is "bad" or has done something wrong. I am yet to see a program which does not incorporate this philosophy at some point. While there are some kids who are real horrors most who are behaving in a way that is just off the charts are either in distress or trying to deal with some other problem. i also just dont think that issues like aspergers, depression etc are moral problems.
-Programs are not about education, they are about changing the way a person views the world. Whether it is about accepting Jesus into your heart in the case of religious programs or accepting some new age philosophy this to me is a serious civil liberty issue. Nobody should be told how they can think. Liberty is also something that American culture claims to value above all else. It must then be very confusing for a kid to hear that they must think a certain way. Deciding to join a cult is one thing. Being placed in one is another
-Programs claim to be able to treat just about everything. How can anything work when it uses the same model for treating drug addiction as it does for mental health disorders or eating disorders. Some problems are unique and require very specific treatment
-The idea that emotional growth is something that can be rewarded or punished is absurd. Nobody is rewarded or punished for physical growth.
-Few programs have adequate abuse reporting systems. Censorship of mail and phone calls or severely limiting phone calls is a recepie for disaster
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Rude Intrusion on June 27, 2007, 08:02:43 PM
CCM, you write: By the time I was 16 I was so burnt out on placements, that I was on the verge of ending my own life. I actually had attempted it a few times. Anyway, Bob Lichfield was one of the few people that tried to make life better for me. He went out of his way to give me more privelages then the other girls such as having staff take me to ride his horses in my freetime. I think he did so because he actually felt bad for me. He even took time out of his hectic life to talk to me about my situation, and he didn't have to. It wasn't his job. I had a therapist. But, he felt sorry for me.
Question: Do you realize this is typical behavior for a pedophile looking for a victim? They befriend the vulnerable - and then begin the sexual advances. They can easily have the victim believing they were responsible; or that it is "no big deal"; or that they would hurt someone they have come to care about - the one person who seemed to care about them, if they report the abuse. It is insidious and evil. Not trying to talk you out of your retraction - especially if the retraction is the truth. But I did want to point out, even your retraction raises a lot of red flags.
If you aren't talking to a therapist you like and trust, you really should. This isn't meant to be a snide remark. It is meant as concerned advice.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Rude Intrusion on June 27, 2007, 08:05:30 PM
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
CCM girl. i dont think you are disliked though I sometimes disagree with some of the things you say. i certainly dont dislike you. I have heard from some people that there are good programs. I have also occasionally spoken to kids/parents which say their place was not bad in the sense that the kids were well fed and not physically abused or called names. But here is why I see programs as deeply philosophically and morally flawed;
-While every parent who sends their child to a program is not bad, programs do enable bad parents to abandon their children.
-Programs (even the good ones) appear to promote the idea that kids problems stem from the fact that the kid is "bad" or has done something wrong. I am yet to see a program which does not incorporate this philosophy at some point. While there are some kids who are real horrors most who are behaving in a way that is just off the charts are either in distress or trying to deal with some other problem. i also just dont think that issues like aspergers, depression etc are moral problems.
-Programs are not about education, they are about changing the way a person views the world. Whether it is about accepting Jesus into your heart in the case of religious programs or accepting some new age philosophy this to me is a serious civil liberty issue. Nobody should be told how they can think. Liberty is also something that American culture claims to value above all else. It must then be very confusing for a kid to hear that they must think a certain way. Deciding to join a cult is one thing. Being placed in one is another
-Programs claim to be able to treat just about everything. How can anything work when it uses the same model for treating drug addiction as it does for mental health disorders or eating disorders. Some problems are unique and require very specific treatment
-The idea that emotional growth is something that can be rewarded or punished is absurd. Nobody is rewarded or punished for physical growth.
-Few programs have adequate abuse reporting systems. Censorship of mail and phone calls or severely limiting phone calls is a recepie for disaster
All excellent points, worth repeating.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on June 27, 2007, 08:30:40 PM
Rude Intrusion- I can't believe you're telling me I need to go see a shrink. Ouch! I've never felt better in my whole life. If I felt like I needed to talk to someone, I would. Thank you for your concern though.
I just merely wanted to set the record straight, which I did. It was difficult but something that I felt I needed to do.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 09:28:08 PM
There is nothing wrong with seeing shrink
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 09:42:10 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
There is nothing wrong with seeing shrink
That's because you haven't studied psychiatry like I have, my friend Tom will explain.
Title: Lichfield/Dundee in the News
Post by: Anonymous on June 27, 2007, 11:07:17 PM
OH....never mind. PLEASE, not Tom.....and his shit. You really do need to keep your word, and check back as you promised in about a month.