Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Kathy on June 11, 2006, 06:44:00 PM
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New report released on FICA Understanding the Con-Game as it relates to the Troubled-Teen Industry at http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... he_con.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/understanding_the_con.htm)
Also Understanding the Psychology of the program at http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.htm ... ashing.htm (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/understanding_brainwashing.htm)
Video clips from the British showing of "Brat Camp" http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/ (http://www.kathymoya.com/FICA/index.html/)
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Kathy, have you changed your position about charging parents for your investigative reports about the programs your view as abusive? there was much discussion on this topic here awhile back.
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Yeah and most of us understand that she does this work and research and runs the website on her own. Asking to recoup some of the administrative fees is in no way over the line or profiting from anything.
Fucking grow up and get a life. We all get that you think that anyone who doesn't act or behave the way that YOU think they should is automatically pegged by you as a Semblerite, child abuser etc. We don't agree, but we get that's what you think. Can ya move on now?
Kathy, as always the site looks better and better and understanding how the con works is an extremely important part of getting people to understand. Keep up the good work. :tup:
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Point being, will parents think the programs that are NOT on Kathy's "bad list" are then ok?
This just seems how it could work.
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A good question. :tup:
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Telling someone to "fucking grow up and get a life" does not change the fact that Kathy said she would charge parents for "investigative information." And NO ONE accused Kathy Moya of being a child abuser.
A simple question was asked, and no accusation of child abuse was made AGAINST ANYBODY.
Sounds like someone else, YOU, might need to let Kathy answer for herself.
I don't even know what a "SEMBLERITE" is.
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Sounds like someone else, YOU, might need to let Kathy answer for herself.
Sounds like a plan- it was a reasonable enough question.
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There is one way to find out. Go visit the site and read it. (duh :silly: )
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What? As if Kathy won't check this thread again? A-HOLE. :roll:
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oh my god, oh wow, just a mine of new information...
Oh i'm sorry did I overdo the sarcasm there?
If you believe that people cannot be trusted to govern themselves,
then can they be trusted to govern others?
--Thomas Jefferson
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Its good information on a subject people need to understand. Its a good idea to explain the nature of the confidence scam and how it relates to what goes on in troubled teen marketing. I haven't seen it explained anywhere else like this. Brain washing is talked about a lot, but the relationship to the con-game and teen help marketing has gone unexplained. Parents are being scammed, is about as detailed an explanation as you generally find. I'm glad Kathy put this together and glad she is putting the info out and about, where it can be found by families looking into the industry. Why can't people be glad when someone puts forth the effort to educate instead of pecking them to pieces? Seems as mindless as a flock of chickens pecking each other to death.
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Yeah that's true. I'm sorry.
If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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So lemme get this straight, in the UK, on TV, they allowed videos of their kids sent to the USA (and they bitch about gitmo pretty non stop... I mean considering MI6 sprung an innocent guy out and he recently got on CNN, described how it runs, and it sounds basically like tranquility bay but slightly nuanced differently...) and put through fear/pain compliance bullshit and humiliating takedowns.
"Ill make it hurt". :roll:
I give the fuck up. I honestly give up.
You win! its over. Im gone.
See, the problem here is the "herd of cats" principle. People are stupid, stubborn, block out things they dont want to hear (including the truth backed up with tons of evidence, common sense, and morality) and want to be 'right' more than actually be correct. There are TONS of stupid/milquetoast/apathetic/easily swayed(or scared or intimidated or influenced)/brainwashed parents out there who just dont know how to parent, or dont bother to, or really dont care, making all these fucked up kids, and some are so stupid they feed directly into these stupid programs.
Ill call them 'turkeys' from now on, go search for 'struggling turkeys' if you care to find out why but dont know already. If you dont know but can't search, fuck you :sad:
Anyway, the 'turkeys' are out there being self absorbed (and immature) and basically crappy parents, and jumping right in with the program bandwagon! Talking here on fornits isn't going to reach them, and I cant see any practical means to do so! They're the problem, and the thing is, theyre too STUPID to be left to make up their own decisions for themselves and thier own kids.
Coming to that reailzation really made me do a re-examination of society. Most people are really just arent equipped to make big decisions for the society at large, and amazingly few can really manage thier own personal lives. I guess its unfair for those of us who can think and actually apply or minds, but then again its probalby expected that those of us with brains will apply them in some career and get influence, money, and thus a higher rung on the ladder, or if we have brains AND the ability to manipulate to either get into politics... or start some shit like WWASPS.
Damn, that really just spun the tables on how I have to look at Ken Kay. He's herding cats! Too bad hes a greedy evil asshole.
Anyway, what does fornits do, if not somehow prevent the turkeys from putting their kids in programs and... well, being morons? We definitely dont make the parents that do come around, come around. They already HAVE either learned how to be critical and smelled the bullshit, or are naturally inclined to check before jumping. Some get the urge to find out the facts after putting thier kid in too, but we can forgive late more than never, right?
Well, we dont make them come around, but we DO provide facts to them. In that role we're doing some good - but we're hardly making anyome come around that didnt have a forebrain anyway.
And then, well, theres all the 'kitties 'here in the herd o' fornits, and the CACA bullshit w/ sue scheff, the ISAC drama... we're getting nothing done at all bickering and fighting eachother, pulling in 15 directions (none of them 'forward') and I came to a personal revelation a while ago... a lot of the posting I do here is for my own Shits n' Giggles. Even if it is the truth, and someone likes it, and it exposes the truth, thats a pretty shitty reason to do anything.
And, considering that the real good fornits does is expose the facts (and by side effect of the turkeys posting here, be they parents, programmies, staff, or whatever, expsosing the people on the side of the programs by their behavior and thinking) and Im hardly a source for anything, the only possible good I've done except encourage a few of the parents that turned their brains back on is argue with and debunk the bullshit from the sophists like thewho who might have 'won over' someone who didnt know how to see through his bullshit.
But, as nature abhorrs a vacuum, and I havent posted here in a while, TSW and others have been doing that rather nicely. Theres no need for me here. But if anyone wants to read what I said, the search button works wonderfully.
But, at any rate, Im done spinning my wheels. When the time comes that something could be done productively, Ill show up again - but not just here, if I do come here at all - oh no, It will be in person, on TV, and in your face (and you know who you are) and it will be personal. But staying here with all the sectarian drama from the alphabet soup 'orginizations' and Sue Scheff going out of her way to make a buck and fuck it all up is fruitless, frustrating, and insane. Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, right? Or, at least thats a quote someone keeps repeating from an unknown source.
Anyway, its time to pack my bags, and whistle for a cab. And when it came near, the liscense plate said fresh and had dice in the mirror! If anything I could say that this cab was rare, but I thought naw forget it, yo homes, to bel-air!
I pulled up to a house about seven or eight, and I yelled to the cabby yo homes, smell you later! I looked at my kingdom, I was finally there, to sit on my throne, as the prince of bel-air.
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Well, thanks for the decent compliment on the 'con report.'
'Teacher says put wild child in the woods' is an article that is on the site to demonstrate that 3 edu-cons recommended Alldredge Academy and told parents "not to sweat the staff credentials" only 3 months prior to Ryan Lewis's death at Alldredge. It's always goog to look at how an article is used on the site rather than taking it out of context. That way you won't be so worried. :wink:
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My subjective touchstone on whether to forgive a post program parent who's seen the light is whether they seem more concerned for themselves or more concerned for their kid.
Not that they need my forgiveness. They don't. They don't know me from Adam and I don't matter a darn in their lives--which I'm glad of, and they probably are, too.
It's just my personal rule of thumb for whether I consider them okay people or not.
Julie
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Even though the report specifically states to be wary of edu cons that say don't pay attention to credentials, I went ahead a put a note at the top of the page with the article entitled "Teacher says put wild child in the wilderness" clarifying the purpose of the article. Thanks. km
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On 2006-06-17 11:44:00, Kathy wrote:
"Well, thanks for the decent compliment on the 'con report.'
'Teacher says put wild child in the woods' is an article that is on the site to demonstrate that 3 edu-cons recommended Alldredge Academy and told parents "not to sweat the staff credentials" only 3 months prior to Ryan Lewis's death at Alldredge. It's always goog to look at how an article is used on the site rather than taking it out of context. That way you won't be so worried. :wink: "
That is very true, but it would be useful, if possible, to make such a comment just above the article. Many undeducated readers would not make that connect, and worse case, could conclude that you supported these Ed Cons and the programs they refer to. Something to consider.
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That is very true, but it would be useful, if possible, to make such a comment just above the article. Many undeducated readers would not make that connect, and worse case, could conclude that you supported these Ed Cons and the programs they refer to. Something to consider."
Already Been Done. :tup:
See the following post clarifying the Teacher Says article
Posted: 2006-06-17 19:56:00 at http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =15#201506 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=15834&forum=9&start=15#201506)
Even though the report specifically states to be wary of edu cons that say don't pay attention to credentials,(with the link to the article inserted here) I went ahead a put a note at the top of the page with the article entitled "Teacher says put wild child in the wilderness" clarifying the purpose of the article. Thanks. km
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True enough I just glanced at it rather quickly before commenting on it. However, I would put some flashing lights or something like that on it so that the blind seeing fellers like me can pick up on the subtle nuances of your disclaimer
A note at the top of the page has been posted.
Time will tell if you are legit or you are going to be one of the veritable legion of Advocates
Yup time shall tell. Though I am not trying to be an "advocate" so much as fulfilling my obligation as a former program-teen and current parent-of-teens, to let parents know that just maybe their kids are telling the truth about the abuse and that maybe they aren't LYING.
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Hey, you know what's rather ironic, three springs? I am the one who came up with the idea for the "Straight Inc. Survivors" and the "Troubled Teen Industry" forums and asked Ginger to host them for me several years ago.(This began the fornits WWF, and ginger has grown them rather well, since then.) I believe (actually, I KNOW) that I've been around here before you ever knew we existed. And you are telling me, "only time will tell what kind of person you are." That's funny. :rofl: Oh well, such is life.
see the archive of this forum at: http://fornits.com/coolboard/ (http://fornits.com/coolboard/)
Then there was another on EZboard, which is how the WAYWARD fora story began. Ginger's fornit's site became a final resting place for the fora.
see: Straight, Inc Survivors Kathy's original web forum where it all got started and where a lot of these other forums first came together.
... and so on and so forth
My first post Kathy
04/09/2000 11:27
Anonymity Anonymous
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A special thanks to Ginger for creating the Anonymity Anonymous site. This is the first web site I found on the net pertaining to Straight, Inc. in any way. Thanks Ginger for allowing me to realize we need more sites like yours to get the word out!
And this one which can be found at:
http://fornits.com/anonanon/sidetalk/messages/156.htm (http://fornits.com/anonanon/sidetalk/messages/156.htm) Posted by Kathy on April 09, 2000 at 07:36:37:
Hi Ginger, You have inspired me. We need more sites like yours in order to spread the word about these terrible places and the terrible people/politicians behind them. I was in the St. Pete Straight, originally, then in the Viginia one when it opened. So this is my spin-off of your site with a Greater Washinton area slant, so-to-speak.
Thanks, Kathy
Survivors of Straight, Inc.
Anyway that's just some of the history behind this forum, there is 6 years worth which is too much to get into right now, but if you do some looking around, you'll figure it all out.
Have fun! :wave:
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TSW - don't you just love a good history lesson :smile:
Kathy - love the web site. Realy like the look and feel of it, and its loaded with info.
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On 2006-06-17 20:26:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Lately I have been noticing a growing trend of advocates to profit off the deceased for increased recognition of their organizations. I have commented on it before and immediately been sniped, but that to me verifies my thoughts that these scum bags are worse than the program owners. I have indepentant confirmation that one of the people sneaking around after me in Anon is an advocate of a known organization. (Thank you ip sniffers!)
are you serious? you think an advocate organization asking for donations is "worse than program owners"? what the fuck are you smoking and where can I get some? you have gone off your rocker.
Worse you could end up being a self serving piece of shit that deserves a good flushing down the toilet, but I hope and pray that is not the case. I hope for my own faith in humanity that you are legit and for right now I am willing to extend to you the benifit of my doubt that you until proven otherwise.
why is it that the higher ones post count gets the greater their level of arrogance? thats why i love anons so much. dude, didnt you work for a program and "takedown" hundreds of kids for "no reason"? who are you to criticize someone working for what they believe in, are they out there physically assaulting kids for no reason? i doubt it. get off your high horse, you dont deserve it. people are actually out there working for something and now some expat program staff who hasnt done shit is the sheriff of the advocates?
:rofl:
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Yes, Kathy, awesome site you have there, thanks for all the great info! :smile:
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On 2006-06-18 08:53:00, Rude Intrusion wrote:
"TSW - don't you just love a good history lesson :smile:
Kathy - love the web site. Realy like the look and feel of it, and its loaded with info."
ok, sorry about the history lesson :wink:
Thanks R. Intrusion!
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I have permission and encouragement from several of the parents.~~~ the rest is already public info., I'm just gathering it in one place for parents of teens to find all in one stop.
However, nothing I say will cure YOUR paranoia, so, ce la vie.
Sorry the program had such a severe effect on you, hopefully time will help you heal.
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I am in fact rooting for you
:roll:
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Kathy, that's some excellent work. How ya been?
Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author