Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 26, 2006, 06:40:00 PM
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I was wondering the panel's thoughts on going into wilderness before a TBS. Is ther a benefit to go wildernes first. Any experiences by anyone?
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Why don't YOU go try it and see for yourself? Then YOU report back here and let us know how YOUR little adventure worked out?
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But, don't send YOUR KID, OK????
YOU GO YOURSELF.
We want a first-hand report on how YOU liked it.
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helpful, considered responses are so nice.
of course, the "panel" here is essentially (few exceptions) anti any program.
IF a tbs is in order, know that some schools require wilderness first. BUT sometimes it is not a good idea - depends on the kid
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It doesn't make sense to me to ask this question on this forum. Wilderness first? Do you think that a general answer is sufficient? No one here knows anything about the specific case (teen) in question. There is no diagnosis. There is no background.
You could walk up to any random stranger on the street and ask this question and get a response that is just as valid as anything you would find on the Internet.
Seek profressional help and guidance, use your own judgement, but do not solicit advice from strangers on the Internet to make such an important decision.
Also, do not depend on one source. Check all angles of this and explore all the alternatives. Do not rush, no matter how urgent you think, or others try to make you think, the situation is.
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Wilderness first is almost always a good plan. It allows the therapists in wilderness to get at some of the core issues in a safe environment without the distractions of normal life. No music, friends, family, drugs, alcohol, cell phones etc. Wilderness programs are excellent, for the most part. The therapists will give you good advice on the next step. The kid will be less likely to resist the placement at the boarding school or treatment center if he/she works through some things in wilderness.
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On 2006-05-27 11:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wilderness first is almost always a good plan. It allows the therapists in wilderness to get at some of the core issues in a safe environment without the distractions of normal life. No music, friends, family, drugs, alcohol, cell phones etc. Wilderness programs are excellent, for the most part. The therapists will give you good advice on the next step. The kid will be less likely to resist the placement at the boarding school or treatment center if he/she works through some things in wilderness."
I think a wilderness program or tbs MAY be good in some circumstances. BUT the comment quoted is irresponsibly general. Wilderness programs, like tbs, cars, shirts and people are not all the same, and are not all good. Therapists need not be in a wilderness to address "core issues". You don't necessarily need a wilderness program to advise on the "next step" if he/she "needs" wilderness at all. And using a wilderness program to break down resistance to a further placement is really stupid, imo.
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Wilderness programs DO vary in quality. Second Nature is excellent- both Utah and Georgia. There are many other excellent programs. Do some research.
I think on the whole, wilderness programs are better in quality and therapeutic benefit than the therapeutic schools. However, the programs are expensive and are not meant to be a long term placement.
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It's our resident Second Nature troll again! :wave:
Do you get paid in money or teenagers?
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Has an independant adolescnt mental health professional reccommended this? Did you have your kid examined? Why don't you have your adolescent specialist explain the research? Between the wilderness and TBS placement you are going to spend $100,000. Your relationship with your kid lasts a lifetime. Don't be the instrumentality of his incarceration, unless you are looking to dump your kid. The staff at TBS are far less qualified than you can get in your community. Be swayed by professional guidance not parent testimonials.
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A hundred THOUSAND dollars?
That's batshit insane!!
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On 2006-05-27 19:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"A hundred THOUSAND dollars?
That's batshit insane!!"
Depends on the program. The program I'm most familiar with was $110,000 if pre-paid, in 2000. Add Wilderness and you're looking at closer to $150,000.
I've read that some kids repeat Wilderness and/or TBS.
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On 2006-05-27 07:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"helpful, considered responses are so nice.
of course, the "panel" here is essentially (few exceptions) anti any program.
IF a tbs is in order, know that some schools require wilderness first. BUT sometimes it is not a good idea - depends on the kid"
Um, "the panel" here is the way it is for a reason:- Theres zero proof any program works
- Theres plenty that piecewise debunks the entire program bit by bit
- They cost way too much
- There is no actual evaulation of the children to see if they have anything wrong or need any therapy - but even if they DID, programs dont provide that therapy.
Basically, the program is for the parent, not the kid, and nobody has demonstrated otherwise.
I like the arguement about calling us 'anti program' as if that has anything to do with the fact that they dont work...
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On 2006-05-27 07:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"helpful, considered responses are so nice.
of course, the "panel" here is essentially (few exceptions) anti any program.
IF a tbs is in order, know that some schools require wilderness first. BUT sometimes it is not a good idea - depends on the kid"
Nope, it depends on the parents bank account.
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A hundred and fifty... THOUSAND... dollars.
I could make your kid a young god with that and still have enough left over to buy a new Dodge Viper.
In fact, you can buy it for him. Make a simple deal: "Stay off the drugs, stop skipping school, and you get to drive the car." Teenage boys may argue with you. They do not argue with 0-60 in four seconds. Be sure to buy him several packs of condoms while you're at it.
And then send him to college on the other half of the money.
What the fuck is wrong with these parents?
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Gee-why didn't the parents think of that great idea? News flash- that and other brilliant theories didn't work.
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They don't know how or what to do so they go offering their open purse to the first scumbag who will tell them what they want to hear. They are marks, plain and simple.
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On 2006-05-27 22:02:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"
On 2006-05-27 07:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"helpful, considered responses are so nice.
of course, the "panel" here is essentially (few exceptions) anti any program.
IF a tbs is in order, know that some schools require wilderness first. BUT sometimes it is not a good idea - depends on the kid"
Um, "the panel" here is the way it is for a reason:- Theres zero proof any program works
- Theres plenty that piecewise debunks the entire program bit by bit
- They cost way too much
- There is no actual evaulation of the children to see if they have anything wrong or need any therapy - but even if they DID, programs dont provide that therapy.
Basically, the program is for the parent, not the kid, and nobody has demonstrated otherwise.
I like the arguement about calling us 'anti program' as if that has anything to do with the fact that they dont work..."
ummmm...
some former program participants believe it saved their life. something else might have done so too, and it isn't an all or nothing proposition, but for sure it needn't hurt and often enough does boost self esteem - and thus lowers chances of certain stupid behaviors -- which doubtless many readers here think harmless or good.
ummm ...
we've all been down the proof crap way too many times to think anything offered here one way or the other will matter
umm ...
"they" usually do cost way too much - though it is interesting that you obviously think that a lower cost would be OK or better? so, what would be a fair cost???
UM ...
At most good programs there is an actual evaluation of the children, by a licensed practitioner, and the programs do provide needed therapy.
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On 2006-05-27 13:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wilderness programs DO vary in quality. Second Nature is excellent- both Utah and Georgia. There are many other excellent programs. Do some research.
I think on the whole, wilderness programs are better in quality and therapeutic benefit than the therapeutic schools. However, the programs are expensive and are not meant to be a long term placement."
Right from Second Nature's website, here are the qualifications needed to be an instructor:
What qualifications do I need?
Second Nature looks for individuals with great people skills, ability to work in a team, and work under stressful situations if they arise. Field Instructors have diverse backgrounds and education. To work for Second Nature Wilderness Program you must be at least 19 years of age and have a high school diploma or equivalent. I want you to also be certified in Basic First Aid and CPR or greater (WFR, EMT).
Second Nature seeks people who have wilderness experience. It is preferable that you have fairly extensive backpacking experience. This experience can be either be professional or personal. You will be backpacking and hiking your entire shift anywhere from 2 to 8 miles a day with a backpack. Second Nature does not use cabins or have a ?base camp?; you will be moving campsites almost everyday.
Experience with youth, counseling, teaching, previous wilderness experience, or participation in similar activities will certainly improve your resume. Second Nature also offers in-house training from which you will be able to learn communication skills, crisis interventions, and many more tools that you will use working with teens. Second Nature will also ask that you make a commitment of working in the field for at least six to eight months.
19 years old and an high school diploma is going to fix your kid.
Here's the training for the above 19 year old:
What is the training?
The training is a seven- day period spent in the field, backpacking and learning with experienced trainers and other trainees. The training may be both emotionally and physically challenging. You will be hiking anywhere from 2 to 10 miles a day over medium to rugged terrain with a backpack the entire week. Second Nature trainers will ask you to be open, emotionally vulnerable, and as uncomfortable as you are willing to be. You will also have the chance to learn about the program experientially. You will participate in role modeling, experiencing the program as both the student and Field Instructor.
Your trainers will teach therapeutic interventions during the week. This includes communication and problem-solving skills, anger management techniques and how to appropriately confront students? issues. You will learn to use ?I Feel Statements? to express feelings and the concepts behind it to be able to teach it to the students.
The training is not a competition with the other trainees but a time for all to work as a team and interact in a healthy manner. The training is viewed as an interview process where you will be observed within the structure of the program. It is a time for you as a trainee to ?interview? the program as well. Participating in the training does not guarantee you a job, however, if you have been selected to participate in the training you have already met some of the requirements and Second Nature has high hopes for you to be hired; at the end of Training, you will know your employment status.
You backpack for 7 days and learn to make "I feel Statements." Wonderful.
Judge for yourself if this is professional help or just captive babysitting.
http://www.snwp.com/Subsubpages.asp?id=59 (http://www.snwp.com/Subsubpages.asp?id=59)
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The field staff at Second Nature are incredible. Most have college degrees and are capable and caring. They are NOT the therapists. They are the day to day link between the kids and the therapists and they speak with the therapists every day for instruction. The therapists are in the field with the kids two days a week. Only competent field staff are hired by Second Nature, so give up on this argument. You won't find anyone who can criticize this program who has actually been to it.
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Whoops --- forgot to sign in.
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On 2006-05-28 13:15:00, KarenInDallas wrote:
"Whoops --- forgot to sign in.
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:wave:
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Get fucked. I am not Karen. Oh, wait- anyone who knows anything about a program MUST be Karen. Otherwise, you might have to actually respond with something other than your little games. Have your all-knowing gods check the IP address. Not Karen. Not in. NOt Dallas. Not female.
Try again, asshole.
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Make sure it's a licensed and regualted facility first and following these guidlines.
http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_ ... &Itemid=35 (http://cafety.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=6&Itemid=35)
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Get fucked.
I do, plenty, thank you very much. (http://http://www.feebleminds-gifs.com/smiley-faces-85.gif)
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Fuck Vipers. No control feel, kinda porky, too expensive.
Get a C6 corvette or something, maybe a GTO if he wants a cushier car, if you want performance.
Or, as one of hte WWASPS big wigs was quick to point out, why not a new G35?
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What kind of pussy have you been getting? I gave my gf some cunnilingus for a while last night and made her cum, perhaps for the first time ever! It was great! Then I fucked hell out of her 'til I was sweating my balls off! WhAT a workout!! :tup:
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Good lord mate... you ate the hairy beav? Whilst taking a trip down furry muff ave did you ponder a spin by nipple pinch lane with a quick detour up Starfish Boulevard?
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To the parent who started this posting, you are asking your question on the wrong website. I want you to go to a parent website, Struggling Teens. There you will find the answers you need, not here where you can get advice about fucking.
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If the parent had any sense at all, he/she/it is already gone.
And not to Struggling Tools, either.
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On 2006-06-03 06:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
Good lord mate... you ate the hairy beav? Whilst taking a trip down furry muff ave did you ponder a spin by nipple pinch lane with a quick detour up Starfish Boulevard?
Yeah, it was some damned good fun my friend! :grin:
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You are asking the wrong question on the wrong website. Go to http://www.strugglingteens.com (http://www.strugglingteens.com), where you will get different answers from parents who have been through all of this.
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Umm.....Heres a thought!.....Try not sending your child anywhere and dealing with it..so quick to turn your child over to someone else..Be a Parent stick by them do what it takes but do not send your child away..Trust me eventually they do grow up..I was held at knifepoint..thrown agianst a wall called names..lied to,drugs ect..but I never turned her away,she is now a very respected young adult,yours can be also..Try researching the Child in puberty..Oh and yes it does last at least until they are 18.Understand some things your child is acting out on may not be in your control..but geez stand by them don't shove them off on especially these people who are not qualified to deal with Our Troubled children.More damage than good.
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Your mother's not in your control.
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Price to park and backpack at a national park: about $7 daily.
Price to ditch your kid so they can backpack in the middle of nowhere: $3000 and up.
Do YOU really think your kid will have a life changing experience for the better if you pay strangers to march them around the desert for a few weeks? Save your money. Better yet, save your child by cancelling your wilderness plans and your TBS plans. The TBS will be far more traumatic and damaging to your relationship than anything you have endured to date.
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I bet the "person" who asked the question and the "person" who answered are the same.
If not, they are the same in intention. They post ludicrous "questions" & "answers" designed to bury genuine survivor testimony and critisim.
What they are doing is similar to going to a civil rights forum and posing "questions" & "answers" about the latest info prooving Jewish inferiority