Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 24, 2006, 05:24:00 PM
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I have a child currently enrolled at HLA though
not for much longer. I was told of a girl who,
for her "Vulcan Challenge," was assigned by the
counselors to stand up in front of the entire
student body and recount, in detail, being raped.
Rape victims are sometimes not required to testify in open court, yet this poor girl was
forced to relive this horrific event in front
of everyone. Therapeutic? I don't think so. How
is this benefitting this girl? "tell us your
'issues' and we'll violate your confidence and further traumatize you."
It is so sad that parents believe themselves to
be helping their kids - most have no idea what
really goes on. I certainly did not know, but
once I found out I made the decision to withdraw
my child.
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Good choice. That story is fairly run of the mill for HLA.
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Who thought this one up?? What is wrong with these people? Just when I thought I could not get more disgusted.....
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On 2006-05-24 14:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
" I have a child currently enrolled at HLA though
not for much longer. I was told of a girl who,
for her "Vulcan Challenge," was assigned by the
counselors to stand up in front of the entire
student body and recount, in detail, being raped.
Rape victims are sometimes not required to testify in open court, yet this poor girl was
forced to relive this horrific event in front
of everyone. Therapeutic? I don't think so. How
is this benefitting this girl? "tell us your
'issues' and we'll violate your confidence and further traumatize you."
It is so sad that parents believe themselves to
be helping their kids - most have no idea what
really goes on. I certainly did not know, but
once I found out I made the decision to withdraw
my child. "
Unfortunately, this is the model that HLA uses for "treatment." It isn't just the seminars or special events. This is the system espoused by HLA.
Kids are re-victimized and traumatized by uethical, untrained, unprofessional staff who have no business working with kids if they can't understand the basic underlying premise that HLA's brand of "help" hurts. Period.
I am truly sorry that this young woman was subjected to such abject humiliation and degradation, but, parents, you should know going into it that this is what HLA does. Despite the protestations of supporters, nothing has changed in the last decade. It's the SAME GAME, just different faces and players.
I have seen young women called "slut" and "whore" because they "accepted" being raped (one by her own father). This is ignorant and twisted, but it's WHAT YOU'RE PAYING FOR, parents. Ultimately it is your fault because there is plenty of information readily available about HLA, and, more importantly, accepted, mainstream, research-proven effective treatment. Use your brains. Get out of the emotional vortex and do some rational, fact-based analysis BEFORE you hand your child over to people who will systematically abuse and taumatize them.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-05-25 07:39 ]
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CEDU technique.
HLA troll, care to elaborate/defend this technique? What is the perceived benefit to the kid?
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How can we? next topic, Parent so long we are better off with you gone.
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The troll has it right even without any real connection.
Any parent who questions the treatment their child recieves is deemed undesirable, the 100,000 is simply made up by slashing expenses like the water bill.
Kids can drink rain water and bathe in the lake.
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It takes absolutely no mental health training at all, NONE, to assess that this deleterious tactic is destablizing. No doubt whoever ordered her to do this must have been a man receiving vicarious pleasure from this unfortunate victim of a perverse form of involuntary pornography. All mental health workers have a duty under their association's ehtics guidelines to report this gross incompetence and negligent child care. It is ASTROUNDING that this place has a license of any sort. If I asked a twelve year whether someone should be forced to reveal a horrifying experience in front of people they don't trust, they would come up with the right answere.[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-05-25 17:49 ]
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***No doubt whoever ordered her to do this must have been a man receiving vicarious pleasure from this unfortunate victim of a perverse form of involuntary pornography.
Could've been, or just a sadistic person of either gender.
***All mental health workers have a duty under their association's ehtics guidelines to report this gross incompetence and negligent child care. It is ASTROUNDING that this place has a license of any sort.
This "place" doesn't possess a license. There is no outside entity monitoring or regulating their techniques. They can do pretty much what they want.
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Not for long......
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On 2006-05-25 17:43:00, Badpuppy wrote:
"It takes absolutely no mental health training at all, NONE, to assess that this deleterious tactic is destablizing. No doubt whoever ordered her to do this must have been a man receiving vicarious pleasure from this unfortunate victim of a perverse form of involuntary pornography. All mental health workers have a duty under their association's ehtics guidelines to report this gross incompetence and negligent child care. It is ASTROUNDING that this place has a license of any sort. If I asked a twelve year whether someone should be forced to reveal a horrifying experience in front of people they don't trust, they would come up with the right answere.[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-05-25 17:49 ]"
And yet this is how they have done "therapy" for the past decade. It's not the people, it's the system and it's incredibly damaging.
This is why their retention rate is falling below forty percent. After a workshop or two the parents see the damage/backslide/worsening condition, etc. and pull their kids out. This is why their "graduates" (less than forty percent) continue to have serious mental health issues including PTSD from being re-victimized and traumatized by hacks and quacks.
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Your mom is a hack and quack
209
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http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#197357 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=15553&forum=41&start=0#197357)
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On 2006-05-31 05:30:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-05-25 17:43:00, Badpuppy wrote:
"It takes absolutely no mental health training at all, NONE, to assess that this deleterious tactic is destablizing. No doubt whoever ordered her to do this must have been a man receiving vicarious pleasure from this unfortunate victim of a perverse form of involuntary pornography. All mental health workers have a duty under their association's ehtics guidelines to report this gross incompetence and negligent child care. It is ASTROUNDING that this place has a license of any sort. If I asked a twelve year whether someone should be forced to reveal a horrifying experience in front of people they don't trust, they would come up with the right answere.[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-05-25 17:49 ]"
And yet this is how they have done "therapy" for the past decade. It's not the people, it's the system and it's incredibly damaging.
This is why their retention rate is falling below forty percent. After a workshop or two the parents see the damage/backslide/worsening
condition, etc. and pull their kids out. This is why their "graduates" (less than forty percent) continue to have serious mental health issues including PTSD from being re-victimized and traumatized by hacks and quacks.
"
Yes, parents are always looking for the ancedotal tales of success or failure without the sophistication to realize that damage is endemic to this therapuetic model.
1) Kids health and safty is inevitably comprised by the dearth of regulation.
2) The absense of regulation allows greed and avarice to take precedence over clinical judgement.
3) The isolation and artificial environment of this therapuetic miliue exacerbates symtomology and desensitizes residents who need to develop emphathy and compassion as important relationship skills.
4) The ridgitity of the system is unable to accomodate the unique treatment needs of every child. They are individual treatment plans in name only. Control and obediance to authority is what these places are about, resulting in a teen warehouse. The growth of self control and real relationship skills are retarded. The feelings of depersonalization and objectification are intensified.
5) The system is self-perpetuating and recidivist in that it hires counselors without the experience or professional skill to understand the negative inpact of this institutional quagmire. When conduct is questioned dissent is crushed. Staff turnover is very high. The one counselor who attempted to address my question was clueless about the concept of "working it through" Any freshman psychology student, could exemplify this. The incompetence is uttterly shocking. I was left apoplectic. I was asking about the treatment of sexual identity issues, not leprosy, although judging by how fast they ran from it they might as well be the same. This is Frankentherapy, a therapy so far from objective reality it has no psychological validity.
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Well said, and accurate.
One thing:
They are individual treatment plans in name only.
HLA does not provide treatment planning. Only some attendees are psychologically evaluated. Their website even states that Ed Cons may make a diagnosis of ODD and they will accept that child based on the dx of an Ed Con.
This is a two-faceted problem. One, kids are not tested, diagnosed and treated accordingly by licensed providers and two, if they actually did provide treatment planning, it would be a violation of ORS regulations regarding "private boarding schools," as they are forbidden to perform treatment planning.
They are very big on saying HLA "falls between" a school and a treatment center. This is true in one respect: they provide niether an education nor treatment.
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when i was there, the purpose of a vulcan challenge was to force you to come out of your "shell".
for part of mine, i had to write a song on the guitar and basically make an asshole of myself because my counselors knew damn well that at the time, i couldnt even play a note right. honestly, i dont even remember the other part. oh well. shows how much benefit it did me. other kids in my peer group had to sing and dance and basically make mockeries of themselves for the entertainment of the counselors. although i didnt see anything particularly traumatizing occur, but then again, for all i know it did, i slept during every other pgs vulcan challenge, i do know that what i got out of these "challenges" was that the staff had a good laugh at the kids and there was no fucking theraputic value in singing and dancing to "tears of a clown". this place is ridiculous.
dan pg26
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Hehe. I had to dance with ribbon dancers dressed in all white to the song "True Colors". It was frickin hilarious.
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What did either of you think at the time, the purpose of this 'therapeutic' activity was?
Sounds like a mandatory talent show and someone else picks your activity?
'Forced' seems to be the key word, and how do you 'force' someone out of their shell?
How could it have been more fun and more effect, if at all?
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Well, first off its not supposed to be fun for anyone but the spectators. The reason behind my "challenge" was because I used to be like, a "goth" or whatever when I was like 13. And they thought that the way to get me out of that mindset was to make me dress in all white and play with rainbow streamers in front of the student body. In reality, the goth crap was just a phase I went thru in early HS years and had absolutely nothing to do with why I was sent away. I mean all kids go thru wierd phases with the way they dress and act. But they focused on that as my main issue. So that was their reasoning for my challenge. There were 2 others (everyone gets 3 challenges) but I cant remember what they were.
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it is s shame but there are probably no staff there who even know what the vulcan challenge was meant to do especially if they come up with a traumatizing idea like this..i am disgusted reading about it. i am a former staff who left during one of HLA's famous purges but i can tell you that a vulcan challenge could be a good one if it was created right. the "performance" of the challenge had little to do with it. the challenge came form the moment they were told what they were going to do. it should be creative and open ended so they students can be creative. having a young girl sing i feel pretty and dance to it after spending years and years under that insecurity was not a bad...though many of you will tear it apart, but how she handled it with grace even though she wanted to run was wonderful to watch. she came up to after and said she had never had a chance to dance before and her confidence was so much stronger now. HLA does not have the staff who understands the meaning of what they are teaching if they are doing horrific things and it is a shame because it could be good.
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On 2006-06-05 15:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"it is s shame but there are probably no staff there who even know what the vulcan challenge was meant to do especially if they come up with a traumatizing idea like this..i am disgusted reading about it. i am a former staff who left during one of HLA's famous purges but i can tell you that a vulcan challenge could be a good one if it was created right. the "performance" of the challenge had little to do with it. the challenge came form the moment they were told what they were going to do. it should be creative and open ended so they students can be creative. having a young girl sing i feel pretty and dance to it after spending years and years under that insecurity was not a bad...though many of you will tear it apart, but how she handled it with grace even though she wanted to run was wonderful to watch. she came up to after and said she had never had a chance to dance before and her confidence was so much stronger now. HLA does not have the staff who understands the meaning of what they are teaching if they are doing horrific things and it is a shame because it could be good. "
And I will tear it apart. Forcing such a performance on a shy person could easily be far more humiliating and traumatizing than helpful. In fact, I can't imagine it ever being any kind of real 'therapy.' No one should ever be forced to mock themselves. That's just cruel. This is just one more example of a program having absolutely no idea what they are doing.
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On 2006-06-01 16:37:00, Deborah wrote:
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What did either of you think at the time, the purpose of this 'therapeutic' activity was?
Sounds like a mandatory talent show and someone else picks your activity?
'Forced' seems to be the key word, and how do you 'force' someone out of their shell?
How could it have been more fun and more effect, if at all?"
FUnny thats exactly what it was. No benefit whatsoever. Then again what at HLA does?
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On 2006-06-05 19:47:00, AtomicAnt wrote:
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On 2006-06-05 15:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"it is s shame but there are probably no staff there who even know what the vulcan challenge was meant to do especially if they come up with a traumatizing idea like this..i am disgusted reading about it. i am a former staff who left during one of HLA's famous purges but i can tell you that a vulcan challenge could be a good one if it was created right. the "performance" of the challenge had little to do with it. the challenge came form the moment they were told what they were going to do. it should be creative and open ended so they students can be creative. having a young girl sing i feel pretty and dance to it after spending years and years under that insecurity was not a bad...though many of you will tear it apart, but how she handled it with grace even though she wanted to run was wonderful to watch. she came up to after and said she had never had a chance to dance before and her confidence was so much stronger now. HLA does not have the staff who understands the meaning of what they are teaching if they are doing horrific things and it is a shame because it could be good. "
And I will tear it apart. Forcing such a performance on a shy person could easily be far more humiliating and traumatizing than helpful. In fact, I can't imagine it ever being any kind of real 'therapy.' No one should ever be forced to mock themselves. That's just cruel. This is just one more example of a program having absolutely no idea what they are doing."
There can be danger in any kind of therapy if the therapist does not know what they are doing. I was there for the girl that was given this challenge to sing "I feel pretty". It was a very positive experience for her. Was she scared and nervous at first? Yes. But, she overcame her insecurities with the help of sensitive and capable counselors and a very supportive Peer Group. She ended up gaining a lot of confidence through the experience. I do see the other side of that, however. Given a counselor who does not know what they are doing, it could be a damaging experience. That is why it is so important for schools like this to employ effective, licensed counselors.
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There can be danger in any kind of therapy if the therapist does not know what they are doing. I was there for the girl that was given this challenge to sing "I feel pretty". It was a very positive experience for her. Was she scared and nervous at first? Yes. But, she overcame her insecurities with the help of sensitive and capable counselors and a very supportive Peer Group. She ended up gaining a lot of confidence through the experience. I do see the other side of that, however. Given a counselor who does not know what they are doing, it could be a damaging experience. That is why it is so important for schools like this to employ effective, licensed counselors.
I'm not buying it. I get very suspicious of program speak. Did she overcome her insecurities, or was she forced to do this? Could she have declined participation without any repercussions?
And, who is to say this really worked or just appeared to help? I have been through a few of these types of exercises, and thought they were helpful at the time, but after (weeks, months, years) reflection were pretty useless and downright silly.
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"I'm not buying it. I get very suspicious of program speak. Did she overcome her insecurities, or was she forced to do this? Could she have declined participation without any repercussions?
And, who is to say this really worked or just appeared to help? I have been through a few of these types of exercises, and thought they were helpful at the time, but after (weeks, months, years) reflection were pretty useless and downright silly."
The same can be said for any kind of therapy. How much it is internalized and affects someone for the positive is largely up to the individual. My point is that this individual was certainly not damaged through this experience and it made her look at herself differently for a while. Whether or not she chose to continue looking at herself in a more positive way years later is her decision and will certainly be affected by other life experiences and decisions she makes. Again, I do see how an exercise like this, or any other therapeutic exercise, can be harmful when facilitated by an inexperienced and unskilled therapist.
Fixed quote tag...[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-06-10 20:48 ]
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The same can be said for any kind of therapy. How much it is internalized and affects someone for the positive is largely up to the individual. My point is that this individual was certainly not damaged through this experience and it made her look at herself differently for a while. Whether or not she chose to continue looking at herself in a more positive way years later is her decision and will certainly be affected by other life experiences and decisions she makes. Again, I do see how an exercise like this, or any other therapeutic exercise, can be harmful when facilitated by an inexperienced and unskilled therapist."
Take a look at your last statement and then think about all the turnover lately at HLA. The undertrained, inexperienced, unskilled transients going thru that place are in charge of facilitating these intensely personal and highly subjective and suggestive sessions all done in front of a group of other kids. Recipe for disaster.
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Again, I do see how an exercise like this, or any other therapeutic exercise, can be harmful when facilitated by an inexperienced and unskilled therapist.
HLA has only a single licensed counselor. I can't see how any of their other personnel can be viewed as "therapists." Most don't even have a mental health-related degree.
Therefore, this type of "therapy" (I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment, but that's a different issue) should never be practiced at HLA, as every single counselor (save for one) is not educated or qualified to perform therapy of any kind, would you not agree?
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As frequently happens, this discussion has moved from a girl who was forced to stand before her peers and recount the details of a rape?. To a girl who sang i feel pretty and danced to it.
The original poster wrote:
I was told of a girl who, for her "Vulcan Challenge," was assigned by the
counselors to stand up in front of the entire student body and recount, in detail, being raped. Rape victims are sometimes not required to testify in open court, yet this poor girl was forced to relive this horrific event in front of everyone. Therapeutic? I don't think so. How is this benefitting this girl? "tell us your
'issues' and we'll violate your confidence and further traumatize you."
It?s not like these kids are playing charades with a group of caring friends, or divulging their deepest wounds to a trusted friend.
Who decides what the ?issue? is and presents the challenge?
Who makes the assessment that the kid is stable enough to divulge intimate details of a rape or any other abuse, or ready to challenge a long standing fear or insecurity?
Is it a requirement or a dare?
What happens if they refuse?
What happens if they crash and burn, and more humiliation is heaped on what already exsisted?
A therapist can challenge- encourage and support- a client to ride a roller coaster in hopes of helping him overcome his fear, but they can?t ?force? him. Kids in programs aren?t given this consideration. Why?
Is there research to support this ?therapy? or is it more of Wasserman?s ?experimental?, confrontational therapy like the infamous Profeets?
http://www.heal-online.org/cedu.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/cedu.htm)
once in a profeet they made a black boy wash Michaels feet. Michael thought he was like God , he called him the N word while this person washed his feet. They would accuse the boys of performing beastility acts on the animals, I dont know for fact if that happened but I was told it did as a punishement for the boys. I was blamed for my mother's death. I actually grew up after that believing that my actions as a Teen caused her to die, when in all reality, I was acting out because when I was 5yrs old, i was in a foster home, and was molested continually. I never said anything, until it was too late. We would remain in these Profeets until everyone snapped and I never recall any food in there, we did get bathroom breaks and water breaks.
To the ex HLA counselor posting- what genre of therapy does this "exercise" come from? What were you taught in college about forcing patients to divulge sensitive material in front of their peers? How were you trained by HLA?
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I am the ex-counselor that has been posting. I whole heartedly agree that forcing a kid to detail the accounts of her rape is wrong and offers no benefit to the child. I am amazed if a child was forced to do this. I also agree that the counselors at HLA need to be better trained. I do not think the have to all be licensed, because you have to be in the field for three years before you get your license. What does need to happen is that HLA needs to have several licensed staff that are giving direct day to day supervision of the non-licensed staff. Currently, HLA has one person doing the supervision of all their counselors. That is an impossible situation and a detriment to the kids. Dr. Buccellato will never put forth the money that it would take to properly supervise all of the counselors at HLA.
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To hell with all of that licensing crap -- that's for eggheads and "professionals". Professional help, my ASS! :roll:
You want to get a kid straight? Make him face his peers; they are the only ones who will be tough on him! After all, "you can't con a con" as they say.
_________________
http://fornits.com/SIBS (http://fornits.com/SIBS)
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HLA has one person doing the supervision of all their counselors. That is an impossible situation and a detriment to the kids. Dr. Buccellato will never put forth the money that it would take to properly supervise all of the counselors at HLA.
You said a mouthful there, Jack.
Yet another ex-staffer corroborating what I'm saying. We can't all be wrong...
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Who decides what the ?issue? is and presents the challenge? Licensed, un-licensed?
Who makes the assessment that the kid is stable enough to divulge intimate details of a rape or any other abuse, or ready to challenge a long standing fear or insecurity?
What happens if they crash and burn, and more humiliation is heaped on what already exsisted?
What genre of therapy does this "exercise" come from?
What were you taught in college about forcing patients to divulge sensitive material in front of their peers?
How were you trained by HLA?
Who's approval is required before a challenge is issued?
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On 2006-06-08 09:21:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
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HLA has one person doing the supervision of all their counselors. That is an impossible situation and a detriment to the kids. Dr. Buccellato will never put forth the money that it would take to properly supervise all of the counselors at HLA.
You said a mouthful there, Jack.
Yet another ex-staffer corroborating what I'm saying. We can't all be wrong...
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Whether Right or Wrong, I beleive your are dead on the money, HLA is banking that you and everyone here is not going to make a difference. Until the press gets involved , or a mass parental come to jesus meeting with school or a lawsuit happens HLA is banking on you will not make a difference.
you want to hurt HLA , hit thier referal source, the consultants. Start a negative campaign to education the press in each of their home towns and get corroberation from ed con that have seen the truth, the kocerecks, Ann Carol Price, BJ hopper, mary consoli, cammi burtrams of the world.
Then you shall have an impact.
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Thanks Deborah, You ran with where I was going and you know more about it.
These 'challenges' are not really therapeutic. So what if she saw herself differently for a time? Who cares? These exercises appear to work because they elicit a strong emotional response. What they don't do is provide any kind of tools that a person can incorporate into long term growth and change.
Now that Deborah brings in the story of a rape victim forced to recount the trauma, she has confirmed my suspicions. This is still just confrontational therapy. Confrontational Therapy (or attack therapy) was discredited 30 years ago as being harmful.
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I would love to read any studies that you know of that discredit confrontation in therapy. Please let me know your source, or sources, so that we can all become more educated on the topic.
Also, do you see confrontation and skillfull challenging as the same thing in therapy?
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http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/brk_fringepsych.htm (http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/brk_fringepsych.htm)
"Attack therapy is an outgrowth of ventilation therapy. Here the patient becomes the subject of verbal abuse, denunciation, and humiliation. This assault may come either from the therapist in individual session, or from peers in a group context.... As one critic put it, 'Tact is "out" and brutal frankness is "in." Any phony, defensive or evasive behavior... is fair game for... critique and verbal attack."
Sitting on the hot seat and verbal confrontation emerged from "human potential" centers, and were used extensively in LGATs:
"Another variant of the confrontation therapies appeared in the commercially sold large group awareness training programs such as Mind Dynamics... and Lifespring..... Marketed to individuals, organizations, and business and industry as experiential education, they typically use powerful psychological and social influence techniques, not always bringing about the advertised claims of success and profit to the buyer, and sometimes bringing psychological distress to the clients" (Pp. 113-114).
It is noteworthy to mention that every single program that uses "seminars," "propheets," "marathons," "workshops" - call them what you will - employs harmful derivations of the Lifespring LGATs, a concept that was completely discredited by mental health professionals decades ago.
Also, do you see confrontation and skillfull challenging as the same thing in therapy?
No trained therapist would view these two concepts as similar.
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In regards to the difference between confrontation and skillfull chanllenging, I sometimes think that confrontation is what people think entirely goes on at Hidden Lake, and in the early days I would tend to agree. While I was at Hidden Lake, I saw both. Again, this is why any program like this needs experienced, licensed therapist.
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On 2006-06-09 05:59:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/brk_fringepsych.htm
"Attack therapy is an outgrowth of ventilation therapy. Here the patient becomes the subject of verbal abuse, denunciation, and humiliation. This assault may come either from the therapist in individual session, or from peers in a group context.... As one critic put it, 'Tact is "out" and brutal frankness is "in." Any phony, defensive or evasive behavior... is fair game for... critique and verbal attack."
Sitting on the hot seat and verbal confrontation emerged from "human potential" centers, and were used extensively in LGATs:
"Another variant of the confrontation therapies appeared in the commercially sold large group awareness training programs such as Mind Dynamics... and Lifespring..... Marketed to individuals, organizations, and business and industry as experiential education, they typically use powerful psychological and social influence techniques, not always bringing about the advertised claims of success and profit to the buyer, and sometimes bringing psychological distress to the clients" (Pp. 113-114).
It is noteworthy to mention that every single program that uses "seminars," "propheets," "marathons," "workshops" - call them what you will - employs harmful derivations of the Lifespring LGATs, a concept that was completely discredited by mental health professionals decades ago.
Also, do you see confrontation and skillfull challenging as the same thing in therapy?
No trained therapist would view these two concepts as similar.
"
Though I agree with some of the things stated in this paper, it is not a scientific study as much as it is an opinion. Again, I think(and this is just my opinion, not scientific) these exercises can be either good or bad depending on the professional that is facilitating them. It is not the type of therapy as much as it is the ones facilitating it. This brings us back to the point that Len Buccellato will never spend the money it will take, nor create the type of healthy work environment it will take, to attract and keep people that can effectively pull off this type of therapy.
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Again, I think(and this is just my opinion, not scientific) these exercises can be either good or bad depending on the professional that is facilitating them
I guess we just disagree professionally here. I really see no benefit from these exercises. Even if there is some benefit when facilitated by educated, experienced therapists, it surely isn't the best method available - not by a long shot.
This brings us back to the point that Len Buccellato will never spend the money it will take, nor create the type of healthy work environment it will take, to attract and keep people that can effectively pull off this type of therapy.
Now this we can agree on...
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In my time there if an inmate did not perform their vulcan challenge up to snuff they were automatically dropped.
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I had to do a a Vulcan Challenge. I wasn't allowed to go hom if I refused. I had to sing and dance to some song by 10,000 Maniacs and I didn't feel any better for it, I felt like a total asshole.
I don't blame HLA though. I blame the parents. Or atleast, I blame my parents. When a 13 year old acts out, it's because they want their mommy and daddy. Don't pump them full of meds and send them up the river because you don't have the time to deal with it. Get plugged in to your child's life
When I got out of HLA, I found out that both of my parents smoke crack. Really.. I think that might be the real reason I got sent away.
Don't get me wrong though, HLA is a crazy mixed up place. The only thing it gave me was bragging rights.
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My name is Alex Cohen, PG 31 (from above)
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On 2006-06-09 11:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-06-09 05:59:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/brk_fringepsych.htm
"Attack therapy is an outgrowth of ventilation therapy. Here the patient becomes the subject of verbal abuse, denunciation, and humiliation. This assault may come either from the therapist in individual session, or from peers in a group context.... As one critic put it, 'Tact is "out" and brutal frankness is "in." Any phony, defensive or evasive behavior... is fair game for... critique and verbal attack."
Sitting on the hot seat and verbal confrontation emerged from "human potential" centers, and were used extensively in LGATs:
"Another variant of the confrontation therapies appeared in the commercially sold large group awareness training programs such as Mind Dynamics... and Lifespring..... Marketed to individuals, organizations, and business and industry as experiential education, they typically use powerful psychological and social influence techniques, not always bringing about the advertised claims of success and profit to the buyer, and sometimes bringing psychological distress to the clients" (Pp. 113-114).
It is noteworthy to mention that every single program that uses "seminars," "propheets," "marathons," "workshops" - call them what you will - employs harmful derivations of the Lifespring LGATs, a concept that was completely discredited by mental health professionals decades ago.
Also, do you see confrontation and skillfull challenging as the same thing in therapy?
No trained therapist would view these two concepts as similar.
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Though I agree with some of the things stated in this paper, it is not a scientific study as much as it is an opinion. Again, I think(and this is just my opinion, not scientific) these exercises can be either good or bad depending on the professional that is facilitating them. It is not the type of therapy as much as it is the ones facilitating it. This brings us back to the point that Len Buccellato will never spend the money it will take, nor create the type of healthy work environment it will take, to attract and keep people that can effectively pull off this type of therapy."
Artificially manufactured attacks, where an attack is part of an encounter exercise is inappropriate for incarcerated juveniles. Juveniles attack each other enough in group encounters without having to make a game of it. What they need to develop is emphathy, compassion and support for each other. It is in fact TACT that they need to learn. They need to learn a skill set that allows them to give and recieve criticism without alienating their social and business relationships. They need to learn how to pick up social cues without being hit by a blunt object. They need to learn how to experientially relate to the people in their social environment. They need to learn how to express vulnerability, and that vulerability can be turned into a strenth. They need to learn the value of humor and self-deprication in expressing an idea. Attack exercises are counterproductive for the needs of this population. When you start playing attack games the group proccess itself becomes less real, and more distant-- in essence just another way to manipulate, con, and get over.
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Alex, you may blame your parents, but not all parents are crack smoking missing persons. The parent cannot live the child's life, in any case. They should be as involved as possible, and I agree that a lot of the issue is parents "not having enough time to deal with it". But children out of control, and they can be, is a mindbending thing to most parents. You can say you are there until you are blue in the face, the kids rarely tell you what is really up, you have to see behind the scenes, and that is personally invasive. Much of being a teen is exploring boundaries, I explored plenty myself. It seems to me that today the boundaries are often ignored wholesale, and the parents feel helpless.
Places like HLA *appear*to offer the parents a solution. I am not defending it at all...but that is what it looks like when you are in the maelstrom. When the child "acting out" is destroying the family, and all it has and stands for, the parents have to take some action, they must. It is only after your child is incarcerated there, that you begin to understand just how far they go to isolate the child from you. The warning should be in the papers you sign. Sadly, I think many parents want relief so much, they will sign anything, and pray that it works. I know in my case, the child was deeply loved by all involved.
I hope you can understand the anguish a parent can have in the aftermath of this. Would that life be more simple at times.
As for the Vulcan Challenge, I think that kind of approach can work for some, but the persons initiating the requirement need to be absolutely sure it's right for the child involved, because so many kids can be damaged by it as well. I sure would have been, had I been subjected to anything like that. I would have done anything I could to get out of it, I know exactly what you mean, feeling like a "total asshole". Been there.
Once again, highly skilled, caring,empathatic therapists are needed, and my experience was that they weren't there when needed at HLA.
When a 13 yr. old acts out, do you really think it is usually because they want mommy and daddy? I have been thinking about that since you posted it.
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***It is only after your child is incarcerated there, that you begin to understand just how far they go to isolate the child from you. The warning should be in the papers you sign.
The degree of isolation from parents and family was a red flag for me and all the professionals I consulted with.
I received a call out of the blue when my ex enrolled our son wihtout my knowledge. As they ourlined the rules for contact I was shocked. I asked if they were a psychiatric hospital. No, a therapeutic boarding school.
Then how could they sever contact between my son and I without a court order?
They had dx'd him with ODD based on his father's complaints.
The rest of the horrid, two year nightmare is posted in this forum.
What happened to make you question this policy? When did it dawn on you that they were isolating your child from you?
Since I never saw the contract my ex signed, what do parents agree to?
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way too much is what they agree to. It doesn't seem to you at the time that the isolation will be as extreme as it is. It may be that some parents are intitially glad to get a troubled kid away from the home, the home can be pretty devastated by the child. You assume, wrongly, that while isolated, the kids are getting superb counseling, but they're not as far as I could tell. Some counseling appeared to be good, but for what they charge, it should be as good as it gets.
HLA looked good on paper, but I wish I had looked for negatives at the onset, I usually do. I never would have voted yes.
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On 2006-06-12 15:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Alex, you may blame your parents, but not all parents are crack smoking missing persons. The parent cannot live the child's life, in any case. They should be as involved as possible, and I agree that a lot of the issue is parents "not having enough time to deal with it". But children out of control, and they can be, is a mindbending thing to most parents. You can say you are there until you are blue in the face, the kids rarely tell you what is really up, you have to see behind the scenes, and that is personally invasive. Much of being a teen is exploring boundaries, I explored plenty myself. It seems to me that today the boundaries are often ignored wholesale, and the parents feel helpless.
Places like HLA *appear*to offer the parents a solution. I am not defending it at all...but that is what it looks like when you are in the maelstrom. When the child "acting out" is destroying the family, and all it has and stands for, the parents have to take some action, they must. It is only after your child is incarcerated there, that you begin to understand just how far they go to isolate the child from you. The warning should be in the papers you sign. Sadly, I think many parents want relief so much, they will sign anything, and pray that it works. I know in my case, the child was deeply loved by all involved.
I hope you can understand the anguish a parent can have in the aftermath of this. Would that life be more simple at times.
As for the Vulcan Challenge, I think that kind of approach can work for some, but the persons initiating the requirement need to be absolutely sure it's right for the child involved, because so many kids can be damaged by it as well. I sure would have been, had I been subjected to anything like that. I would have done anything I could to get out of it, I know exactly what you mean, feeling like a "total asshole". Been there.
Once again, highly skilled, caring,empathatic therapists are needed, and my experience was that they weren't there when needed at HLA.
When a 13 yr. old acts out, do you really think it is usually because they want mommy and daddy? I have been thinking about that since you posted it."
As much as I hate to say it, you're entitled to your opinion.
If I didn't really think a 13 year old kid wanted their mommy and daddy when they acted out... I wouldn't have said it.
Also, it's one thing to say you're there for your kid, it's also another to do it. And I'm all for parents going through their kids' stuff to do so. If a 13 year old child has the power to destroy the family..it probabily has nothing to do with the kid.
When I see a minor walking down the street at 11am on a school day dressed like a whore, setting fires, doing drugs or having permiscous sex..I ask myself where are her parents. I'm not like oh look at that fucked up juvenile deliquent, they need to be locked up, they're destroying everything. THEY'RE KIDS!! Where do you think they get it from?
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I also feel you are entitled to your opinion,but, I do not hate saying it. I thank you for posting it, so others can learn.
I also ask "where are the parents?". But, the parents cannot spend 24 hrs a day in close physical contact with the child. At 11AM on a schoolday, they are likely working so the family has food on the table, a roof over their heads, and cars to get them around. Parents have many responsiblities to juggle. Where do I think the kids get it from? The complete society around them , not just the parents, not just the peers. parents try to help the kids make good choices. They were kids once, too. They often have perspective as a child and as an adult.
I have seen parents comfortable with daughters dressed like hookers, but far more parents that told the daughters "no", and why.As for the mini hookers, the kids merely kept clothes elsewhere and changed after leaving home.
I think searching the child's stuff is a last resort. Teenagers need to learn respect for others property, to invade theirs teaches the opposite. I don't wish myself or my children to live in a world of spying.
And last, I am the last person to say "lock them up" I was trying to convey what can lead to a loving parent sending a child to a joint like HLA. I pointed out I was no fan, and I am not. A child screaming at the mother until the mother's head physically shakes, is a truly terrifying thing to behold. It gets to where the mom has stress syndrome, and she cannot parent then. When you love them both, it is very hard, you have to think of all of you, not just one. They are excruciating questions, and good parents try their utmost to never shirk their duties as parents. They sometimes fail, they are human-but they do their utmost. And where's the Dad? often the moms are single, often dad is at work, and often dad steps in, there are many scenarios. Often dad comes home later, and simply cannot believe his wife and child could have had such a thing happen. There are no simple answers.
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But is HLA the right solution?
Probably not.
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You're just one excuse after another. Whatever.. this is gay.
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No, RB, I do NOT think HLA is the solution. I hate locking up anybody unless injury is resulting.
I don't have the answers, that's my point. I haven't seen that anyone else did, either. You can't just "let kids be kids", society doesn't accept the mayhem that results. You can't expect parents to always do the right thing whatever it is. My best guess would be intensive counseling with caring people, and heavily involved parents. That's mighty hard to ensure. But, there are situations where the parents and children need to be separatedfor any number of reasons. They must be brouight back together as soon as possible, my opinion. HLA seems to delight in maintaining control and separation.
I detest what HLA has done to so many. I personally hope they are held accountable, to whatever extent they can be.
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Amen to that.