Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 30, 2002, 11:25:00 PM
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my brother died of a heroin suicide in 97. newton screwed him up so bad that when he did seek help he was incabable of trusting a mental health care practioner. i support your cause. my heart is with you all. What ever happened to the other jerk ruth ann newton?
eric smith
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I'm sorry to hear that your brother died of a heroin overdose.... my brother died as well and its weird but it was also in 1997... my heart goes out to you. ::mecry::
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Eric, please email me. I'm writing a chapter in my book on former clients who committed suicde after Kids/Straight. Please email me additional data at wesfager@thestraights.com
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I'm sorry to hear of your loss.
I was friends with an aaron after I escaped in 97. Last names are getting so hazy with time.
The aaron I was friends with lived near Emerson Riveredge. That town is hazy also.
Was that your brother?
Either way it's tragic. My heart goes out to you. I'm so sorry.
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While I certainly wouldn`t want to belittle the death of your brother, Eric, I do have to comment on the"its all kids fault" mentality. Aarron came up to Kids, oh I guess around `87, after he relapsed and we tried to talk with him and help in an almost casual way. Now mind you this was way before things got really crazy,so you late 80`s and 90`s can zip it! Your brother sad but true didn`t have the much needed humility the recovery process requires for successful consumation. It truly wasn`t a trust issue, when the individual is desparate enough,the desire to get help and change will supercede any fear that inhibits ones recovery. Blaming Kids for our troubles today is very convenient, I find quit a bit on this site and usually the ones who aren`t assuming the victim role in their lives are the ones who`s lives are marked with success. Healthy relationships,self searching and introspection, a degree of humility and altruism, and an all around sense of positive good will toward all. "By their fruits you shall know them" take care Eric, my best to the rest, and remember, as adults,we are where we are bassed on the choices we have made.
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On 2003-09-09 15:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
" While I certainly wouldn`t want to belittle the death of your brother, Eric, I do have to comment on the"its all kids fault" mentality. Aarron came up to Kids, oh I guess around `87, after he relapsed and we tried to talk with him and help in an almost casual way. Now mind you this was way before things got really crazy,so you late 80`s and 90`s can zip it! Your brother sad but true didn`t have the much needed humility the recovery process requires for successful consumation. It truly wasn`t a trust issue, when the individual is desparate enough,the desire to get help and change will supercede any fear that inhibits ones recovery. Blaming Kids for our troubles today is very convenient, I find quit a bit on this site and usually the ones who aren`t assuming the victim role in their lives are the ones who`s lives are marked with success. Healthy relationships,self searching and introspection, a degree of humility and altruism, and an all around sense of positive good will toward all. "By their fruits you shall know them" take care Eric, my best to the rest, and remember, as adults,we are where we are bassed on the choices we have made."
Sorry, but I have to disagree here.
What you say is true about an addict needing an amount of humility to realize defeat at the hands of an addiction. No argument there.
You can't honestly argue that Kids was condusive to recovery in any shape or form. I was able to be more honestly introspective in US Army Basic Training than in Kids. The "empathy" wasn't out of genuine care in most cases, but out of paranoia or following the Kids line simply because that's what needs to be done.
I've seen true empathy at work and how therapeutic it is. I've seen drunks in AA on the verge of DTs on Christmas Eve and welcomed openly into an AA club, given coffee and food & an open ear or a couch to nap on.
As a genereal rule, I don't think anyone in Kids cared about anyone else. I don't believe the Newtons, McCormacks (from El Paso) or anyone else on staff OR in group cared. We were in survival mode as Kids clients/victims/patients, doing what we had to do to better our position within the confines of that environment. It's the same mode that the Donner family were in when they ate each other to survive a brutal Sierra Nevada blizzard way back when.
Selfish? You bet. But it's what keeps us alive. And that selfish focus on self (right, wrong or indifferent) makes Kids that much more of a fucked-up place to "get help". The 'all around positive sense of good will toward all' that you cite as necessary for recovery to take root was NEVER in Kids that I could tell. Granted I'm from that crazy time of the late 80s/early 90s, but it didn't change that much through the years... Lulu would confirm that, I'm certain. She's seen it all.
I'm sorry that Newton can be attributed to another loss of a valuable life. That sickens me. Eric, I'm sorry your brother took his life. That's got to be the most horrible experience for a family member to endure, and I sincerely hope you and your family are able to move on and grow.
I won't bullshit you and say I understand and know how you feel because I honestly don't. I have no siblings to lose, but if I did, it would hurt like a mother-fucker.
[ This Message was edited by: John Olsakovsky on 2003-09-09 17:46 ]
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John, your ignorant. Your views are liberal and shallow, you have nothing to offer except how NOT to think. Your stint at kids was brief, you have no imperical opinion. You have nothing I want in life.Stop acting like an expert, you and many others are just a flash in the pan. So please keep your fucking mouth shut.
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I forgot to mention in my last post John, I was there before Lulu, cindy and george. And was there long after they left. Funny, I don`t remember seeing you there during the elvolution. Still very bemused and curious as to how you`ve become so confident in your meer conjectures about the kids program. How could you have ascertained all this knowledge without the practical experience I wonder. Hear say maybe.You are inept and inexperienced and must have some really low self esteem to spend so much energy and time trying to look important to your captive audience by asseverating superfluous points. You fool no one. I abhor your expatiating. remember "those who know the least, tend to speak the most."
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With regards to the last post....
Hey Newt Boy or Bitch, you must have really had some time on your hands to look up all those "big" words in a dictionary and actually make them work. Did you stay up all night? Let me ask, did you even get your GED yet? Did you look at a "druggie" word while you were in that dictionary that made you feel guilty? Maybe you should write a MI & get feedback at one of your 7th stepper meetings. Or maybe, get Father Asswipe Cassian to give you some insight! He could be a bit busy trying to figure out the whole bankrupt thing! You truly are a pathetic person and you know it!
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I understand everyones point of veiw. I don`t find it nesseary to knock each other. I use to defend KIDS as well even though I was not there anymore. It`s everything I belvived in for a long part of my life. It was scary to feel any different. So I understand some of the defence of Kids. But I don`t believe in knocking someones confidence when they have been hurt by Miller and are resentful [no matter the length of time they spent there]....they need to be where there at,in order to except their experience. If you feel you moved on , then GREAT . Feel greatful for that. By knocking another is not what will get them to see the other side.{thats KIDS beheivor, [that you were tought}Open your heart. We all can`t be at the same place with our experiences...Because they were all different experiences. We all re-act to things differnetly and that stems from childhood.
I`m not saying not to state your opnion`s, but you can with out slamming others.
Your anger tells me, there is growth there for you to do....I only know from experience.I do not judge you, You are not alone.This is an on going process.Be kind to yourself and others.
Be Open To New Ideas
Wishing you all strenght & love.....
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I appreciate the last post, every one is at a different place in their journey and you really can`t force any one to see the truth unless they are ready. The previous post responding to Johns post I hate to say was pretty accurate. It kinda sums up the feeling I get when I read some of the comments. There appears to be quite a bit of blaming Kids for post kids tradgedies.And since I was one of the first ten people in that place I`ve seen just about every body come and go. So I have a pretty good idea about just how much the ones who claim to have suffered so much abuse really did. While I can not support the poster with the copious flow and the condesending remarks,you have to admit most of these "regulars around here" are pretty lost.
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I just found this site and happened to read the string of messages regarding this topic. First, I am sorry to the sibling who lost his brother to suicide. I have caused my family great loss through intentional overdoses through the years. I ended up in a coma once that I am sure God is the ONLY reason I am alive and functioning today.
Let me qualify myself to comment about KIDS... I was in KIDS of North Jersey for only 9 months in 1997. However, I was in Straight Springfield VA 1983-1985 graduated and went to Senior Staff. That was age 18. Yes I was 29 and in need of help when I came to KIDS in 1997. However, after having been successfully through Straight and sober for many years, I couldn't get clean in a 7 day or 30 day "hotel" program at a local hospital.
After being in KIDS a couple of months I realized Millers PLAN for THE REST OF MY LIFE, which did NOT include returning to Virginia and my 2 yr old son, I knew I could not stay. I was forcibly restrained when I would even try to talk about my child and my feelings toward him. My withdrawl slips were torn up and I was kept in homes with staff because they did not want me using knowledge I had to affect phasers.
Average program stays were 4-6 years!! MY GOD!!
Besides my issues, KIDS compared to Straight was much more verbally humiliating and vicious. I also did not get a sense of any type of closeness between phasers. There was a "sense of survival", a fear among everyone. That was not the case with my experience at Straight. I am still in touch with MANY people I was close with in Straight and I am coming up on 20 years since I entered.! I am NOT advocating Straight, because I believe a lot of people had bad experiences. Who is to determine anyones personal pain threshold?
HOWEVER, I do consider myself abused as an adult and denied my rights while I was at KIDS of North Jersey. When I think of Miller, I still see a maniacal glee in his eyes,he was such a powerful and terrifying prescence even to me as an adult.
On another note, I just happened to see on the ISAC website a link where "Father Cassian" has been listed as a priest than has been convicted of abuse. I am glad he is listed somewhere other than the Straight and KIDS websites. http://www.pokrov.org/Lawsuits/lawsuits.htm (http://www.pokrov.org/Lawsuits/lawsuits.htm)
Wendy Bright
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you have to admit most of these "regulars around here" are pretty lost. that my friends has got to be one of the funniest things Ive seen,sad but true! thanks anon.
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On 2003-09-10 09:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
" John, your ignorant. Your views are liberal and shallow, you have nothing to offer except how NOT to think. Your stint at kids was brief, you have no imperical opinion. You have nothing I want in life.Stop acting like an expert, you and many others are just a flash in the pan. So please keep your fucking mouth shut."
It appears to me that all the time you spent in Kids (since it seems to be a VERY LONG time) has had an impact. You may think you are sane and that you should understand more than anyone what went on... but it looks like you are still brain washed into being a nasty, condescending, "let's convert the rebellious person" type person that most of us were at one point. But, you still are. Nice progress! So, ya know what... You shut your fucking mouth!
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On 2003-09-10 09:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
" John, your ignorant. Your views are liberal and shallow, you have nothing to offer except how NOT to think. Your stint at kids was brief, you have no imperical opinion. You have nothing I want in life.Stop acting like an expert, you and many others are just a flash in the pan. So please keep your fucking mouth shut."
"I forgot to mention in my last post John, I was there before Lulu, cindy and george. And was there long after they left. Funny, I don`t remember seeing you there during the elvolution. Still very bemused and curious as to how you`ve become so confident in your meer conjectures about the kids program. How could you have ascertained all this knowledge without the practical experience I wonder. Hear say maybe.You are inept and inexperienced and must have some really low self esteem to spend so much energy and time trying to look important to your captive audience by asseverating superfluous points. You fool no one. I abhor your expatiating. remember "those who know the least, tend to speak the most.""
Hmmmm. "How not to think." Isn't that what Newton was trying to teach us?
I don't give a rat's fat happy ass if you were intake number one. Frankly, longevity in Kids isn't a 'good point' in my book. I'm glad to be gone and very thankful that I got the opportunity to leave when I did.
It wasn't as if my requests as a legal adult to leave were being honored, at least not in NJ.
And I ascertain my knowledge from observing. It doesn't take a damned drocket scientist to figure out the cult-like programming that was crammed down our throats. Our family's throats. You'd have to be a moron to not see that Newton was trying to rehabilitate people who had no problems.
There was not a day in group, either in El Paso or in River Edge when I heard fellow "patients" (using that term VERY loosely!) try to play the game and try to progress, but they HAD NO PROBLEM.
Kevin, who posts here every so often HAD NO PROBLEM. There was another black kid there, Earl something. HE HAD NO PROBLEM.
Chad in El Paso. HE HAD NO PROBLEM. These were people I shared host homes with.
Now, I can't say that about Rebecca or Lulu, due to the segregation of group. I couldn't actually converse with either of them to get to know them.
These are people I *could* converse with, at least as much as you can on 1st phase. There was no real reason they should have been in Kids. PERIOD.
Now, two juries have agreed that Newton & Co. were trying to treat people who HAD NO PROBLEMS.
So, based on my own observations (concluding in my personal opinions, which I acknowledge as my own), legal precedent, as well as the accounts of others (documented as such, where appropriate), I speak.
No, I never saw an oldcomers rap, a staff meeting or ran home. I wasn't there for the evolution of Kids. Are you going to claim that at one time Kids was BETTER? That it was somehow GOOD and actually had a positive impact on someone's life?
I'm sure there are people who benefitted as a result by getting clean or getting some counselling for other issues plaguing them. Perhaps such help couldn't have been gotten without it. We'll never know, as that's pure speculation. And sure there are 'success stories'. The program took with some people. I'd consider that everyone who's sober today by choice post-Kids is a success. Kudos to y'all, really.
But that's not me. I'm not the addict that I was told I was. I'm not the compulsive overeater I was made to believe I was. I don't feel I need to recover from anything. No substance or activity is making my life unmanageable. I'm not experiencing any powerlessness.
A handful of good deeds doesn't compensate for the incredible pain that Newton and his brainwashing rehab brought to not only the kids on the blue chairs, but the parents & families who went through just as much bullshit, guilt, threats, etc.
So if that makes me liberal & shallow (which I don't believe it does), then I'll accept that label. I won't agree, though and I'll say that.
So no, I won't, as you say "keep my fucking mouth shut".
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On 2003-09-10 10:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I forgot to mention in my last post John, I was there before Lulu, cindy and george. And was there long after they left."
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Joseph Goebbels
Yes, I think that describes that sort of stupidity. But I am still wondering why anyone would want to claim they were there before Lulu, Cindy and George. If you were there before George you are in a very small group, and that is nothing to be proud of.
And as ever, the hiding behind the Anonymous login continues. Coward.
Kathy
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Eric Smith - how are you. I was a fellow sibling long ago...a group of us hung out and supported each other. Sad to hear about your brother. I hope all is well with you and the rest of your family!
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You know, anon, using big words doesn't mean you are intelligent....only that you have spent some time looking up words to use in the dictionary. You may think you are a success story after leaving Kids, but you really do have a lot of the kids way of thinking still. If you would just take a minute and listen to yourself, you might hear just a little of Dr. N there. You may be "out", but you must have spent many years there. It shows! Try to stop belittling others. Did you ever stop to think that everyone is effected in different ways. That is not to say that your way is any better. Try some humility. It helps!
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The only thing the bothers me about this thread, is the showing of support and understanding towards the Kids Program in any way, shape or form. One of the posters here stated that we make our own choices. True, but those choices sometimes are based upon unpreventable influences in our lives. I HAD NO CHOICE WHEN I WAS FORCED, TRICKED and HELD CAPTIVE in KIDS. Just like a small child has no choice when being abused by a parent. Just like a prisoner has no choice but to stay behind bars when locked in a jail cell. Just like a fish has no choice but to be underwater - WE HAD NO CHOICE. It took me several years to realize I did have choices after kids. While there, the power they had to strip us of our own opinions and perspectives of the world was immense. Anyone who finds kids having been helpful in any way is missing one vital point - We weren't there because Newton and Co. wanted to help us. NOT IN THE LEAST. We were there to feed his wallet and his megalomanic ego with a real sense of power. In my opinion, Miller Newton is a disturbed man with a wife, also in my opinion, who was equalily as sick. Kids was a senseless act of cruelty to thousands of children and families. But they can't do that anymore. Lulu and Rebecca have brought justice. I wish you all freedom of thought. I wish you all pure happiness, and the freedom to make mistakes.
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Wow Anon - you sound like you have some issues you need to resolve! Is this the proper arena to bash someone & what they have?
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Nice vocabulary - still doing a word a day? :eek:
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What is wrong with you people?
Why are you so mean to each other?
Very Sad!
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I feel so hurt for Eric. After he shared that about his brother, everyone seems to care more about fighting about whether it is "right" for a person that was kids to share the feelings they do. I am speaking for myself. I can understand the death thing because I lost family members while being held in Kids. I can also understand what Eric's brother probably felt. I have to watch people everyday with their degrees and there new families. Their babies and weddings and graduations. Not to mention all the high school kids going to the prom. Some of you may say, oh you wouldn't have done that before you were in kids anyway. Wrong. I was able to do some of that. But being a kid just starting out in high school and not getting your first car or graduating, or even having the education to make it in college. For me it hurt my life a great deal. It is harder for me now than even before I went into kids. I pray that people never have to live in an atomosphere or program like kids. It robbed so much from me. :scared:
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still using that word, eh? It is a good one. I see you made it to the online world.
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What are you talking about. I am not the same person writing as the other one before me. You must have me mixed up with someone else. Whoever u are. :???: