Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 10, 2006, 07:21:00 PM
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On this forum you will find a number of people who claim to be parents, all of whom remain anonymous, and all of whom pretend to hate the idea of TBS yet inevitably end up toeing the party line and unequivocally supporting each other in arguments. A cursory glance through the longer threads will reveal this.
They aren't independent in the least. Most likely they are program employees or connected in some way. Many of them are the same person. Some of them are committed to stalking and insults. The fact that they do this speaks volumes about their integrity and their commitment to honesty.
Yes, these are the people who want your children in their institution.
If you really want to discuss your son or daughter entering a program, I have to argue against doing it in the open due to the high volume of pure nonsense. Register a moniker and send private messages to Dysfunction Junction (and not his stalker, Dysfunktionjunktion) and Three Springs Waygookin. They have direct experience and aren't on any program's payroll.
(I am certain that this post will be followed by a number of insults and anonymi.)
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One thing Id ask you, TSW, is just what a program would do to someone to make them like this?
But regardless, for every pissed off teenager we have blabbering, S.T. has some idiot ADULT who tops it.
However, ultimately, the discreditation campaign is still irrelevant because what matters are the FACTS, and theyre still what they always were. Why not talk about the facts?
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He was only there a few weeks!!!!
Thank you TSW for being honest.
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I think you might mean me, Luke. I am real. I don't have a kid but I was looking for info.
Take it easy, Luke.
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Shut the fuck up. You're not real, despite your desperate attempts to claim that.
Guess what? I'm not real, either. Neither is Paul. There's more than enough hints. I'm an incarnation of raw hate. "Columbine potential".. yup, my author knows how to play me, all right. I'd have thrown my own parents into the mix if I didn't already kill them. Sending a kilowatt (plus or minus) down my mother's spine with nothing but my bare hands.. unmatchable in your world. I damn near came on the spot.
Yes, that's right, we're fictional and inhuman. Which means we fit right in around here.
If you tards think you have some sort of community here, or you don't expect vicious, random comments when posting to a board as trolled as this one, if you don't or if you're actually stupid enough to think you, any of you, are really worth a single iota of respect, I've got some bad fucking news for you.
We're leaving. The conversations have become mind-numbingly predictable, and less than a dozen human beings- but I'm not sure if that applies to those of you who openly defend child abuse- read this board regularly.
Adios, so long, catch us on the Internet in a couple years.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have some dead nuns to rape.
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I think everyone knows that I am for real. I have been on here for almost a year. I encourage parents to private message me with any questions they may have about programs.
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I'm real and might stick around. I find this whole thing fascinating.
"Don't go away mad, just go away."
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I give Paul or Luke or what not about a week before he is back. That is what trolls are all about you know.
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On 2006-05-10 21:11:00, brokenlegNO wrote:
"I'm real and might stick around. I find this whole thing fascinating.
"Don't go away mad, just go away.""
Isn't this you?
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:idea: Yanno, you just gave me an idea indirectly.
Why not make an uncle toms cabin for the teen help industry?
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Sadly, I'm real too. I just recently, as 8 months ago graduated "wilderness therapy". I like to think of myself as slightly intelligent, and would be happy to answer the questions of parents looking to send their children to WT.
No bias here, just the facts (ma'am =) )
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I have a couple on questions for you.
1) What program did you attend?
2) Did you go willingly?
3) And, if you didn't, were you escorted?
4) Did you get anything positive out of it?
5) If you didn't, did anyone in your group?
Thanks
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Sorry, that was me. I forgot to login.
One more question:
Do you like the outdoors? I see you are from Boston and I can't say many of my Boston friends are "outdoorsy."
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Laura Lee,
I just read a previous post of yours.
I know where you went.
I actually read your post a while back and when I called the specific Wilderness programs I asked specifically about the concerns you raised- concerning water, food and general safety. I also talked to two graduates of the program, one that loved it one that hated it. But, they both feel like it was worthwhile and non-abusive. The young woman I talked to hated the hiking but the young man loved it.
Thanks.
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The program I am most comfortable is Second Nature, GA. I mentioned that on another thread.
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On 2006-05-11 12:24:00, brokenlegNO wrote:
"Laura Lee,
I just read a previous post of yours.
I know where you went.
I actually read your post a while back and when I called the specific Wilderness programs I asked specifically about the concerns you raised- concerning water, food and general safety. I also talked to two graduates of the program, one that loved it one that hated it. But, they both feel like it was worthwhile and non-abusive. The young woman I talked to hated the hiking but the young man loved it.
Thanks. "
Define worthwhile, and non abusive.
Define any positive effects it has, and how it accomplishes them.
Define why its ends justify the means of nonconsentual treatment, that the medical mainstream frowns upon and the legal system would consider a crime anywhere but a program or a wilderness camp.
Use facts and reason here. Truthiness will be put in its proper place - with all the other bullshit.
Thanks.
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On 2006-05-11 11:40:00, LauraLee wrote:
"Sadly, I'm real too. I just recently, as 8 months ago graduated "wilderness therapy". I like to think of myself as slightly intelligent, and would be happy to answer the questions of parents looking to send their children to WT.
No bias here, just the facts (ma'am =) )"
Ok, which wilderness camp, and why?
Were you put there unwillingly? If you did go willingly could you leave when you wanted?
If you werent allowed to leave, and/or made to go, how would you justify that.
What did it do positively, if anything, and how?
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I don't think I posed those questions to you Nihilanthic.
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Niles- you wonder why you got kicked off ST. You come across as hostile and aggressive. Parents don't have to subject themselves to an inquisition by you. If you want to ask questions which might be answered, you better work on your bedside manner a little.
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On 2006-05-11 14:03:00, brokenlegNO wrote:
"I don't think I posed those questions to you Nihilanthic."
That's why he quotes LauraLee, dumbass. He's talking to her, not you.
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Oh, I'm so sorry my darling. Please forgive me and while you are at it, bite me.
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Laura Lee,
Please feel free to send me your thoughts via email or a personal message. I don't want you to get thrown into this briar patch.
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On 2006-05-11 14:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Niles- you wonder why you got kicked off ST. You come across as hostile and aggressive. Parents don't have to subject themselves to an inquisition by you. If you want to ask questions which might be answered, you better work on your bedside manner a little."
:cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2:
As Ive said before, Im not one to sugarcoat or whitewash.
Furthermore, hostile and aggressive questioning is part of these programs that these parents are so gung ho about subjecting thier children to.
Why oh why cant these grown ADULTS handle it? HMM?
Fuck off. :tup:
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Bleh, didn't mean to start any drama.
I have a couple on questions for you.
1) What program did you attend?
Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy Expeditions.
2) Did you go willingly?
Not at all.
3) And, if you didn't, were you escorted?
I was escorted. Pretty frightening, but they were nice people because I cooperated. I don't even want to think what it would be like if I didn't cooperate...
4) Did you get anything positive out of it?
Well... I guess I learned how to conquer my fears, but not in the most positive of ways (they forced me to do things I sure as hell was petrified of [like rock-climbing, I'm terrified of heights]). But other than that, no. I came home just the same way as I left. It took new therapy, new medication, and a new school/new friends to make me the "sane" (whatever that may be) girl I am today.
5) If you didn't, did anyone in your group?
I think they may have (especially this one girl who was addicted to cocaine), but I guess I can't judge that because I don't know whether she is still sober. I think everyone gets a little something out of it, but I don't think that you need an intense 7 week trip in the mountains of Oregon to get positive coping skills.
Hope this doesn't start any fights... I'm just trying to help ::eek3::
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On 2006-05-11 12:24:00, brokenlegNO wrote:
"Laura Lee,
I just read a previous post of yours.
I know where you went.
I actually read your post a while back and when I called the specific Wilderness programs I asked specifically about the concerns you raised- concerning water, food and general safety. I also talked to two graduates of the program, one that loved it one that hated it. But, they both feel like it was worthwhile and non-abusive. The young woman I talked to hated the hiking but the young man loved it.
Thanks. "
No staff member was physically abusive. They never called us names. I'd pinpoint the "abuse" as emotional. It's rough out there, you have to put everything out on the table about yourself, or else they threaten you with another three week trip. I know two people that had to do the first part of the trip again. I think the record was three consecutive three-week trips... I don't know how that solves anything.
I hated the hiking. I was a little overweight when I started, and I am in no way athletic. I don't think they took into account the different body types that we had. I'm also from Boston, which is sea level, and I had no time to adjust to the elevation of where we were (about 6,000-8,000 feet, depending on the area). I got a pretty bad nosebleed on the first week there. That wasn't that big of a deal, however. We also went out to the desert a couple of weeks, and both times we were in the desert I fainted. One of the times was from dehydration/not eating as much as I was supposed to. The other time was because I (stupidly) didn't eat anything that morning. However, I had an eating problem to begin with, and they did not realize that. It was mostly my fault, but I feel they should be more wary about the whole eating problem. All the people out there (girls especially) have severe self-esteem issues, and are most definetly more prone to eating problems than most.
When I fainted from dehydration, I also couldn't hold down any water, I kept vomiting it back up. I read somewhere that that is a sign of severe dehydration, and you should go to a hospital if that should ever occur. I was just put under the shade of a tree and waited out until I could hold down the water.
I don't know, take of it what you will...
Jeeze, I just wrote a lot...[ This Message was edited by: LauraLee on 2006-05-12 11:05 ]
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On 2006-05-11 12:16:00, brokenlegNO wrote:
"Sorry, that was me. I forgot to login.
One more question:
Do you like the outdoors? I see you are from Boston and I can't say many of my Boston friends are "outdoorsy.""
Haha, that's a stereotype. I like the outdoors (canoeing on the Charles is something I like to do), and I live in a suburb of Boston that is pretty secluded, it's about 10 miles south west of Boston.
Also, I love going to New Hampshire, and it's very woodsy there. (is woodsy even a word?)
However, I can't say I LOVE the outdoors. I do just fine in a city, I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.
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Thanks Laura, it is refreshing to actually speak to someone on Fornits without an agenda. Thanks for answering the questions I asked of you. I didn't mean to stereotype you either! I figure some people might hate the wilderness and from my childhood and adolescent experiences as a summer camper, it was the kids from the big metro areas that disliked roughing it the most.
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No problem, always happy to help! =)
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On 2006-05-11 20:13:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Furthermore, hostile and aggressive questioning is part of these programs that these parents are so gung ho about subjecting thier children to."
If you are so opposed to this type of manipulative dialog (as we all should be)... then try something more productive. You know old adages ... "like the pot calling the kettle black" "those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" ... yada yada.
If hostile and aggressive questioning isn't productive in the TBS setting, why do you think it will be productive in this setting?[ This Message was edited by: Truth Searcher on 2006-05-12 13:48 ]
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On 2006-05-11 20:13:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
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On 2006-05-11 14:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Niles- you wonder why you got kicked off ST. You come across as hostile and aggressive. Parents don't have to subject themselves to an inquisition by you. If you want to ask questions which might be answered, you better work on your bedside manner a little."
:cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2:
As Ive said before, Im not one to sugarcoat or whitewash.
Furthermore, hostile and aggressive questioning is part of these programs that these parents are so gung ho about subjecting thier children to.
Why oh why cant these grown ADULTS handle it? HMM?
Fuck off. :tup: "
You know Niles has a good point. These programs are very in your face, and are extremely aggresive. So, there are a few swear words that we throw around here???? Big fucking deal.
We here at fornits don't let parents get away with anything, and you're right we will call you on it.
It's not much different then what your kids were/are going through? So, do me/us a favor and stop acting so high, and mighty. If you can't handle an occasional fuck, shit, asshole, bitch once in a while...........lock your doors, close the shades, and throw your computer and TV out.
Also confrontations happen all the time in life......maybe you should grow a thicker skin......then come back?
[ This Message was edited by: CCM girl 1989 on 2006-05-12 14:41 ]
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I'll pass over pointing out psychological abuse for the nth time (Because most people either dont get it, or think its part of 'treating' a bad kid, or emotional growth) and focus on a more cut-and-dry thing.
When I fainted from dehydration, I also couldn't hold down any water, I kept vomiting it back up. I read somewhere that that is a sign of severe dehydration, and you should go to a hospital if that should ever occur. I was just put under the shade of a tree and waited out until I could hold down the water.
Is that not criminal negligence and abuse? A very dear friend of mine whose been a medical professional for years said thats a sign of multi-organ failure.
:roll: Yep. "fixes" your kids by beating them down emotionally and physically until they just give up and do what you want. GREAT therapy.
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You didnt sound nearly stupid enough. You sounded like an intelligent person being condescending and patronizing, not a true truthy idiot!
"A" for effort at least.
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I know. Its also really hard to get a perfect score in JFK: Reloaded.
I think Oswald was just showing off :roll:
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No, its more like first he missed, then he got Kennedy in the chest, which then hit Connally and ricocheted and hit him in the hand, etc (but he didnt let go of that stetson!), then he got jfk right in the brain.
Part of the point of the simulation's creation was to prove you could do it that way, but if anything you often end up doing it 'better' or accidentally winging someone after the bullet exits the prez.
Im just saying doing it EXACTLY as it happened is possible but rather difficult.
What I end up doing is either capping him in the head the first time, or winging the driver, and the driver tends to crash the car (sometimes spectacularly) or just passing out and stopping the car, which means the getaway is totally botched and you can just pick them off...
Also, its MUCH EASIER to get him on the approach to the book repository than after he makes a sharp left turn and drives away for a lot of reasons.
If anything it brings up a ton of questions, and a lot of lessons.
Not the least of which is videogames can now accurately model historical events. Hell theres a history channel show where they use a strategy game to model some old battles, and in LOTR they used a method very similar to that to do their epic battle scenes.
Also I totally jacked this thread. :roll:
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For God's sake, it's Friday night. Please go get laid.
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What, you want videos or explicit pictures or something?
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I hated the hiking. I was a little overweight when I started, and I am in no way athletic. I don't think they took into account the different body types that we had. I'm also from Boston, which is sea level, and I had no time to adjust to the elevation of where we were (about 6,000-8,000 feet, depending on the area). I got a pretty bad nosebleed on the first week there. That wasn't that big of a deal, however. We also went out to the desert a couple of weeks, and both times we were in the desert I fainted. One of the times was from dehydration/not eating as much as I was supposed to. The other time was because I (stupidly) didn't eat anything that morning. However, I had an eating problem to begin with, and they did not realize that. It was mostly my fault, but I feel they should be more wary about the whole eating problem. All the people out there (girls especially) have severe self-esteem issues, and are most definetly more prone to eating problems than most.
When I fainted from dehydration, I also couldn't hold down any water, I kept vomiting it back up. I read somewhere that that is a sign of severe dehydration, and you should go to a hospital if that should ever occur. I was just put under the shade of a tree and waited out until I could hold down the water.
I don't know, take of it what you will...
This is easy:
- The program was 'one size fits all' and did not take individual needs, either physical or emotional, into account.
- The program was not aware of and did not diagnosis your problems.
- The program failed to provide you with needed medical care. They are guilty of neglect.
A no brainer. Don't send any kids to this program.
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On 2006-05-11 20:13:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"
On 2006-05-11 14:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Niles- you wonder why you got kicked off ST. You come across as hostile and aggressive. Parents don't have to subject themselves to an inquisition by you. If you want to ask questions which might be answered, you better work on your bedside manner a little."
:cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2:
As Ive said before, Im not one to sugarcoat or whitewash.
Furthermore, hostile and aggressive questioning is part of these programs that these parents are so gung ho about subjecting thier children to.
Why oh why cant these grown ADULTS handle it? HMM?
Fuck off. :tup: "
None of us are sugar coating !
I have seen this said by you, Niles, many,many times here and have thought it myself from time to time. Niles, I think the message that everyone is trying to tell you is that it is fine that you don?t sugarcoat things or whitewash. The problem is with the way you try to communicate your position. Just to simplify: When we were all young and wanted to communicate to someone how something hurt we may pull their hair or kick them and say this is how it felt, which is heavily demonstrated with very little articulation because they lack the vocabulary and are immature. As a person matures and grows thru social life experiences and education their communication skills move from demonstrating to more articulating. Many kids strengthen their skills further thru joining the debate club at school, and most mature naturally by early adulthood
We are not saying the way you communicate is wrong , we are just hoping that a more mature response will emerge soon where you can defend your position more thru articulation than demonstration. After you get thru this phase you will look back on your posts and say Argh, did I say that!!! In the mean time most of us don?t mind, Niles, (although it can be irritating at times)its a reminder of our own teen and preteen years
[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-05-13 17:07 ]
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The hell are you talking about maturity for, Cap'n Sockpuppet?
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I think hes trying to patronize me.
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ASSHOLE EXPLAINS IT ALL!
::bump::
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In the mean time most of us don?t mind, Niles, (although it can be irritating at times)its a reminder of our own teen and preteen years
You are irritating all the time and remind a lot of us of our teenage yeras too with crazy parents who decided to ship us off for no reason. I bet you spend more time on this forum defending your decision than you ever did with yoru daughter.
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Back. On. Top.
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To the aging hippie: who are you talking about when you say "we"? Have a mouse in your pocket or is this just a technique to make people think "we", i.e., an ocean of people, have a problem?
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On 2006-05-13 16:24:00, TheWho wrote:
Just to simplify: When we were all young and wanted to communicate to someone how something hurt we may pull their hair or kick them and say this is how it felt, which is heavily demonstrated with very little articulation because they lack the vocabulary and are immature.
I understand the point you're making but it still fails to address the fact that kids are[/b] treated like that in those places. I don't think Niles is trying to demonstrate anything, I think he speaks what and how he feels. You don't find that appropriate, OK. My question to you is why would that type of behavior be appropriate for kids? This is precisely the sort of interaction that takes place in the seminars. It's an integral and mandatory part of bringing about this miraculous change (read brainwash).
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Youll find the secret of the universe explained to you before thewho can give a straight answer.
He is the MASTER of deflection.
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On 2006-05-28 11:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-05-13 16:24:00, TheWho wrote:
Just to simplify: When we were all young and wanted to communicate to someone how something hurt we may pull their hair or kick them and say this is how it felt, which is heavily demonstrated with very little articulation because they lack the vocabulary and are immature.
I understand the point you're making but it still fails to address the fact that kids are[/b] treated like that in those places. I don't think Niles is trying to demonstrate anything, I think he speaks what and how he feels. You don't find that appropriate, OK. My question to you is why would that type of behavior be appropriate for kids? This is precisely the sort of interaction that takes place in the seminars. It's an integral and mandatory part of bringing about this miraculous change (read brainwash)."
I understand the point you're making but it still fails to address the fact that kids are treated like that in those places.
If that is the case it needs to stop
I don't think Niles is trying to demonstrate anything, I think he speaks what and how he feels.
I agree with you, if he feels angry he yells and screams and uses profanity, which is very demonstrative and is not very effective in the adult world. If he is speaking to his friends on a street corner it may be appropriate and effective, but to most parents he is not making an effect and maybe he doesn?t want to, who knows. Maybe he just feels good afterwards
You don't find that appropriate, OK.
I don?t have a problem with it, just pointing out why he may have gotten kicked off ST. They seem to lean more towards articulate vs Demonstrative communication.
My question to you is why would that type of behavior be appropriate for kids?
I don?t think it is, but I realize it is part of the natural maturation process and growth in learning how to communicate and get your point across. Kids grow out of it, some sooner than others.
This is precisely the sort of interaction that takes place in the seminars. It's an integral and mandatory part of bringing about this miraculous change (read brainwash).
Not sure I am in alignment with you on that. Change can be effected in many ways, although demonstrating is typically key, it does not have to be via bullying, screaming and profanity.
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On 2006-05-30 20:15:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Youll find the secret of the universe explained to you before thewho can give a straight answer.
He is the MASTER of deflection."
The two prime movers in the Universe are Time and Luck.
--Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-06-05 11:06 ]
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HyperBump
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Back on top it goes!
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On 2006-05-12 10:36:00, LauraLee wrote:
"Bleh, didn't mean to start any drama.
I have a couple on questions for you.
1) What program did you attend?
Catherine Freer Wilderness Therapy Expeditions.
2) Did you go willingly?
Not at all.
3) And, if you didn't, were you escorted?
I was escorted. Pretty frightening, but they were nice people because I cooperated. I don't even want to think what it would be like if I didn't cooperate...
4) Did you get anything positive out of it?
Well... I guess I learned how to conquer my fears, but not in the most positive of ways (they forced me to do things I sure as hell was petrified of [like rock-climbing, I'm terrified of heights]). But other than that, no. I came home just the same way as I left. It took new therapy, new medication, and a new school/new friends to make me the "sane" (whatever that may be) girl I am today.
5) If you didn't, did anyone in your group?
I think they may have (especially this one girl who was addicted to cocaine), but I guess I can't judge that because I don't know whether she is still sober. I think everyone gets a little something out of it, but I don't think that you need an intense 7 week trip in the mountains of Oregon to get positive coping skills.
Hope this doesn't start any fights... I'm just trying to help ::eek3::"
Isnt forcing a kid with a terror of heights dangerous to all the kids as well as the instructor? What if the kid freaks out and has a meltdown of some sort.
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Oh, there were many meltdowns with kids last summer. The trip leaders just sat around and told them to get over it and to stop being dramatic, and that they were going to show no sympathy towards them.
That's super therapeutic!
(^ sarcasm)[ This Message was edited by: LauraLee on 2006-06-12 09:09 ]
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That sucks; but enough debate! Time for some cocktails...
Here's how you do it:
- Get a coke bottle & fill it with gasoline about half full
- Cram a piece of cloth into the neck of it nice and tight
- Get a chlorine tablet and stuff it in there. You are going to have to force it because the tablets are bigger than the opening of the bottle.
- Now find a suitable victim and wing it in their direction. When it hits the pavement or any surface hard enough to break it, and the chlorine and gasoline mix..... BOOM!!!!!!
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I prefer the lit rag method myself.
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Me too; I looked for that one but could only find the other.
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Nah. "Gasoline, Tide, and a bit o' the white wool--the only way to kiss an Englishman good mornin'"
I feel comfortable quoting the recipe because it won't work anymore--Tide's formulation has changed.
I think the discussion was satirical, but I also think there's a danger some dumbass might go out and try it.
The tablet of chlorine method is dangerous.
There are safer methods of doing improvised munitions, but I'm too afraid someone would try them to post them on the internet.
Do not use the Anarchist's Cookbook recipes. They're "wrong" in the sense of being more likely to hurt you than any target.
The old adage of explosives experts: You fuck up, you blow up.
Direct Action of the violent type, by amateurs, is always a lousy idea. You'll make all the people who oppose these private prisons look like wild-eyed radicals, and more than likely get innocent people killed. Regardless, if you do go for violence against people or property you really will end up deadorinjail
Now, if you could convince a few guys from one of the SEAL Teams to do an independent operation, that would be different. :wink: :wink: :wink:
(No way in hell, but the thought is amusing.)
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Watch the video---
http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/sto ... 525&page=1 (http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=2058525&page=1)
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Okay, I guess them sending their daughter away worked for them. So good, they are making hundreds of thousands of dollars off their book! Congrats!!!!
I am sorry but for most kids that go through this, they do not live happily ever after. Most of us have huge abandoment issues....that we never get over.
Problems that remain with us for the rest of our lives.
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Fucking bump.
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LOL - the publicity for WWASPS will trigger a landslide of hits on the Anti-WWASPS websites, I love it!!!!
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Oh, and let's not forget Maia's book - pretty hard to miss when you google troubled teens or troubled teen industry not to mention most of the anti-troubled-teen websites have linked to her book.
What kind of parent sends their kid to another WWASPS program after the first one closes down amid allegations of abuse?
The mother called it "odd" that the school shut down.
ODD?
:silly:
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What kind of parent sends their kid to another WWASPS program after the first one closes down amid allegations of abuse?
A horrible parent.
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On 2006-07-01 21:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
The mother called it "odd" that the school shut down.
ODD?
:silly:
"
HAH. I just laughed out loud... I kinda startled myself.