Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Hyde Schools => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 04, 2006, 02:15:00 PM
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Will some kind soul please explain the Joe Gauld-Ed Legg war?
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On 2006-05-04 11:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Will some kind soul please explain the Joe Gauld-Ed Legg war?"
Well there is the war and there is the lead up. You have to understand the step up first. This is a subject of which I have firsthand knowledge. I must run tho. My beans are burning in the kitchen
Su3
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This is a complex issue. Too much to write about in one sitting.
Anyone who knows Joe will admit he is not really cut out to run a school on a day-to-day basis over a long period of time. He seems to need crises to motivate him periodically, to shake things up and get his attention, or perhaps to focus the attention of the community on him. Often, in the old days, he would cancel classes and pull the whole school into the mansion area to sit on the steps in the main hall, so he could lead a school meeting about some kind of crisis. After starting the school in the late 60's, Joe ran the school for maybe 5 years or so before turning the headmaster position over to Ed Legg. Ed was educated as an undergrad at Harvard and as an attorney at the U of TX. He and his wife Ann, a Wellesley grad, both taught at Hyde.
Joe's new role after Ed became head was supposed to be "National Commitment." This included writing a book, which was organized around stories of teachers, students, and families, as
edited by Joe. His editor at Bantam was Toni Burbank. Joe called "book meetings" of a select group from the community. These were held in his office on the second floor of the mansion. Ed's office was across the hall. The two were separated by a space for secretaries. There was much back and forth between the two. This interaction became increasingly agitated over time. This was in the mid-to-late 1970's. Joe crafted himself as the "spritual leader" of Hyde, while Ed ran operations and lead the school on a more practical level.
Joe also spent a great deal of time playing golf during this time. He also performed in America's Spirit (begun in 1976 for the becentennial) on tour, sometimes traveling with an entire suitcase full of hard candy, which he liked to suck on. Joe participated in the Job Corps tour of America's Spirit, during which he dramatically called at least one Job Corps center director on the carpet for his attitude. The Job Corps tour was lead by Ed, who also had a flare for the dramatic and who was know to become angry in public, although not to the extent or with the loss of control of Joe. One can see how issues of power and influence might have arisen between Ed and Joe during this period.
To be continued...
I welcome others to chime in if you think I have gotten this wrong or skewed it too much one way or the other.
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It would be important to note what national commitment was. would you care to describe it?
Sue
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"National Commitment" was Joe Gauld's idea that he was somehow going to evangelize every school in the country to remake itself in Hyde's image. In addition to the book there was an appearance on the Today Show, another on Phil Donohue, and an article in Time Magazine. Joe, at the time, also had a weekly column in the Portland, ME newspaper. The national media coverage was in 1976 and sort of dried up after that. Also, America's Spirit was supposed to be a part of all of that.
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
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Thanks for the National Commitment explanation. David Susskind was during that period. Maybe Phil Donohue as well.
America's Spirit shows always had Hyde admissions materials on display. And, yes, it was supposed to be a vehicle for National Commitment, using the style of "Up With People." There were media interviews and local tv appearances along the way.
The Job Corps tour was also supposed to introduce the Hyde message. This was when there was funding under Jimmy Carter for this type of thing. Ruth Warwick, an actress known for her role in an early Orson Wells film (name escapes me, but it was the one with the sled named Rosebud) and later on All My Children, appeared at some of the America's Spirit performances on the Jobs Corps tour in the late 70's. Dick Mohatt, who was the government rep on the tour, left his job and came with his family to teach at Hyde.
There was much internal turmoil at Hyde in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Joe left the school during this period. I do not know whether he was asked to leave or whether he left voluntarily. I do know that there was a large meeting with all of the faculty and the trustees during which at least some of the faculty suggested that Joe leave. Over the course of the next few years, almost the entire faculty that existed at Hyde during those tumultous years left the school. This included Malcolm, Laura, Laurie and Paul, members of the Gauld clan who had been teaching at Hyde. Eventually Ed and Ann Legg left as well.
When Joe came back into power in later years, he was accompanied by Laurie, Paul, Malcolm, Laura, and eventually Gigi. Ken and Claire Grant gravitated back to Hyde as well. They are related to the Gauld clan indirectly, as Claire and Laura Gauld are sisters.
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On 2006-05-26 13:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thanks for the National Commitment explanation. David Susskind was during that period. Maybe Phil Donohue as well.
America's Spirit shows always had Hyde admissions materials on display. And, yes, it was supposed to be a vehicle for National Commitment, using the style of "Up With People." There were media interviews and local tv appearances along the way.
The Job Corps tour was also supposed to introduce the Hyde message. This was when there was funding under Jimmy Carter for this type of thing. Ruth Warwick, an actress known for her role in an early Orson Wells film (name escapes me, but it was the one with the sled named Rosebud) and later on All My Children, appeared at some of the America's Spirit performances on the Jobs Corps tour in the late 70's. Dick Mohatt, who was the government rep on the tour, left his job and came with his family to teach at Hyde.
There was much internal turmoil at Hyde in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Joe left the school during this period. I do not know whether he was asked to leave or whether he left voluntarily. I do know that there was a large meeting with all of the faculty and the trustees during which at least some of the faculty suggested that Joe leave. Over the course of the next few years, almost the entire faculty that existed at Hyde during those tumultous years left the school. This included Malcolm, Laura, Laurie and Paul, members of the Gauld clan who had been teaching at Hyde. Eventually Ed and Ann Legg left as well.
When Joe came back into power in later years, he was accompanied by Laurie, Paul, Malcolm, Laura, and eventually Gigi. Ken and Claire Grant gravitated back to Hyde as well. They are related to the Gauld clan indirectly, as Claire and Laura Gauld are sisters."
Joe Gauld seems to have a chronic tendency to alienate people. Based on my observations of him, his arrogance and cockiness end up overshadowing what comes across as fake humility. I imagine he has spent decades alternating between being seductive with his character education speech (including the golf swing metaphors) and his abusive behavior. I am not at all surprised to hear that there were major falling-outs and internal chaos at Hyde. The place is a nasty cauldron that seems to be filled with pathology, complicated personalities, needy staff, and role models who sanction emotionally abusive behavior. Hyde staff who are decent and caring don't seem to last long or stay because they aren't able to function outside the Hyde environment. It amazes me that the Gauld crew was able to reinfiltrate the place. It also amazes me that the place hasn't imploded from its internal craziness.
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On 2006-05-26 13:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thanks for the National Commitment explanation. David Susskind was during that period. Maybe Phil Donohue as well.
America's Spirit shows always had Hyde admissions materials on display. And, yes, it was supposed to be a vehicle for National Commitment, using the style of "Up With People." There were media interviews and local tv appearances along the way.
The Job Corps tour was also supposed to introduce the Hyde message. This was when there was funding under Jimmy Carter for this type of thing. Ruth Warwick, an actress known for her role in an early Orson Wells film (name escapes me, but it was the one with the sled named Rosebud) and later on All My Children, appeared at some of the America's Spirit performances on the Jobs Corps tour in the late 70's. Dick Mohatt, who was the government rep on the tour, left his job and came with his family to teach at Hyde.
There was much internal turmoil at Hyde in the late 1970's and early 1980's. Joe left the school during this period. I do not know whether he was asked to leave or whether he left voluntarily. I do know that there was a large meeting with all of the faculty and the trustees during which at least some of the faculty suggested that Joe leave. Over the course of the next few years, almost the entire faculty that existed at Hyde during those tumultous years left the school. This included Malcolm, Laura, Laurie and Paul, members of the Gauld clan who had been teaching at Hyde. Eventually Ed and Ann Legg left as well.
When Joe came back into power in later years, he was accompanied by Laurie, Paul, Malcolm, Laura, and eventually Gigi. Ken and Claire Grant gravitated back to Hyde as well. They are related to the Gauld clan indirectly, as Claire and Laura Gauld are sisters."
The movie was Citizen Kane a thinly disguised bio of William Randolf Hearst, one of the most powerful men in america.
IT was my understanding that Joe and Ed were asked to leave simultanitously. Joe and Ed were fighting for control of the school. The issue was brought to the Board of Governor. The BoG asked both of them to leave. I heard there was a move to offer the Headmaster job to Larry Pray but that never came to fruition. Hyde did a search and hired a guy named Williams. The school declined under his leadership to the point of insolvence. The parent of a Hyde graduate, a fellow by the name of Lennox made the BoG an offer: I will bail you out under two conditions: the whole Bog resigns and you bring back Joe.
I would like to point out that I was not present for any of this. I would really like to hear this from folks who were there, a first hand account. I am really curious how the whole thing between Joe and Ed went down and how the faculty split. Like was henry a Joe man or an Ed man. How did they make there cases to the community as to the merits of who should run the school. That kind of detail. I have tried to talk to people about this one on one but it is really uncofortable for the people that were there, like kids in a divorce .
Sue
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I would like to point out that when Joe came back in 86? the whole teaching staff was purged. The only people there now that were staff from the seventies are:
Joe Guald
Paul Hurd
Paul is maried to a Gauld
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On 2006-05-27 08:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
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I would like to point out that when Joe came back in 86? the whole teaching staff was purged. The only people there now that were staff from the seventies are:
Joe Guald
Paul Hurd
Paul is maried to a Gauld
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What about Don McMillan? Isn't he a relation also? It gets so confusing because everyone at Hyde seem to be married to each other or related in some way. I believe it was McMillan who had the bad temper and has had a couple of physical altercations with kids. I also remember Ken Grant getting physical with one of the students.
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Sue,
You are incorrect. Joe and Ed did not leave at the same time.
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Laurie Gauld Hurd, Malcolm Gauld, and Ken Grant were also on staff in the late 1970's.
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So who left first and how did it happen?
Sue Doenym
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Joe left first.
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Joe left first.
I'm a former student from the early 1970s. I obviously wasn't there at the time, but from what I heard from students who were, Ed engineered Joe's departure in a sort of coup d'état. This quickly backfired and the whole place imploded with a professional headmaster brought in and the Hyde philosophy jettisoned.
My personal view was always that Joe was absolutely crackers with an enormous ego, but sincere. Ed Legg was highly intelligent, but power hungry, arrogant and insincere.
Subsequently, I worked in Hong Kong in early 1985 with a recent college graduate from Bowdoin, small world, who's mother was brought in by the Board in the early 1980s to help evaluate Hyde School. Her surname was Ring and I believe she was a professor of education at Bowdoin. In any event, as I recall from several conversations with her daughter this individual spent a great deal of time interviewing Joe and Ed. She and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description.
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Joe left first.
I'm a former student from the early 1970s. I obviously wasn't there at the time, but from what I heard from students who were, Ed engineered Joe's departure in a sort of coup d'état. This quickly backfired and the whole place imploded with a professional headmaster brought in and the Hyde philosophy jettisoned.
My personal view was always that Joe was absolutely crackers with an enormous ego, but sincere. Ed Legg was highly intelligent, but power hungry, arrogant and insincere.
Subsequently, I worked in Hong Kong in early 1985 with a recent college graduate from Bowdoin, small world, who's mother was brought in by the Board in the early 1980s to help evaluate Hyde School. Her surname was Ring and I believe she was a professor of education at Bowdoin. In any event, as I recall from several conversations with her daughter this individual spent a great deal of time interviewing Joe and Ed. She and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description.
I'm not at all surprised to read your analysis. It sounds quite accurate and, sadly, your take on Hyde seems just as applicable today as it was years ago. Joe Gauld's destructive influence and egocentric tendencies may be even more intense with the passage of time.
Just last week I heard about another lawsuit filed against Hyde by parents. I don't know all the details, but it sounds like the parents pulled their kid out of Hyde because of what they concluded was a horribly abusive environment (emotional abuse in the form of some out-of-control staff who were demeaning, insulting and very unprofessional). Perhaps details of this legal case will emerge.
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Joe left first.
I'm a former student from the early 1970s. I obviously wasn't there at the time, but from what I heard from students who were, Ed engineered Joe's departure in a sort of coup d'état. This quickly backfired and the whole place imploded with a professional headmaster brought in and the Hyde philosophy jettisoned.
My personal view was always that Joe was absolutely crackers with an enormous ego, but sincere. Ed Legg was highly intelligent, but power hungry, arrogant and insincere.
Subsequently, I worked in Hong Kong in early 1985 with a recent college graduate from Bowdoin, small world, who's mother was brought in by the Board in the early 1980s to help evaluate Hyde School. Her surname was Ring and I believe she was a professor of education at Bowdoin. In any event, as I recall from several conversations with her daughter this individual spent a great deal of time interviewing Joe and Ed. She and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description.
I would have to agree with that accessment. Joe and Ed were like reverse image harliquins of each other. I personally like Joe, but I knew how to tip toe around him. Some of the people that did not got slammed pretty hard and hate him.. I can not blame them for that. Ed was/(is) an asshole in my book. I had a very bad experiance with his duplicity. He was a user par excelance.
Please flame me for my spelling. It is 7:00am CST( c as in china) and i just ran 6 miles. too lazy to spell check.
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Very credible accessment...
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Joe left first.
I'm a former student from the early 1970s. I obviously wasn't there at the time, but from what I heard from students who were, Ed engineered Joe's departure in a sort of coup d'état. This quickly backfired and the whole place imploded with a professional headmaster brought in and the Hyde philosophy jettisoned.
My personal view was always that Joe was absolutely crackers with an enormous ego, but sincere. Ed Legg was highly intelligent, but power hungry, arrogant and insincere.
Subsequently, I worked in Hong Kong in early 1985 with a recent college graduate from Bowdoin, small world, who's mother was brought in by the Board in the early 1980s to help evaluate Hyde School. Her surname was Ring and I believe she was a professor of education at Bowdoin. In any event, as I recall from several conversations with her daughter this individual spent a great deal of time interviewing Joe and Ed. She and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description.
I would have to agree with that accessment. Joe and Ed were like reverse image harliquins of each other. I personally like Joe, but I knew how to tip toe around him. Some of the people that did not got slammed pretty hard and hate him.. I can not blame them for that. Ed was/(is) an asshole in my book. I had a very bad experiance with his duplicity. He was a user par excelance.
Please flame me for my spelling. It is 7:00am CST( c as in china) and i just ran 6 miles. too lazy to spell check.
Where are you in China? I'm currently in Hong Kong for the week. Staying at the Excelsior.
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Interesting reading.
http://www.educationnext.org/20051/22.html (http://www.educationnext.org/20051/22.html)
Earlier this year, at the Hyde School, a private high school in Bath, Maine, dedicated to ?family-based character education,? I witnessed a confrontation in an 11th-grade honors English class the likes of which, it is safe to say, few educators or scholars have ever seen. The teacher, Barbara Perry, asked if everyone had finished reading the assigned novel, Edwidge Danticat?s The Farming of Bones. All but two of the dozen or so students had. It was a Monday, and Perry asked Brad, one of the two, if he had done any of the reading at all over the weekend.
?No,? said Brad. ?It was a really rough weekend for me. I?ve had a lot of trouble with believing in myself, and I?ve been trying to figure out where it comes from. Mr. Gauld [Malcolm Gauld, president and CEO of the Hyde Schools] thought it came from my father, and I should talk to him. I brought it up, and he got really upset.?
One of the kids jumped on Brad. ?You say you don?t believe in yourself, but you don?t give yourself an opportunity to believe in yourself. It?s like how you didn?t go to lacrosse practice on Saturday. I don?t know how not doing your work, not going to lacrosse, is going to make you believe in yourself.?
A chorus of ?uh-huh?s rose around the room. Miss Perry said gently, ?Do you know what you?re doing??
?Do I know what I?m doing?? Brad repeated, in a heartbreakingly toneless, defeated voice. ?Hardly.?
And now the other students tried to direct Brad to the deeper causes of his malaise. He was, they said, holding something back. ?I?m really worried about you,? said one of the girls.
A boy turned to Brad and said, ?I was talking about you to my mom yesterday?how you have this reputation for being the kid who fluctuates the most. It?s up to you whether you?re going to be in charge or not.?
Brad listened silently. Finally, he said, ?So I guess I should leave now??
?It?s up to you,? Miss Perry said. Brad pushed his chair back, gathered up his books, and left. And only then did the class begin to discuss The Farming of Bones.
Both students and teachers assured me that this exercise in tough love was nothing out of the ordinary at Hyde; several kids said that they had been on the receiving end of it themselves, to their lasting benefit. Radical truth telling, accompanied by an ethos of mutual responsibility known as ?Brother?s Keeper,? lies at the core of Hyde?s vision of character development. And these principles are meant to guide the conduct of not just the students but all the adults in what is very consciously referred to as ?the Hyde community??teachers, administrators, parents. Everyone is obliged to hold everyone else to the standards they themselves would wish to be held to. The Hyde experience is, if nothing else, exhausting.
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And this has WHAT to do with the topic of the post?
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Gives a good insight as to how Hyde works, since you don't seem to interested in attempting an answer.
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If you read that article carefully and you have half a brain, then you can figure out that Hyde is a Cult.
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Interesting reading.
http://www.educationnext.org/20051/22.html (http://www.educationnext.org/20051/22.html)
Earlier this year, at the Hyde School, a private high school in Bath, Maine, dedicated to ?family-based character education,? I witnessed a confrontation in an 11th-grade honors English class the likes of which, it is safe to say, few educators or scholars have ever seen. The teacher, Barbara Perry, asked if everyone had finished reading the assigned novel, Edwidge Danticat?s The Farming of Bones. All but two of the dozen or so students had. It was a Monday, and Perry asked Brad, one of the two, if he had done any of the reading at all over the weekend.
?No,? said Brad. ?It was a really rough weekend for me. I?ve had a lot of trouble with believing in myself, and I?ve been trying to figure out where it comes from. Mr. Gauld [Malcolm Gauld, president and CEO of the Hyde Schools] thought it came from my father, and I should talk to him. I brought it up, and he got really upset.?
One of the kids jumped on Brad. ?You say you don?t believe in yourself, but you don?t give yourself an opportunity to believe in yourself. It?s like how you didn?t go to lacrosse practice on Saturday. I don?t know how not doing your work, not going to lacrosse, is going to make you believe in yourself.?
A chorus of ?uh-huh?s rose around the room. Miss Perry said gently, ?Do you know what you?re doing??
?Do I know what I?m doing?? Brad repeated, in a heartbreakingly toneless, defeated voice. ?Hardly.?
And now the other students tried to direct Brad to the deeper causes of his malaise. He was, they said, holding something back. ?I?m really worried about you,? said one of the girls.
A boy turned to Brad and said, ?I was talking about you to my mom yesterday?how you have this reputation for being the kid who fluctuates the most. It?s up to you whether you?re going to be in charge or not.?
Brad listened silently. Finally, he said, ?So I guess I should leave now??
?It?s up to you,? Miss Perry said. Brad pushed his chair back, gathered up his books, and left. And only then did the class begin to discuss The Farming of Bones.
Both students and teachers assured me that this exercise in tough love was nothing out of the ordinary at Hyde; several kids said that they had been on the receiving end of it themselves, to their lasting benefit. Radical truth telling, accompanied by an ethos of mutual responsibility known as ?Brother?s Keeper,? lies at the core of Hyde?s vision of character development. And these principles are meant to guide the conduct of not just the students but all the adults in what is very consciously referred to as ?the Hyde community??teachers, administrators, parents. Everyone is obliged to hold everyone else to the standards they themselves would wish to be held to. The Hyde experience is, if nothing else, exhausting.
Do you cite this as an endorsement of Hyde? Read the rest of the article. The author refers to Hyde's cult-ish qualities and clearly had major concerns about what happens at Hyde.
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Interesting reading.
http://www.educationnext.org/20051/22.html (http://www.educationnext.org/20051/22.html)
Earlier this year, at the Hyde School, a private high school in Bath, Maine, dedicated to ?family-based character education,? I witnessed a confrontation in an 11th-grade honors English class the likes of which, it is safe to say, few educators or scholars have ever seen. The teacher, Barbara Perry, asked if everyone had finished reading the assigned novel, Edwidge Danticat?s The Farming of Bones. All but two of the dozen or so students had. It was a Monday, and Perry asked Brad, one of the two, if he had done any of the reading at all over the weekend.
?No,? said Brad. ?It was a really rough weekend for me. I?ve had a lot of trouble with believing in myself, and I?ve been trying to figure out where it comes from. Mr. Gauld [Malcolm Gauld, president and CEO of the Hyde Schools] thought it came from my father, and I should talk to him. I brought it up, and he got really upset.?
One of the kids jumped on Brad. ?You say you don?t believe in yourself, but you don?t give yourself an opportunity to believe in yourself. It?s like how you didn?t go to lacrosse practice on Saturday. I don?t know how not doing your work, not going to lacrosse, is going to make you believe in yourself.?
A chorus of ?uh-huh?s rose around the room. Miss Perry said gently, ?Do you know what you?re doing??
?Do I know what I?m doing?? Brad repeated, in a heartbreakingly toneless, defeated voice. ?Hardly.?
And now the other students tried to direct Brad to the deeper causes of his malaise. He was, they said, holding something back. ?I?m really worried about you,? said one of the girls.
A boy turned to Brad and said, ?I was talking about you to my mom yesterday?how you have this reputation for being the kid who fluctuates the most. It?s up to you whether you?re going to be in charge or not.?
Brad listened silently. Finally, he said, ?So I guess I should leave now??
?It?s up to you,? Miss Perry said. Brad pushed his chair back, gathered up his books, and left. And only then did the class begin to discuss The Farming of Bones.
Both students and teachers assured me that this exercise in tough love was nothing out of the ordinary at Hyde; several kids said that they had been on the receiving end of it themselves, to their lasting benefit. Radical truth telling, accompanied by an ethos of mutual responsibility known as ?Brother?s Keeper,? lies at the core of Hyde?s vision of character development. And these principles are meant to guide the conduct of not just the students but all the adults in what is very consciously referred to as ?the Hyde community??teachers, administrators, parents. Everyone is obliged to hold everyone else to the standards they themselves would wish to be held to. The Hyde experience is, if nothing else, exhausting.
Much of what the Hyde PR machine touts sounds very good in theory. And, I'll concede that during my time at Hyde I met some genuinely committed, dedicated professionals. But there's no doubt in my mind that when you look at the big picture at Hyde you find so many examples of poorly qualified staff who mistreat students, staff who don't come close to living up to the Hyde ideals. There are so many problems at Hyde that the nice sounding literature and speeches are misleading. The good stories that come out of Hyde (I know there are some) are completely overshadowed by the tidal wave of bad stories.
Hyde reminds me a lot of what happened to Karl Marx's vision. On paper the model sounds quite good. But the implementation has been so flawed (see the former Soviet Union and China) that the system can't survive or live up to the ideals. Sounds like Hyde to me.
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That seems to be a common thread running through all of these places. The basic model for this came from Synanon (although I'm not sure that any direct link can be traced the whole model of treatment is a chapter right out of Chuck Dederich's grand plan. Cult all have the same basic characteristics. See if any of this is familiar...
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria)
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Joe left first.
I'm a former student from the early 1970s. I obviously wasn't there at the time, but from what I heard from students who were, Ed engineered Joe's departure in a sort of coup d'état. This quickly backfired and the whole place imploded with a professional headmaster brought in and the Hyde philosophy jettisoned.
My personal view was always that Joe was absolutely crackers with an enormous ego, but sincere. Ed Legg was highly intelligent, but power hungry, arrogant and insincere.
Subsequently, I worked in Hong Kong in early 1985 with a recent college graduate from Bowdoin, small world, who's mother was brought in by the Board in the early 1980s to help evaluate Hyde School. Her surname was Ring and I believe she was a professor of education at Bowdoin. In any event, as I recall from several conversations with her daughter this individual spent a great deal of time interviewing Joe and Ed. She and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description.
I would have to agree with that accessment. Joe and Ed were like reverse image harliquins of each other. I personally like Joe, but I knew how to tip toe around him. Some of the people that did not got slammed pretty hard and hate him.. I can not blame them for that. Ed was/(is) an asshole in my book. I had a very bad experiance with his duplicity. He was a user par excelance.
Please flame me for my spelling. It is 7:00am CST( c as in china) and i just ran 6 miles. too lazy to spell check.
Where are you in China? I'm currently in Hong Kong for the week. Staying at the Excelsior.
I was just in SIngapore for twelve days, before that twelve in Taiwan.
I am back in the states now. I miss asia already. I bought a coffee at O'hare. Jesus Christmas tree! Nasty attitude with your coffee. I liked the Mayla girl at the Starbucks in Suntek City. She remebered how I drank my coffee, called me "Sir" and smiled. At that and no tip jar. They are working 2x the hours that americans work for half the pay AND have a better attitude about it. SE asia is going to kick our lazy american asses. They are already. I was there moving a manufacturing set up from the US.
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thats right you figgured it out, hyde controles our minds because we all haveto wear button down shirts every day(just like every other boarding school) and we have to share all our feelings, that is a lie, i didn't and i spent 3 years there. so oh no you figured us out
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So button-down shirts are the real core issue of Hyde's problem, I guess.
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What about ties... are they part of the problem too?
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What about ties... are they part of the problem too?
Bow ties are a real problem. I have some nice J Garcia ties.
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What about ties... are they part of the problem too?
Bow ties are a real problem. I have some nice J Garcia ties.
So back to the original subject: history
When Joe left did staff leave with him? I know from my kool-aid drinking friend that were still hanging aroung the school at that point ( just kidding) that the staff had taken sides like kids in a family during a divorce.
Who stayed with Ed? And how did he manage to run the school into the ground or was that Williams that did that.
Signed
Neil Loughjizm
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I don't have the answer to your question, but I am not surprised people took sides. To me Joe Gauld always seemed like a Cult Leader. He would turn these weak parents and students into emotional cripples who then felt desperate to stay with him. I imagine these same followers are still with him today.
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I don't have the answer to your question, but I am not surprised people took sides. To me Joe Gauld always seemed like a Cult Leader. He would turn these weak parents and students into emotional cripples who then felt desperate to stay with him. I imagine these same followers are still with him today.
One of the very best ways to understand the Hyde culture is to take a close look at which staff have stayed for years and which have left the school after relatively brief stays. I think you'll see a clear pattern. It's well known that many Hyde staff don't stay long. Based on my recent affiliation with Hyde (several years) I've noticed that many staff are very young and eager; the good ones seem to leave (in my estimation, often it's because they realize that Hyde is not a healthy environment for many people). The staff who stay seem to have a lot in common. Many seem to have their own histories of significant struggles and cling to Hyde for security and comfort. They have nursed from Joe Gauld's breast, so to speak, and have a very hard time separating. They have absorbed the Gauld mystique and feel compelled to impose it on everyone who walks through Hyde's doors-students, parents, staff, etc. That's how Hyde has developed this cult reputation, which is widespread. That's why Hyde's antiquated approach is being left in the dust by other schools that have much more enlightened approaches to this kind of student body. That's why many educational consultants won't refer to Hyde; there are too many good alternatives.
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What about ties... are they part of the problem too?
Bow ties are a real problem. I have some nice J Garcia ties.
Let's get back to the ties... I found that to be a more intelligent, meaningful subject that most of the other crap being discussed.
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Let's get back to a more intelligent, meaningful subject.
One of the very best ways to understand the Hyde culture is to take a close look at which staff have stayed for years and which have left the school after relatively brief stays. I think you'll see a clear pattern. It's well known that many Hyde staff don't stay long. Based on my recent affiliation with Hyde (several years) I've noticed that many staff are very young and eager; the good ones seem to leave (in my estimation, often it's because they realize that Hyde is not a healthy environment for many people). The staff who stay seem to have a lot in common. Many seem to have their own histories of significant struggles and cling to Hyde for security and comfort. They have nursed from Joe Gauld's breast, so to speak, and have a very hard time separating. They have absorbed the Gauld mystique and feel compelled to impose it on everyone who walks through Hyde's doors-students, parents, staff, etc. That's how Hyde has developed this cult reputation, which is widespread. That's why Hyde's antiquated approach is being left in the dust by other schools that have much more enlightened approaches to this kind of student body. That's why many educational consultants won't refer to Hyde; there are too many good alternatives.
That seems to be a common thread running through all of these places. The basic model for this came from Synanon (although I'm not sure that any direct link can be traced the whole model of treatment is a chapter right out of Chuck Dederich's grand plan. Cult all have the same basic characteristics. See if any of this is familiar...
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria)
Much of what the Hyde PR machine touts sounds very good in theory. And, I'll concede that during my time at Hyde I met some genuinely committed, dedicated professionals. But there's no doubt in my mind that when you look at the big picture at Hyde you find so many examples of poorly qualified staff who mistreat students, staff who don't come close to living up to the Hyde ideals. There are so many problems at Hyde that the nice sounding literature and speeches are misleading. The good stories that come out of Hyde (I know there are some) are completely overshadowed by the tidal wave of bad stories.
Hyde reminds me a lot of what happened to Karl Marx's vision. On paper the model sounds quite good. But the implementation has been so flawed (see the former Soviet Union and China) that the system can't survive or live up to the ideals. Sounds like Hyde to me.
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Let's get back to a more intelligent, meaningful subject.
One of the very best ways to understand the Hyde culture is to take a close look at which staff have stayed for years and which have left the school after relatively brief stays. I think you'll see a clear pattern. It's well known that many Hyde staff don't stay long. Based on my recent affiliation with Hyde (several years) I've noticed that many staff are very young and eager; the good ones seem to leave (in my estimation, often it's because they realize that Hyde is not a healthy environment for many people). The staff who stay seem to have a lot in common. Many seem to have their own histories of significant struggles and cling to Hyde for security and comfort. They have nursed from Joe Gauld's breast, so to speak, and have a very hard time separating. They have absorbed the Gauld mystique and feel compelled to impose it on everyone who walks through Hyde's doors-students, parents, staff, etc. That's how Hyde has developed this cult reputation, which is widespread. That's why Hyde's antiquated approach is being left in the dust by other schools that have much more enlightened approaches to this kind of student body. That's why many educational consultants won't refer to Hyde; there are too many good alternatives.
That seems to be a common thread running through all of these places. The basic model for this came from Synanon (although I'm not sure that any direct link can be traced the whole model of treatment is a chapter right out of Chuck Dederich's grand plan. Cult all have the same basic characteristics. See if any of this is familiar...
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria)
Much of what the Hyde PR machine touts sounds very good in theory. And, I'll concede that during my time at Hyde I met some genuinely committed, dedicated professionals. But there's no doubt in my mind that when you look at the big picture at Hyde you find so many examples of poorly qualified staff who mistreat students, staff who don't come close to living up to the Hyde ideals. There are so many problems at Hyde that the nice sounding literature and speeches are misleading. The good stories that come out of Hyde (I know there are some) are completely overshadowed by the tidal wave of bad stories.
Hyde reminds me a lot of what happened to Karl Marx's vision. On paper the model sounds quite good. But the implementation has been so flawed (see the former Soviet Union and China) that the system can't survive or live up to the ideals. Sounds like Hyde to me.
I think you've stated it beautifully and accurately: Hyde sounds good in theory, but the school's attempt to implement the ideal falls terribly short. There are so many chinks in Hyde's armour (quality of staff, inferior educational quality, simplistic interventions with troubled students, arrogance) that it's hard to know where to begin. What's particularly disturbing to me is Hyde's unwillingness to acknowledge the flaws honestly -- there's a lot of whispering behind closed doors. I sense that Hyde doesn't take its own advice seriously: truth over harmony. Is it possible that the Hyde emperor has no clothes?
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Let's get back to a more intelligent, meaningful subject.
One of the very best ways to understand the Hyde culture is to take a close look at which staff have stayed for years and which have left the school after relatively brief stays. I think you'll see a clear pattern. It's well known that many Hyde staff don't stay long. Based on my recent affiliation with Hyde (several years) I've noticed that many staff are very young and eager; the good ones seem to leave (in my estimation, often it's because they realize that Hyde is not a healthy environment for many people). The staff who stay seem to have a lot in common. Many seem to have their own histories of significant struggles and cling to Hyde for security and comfort. They have nursed from Joe Gauld's breast, so to speak, and have a very hard time separating. They have absorbed the Gauld mystique and feel compelled to impose it on everyone who walks through Hyde's doors-students, parents, staff, etc. That's how Hyde has developed this cult reputation, which is widespread. That's why Hyde's antiquated approach is being left in the dust by other schools that have much more enlightened approaches to this kind of student body. That's why many educational consultants won't refer to Hyde; there are too many good alternatives.
That seems to be a common thread running through all of these places. The basic model for this came from Synanon (although I'm not sure that any direct link can be traced the whole model of treatment is a chapter right out of Chuck Dederich's grand plan. Cult all have the same basic characteristics. See if any of this is familiar...
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria)
Much of what the Hyde PR machine touts sounds very good in theory. And, I'll concede that during my time at Hyde I met some genuinely committed, dedicated professionals. But there's no doubt in my mind that when you look at the big picture at Hyde you find so many examples of poorly qualified staff who mistreat students, staff who don't come close to living up to the Hyde ideals. There are so many problems at Hyde that the nice sounding literature and speeches are misleading. The good stories that come out of Hyde (I know there are some) are completely overshadowed by the tidal wave of bad stories.
Hyde reminds me a lot of what happened to Karl Marx's vision. On paper the model sounds quite good. But the implementation has been so flawed (see the former Soviet Union and China) that the system can't survive or live up to the ideals. Sounds like Hyde to me.
I think you've stated it beautifully and accurately: Hyde sounds good in theory, but the school's attempt to implement the ideal falls terribly short. There are so many chinks in Hyde's armour (quality of staff, inferior educational quality, simplistic interventions with troubled students, arrogance) that it's hard to know where to begin. What's particularly disturbing to me is Hyde's unwillingness to acknowledge the flaws honestly -- there's a lot of whispering behind closed doors. I sense that Hyde doesn't take its own advice seriously: truth over harmony. Is it possible that the Hyde emperor has no clothes?
blah blah blah you can't answer the question either. I don't want to read your self absorbed ramblings. it is the same shit that is posted all over this forum. "Please don't dominate the rap Jack if you got nothing new to say" I want an answer to my question.
Niel Loughjizm
BTW
My favorite J Garcia tie is the view from the Ritz looking out over Central Park. Now you want to talk cult leader Joe can't hold a candle to Jerry. He is dead going on ten year, folk still worship him. Did you ever see joe's hand print on a bumper sticker?
http://stores.musictoday.com/store/prod ... 707&sfid=2 (http://stores.musictoday.com/store/product.asp?dept_id=3232&pf_id=JYAM08&band_id=707&sfid=2)
HE was a great guitarist. I would have like to see the Lesh show with Sco and Dickey Betts at the Fox in Atlanta. Sco is one of the greatest living jazz guitarist. Some of his chops remind me of Jerry
http://stores.musictoday.com/store/prod ... 625&sfid=2 (http://stores.musictoday.com/store/product_review.asp?band_id=258&dept_id=9029&pf_id=PLDD060625&sfid=2)
Did you hear the new MMW cd with Sco. Very hot.
http://www.myspace.com/medeskiscofieldmartinandwood (http://www.myspace.com/medeskiscofieldmartinandwood)
Might as well talk about stuff cause not one on this board knows shit about hyde.
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Let's get back to a more intelligent, meaningful subject.
One of the very best ways to understand the Hyde culture is to take a close look at which staff have stayed for years and which have left the school after relatively brief stays. I think you'll see a clear pattern. It's well known that many Hyde staff don't stay long. Based on my recent affiliation with Hyde (several years) I've noticed that many staff are very young and eager; the good ones seem to leave (in my estimation, often it's because they realize that Hyde is not a healthy environment for many people). The staff who stay seem to have a lot in common. Many seem to have their own histories of significant struggles and cling to Hyde for security and comfort. They have nursed from Joe Gauld's breast, so to speak, and have a very hard time separating. They have absorbed the Gauld mystique and feel compelled to impose it on everyone who walks through Hyde's doors-students, parents, staff, etc. That's how Hyde has developed this cult reputation, which is widespread. That's why Hyde's antiquated approach is being left in the dust by other schools that have much more enlightened approaches to this kind of student body. That's why many educational consultants won't refer to Hyde; there are too many good alternatives.
That seems to be a common thread running through all of these places. The basic model for this came from Synanon (although I'm not sure that any direct link can be traced the whole model of treatment is a chapter right out of Chuck Dederich's grand plan. Cult all have the same basic characteristics. See if any of this is familiar...
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria)
Much of what the Hyde PR machine touts sounds very good in theory. And, I'll concede that during my time at Hyde I met some genuinely committed, dedicated professionals. But there's no doubt in my mind that when you look at the big picture at Hyde you find so many examples of poorly qualified staff who mistreat students, staff who don't come close to living up to the Hyde ideals. There are so many problems at Hyde that the nice sounding literature and speeches are misleading. The good stories that come out of Hyde (I know there are some) are completely overshadowed by the tidal wave of bad stories.
Hyde reminds me a lot of what happened to Karl Marx's vision. On paper the model sounds quite good. But the implementation has been so flawed (see the former Soviet Union and China) that the system can't survive or live up to the ideals. Sounds like Hyde to me.
Oh and BTW Karl Marx vision has never been implemented. China? China was Maoism not Marxism. Marx had a vision about the natural evolution of industrialized societies. Hello !? China was a rural agrarian society. Socialist dictator ship of the prolatariate is not communism it is the prelude to communism. The USSR never never came close.
So to sum up you know as little about poli sci as you know about hyde. Dry up and blow away. The title of this tread is "History" not sophmoric rambles about shit you don't know.
Niel
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Hey,
I was in Rumford yesterday. I remember a couple of meets there. Rumford still stinks.
Niel
Let's get back to a more intelligent, meaningful subject.
One of the very best ways to understand the Hyde culture is to take a close look at which staff have stayed for years and which have left the school after relatively brief stays. I think you'll see a clear pattern. It's well known that many Hyde staff don't stay long. Based on my recent affiliation with Hyde (several years) I've noticed that many staff are very young and eager; the good ones seem to leave (in my estimation, often it's because they realize that Hyde is not a healthy environment for many people). The staff who stay seem to have a lot in common. Many seem to have their own histories of significant struggles and cling to Hyde for security and comfort. They have nursed from Joe Gauld's breast, so to speak, and have a very hard time separating. They have absorbed the Gauld mystique and feel compelled to impose it on everyone who walks through Hyde's doors-students, parents, staff, etc. That's how Hyde has developed this cult reputation, which is widespread. That's why Hyde's antiquated approach is being left in the dust by other schools that have much more enlightened approaches to this kind of student body. That's why many educational consultants won't refer to Hyde; there are too many good alternatives.
That seems to be a common thread running through all of these places. The basic model for this came from Synanon (although I'm not sure that any direct link can be traced the whole model of treatment is a chapter right out of Chuck Dederich's grand plan. Cult all have the same basic characteristics. See if any of this is familiar...
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/singer-conditions)
http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria (http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria)
Much of what the Hyde PR machine touts sounds very good in theory. And, I'll concede that during my time at Hyde I met some genuinely committed, dedicated professionals. But there's no doubt in my mind that when you look at the big picture at Hyde you find so many examples of poorly qualified staff who mistreat students, staff who don't come close to living up to the Hyde ideals. There are so many problems at Hyde that the nice sounding literature and speeches are misleading. The good stories that come out of Hyde (I know there are some) are completely overshadowed by the tidal wave of bad stories.
Hyde reminds me a lot of what happened to Karl Marx's vision. On paper the model sounds quite good. But the implementation has been so flawed (see the former Soviet Union and China) that the system can't survive or live up to the ideals. Sounds like Hyde to me.
Oh and BTW Karl Marx vision has never been implemented. China? China was Maoism not Marxism. Marx had a vision about the natural evolution of industrialized societies. Hello !? China was a rural agrarian society. Socialist dictator ship of the prolatariate is not communism it is the prelude to communism. The USSR never never came close.
So to sum up you know as little about poli sci as you know about hyde. Dry up and blow away. The title of this tread is "History" not sophmoric rambles about shit you don't know.
Niel
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Thread starter here. Thanks to all who posted whether pro, anti or ambivalent about Hyde.
I have some vague recollection of Malcolm and Joe both saying that the son sided against the father at some point during the upheaval. I admit this is a fuzzy memory, but Legg's impact on Hyde's history always fascinated me.
Anyone want to venture any insights into why Joe's selling of Hyde in the early years came across as so high profile, but after he came back he took a more to-the-ground approach?
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Thread starter here. Thanks to all who posted whether pro, anti or ambivalent about Hyde.
I have some vague recollection of Malcolm and Joe both saying that the son sided against the father at some point during the upheaval. I admit this is a fuzzy memory, but Legg's impact on Hyde's history always fascinated me.
Anyone want to venture any insights into why Joe's selling of Hyde in the early years came across as so high profile, but after he came back he took a more to-the-ground approach?
It's hard to know whether they (Malcolm, Laura, et al.) negotiated the nature of Joe's involvement. I wasn't associated with Hyde until I enrolled my child recently. At the time I knew nothing about Joe Gauld. Now that I've seen him in action (about 8 presentations) I'm quite appalled. He strikes me as a classic example of a megalomaniac, someone who is enthralled with himself and has a need to offer the grand performance. I hear him repeat the same stories over and over and I'm fascinated with the way Joe alternates between the avuncular grandpa and the raging maniac. Now that I've gotten a strong sense of his modus operandi, I think he's got some serious internal demons and unresolved issues. I don't think anyone could behave in such a self-centered, cocky, arrogant, angry and dismissive way unless there's an awful lot of pathology bubbling inside. It takes my breath away to think that he was at Hyde's helm for so long. Then again, it helps me to better understand why so many people are disgusted with Hyde (of course, the groupies love Joe because they seem desperate for the dictator to run their lives). Seeing Joe in action makes my family feel all that much better about our decision to leave Hyde and look for greener pastures.
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Thread starter here. Thanks to all who posted whether pro, anti or ambivalent about Hyde.
I have some vague recollection of Malcolm and Joe both saying that the son sided against the father at some point during the upheaval. I admit this is a fuzzy memory, but Legg's impact on Hyde's history always fascinated me.
Anyone want to venture any insights into why Joe's selling of Hyde in the early years came across as so high profile, but after he came back he took a more to-the-ground approach?
It's hard to know whether they (Malcolm, Laura, et al.) negotiated the nature of Joe's involvement. I wasn't associated with Hyde until I enrolled my child recently. At the time I knew nothing about Joe Gauld. Now that I've seen him in action (about 8 presentations) I'm quite appalled. He strikes me as a classic example of a megalomaniac, someone who is enthralled with himself and has a need to offer the grand performance. I hear him repeat the same stories over and over and I'm fascinated with the way Joe alternates between the avuncular grandpa and the raging maniac. Now that I've gotten a strong sense of his modus operandi, I think he's got some serious internal demons and unresolved issues. I don't think anyone could behave in such a self-centered, cocky, arrogant, angry and dismissive way unless there's an awful lot of pathology bubbling inside. It takes my breath away to think that he was at Hyde's helm for so long. Then again, it helps me to better understand why so many people are disgusted with Hyde (of course, the groupies love Joe because they seem desperate for the dictator to run their lives). Seeing Joe in action makes my family feel all that much better about our decision to leave Hyde and look for greener pastures.
What about the Rice report?
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Joe left first.
I'm a former student from the early 1970s. I obviously wasn't there at the time, but from what I heard from students who were, Ed engineered Joe's departure in a sort of coup d'état. This quickly backfired and the whole place imploded with a professional headmaster brought in and the Hyde philosophy jettisoned.
My personal view was always that Joe was absolutely crackers with an enormous ego, but sincere. Ed Legg was highly intelligent, but power hungry, arrogant and insincere.
Subsequently, I worked in Hong Kong in early 1985 with a recent college graduate from Bowdoin, small world, who's mother was brought in by the Board in the early 1980s to help evaluate Hyde School. Her surname was Ring and I believe she was a professor of education at Bowdoin. In any event, as I recall from several conversations with her daughter this individual spent a great deal of time interviewing Joe and Ed. She and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description.
I would have to agree with that accessment. Joe and Ed were like reverse image harliquins of each other. I personally like Joe, but I knew how to tip toe around him. Some of the people that did not got slammed pretty hard and hate him.. I can not blame them for that. Ed was/(is) an asshole in my book. I had a very bad experiance with his duplicity. He was a user par excelance.
Please flame me for my spelling. It is 7:00am CST( c as in china) and i just ran 6 miles. too lazy to spell check.
sorry I mean Ring
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Joe left first.
I'm a former student from the early 1970s. I obviously wasn't there at the time, but from what I heard from students who were, Ed engineered Joe's departure in a sort of coup d'état. This quickly backfired and the whole place imploded with a professional headmaster brought in and the Hyde philosophy jettisoned.
My personal view was always that Joe was absolutely crackers with an enormous ego, but sincere. Ed Legg was highly intelligent, but power hungry, arrogant and insincere.
Subsequently, I worked in Hong Kong in early 1985 with a recent college graduate from Bowdoin, small world, who's mother was brought in by the Board in the early 1980s to help evaluate Hyde School. Her surname was Ring and I believe she was a professor of education at Bowdoin. In any event, as I recall from several conversations with her daughter this individual spent a great deal of time interviewing Joe and Ed. She and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description.
I would have to agree with that accessment. Joe and Ed were like reverse image harliquins of each other. I personally like Joe, but I knew how to tip toe around him. Some of the people that did not got slammed pretty hard and hate him.. I can not blame them for that. Ed was/(is) an asshole in my book. I had a very bad experiance with his duplicity. He was a user par excelance.
Please flame me for my spelling. It is 7:00am CST( c as in china) and i just ran 6 miles. too lazy to spell check.
sorry I mean Ring
This assessment sounds like it's right on the money, that is that the consultant "and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description." I don't know the date of this report, but it seems remarkably relevant to the Hyde of today. It sounds like people recognized years ago that Joe is unstable and destructive. That's not news to me at all, nor to many other people associated with Hyde. I'm amazed that the implosion hasn't yet happened. Maybe Hyde is sinking under its own weight.
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Joe left first.
I'm a former student from the early 1970s. I obviously wasn't there at the time, but from what I heard from students who were, Ed engineered Joe's departure in a sort of coup d'état. This quickly backfired and the whole place imploded with a professional headmaster brought in and the Hyde philosophy jettisoned.
My personal view was always that Joe was absolutely crackers with an enormous ego, but sincere. Ed Legg was highly intelligent, but power hungry, arrogant and insincere.
Subsequently, I worked in Hong Kong in early 1985 with a recent college graduate from Bowdoin, small world, who's mother was brought in by the Board in the early 1980s to help evaluate Hyde School. Her surname was Ring and I believe she was a professor of education at Bowdoin. In any event, as I recall from several conversations with her daughter this individual spent a great deal of time interviewing Joe and Ed. She and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description.
I would have to agree with that accessment. Joe and Ed were like reverse image harliquins of each other. I personally like Joe, but I knew how to tip toe around him. Some of the people that did not got slammed pretty hard and hate him.. I can not blame them for that. Ed was/(is) an asshole in my book. I had a very bad experiance with his duplicity. He was a user par excelance.
Please flame me for my spelling. It is 7:00am CST( c as in china) and i just ran 6 miles. too lazy to spell check.
sorry I mean Ring
This assessment sounds like it's right on the money, that is that the consultant "and the board concluded that Hyde was enormously destructive and if it wasn't shut down then Joe had to to go. She viewed him as unstable and thought the Hyde environment was extremely unhealthy for children of any description." I don't know the date of this report, but it seems remarkably relevant to the Hyde of today. It sounds like people recognized years ago that Joe is unstable and destructive. That's not news to me at all, nor to many other people associated with Hyde. I'm amazed that the implosion hasn't yet happened. Maybe Hyde is sinking under its own weight.
any body got a copy?
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No but maybe someone can get in touch with this woman and ask her for either her report or her personal assessment. I agree that Hyde is very destructive. It is quite frightening that there are families who buy into it and become "Cult like" members of the "Hyde community." They even have meetings in their own communities to try to recruit more members. This doesn't seem to me to operate as a school, does it to you?
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No but maybe someone can get in touch with this woman and ask her for either her report or her personal assessment. I agree that Hyde is very destructive. It is quite frightening that there are families who buy into it and become "Cult like" members of the "Hyde community." They even have meetings in their own communities to try to recruit more members. This doesn't seem to me to operate as a school, does it to you?
By self definition Hyde is not a normal school. I think the question that has been raised is whether it lives up to the hype. "Cult like" .. Any group that draws a line between it self and the society at large is going to be "Cult like" Christians are "cult like" Jews are "cult like" FreeMasons are "cult like" Is it harmful to be a FreeMason? I don't know. Grown men that dress like clowns and drive midget cars in parades ... I don't know ... maybe there is an agument that the Shriners are a harmful cult.
Joe was always a polarizing figure. I would be interested in learning what was in the Ring report and the events from around that time period. I am working on a book about a kid that goes to a school like hyde in that time frame. The facts would be nice so I can bend the in order to make the claim : "Any resemblensce to persons living ...."
Niel Loughjizm
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No but maybe someone can get in touch with this woman and ask her for either her report or her personal assessment. I agree that Hyde is very destructive. It is quite frightening that there are families who buy into it and become "Cult like" members of the "Hyde community." They even have meetings in their own communities to try to recruit more members. This doesn't seem to me to operate as a school, does it to you?
By self definition Hyde is not a normal school. I think the question that has been raised is whether it lives up to the hype. "Cult like" .. Any group that draws a line between it self and the society at large is going to be "Cult like" Christians are "cult like" Jews are "cult like" FreeMasons are "cult like" Is it harmful to be a FreeMason? I don't know. Grown men that dress like clowns and drive midget cars in parades ... I don't know ... maybe there is an agument that the Shriners are a harmful cult.
Joe was always a polarizing figure. I would be interested in learning what was in the Ring report and the events from around that time period. I am working on a book about a kid that goes to a school like hyde in that time frame. The facts would be nice so I can bend the in order to make the claim : "Any resemblensce to persons living ...."
Niel Loughjizm
What I find remarkable about Hyde is that these serious concerns have persisted for decades. I have met many people who are horrified by Hyde; yet, each year Hyde manages to attract a new crop of desperate and vulnerable parents. Some buy in but many merely tolerate Hyde until they can leave or leave in disgust. What a sad, sad story Hyde is.
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As a former student at Hyde in the mid 1970s, I find this thread particularly interesting. Does any one have any information on what happened to Ed Legg and what he's been doing since his departure from Hyde?
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As a former student at Hyde in the mid 1970s, I find this thread particularly interesting. Does any one have any information on what happened to Ed Legg and what he's been doing since his departure from Hyde?
Every thing I know about Ed I learned from google. He was/is the PR guy for Southern Maine University.
This tread has a paradox: those that know don't talk, those that talk don't know. I posted before I am interested in the period of the Legg-Gauld war and the Legg amputation. I really think is would make a fascinating plot.
Niel
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What a fascinating set of stories you people tell! If you haven't checked other wings of this site you might not know me. My name is Gary Eskow, and I'm a journalist and former Hyde parent. After being banished from the school one dark Fall night my Malcolm, I wrote up the account of my experience at Hyde. THE JEKYLL SIDE OF HYDE is all over the 'net; those who would like me to send it directly as a Word document can e mail me (www.garyeskow.com (http://www.garyeskow.com)) and you'll see that I've interviewed tons of people, which I mention as a preamble--- talking to you on the phone and getting your essential story should be painless for those who are interested in the endeavor.
GE
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Hey,
If you know who Elliot Sharp is you can't be all bad.
Niel
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Elliot's a good guy... good player as well. I don't know how far in the way back machine you go, but I'm interviewing The Ventures right now!
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Legg spent some time doing some type of consulting work (?) for some company down South prior to coming back to Maine. I seem to recollect that the company was affiliated with petroleum, perhaps in Georgia? And there must have been other stuff, but I don't know what. Ed and Anne then "retired" back to Maine...
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After leaving Hyde, Ed Legg did development work (fundraising, planned giving, lobbying) for Ducks Unlimited and The Nature Conservancy. He and Ann retired to Maine, where they became involved with the University of New England in Biddeford. Ed served on the board for a time, then accepted the position of V.P. for Development. He recently re-retired.
I was a Hyde student in the late 70's-early 80's.
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gary...or mr. eskow...i haven't finished your article. i think i got throug hthe first two pages. i can tell there's a little bit of that fiery passion behind it, but it did not seem, so far, to contain the usual "hyde bashing". but i like the idea of giving the info over to someone who has no tie with the Hyde Schools in the sense to get as fair a perspective as possible. also, we have about 40 Hyde D.C. juniors up here to learn about the senior prep process and see how a hyde boarding school runs. i've also learned how different, and similar, the process can be in the two different environments. hearing from the charter school students is a definitely good idea (there are mixed views there as well as here). i went with 3 other seniors here, 3 of the d.c. kids, some faculty to go meet with some students and faculty from bath up in new hampshire. we talked about the change in the senior eval process as well as graduation (i.e. the grad. designations and speeches) and how we'd like to change it. i'll try to post more details about that later (i think some of you will be pleased with some of the changes most likely being made to senior evals). so yea, i think the whole giving-the-story-to-a-more-dispassionate-writer is a good idea. let us know how that goes. i also talked to some bath kids about this site, one came up to me and said "i've read some of your posts on fornits"...and we talked. we had some of the same ideas about this site and the majority of the posts on here. biggest agreement: more respect for those that just shared their stories in a non-bashing way. it was easier for us to see some of the things that went on at hyde without all the bitching behind the story. we both thought of the same post too: the "i lost my virginity at hyde" thread. we even reacted to it the same way after we had read it: we both emailed it to mr. bragg. idk where i'm going with this. i'll fill ya'll in on the meeting when i've got some time to sit down with the notes and doodles i made during this 4 hour meeting and write a post.
- Bill(y) Procida '07
ps....i finished the college process with 11/12 acceptances...graduation t-minus 61 days :)
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Billy--- feel free to address me in whatever manner you're comfortable. Your continued postings on this site give you the opportunity to hone your powers of deductive reasoning, which, if they are ever to be sharp enough to compete in the market place of ideas with real players, must be dispassionate.
When you get past the first couple of pages of my paper, do let me know how you feel about it. Your are in an interesting position to judge its veracity, since we seminared together during our overlapping time at Hyde.
Of course I'm bashing noone. Candidly, however, I must say that in retrospect I find Joe Gauld's treatment of me- and others- and, more importantly, the failure of staff to address his transgressions openly, extremely disturbing. Duncan McCrann behaved in a manner that was thoroughly unprofessional, and in my opinion, cowardly. I refrain from indulging in wit for wit's sake and therefore will not refer to him as the "cravenly Mr. McCrann," though I find the phrase apt. I'm sure he has fine qualities as well.
Keep challenging those who, in your judgement, shoot from the hip on this site and attack only for the sake of striking out! Who does that enterprise serve? I continue to be impressed with your impartiality... it takes courage to swim upstream- keep up the good work!
Gary Eskow
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Billy--- feel free to address me in whatever manner you're comfortable. Your continued postings on this site give you the opportunity to hone your powers of deductive reasoning, which, if they are ever to be sharp enough to compete in the market place of ideas with real players, must be dispassionate.
When you get past the first couple of pages of my paper, do let me know how you feel about it. Your are in an interesting position to judge its veracity, since we seminared together during our overlapping time at Hyde.
Of course I'm bashing noone. Candidly, however, I must say that in retrospect I find Joe Gauld's treatment of me- and others- and, more importantly, the failure of staff to address his transgressions openly, extremely disturbing. Duncan McCrann behaved in a manner that was thoroughly unprofessional, and in my opinion, cowardly. I refrain from indulging in wit for wit's sake and therefore will not refer to him as the "cravenly Mr. McCrann," though I find the phrase apt. I'm sure he has fine qualities as well.
Keep challenging those who, in your judgement, shoot from the hip on this site and attack only for the sake of striking out! Who does that enterprise serve? I continue to be impressed with your impartiality... it takes courage to swim upstream- keep up the good work!
Gary Eskow
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Billy, thanks for your post, but I am a bit disappointed that you have completely ignored the questions that were posed to you on other threads. These were very sincere questions [posed directly to you, and yet you have ignored them.
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gary...or mr. eskow...i haven't finished your article. i think i got throug hthe first two pages. i can tell there's a little bit of that fiery passion behind it, but it did not seem, so far, to contain the usual "hyde bashing". but i like the idea of giving the info over to someone who has no tie with the Hyde Schools in the sense to get as fair a perspective as possible. also, we have about 40 Hyde D.C. juniors up here to learn about the senior prep process and see how a hyde boarding school runs. i've also learned how different, and similar, the process can be in the two different environments. hearing from the charter school students is a definitely good idea (there are mixed views there as well as here). i went with 3 other seniors here, 3 of the d.c. kids, some faculty to go meet with some students and faculty from bath up in new hampshire. we talked about the change in the senior eval process as well as graduation (i.e. the grad. designations and speeches) and how we'd like to change it. i'll try to post more details about that later (i think some of you will be pleased with some of the changes most likely being made to senior evals). so yea, i think the whole giving-the-story-to-a-more-dispassionate-writer is a good idea. let us know how that goes. i also talked to some bath kids about this site, one came up to me and said "i've read some of your posts on fornits"...and we talked. we had some of the same ideas about this site and the majority of the posts on here. biggest agreement: more respect for those that just shared their stories in a non-bashing way. it was easier for us to see some of the things that went on at hyde without all the bitching behind the story. we both thought of the same post too: the "i lost my virginity at hyde" thread. we even reacted to it the same way after we had read it: we both emailed it to mr. bragg. idk where i'm going with this. i'll fill ya'll in on the meeting when i've got some time to sit down with the notes and doodles i made during this 4 hour meeting and write a post.
- Bill(y) Procida '07
ps....i finished the college process with 11/12 acceptances...graduation t-minus 61 days :)
Thanks for your comments Billy. I'm curious to know why you haven't responded to the questions that were posed to you a number of days ago.
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we both thought of the same post too: the "i lost my virginity at hyde" thread. we even reacted to it the same way after we had read it: we both emailed it to mr. bragg. idk where i'm going with this.
Could someone fill me in on who Mr. Bragg is and his relevance to the "i lost my virginity "thread? thnx
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we both thought of the same post too: the "i lost my virginity at hyde" thread. we even reacted to it the same way after we had read it: we both emailed it to mr. bragg. idk where i'm going with this.
Could someone fill me in on who Mr. Bragg is and his relevance to the "i lost my virginity "thread? thnx
Look at the Hyde website under faculty and look for Mr Bragg. It appears to me that Billy is talking about a staff member. Unlike many other boarding schools, Hyde only lists the names of the staff, not anything about their credentials or how long they have been at Hyde. My guess is that these stats would not be very impressive. The average teacher/staff usually stays one to two years at Hyde. As soon as many of them find out the truth about Hyde, they get the hell out of there.
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back to the subject of the Thread ....
Why did Ed leave Hyde?
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you might need to repost questions. i barely have time at hyde to get on, let alone surf through posts for specific questions. g2g dinnertime.
- Bill Procida '07
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you might need to repost questions. i barely have time at hyde to get on, let alone surf through posts for specific questions. g2g dinnertime.
- Bill Procida '07
He/she did repost the question, Billy, namely:
Why did Ed leave Hyde?
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o...i thought the person was asking about past questions i was "ignoring". ...no clue why he left. i don't even know who the guy is. i'm more of a woodstock guy thans bath...
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Okay... Thanks for checking in again. Perhaps you could answer my question (I wasn't the one who originally asked about Ed), namely:
we both thought of the same post too: the "i lost my virginity at hyde" thread. we even reacted to it the same way after we had read it: we both emailed it to mr. bragg. idk where i'm going with this.
Could someone fill me in on who Mr. Bragg is and his relevance to the "i lost my virginity "thread? thnx
What issues raised in the "I lost my virginity at Hyde" thread were you responding to? thnx
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in a nutshell: this freshmen had a crush on this senior. she was a virgin. eventually, they end up having sex and go through the whole "don't tell anyone" thing. when she finally turns it in, he denies it and everyone believes him, thinking he's making it up b/c she everyone knew she liked him. it was sad. that's all i was responding to. and me and this other senior from bath had both read it and felt the same way about it. mr. bragg didn't do anythign wrong. he just picked them up when they were walking back to campus. but he was the only other name in the story and i felt someone at bath should know.
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you might need to repost questions. i barely have time at hyde to get on, let alone surf through posts for specific questions. g2g dinnertime.
- Bill Procida '07
Bill: Here are the questions that someone posted several weeks ago for you to answer (or seek to answer by consulting Hyde staff if you don't have the information), and several times since then:
Here are the questions Hyde should be confronted with and expected to answer:
1. What percentage of students who apply to Hyde are accepted?
2. How many students enroll in each grade, 9 through 12?
3. What percentage of students who enroll in 9th grade actually graduate from Hyde? 10th grade? 11th grade? 12th grade? That is, what percentage of students leave Hyde without graduating?
4. What percentage of Hyde graduates (a) enroll in college, and (b) graduate from college? How do these percentages compare with national figures?
5. When Hyde publicizes parent satisfaction data, who do they include in the sample? Do they include parents who enrolled at Hyde but left, or only those who lasted through graduation (who, obviously, are the people most likely to be satisfied with Hyde)? Does Hyde stack the deck by including only those who stay at Hyde until the end, or do they include everyone who enrolled? How honest is Hyde about the data they report?
I too would like your thoughts about these issues.
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in a nutshell: this freshmen had a crush on this senior. she was a virgin. eventually, they end up having sex and go through the whole "don't tell anyone" thing. when she finally turns it in, he denies it and everyone believes him, thinking he's making it up b/c she everyone knew she liked him. it was sad. that's all i was responding to. and me and this other senior from bath had both read it and felt the same way about it. mr. bragg didn't do anythign wrong. he just picked them up when they were walking back to campus. but he was the only other name in the story and i felt someone at bath should know.
bill,
The thing you should be aware of is Hyde has a track record of marginalizing the victims of sexual predictors. It is hard to look at this and not believe it is not a institutional cultural problem. I am sure you have heard the story about Joe and the twenty year old hyde graduate.
Emil
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bill,
The thing you should be aware of is Hyde has a track record of marginalizing the victims of sexual predictors. It is hard to look at this and not believe it is not a institutional cultural problem. I am sure you have heard the story about Joe and the twenty year old hyde graduate.
Emil
Sorry, but this does not sound like the "Emil" we have come to know and "love." This sounds like a HYDE TROLL.
::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff::