Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 05, 2006, 01:26:00 AM
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I can't wait to read it. I just got hold of a hard copy edition of Maia's new book. I been reading her blogs lately. I like the part where she rags on Schembri's bogus statement about guards being fed up over budget cuts enuff to want to murder kids. That was a real hoot!
Why was I sold? Well, I had made like three full pages of reply to Maia's blog on Schembri's really silly statement that received alot of harsh criticisms. Then I deleted all three pages of it after I realized that I was merely mega expounding on her very precise comment of how torture is not good enuff for the staff at boot camps who suffer from morale. So in a way she really shoved it back at Schembri and all the staff by saying thanks to Schembri for the wake up on torture that doesn't work.
But when I first started looking up Maia's work I didn't expect her to have blogs. She does though, and she's clear. I don't have the words yet to place her calm logic and right statement of facts. I'll be honest, I am not sure what to make of her. I am a survivor of Straight. I was there three years as you know I got the worst of the worst like alot of people. I want to read more on her and this book before I make any full opinion, as always you know I am a harsh skeptic like so many here.
I am still financially screwed as literal result of what Straight Incorporated has done to me so books sometimes find their way back to the store since I need money more than most. But I am hoping that this book turns out to be a gold brick that I have been waiting for, something that I can use to explain to people when they look at me stupid or turn me out when I try to explain to them what happened.
So anywho, I bought a book for my homosexual friend tonight and was like, "He got a book, I should get me on, too". The cashier walked me to the book in the Sociology/Social Sciences area of the store and bingo bango. Nice hard bound edition. Usually I hate books and only like to read the ones that have an immediate use right now. Especially school books that don't pay off until you get into a career. I am a spontaneous reader. I like gore because my life has reflected that, but gore and any horror or action that has a deep meaning and a deep cause like for example say the English Patient, or Devil's Rejects or some other deep fucking movie or a Stephen King book or for a really good read something from Karl Marx or anything on the humanities or philosophy of mind. I don't do slashers. Usually I will find a book laying around, a trashed book noone wants or that was deliberately left laying around so I could find it, and I will see if it's good. I don't really keep alot of books I guess. I keep a pile of books that I just can't seem to rid myself of since I am a packrat.
But what I'm hoping for is a good smooth read that speaks to me. If I like the book I will probably set up a reading for it at my college. I know students who will attend.
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On 2006-04-04 22:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I can't wait to read it. I just got hold of a hard copy edition of Maia's new book. I been reading her blogs lately. I like the part where she rags on Schembri's bogus statement about guards being fed up over budget cuts enuff to want to murder kids. That was a real hoot!
Why was I sold? Well, I had made like three full pages of reply to Maia's blog on Schembri's really silly statement that received alot of harsh criticisms. Then I deleted all three pages of it after I realized that I was merely mega expounding on her very precise comment of how torture is not good enuff for the staff at boot camps who suffer from morale. So in a way she really shoved it back at Schembri and all the staff by saying thanks to Schembri for the wake up on torture that doesn't work.
But when I first started looking up Maia's work I didn't expect her to have blogs. She does though, and she's clear. I don't have the words yet to place her calm logic and right statement of facts. I'll be honest, I am not sure what to make of her. I am a survivor of Straight. I was there three years as you know I got the worst of the worst like alot of people. I want to read more on her and this book before I make any full opinion, as always you know I am a harsh skeptic like so many here.
I am still financially screwed as literal result of what Straight Incorporated has done to me so books sometimes find their way back to the store since I need money more than most. But I am hoping that this book turns out to be a gold brick that I have been waiting for, something that I can use to explain to people when they look at me stupid or turn me out when I try to explain to them what happened.
So anywho, I bought a book for my homosexual friend tonight and was like, "He got a book, I should get me on, too". The cashier walked me to the book in the Sociology/Social Sciences area of the store and bingo bango. Nice hard bound edition. Usually I hate books and only like to read the ones that have an immediate use right now. Especially school books that don't pay off until you get into a career. I am a spontaneous reader. I like gore because my life has reflected that, but gore and any horror or action that has a deep meaning and a deep cause like for example say the English Patient, or Devil's Rejects or some other deep fucking movie or a Stephen King book or for a really good read something from Karl Marx or anything on the humanities or philosophy of mind. I don't do slashers. Usually I will find a book laying around, a trashed book noone wants or that was deliberately left laying around so I could find it, and I will see if it's good. I don't really keep alot of books I guess. I keep a pile of books that I just can't seem to rid myself of since I am a packrat.
But what I'm hoping for is a good smooth read that speaks to me. If I like the book I will probably set up a reading for it at my college. I know students who will attend."
Dont you know?
Its a tradition to give books to homosexuals as gifts.
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Is it? Ya know? You heard of that tradition? I read a doctor's blog says clearly that responding privately and anonymously to an original post was a sign of pure closet homosex.
I started the original post, and I am going to open Maia's book here in a moment.
You should get that closet homosex tradition thing you got going on checked. It aint' so bad coming out of the closet, I heard you can get more ass when you're out than in. Eventually you come out anyways, whether or not you post and let people know who you are or not.
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I just really don't like that bitch Ray, I really don't.
But I digress sincerely, Maia is truly a great writer and no holds barred here. I approve. She rises above the perfunctory, garbled, and exxagerated messages that Richard Bradbury fed to her for long periods of time; a mark of a really good writer/journalist. She was able to see and edit her way through all of his bullshit, and she turned a real piece of shit into something he could never do for himself. So it was a win win situation - Szalavitz uses her 'few months in a boot camp' to get some more fame, Ray and Wes get to defame and lie some more. But Maia is quicker than you two put together, and a far better writer than all here including myself.
Lie 1: Highly exxagerated number of females as in 'most all' molested by staff at Straight during Ray's time, of which none have come forward.
Thank you for finally helping the world to see that Richard Bradbury is a liar. More lies from Ray to come as I read more. I can't confirm it until I am finished on the portions of Bradbury, if someone wants to finalize before I do it please do so. But I think we will finally find that Ray's little dream world of wanting to have actually closed Straight headquarters was largely equal in his delusion of his actually breaking and entering the same building and finding no documents of worthwhile potential libel. Did I ever tell you that I closed a Straight warehouse in Texas all by myself? I have no proof of this, but it did happen. Oh, and I have a really big law firm that wants to take your case in the event you want to sue Straight. Fagbury, lol.
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bimp.
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On 2006-04-05 02:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
Lie 1: Highly exxagerated number of females as in 'most all' molested by staff at Straight during Ray's time, of which none have come forward.
Don't know about 'most all' but I was friends with a female staff member that was there at the same time and I can confirm that she and others had numerous 'encounters' with other female staff, staff trainees and fifth phasers. I can think of 4 female staff, either trainee or junior, off the top of my head that did that many, many times. That I can confirm.
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lezbo staff? wow. i never saw anything like that.
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and what positions did they favor?
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On 2006-04-05 07:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"lezbo staff? wow. i never saw anything like that."
I hadn't seen or heard of it either. It wasn't until after I got out and my dad had a staff member that came up from Sarasota live with us. That's when I got all the juicy gossip. That would have been around 84-85. It involved people that eventually went on to Dallas and Orlando for sure and one to I believe either VA or MI.
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name names
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it smells like bs to sell books
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On 2006-04-05 08:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"name names"
If it was you would you want your name plastered all over here? Especially in light of the 2 o 3 assholes that continue to trash people here?
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On 2006-04-05 08:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"it smells like bs to sell books
"
Think what you want. Anyone who was on staff or trainee at the time knows exactly what I'm talking about.
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On 2006-04-05 08:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-04-05 08:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"it smells like bs to sell books
"
Think what you want. Anyone who was on staff or trainee at the time knows exactly what I'm talking about."
you must be an ex staff member then.
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My name is not Michael Sherman. Also, I have never heard of this person you are calling Richard Bradbury.
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On 2006-04-05 08:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-04-05 08:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"name names"
If it was you would you want your name plastered all over here? Especially in light of the 2 o 3 assholes that continue to trash people here?"
Shit.... just fucking put up or shut up.
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i was on staff at the time and think it is bullshit. name names, get it going
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hey three springs, who are you? i heard you were a spammer and not good to talk to, which makes me want to say hi. when were you on staff?
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On 2006-04-05 09:50:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"I am former staff what exactly are you trying to say now?
Former staff where?
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i think that there are more than two respondees here. i was on staff at straight and never heard of that happening except in consentual homosexual relationships after straight. i heard of phaser guys banging each other so i assume some girl stuff happened too, but i never heard about it.
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There will always be abuse in any treatment setting, but how much is another thing. I would assume that there is more than we think but I never was aware of it at staright in springfield amonst staff and clients. i ask for proof because i think it is bullshit. if it were substansiated by one person i may even be willing to revolt about it but in order for that to happed, all you mystery liars need to fess up. name a name, say something. speak out. if not you are rumor builders and just perpetuating your own anger at a bygone bunch of bullshit. where are the pummelled dykes?
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I know of a couple of guys that "took it the hard way" in VA STR8. Brad S. was one of them. Of course 'confidentiality' was enforced to avoid any problems with the law.
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If you are brad s , say so or if you know what he is up to tell me. we used to play some frisbee on the mall and he was a friend. i dont know if what you are saying is true though.
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my guess is that brad s is probably doing pretty well.
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Just got wind of this thread. I never heard of anything like that happening at straight in springfield. I also knew Brad S and if anyone knows what he is up to, please message me privately.
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On 2006-04-05 10:28:00, funster wrote:
"Just got wind of this thread. I never heard of anything like that happening at straight in springfield. I also knew Brad S and if anyone knows what he is up to, please message me privately. "
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yah i can see your fatalistic view of human byproducts runs rampid. please see the "i just" thread
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"rampid"?
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On 2006-04-05 09:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
you must be an ex staff member then."
Nope but one lived at my house for a while.
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bullshit, get honest.
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On 2006-04-05 09:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i was on staff at the time and think it is bullshit. name names, get it going"
State your name and I'll post the first names.
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my name is rivers of shit.
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Why? i never claimed anything. Were you in springfield?
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sorry i was just kidding.
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On 2006-04-05 10:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Why? i never claimed anything. Were you in springfield? "
Did you think he was talking to you? You didn't write the anon post he was responding to.
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actually i think i did.
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so was anybody chatting here today from springfield?
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yes....YES.
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when were you there rivers of shit?
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the entire time, from beginning to end..only a couple of years ~physically, but i travelled there in my nightmares until it closed. i'm ok now.
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so who are you? say it! i dare you. get real with your bad self. i was there 84-86.
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no way, man. pm me & maYBE I WILL..sorry 4 the caps.
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done. check it.
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check it again
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Try opening your eyes. I already stated that confidentiality was enforced and therefore sexual abuse was covered up. Simple as that. Pleasant dreams. :smile:
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On 2006-04-05 10:23:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Is it possible that the abuse took place behind closed doors?
Still my question stands. Is it possible that the abuse took place out of your vision?"
I agree with you. I believe it was possible even though I never saw anyone get raped while in Straight. Rape, sexual assault, molestation, etc., alomst by definition are acts that take place behind closed doors and there is rarely ever a witness. The host homes at Straight provided ample opportunity for such abuse to occur since newcomers were locked in bedrooms all night with the oldcomer with NO ADULT SUPERVISION.....
"I can only wonder but I somehow suspect that an abused resident is not likely to wear a sign about their necks revealing the gruesome details of their recent dehumanization. Nor would I suspect that a resident in that time period, or in most cases this time period be particularly willing to step up to the plate and face the full fury of the programs and his own peers by making an accustion against a staff member."
Again, I think you hit the nail on the head....research has shown that sexual abuse victims are most likely to remain silent. Plus, the anon poster who keeps mentioning Straight's twisted confidentiality policy makes an important point. It virtually guaranteed that abuse would stay secret. The No Talking Behind Backs policy forbade ever mentioning (even to parents) what we saw or heard in host homes, and forbade ever discussing what went on in group (even to parents).
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Anyone from VA (83ish) remember the incident where some guy kept bleeding out his ass in group? I'm not kidding about this! I recall this being discussed on one these forums a while back. The guy had been raped and was bleeding in his chair... Gross.
I can't say that i recall it actually happening, but do seem to have memories of the confrontation about it going on..but i didn't see the blood and don't recall much from back then. Perhaps someone who knows more about it will be so kind as to corroborate..I do recall Dean Mistretta being mentioned as the one who dealt with it in group that day.
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Thats sad
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anusamonstus, it is possible that it happened. i just said i did not see any of it. this is a chicken and egg thing. how do you know it happened?
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If it is well phrased and not crude.
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On 2006-04-05 14:57:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"
On 2006-04-05 12:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Try opening your eyes. I already stated that confidentiality was enforced and therefore sexual abuse was covered up. Simple as that. Pleasant dreams. :smile: "
I noticed that as well, however it did not answer the question I have proposed to those who are for some reason now all of the sudden being very evasive, and from the looks of it spamming up other threads as well.
This from the people who claim myself to be an evil neer do well?
The worst government is the most moral. One composed of cynics
is often very tolerant and human. But when fanatics are on top,
there is no limit to oppression.
--H.L. Mencken
"
Waht didn't get answered for you?
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Yes, come now Mr three dogs crapping, what is your question?
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On 2006-04-05 10:23:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"
On 2006-04-05 10:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"There will always be abuse in any treatment setting, but how much is another thing. I would assume that there is more than we think but I never was aware of it at staright in springfield amonst staff and clients. i ask for proof because i think it is bullshit. if it were substansiated by one person i may even be willing to revolt about it but in order for that to happed, all you mystery liars need to fess up. name a name, say something. speak out. if not you are rumor builders and just perpetuating your own anger at a bygone bunch of bullshit. where are the pummelled dykes?"
Is it possible that the abuse took place behind closed doors? The last time I checked there certainly was no training manual for how to properly sodomize a resident. If anything the ones inclined to that sort of action probably referred to the movie Deliverance.
Still my question stands. Is it possible that the abuse took place out of your vision?
I can only wonder but I somehow suspect that an abused resident is not likely to wear a sign about their necks revealing the gruesome details of their recent dehumanization. Nor would I suspect that a resident in that time period, or in most cases this time period be particularly willing to step up to the plate and face the full fury of the programs and his own peers by making an accustion against a staff member.
Just a thought or two. Have a lovely day I am going to bed. One has to multiply thoughts to the point where there aren't enough
policemen to control them
--Stanislaw Lec
"
Maia's book clearly states that Richard was fully aware of a large number of female patients being molested. Book states in his words that he was on staff, as in he'd graduated and then returned to staff, and that the person above him was threatening to 'start him over' as being on phase one. It just sounds really fishy like all the rest of his shit he spews. Breaking and entering is not confirmed, but I'm sure as soon as I finish his chapters that poor Maia wrote it will all turn out to be the fucking shit that everyone is so used to from Ray and his pack of dickbags he runs with.
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Shit's comin' down and i don't care... :silly:
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On 2006-04-05 11:39:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Yet no one will answer my question? Could it be possible these sexual abuses took place out of sight and out of mind?I am not a vegetarian because I love animals; I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.
-- A. Whitney Brown
"
NO they didn't. In response to your question, and in response to my original post. My original post is that I still find large fucking holes in Richard's stories of bullshit exxageration.
I am reading Maia Szalavitz book, "Help at Any Cost". She is a really good writer. But as always, I am left with a stank taste in my mouth whenever I even hear, and now read, about that idiot Richard Bradbury. He's so bogus it makes me shudder to think why someone like Maia would waste her time on him and why she didn't seek out better more qualified people to tell their story on Straight. Ray is not a human rights advocate, he's a liar.
First off, the book quotes Ray as saying, "He heard some of the female staff saying they were sexually molesting the girls in order to 'break' them". We all know the stories of the sexually humiliating verbal shit we all went through, but COME ON, Richards' done it again with his bullshit.
So the question is not whether or not it was going on, Ray said it was. The questions are different actually. - How many is 'some'? I have yet to read on the rest of Ray's chapters present in Maia's book, but she clearly states that most names that would incriminate people are deleted or changed, so I doubt the word 'some' is going to be cleared up as I read.
Let's say 'some' only means two. This means that Richard had conversations with two (or more) staff females who were literally physically and criminally touching female patients. Well, worse has happened and I'm not doubting that it might have happened, but it remains more hype that that little bitch Ray is dishing out, just like that whole bullshit 'breaking and entering' crap he spouts. Did it happen? Well, the book now says it did, but there remains no proof other than the stank taste in my mouth and bad feeling in my gut that I trust that states that Ray is an idiot circus boy out for attention.
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So how come you keep asking the question?
Ah, nevermind....
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Shoot...
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As in ask the question.
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You had better watch yourself. Our org (IPAC) doesn't take too kindly to that sort of thing.
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I know sexual abuse happened in Straights. How could it not happen?
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"Back door" good one! :lol:
btw, IPAC stands for "International Penguins Action Committee" in case you haven't gathered that already.
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You?? No way!! You've gotta be kidding!! :lol:
All kinds of lovely things. You name it...
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All of the above.. RoS
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On 2006-04-05 15:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
Book states in his words that he was on staff, as in he'd graduated and then returned to staff, and that the person above him was threatening to 'start him over' as being on phase one. It just sounds really fishy
I know of 2 staff members that were threatened with being started over if they reported shit that they saw. They left staff and then reported it.
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What'd they see?
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Nothing new, just PBJ diets, restraints, marathoning etc. It was right around the time period that Newton went to Jersey and Straight was promising to *clean up it's act*.
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On 2006-04-05 16:14:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
Now that the point has been conceded that it is possible that abuse has gone on out of sight and out of mind, what other back door shennanigans could have possibly occured?
Add kidnapping kids who were 18 or older to force them back into the program to the list of back door shennanigans....
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As a reminder we are trying to avoid any or all non-straight references so please refrain from using the words back door.
I have no idea what the hell you are talking about with that inane bullshit about windmills and mules, but it's ironic that you say what you did about backdoors as that actually was straight inc lingo.. A "back door" meant someone or something used as a potential "way out" or "way back" to one's "druggie past"
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On 2006-04-05 18:04:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"I am back as the lovely presence of my old paramour Nonconformistlaw has lulled me in to once again tilt with windmills."
Nice to see you again TSW! :wave:
But what do you mean by 'tilt with windmills'??
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On 2006-04-05 18:28:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
How many run aways did you witness during you time in the loving bosom of the beast called straight?
Directly from the building or running period?
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On 2006-04-05 18:33:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
During your stay specifically what did you witness with your own two eyes. Of course if you are blind then it would be what you heard with your own two ears. If you are blind and deaf then one has to really question the logic of a program that treats/abuses children who are blind and deaf for substance abuse.
:lol: :lol:
Beatings, too many to count.
People sitting in urine and feces for hours on end.
Extreme sleep deprivation. (One girl was kept awake for 9 days straight for not speaking or writing her MI. She never, ever said a word to anyone the entire time she was there. She eventually went to a mental hospital after about 3 weeks. She stood up in group one day, completely out of the blue, reached into her jeans, pulled out a bloody Kotex and threw it at staff in front of group. Only person I ever saw go to a hospital during the two years I was there.)
Withholding and/or limitation of food and nutrition as punishment, sometimes for weeks on end.
Girls humiliated and told they were partly responsible when they were goaded (sp?) into divulging that they had been sexually abused.
"Spit therapy"
People being lied to and told that they were court ordered when, in fact, they were not.
Total and complete isolation from the outside world including family members who didn't pass being "checked out"......
There's much more.
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On 2006-04-05 18:47:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Seriously people I can no longer look this forum straight in the eye.
Is it a past owner him/herself who is spouting out this anon crap?
or another brain dead treatment penguin
What crap would that be?
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On 2006-04-05 18:53:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"look over the forum.. randomly click a couple of threads and go see for yourself.
Surely the flippers will not keep you from using your mouse and all. Religion is all bunk.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
"
I was asking what specifically you were referring to. Yep, there's a lot of shit on this site, no doubt about it. That's why it would be helpful when asking questions like this
Is it a past owner him/herself who is spouting out this anon crap?
if you could narrow it down a bit.
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While this is mildly entertaining I don't really see the imporatnce of finding out who that was.
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On 2006-04-05 16:14:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"I am back now the penguin issue has resolved itself for the.. well I really can not say better.
I suppose I will just have to bite the proverbial bullet and ask this question which has been on my mind all night.
Now that the point has been conceded that it is possible that abuse has gone on out of sight and out of mind, what other back door shennanigans could have possibly occured?
Please lets not use back door in this case as a reference to some bizzare non straight courting ritual. A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.
--Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author
"
You seem to be having a discussion with yourself about a different topic than the one presented in the original post.
Your attempt at realizing that anything and everything, such as sexual misconduct, is possible was already stated. By stating that Maia wrote that Ray was told by female staff that the same female staff were 'breaking' the girl patients by using sexual misconduct. Got it? That you want to think that we have conceded to your misconception on this particular point is a misperception of who posted it first. Learn to read. The only frequency I can cop to about your short and useless posts is that you seem to be tired in your use of dry logic. So, let me make the first post I wrote short and logical for you.
Maia is clearly a good writer, she did herself a disservice by incorporating a liar like Richard Bradbury into her book; certainly she used him and he used her and its win/win, but it adds no credibility to her work by writing out his lies and bullshit.
Can it be proven that he B&E'd? No. Can it be proven that the sexual molestation of most of the girls in Straight by 'some' female staff members happened specifically while Ray was a staff member? No. I see your viewpoint, but its conjecture (inference from defective or presumptive evidence) you're using and it's hardly poetic nor does it make you sound any more dry than you are trying to be.
The correct viewpoint can be found and easier seen by simply focusing in on the details of what was written. And since you missed it first, and probably missed it again where I just halfquoted Maia about two paragraphs up - I'll write it again.
...Maia Szalavitz writes that Richard Bradbury remembers hearing 'some' (two or more?) female staff stating (saying) that they used sexual molesting as a means to 'break' several (three or more? apiece?) female patients...
So focus in on that for a second. Maybe you'll go to the bookstore and see what I'm saying. Maia has no less honed her craft like she has done in prior works. She takes alot of hard research and makes clear use out of it, and more to the point she is taking a hard situation and turning an obviously disturbed person's ramblings and delusions into something useful and whoever edited her material is a flawless editor no joke. I don't condone Ray's bullshit, but Maia knows exactly what I'm talking about by using specific details to focus in and weave a really good report/history! It doesn't matter that Richard happened to be around with Wes when Maia found out about boot camps and eventually fell upon thestraights.com. Could have been anyone, and anyone would have probably lied to fuck over the original owners of Straight. I haven't read any further but I'm sure Melvin Sembler is mentioned again and again in here in this book. But its not just that Ray is a fucking panzy liar, its the way he does it. He's not smooth about it, he makes no defense but instead hides like a fucking panzy when he's dead busted in lies. And so Maia has immortalized the little dickbag as such and I feel bad for Maia beyond her perfected and excellent writing on the history of boot camps.
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On 2006-04-05 19:10:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =10#180514 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=350&forum=7&start=10#180514)
Any comments on the posting with the big bold print?
Program Penguin, owner, or again slightly perverse troll?
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was
made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to
govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be
masters.
--Daniel Webster
"
no comment other than they seem to have you pegged, especially the part about your rising from the pile of your family there, Mikey.
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Shut up, Mel.
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This thread is turning into a... river of shit. :em:
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Would you rather shit a river?
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to everyone.....three springs waygookin straight did 100's if not thousands of horrible things to ppl in there.there are at least 40+ suisides,not to metion suiside attempts...geez there have to be 100"s of those....i was one of them.i saw shit in there,and i was there for almost all but maybe a few months of miller newton's riegn at straight.
what other stuff?does it really matter? you weren't even in straight.just believe me that this was no "country club"....oh,it was in st.pete florida,but we hardly got to see any of it.....the physical abuse was bad enough,but the MENTAL ABUSE? it was way worse.....way worse than you or anyone can imagine that wasn't in there.we were mostly made up of kids....KIDS !!! 12- 17...
it was supposed to be a "6 month" program,but i nor anyone else saw anyone get out in 6 months!
oh,there were a few that managed 7 - 12 months,but they were a rarity and almost all of them became staff members! i was in there for 28 1/2 months!that was an average to above average stay in straight.the average being around 15-20 months! hardly a 6 month treatment program they told you when you were tricked in there!it wasn't till you sat down that you realised that "signing yourself out after 14 days" was bullshit,the supposed "6 months" was too.....then you went home with complete strangers and heard how long everyone you went home with had been there.after a while the abuse and mental torture became normal
to you! normal? yes,normal.sexual abuse? yes i believe there were cases of it....did i see any of it? no....but there was a time when another newcomer tried to make a pass at me.....i clocked him in the adams apple and went back to sleep.did i report it?no....i just wanted to finish my stay there and go on with my life.this is the first time i ever mentioned this to ppl......do i believe richard's story? i don't know.i don't know him,but i have to admit,he did tell the whole fucking world about it.there could be some truth to it.....then again it could be sensationalism too.....
-
On 2006-04-05 19:39:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"You still miss the point. No where in this thread have I mentioned Maia's book. I merely have raised the specter of possiblities of various forms of abuse. Should I ever endevour to want to debate the material from the book I will go buy it, and read it.
Until the day where I sit down and read the book from cover to cover absolutely everything out of it is completely nonapplicable to what I have been asking.Nice job on the post though, perhaps when I take the time to read her book I will then take the time to consider the full magnitude of your position.
Still do you care to add to the spirit of the question?
Did you witness any foul play or back door shennanigans whilst trapped in the dreadful claws of the beast named Straight?Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
-- Emo Phillips
"
I was in full agreement that abuse is possible in any 'realm' or 'spirit'. This is a question that was asked in the original post. Maia recognizes abuse as a whole with boot camps, of that her book is certain. She does a great job talking about boot camp abuse. And so you are not partaking in the spirit of the original post.
-
On 2006-04-05 19:10:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =10#180514 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=350&forum=7&start=10#180514)
Any comments on the posting with the big bold print?
Program Penguin, owner, or again slightly perverse troll?
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was
made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.
There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to
govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be
masters.
--Daniel Webster
"
What I think is that you're just being a puss troll. So if you got some shit you'd like to meet in person about and work out your frustrations, I'd let my family fight your broken and busted out family of losers and devil worshippers anyday. Name the time and place and pay for my ticket and we can arrange it. You want to keep instigating me with your bullshit? Your next words, Waygookin, will be more of "you missed the spirit of the conversation, penguins" or lame insults or that meeting is not worth your time.
-
On 2006-04-06 00:51:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Of course I will not entertain the notion of meeting you in person. One would hardly find it very productive to roll about in the dirt like a couple of school yard rag a muffins. Seriously though if it makes you feel any better the slight regarding my new term for treatment zombies as penguins was quite stinging.
Does anyone have any clue as to why chaps who clearly have a firm grasp of the English language fumble after a few pass completions and resort to asking you to fight in public?
Me thinks it may be some sort of inferiority complex regarding the ability to appropriately communicate complex terms. This definite lack would take into consideration to the cave man like regression to the beating and gruntings upon the posters chest.
Me.... Squawky the Caveman Penguin!!
Me ....beat your ass with volume a through z of the encloypedia britanica.
Me.... eat all your mackrel!!
Dear lord my good man shake loose of the bounds of your own self imposed hell! Don't allow yourself to be lulled into a line of crapping, squawking penguins like the rest of those poor sad blighters.
Onto the poster above Squawky the Caveman penguin if you notice I have never once participated in the original spirt of the thread. I have not read Maia's book so I am in no position to comment up on. Though it does seem to me in essence we are both coming from roughly the same set of premises.
1) Abuse of sexual or physical nature is wrong in a program.
2) Abuse more than likely happened in Straight program.
I am not looking to collect money or punish anyone for their involvement with straight. I'm looking to change this mutherfucking world.
Reagan Youth
"
See, I told you that's what you'd say. You're just trolling and posing to be me, repeating shit I already said. That's cool.
-
On 2006-04-05 19:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
Maia is clearly a good writer, she did herself a disservice by incorporating a liar like Richard Bradbury into her book; certainly she used him and he used her and its win/win, but it adds no credibility to her work by writing out his lies and bullshit.
What lies?
Can it be proven that he B&E'd?
Yeah, I think it can. When was that, around '93?
Can it be proven that the sexual molestation of most of the girls in Straight by 'some' female staff members happened specifically while Ray was a staff member?
I was just out when Richard was staff. Yes, this happened. I'm sure you won't believe me, but that's your call. The staff member living at my house (even after I had run) told me about it and she was personally involved in it.
-
Point of clarification. I don't know for sure if this was done *to break them*. I always thought it was just because they were lonely and horny.
-
Occam's razor would most likely apply in this particular case.
Most likely, but not necessarily. If we examine the "in the mind of a bad girl" thread on this forum, we will see that the supposition of horniness would not always be a stretch.... whatever.
-
I'll bet that you haven't read the thread that I bumped for you, have you?
-
Please do, I'm sure you will find it somewhat enlightening. Take it easy, everything will be ok... :grin:
-
Cheers! ::cheers::
What time is it there? You're making me want to start drinking and it's only 11AM here..
-
On 2006-04-06 05:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Point of clarification. I don't know for sure if this was done *to break them*. I always thought it was just because they were lonely and horny."
Let's really turn a conversation about quoted material from Maia's new book into a completely different conversation. Fuck razors and 'what ifs'. Book states that Ray was told by female staffs that they were specifically molesting female patients in order to break them. I am telling you that's what it fucking says, what do I have to gain by stating it falsely: NOthing Maia is a good fucking writer even if she's plagued by a dickmuncher like Raybury. And yeah, I am a fuckin control freak ... I live here all the time and I run my world you live in.
-
On 2006-04-05 18:04:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"what positive contributions to the social fabric did this "straight" program provide?"
None.
-
On 2006-04-05 18:28:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"How many run aways did you witness during you time in the loving bosom of the beast called straight?"
I lost count of how many kids copped out or disappeared. Seems like kids vanished without explaination many times a week. I know one person I was in hell with that copped out nine times. There were also countless unsuccessful runaway attempts. Occassionally, kids were forcibly returned from copping out. But if a kid merely tried or successfully got away, those kids always endured severe verbal abuse, humiliation, etc. from staff and the group as soon as they were caught.
-
On 2006-04-05 19:39:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
Did you witness any foul play or back door shennanigans whilst trapped in the dreadful claws of the beast named Straight?
Plenty! I'd be glad to fill you in if/when you get tired of baiting and fuckin' around and actually just want to discuss this seriously. Not saying everyone else has to get civil in order for me to talk to you. Just that you have show me sincere interest by ignoring the bullshit and paying due attention to what the rest of us are saying.
And even then, that's contingent on other demands on my time; something out of your or my control. But here's to hoping.We must create an atmosphere where the crooked cop fears the honest cop, and not the other way around.
Frank Serpico
-
Ok, but I haven't got much time lately. I'm only watching a few topics.
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.
--Thomas Paine, American revolutionary
-
On 2006-04-06 22:17:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"At least enlighten me as to who this Raybury bloke is!
NO holding out!
::soapbox:: ::soapbox:: ::soapbox:: ::soapbox::
Maia's book carries just about the best telling of who Rich is and how he plays into this as ever I've seen or heard. No kidding, not just that I get a commission if you buy it through the link at the top of the page, but. He is a character, no doubt. Real piece o'work. All by himself, he wouldn't be very credible at all. Neither would I, for that matter. No credentials, only marginally successful at life. But nothing I can point to and say "see? I'm a success!"
But we're not all by ourselves. There are plenty of other wittnesses. If you think about why you hate me, you might find that it's not me.
--Antigen
-
I ran three times. I don't even want to guess how many others did. It was a typical, day in the life thing (maybe once a week? once a month?) for someone to get caught and brought back. I never thought to count them. The ones who didn't get brought back, who the hell knows? We had no contact w/ the outside, so if you noticed someone missing, you just didn't know what happened. That helped to reenforce the lie that no one ever escapes, they all get caught.
Errors, like straws, upon the surface flow;
He who would search for perls must dive below.
Prolougue (from preface to
the Panther Book)
John Dryden, All for Love, Prolougue
-
Oh, and btw, do you understand that the staff were all in their teens and 20's? In Straight, all of the front line staff were program grads, mostly recent ones. And most of the executives were parents w/ kids in the program.
Factor that into your calculations.
The wretchedness of religion is at once an expression and a protest against real wretchedness. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of unspiritual conditions. It is the opium of the people.
--Karl Marx, German economist and political philosopher
-
Here, you can crib:
Straight residents being sexually abused.
cause...
1) power control issue..
2) Horny sadistic wierdo...
...becomes...
((power control issue augmented by deep seated effects of sustained fairly recent trauma coupled)+
(14 - 22 year old Horny sadistic wierdos having been sexually suppressed and humiliated themselves, now tasked w/ inflicting this form of "therapy" on other kids while forming trauma a bond w/ individual group members as well as Group as family/world over a sustained period.))
*
(the mind bending effect of all parties having to effectively pretend convincingly that they like it better than smokin' a bowl, better than actual sex and, by far and away, better than anything that ever went before in their short lives)
=
The makings for some unpleasantly kinky shit.
[ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-04-07 04:52 ]
-
Which all would equal that it does not really mattter if Raybury ran around the streets at night wearing a tutu singing, "Spooze on my face you little mocking bird of love!"
The math works out pretty well in favor that no matter the source cited in Maia's book the abuse did occur, and more than likely for the reason of beating down a resident into a greater state of compliance.
Would the anon care to comment at this time please?
-
dat was me who postd up dere...
TSW
-
On 2006-04-07 05:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
The math works out pretty well in favor that no matter the source cited in Maia's book the abuse did occur, and more than likely for the reason of beating down a resident into a greater state of compliance.
Actually, no, I wouldn't buy that as the stronger motive. I'm more inclined to think that they were just indulging their own kinky desiers, using the Program (as always) to excuse whatever sadistic shit they may have wanted to do.
Laws are like spider webs. If some poor weak creature comes up against them - it is caught. But the bigger one can break through and get away.
-- Solon; Greek philosopher - c.630-c.555 BC
-
You keep that up and you'll wind up just like me. :em:
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy
-
On 2006-04-07 05:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Which all would equal that it does not really mattter if Raybury ran around the streets at night wearing a tutu singing, "Spooze on my face you little mocking bird of love!"
The math works out pretty well in favor that no matter the source cited in Maia's book the abuse did occur, and more than likely for the reason of beating down a resident into a greater state of compliance.
Would the anon care to comment at this time please?"
Sure.
No comment.
-
Well, I don't know. I've never tried it before. Does it hurt much? :scared:
There go the people. I must follow them for I am their leader.
--Alexandre Ledru-Rollin
-
Oh the pain! The Paaaaain! Hmm... that sort of feels good! Hey, have you been working out at that fittness club that SIBS just bought?
Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446
-
Can you stop spamming up my thread about Maia please? I am really sick here.
Okay, summating what I said before here:
Maia is a good writer.
-
On 2006-04-09 09:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Can you stop spamming up my thread about Maia please? I am really sick here.
Okay, summating what I said before here:
Maia is a good writer."
Sorry, you're right, of course. But, well hell, how can you not play w/ TSW when he's in a playful mood?
Anyway, to show my contrition for my part in this, may I bring to your attention some more of Maia's great writing and speaking engagements. I think she's probably the most credible, well respected and effective voice on this issue in the world today. I'm not being facetious, I'm really that impressed!
Upcoming Events
Cato Institute
BOOK FORUM
Thursday, April 20, 2006
12:00 PM (Luncheon to Follow)
Featuring the author Maia Szalavitz, Senior Fellow, Stats.org; and with comments by Evan Wright Contributing Editor, Rolling Stone Author, Generation Kill: Devil Dogs, Iceman, Captain America, and the New Face of American War. The Cato Institute
1000 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20001
Watch the Event Live in RealVideo
Listen to the Event in RealAudio (Audio Only)
As the War on Drugs continues to fill America's prisons with nonviolent offenders, many cities and states are looking at mandatory treatment as an alternative to incarceration. Although treatment is generally preferable to prison, not all methods of treating drug addiction are the same. Some methods, particularly the "tough love" programs aimed at teens and adolescents, have documented records of mental abuse, physical abuse, and even death.
http://helpatanycost.com/events.php (http://helpatanycost.com/events.php)
Of Chimps and Children
This morning on the "Today" show, I saw a lengthy segment on "retirement programs" for Hollywood chimps. While I strongly favor greater protections for primates used in research and for other human purposes, it got me wondering. Why doesn't America's...
comments (6)
03.25.2006 at 12:14pm
Good News: FL Boot Camps May Get the Boot
Finally, some good news out of Florida--maybe. The St. Petersburg Times reports in a front-page story that the state's Criminal Justice Appropriations Committee --importantly, with the support of the Governor and the sheriffs who run the boot camps--has recommended...
comments (6)
03.22.2006 at 04:04pm
Drug Testing and Deception
Slate has a story this week about the failure of school drug testing. It reports that the largest studies of the issue do not support randomly testing students or testing those in extracurricular activities as a way of reducing...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maia-szalavitz/ (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/maia-szalavitz/)
The public schools are...designed around the assumption that all of the participants are irresponsible and incompetent...The result is the creation of an organization which is incapable of change. Every member of the organization is concerned with keeping his superior happy.
--Christopher Jencks, Harvard
-
On 2006-04-08 20:35:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Your autographed lawyer website thingie on the fornits home page is a classic example of just the sort of thing that makes me spit coke out my nose and onto the computer screen from laughing so hard.
Egads!
I am still chuckling everytime I think about it.
:lol: :lol: I am not a great believer in school. School is primarily an institution for the perpetuation of adolescence...The thought that school educates is not one I have accepted yet...Thank God I am not young. I could not survive this horror.
--Peter F. Drucker
"
Chilsung Soda is better than Coke,and it passes through your nose much smoother.
-
or try using a nostril lubricant.
-
I found the most interesting question posed by Ms. Salavitz's treatise to be "why isn't Miller Newton in jail?"
-
Fuck you, asshole. :flame:
-
On 2006-04-12 08:17:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"ChilsingDon't hate the media. Become the media
--Jello Biafra
"
OK,Chilsung ,or what ever.
You probably cant afford one,now that the WON is up.
Have you resorted to sleeping in sauna yet?
I prefer cheap Yeoinsuk,but you will freeze your ass of in the winter!
Ever lie with the shivering sweats and freezing to death on the Yeoinsuk "ondol" with raw oyster food poisoning,and that wretched Korean karaokee blasting through the window?
And dont forget the loud mouthed Russian prostitutes jabbering away outside your door!
-
On 2006-04-12 08:36:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"You a kiddie fiddler?
You the kind of man that would bone a man in the ass then not give him the courtesy of a good rinse around?
You get your jollies off molesting sheep?
Why oh why do they hate you?...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana
is its effect on the degenerate races.
Harry Anslinger
"
Your ideas intrigue me. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
-
On 2006-04-12 08:17:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"and who the hell is Miller Newton?
Google Miller Newton
God grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Perl Services
"
How aproposIt's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word! --
--Andrew Jackson
-
Sorry, sorry, back to your mad clowning.
"When did I realize it? Well, one day I was praying and suddenly realized I was talking to myself."
--God
-
How was clown college?
-
So your clowning career got put on ice then.. sorry to hear that.
-
One day, Grasshopper, if you work your program, you may even be a great clown like Bingo!
-
What a weird video... really captures the craziness of attack LGAT confrontation... especially when youre young. Good find!
-
At this rate you'll have your nose back in no time. :tup:
-
Just try to keep a stiff upper lip and keep those fukkin' flippers flappin'... :rofl:
-
Fap, fap, fap. :lol:
-
man, y'all have fukkt up my thread here. Shit.
-
On 2006-04-13 18:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"man, y'all have fukkt up my thread here. Shit."
Shhhhhh, we're all killing kittens. :grin:
-
On 2006-04-13 10:09:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Only if they don't catch on that I am fronting!!!
:scared: If triangles had a God, He'd have three sides.
--Old Yiddish proverb
"
Could you front me a half kilo...of KimChi?
-
umm, woah. Sorry to dissapoint. I was only half serious about spamming up the post for Maia Szalavitz book. I am NOT BINGO! Did you get your clown career going again yet or what? we want to know.
-
On 2006-04-14 16:56:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"No sorry I am still in the wayward program for clowns who abuse their rubber noses. If Christ were here now there is one thing he would not be -- a Christian.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist
"
And WHAYS WITH all that make-up these Korean women wear!
Talk about CLOWNS!
-
On 2006-04-13 03:45:00, Eudora wrote:
"One day, Grasshopper, if you work your program, you may even be a great clown like Bingo!
Because I love it so much!!!
-
That IS pretty good.... :scared: :grin:
-
..that was me...
-
Look at these fucking review from Goddamn Ed. Cons.!!!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159448 ... e&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594489106/103-7756208-8045441?v=glance&n=283155)
From a Mother of a child who was in a program & an Ed Consultant, April 10, 2006
Reviewer: Dore Frances "defrances" (Bend, Oregon) - See all my reviews
This book was a long read for me personally. It was brutal.
In my opinion, unless you are the parent of a teen who needs intervention and yuo have tried all local resources with no results, unless you have had to sit down with yourself and make that gut-wrenching decision that leaves you feeling like the bottom of the world has just dropped away, unless you have personally visited programs and schools and cried each visit because you see someone there just like your child, unless you spoke to the staff and students, and spent time doing complete background research yourself, unless you have placed your child in the hands of others and had to trust that you were leaving your child in the very best place for them at that time, unless you went through the process with your child as an involved parent and looked at your own faults, unless you celebrated with your child all their accomplishments and heard them say "Thank you for saving my life", even 5 years after they graduated, unless you spend time in this industry in one way or another, unless the very best for the child is always your first concern and priority, you really cannot, in my opinion, make an honest opinion or evaluation about this book.
In my ten years of experience as an educational consultant and child right's advocate, and twenty years as a mother, most programs and schools, adolescent escort services, therapists, and educational consultants are ethical and treat children with dignity. As in any business, and as it is in life, people are human, and will make choices and mistakes that are not always in the best interest of those they serve. That is sad, unfortunate and a fact of human behavior and life.
In the news we only hear about the boot camps that are committing horrendous mistreatment of adolescents and teens. We very rarely hear about the success stories. Any person or program that attempts to steal a soul and harm a child needs to be out of business today.
No matter how "bad" a child may behave or what choices they make to get themselves into trouble, it is never necessary to subject them to brutality of any kind or steal their worth as a human being. This book seems to bring up some very old information and not enough new information.
Again, unless you step into the shoes yourself, anyone can write anything at anytime and make it appear the way in which they feel will "sell" more books to already fragile family's in need of help.
I did not see any "realistic" alternatives to helping these families with their children. Is that the next book?
-
On 2006-04-23 19:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Look at these fucking review from Goddamn Ed. Cons.!!!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159448 ... e&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594489106/103-7756208-8045441?v=glance&n=283155)
Wow there's a lot of stuff posted on there...