Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Ridge Creek School / Hidden Lake Academy => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 04, 2006, 04:21:00 PM
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the more read , the sicker you get
" In Milonas, a class consisting of students at the
Provo Canyon School for Boys brought section 1983
claims against the school and members of its staff, al-
leging that inhumane treatment at the school violated the
Constitution. The Provo Canyon School, as described in
the Tenth Circuit opinion, was an unusual facility. A pri-
vate facility for boys with severe physical, psychological,
and emotional problems, the school was described in the
District Court opinion, which the Tenth Circuit quoted,
as " 'not a school in the traditional, ordinary, classroom
sense.' " 691 F.2d at 935. Although the school did of-
fer classes, the District Court observed, the school was
" 'also a correctional and detention facility.' " While stu-
dents were generally admitted at the insistence of one or
both of their parents, others were "received at the school
directly from juvenile courts and probation officers from
across the nation." Id. at 936. Conditions at the school
were unusually harsh and restrictive. [**19] Id. The
District Court wrote:
'Students are restricted to the grounds.
Students are confined. Some students are
locked in and locked up with varying de-
grees of personal liberty restored as each
progresses through the institutional program.
If a student leaves without permission, he
is hunted down, taken into custody and re-
turned. . . .
Regardless of origin, condition or motiva-
tion, once arrived, each person during the
beginning phases of the school program was
locked in, isolated from the outside world,
and whether anti--social, crippled or learn-
ing disabled, was subject to mandated phys-
ical standing day after day after day to pro-
mote "right thinking" and "social confor-
mity." Mail was censored. Visitors were dis-
couraged. Disparaging remarks concerning
the institution were prohibited and punished.
To "graduate" from confinement to a more
liberated phase, one had to "pass" a lie detec-
tor test relating to "attitude," "truthfulness"
and "future conduct." Some failed to pass
and remained in confinement for extended
periods of time.'"
Sure sounds like HLA
"The Tenth Circuit concluded that the state "had so
insinuated itself with the Provo Canyon School as to be
[**20] considered a joint participant in the of fending
actions." Id. at 940. The Court relied on the involun-
tary commitment of some students, the school's detailed
contracts with the school districts, the school's receipt of
substantial state funding, and extensive state regulation.
See id. Recognizing that the New Perspectives School in
Rendell--Baker was "indeed quite similar" to the Provo
Canyon [*168] School, the Tenth Circuit attempted
to distinguish the cases by noting that the plaintiffs in
Rendell--Baker were employees of the school, whereas
the plaintiffs in Milonas were students, "some of whom
have been involuntarily placed in the school by state offi-
cials who were aware of, and approved of, certain of the
practices which the district court . . . enjoined." Id. at 940."
these "schools" are disgusting
I know it is not "news" here @ Fornits, but it is amazing how alike all these "schools" are.
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A lot of similarities except that HLA claims to be a 'Private Boarding School", not a "correctional and detention facility". They also claim not to take court ordered kids or those with "severe physical, psychological, and emotional problems"
They recognized that some kids were placed by their parents, not adjudicated, so why would the ruling re: censorship of mail only apply to adjudicated youth?
"While students were generally admitted at the insistence of one or both of their parents, others were "received at the school directly from juvenile courts and probation officers from across the nation." Id. at 936. Conditions at the school were unusually harsh and restrictive. [**19] Id."
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Are minors placed by parents 'enrolled' with the parents permission given to school engaging in searches, etc.? Schools ask for carte blanche
I think parnets may be misled into signing over certain of their (kid's) rights - what do you think?
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Parent's can't sign over a kids constitutional protection. Milonas v Williams offers signals protection for kids as a result of state action. That also means kids placed by school districts. It also recognizes that children have "substantial liberty interests". Not a lawyer but my reading is that its ruling protects kids from censorship of mail to guardian.
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Absolutely NO permission was given for HLA to strip search our children, PERIOD! We were not informed in any letters what-so-ever that this would be done priorto or during enrollment. We found out during the Second parent workshop,PERIOD!
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Milonas does offer protection as a result of state or district action. A parent or guardian is not considered "the State". The state or a district, or any governmental entity is.
However, My reasoning on parents signing over 'enrolling' kids is based on the fact that you absolutly can sign away your own constitutional rights, as long as you are not tricked into it. That is what you do when consenting to having your car or house search, for instance. I reckon kids rights can be signed away by parent or guardian as the guardian can be held responsible for the child's transgressions, I would think that much constitutional protection for the child reverts to the custodian, as the child would not know if they were being tricked. A parent can consent to their child being searched, I am quite sure.
I get Juni's point, too. But, in their 'enrollment' papers, you signed over *some* control of your child, for instance, that they could prevent the child from telephoning or otherwise directly contacting you for some time. Was there **any** wording in that 'contract' that could have been used to trick you, you would have an additional legal avenue to pursue these criminals if there was. They are clearly sneaky bastards, and will undoubtedly use any trick they can to excuse their behavior. These people will never admit any errors, sins, or whatever. They are evil. The ones with any morals and ethics are leaving. The ones staying are into money.
Strip searching is particularly egregious, and much has been pursued in the legal world over it, even the right of jailers to strip search convicted criminals. Much safety must be in place, even there. I doubt HLA gave a damn how that was done either. They use Big dudes to step on little girls, for instance. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the same for strip searches.
Trust me, I hate these people as much as you do, these schools should be closed down nation-(and world, another of their tricks is offshoring)- wide. It means plenty to me personally.
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I wish I had a copy of the contract so I could respond. Unfortunately, my ex enrolled our son without my knowledge or consent. I was never told or otherwise inform as to what 'rights' my ex was signing over.
It took no time at all to realize that they intended to completely ignore my and my son's rights. My only recourse was to take the matter to family court. Based on false testimony provided by my ex and Merideth Burns the judge ruled that my son would remain in their warehouse.
I was also never provided with a copy of my son's records. Greg Lindsey told me he wouldn't release those documents until I revealed what I had found in my research. To this day I haven't one record.
I did receive a copy of the Parent Manual, for what good it was worth. My son was sent to wilderness in violation of their stated policy. When I complained, they simply changed the policy.
I feel certain my ex, and many other parents just like him, have yet to read the contract or the parent manual.
Perhaps someone else has a copy of the contract they could scan and post, which could make for some interesting and lively discussion.
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whoa.........
I'm so sorry for you and your child , Deborah- that is an awful tale. Can just one parent do that in spite of the other parent, or does it revolve around who has custody? I'm sure it is different from state to state, and I doubt Texas is real friendly about helping you.
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On 2006-04-15 23:24:00, Deborah wrote:
"
I wish I had a copy of the contract so I could respond. Unfortunately, my ex enrolled our son without my knowledge or consent. I was never told or otherwise inform as to what 'rights' my ex was signing over.
Perhaps someone else has a copy of the contract they could scan and post, which could make for some interesting and lively discussion."
Yes, that is an excellent idea. Anyone got one?
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On 2006-04-16 01:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"whoa.........
I'm so sorry for you and your child , Deborah- that is an awful tale. Can just one parent do that in spite of the other parent, or does it revolve around who has custody? I'm sure it is different from state to state, and I doubt Texas is real friendly about helping you."
I've been posting here for five years. There have been a number of parents who found themselves in the same situation with other programs, wilderness and residential. Accomplishing anything in family court these days is a lengthy process. One has rights only to the extent they can afford to litigate.
I wanted an injunction that would remove my son from their unlicensed wilderness program and bring him back home until it could be determined if such an austere placement was in his best interest. What I found myself involved in was a legal nightmare that potentially could have taken 2-3 years with psych evals for everyone (which could be contested), guardian ad litem for son (further complicating the matter-particularly if s/he happened to agree that an RTC was appropriate), mediations (in which some uncredentialed good ol boy acted as 'judge' and negotiated trade offs of rights), and tens of thousands of dollars of expense. By the time a decision was ever arrived at, my son would have long completed his 'sentence'. Programs are aware of this and retain the child until they are forced to release them.
The entire fiasco could have been avoided if they had acted with a shread of decency and integrity by refusing to keep my son incarcerated against my wishes. Instead, they colluded with his father in violating my rights and selfishly took two years from us. Both providing perjured testimony to that end.
Another issue that should be addressed industry/nation wide. Enrollment of a child should require both biological parents approval, when both have custody rights. It's too complicated and expense to reverse a private placement.
This was not the first time he had violoted my rights, but the first time I had to deal with the mess long distance.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =195#98397 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8631&forum=41&start=195#98397)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#16581 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2704&forum=9&start=0#16581)
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They get around the strip searching because the courts recognize the need for "institutional control" is greater than your child's need for privacy. Not a lawyer but thats the way I read the constitutional issue.
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things like "institutional control" trumping one's rights, and the problems cited by Deborah above, are examples of why we can never stop fighting to save our constitutional rights, in a nation where those rights are fast disappearing.
We can never rest on the important things.
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On 2006-04-16 08:27:00, Deborah wrote:
"Another issue that should be addressed industry/nation wide. Enrollment of a child should require both biological parents approval, when both have custody rights. It's too complicated and expense to reverse a private placement."
Absolutely! Absolutely!
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-04-16 13:45 ]
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the older I get, the more I believe the old sayings about evil and money. It is outrageous the way your husband could use money and distance to make your position untenable. I do believe judgement will come for greed, societally if no other way. We are currently in the worst greed cycle in US history.
Maybe we should go back to the barter system. These schools would be closed within months - what would people want to trade to EdCons and HLA and similar in exchange for their 'services'? I'd recommend trash.
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Deborah--Why was your ex-husband given custody of your son? I'm sure that you are aware that, in most cases of this sort in this country, primary custody is granted to the mother, unless she is grossly incompetent, neglectful, or abusive.
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this isnt deborah, but you're a fucking idiot. i dont know deborah's position or anything about her, but i do know your statement is absolutely false. quit acting like a lawer, cuz you aint one. i dont know why people insist on posting pro-hla bull on a board that is almost solely dedicated to info about getting the place shut down, on an obviously anti-institution website. yes, freedom of speech exists, but your efforts are futile becouse everyone here can see right through you. we just get irritated. i kinda feel like im pumping insecticide into a mosquito nest but still gettin stung.
a few case scenarios:
- what if she had a major physical disability? this would severly limit her ability to take care of kids.
- got married straight out of highschool to a well educated man?
- was not abusive, but had abusive family members?
- had a career incompatable with chilcare? a farmer father would be preferable over a soldier mother
Function junction, whats your dysfunction?
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Deborah--Why was your ex-husband given custody of your son? I'm sure that you are aware that, in most cases of this sort in this country, primary custody is granted to the mother, unless she is grossly incompetent, neglectful, or abusive.
Who's feeding you inaccurate information? The same egotistical, greedy, bastard that would keep a child against a parent's wishes, have one of his lackeys provide perjured testimony in order to keep the kid (money) there. You sure you want to be his patsy?
Ask him if it was worth $110,000 in the long run. :lol:
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I guess I missed this thread, and felt the need to post, sorry it was a little late. The same thing happened to my mother. She had sole custody of me for 15 years before I got sent to HLA. My dad had never consitently been in my life, and only showed up every few months to use me to dick with my mother in court (20 years after their divorce, they are still in court to this day). My father got the money (LOTS OF MONEY), and my mother got the kids.
At HLA, they obviously found out who the financial backer of this escapade was (my father), and worked as hard as they could to have him get custody through a nasty court process. The had to keep the cash cow in line, and did it by even refusing to speak to my mother anymore when it came to updates about me. (That once weekly phone call their supposed to get? They just STOPPED it). She didn't have any money, so all the control went to my father, even though HE'S NEVER BEEN A FATHER.
It does happen, and I'm living proof. The ONLY reason I had to go to HLA in the first place after my two OTHER programs was because the courts didn't feel it safe to release me to EITHER parents custody because of the litigation process going on. HLA preyed on that, and we're still paying for the consequences today.
But hey, they got paid, right?
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A story all to common there. What a judge says, custody rights, or even whats best for the child never matters. Only that they get paid.
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i wont reveal names...but there was this kid in PG51
he liked to pace around the lodge and his name rhymed with obiwan kenobe.
i'm sure everyone knows who i'm talking about
if the lawyers need a good HLA /custody story, his story is pretty interesting.
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oh yeah and the whole gettin paid thing....
PG51 is a great exaple...along with all the postgrads.
51 had to stay 29(?) months i think, just to graduate. for arbitrary reasons they got to keep a group of kids for almost an extra year. a few in that group actually graduated high school, but were still at hla taking correspondence courses with colleges becouse HLA wouldnt release their transcripts unless they completed the program.
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Yeah, I remember all that. The same thing happen to... pg 56 I believe? Their program was like 28 or 29 months. Just because of when they came in.
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nope not 56...they...(we) actually had the record shortest program, just under 18 months. i think it was 59 that got the shaft too...really not sure though.
what happened is that originally they were supposed to graduate in december, but when HLA cancelled that grad it extended their stay by nearly a year. what i think is funny, which proves HLA is full of shit, is that they re-instituted december grad as soon as 51 left. i bet there's a long running pattern there.
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What was the reason given for doing that?
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they said that kids were having trouble getting into other schools mid-year, in december. so they just kept the may, june, and august grads. it's rediculous, becouse what about the kids over 18 who were supposed to be in college? or the kids that WERE able to get into schools. just becouse of one or two kids, who couldnt pick a boarding school out of a short list, they made whole peergroups stay and extra year.
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nope not 56...they...(we) actually had the record shortest program, just under 18 months. i think it was 59 that got the shaft too...really not sure though.
what happened is that originally they were supposed to graduate in december, but when HLA cancelled that grad it extended their stay by nearly a year. what i think is funny, which proves HLA is full of shit, is that they re-instituted december grad as soon as 51 left. i bet there's a long running pattern there.
Thats right. 59. It was my counselors other peer group. Sorry. Been a long time.
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"things like "institutional control" trumping one's rights, and the problems cited by Deborah above, are examples of why we can never stop fighting to save our constitutional rights, in a nation where those rights are fast disappearing. "
"We can never rest on the important things"
Funny, because you don't have rights of the constitution till you’re eighteen! The only rights you have are rights of humanity!
If dumbass kids wouldn't try to sneak drugs onto a school campus, which is a crime by law (felony), there would be no need for such things! Coincidently, I am sure that the parents of the student would love to be charged by the local law enforcement for such searches and I am also sure that the parents of these students would love to find out that there little darling kid was arrested by real law enforcement officials on felony charges because they did not watch there child and they brought "something" illegal onto a school campus. Then there would be no way the school could protect the students from the "real consequences" of their actions, god forbid that!!! Not to mention that it is these dumbasses that caused the searches to be necessary.
[/code]
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My goodness - someone is woefully ignorant of facts regarding HLA as well as the U.S. Constitution:
Under Common Law existing at the time of the adoption of the U.S. Constitution, "natural personhood" was considered to begin at natural birth and end with the cessation of the heartbeat.
Next time do a little research before you come onto this site - or grease your mouth with vaseline so your foot comes out easier.
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"My goodness - someone is woefully ignorant of facts regarding HLA as well as the U.S. Constitution:
Under Common Law existing at the time of the adoption of the U.S. Constitution, "natural personhood" was considered to begin at natural birth and end with the cessation of the heartbeat.
Next time do a little research before you come onto this site - or grease your mouth with vaseline so your foot comes out easier."
I know a great deal more about HLA then you will ever even imagine. Don't ask for my identiy, I choose to remain unknown and it will continue to stay that way!
Congratulations, you know the constitution! I'm very happy that you have the time to google up such things. I don't or choose not to whichever is the case! I appreciate your insitefullness though! However, pointing out my lack of knowledge of the constitution does not take away from the point I was trying to make. Get it! Got it, Good!
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guest 123's demeanor is really reminding me of ROB HYDE. anyone see it too? can we get an IP check?
strip searches are unnecessary. weather it be by a staff or police officer. the only time they are ok is if your going into a prison. HLA is not a prison. they are a school. as far as i remember...schools dont have strip searches. also, most schools get along ok with a small percentage of students doing drugs. it's a fact of academia. people have always done, and will always do drugs and alchohol and you cant do anything about it.
now think about this....what's the bigger danger? drugs or prison?
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"My goodness - someone is woefully ignorant of facts regarding HLA as well as the U.S. Constitution:
Under Common Law existing at the time of the adoption of the U.S. Constitution, "natural personhood" was considered to begin at natural birth and end with the cessation of the heartbeat.
Next time do a little research before you come onto this site - or grease your mouth with vaseline so your foot comes out easier."
I know a great deal more about HLA then you will ever even imagine. Don't ask for my identiy, I choose to remain unknown and it will continue to stay that way!
Congratulations, you know the constitution! I'm very happy that you have the time to google up such things. I don't or choose not to whichever is the case! I appreciate your insitefullness though! However, pointing out my lack of knowledge of the constitution does not take away from the point I was trying to make. Get it! Got it, Good!
No, you just choose to be one of the "dumbasses" you chastised in your previous post. Your statement: I don't or choose not to whichever is the case!
That's so typical HLA. Thanks for verifying what we already knew... you just choose to stick your head up your ass and not see the real world. You're pathetic.
PS - Did you take English and grammar classes at HLA?
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strip searches are unnecessary. weather it be by a staff or police officer. the only time they are ok is if your going into a prison. HLA is not a prison. they are a school. as far as i remember...schools dont have strip searches. also, most schools get along ok with a small percentage of students doing drugs. it's a fact of academia. people have always done, and will always do drugs and alchohol and you cant do anything about it.
now think about this....what's the bigger danger? drugs or prison
I don't know if I agree with what Guest123 has to say but I know what you just said is a load of crap. Strip searches as unplesant as they may be are necessary in certian situations. Remember that the next time you go into any sporting event or airport. Drugs or Prison? I love how you have these wonderful things to choose from! Drugs and Prison are both choices. If you choose one you must also accept the possiblity of the other! Most schools! Well what happens when you put all the bad apples together? Kind of changes the game a little don't you think? Your right, I can't do anything about it. I have an idea though, why don't you and all the other people after HLA do some real good, put all that effort into getting drugs out of schools and then we might not even be having this conversation. For the record though, I do feel that there needs to be some changes with TBS which I feel is the only positive aspect of this whole situation.
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i dont think you get the point.
drugs are not the problem. drugs are O.K, and even healthy if done responsibly in moderation. (with the exeption of meth, coke, and heroin, and most HLA kids arnt into that). dont even argue with this becouse i will bring down any counter argument with lists and lists and lists of published medical papers with have been proving for YEARS that certain illegal drugs are acctually benificial.
the problem is other people (authority) making drugs illegal, and therefore, a risk to do. if it wasnt for the illigality, drugs would be a very very very very very minor problem in this society.
yeah and when you get all the bad apples together yada yada... i really dont agree with that. after HLA, i attended an alternative "last-chance" school for the remainder of me senior year. i was one of 3 white kids there. alot of these kids spent time in juvie, had hardcore drug problems, were in gangs, were teen mothers, etc etc. these kids were in this alternative school becouse the school gave them a chance and they wanted to make the best of it. they WANTED to get an education, becouse they were not forced into it, just offered it when they were down on the outs. the drug policy was that what you do on your own time is your bussiness, but if you're in school high or have shit on you, and they catch you, you're out. and guess what? %100 of these kids smoked weed, and only a smal minority on other drugs. over the year no one was caught, there was no problems, nothing. everyone had good grades, the school ran like clockwork, and the kids actually got into college. think about it, kids that were probobly going to end up living on the streets before (they were not privilidged like HLA kids), who were alot worse off, get into better colleges and hold better jobs than the average hla grad. of the 9 other kids in my graduating class, 1 went to NYU, 1 to Hofstra, 1 to eckerd, 2 to skidmore, 3 to CUNY and 1 to SUNY, most on close to full scholarships. HLA doesnt even come close.
who's policy works better?
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i dont think you get the point.
drugs are not the problem. drugs are O.K, and even healthy if done responsibly in moderation. (with the exeption of meth, coke, and heroin, and most HLA kids arnt into that). dont even argue with this becouse i will bring down any counter argument with lists and lists and lists of published medical papers with have been proving for YEARS that certain illegal drugs are acctually benificial.
the problem is other people (authority) making drugs illegal, and therefore, a risk to do. if it wasnt for the illigality, drugs would be a very very very very very minor problem in this society.
yeah and when you get all the bad apples together yada yada... i really dont agree with that. after HLA, i attended an alternative "last-chance" school for the remainder of me senior year. i was one of 3 white kids there. alot of these kids spent time in juvie, had hardcore drug problems, were in gangs, were teen mothers, etc etc. these kids were in this alternative school becouse the school gave them a chance and they wanted to make the best of it. they WANTED to get an education, becouse they were not forced into it, just offered it when they were down on the outs. the drug policy was that what you do on your own time is your bussiness, but if you're in school high or have shit on you, and they catch you, you're out. and guess what? %100 of these kids smoked weed, and only a smal minority on other drugs. over the year no one was caught, there was no problems, nothing. everyone had good grades, the school ran like clockwork, and the kids actually got into college. think about it, kids that were probobly going to end up living on the streets before (they were not privilidged like HLA kids), who were alot worse off, get into better colleges and hold better jobs than the average hla grad. of the 9 other kids in my graduating class, 1 went to NYU, 1 to Hofstra, 1 to eckerd, 2 to skidmore, 3 to CUNY and 1 to SUNY, most on close to full scholarships. HLA doesnt even come close.
who's policy works better?
I do get the point. Moderation is the problem, and when someone cant control themselves because they have to have them, will do anything to get them, it opens doors to create problems for not just them cause they cant get high, it burdens their family and the people who care about them, society who has to pay for there jail time when and if they get into trouble and theft, robbery, ect... Alot of what you have said may be true for that Alternative school which is great but it is not a representation of the rest. Thats only one example. By the way, congrats to you for turning your life around. I agree that moderation for things such as Alcohol and weed may be ok, however I think that you are misleading on the other "hardcore" drugs. I also don't know of any Dr. nor have I ever heard of one who would publicly admit that drugs in general are benificial to you. Please name some benifits. Im not saying there are not doctors who have said drugs have benifits but you sure don't hear to much talk about it. I do agree with you on the legality of drugs issue. Its the old "if its illegal, its more fun". Make them legal and that takes the fun and thrill out of there use which would not stop them but put a drastic downswing on there use.
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well johns hopkins just did a study on psylocin (primary active ingredient in shrooms') last year, and proved definitively that it causes a "profoundly spiritual and life-changing experience" if taken under the right circumstances. personaly, i can keep and keep going on it's benifits. they helped me turn my life around more than hla ever even came close to. it's idiotic to take them "for fun", but when you take them with a specific goal in mind they can do wonders.
hundreds of papers were published in the 50's, 60's and 70's on the benifits of LSD in the treatment of alchoholism. bill wilson, founder of AA, was treated by LSD and swears by it.
MDMA has been used for years for couple's therapy along with some other applications in europe, and before it was criminalized in the 80's.
Ibogaine, (from the african iboga tree) has proved to be a miracle drug for addiction and PTSD treatment. there are clinics set up in canada and mexico. there are numerous reports of 25+ year heroin addicts coming in, and after one session loosing all physical AND mental desire to use any drug for months at a time.
Doctors have been talking about the benificial aspects of red wine for a long time now, no need to clarify.
a study just came out that claims that smoking ciggarets in conjuction with drinking coffee lowers your risk for parkinsons, and is also good symptomatic treatment for it.
no need to go into the theraputic aspects of weed, everyone knows about it since it's such a big political issue now. but i have to say 2 things about it: a study just came out, dont know the specifics but they say that something in marijuana actually prevents or slows lung cancer, and can potentially reverse tumor growth.
also about weed, i think it IS healthy for some people, like me. personally, i can be a real cranky person, i get stressed easy. weed helps center me, calm me down and focus me. it also helps me pay attention in class. it's like taking a 2hr vacation. and vacations ARE good for you.
I firmly belive hard drugs like opiates and amphetamines are pure shit, and cocaine is the devil incarnate. there is no such thing as "healthy" or "moderate" use of these drugs outside of medicine. but the point i was trying to make is that some people have the miraculous ability to manage doing these drugs without bringing themselves or others down. they are a minority. most people get addicted real fast.
now, treatment is definitely the answer to drug addiction. there is no other way save death in most cases. but, the problem is that HLA is in no way capable of dealing with addicts or treating them, nor is it a proper environment. one of the main issues is that HLA FORCES treatment on kids. one of AA's principal ideas is that you cant force someone to recover, they have to decide for themselves, and usually you need to hit rock bottom for that to happen. forcing someone into treatment only makes things worse. sometimes it works, but most of the time it doesnt.
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Every household should have a copy of Weil's "Chocolate to Morphine".
http://drweilsmarketplace.drugstore.com ... l_m_d_.htm (http://drweilsmarketplace.drugstore.com/qxp85087_333181_sespider/from_chocolate_to_morphine/andrew_weil_m_d_.htm)
Weil is open about his past use of illegal substances, claiming, "I think I've tried about every drug," in [his book] From Chocolate to Morphine. He is equally open with his views on ending the War on Drugs, citing the benefits of many banned plants. In fact, the opening paragraph of From Chocolate to Morphine reads: "Drugs are here to stay. History teaches that it is vain to hope that drugs will ever disappear and that any effort to eliminate them from society is doomed to failure."
Weil claims that humans have an innate need to alter their consciousness, and that there is no such thing as good or bad drugs, merely that some individuals have good or bad relationships with certain substances.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Weil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Weil)
Some examples he cites of human's innate need are children sucking their thumb, rocking, spinning until they fall, masturbating.