Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 20, 2006, 01:19:00 AM
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Come Back : A Mother and Daughter's Journey Through Hell and Back
By Claire and Mia Fontaine
(To Be Released April 4, 2006)
From Publishers Weekly
A nightmarish saga of a teenage runaway in L.A. ends triumphantly thanks to love and support from her screenwriter mom and stepdad. At 15, Mia gets involved in a dangerous drug and Wicca scene, stunning her successful, controlling mother, Claire, and stepfather, Paul. But the signs were in place earlier, after Mia's history of being sexually abused by her biological father, a violent, vindictive drug user whom Claire left with difficulty. Sent to Indiana to live with Claire's sister, Mia starts using cocaine heavily and even gets arrested. When the destructive behavior (including self-mutilation) accelerates, Claire and Paul send Mia to the unlikely Morava Academy, in the Czech Republic, a kind of Spartan military institution where 50 teens are rigorously monitored and reprogrammed. Meanwhile, back in L.A., the parents undergo an intensive group therapy called Discovery to learn to shed guilt for their daughter's behavior, and also forgive her. Oddly, Morava is soon shut down after allegations of staff abuse, but Mia goes through a brilliant turnaround at Spring Creek Lodge in Montana. Mia's desperate diary entries appear between Claire's lively, angry, sarcastic narrative, allowing mother and daughter to maintain a heart-wrenching, honest dialogue. (Mar.)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.
Don't you just just love these reviews ... "Oddly .. Morava is soon shut down after allegations of staff abuse ..."
So what does the parent do? Send her kid to another WWASPS program called Spring Creek Lodge?
Sheesh, that just makes no sense ... but then again, this does appear to be the rule rather than the exception following the closure of other WWASPS programs alleged to be abusive like Dundee Ranch and Casa By The Sea.
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sounds like a great book, finally some honesty is being published, everything else is just lies! Spring creek saves lives! And no, I don't work for the program!
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On 2006-03-20 08:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"sounds like a great book, finally some honesty is being published, everything else is just lies! Spring creek saves lives! And no, I don't work for the program!"
:rofl:
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Is this the same program where kids were put into isolation called THE HOBBIT?
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On 2006-03-20 09:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is this the same program where kids were put into isolation called THE HOBBIT?
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Yes
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On 2006-03-20 08:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"sounds like a great book, finally some honesty is being published, everything else is just lies! Spring creek saves lives! And no, I don't work for the program!"
When were you there? Maybe we were in the same family... or are you a program parent? I know about 500 kids who will argue with you about saving lives, and can only find about 12 who will agree with you. Why do you think that is? Did SCL save your life?
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yes scl did save my life i was there from 1999-2000
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On 2006-03-21 20:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"yes scl did save my life i was there from 1999-2000"
I was there in 2000-2001 my name is James I was in Excel family, what family were you in? How did SCL save your life exactly?
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On 2006-03-20 08:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"sounds like a great book, finally some honesty is being published, everything else is just lies! Spring creek saves lives! And no, I don't work for the program!"
:lol: :lol: I love how you add 'i dont work for the program' really makes a nice touch. Say hi to Cameron for me.
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Time to start writing reviews ... suggesting an alternative such as HELP AT ANY COST ... if parents want a BALANCED opinion of the troubled teen industry.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006079 ... e&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060792167/104-8475191-1531112?v=glance&n=283155)
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8,630 in Books
Amazon Book Sales Ranking
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On 2006-04-22 21:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Time to start writing reviews ... suggesting an alternative such as HELP AT ANY COST ... if parents want a BALANCED opinion of the troubled teen industry.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006079 ... e&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060792167/104-8475191-1531112?v=glance&n=283155)"
Balanced? Szalavitz has never been to a WWASPS school, and she is admittedly part of a group whose sole purpose is to shut down WWASPS. In the other book, this mom and her daughter relate the true story of their time at two of them. Have you even read it?
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On 2006-04-23 20:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
and she is admittedly part of a group whose sole purpose is to shut down WWASPS.
Excuse me? Where did you get that information?
In the other book, this mom and her daughter relate the true story of their time at two of them
Oh, I see. It's OK to take personal stories at face value as long as it supports your position? What about all the personal stories here and on the numerous other websites that allow free, uncensored opinions?
Have you read Maia's book? More importantly, did you read the footnotes and see the amount of research that went into it? Hell, even her detractors say the book is 'meticulously researched'. Oh, wait......that's right. You guys prefer 'surveys' over actual clinical research and studies. I forgot, silly me. :roll:
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Balanced? Szalavitz has never been to a WWASPS school, and she is admittedly part of a group whose sole purpose is to shut down WWASPS. In the other book, this mom and her daughter relate the true story of their time at two of them. Have you even read it?
What is ironic is the WWASPIES dismiss the abuse 'allegations' because they say until the abuse is proved (as if some kid can sneak a digital camera in his ass or something to document the abuse) that all the lawsuits, thousands of kids speaking out should all be ignored. But if ONE mother and ONE daughter write a book, well then, it MUST be true! :roll: Hypocrites the the nth degree.
Hey WWASPIES - where's the proof that your prison camps actually work? You've been open long enough, show us the data already!!
They are zealots, program fundamentalists. They believe only what they want to believe, as this post shows. They cannot distinguish reality and truth, they know only the program. Grow a brain wwaspies!
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Discovery is intense group therapy?? That is a joke... The poor girl is sexually abused by her father and the mothers answer is to ship her of to a wwasp program... I wonder how long the mother knew of the abuse.. some people ar just plain sick!
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So far, there has not been a single negative review about this book published on Amazon.
Most likely because those who have a different opinion about the WWASPS programs wouldn't waste their money on this book.
:eek:
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Quick Question:
WTF is "intensive" or "intense" therapy. I could understand a "intense" scrubdown if you got exposed to radiactive dust and a bunch of men in space suits drag you off to a decontamination shower, but you cant do that to someones psyche - unless youre in a program and under the age of majority.
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On 2006-04-23 20:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-04-23 20:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
and she is admittedly part of a group whose sole purpose is to shut down WWASPS.
Excuse me? Where did you get that information?
In the other book, this mom and her daughter relate the true story of their time at two of them
Oh, I see. It's OK to take personal stories at face value as long as it supports your position? What about all the personal stories here and on the numerous other websites that allow free, uncensored opinions?
Have you read Maia's book? More importantly, did you read the footnotes and see the amount of research that went into it? Hell, even her detractors say the book is 'meticulously researched'. Oh, wait......that's right. You guys prefer 'surveys' over actual clinical research and studies. I forgot, silly me. :roll: "
Footnotes can look impressive, but I went to the trouble of tracking down every one. They were either invalid, outdated, or simply false. The fact is, no matter how impressive the little numbers appear, if the source sucks, it sucks.
It's not accepted practice in scholarly circles to cite as fact editorial pieces and senasationalist daily press stories. It's actually considered a tacky way to try and look impressive.
If you really can't figure out Szalavitz's bias on your own, go read the reams of other things she's written, and check out her bio.
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On 2006-04-24 07:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So far, there has not been a single negative review about this book published on Amazon.
Most likely because those who have a different opinion about the WWASPS programs wouldn't waste their money on this book.
:eek: "
Have you read it?
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On 2006-04-24 14:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-04-23 20:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
Footnotes can look impressive, but I went to the trouble of tracking down every one. They were either invalid, outdated, or simply false. The fact is, no matter how impressive the little numbers appear, if the source sucks, it sucks.
Please be specific as to which sources "sucked".
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On 2006-04-24 14:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
Footnotes can look impressive, but I went to the trouble of tracking down every one. They were either invalid, outdated, or simply false. The fact is, no matter how impressive the little numbers appear, if the source sucks, it sucks.
Please be specific as to which sources "sucked".
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Hello? The mom sent her kid to the Czech Republic to a school that was run by some people with a dubious record.
After the school is "oddly" accused of abuse (gotta love that term used in the book's review) she sends the kid to another program in a remote area, this time Montana, also accused of abuse and where some other mother's daughter hung herself and another's was made to spend many months in the Hobbit.
Nope, I wouldn't spend 2 cents on this book. It's a sugarcoated Mother/Daughter conflict that emphasizes how stupid some parents are -- which I already know.
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The unflinching true account of a teenage girl's descent into society's underbelly -- and her mother's desperate and ultimately successful attempts to bring her back.
How does an honor student at one of Los Angeles's finest prep schools -- a bright, beautiful girl from a loving home -- trade school uniforms and afternoons at the beach for shooting up in the back of a van in rural Indiana? How does her devoted mother emerge from the shock of finding that her daughter has not only disappeared but had been living a secret life for more than a year?
Mother and daughter tell their parallel stories in mesmerizing first-person accounts. Claire Fontaine's story is a parent's worst nightmare, a cautionary tale chronicling her daughter Mia's drug-fueled manipulation of everyone around her as she sought refuge in the seedy underworld of criminals and heroin addicts, the painful childhood secrets that led up to it, and the healing that followed. Her search for Mia was brutal for both mother and daughter, a dizzying series of dead ends, incredible coincidences and, at times, miracles. Ultimately, Mia was forced into harsh-but-loving boot camp schools on two continents while Claire entered a painful but life-changing program of her own. Mia's story includes the jarring culture shock of the extreme and controversial behavior modification school she was in for nearly two years, which helped her overcome depression and self-hatred to emerge a powerful young woman with self-esteem and courage.
An unforgettable story of love and transformation, Come Back is a heart-wrenching and humorous portrayal of the primal bond between mother and daughter that will resonate with women everywhere.
ISBN13: 9780060792169; ISBN: 0060792167; Imprint: ReganBooks; On Sale: 04/04/2006; Format: Hardcover; Trimsize: 6 x 9; Pages: 320; $24.95
Regan Books is a division of Harper Collins. Same people that published the Amber Frey story, later made into a movie.
Uh-Oh ... do I see a Lifetime movie in WWASPS future? Another Augusta, Gone kinda made for tv movie?
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"Mia gets involved in a dangerous drug and Wicca scene, stunning her successful, controlling mother, Claire, and stepfather, Paul. But the signs were in place earlier..."
Yeah, those dangerous earth worshiping peacful Wiccans! What is it with some people? My parents sent me to CCM because of "drug abuse" (smoking pot) and being "satanic" (practicing wicca). People are so stupid.
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How much money did SCL pay this mother and daughter to speak positively about their program?? As much as they paid the legislature?
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What is ironic is the WWASPIES dismiss the abuse 'allegations' because they say until the abuse is proved (as if some kid can sneak a digital camera in his ass or something to document the abuse) that all the lawsuits, thousands of kids speaking out should all be ignored.
Good point that i'd like to expand on: Try this; do a search for '[insert your favorite wwasp facility here] + torture', then pick a facility that you know to be ethical and do the same. The number of results tell a story all by it self. You don't see very many kids talking about torture and beatings or news articles like "xxx wwasp facility under investigation for abuse/fraud/death/suicide/etc." or video clips of kids getting BEAT TO DEATH like Martin Lee Anderson and kids being punched 28 times in the head while laying on the floor motionless, because the fucking guard needed to "defend" himself!!!!!!!!!!!
WWASPIES - where's the proof that your prison camps actually work? You've been open long enough, show us the data already!!
Yeah, i wouldn't mind seeing that either because the typical wwasp promo posts just doesn't quite do it for me.
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i did read this book. It was not poorly written, but what i took from it was that the mother was in fact the insane one and the daughter needed to believe in the programme because what she wanted was a loving relationship with her parent. What kid does not want that?
There was a lot of emphasis on the fact that mum needed to "let go" of her guilt and "forgive mia" for what she had put her through. But I note that mum did not get sent off to the school of horrors for exposing her 4 year old to an addict & a molester. The man admitted he liked little girls yet mum blithely stayed with him for a while.
I also read an interview with Mia and some of the things that she described in a pretty blaze fashion seemed to me odd and not something that any respectable school or facility designed for young people would indulge in. one was the relationship with the cousellor. Most places would not encourage a male teacher or youth worker of any kind to initiate "hugs" with a child he was alone in a room with because they are quite careful about the fact that it could be miscontrued by the child or genuinely be a way to initiate a physical relationship. I would imagine that this would be particularly an issue to be sensitive of when dealing with a girl who had a history of sexual abuse & had father figure issues. But then again it is a place which tells parents not to believe children because they lie!
The other thing that she openly mentioned was that it did take her a while to adjust to life outside. Its funny but you don't often here kids who went to a garden variety prep school say "Yeah when i graduated from highschool it took me a while to adjust to the world". Perhaps it is because their environment was a school and not some kind of weird jail.
To the people believe the schools who claim kids manipulate, I have this question. What if your kid was a pathological liar but the school was run by perverts & bullies also? Would the fact that they were telling you this right from the start not ring alarm bells? would you not feel that you ultimately know your kid better than the school so could only get to the bottom of things but chatting extensively unsensored with the kid yourself before reaching any conclusions? Would you not do this regardless of whether they had "earned" the privelige? What if another ex programme kid from the same place with a history of being pretty upfront (perhaps they were in for "defiance" not deceit) posted here & told matching stories to your own child? Would you then begin to doubt the programme. What if your kid described in a positive way their middle aged male counsellor initiating physical contact with them. Would you not feel uneasy even if it was just a hug?
having worked in a mainstream American summer camp which just had average kids they were adamant about not initiating physical contact (kids could initiate a hug) or being privately 1 on 1 alone with kids without doors etc being open. I would imagine that if it involved "troubled" kids this rule would be quite doubly stringent.
I have also coached kids sporting teams here in Australia. Similar policies are adopted when kids go away with adults. i dont know o any reputable coach or professional adult who would encourage parents to "trust" them without question.
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Even the "struggling parents" over on Lon Woodbury's little ole website STRUGGLING TEENS said:
DON'T READ THIS BOOK!!!!!!!!!
Now, that's really saying this is a not-to-be-read-piece-of-garbage.
Those people just luv these true tales of locking the kids up for their own good, and how-much-the-parent-suffers.
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That is one of the craziest things about Lon's forums. The parents all think THEY are the victim. Did their kid suddenly appear from nowhere, step into their perfect lives and ruin it for them? Doubtful. More likely, they were bad parents making mistakes along the way with compounded so much they couldn't handle the result of 14 years of mishandling. So, in their infinite wisdom, they make another huge mistake (what would we expect?) and go to programs to try and 'fix' their kid. Then they spend a fortune, blaming the kid for the monetary loss (or using the kids college fund provided by other family members), and sit at home, alleviated of any responsibility other than financial, feeling sorry for themselves. Some, like Karen, take up drinking to fill their idle time. These people should of never had kids. With the resources at their disposal, they still seek out one of the worst options available for a kid out there. Proxy child abuse is just as bad as regular child abuse. They can afford to pay someone else to do their dirty work, but they are no different than the joe-six-pack who comes home at night to beat his kids, forcing them to live in fear and under his tight rule. Same thing with programs, apples and oranges.
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Pls Help - why don't you consider copy and pasting your review on Amazon?
You just go the the page listing the book and there is a button to click to 'review this book' - easy. You'll have to take a moment to register a user name if you don't already have one - but thats no big deal.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006079 ... e&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060792167/ref=pd_po_rvi_1/002-0654773-5680066?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155)
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or just pay someone else to
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Funny, and wasn't that school in the Czech Republic shut down for abuse and neglect allegations?
Yeah, it was.
Do your research before you try advertising your book.
Sounds like garbage to me... Wouldn't surprise me if they were paid to write it.
Brainwash works. :roll:
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i put a review on Amazon
This book was a walking advertisment for human rights abuse.There have been many credible allegations of brainwashing, physical abuse and denial of a proper education from children who attended programmes run by WWASPS, the organisation which ran Morava academy and Spring Creek lodge. The therapudic methods described in this book have been discredited by mainstream psychiatry. Abuse is why Morava was "oddly closed down". Other WWASP schools to "oddly close down" in other countries have included Dundee ranch, High impact and Casa by the Sea. There are readily available photographs of children being kept in dog cages at one of these offshore schools. Could this be what prompted authorities to step in? who knows?
it is wonderful to see that Mia went on to be a college graduate and a published writer. Many of her peers have not been so lucky. This is because their "progressive" education did not involve being taught anything. Students have been just given books & then asked to answer multiple choice questions.Parents who sent their kids to WWASPS Ivy ridge, for example had to get refunded a portion of the fees as their kids diplomas were useless. Read this book with a critical eye. Mia was lucky to come out alive.
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You know the jerks yankd my review - also the pictures I posted. Someone else needs to post that Hobit picture again.
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(http://http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/SpringCreekDropout/hobbit_with_kid.jpg)
now come on, who puts there kid at a place where this is a punishment? Aparently common sense is hard to come by these days.
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So far the review is still up. In noticed somebody else has also now posted a negative review. Hope they stay up.
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Wouldn't you think Amazon would give some kind of explanation when they yank a review and photos? I didn't get any. The review was critical - but not at all abusive. I'm kind of angry about it being yanked. Been fumin' for days now.
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You would think that yes. Perhaps it is a legal issue for them?
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Proudsclgrad managed to get my review yeaked too. That said he appears to have a bee in his bonnet about me lately.
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How long did it take between posting the review & them yanking it?
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About 48 hours.
I wonder if Maia could habve all the faithful legions reviews of her book yanked? I guess I will write another, and see what happens.
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Yeah that is not surprising. WHen dealing with brainwashed fundamentalists (islamics, program freaks, etc) they go to any length to cover up the truth. They know the truth shows they are full of shit, and cannot even handle hearing another point of view. Hell, theyd rather kill us all than hear our view (yes program people have posted this before). Nazis, islamic fundamentalists, program freaks, they all have something in common really, and it's obvious to see. They have that crazed brainwashed look in their eyes, like they relinquished control of their mind to their cult. Sad and pathetic, proudsclgrad, LOL! That's that loser who trolls here. Go to myspace pro-wwasp group, it has about 15 losers in it, and take your pic, it's one of them. Or its probably the authors daughter or some shit. I used to think it was complicated, but it really comes down to the fact these people are just crazy and want to destroy everyone elses life too.
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To anyone who is even thinking of reading this book, I'll save you the money with this jacket summary:
Mom was a total psycho, daughter was sexually abused and in a lot of pain. Mom gave daughter to the Gestapo and went to a much gentler therapeutic thing herself. After lots of money and even more abuse, daughter seems to have come out ok IN SPITE of the program. Hard to tell where Mom's head is really at today, but she's probably still a psycho, just a more educated psycho.
The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.
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To anyone who is even thinking of reading this book, I'll save you the money with this jacket summary:
Mom was a total psycho, daughter was sexually abused and in a lot of pain. Mom gave daughter to the Gestapo and went to a much gentler therapeutic thing herself. After lots of money and even more abuse, daughter seems to have come out ok IN SPITE of the program. Hard to tell where Mom's head is really at today, but she's probably still a psycho, just a more educated psycho.
The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.
What a wonderful lifetime movie.
Too bad people will use this to try to rationalize programming.
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To anyone who is even thinking of reading this book, I'll save you the money with this jacket summary:
Mom was a total psycho, daughter was sexually abused and in a lot of pain. Mom gave daughter to the Gestapo and went to a much gentler therapeutic thing herself. After lots of money and even more abuse, daughter seems to have come out ok IN SPITE of the program. Hard to tell where Mom's head is really at today, but she's probably still a psycho, just a more educated psycho.
The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.
What a wonderful lifetime movie.
Too bad people will use this to try to rationalize programming.
So let me get this straight (no pun intended, I assure you):
Come out fucked up, it's the program's fault (even if you were there for only a week or two). Come out functioning in any acceptable way, and it's in spite of the program. Come out with flying colors and it's truly a fluke. Give the program credit for anything and you're obviously brain washed. Good thing logic isn't a prerequisite for your version of reality.
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To anyone who is even thinking of reading this book, I'll save you the money with this jacket summary:
Mom was a total psycho, daughter was sexually abused and in a lot of pain. Mom gave daughter to the Gestapo and went to a much gentler therapeutic thing herself. After lots of money and even more abuse, daughter seems to have come out ok IN SPITE of the program. Hard to tell where Mom's head is really at today, but she's probably still a psycho, just a more educated psycho.
The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.
What a wonderful lifetime movie.
Too bad people will use this to try to rationalize programming.
So let me get this straight (no pun intended, I assure you):
Come out fucked up, it's the program's fault (even if you were there for only a week or two). Come out functioning in any acceptable way, and it's in spite of the program. Come out with flying colors and it's truly a fluke. Give the program credit for anything and you're obviously brain washed. Good thing logic isn't a prerequisite for your version of reality.
First of all who is ever sent to these programs for just a week or two? Second of all let's say they were......you tell me how you would feel if you were kidnapped in the middle of the night not knowing where you were going only to get there to face a great deal of shock of where you ended up.
I have said it before, and I will say it again. When it comes to treatment it's not a one size fits all kind of deal. There is not enough good staff, there is not enough trained staff, there is not enough staff period. Some kids make it out okay, but a lot don't. I don't agree with how these programs are set up.
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To anyone who is even thinking of reading this book, I'll save you the money with this jacket summary:
Mom was a total psycho, daughter was sexually abused and in a lot of pain. Mom gave daughter to the Gestapo and went to a much gentler therapeutic thing herself. After lots of money and even more abuse, daughter seems to have come out ok IN SPITE of the program. Hard to tell where Mom's head is really at today, but she's probably still a psycho, just a more educated psycho.
The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.
What a wonderful lifetime movie.
Too bad people will use this to try to rationalize programming.
So let me get this straight (no pun intended, I assure you):
Come out fucked up, it's the program's fault (even if you were there for only a week or two). Come out functioning in any acceptable way, and it's in spite of the program. Come out with flying colors and it's truly a fluke. Give the program credit for anything and you're obviously brain washed. Good thing logic isn't a prerequisite for your version of reality.
Have you been inside a WWASP seminar watching a 'rape re-enactment'? I have, although I wish I hadn't seen it. I lost my hope in humanity that day. They held down a girl crying, screaming and kicking while the facilitator stood over her screaming 'WHY DID YOU LET YOURSELF GET RAPED!?".
Now, in your reality, wherever that might be, this is considered therapeutic. For those of us who have lived it, watched friends descend into chaos and suicide after leaving after these types of events, know what really goes on.
You are a sick individual. You know how I know that? Because even though I hate you and everyone who supports these programs, I would NEVER do the things you did to me when I was locked away at WWASPS. We are better than you people.
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To anyone who is even thinking of reading this book, I'll save you the money with this jacket summary:
Mom was a total psycho, daughter was sexually abused and in a lot of pain. Mom gave daughter to the Gestapo and went to a much gentler therapeutic thing herself. After lots of money and even more abuse, daughter seems to have come out ok IN SPITE of the program. Hard to tell where Mom's head is really at today, but she's probably still a psycho, just a more educated psycho.
The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.
What a wonderful lifetime movie.
Too bad people will use this to try to rationalize programming.
So let me get this straight (no pun intended, I assure you):
Come out fucked up, it's the program's fault (even if you were there for only a week or two). Come out functioning in any acceptable way, and it's in spite of the program. Come out with flying colors and it's truly a fluke. Give the program credit for anything and you're obviously brain washed. Good thing logic isn't a prerequisite for your version of reality.
Have you been inside a WWASP seminar watching a 'rape re-enactment'? I have, although I wish I hadn't seen it. I lost my hope in humanity that day. They held down a girl crying, screaming and kicking while the facilitator stood over her screaming 'WHY DID YOU LET YOURSELF GET RAPED!?".
Now, in your reality, wherever that might be, this is considered therapeutic. For those of us who have lived it, watched friends descend into chaos and suicide after leaving after these types of events, know what really goes on.
You are a sick individual. You know how I know that? Because even though I hate you and everyone who supports these programs, I would NEVER do the things you did to me when I was locked away at WWASPS. We are better than you people.
That does raise a few points.
Why does wwasps not ever let on what goes in until after you're either under their control (the kid) or too 'committed' to think lightly of pulling out (the parent)? Why do the use manipulative LGATs and claim them to be therapy?
Why do they when pressed say they dont do therapy, they do "Behavior Modification" and "emotional growth" and spew "Accountability" everywhere, but cant define any of those terms except accountability as the child being basically a slave?
Why all the secrecy, bullshit, and absolutely no schooling or therapy, but plenty of abuse, culty nonsense, and basically just weird, psycho-bullshit that got debunked decades ago, WWASPS?
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So let me get this straight (no pun intended, I assure you):
Come out fucked up, it's the program's fault (even if you were there for only a week or two). Come out functioning in any acceptable way, and it's in spite of the program. Come out with flying colors and it's truly a fluke. Give the program credit for anything and you're obviously brain washed. Good thing logic isn't a prerequisite for your version of reality.
I suspect you are one of those charming people who believes anything that doesn't kill us makes us stronger. I concede that in some twisted scheme of logic (your version of reality?) the act of forcing someone to lie face down on the floor for several days, or spending months in solitary confinement might have "therapeutic value."
For you and others who are intrigued by this kind of therapy, I highly recommend "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl. He was a WWII concentration camp survivor who not only found existential meaning and a reason to live, but he even founded a new form of psychotherapy as a result of his experiences at the hands of his Nazi tormenters. Despite his emergence from that horror with a relatively healthy mind and spirit, he did not actually recommended the concentration camp experience as a means of achieving emotional or spiritual growth. Seeing his wife and parents murdered might've put a damper on the "therapeutic" aspects of the experience for him.
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You are a sick individual. You know how I know that? Because even though I hate you and everyone who supports these programs, I would NEVER do the things you did to me when I was locked away at WWASPS. We are better than you people.[/quote]
Unfortunately, I'm not. I came out 'with flying colors' by managing to stay as far under the radar as possible-knowing my parents weren't going to take me home for any reason. I'm the one who then used them to get a college education, and now have a family and a pretty good job-and no contact with my parents. But I still have some pretty bad memories of that place-and have spent the last years getting myself in rock-hard shape and a black belt from a full-contact dojo. NOTHING would give me greater pleasure than to be locked in a room with either of the LItchfields, Finlayson. Darrington, Goulding, either Pullen, either Kay, etc. (or even any two of them!) for about 15 minutes. Or any of about a hundred other modern incarnations of SS camp guards. For the legal record, this is NOT a threat, and I'm not going to go stalking them, or anywhere near any of their private concentration camps. But if I should ever happen to see-in the middle of the night, two men trying to kidnap a struggling, handcuffed teenager, well-as a good citizen I'd just have to get involved, wouldn't I? How would I know that it was parentally approved and arranged for? I wouldn't-and it may not be. How many kids have been snatched up and raped/murdered lately? I'd just be trying to stop such a tragedy. And I'd love to see how the papers handled the parents in that case too-wouldn't you?
Survivor of SCL
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I sure wish you guys would register. I hate trying to guess who is actually talking and has already posted.
Register a username, please!!!
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It's 001010. Not that hard. :wink:
*passes*
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To anyone who is even thinking of reading this book, I'll save you the money with this jacket summary:
Mom was a total psycho, daughter was sexually abused and in a lot of pain. Mom gave daughter to the Gestapo and went to a much gentler therapeutic thing herself. After lots of money and even more abuse, daughter seems to have come out ok IN SPITE of the program. Hard to tell where Mom's head is really at today, but she's probably still a psycho, just a more educated psycho.
The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.
What a wonderful lifetime movie.
Too bad people will use this to try to rationalize programming.
So let me get this straight (no pun intended, I assure you):
Come out fucked up, it's the program's fault (even if you were there for only a week or two). Come out functioning in any acceptable way, and it's in spite of the program. Come out with flying colors and it's truly a fluke. Give the program credit for anything and you're obviously brain washed. Good thing logic isn't a prerequisite for your version of reality.
Okay, suppose I open a "Program" and my method to "cure" troubled teens is to lock put them in a barracks at night, and in a big, enclosed park during the day, and treat them well, other than locking them in and giving them a hit of LSD first thing in the morning every morning.
If they come out fucked up, yeah, it's probably the acid.
If they come out functioning in any acceptable way, and it's probably despite the acid.
If they come out doing just peachy keen great, and it's probably truly a fluke.
Give a hit of acid each morning credit for anything and you'd have to be brainwashed or stupid.
No violation of logic there. All I had to do to get that pattern of results was put together a hypothetical lousy, harmful "treatment."
You have the nerve to criticize other people's logic? You obviously couldn't reason your way out of a paper bag.
Julie
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Wow, sorry for the bad phrasing. Should have proofed it before I sent it.
Julie
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The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.[/quote]
Well, so far, at least. That book was written in a "post-coital" rosy glow. I would like to see how the girl is in about five years.
Once again the parent screws up her kid and its the kid who gets punished! :roll:
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The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.
Well, so far, at least. That book was written in a "post-coital" rosy glow. I would like to see how the girl is in about five years.
Once again the parent screws up her kid and its the kid who gets punished! :roll:[/quote]
Why bother checking? If she's doing fine, it's a fluke. If she's a mess, it's the program's fault. What happened, did you forget the party line?
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::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::troll:: ::bangin::
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Kids that come out of these places, are more often then not, more screwed up then when they went in there. That is because when they went in there maybe they were having some minor, or more serious problems depending on the child, and instead of their parents dealing with it themselves (I guess they can't be bothered?), they shipped them off to these programs. So, while at these places....the tactics of tough love whip them into a compliant state of mind. Great, and when they start behaiving themselves (not dealing with what caused these behaivors to start) then they are released back to the parents.
Great, except for the fact they are returned to their homes walking on eggshells, afraid to have an opinion or arguement with their parents for fear of being sent back to these awful places. So, now they deep down inside dislike their parents for what they did to them, and all the shit they went through at the hands of the staff in these programs. All the while trying to tell their parents, and their parents chalking it up to manipulation. Because that's what the program tells these parents to expect right? Don't believe your child they are just trying to manipulate you. Uh, wrong!!! They are more often then not telling you the honest to god truth. So now you have a child who doesn't trust their parents, and has abandoment issues to boot. Not to mention the trauma of being locked away in one of these places. Great job Mom and Dad! Do us all a favor and don't have anymore kids. We don't need anymore screwed up teenagers in this world because your lack of parenting. While your at it, get yourself into therapy. Your the one more often then not that needs it. Learn the tools of communication, and use them.
So Trollie.........do me a favor and shut that hole of yours. You don't know what your talking about.
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To anyone who is even thinking of reading this book, I'll save you the money with this jacket summary:
Mom was a total psycho, daughter was sexually abused and in a lot of pain. Mom gave daughter to the Gestapo and went to a much gentler therapeutic thing herself. After lots of money and even more abuse, daughter seems to have come out ok IN SPITE of the program. Hard to tell where Mom's head is really at today, but she's probably still a psycho, just a more educated psycho.
The only positive about the book is the appreciation you get for how strong the daughter is -- and how lucky to come out of it with her sanity.
What a wonderful lifetime movie.
Too bad people will use this to try to rationalize programming.
So let me get this straight (no pun intended, I assure you):
Come out fucked up, it's the program's fault (even if you were there for only a week or two). Come out functioning in any acceptable way, and it's in spite of the program. Come out with flying colors and it's truly a fluke. Give the program credit for anything and you're obviously brain washed. Good thing logic isn't a prerequisite for your version of reality.
Ok, I'll biteOMG you are so right! John McCain spent years in a POW camp being tortured. He came out of it not only functiioning but with "flying colors"! My god he was/is even a presidential candidate now. I guess we should give the program, er, POW camp credit! Your logic dictates that being in a POW camp and being tortured was a good thing! If you have $40,000 I will be happy to put you in my POW camp and you too can be a presidential candidate!
email me privately at biteme@eatshit.com ::bwahaha::
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Ok, I'll biteOMG you are so right! John McCain spent years in a POW camp being tortured. He came out of it not only functiioning but with "flying colors"! My god he was/is even a presidential candidate now. I guess we should give the program, er, POW camp credit! Your logic dictates that being in a POW camp and being tortured was a good thing! If you have $40,000 I will be happy to put you in my POW camp and you too can be a presidential candidate!
email me privately at biteme@eatshit.com ::bwahaha::
:rofl: :rofl:
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Ok, I'll biteOMG you are so right! John McCain spent years in a POW camp being tortured. He came out of it not only functiioning but with "flying colors"! My god he was/is even a presidential candidate now. I guess we should give the program, er, POW camp credit! Your logic dictates that being in a POW camp and being tortured was a good thing! If you have $40,000 I will be happy to put you in my POW camp and you too can be a presidential candidate!
email me privately at biteme@eatshit.com ::bwahaha::
:rofl: :rofl:
Let me point something else out-when McCain was running against GW Bush, and disagreeing with some of his positions, especially the war, Bush made the comment that his years in the camp had effected his mind and made him unable to think straight (another unintentianal pun). Even the president who appointed Sembler as an ambassador agrees that being in a camp effects your mind-can't get any clearer than that!
Victim of SCL
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What that troll forgets is that a person can be mistreated anywhere, even at a seemingly 'nice' place. I think the problem is empathy, the parents who are writing such ignorant (cruel) remarks have obviously never been in such a situation in their life. Had they been, they couldn't possibly make such statements and not throw up from their own revulsion of themselves. You will not see McCain down in Cuba torturing arabs, how could he, after what he has been through? It's all the high brow washington intellectuals, the ones who have never tasted battle nor torture who follow these sickening policies policies.
It reminds me of the ridiculous statements from congresscritter Duncan Hunter ( :roll: ) who brought a guantanamo meal to a press conference and boasted that the inmates who have never been charged are 'on vacation'. They called it club gitmo, and sold orange t-shirts online to make fun of the situation. This world has some truly sick people in it. Is it really any susprise the same group who torture third-worlders rounded up in massive sweeps would have a problem torturing 'troubled teens'. Not to me.